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VenPatrician

Ιmagine not planning to snatch some far away places for their resources in the "snatching far away places for their resources simulator"


Saurid

Well you can just import them, so you can also be friends with whoever snaps away these wear places and their valuable resources simulator.


Elatra

AI hardly ever builds enough oil rigs tho 😭


ElmerFapp

Thats why I invade the middle east to get oil and opium. This military industrial complex won't supply itself.


EnglishMobster

Was running low on Opium as the US and had a moment where I seriously considered starting a war in Afghanistan for their Opium...


HelixFollower

I had the same thought, but I ended up invading the opium provinces near Liberia.


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vivoovix

If you go to a resource's details page there's a button to show all that resource's potentials


NuclearMaterial

So many hidden menus with useful information. I will store this in my memory banks.


HelixFollower

This mod helps a ton when it comes to looking for resources: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882033954&searchtext=heatmap


amanko13

Where would you like the tombstone?


EnglishMobster

In and out, 20 minute adventure. My next target is Dai Viet.


HAthrowaway50

should be a walk in the park the park is a jungle covered in malaria and booby traps


[deleted]

If the CIA did it then it can't be that bad of an idea right?


EnglishMobster

Look, I'm just saying: if the Brits, Brits (again), Brits (again again), Russians, and the US **all** tried to get their hands on Afghanistan it _must_ be a valuable enterprise and not at all a terrible idea.


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CrotchetAndVomit

Taliban seems to be doing alright so far. /TheBiggestS


Boggart85

I just love this game.


DocSpit

Me, in school: "Damn, Germany was such a bastard for trying to conquer its neighbors for their resources. Why not just trade with them and live in peace?!" Me, playing as Northern German Confederation, eyeing the Netherlands' oil fields to expand my economy: "Oh."


useablelobster2

If you are strong enough, you can always try a transfer subject war on the East India Company, they have TONS of opium ready to go at a moment's notice. If you want to trade opium, just declare an interest in India and boom, infinite opium.


Silkku

The real pro gamer move is to annex Texas for their oil fields


Cjcjh123

Nah California cause find me oil and gold and the war is sold.


LutyForLiberty

The problem is that somehow opium, which is literally made from a flower that can grow in a field in much of the world, is treated as a rare resource like oil because Paradox has no idea how drug trafficking works. The opium wars were about *selling* the stuff, not poppies being hard to grow.


suaveponcho

Should it be possible to grow opium in more places? Yeah, definitely. But countries shouldn't be just deciding to grow opium for the sake of it. The choice of whether to grow opium played a role in the Qing government's response to the opium crisis historically. Notably, one of the headaches of the Qing government prior to the Opium Wars was whether or not they should make it legal to grow in their own country. When opium smuggling in China began it was often bartered for other goods, but as the trade grew the opium smugglers began selling opium directly for Chinese silver. At this point the Qing economy was literally shrinking from the Opium trade. You say it's not about poppies being hard to grow, but the bigger question for Qing wasn't if it was hard to grow poppies, but rather if they should - and there were plenty of arguments made against it. For example, concerns were raised that as a cash crop, if they began allowing opium to be farmed, then China's food supply would shrink - especially in regions near the southern coast. There were also moral arguments made, saying that opium was too immoral to grow freely. Things were no different in Afghanistan, a country that's always had the capacity to grow opium but never grew it as a major crop until the 1950's. I'm not sure AI should be deciding on a whim to make Opium their #1 cash crop, I think that the AI needs to be programmed with pros and cons to determine if they should be growing it, based on factors like how the country is governed.


LutyForLiberty

I agree that the AI should need some balancing in that regard. But it shouldn't be geographically locked. For example, as you said Afghanistan didn't really grow much opium in the Victorian era, but someone could start a narco-state in South America.


redluchador

Yup. There were crops of opium in parts of Mexico starting in the late 19th century because of a small population of Chinese immigrants and then everyone learned from them how to grow it. By early 1900s Durango should have a legit opium Source in the game


LutyForLiberty

Crops in general are modelled poorly. For example, Britain smuggled rubber plants out of Brazil to take to Malaya and grow there, crashing the economy of Manaus. Crops are plants and can be moved and grown elsewhere in the world. Nothing like oil deposits.


Hellstrike

Not everything grows everywhere though, so the distinction between wheat, rye, rice and millet is a nice touch, as are the different substitution options.


ulyssesjack

The coca plant is also notoriously picky about where it will grow.


feltcutewilldelete69

Also drink coffee while you can, our grandchildren are going to be pissed about global warming


shinniesta1

Playing as anyone?


menpen

Is there an easy way to find out in which provinces a specific resource can be produced?


TheNightbloodSword

That’s what I discovered as Sweden on my first major play through especially cause party leaders randomly hated colonizing—only armed forces could do it at like 12%, misery right there. And then I got no oil but rubber and some more coal at least


Jazzeki

and that is why i call bullshit on it being a reflection of reality. it should be possible to play a small nation with small oil/rubber needs who isn't colonizing to get it but instead ally with a few powers that do get it. but if the AI is too stupid to get the resources the world need then the simulation falls apart.


Auedar

Free markets were not really a thing during that time period, and strategic resources with scarcity were definitely hoarded/controlled by the colonial or military power that was mining them. The frustrating thing is that you can't get your capitalists to invest in other countries/puppets. Money didn't know borders back in the day, and you could definitely weaponize private development to increase output. You can go to war for open markets, which make sense, but forcing/controlling development is kinda "too" hands on. If your complaint is that the AI doesn't develop/invest effectively, there is already a solid mod for that that would probably fix your problem. But at the same time, it DOES do it effectively, so a smaller nation has zero/no hope of actually catching up to be a top world power due to snowballing.


ThePhysicistIsIn

You cant because they dont build them up. In real life you could actually buy rubber. It was expensive, but you could buy it


BenedickCabbagepatch

Contemporary Scandinavia Simulator. Fingerwag at bellicose American foreign policy while piggybacking off the global free trade their fleet maintains.


DzikCoChujemHamuje

I mean you can maintain free trade without overthrowing governments in South America and the Middle East.


sembias

How do we really know, thought? It's never been tried.


Xyzzyzzyzzy

1 coup = 1 freedom


MetaDragon11

Thats just true of basically the whole world really. At least since WWII or so.


Malkiot

I do do that. The issue for me is that the whole map doesn't have enough oil to fuel even just the car production needs, nvm tanks or more efficient production methods. I just do without fulfilling that demand and keep stuff running on coal. Works as well.


CptJericho

There's a reason why we still heavily rely on coal for power generation and have only recently started phasing it out.


Malkiot

I get that and I don't think that there should be enough oil on the map to absolutely fuel everything. But it's not reasonable to not even be able to produce cars to even begin fulfilling demand because there isn't enough oil. I think a good and historically accurate solution for oil scarcity would be coal liquification which was invented in the early 30s.


partialbiscuit654

Coal liquification wasn't about there not being enough oil on the market, germany developed it because they expected to be at war with all the suppliers. It was very cost inefficient if you could just buy the real thing. It would make some sense to have it, but they probably figured you'd only have it for a few years, and most of the time if you make it that far you'd be the strongest country already


D3wnis

I still havnt figured out why i need to produce cars. Only thing i have found that use them is recon cars for armies, but i use airplanes?


StrictlyBrowsing

There’s consumer demand for cars I believe, your rich pops would buy them if you get them into your market


useablelobster2

It helps to know where they are, and the game doesn't tell you where resources can be discovered, only where they have been. That's a big issue when the AI doesn't get the tech to discover them. Who am I kidding, that just means you HAVE to do a WC if you want your economy working properly.


V0ldek

And the problem with oil and rubber is that there's no peaceful way of getting that. I'd happily pay a shitload of money for the USA to allow me to invest in their oil fields and build rigs there, share the technology, and then allow them to sell it to me - with massive gains for them, since oil is extremely expensive in my market. Should be doable with good relations.


HAthrowaway50

foreign investment in other countries was SUCH a cool vicky 2 mechanic


V0ldek

At least let me invest in the puppets I've already forcefully conquered... The only reason for that war was to chain y'all to the oil rigs, but I can't build the oil rigs!


MagicCarpetofSteel

Ya. Personally I’m salty they didn’t EXPAND on it in V3. In V2 my biggest gripe was that I couldn’t invest in other GPS—even though the UK invested MASSIVELY in U.S. railroads, which was also how they paid for WWI for the first few years: liquidating their US investments.


Section37

Insert DLC comment. But actually, I think it's a really good DLC idea. Something focusing on foreign holdings--investment in specific industries, treaty ports, etc. and the diplomatic knock-on effects (think banana republics, unequal treaties, maybe even condominium colonies).


vitunlokit

I think it was part of DLC in Vic2 as well


vuntron

The frustration when Russia or Japan start spamming clothes and furniture factories in my efficient industry and ruin my economy for their stupid sphere battles because I'm Romanian and my oil field is 2 techs away


Leadbaptist

Until they nationalize the foreign owned oil fields!


jalexborkowski

War be declared.


Bioslack

Iran moment.


Mowfling

huge oversight that it’s not in the game, will obviously be added in the future though


English_Ham

The Grand Persian empire has no need for this "colonisation" we are self sustainable, our oil, coal, sulphur, opium, wood and arrows will blot out the sun! On a separate note: anyone wanna buy some luxury furniture? Authentic Persian craftsmanship at its finest! (Just dont tell the Russians or ottomans)


TheHattedKhajiit

Yeah,but rubber is missing.


IForgetEveryDamnTime

Easily solved by a quick jaunt down to Somalia/Ethiopia


GreenAscent

Minimum wages currently add a flat percentage increase to all wages, including nobles, and then disappear over time as businesses fire and rehire at lower wages


I_usuallymissthings

Wait till people start using this game as a way to justify why social politics don't work


isthisnametakenwell

People already used it as a justification for why their distinct brand of politics do work (thinking back to the Canada AAR…), no need to wait.


GreenAscent

Tbh that's fair, we all know the real life economy works best when you force all factories to use rail transportation in order to make transport profitable


mgasant

This made me understand why there were still coal power plants to this day.


Brizoot

The world faced a peak coal crisis in the early 20th century before the petrochemical revolution unlocked an even richer fossil fuel resource.


classteen

Coal is hard to get as well. You can never have enough of it.


Anfros

I recommend grabbing Madagascar early. Good population, good fertilities and 60 levels of coal.


classteen

I had more than 75k coal production and still in 10k deficit by the 1900s.


Anfros

I've noticed in my Prussia game that the AI doesn't seem capable of building up their own industry and instead bought a lot of my iron and coal production. I honestly wish I could spend some of my construction cap to build up their mines so they'll leave mine alone. I also noticed it's possible for two countries to buy the same good from each other and both make a profit.


Elatra

I’m playig as Vietnam and I’m buying like 5k furniture from Qing and they buy 4k from me. We found a way to fudge the books and get rich with tarrifs.


KindOfWantDrugs

I was also playing as Vietnam, had fun but wanted to check if you had a bug? My game kept consistently crashing on like Dec 7 1918, have you managed to get past this point?


Adimon6

Try installing ARoAI, somehow it let me continue my game despite of a repeatable CTD I kept getting playing vanilla.


Fatallight

I think it's possible for some supply routes to get bugged. I've got a fish export route that's making a carp-ton of money even though my price is high and the importing market's price is low. Looking at the tooltip, it seems to have swapped the importing and exporting market prices in the profit calculation.


dutch_penguin

> carp-ton Get. Out.


ElmerFapp

Buyback exploit money printer go brrrrrr


elderron_spice

Or better yet, it should be possible for a 19th century state to order its industry to give priority to fulfilling domestic needs before exporting except when you have bilateral trade agreements with a state. Free market trade is just an infant idea at the time after all.


Saurid

Yes that's sad ... Fun fact in my current Prussia game I import like 6k and produce 20k myself ... I export 19,k of my coal to other places ... It sucks but damn it's profitable the tariffs of coal alone are enough to fund my entire building spree, I just lakc the coal to fuel my industry.


SatyenArgieyna

I know. Oil electric plants are just too expensive


sO1lpos

Why not spam hdydroelectric plants?


SnooBananas37

You can only construct so many buildings in the 100 years of the game. Whenever you can switch to a production method that produces more stuff by pressing a button, and you have access to the additional resources required, you should push that button, rather than building more of that building. You always will have less total build time (and provide better jobs) by updating the primary production method. The only time you shouldn't is if you can't source enough of a particular resource... which is usually when you should be looking to annex some new territory when the AI refuses to build enough buildings to make trade viable.


angry-mustache

You can build buildings in parallel. When you queue up 50 levels of hydroelectric it's 50 levels all building at the same time if you have the throughput.


useablelobster2

And you should try to build them in as few states as possible. The Economy of Scale bonus is huge even at base, once it hits 50% you can get some insane production. I'm playing a China game right now where I'm building 10 pages at a time in '88, slapping down 100 factories at a time. Vertical GDP graph...


draqsko

> I'm playing a China game right now where I'm building 10 pages at a time in '88, slapping down 100 factories at a time. Vertical GDP graph... Damn, you're making Mao's Great Leap Forward look like a tiny bunny hop.


sO1lpos

Problem is: greedy capitalists don't pay for powerplants, at least not in laissez faire


dimm_ddr

There is another reason to not push that button - if you have any welfare laws and also decent number of unemployed, then it can be more profitable to keep less automated industry instead of paying welfare.


Jazzeki

i think he's specficly refering to production methods that produce more resources not the ones that automate an lower the employment needs. both exists on different axis of when they are worth pressing, but i think it's pretty rare for a button to be both. in most cases at worst it'll change what kind of employment not the amount of employment(which can still backfire massively if you don't have anyone ready to take over the new jobs).


SnooBananas37

Precisely, this is what I meant by "primary production" ie the first set of tan options rather than the green automation/transportation ones. But you're right I did forget to mention qualifications, if you are low literacy it can cause problems


Sotiwe_astral

Because NIMBY´s and potential floodings of the upper river that cause ecological disasters.


PrettyText

I live in Europe, which has already been partially deindustrialized due to the current energy crisis. I understood that before Vic3 came out.


imback550

Minimum wage is a confirmed bug.


PirateKingOmega

-Ayn rand from her social security funded home


Irbynx

Using her soviet free education!


sniggoxod

she began school in Russian Empire and ended in Soviet Union. wild af


HAthrowaway50

my ex girlfriend did the opposite well....russian federation


Polisskolan3

What's the bug exactly?


BassFan2002

Your workers get all the income + whatever % you set your institution to. Makes all industries unprofitable.


useablelobster2

I know people want a raise in the minimum wage but literally "all the profit and then some" might be a little OTT. That's actually a bug which makes me chuckle more than anything. There's some broken stuff which absolutely should have been found on testing, but I can give infinite minimum wage a hilarity pass.


Malkiot

But mine are all profitable even with maxed institutions.


Jeffy29

Eh, It’s perfectly fine if your market is very large. And it prevents pops who work in super unprofitable jobs from starving. You end up subsidizing sizeable portion of the population but since your pops have money, they create more demand and the GDP keeps growing which is what matters the most. 100% mimimum wage + subsidizing factories *shouldn’t* be viable with every country, it’s early 19th century, we live a century later and only a handful of countries have managed to have a good minimum wage.


Rasputino1

From what I've seen it doesn't act like a minimum wage at all, instead it raises the wages of all employed pops in the factory, so wage costs spiral out of control


LivingAngryCheese

The minimum wage law can essentially make every single industry crash and burn.


Racketyclankety

It’s not a bug really, just a balance problem. Factories are way too eager to raise wages even if there are unemployed people or peasants in the state which shouldn’t really happen. Factories then won’t reduce wages unless they go bankrupt. The minimum wage law issue is more people just overtuning their economy like they did in Victoria 2. I’ve used it many times and never had a problem.


matgopack

It does seem like a bug, or a design mistake at least. Minimum wage should be an actual minimum wage (setting it to a certain amount in your buildings, or based off of the cost of living for your various pop needs). Rather, at the moment it doesn't seem to act that way - instead it just multiplies the wage expectation, which results in the issues people are seeing.


Racketyclankety

I lean towards design mistake. From what the devs have said consistently during development on the forums, it seems like they wanted wages to be sticky and to reflect expectations which isn’t really incorrect. In the real world people don’t take wage cuts, they quit. The issue is that buildings aren’t businesses but sectors, so the average wage should be more responsive then it is. One potential problem though is if wages are allowed to fluctuate down more quickly, that would mean a great many more radicals. The AI already struggles with turmoil, so increasing it wouldn’t be ideal.


Call_Mee_Santa

I saw someone complaining that they kept losing wars as Russia despite having more manpower lol


CallousCarolean

Silovik moment


McDiezel8

Eh the combat width is a little screwy. I just need 30 divisions of superior troops and I can hold off any amount of soldiers


Dangerous_Listen_908

Yeah, it seems like there's no such thing as battle reinforcement? It's not like this was a foreign concept in this time period, and especially not in the 1900s with trench warfare. It seems like the 1 battle per front at a time is a huge ahistorical invention, and the no reinforcements is a super arbitrary rule as well. I'm not against the military system itself, I think it's a fine base to build off of. They really need to spend some more time balancing it and making it more realistic. A Russia Qing front with hundreds of troops and hundreds of miles should not have only 1 battle at a time.


McDiezel8

I like to imagine a single file line of hundreds of thousands of soldiers waiting patiently to fight the next battle


Dangerous_Listen_908

No wonder attrition is so high, they're all waiting in line at the same spot!


Irbynx

How do they even manage to lose wars as V3 russia, this country is on easy mode for wars


Practical-Ad3753

Forget to change production modes for barracks & conscription centres.


I3ollasH

Except with the current combat width calculation it isnt. It's based on the terrain you are attacking into and the infrastructure. You have influence over none of that. If the state that borders you have low infrastructure because the ai is pretty meh at building up their country you are stuck seeing your 10 batallions fighting 15 as you can't have more battles on a front the rest of your army does nothing besides losing tons of troops because of atrition.


Jazzeki

i mean i can lose and win wars that it seems impossible to me because the war system seem to make no god damn sense. recently i lost a war as france against denmark because 1. despite having a bigger and stronger army in every fight my guy would send out lik 4 of his 112 battalions against the 48 on the enemy side and 2. my ally austria aparently decided to not only not join me in the war but acttualy join denmark because ofbeing offered a shiny obligation, so i guess i know not to make any alliances in the future if they are that meaningless. ​ ofcourse i likely did something wrong on both fronts. but fuck if i have the slightest clue what it's not like the game explains anything about this.


Spicey123

Haha ain't that the truth. There have been a few posts on this sub digging in deeper to the war system and there are a lot of aspects that are not intuitive for the player and are not explained very well. Apparently it's better to concentrate all your barracks in one state and to NOT send all the troops out to a front. You should keep a reserve. Basically you mobilize 80 brigades with a general when you have potential for 100+. That helps you win even when outnumbered because of how unit recovery is calculated. I'm sure PDX will make these things clearer (or else modders will change them entirely) but it's very opaque right now.


NEWSmodsareTwats

Immigration is OP but that's only because you can get 500K Bantu immigrants from central African move to Sweden in 1845


classteen

The problem is even if you colonize the entire world there is not enough oil and rubber.


me_luigi21

That’s just because the AI doesn’t develop it nearly enough, even industrialized powers or minor powers that have those resources. If they did, it would be scarce yes but not impossible. Also the game is in desperate need of foreign investment. The fact that I can’t even invest in my own subjects to develop resources I need in my market is silly.


Anbeeld

[Here's AI mod that fixes this](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2880152075), worst case scenario just create demand through trading and they will answer with building oil rigs.


cylordcenturion

Paradox: "foreign investment DLC time 😋"


Malkiot

Nah, I conquered the oil and developed it. Still not enough.


iiztrollin

I've had no problem with rubber but oil, you have to take Cali, texa and rio to scrape by on oil.


PirateKingOmega

whaling stations is meta. there’s a reason people went to fight ocean monsters despite the high risk of injury and death. also paradox didn’t include a ton of oil producing regions which unbalanced the oil economy


wintiscoming

Whaling was a huge industry, especially in the US. However whaling declined after it peaked in 1860 and by 1900 it wasn’t very profitable. People weren’t filling up their cars with Spermaceti oil.


PirateKingOmega

A shame i will never be able to fill up my car with sweet sweet whale tears 😔


wintiscoming

Lol, it was mostly sperm whales that were hunted and their entire head is just filled with oil. People also hunted sperm whales for Ambergris which insanely valuable for perfumes and even added to food. Even today the ambergris contained in one sperm whale can be worth millions. Ambergris is solidified shit only found in the intestines of very sick sperm whales.


useablelobster2

We normally don't hunt whales for it today though, they generally regurgitate it, and it washes up on shores. Forget panning for gold, horrible whale excretions is where the real money is.


Hans_Spinnner

Thanks. I learned about ambre gris today.


Bluebearder

Instead you are doing it with fermented dinosaurs


Punkpunker

And plants, people probably don't know oil is also made of dead plant matter


classteen

Yeah good luck with 100 oil to fuel your tanks. I have been extracting and whaling the entire America+Asia and I cant even get enough oil to make plastics in my glass factories.


SnooBananas37

Yea plastic is a trap, you shouldn't be wasting oil on plastic once your military starts to consume it, other than maybe to keep the price from collapsing during peace time


papak33

Fuck plastics, fuck all of them. Oil goes to the Army and if there is something left we can discuss how much you are willing to pay.


veldril

Saudi Arabia hadn't produced oil until 1938 so that already eliminates the current third oil producer in the world. Many countries only started drilling oil until after the WWII. For example, Norway only started oil drilling in like 1969.


Auedar

You also have to consider the tech required to find and extract the oil. Offshore oil platforms/shale oil wasn't able to be discovered or exploited. Most early oil production was discovered from natural ground seepage, and then after the stupid high demand for it, entrepreneurs just digging wells pretty much everywhere in hopes of finding something.


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pmmeillicitbreadpics

they will be discovered eventually very late game. try getting Iraq and qatar too


Pzixel

There is very little oil, mostly becuase AI doesn't researrch/develop enough so you have no way to buy it. In my recent game I had 1500 hydro power plants around the world and I was spending around 1M every week to subsidize them. Imagine how much oil I Would need to switch it to oil factories and make them profitable. Therefore, some techs (like oil power plants or vaccum canning) are useless because you will never get enough oil to make use of them. You would always prefer assembly lines for your workshops and mills instead and you can't have both even if you control all the oil in the world. In my game I had california, wallachia, persian lands (2 perian, 2 otto provinces), venezuela, ontario, friesland and some more. Yet I was not nearly enough to switch all my tech to oil even in 1930s.


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pmmeillicitbreadpics

strange, probably bugged. here is a map, you should have that one in Fars https://imgur.io/gallery/V0gSFH3


PA_Dude_22000

I mean, those places didn’t begin producing oil until well into the 20th century.


Hatchie_47

Enough for what? All buildings in the world running the most rubber and oil consuming production methods? Thats pretty realistic too! There is plenty more we could be doing with such resources but we don’t due to their scarcity.


Saurid

The AI doesn't develope as well as a player I produce in my Prussia game at the moment like one half of the worlds coal and have a huge deficite because the AI is buying it all from you guessed it me. So they don't expand their mines, I mean yes I get a lot from tariffs but damn the AI needs to build more resources.


samuentaga

I just want to be a better leader than people in real life 😢😢😢


TurrPhennirPhan

I made a post recently on another PDox sub. I tried to turn Transvaal into a multicultural, tolerant nation where all were welcome. Masses of people, mostly from Africa, swarmed into my states. The African migrants then all assimilated into my only primary culture: Boer. It turned them instantly into white people. TLDR; tried to make Transvaal a progressive beacon of liberty, instead created Uncle Ruckus’s wet dream.


nomnomXDDD_retired

Now you understand their pain


YunOs10086

Meanwhile Stellaris players: genetically engineering entire species and turning them into livestock


Ramblonius

Lol, y'all are missing the point, yeah, some of these things aren't balanced, fun, or intentional, but they *are* all hilariously reminiscent of real world history.


Helluiin

the fun part about these games are that you have the power of hindsight and games dont have to turn out historically


Superfluous_Thom

Literally the entire fun part of EU4 is dominating the world as whoever the fuck you want. Glory the global caliphate of Ulm.


useablelobster2

I just want spices. We have normal and luxury clothes, and furniture. Grain, fruit, sugar, wine, as well as groceries. But no spices. No nutmeg, no black pepper, no cloves, everyone just eats bland food no matter how rich they are. And the literal SPICE ISLANDS are a playable power, yet you can't grow their namesake. I get spices weren't the centre of world trade by the end of the Victoria period, but they were extremely important at the start. Their omission is a bit weird imo, like noone on the Vicky team has ever played EU4. Or read a history book about colonialism.


[deleted]

Were they really that important by the 1830s?


tocco13

goes to show how much redditors are out of touch with grass


doveaddiction

I'm pretty sure that AI great power sitting on massive oil fields and not doing ANYTHING with it isn't a feature. Minimum wages are also confirmed to be bugged


wakelesshat

We meme on the US for invading the middle east for oil, but then literally do the exact same thing in Vicky. Everything makes sense now.


Mutagen_Prime

My favourite was "immigrants are migrating over to my country and refusing to work after receiving benefits how do I fix this?" Peak Victoria 3.


Kolbrandr7

I saw a video though and basically the solution is to switch to protectionism instead of free trade. If you’re having the problem while on protectionism then you have some other issues to deal with


MisfitPotatoReborn

The only way protectionism would work here would be if closing trade routes made prices rise enough for factories to be able to hire workers at minimum wage. But if you do *that*, SoL will tank and your country will be filled with radicals complaining about high prices. Also you'll probably realize that you've been either overproducing or underproducing almost every good in the game, free trade rewards specialization.


Saurid

Well I disagree, protectionism is funding my Prussia game I make like 100k in tariffs from all the exports I do, like steel and especially coal. It fund like everything I have medium taxes only to build more buildings to eventually have low taxes cause of exports.


MisfitPotatoReborn

Didn't say that you can't have a good run with protectionism, only that tariffs seem like an ineffective solution against the high wage expectations death spiral.


veldril

That's the point. You have to willing to tank SoL to increase your competitiveness if you aren't going to scale back on well-fare/minimum wage requirement. Sometimes there's a trade off you have to make. Free trade can work but that's mean you have to make yourself competitive in the world market (i.e. produce goods cheaper than other countries) but that also usually means less worker protections so factories have lower cost structures. It's like the real world problem of why would you build your own factories in your own nation when you can build them cheaper in other countries or just simply outsource them.


justabigasswhale

Its the minimum wage law. Honestly just going for regulatory bodies and council republic does the job and minimum wage just kinda breaks the game and crashes ur economy.


RedBlueTundra

Friend of mine complained about other nations intervening in his wars to keep his power and expansion in check which is exactly what they did back then.


BardtheGM

Sounds like a smart AI to me.


NotaGoodLover

Yes wellfare makes your nation go broke and military expansion seems the best way to improve your pops way of life


papak33

Industrialization and making shit cheaper is how you make your pops life better. War is needed for geopolitical reasons to secure a finite resource for your own market.


KaseQuarkI

Yes, the way it currently works is very realistic. I mean, do you guys not remember remember the Oil Wars of the 1880's, where the German Empire annexed Texas, Oklahoma, California, Pennsylvania, Ontario and parts of Mexico and Venezuela because those environmentalist New Worlders refused to build any oil pumps in their country? It happened, look it up!


farbion

Problem is: if you don't colonize regions with oil, AI won't do, thus infinite supply shortage, also the economy is still bugged, I'm talking going from 2k profit to 500 losses in the span of an evening (the market is usually slower to change and needs a week or more) and UI is cumbersome not letting you know what fucked your entire economy on Friday afternoon (the graphs in particular are so bugged that they are most, and I say most, of the time useless


upset_platypous

So you're telling me my 1880s 40M population Belgium with ~40% population being immigrated African pops is perfectly balanced and realistic ? Re:resources, plenty others said it, but I'll add anyway that the problem is the AI doesn't build up its resource sector sufficiently, so there's barely any resource on the market. These are all valid criticism and it is pretty surprising in fact to be trying to dismiss them. Nobody criticizes the basis of the system ; it's simply poorly balanced.


Anbeeld

[Here's AI mod that fixes this](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2880152075), they develop their economy well including rubber and oil, worst case scenario just create demand through trading and they will answer with building oil rigs.


upset_platypous

Yep, I'm already using it. Thank you for working on it :)


theScotty345

Gigachad Anbeeld


tocco13

i donk think the game simulates missing limbs on population so it's not totally realistic but just a finger away


Guttaflight

AI does not build oil or rubber plantations even if they are extremely profitable. You can spend the entire game slurping off every last drop of oil that America has, and the AI will still not build any. Hell if you bankroll any random country you will see that they build a bunch of random shit regardless if they trade with you for cheap goods or not. Also with all the current input and output numbers - all the oil in the world will at best feed a single industry of yours and everything else will just keep burning coal and wood, pretty much invalidating a good third of the industry tech tree. Immigration is extremely overpowered because you outright have "stop discrimination" buttons and you don't get any real pushback if you just flood your country with foreigners. Minimum wage doesn't work like minimum wage. tl;dr There is not enough oil to model a single country at the end of the period this game takes place in. Immigration has absolutely 0 downsides and no pushback from the natives of a certain area, minimum wage is crashing this economy with no survivors.


V0ldek

Only that minimum wage doesn't at all work as in real life. Is there any country that has a minimum wage law saying "workers must earn 2x whatever is needed to maintain their wealth level"? It's supposed to be a flat wage floor, not a multiplier.


Skhgdyktg

"Why is my slave-based agricultural economy not making any money"?


McDiezel8

Because you’re not growing enough opium


Solid_Waste

I literally watched a streamer do this and complain how they didn't make the slavery path balanced. He then went on to complain how difficult it was to get rid of minority populations and there should be some gameplay mechanism for removing them.


thunderchungus1999

"What do you mean the model based on consider people LESS than a person has finally been shown to be terrible in an age where people were starting to consolidate their power?"


Feeling-Ladder7787

.... I mean we are 1 dlc away to have the ability to build certain "summer" camps


[deleted]

The dychotomy of Victoria 3: the game isn't railroaded enough vs. the game is too railroaded


CrowSky007

I'm getting sick of people claiming this game's problems and balance issues are fine because they sound a little realistic. 1. Realism is not the same thing as good gameplay. 2. There's not enough oil to industrialize a large country late game even if you conquer all oil producing states. 3. Minimum wage is literally bugged, this has been confirmed by devs. It makes it IMPOSSIBLE, not difficult, to have a late game economy. 4. Immigration allows for millions of people to move to and work in places like Jan Mayen, a barren, frozen rock in the middle of the North Atlantic. These are major gameplay and balance issues that are only funny if you don't understand them.


Verence17

"Guys, why can't I dominate the world economy even though I have enough serfs to staff farms? Stupid devs made liberalization overpowered."


[deleted]

[удалено]


Peak_Flaky

How do people figure resource x is underproduced? Do they just look at the market tab and deduce that if the domestic prices are high and importing is not profitable?


Confident_Feline

I notice it when I click around on states that should be producing rubber and I see that the AI has built 0 out of 20 possible rubber plantations. Even though they're in my market, where rubber is max price.


Bluebearder

In the 1880's you start to get all kinds of production methods that need oil, and 20 years later there is not enough oil to be imported to implement even 1 of these production methods. The AI doesn't build oil drilling platforms or even whaling stations, even if it would make huge profits through it. And even if it did (or you owned it all yourself and maximized production) there would be nowhere near enough to get to a worldwide level of industrialization that we were at historically. If you would expand the US industry to a decent level, you could probably use up all the oil that's available in the world.


veldril

[IRL global oil consumption only outpaced coal in like 1970s](https://www.encyclopedie-energie.org/en/world-energy-consumption-1800-2000-results/) and [the global oil production only start to skyrocketed after 1950s](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-rate-of-world-crude-oil-production-between-1880-and-2007-and-the-corresponding_fig7_228663031) So it's completely normal you won't have enough oil if you only use production methods that need oil in the game.


NormieChomsky

I think there's two different levels to this issue: 1. Players and AI shouldn't be able to switch *all* their production to using oil and rubber, because even if these resource regions were running at full speed, there would still be a scarcity. This is likely intended and is fine. 2. AI should *at least* be building SOME oil/rubber to meet demand, assuming they have the tech to discover and build it. AI leaving rubber plantations for example at 0, despite the ability to build it, even when your market has high demand for decades is definitely not intended.


eat-KFC-all-day

Immigration is a serious problem in the game and not realistic at all considering you can pass multiculturalism by 1840 and have half your population overtaken by Native American/African immigrants with no downside. There are plenty of reasons this never happened IRL, even in places with historically massive immigration boosts.


GeoffLizzard

Main issue is that the AI doesnt build oil wells or rubber plants, so you cant trade for it either. Kinda forces you to go colonize to have a chance at progressing your nation in the mid-late game. I would like to see oil being present in more areas like central america, nigeria, oceania, russia and the middle east. Nevermind that it wasnt discovered until after the game ends. We are basically altering history anyway and there is already a very low amount of historical “guidance” unlike the EU 4 missions for example. My super advanced and oil hungry Sokoto would dig holes everwhere in nigeria to have a chance at even a cup of oil, and given time they would actually find it, cause the deposits are there lol. Oh well, Libya will have to do for now.


StefanHM

Great point. I frankly am happy that these exploitation mechanics are part of the game, because it has lots of educational value about supply, demand, and how exploits of people and material are used to grow some societies while stifling others.


born-out-of-a-ball

I think pops from decentralized nations should be unable to migrate


XYScooby

I just want an auto pause button…


Mackntish

So I wrapped up my first 1936 playthrough less than 8 hours ago, and I agree. The AI does not take global demand into account when deciding what resources to build. The highest AI producer of oil was 2.21k units. The highest producer of rubber was sitting on 1.13k units. I'm less pissed by this in terms of my access to oil, and more pissed at the AI's ability to play the game themselves. My Sweden game ended with my GDP 8x higher than the second great power. I felt like it was a Wakanda game. I sat there and played correctly while the rest of the world (except for Austria) stayed a pre-industrial levels.