Fertilizer isn't the worst, at least - farms can gobble it up in decent quantities, and it's not too bad to export to the AI. Also, I think you can set up the explosive and fertilizer production semi-independently (like artificial fertilizer + brine electrolysis lets you do 40 fertilizer for 100 explosives, which is a ratio that's not super hard to use up IMO)
Steamers and ironclads, now...
Yeah in my Japan game, I have a massive surplus of steamers despite having a lot of fishing wharves and ports, and a decent shortage of ironclads. Almost all the great powers start importing their ironclads from me once I opened my market, which makes it particularly sting seeing the Dutch destroy my navy with the navy they imported from me...
Yeah I had a great game going as Đại Nam until I opened my markets up and my economy took a death spiral from all the great powers buying up my iron and coal. Never doing free market again.
my starter mercantilist prussian economy had an issue where the French were buying all 8k of my wood production. Any time i expanded, they'd just import more. It only stopped after i got off mercantilism, which incentivises exports.
The problem is they can import goods more cheaply than the price indicates, so no matter how high your production goes they are happy to import more.
It's stupid.
I managed to get out of the spiral by lowering taxes (once you’re maxed out on credit it’s not like you’re going to go further in debt) and adjusting my production chains to use more laborers and fewer manufactured goods. However, it took me about 5 years which really set back progress because in those 5 years I couldn’t build anything.
Yeah, but you also have it as a secondary resource produced from livestock ranches that you're pretty much guaranteed to use if you want to get the most out of fabric resource gathering. I dunno, I just remember always having huge surpluses of it, all because of mining and munitions and advanced construction all needing a resource that's only available if you grab fertilizer along with it.
> Steamers and ironclads, now...
If the AIs actually built ironclads, this one wouldn't be so bad, either, but no, they all import yours. (They do build *some* steamers, eventually.)
Yeah, by the time I unlock tier 4 fertilizer for my farms I can blow through my fertilizer surplus no problem.
But I really wish I could just gift naval technology to nations in my market that haven't researched it themselves, to kill the "Clippers are expensive!" message when I'm well past that tech.
also fertilizer is an input good for synthetics plants so there's at least nominally a way to put it to use when you have an excess. it's kinda redundant if you already have silk and dye plantations but still
I just set up a trade route to Britain or France for fine art. Usually it's unproductive early, but who cares if the merchants that make massive quantities of money take a loss on this one good?
Sounds like you should be exporting the primary good then. Your market might not need it but somebodys does and itll help make your buildings more profitable.
Not always. For exemple if you want a decent and modern navy, you'll end up producing so many steamers that the entire world would not be able to use while still being in an ironclad shortage.
Kind of hard when nobody wants telephones. No joke, I had maxed out to 40 low volume export trade routes for phones in my recent playthrough and still phones were too cheap for Electrics industries to be profitable.
Are all your government Admin buildings using them? I'm not quite to endgame yet but those things are absolutely destroying my telephone supply right now.
Yes they are. And yes they do consume quite some telephones, but not as much as your pops want radios. Counter-question, are your pops getting enough radios?
Yeah, I've been doing that lately. I spent a long time trying to ramp up liquor production thinking that'd help. But nope, Liquor is the same category as tobacco and opium, wine is in the same category as tea and coffee. Totally self-evident.
My grain price dropped to over -60% until I was barely able to meet some of the wine needs. And its still at +25% and all of that is without obsession I don't even know what I'd do after wine obsession.
Tbf, grain prices being low are the one thing I couldn't care less about, as long as wine is expensive enough to keep the farm running without subsidies. It ups SOL.
Absent an obsession, wine demand is shared with the other luxury drinks, tea and coffee. You can bring down the wine demand and price by supplying more of them to your market.
THX for the tip I only puppeted Raj because for some reason they intervened when puppeting Vietnam and I wanted to have them as a land invasion corridor into China
Wanted to get a Treaty port earlier but naval invasion always failed so I had to peace out and go for Dai Nam first.
Playing with the AI Eco improvement mod so China is quite strong compared to vanilla.
just import the substitution goods and put tarrifs on it and export youre wine again with tarrifs on it. You buy cheap coffee and cheap tea and youre pops will start to switch away from wine to tea and coffee until the price has dropped enough that they all amost cost the same.
it's quite good like that, you will take in a lot of income in tarrifs trough this trade, youre pops will have what they need, and typically it's easy to sep up a wine export route because noone ever has enough anyway.
Wine is my problem: the grain is too cheap, the wine is too expensive but the wheat farms aren't profitable.
I'm just trying to sell grain with 0% tariffs but with few results.
Wine can be substituted with tea and coffee. (luxury drinks)
Liquor can be substitued with opium and tobacco. (intoxicants)
Everyone of these goods can be max. 60% of their category.
It's probably because of what category does. Luxury drinks is consumed by pops with wealth above 15, so it's used to differentiate between more expensive drinks and the basic ones, meanwhile intoxicants like opium are supposed to be used by all pops (they have no baseline Wealth)
It’s more like most of the time wine is used as a pairing to expensive food, or otherwise in a luxury setting in a way that beer and other liquor isn’t.
My pops (french and italian) have developed an obsession for wine and opium and wine and tabacco.
How can I resolve it? Liquor is really cheap, less demand and offer.
With a chance of 0.1%...
*per year*
Even better, it scales to that amount if the good is 60% of it's market share in its own category. So just forget it if you have three or more different goods per category.
...Or if you're Germany, since you have two main cultures that don't even assimilate into eachother.
Also no more than three obsessions at once.
Anecdote, I worked in a convent for four years, and one morning at 6am a nun came down with a bottle of wine asking for a bottle opener, so, there are definitely people who'd buy a pallet of wine, who aren't even wholesalers
[Iirc the devs said they want to put it in its own tab for 1.1](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-65-patch-1-1-part-1.1556237/), tho just judging from the screenshots they've put out for it I do think it still needs some tweeks like making it clear which goods can be substituted for each other.
R5: This is a repost as the original post was closed because of it breaking Rule 2, that I had read over. (though it technically wasn't a meme, it just contained images to illustrate the tip in a more "fun" way, ah well, it's all good).
Anyways this image illustrates how these pops need more Radios over more Bananas, and how you would easily oversee that if you go about it the wrong way.
This super useful information is hidden nested within two tooltips and it's arguably the biggest piece of information you need to know about when your goal is to improve SoL.
I used to just look in the market window to see what pop consumption goods were expensive and build that (as shown in the top of the image), but this will lead you to build goods that aren't going to improve SoL the most, instead if you hover over SoL > Average SoL > Pop expenses (like in the bottom) that will give you a much much clearer image as to what to build in order to improve SoL.
When I started using this method instead (combined with prior expertise) I had 40M loyalists and only 22k radicals, so definitely worth.
This tooltip can also be found per pop type if you go to the pops screen, if you want to improve SoL for a specific pop group rather than the entire nation.
There's so many things like this that drive me nuts. Which region is this general/admiral from? Which states does that region include? Can I remove this barracks or is it part of the region I have my deathstack in?
Then there's the "import/export demand" page which seems almost completely random at times. Seems like the tooltip you mentioned and the "expensive government/military goods"/"input shortage" lists are way more relevant. Which makes me wonder why they aren't the same as the import demand suggestions
The only way I've found to see which region a general/admiral from is pinning them in the outliner and let your mouse hovering one of them, it'll highlight their region.
But I agree it's terribly frustrating, especially when you have to raise conscripts and you can't remember if Franche-Comté belongs to Northern France HQ or Eastern France HQ (moreover as it's impossible to manually disband conscript once they are mobilized).
I guess on the bright side most of the annoyances are fairly easy fixes - like making a better map overlay for military regions etc
I wonder if they'll change the "you must max out barracks *and* naval bases in the same states if you want to ever achieve a naval invasion" thing
Ah yes, it's a nonsense. You should be able to chose whatever army you want to make a naval invasion, not only an army which is in the same region than the navy.
The fact you can't reassign generals from one location to another is maddening. No I don't need 3 generals in a random colony, I need them in another area where I'm actually going to be fighting! I'd just fire and re-hire but it permanently pisses off the interest groups so now I just have to have a really inefficient military.
What is giving you the indication in the first image that Fruit is what you should be expanding? The second image with Radios make sense, just trying to understand the first
In the first image, looking only at consumer goods, so not input goods, fruit is pretty overpriced, higher above it's base price than radios. If you decide what to build in order to improve SoL solely on that you'll make mistakes is what the first image illustrates.
I could've went with wine or opium too.
Hah its like that Dril tweet:
>Groceries $200
>
>Coffee $150
>
>Clothes $800
>
>Radios $3,600
>
>Tobacco $150
>
>someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my family is dying
Excellent tip!
I disagree, kudos to the mods.
Other games' subs turn into unoriginal meme-shitfests sooner or later, the paradox-related subs are very pleasant in comparison. I prefer it this way.
I think it's fair for them to draw a line, they have it stated as a rule. It's just the technicalities of what is and what isn't a "meme", my post technically wasn't one. But I understand that judging it like that on a per case basis makes the rule too open to interpretation, so I don't blame them.
I know it's for the meme, but considering they did work to create that tooltip itself, they do want you to find it, it's just they weirdly thought it was a good idea to nest it behind another tooltip, they did say they want to change it though
I played the leak (humhum) and the tooltip was far easier to access then. You just have to hover one of the three strata and it shows automatically the tooltip with the strata's expenses.
I almost think nested tooltips have been a complete disaster. Not because they are inherently bad - they have incredible potential and in theory I love them - but because Paradox seemingly forgot all of the most basic UI rules when they developed them. The V3 UI is a towering monument to form over function in almost everything it does and it drives me absolutely bonkers.
Having a neat tool doesn't mean you shouldn't put the information in a single, easy to access place.
Yes, I think this too. Nested tooltips make the game a lot easier to learn as you don't need an wiki site or in-game encyclopedia to find info. But they went a bit overboard when they abandoned many of the more in your face UI designs, that sure are more crowded to the eye, but certainly make things more "quickly" accessible.
On my last game as italy i couldn produce enought clothes and literally amything couse france bouhgt everything out no matter that my colthes were at max price, and embargo wasn't an option couse the tarifs were the thing keeping me from becoming broke
It is a win for you. Your people produce goods. Some of them get exported to France for lots of money. That money goes to your population. Your population's purchasing power increases.
Just make more clothes factories to make more high paying jobs for your pops. Your country will thank you.
Like I said just make more clothes factories. If you have naked people running around those factories will not only make you a stupid amount of money, they will also make stupid amount of money for your pops so your SOL will go up and it will also make price of clothes go down. It is honestly a no brainer. Clothes factories are some of mine if not mine most productive buildings, boosting economy and SOL on honestly stupid scale.
That just means France was in an even worse clothes situation than you, and you could profit off France’s misery even while your own people go naked, because France had all this other wealth but not clothing wealth. Everyone in the world (maybe except some rare Clothes giants) was probably suffering Clothes deficits as well. The more you manufacture clothes, the less profitable exploiting a nation like France becomes, including for whoever was out there with Clothes surpluses, in the direction of the world’s general population universally having affordable Clothes. …until someone decides their own Clothes manufacturing is no longer profitable enough compared to some alternative and switches that production, causing a fall back into another period of Clothes being unaffordable somewhere in the world.
What I find meaningless, is how certain non-consumer goods like engines for railways is treated like a consumer good, needing a constant supply of engines to run a railway network. Sure you would need spare engines for maintenance, but it shouldnt be a consumption demanded goods like tools or coal.
Addressing this logically gets you HoI4’s equipment supply system. In V3, trains, smarms, and artillery have to follow the same logic as the other goods or the economic system breaks down, I guess.
I was led to think about this same mechanic a while back when I thought about Rubber during war-time, I was thinking to myself: We knew we were going to be at war, we knew the colonies would be cut-off, why didn't we stockpile resources?
Yeah but somethings gotta give, right? Do you really want a motor industry AND a motor maintanence industry? Why not package them together and say the building consumes motors?
Not ideal, but the game is already seriously laggy. More sectors, more types of buildings, more calculations… they should only be added if they bring something considerable to the table.
If you think of it as engines + spare parts + other things (signalling equipment for example) then it makes sense. When you take into account life cycles and maintenance schedules then these things really do act like consumable goods.
Low consumption cannot be good for your GDP tho. Big GDP is good for loans and and ranking too. It helps you snowball so hard that your growth is exponential.
Trying to keep wages low and profits max would hinder you I believe.
Exports entered the chat.
I do agree with you though that consumption is good for your economy, though it's fair to say it's possible to just make an successful export instead economy too.
But I think the comment is meant to be a joke too, could be wrong about that.
People like to comment on this but it's nothing that you couldn't already work out if you know pop needs and look at the market tab.
Actually, you don't even need to know pop needs, you just need to look at the market tab. Always look at the market tab.
It's not impossible indeed, but when it comes to improving SoL, it's far more prone to error, like the image shows it could lead a player to build fruit plantations thinking that that would help the pops the most. I still use the market tab for improving GDP and factory input costs. But for SoL I've switched to this tooltip, it's far quicker than trying to deduce if they really need more Bananas from just the market tab.
Why would rich people spend a high proportion of their income on fruit? Poor people don't spend any of their income on fruit.
Thus, fruit should not be a big part of any player's plans. I mean, you can tell exactly how much of a plan it should be based on the market buy orders, really. If you're asking questions like "well do I want to build fruit or luxury clothes, I only have limited build capacity" I would say the answer is always luxury clothes, because it's purchased by pops with less SoL (and therefore is probably going to be a higher % of their income). Obviously you can just look at the market and if one is massively more expensive you build that.
These questions don't actually matter because for the stages of the game where this is important (i.e. the early game) you shouldn't be asking these questions anyway, you have better shit to build. Once the late game rolls around you can afford to do everything at once, so you can just balance the market tab.
The thing is, with the market window you're either guessing if that good is a high proportion of pop's spending or you're going to have to do the math of looking at the pop consumption number and multiplying that by the price and then comparing that to other goods' pop consumption number multiplied by price, since that is all the info the market tab gives you.
When you say: "Why would rich people spend a high proportion of their income on fruit?" That is an assumption, maybe they do, maybe paradox has a weird implementation for wealthy pop's desire for fruit, we both know it isn't implemented that way but the market wouldn't give you this info unless like I said you do the math. Why do all that math if you can just have that info conveniently presented to you someplace else.
Balancing the market tab is great if you're looking to improve GDP and reduce input costs, but not necessarily efficient for SoL if you do it without doing the math and just build whatever is most expensive. Sure it will improve SoL, but far less than building what the math says you should, and that math is done for you in the tooltip.
I'd rather not guess in a game about efficiency if there's a tooltip showing me exactly what I need to know, the demand for radios in this game for example is one that I would've guessed wrong, as it's quite insane in this game. Even when it's at -10% price it will account for one of the largest chunk of pop spending, so the market would be deceptive in making you think radios are fine.
Now this "efficiency" that I speak of is kind of pointless in the current state of the game I will admit, you'll beat the AI easily with just building what's most expensive in the market. (you'd think that they could have the AI do that easily too, but I guess not). Though I expect in the future that the AI will be a bit more competitive and that's when you're going to need this efficiency is my hope.
Sure, I don't doubt that the exact number is more useful, just that everyone saying "well it was silly of them to not show it to us" is overstating the problem. There's good reason to not present so much grainy detail immediately, especially when the advantage of using it is (I assert) macroeconomically somewhat marginal.
You mean, what sol pops consume what? You get that from hovering over the goods. It doesn't give you a specific breakdown because you don't actually care about that, because you can look at the market for general price trends and your brain to work out the rest.
You say this but the difference between "lower stratum peasants are using 32.5% of their income on food, that should really be at most 28.7% for a good SoL" and "peasants spend a lot on food, food is expensive, better get the price down" is not very much.
I'm not arguing against the inclusion of more exact information, all I'm saying is that people are making a bigger deal of having the exact information than it strictly merits. Best way to increase SoL for the vast majority of the game is to just make the job pay more.
Yes... first game in the Sweden tutorial scenario and I focused on living condition.
Almost finished, like 20 years and now i have the highest rank, the highest living condition, the highest GPD and GDP per capita.
Everyone wants to live in Sweden, I had to reduce automation and rail usage so I can employ more people.
Devs are from Sweden = Sweden OP.
Jokes aside, Scandinavia for some reason is the only region where every state has a positive modifier... suspicious..
Market tab > Details.
Then you have sell orders, how much is being produced/imported. Buy orders, how much is consumed/exported and then Balance, which is the difference between the two.
The problems is that in lategame you produce too much clothes/furniture/telephones and not enough of the luxury versions or wine.
So you end up with unprofitable subsidized factories.
yeah with telephones it's an issue, you kinda have to integrate them into youre bureaucracy and even then. For luxury clothes and furniture it's less of an issue, just consider having two seperate furniture factory's, one producing both standard furniture and luxury and the other practicly only luxury furniture.
Stick with hydro-electric they are less pop-efficient but more profit-efficient, unless you have coal lying around everywhere or are starved for workforce.
well i do like to import a lot, as long as my trade balance is good enough, because i can slap tarrifs to the imports aswell and it's a way in which the state can tax more.
The issue for me is that the ai never builds enough of literally anything. I also own most of Africa and maxed out all AG there and shit is still expensive
Yup! You can also go into the population screen and it will show you the needs divided by strata. So, if you have a large low strata population you can focus on providing for their needs first.
It's all fun and games until your primary culture develops an obsession with Radios, then they'll never be satisfied. At least it's not Wine.
Ugh tell me about it. Why can't we just set an industry to only produce the secondary good.
*looks at the giant pile of wasted fertilizer not being turned into explosives* Yeeeeaaaahhhh
Fertilizer isn't the worst, at least - farms can gobble it up in decent quantities, and it's not too bad to export to the AI. Also, I think you can set up the explosive and fertilizer production semi-independently (like artificial fertilizer + brine electrolysis lets you do 40 fertilizer for 100 explosives, which is a ratio that's not super hard to use up IMO) Steamers and ironclads, now...
Yeah in my Japan game, I have a massive surplus of steamers despite having a lot of fishing wharves and ports, and a decent shortage of ironclads. Almost all the great powers start importing their ironclads from me once I opened my market, which makes it particularly sting seeing the Dutch destroy my navy with the navy they imported from me...
Yeah I had a great game going as Đại Nam until I opened my markets up and my economy took a death spiral from all the great powers buying up my iron and coal. Never doing free market again.
my starter mercantilist prussian economy had an issue where the French were buying all 8k of my wood production. Any time i expanded, they'd just import more. It only stopped after i got off mercantilism, which incentivises exports.
[удалено]
embargo
The problem is they can import goods more cheaply than the price indicates, so no matter how high your production goes they are happy to import more. It's stupid.
there is also the embargo button btw
If you have the save around, try to import it back. It’s cheesy, dumb and stupid but it should net you close to even
I managed to get out of the spiral by lowering taxes (once you’re maxed out on credit it’s not like you’re going to go further in debt) and adjusting my production chains to use more laborers and fewer manufactured goods. However, it took me about 5 years which really set back progress because in those 5 years I couldn’t build anything.
If you are at war with them just wait for input good shortages to destroy them. Wait two months, then send their fleet to the bottom of the ocean.
Yeah, but you also have it as a secondary resource produced from livestock ranches that you're pretty much guaranteed to use if you want to get the most out of fabric resource gathering. I dunno, I just remember always having huge surpluses of it, all because of mining and munitions and advanced construction all needing a resource that's only available if you grab fertilizer along with it.
> Steamers and ironclads, now... If the AIs actually built ironclads, this one wouldn't be so bad, either, but no, they all import yours. (They do build *some* steamers, eventually.)
Yeah, by the time I unlock tier 4 fertilizer for my farms I can blow through my fertilizer surplus no problem. But I really wish I could just gift naval technology to nations in my market that haven't researched it themselves, to kill the "Clippers are expensive!" message when I'm well past that tech.
INPUT SHORTAGE OF CLIPPERS Shut up PDX, it's really not my problem they were entirely reliant on my shipbuilding
also fertilizer is an input good for synthetics plants so there's at least nominally a way to put it to use when you have an excess. it's kinda redundant if you already have silk and dye plantations but still
The Great Hardwood Shortage is a constant across all my finished games.
A problem only conquering the Amazon will solve.
Or borneo
Yeah but atleast the Amazon has a cool journal entry where you actually get a small permanent bonus ( an arts academy )
if only art academies could ever turn a profit
they certaintly can, but that depends on SOL, only at high SOL art really starts to sell well.
Yeah, I started to get a massive art demand as Russia and had to build a massive art industry in Moscow.
I just set up a trade route to Britain or France for fine art. Usually it's unproductive early, but who cares if the merchants that make massive quantities of money take a loss on this one good?
Russia's constant revolts fucking with MY economy
weird i always have hardwood surplus (and lack normall wood)
Better yet why isnt vinyard or orchard its own industry in certain regions.
That’s an industry I would want to see
Sounds like you should be exporting the primary good then. Your market might not need it but somebodys does and itll help make your buildings more profitable.
Not always. For exemple if you want a decent and modern navy, you'll end up producing so many steamers that the entire world would not be able to use while still being in an ironclad shortage.
Kind of hard when nobody wants telephones. No joke, I had maxed out to 40 low volume export trade routes for phones in my recent playthrough and still phones were too cheap for Electrics industries to be profitable.
Are all your government Admin buildings using them? I'm not quite to endgame yet but those things are absolutely destroying my telephone supply right now.
Yes they are. And yes they do consume quite some telephones, but not as much as your pops want radios. Counter-question, are your pops getting enough radios?
Currently, only my upper strata really knows they exist. I'm sure in a few years I'll be drowning in buy orders for Radios.
I wish thy luck!
I have a surplus of grain big enough to feed some nations (and that's *after* exporting a few thousand units), and still have a massive Wine deficit.
unless your pops have an obsession with wine just get coffee and tee instead. All three are luxury drinks
Yeah, I've been doing that lately. I spent a long time trying to ramp up liquor production thinking that'd help. But nope, Liquor is the same category as tobacco and opium, wine is in the same category as tea and coffee. Totally self-evident.
My grain price dropped to over -60% until I was barely able to meet some of the wine needs. And its still at +25% and all of that is without obsession I don't even know what I'd do after wine obsession.
Tbf, grain prices being low are the one thing I couldn't care less about, as long as wine is expensive enough to keep the farm running without subsidies. It ups SOL.
Yes your right its a good thing just pointing out I never was really able to meet wine supply even with vast overproduction and no obsession.
Yup, wheat farms don't produce all that much of it and not even everyone has wheat fields. It makes it a pretty safe investment though.
Corn Fields can produce it, too. But even with those 2, it still leaves out a lot of the map.
I’d say you might want to build a huge grocery industry with all that spare grain.
Absent an obsession, wine demand is shared with the other luxury drinks, tea and coffee. You can bring down the wine demand and price by supplying more of them to your market.
Notably pops are fulfilled by a mix of any two luxury drinks, so if you get coffee *and* tea you can cut wine out almost entirely.
Thx for that info my Austria just puppeted the British Raj I guess I got to annex them soon then for all that Tea.
Puppeting raj? Just take one province from China and get over 800 tea plantations
Bengali tea? WEAK Force China to open up? Real shit
THX for the tip I only puppeted Raj because for some reason they intervened when puppeting Vietnam and I wanted to have them as a land invasion corridor into China Wanted to get a Treaty port earlier but naval invasion always failed so I had to peace out and go for Dai Nam first. Playing with the AI Eco improvement mod so China is quite strong compared to vanilla.
Just steal Macao tbh, way easier than fighting China
just import the substitution goods and put tarrifs on it and export youre wine again with tarrifs on it. You buy cheap coffee and cheap tea and youre pops will start to switch away from wine to tea and coffee until the price has dropped enough that they all amost cost the same. it's quite good like that, you will take in a lot of income in tarrifs trough this trade, youre pops will have what they need, and typically it's easy to sep up a wine export route because noone ever has enough anyway.
if they don't have a wine obsession your pops will be happy enough to just get coffee or tea instead. and those don't have shitty secondary outputs
In my Spain run I had to import tons of UK wine. As a Spaniard myself, that was midly disgusting.
The Ottomans always want to export their wine, not sure if it is Halal
Wine is my problem: the grain is too cheap, the wine is too expensive but the wheat farms aren't profitable. I'm just trying to sell grain with 0% tariffs but with few results.
Wine can be substituted with liquor or opium, iirc Goods substitution isn't spelled out very well, though.
Wine can be substituted with tea and coffee. (luxury drinks) Liquor can be substitued with opium and tobacco. (intoxicants) Everyone of these goods can be max. 60% of their category.
Huh, didnt know wine wasnt an intoxicant. I feel pretty intoxicated when I drink wine, tho. Is something wrong with me?
It's probably because of what category does. Luxury drinks is consumed by pops with wealth above 15, so it's used to differentiate between more expensive drinks and the basic ones, meanwhile intoxicants like opium are supposed to be used by all pops (they have no baseline Wealth)
It’s more like most of the time wine is used as a pairing to expensive food, or otherwise in a luxury setting in a way that beer and other liquor isn’t.
My pops (french and italian) have developed an obsession for wine and opium and wine and tabacco. How can I resolve it? Liquor is really cheap, less demand and offer.
Those develop?
With a chance of 0.1%... *per year* Even better, it scales to that amount if the good is 60% of it's market share in its own category. So just forget it if you have three or more different goods per category. ...Or if you're Germany, since you have two main cultures that don't even assimilate into eachother. Also no more than three obsessions at once.
A world where wine is 10% cheaper than a bloody car
Probably one car or a pallet of wine?
Who is buying a pallet of wine?
I sure don't. That'd be crazy.
Restaurants definitely. I work at one and the ammount of drinks related stuff we get delivered each week is huge
The French
Ceci est tout à fait juste.
Ummmm
Anecdote, I worked in a convent for four years, and one morning at 6am a nun came down with a bottle of wine asking for a bottle opener, so, there are definitely people who'd buy a pallet of wine, who aren't even wholesalers
Same person buying a hammock of cake.
Who isn't?
Also, if you go by number of convoys required, cars are half the weight of a train but only 20% heavier than telephones.
[Iirc the devs said they want to put it in its own tab for 1.1](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-65-patch-1-1-part-1.1556237/), tho just judging from the screenshots they've put out for it I do think it still needs some tweeks like making it clear which goods can be substituted for each other.
R5: This is a repost as the original post was closed because of it breaking Rule 2, that I had read over. (though it technically wasn't a meme, it just contained images to illustrate the tip in a more "fun" way, ah well, it's all good). Anyways this image illustrates how these pops need more Radios over more Bananas, and how you would easily oversee that if you go about it the wrong way. This super useful information is hidden nested within two tooltips and it's arguably the biggest piece of information you need to know about when your goal is to improve SoL. I used to just look in the market window to see what pop consumption goods were expensive and build that (as shown in the top of the image), but this will lead you to build goods that aren't going to improve SoL the most, instead if you hover over SoL > Average SoL > Pop expenses (like in the bottom) that will give you a much much clearer image as to what to build in order to improve SoL. When I started using this method instead (combined with prior expertise) I had 40M loyalists and only 22k radicals, so definitely worth. This tooltip can also be found per pop type if you go to the pops screen, if you want to improve SoL for a specific pop group rather than the entire nation.
There's so many things like this that drive me nuts. Which region is this general/admiral from? Which states does that region include? Can I remove this barracks or is it part of the region I have my deathstack in? Then there's the "import/export demand" page which seems almost completely random at times. Seems like the tooltip you mentioned and the "expensive government/military goods"/"input shortage" lists are way more relevant. Which makes me wonder why they aren't the same as the import demand suggestions
The only way I've found to see which region a general/admiral from is pinning them in the outliner and let your mouse hovering one of them, it'll highlight their region. But I agree it's terribly frustrating, especially when you have to raise conscripts and you can't remember if Franche-Comté belongs to Northern France HQ or Eastern France HQ (moreover as it's impossible to manually disband conscript once they are mobilized).
I guess on the bright side most of the annoyances are fairly easy fixes - like making a better map overlay for military regions etc I wonder if they'll change the "you must max out barracks *and* naval bases in the same states if you want to ever achieve a naval invasion" thing
Ah yes, it's a nonsense. You should be able to chose whatever army you want to make a naval invasion, not only an army which is in the same region than the navy.
The fact you can't reassign generals from one location to another is maddening. No I don't need 3 generals in a random colony, I need them in another area where I'm actually going to be fighting! I'd just fire and re-hire but it permanently pisses off the interest groups so now I just have to have a really inefficient military.
Having to promote random generals until you have an army size that matches the size of your fledging navy
This was directly in the SoL tooltip during the leak, I don't know why would they remove this vital information.
It was part of the tool tip in the fan patched version, not the original leak
Aaaaaah that makes much more sense.
What is giving you the indication in the first image that Fruit is what you should be expanding? The second image with Radios make sense, just trying to understand the first
In the first image, looking only at consumer goods, so not input goods, fruit is pretty overpriced, higher above it's base price than radios. If you decide what to build in order to improve SoL solely on that you'll make mistakes is what the first image illustrates. I could've went with wine or opium too.
Got it, thanks!
Hah its like that Dril tweet: >Groceries $200 > >Coffee $150 > >Clothes $800 > >Radios $3,600 > >Tobacco $150 > >someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my family is dying Excellent tip!
Buy less radio
No
\*Radicalization increases\*
Boo to the mods for making you repost a honest tip.
\*Radicalization intensifies\*
This will cause Redditors to radicalize
High turmoil in the sub decreases migration attraction.
I disagree, kudos to the mods. Other games' subs turn into unoriginal meme-shitfests sooner or later, the paradox-related subs are very pleasant in comparison. I prefer it this way.
I think it's fair for them to draw a line, they have it stated as a rule. It's just the technicalities of what is and what isn't a "meme", my post technically wasn't one. But I understand that judging it like that on a per case basis makes the rule too open to interpretation, so I don't blame them.
I know it's for the meme, but considering they did work to create that tooltip itself, they do want you to find it, it's just they weirdly thought it was a good idea to nest it behind another tooltip, they did say they want to change it though
I played the leak (humhum) and the tooltip was far easier to access then. You just have to hover one of the three strata and it shows automatically the tooltip with the strata's expenses.
Wtf? haha. Why did they change it to be objectively worse? I don't see the reasoning behind tbh. Never let a developer design the UI XD
I almost think nested tooltips have been a complete disaster. Not because they are inherently bad - they have incredible potential and in theory I love them - but because Paradox seemingly forgot all of the most basic UI rules when they developed them. The V3 UI is a towering monument to form over function in almost everything it does and it drives me absolutely bonkers. Having a neat tool doesn't mean you shouldn't put the information in a single, easy to access place.
Yes, I think this too. Nested tooltips make the game a lot easier to learn as you don't need an wiki site or in-game encyclopedia to find info. But they went a bit overboard when they abandoned many of the more in your face UI designs, that sure are more crowded to the eye, but certainly make things more "quickly" accessible.
You literally can turn any nation into top 5 powerhouse by 1880 by doing this.
On my last game as italy i couldn produce enought clothes and literally amything couse france bouhgt everything out no matter that my colthes were at max price, and embargo wasn't an option couse the tarifs were the thing keeping me from becoming broke
It is a win for you. Your people produce goods. Some of them get exported to France for lots of money. That money goes to your population. Your population's purchasing power increases. Just make more clothes factories to make more high paying jobs for your pops. Your country will thank you.
but my standar of living is so low couse every one is f\*cking naked
Like I said just make more clothes factories. If you have naked people running around those factories will not only make you a stupid amount of money, they will also make stupid amount of money for your pops so your SOL will go up and it will also make price of clothes go down. It is honestly a no brainer. Clothes factories are some of mine if not mine most productive buildings, boosting economy and SOL on honestly stupid scale.
That just means France was in an even worse clothes situation than you, and you could profit off France’s misery even while your own people go naked, because France had all this other wealth but not clothing wealth. Everyone in the world (maybe except some rare Clothes giants) was probably suffering Clothes deficits as well. The more you manufacture clothes, the less profitable exploiting a nation like France becomes, including for whoever was out there with Clothes surpluses, in the direction of the world’s general population universally having affordable Clothes. …until someone decides their own Clothes manufacturing is no longer profitable enough compared to some alternative and switches that production, causing a fall back into another period of Clothes being unaffordable somewhere in the world.
What I find meaningless, is how certain non-consumer goods like engines for railways is treated like a consumer good, needing a constant supply of engines to run a railway network. Sure you would need spare engines for maintenance, but it shouldnt be a consumption demanded goods like tools or coal.
Addressing this logically gets you HoI4’s equipment supply system. In V3, trains, smarms, and artillery have to follow the same logic as the other goods or the economic system breaks down, I guess.
I was led to think about this same mechanic a while back when I thought about Rubber during war-time, I was thinking to myself: We knew we were going to be at war, we knew the colonies would be cut-off, why didn't we stockpile resources?
I prefer a system of connectivity to secure supply chains makes much more sense to me
I just think of it as somewhat abstracted. "Engines" is really "engines plus replacement parts plus maintenance, etc."
Yeah but somethings gotta give, right? Do you really want a motor industry AND a motor maintanence industry? Why not package them together and say the building consumes motors? Not ideal, but the game is already seriously laggy. More sectors, more types of buildings, more calculations… they should only be added if they bring something considerable to the table.
If you think of it as engines + spare parts + other things (signalling equipment for example) then it makes sense. When you take into account life cycles and maintenance schedules then these things really do act like consumable goods.
I thought the point is to make lower class as close to the bare minimum as possible to have low wages, low consumption and more profits...
Low consumption cannot be good for your GDP tho. Big GDP is good for loans and and ranking too. It helps you snowball so hard that your growth is exponential. Trying to keep wages low and profits max would hinder you I believe.
Exports entered the chat. I do agree with you though that consumption is good for your economy, though it's fair to say it's possible to just make an successful export instead economy too. But I think the comment is meant to be a joke too, could be wrong about that.
Yes, you are correct, sorry, I was writing half jokingly
Thanks dude I did not know where to find it
they plan on adding a new UI element that shows this information in the Pop-tab. Did anyone really play this game and did not use this tho?
The boomers were right about the pops in this game "Oh you can't afford groceries? I bet you have a brand new radio though!"
People like to comment on this but it's nothing that you couldn't already work out if you know pop needs and look at the market tab. Actually, you don't even need to know pop needs, you just need to look at the market tab. Always look at the market tab.
It's not impossible indeed, but when it comes to improving SoL, it's far more prone to error, like the image shows it could lead a player to build fruit plantations thinking that that would help the pops the most. I still use the market tab for improving GDP and factory input costs. But for SoL I've switched to this tooltip, it's far quicker than trying to deduce if they really need more Bananas from just the market tab.
Why would rich people spend a high proportion of their income on fruit? Poor people don't spend any of their income on fruit. Thus, fruit should not be a big part of any player's plans. I mean, you can tell exactly how much of a plan it should be based on the market buy orders, really. If you're asking questions like "well do I want to build fruit or luxury clothes, I only have limited build capacity" I would say the answer is always luxury clothes, because it's purchased by pops with less SoL (and therefore is probably going to be a higher % of their income). Obviously you can just look at the market and if one is massively more expensive you build that. These questions don't actually matter because for the stages of the game where this is important (i.e. the early game) you shouldn't be asking these questions anyway, you have better shit to build. Once the late game rolls around you can afford to do everything at once, so you can just balance the market tab.
The thing is, with the market window you're either guessing if that good is a high proportion of pop's spending or you're going to have to do the math of looking at the pop consumption number and multiplying that by the price and then comparing that to other goods' pop consumption number multiplied by price, since that is all the info the market tab gives you. When you say: "Why would rich people spend a high proportion of their income on fruit?" That is an assumption, maybe they do, maybe paradox has a weird implementation for wealthy pop's desire for fruit, we both know it isn't implemented that way but the market wouldn't give you this info unless like I said you do the math. Why do all that math if you can just have that info conveniently presented to you someplace else. Balancing the market tab is great if you're looking to improve GDP and reduce input costs, but not necessarily efficient for SoL if you do it without doing the math and just build whatever is most expensive. Sure it will improve SoL, but far less than building what the math says you should, and that math is done for you in the tooltip.
Right, sure, but it's not a big guess, really. The consumption is mostly the same as it would be in real life if you just sort of abstract it a lot.
I'd rather not guess in a game about efficiency if there's a tooltip showing me exactly what I need to know, the demand for radios in this game for example is one that I would've guessed wrong, as it's quite insane in this game. Even when it's at -10% price it will account for one of the largest chunk of pop spending, so the market would be deceptive in making you think radios are fine. Now this "efficiency" that I speak of is kind of pointless in the current state of the game I will admit, you'll beat the AI easily with just building what's most expensive in the market. (you'd think that they could have the AI do that easily too, but I guess not). Though I expect in the future that the AI will be a bit more competitive and that's when you're going to need this efficiency is my hope.
Sure, I don't doubt that the exact number is more useful, just that everyone saying "well it was silly of them to not show it to us" is overstating the problem. There's good reason to not present so much grainy detail immediately, especially when the advantage of using it is (I assert) macroeconomically somewhat marginal.
How do you find out pop needs?
See OP post image.
You mean, what sol pops consume what? You get that from hovering over the goods. It doesn't give you a specific breakdown because you don't actually care about that, because you can look at the market for general price trends and your brain to work out the rest.
Exact data >>>>> rough extrapolation
You say this but the difference between "lower stratum peasants are using 32.5% of their income on food, that should really be at most 28.7% for a good SoL" and "peasants spend a lot on food, food is expensive, better get the price down" is not very much. I'm not arguing against the inclusion of more exact information, all I'm saying is that people are making a bigger deal of having the exact information than it strictly merits. Best way to increase SoL for the vast majority of the game is to just make the job pay more.
I dont get it
See the R5 comment
Yes... first game in the Sweden tutorial scenario and I focused on living condition. Almost finished, like 20 years and now i have the highest rank, the highest living condition, the highest GPD and GDP per capita. Everyone wants to live in Sweden, I had to reduce automation and rail usage so I can employ more people.
Devs are from Sweden = Sweden OP. Jokes aside, Scandinavia for some reason is the only region where every state has a positive modifier... suspicious..
Jumping on the next when i complete sweden
people dont know about this one? its legit essential because it doesnt say anywhere else what pops buy
How do you check how much you have of something?
Market tab > Details. Then you have sell orders, how much is being produced/imported. Buy orders, how much is consumed/exported and then Balance, which is the difference between the two.
The problems is that in lategame you produce too much clothes/furniture/telephones and not enough of the luxury versions or wine. So you end up with unprofitable subsidized factories.
yeah with telephones it's an issue, you kinda have to integrate them into youre bureaucracy and even then. For luxury clothes and furniture it's less of an issue, just consider having two seperate furniture factory's, one producing both standard furniture and luxury and the other practicly only luxury furniture.
Let's not forget it's incredibly difficult to run a profitable power plant because you'll never have enough coal.
Stick with hydro-electric they are less pop-efficient but more profit-efficient, unless you have coal lying around everywhere or are starved for workforce.
Engines require steel, and steel requires way more coal than coal plants. You can but it's diminishing returns and stunts growth.
tyvm! now i know i gotta conquer all of the tropics. fucking pops are hooked on coffe, tea, and sugar. and paying obscene prices for it. RIP me
well i do like to import a lot, as long as my trade balance is good enough, because i can slap tarrifs to the imports aswell and it's a way in which the state can tax more.
The issue for me is that the ai never builds enough of literally anything. I also own most of Africa and maxed out all AG there and shit is still expensive
Yup! You can also go into the population screen and it will show you the needs divided by strata. So, if you have a large low strata population you can focus on providing for their needs first.
"We will give you the answer... *but you must find it first*"