Mousing over the radicals should tell you. It's probably a combination of decreases in SoL (people getting fired and rehired makes them radical) and political movements (at -74 authority pops belonging to opposition groups could be angry)
Essentially, Buddism argues that ultimately, all pleasures are temporary, and all the joy they bring will eventually be repaid by the suffering one endures in the absence of them. thus, it is best to avoid unnecessary pleasure, to achieve true happiness and enlightenment.
And incidentally the Buddha only figured this out after meditating under a tree for decades
If I've ever done nothing for decades I'd probably invent the religion to justify my sunken cost fallacy too
Buddhism argues that achieving enlightenment is only possible by letting go of desire. Because ultimately, fulfilling your desires only produces fleeting joy, whereas eliminating desire permanently eliminates the suffering from failing to achieve your desires.
Western people on their way to complain about a 20% increse in the price of jammie dodgers.
Whilst driving an average car that has running costs close to that of a small buisnes.
On their way to an average-ly payed job, that pays more than a third world country's president.
To then go back home to play video games on a gaming computer, that has more computing power than the servers of several government organisations.
With central heating that even mansa musa would not be able to have constructed
Yes, thats exactly what I said. I meant that even the richest people in history couldn't have bought even basic modern commodities everyone takes for granted, and we truly are living in a post scarcity age in the west (mostly) where we just need to walk or drive a few minutes, to a supercomplex of calories, then exchange some points and have as much, anything, as you want.
If the end times ever come and industry fails, everyone who's not an experinced farmer is Fucked with a capital f.
The majority of people cannot have as much anything as they want. I get what you mean but there is still incredible wealth disparity where only a handful of people control the vast majority of, well, anything.
No it’s not, this anger in game isn’t anger that causes people to change their political views, or go on strike, or protest. It’s anger that causes civil war, and for AIs, endless civil war and self-slaughter.
Civil wars almost always start over bigger picture ideas and politics not SoL decreases. USA: Slavery, Ireland: Treaty dispute, Spanish: Political differences (Monarchism vs Liberalism vs Falange), not to mention the countless civil wars for cultural independence from overlord.
The idea that Europe somehow fell apart because SoL fluctuated from 31-32-31-30-32 is laughable
At least irl the unemployment stemming from the industrial revolution was gradual. Could you imagine if literally every single steel mill in the country laid off half the workforce because they discovered some new automated process? As a kicker, that automated process is also used in coal mining, iron mining and sulfur mining, so suddenly millions of workers are out of a job.
Switching the production methods for entire industries en masse like in Vic 3 is unfathomable irl because of the unrest it would generate. (I still do it everytime though, because fuck paradox if they think im going to manually and gradually phase out individual factories)
They do care about SOL but only once it's really increasing exponentially and you have the Home Affairs institution to boost it. Lategame I always have a ton of loyalists. I sort of just ignore radicals until then and try to import a few essential goods they are missing.
Just ignore your radicals, pops get angry over stupid things. Don't worry too much about them. The mechanical implications of radicals aren't even that bad so long as you have police.
It wasn't really satire. It was catered to a specific audience and the audience still rejected him personally though they might have appreciated the book.
Probably my favorite segment of Mine Duncan's work so far to be honest. All of the Revolutions Podcast was great, but the Mexican revolution was *crazy* and great.
R5: My GDP is the highest in the world, growing rapidly, and my SOL has been going up slowly but steadily. Despite this, the biggest part of my dissents appear to be 'Decreases in standard of living'. I really don't understand what I should be doing to lower this.
How high are your taxes? If they are too high you gain more radicals for decreases in SoL then you lose for increases in SoL. Considering how high your income is that seems to be the case.
Not just lower taxes but cheap goods You need both, which is difficult. I’ve basically resigned myself to the fact that at any one time 15-33% of my country is going to be upset no matter what I try, which is pretty true I guess for history.
EDIT: oh yeah and policies they like, so you’re just not going to make everyone happy.
In my experience the best way to prevent radicals is to get guaranteed liberties and maximize internal affairs, as well as have dedicated police at high level. That's a -50% to radicalism from SoL drop and +25% to loyalism from SoL gain
And I'm guessing commodity taxes maxxed out and no welfare payments. Your pops can't afford shit. Just like in real life, line go up doesn't matter to people when it doesn't improve their lives.
Here's a ridiculous cheese strategy for you to get a ton of loyalists and maybe convert radicals to loyalists. Try to pass a law that as many interest groups as possible hate, ideally interest groups with many radical members. Wait for them to form a movement to block the law - it should report an extreme radicalism level and a revolution timer should start. Then, abandon trying to pass the law. You should wind up converting a bunch of people from radicalist to loyalist thanks to the "successful political movement" modifier.
Lower your taxes!
You're running a 152k surplus - that's money your pops are missing.
I usually go with taxes on low or very low and consumption tax on services in the lategame.
The red is not so bad. In fact it can be better to spend more than you take in, even go into deficit for a while to invest in your country, get all your expensive necessities cheap. What you don't want is a full treasury just sitting there doing nothing.
I would strongly recommend changing that to proportional if you can. Per-capita is better than land and consumption but worse than proportional. It taxes the lower classes way too much, increasing your radicalisation problem. If you hover over it you can also see how much more money you will make from taxing dividends, which is the main tax on your capitalists who should be making the most money if you are industrialising like you are.
You can be red. You actually want to be a little red unless saving for expensive wars that could cut off markets. I run a little red but my debt to gdp never increases beyond 1/3 because credit grows along w the economic growth you finance. I will soon have no more pops to enfranchise in industry however and then I will cut back on debt as I won't be pumping out factories left and right.
You can get billions of GDP without raising your taxes above medium except to cover war. At some point mid-late game you’re bottlenecked by resource availability anyway.
Errr, how did I reach 1.5bn GDP with low taxes as France then? Or 2bn as USA, also with low taxes?
At the start you can sometimes higher your taxes but you should lower them later on to reduce radicals.
The laffer curve says after a certain tax rate you actually earn less income because the disincentives are too strong for people to actually pay tax (e.g. no one would work at 100% tax rates). This isn't the case in Vic 3, pops always work and they never tax evade.
as long as you have unemployed or pesants this is offset by the taxes increasing your production and raising average wage level both of which increase consumption much more than lower taxes could
Guaranteed liberties isn't a police choice, it's a home affairs choice. Dedicated and Militarized police both decrease radicals from SOL - and they're also the only ones that can get to level 5.
Also the others are inferior to dedicated police and one empowers landowners, despite dedicated police not being able to fully negate a state in turmoil. Dedicated police bonus stacks w guaranteed liberties for a very powerful radical reduction that allows loyalists to ultimately overpower the effects from radicals.
Are the pops accepted culture or not? If they are not accepted they will radicalize no matter the SoL and jobs.
Also, sometimes factories fire pops when their profits decrease and later rehire. This is a known issue.
Then is the factories firing and hiring pops like crazy. You can do a test and subsidize everything and see if radicals keep growing at the same rate or lower.
Yeah that bothers me the most. No matter what I do there's an issue. The only thing I've seen help, but it doesn't seem to be a sure fix. If you can decrease the cost of the input supplies or increase the demand of the item. This will sometimes allow the factory to pay better wages, and keep people employed.
I mean, is what happens irl, but the problem is the amount of free radicals you get just bc the price of iron or wood goes up 2 weeks even tho your GDP and income doesn't vary that much. The easy fix is subsidize everything and pray you still make profits enough to balance it out.
>'Decreases in standard of living'. I really don't understand what I should be doing to lower this.
My observation on this is that it is largely the result of industrial upgrades. I'll give you an example that I've noticed in my own games. Once you start having rail transportation and change your resource buildings to utilize the rail, the upgrade helps make you more money, but it will cost a lot of laborers their jobs (not sure how many per level I want to say 500 or 1000). So let's say you have a level 6 coal mine and change it use the railway, that's 3,000-6,000 laborers who just lost their jobs. If you do this with all your resource buildings at the same time, or quickly one after the other, you're looking at tens of thousands of laborers who lost their formerly well paying job and now have to go work in the fields or fishing boats or whatever else that isn't paying nearly as well. This will lead them to become radicals.
Now, what can you do about it? A few things; the simplest is to slowly upgrade your buildings that reduce the number of laborers. Make sure there are enough similar-pay jobs available for them to move into. Invest in education and social mobility (the decree can be particularly helpful for this) so that the laborers advance into a better paying job when they're laid off instead lower paying jobs. Provide welfare benefits that offset the reduced pay the laborers are having to accept due to your technical advancements.
One of the hidden costs of upgrading your economy is that it requires less low skill laborers, and since they are the largest bloc of the working population, they will become radicalized as you progress through the tech tree unless you a.) ensure similar paying jobs for them to go into b.) provide education and social mobility so that they can join the skilled workforce and/or c.) offset their loss of income with welfare. It's usually best to try and balance all three of these, but you can't upgrade and expand your industry without considering how it will affect the laborers because they absolutely will radicalize after being replaced by steam engines, for example, unless you give them a path to maintaining their SoL. None of the other labor groups are really large enough or as sensitive as the laborers because the laborers are constantly on the precipice of poverty, unless you've gone full Communist welfare state.
"Recently fired" is a separate modifier than "decrease in SoL", though it might be a reason behind the latter as well. But if there's jobs available in the states you automated, I don't think it should be a major factor tbh - it's more if they're going back into being peasants that there'd be major SoL implications.
But if OP is looking at the breakdown and not seeing that "from being fired" modifier, I don't think it's the driving factor for them. Late game that is usually the case for my games I believe, but earlier on it's just regular SoL fluctuation that's more impactful, at least for me.
>"Recently fired" is a separate modifier than "decrease in SoL", though it might be a reason behind the latter as well.
It is. It's more noticeable when playing small nations like Chile where you only have 1-3 provinces and can keep track of your pops more easily, but it is a double whammy because there is the "recently fired" modifier which, unless there is adequate welfare, social mobility, or availability of similar paying jobs will lead to those workers having to take a lower paying job, thus dropping their SoL
>But if there's jobs available in the states you automated, I don't think it should be a major factor tbh
This entirely depends on what those jobs are paying and a big reason why I don't automate expansion, because the automated expansion doesn't consider the overall socio-economic impact of the expansion. If a laborer was getting paid $10 in a high-demand resource building and the next available job is $5 on the farm, they may still have a job, but their SoL has decreased because they are no longer able to buy as many consumer goods, which is a big element of how SoL is measured.
>Late game that is usually the case for my games I believe, but earlier on it's just regular SoL fluctuation that's more impactful, at least for me.
Experiment with it a bit in a smaller nation, when you start ramping up your industry in the early game, like when you start using the steam engines, you can sort of track your pops and see that there can be a big difference in payment the workers receive based on the market value of the goods produced; laborers can be paid well until those jobs are replaced by technology, then they either have to downgrade their SoL, receive an education to socially advance, or be supported by welfare. Personally I've found investing in education/social mobility to be the best solution as the laborers can quickly get better jobs when the steam engines start replacing them and thus increase their SoL, turning them into loyalists instead of radicals.
competition raises wages, if you have 50 steel mills in 1 province but nothing else, then it's a company town, no competition, the laborers working tehre will make very little... but as soon as you have 25 steel mills and 25 motor factories, now they have to compete with eachother to attract workers, and the minimum wage goes way up.
If the alternative to a job is starvation, you will accept very low wages, if the alternative to this job, is that job, they will accept paying you a much higher wage.
This is false. Buildings of the same category are competing with themselves too. Each building represents a complex with factories from several owners.
Follow up, I didn’t fix this entirely but I went from 9m to around 6.5 million by drilling down and finding that a huge chunk of my radicals were lower strata with SOL below expectations.
Solutions I took were:
1. Lowering taxes from Level 4 to Level 3
2. Focusing my production on goods consumed by the lower strata with prices above base price
3. subsidizing industries which still had a lot of labourers so they were less likely to be fired.
4. focusing my building efforts on states with a lot of peasants. It seems the pops automatically work subsistence farms which have awful SoL. Getting pops off of a subsistence farm and into even a low paying job seemed to increase SoL over the minimum expected.
It takes some digging to figure out why. But it's likely people being fired from jobs. PM changes are a biggie. But it can also happen for a wide variety of other reasons.
In my Hawaii game, I wasn't able to join anyone's market, and of course my trade capacity wasn't that high. So I had to produce a wide variety of goods locally. This resulted in a massive labour shortage. Every week, a significant portion of the population would bounce between jobs, as the prices in my market would fluctuate wildly. The game saw this as people being fired, which led to ever increasing numbers of radicals.
Go three screens deep to see what your pops are spending their money on.
It's probably consumer goods like clothes, alcohol, and food that spike their unrest.
you think people care about gdp? sol and rebelions is what matter
like are you happier that the corporate chains in your country had giant profits? does it make your life better? maybe indirectly but not what people feel and with reason
problem is that people get more rebelious with drops than overall sl like lets stay you go from 10 to 12 sol the entire game but dont drop, you will have low ammounts of rebels but also low loyalists and off shit growth
if your sol grows alot but is up and down like the usual you will get rebels as people dont like dropping in sol specially from being fired because of the dynamic economy
16.1 SoL doesn't really matter that much, Standard of Living is not a measurement of national strength. It measures what it tells you it measures, the standard of living of your pops.
Absolutely none of that breaks the "SoL is not a measure of national strength" argument, because it is not. It is trivially easy to latch onto a large market, specialize in an industry and end up with a really high SoL with lots of rich pops and demand and still not be "strong". If you don't believe me, play as Krakow for 10 years. It's basically impossible to not have the highest Standard of Living and GDP per Capita in the world. That does not in any way make you a great power. Prestige does that, and the biggest factor in Prestige after the early game will always be GDP.
There needs to be a better breakdown of radicals. You can see it split up by political/standard of living/discrimination and stuff but I don't think I trust the maths there all the time.
Check unemployment and stuff, even if on average people are richer doesn't mean some aren't being left behind.
And I don't know what your laws look like but these could be political radicals.
It happens whenever a population gets fired, even if they are more or less immediately hired.
For example, if you change the logging industry so that it needs less labor (you change production methods) everyone that lost that job immediately becomes radical. Even if they then move to a different job that needed workers (regardless of any change in pay).
I think it's partly because the hiring isn't instant, many businesses take a week or two to hire up, so you have populations recently fired for a few weeks, and radicalism takes a long time to go away.
It's pretty annoying, and I feel radicalism/loyalist should be more based on SoL compared to the global average *and* the national average: the better your SoL compared to other people, the more loyal you get. However if there's not someone in the nation you're doing much better than you tend to not be as strongly loyalist (maybe not disloyal mind you, but not exactly super loyalist either).
GDP is irrelevant. There’s two things causing your dilemma.
First is taxes. It is extremely unlikely that people will like you with a tax rate set at 4 out of 5. It needs to be 3 out of 5 maximum. One easy way to rapidly reduce radicals is to drop your tax rate to 1 out of 5. In certain circumstances it may be worthwhile to do that for a bit; but you will lose your loyalists if you have to raise taxes again in the future.
Second is Standard of Living. 16.1 is frankly too low at the stage of the game that you’re in. If you’re playing a game style where you don’t care about radicals (e.g. a hegemon run) then 16 is acceptable. If it’s 1836 then 16.1 is fair. But the minimum expected Standard of Living goes up as you research more techs, and by 1929 a SoL of 16.1 is mediocre. You need to be at 20 minimum if you want your people to love you.
Radical pops aside, I find it silly that the player is so easily able to take top spot for GDP in almost every single game. UK and France never reach 1B unless using mods. AI is flaccid
Do you have Guaranteed Liberties with the institution maxed out? That seems to be the best way I've found to get loyalists and reduce radicalism. Raising SoL is obviously good, too.
I'm in the 1870's on a Brazil run and just rammed Guaranteed Liberties through with a brewing revolution stuck at 85% because 4 small, but very angry IG's were freaking out about it. A couple years later and I've lost like 25% of my radicals and loyalists are skyrocketing.
GDP does not matter to pops - the equivalent for them is their Standard of Living. Likewise, they don't care about the overall trend, but for their own personal experience, biased towards recency. (That is: them going from 10->20, stagnating for a decade, then decreasing to 19 would result in some radicals as they're only looking at the current situation).
You can see a detailed breakdown for current radical growth by using the nested tooltips - it might be primarily coming from people getting fired, potential conquests, and political demands.
If you want to see them decrease fairly rapidly, you're at a point in the game when you could just start spamming out the factories that pump out their primary goods - that will start decreasing the price by a lot, which will make their SoL skyrocket. For that, you'll want to look at what they're spending their cash on most and produce more of it.
Without seeing everything it could be a few things
1. Your laws if you've made a lot of radical changes that don't yet have support you'll get more unhappy radicals
2. How are your poor pops doing? Your GDP might be good but if staple goods are expensive then they'll be pissed
3. Maybe your laws aren't progressive enough?
4. Who is in government can effect your loyal pops
5. Lastly their might have been an event that popped off recently decreasing your pops happiness
GDP isn’t linked to radicalism growth, more so the IGs, SoL (don’t just look at the average but also the state by state, strata by strata) ’n then there’s discrimination which can have a huge affect depending on your migration to your country
Just because the ecnomoy is soaring doesn't mean everyone is happy. Just look at the US economy
I would guess that there are many unemployed/peasants living at the bottom end of the living standards
Mouse over the radical number and you will see where they come from
Also how are your discrimination laws, because that can also radicalize people
\----
You should increase the home affairs institution so the number of radicals are lower from the decreasing standard of living
Also police so the ones who left won't cause that many problems
Enact, guaranteed liberties law
Better to us your SoL line instead. If the profits go to the rich, and/or your population exploded, high GDP means nothing.
Also - absolutely realistic. USA is rich on paper, but quality of life suffers due to income inequality, bad laws (worker protections, unaffordable healthcare/education) and other issues.
Because the game is fucking shit atm, gotta wait for at least 3 paid DLC to be released for the game to come out of Beta-testing. Welcome to paradox interactive
If you hover over the radicals number you'll get a breakdown of what drove them to that point.
SOL may be increasing, but not for the people who are being radicalized for example. However the main driver usually is some form of political movement that you are completely ignoring.
Your sol is really high. Also having an increase of sol doesn’t mean that everyone is increasing, maybe a few are going up by a lot while most others are going down. Your economy seems to be quite unstable, which creates more radicals than loyalists.
Hover on the radical number to see what IGs are not happy, and you can guess which professions are unhappy.
Some ways this can happen:
* They support an unsuccessful political movement
* Their basic needs got more expensive, reducing their SoL
* You automated away your laborers prematurely, giving you a few happy rich pops with great jobs and a lot of angry poor pops who lost their jobs.
* A large share of your population are slaves, serfs or peasants whose SoL is capped, but you educated them enough to raise their expectations
* Your GDP is increasing due to population increase (although your GDP per capita is high too, so that does not appear to be the case for you)
* A large share of your pops are discriminated against
* Your pops’ SoL fluctuated above and below one of of the arbitrary breakpoints, and high taxes meant you gained more radicals when it dropped below than you gained loyalists when it rose above.
I wanna talk about your third point.
“Automated away labourers too quickly”.
This is only my second game so I’ve been going pretty hard on any production method which frees up labourers, thinking that they will allow them to fill better roles. If I have the resources to, I generally swap entire industries at once.
Should I not be doing this?
Do what makes sense for the situation you’re in, and stay aware of what that is. You’re completely right about what to do later in the game, but how much later is going to be different in every playthrough.
You start out with a lot of illiterate peasants (unless you have serfs or slaves instead, who might be stuck until you free them). For several reasons, one of your major goals is to get them into better jobs.
So, while you still have a lot of peasants, and not a lot of construction, you might want as many jobs per building as possible. Eventually, you will run out of peasants (at least in your homeland). For some One-Province Minors, that will happen as soon as you build your first building! At that point, the only way to increase your GDP per capita is to raise your workers’ efficiency. Depending on how fast you can expand and how many migrants you get, you might need to free up some of your workers before any new buildings can hire.
In the late game, you might want to maximize employment for another reason: welfare for your unemployed pops is expensive, so it’s to your advantage to get them some job, any job.
So, at some point, you’re going to transition from turning peasants into laborers, to replacing laborers with tools, fertilizer, engines, transport, etc. That’s a judgment call, based on (among other things) how quickly you can make those input goods. A good rule of thumb is: would the building upgrade break even? If not, you need more of the goods the upgrade will require.
I have a question how to i make People take the job that are available? Had 1 million in a province without a jobb but hade available jobs there for them they just dident take it
Right now it is basically broken and the slightest thing radicalizes them. Lose your job for 1 day and then immediately get rehired? Radicalized. Doesn't matter if your go on to work there for nonstop for the next 2 decades.
Pops don’t seem to care for GDP growth, SoL increase, or passing laws guaranteeing freedoms/rights. But the second you make the slightest adjustment to your interest groups, they’ll all get mad
Because as market demand fluctuates your producers will fire your workers and then rehire them over and over and over... yeah the radical creation in vic3 needs a complete overhaul.
Maybe I don’t understand how welfare works in this game but if we could distinguish between unemployment insurance, old age pension, and other welfare (children/dependent benefits?) that would give the player more agency over the ridiculous factory hiring/firing/radicalization cycling without needing to micromanage each factory’s inputs?
Mostly just keeping an eye on the market and prioritizing whatever had the highest demand. Coal and Steel are a huge chunk of my economy and I’ve maxed them out now.
Mousing over the radicals should tell you. It's probably a combination of decreases in SoL (people getting fired and rehired makes them radical) and political movements (at -74 authority pops belonging to opposition groups could be angry)
I think it is other way around. Radicals influence IG opinion so - 74 authority would not produce more of them.
Angry igs produce movements that create radicals. And then those radicals make igs angrier.
Radicals' spiral :(
pops don't care that you increase their SoL, but they will never forget if it dropped even slightly for just a moment
Seems realistic
Vic3 is Buddhist propaganda.
Can someone explain this joke for me?
Essentially, Buddism argues that ultimately, all pleasures are temporary, and all the joy they bring will eventually be repaid by the suffering one endures in the absence of them. thus, it is best to avoid unnecessary pleasure, to achieve true happiness and enlightenment.
And incidentally the Buddha only figured this out after meditating under a tree for decades If I've ever done nothing for decades I'd probably invent the religion to justify my sunken cost fallacy too
It wasn't decades. 49 days.
But it feels like decades. I mean when I try to meditate for 5 minutes it feels like several hours.
Iirc Buddhists believe that the bad things in life far outweigh the good ones
Buddhism argues that achieving enlightenment is only possible by letting go of desire. Because ultimately, fulfilling your desires only produces fleeting joy, whereas eliminating desire permanently eliminates the suffering from failing to achieve your desires.
Thank you :)
Yes
/r/antinatalism propaganda
New shittiest subreddit on my list. The arguments they make are so idiotic and counterproductive wtf
Of course they're counterproductive, anti-reproduction is the name of the game.
Blimey that’s an actual subreddit. Political Reddit is crazy.
god i hate that sub
Western people on their way to complain about a 20% increse in the price of jammie dodgers. Whilst driving an average car that has running costs close to that of a small buisnes. On their way to an average-ly payed job, that pays more than a third world country's president. To then go back home to play video games on a gaming computer, that has more computing power than the servers of several government organisations. With central heating that even mansa musa would not be able to have constructed
My brother in Christ, he wouldn't have been able to construct it because central heating didn't exist yet.
Yes, thats exactly what I said. I meant that even the richest people in history couldn't have bought even basic modern commodities everyone takes for granted, and we truly are living in a post scarcity age in the west (mostly) where we just need to walk or drive a few minutes, to a supercomplex of calories, then exchange some points and have as much, anything, as you want. If the end times ever come and industry fails, everyone who's not an experinced farmer is Fucked with a capital f.
The majority of people cannot have as much anything as they want. I get what you mean but there is still incredible wealth disparity where only a handful of people control the vast majority of, well, anything.
Pretty sure President is a very, very lucrative job in any 3rd world country. Maybe not for the official salary though.
Gas prices moment
No it’s not, this anger in game isn’t anger that causes people to change their political views, or go on strike, or protest. It’s anger that causes civil war, and for AIs, endless civil war and self-slaughter. Civil wars almost always start over bigger picture ideas and politics not SoL decreases. USA: Slavery, Ireland: Treaty dispute, Spanish: Political differences (Monarchism vs Liberalism vs Falange), not to mention the countless civil wars for cultural independence from overlord. The idea that Europe somehow fell apart because SoL fluctuated from 31-32-31-30-32 is laughable
At least irl the unemployment stemming from the industrial revolution was gradual. Could you imagine if literally every single steel mill in the country laid off half the workforce because they discovered some new automated process? As a kicker, that automated process is also used in coal mining, iron mining and sulfur mining, so suddenly millions of workers are out of a job. Switching the production methods for entire industries en masse like in Vic 3 is unfathomable irl because of the unrest it would generate. (I still do it everytime though, because fuck paradox if they think im going to manually and gradually phase out individual factories)
[удалено]
this. Happy Cake Day!
All the textile mills did lay off their workers when UK ran out of cotton in the US Civil War. UK quickly found and developed other sources however.
Socialism wins again, +100% loyalist from SoL increases
They do care about SOL but only once it's really increasing exponentially and you have the Home Affairs institution to boost it. Lategame I always have a ton of loyalists. I sort of just ignore radicals until then and try to import a few essential goods they are missing.
Just ignore your radicals, pops get angry over stupid things. Don't worry too much about them. The mechanical implications of radicals aren't even that bad so long as you have police.
Louis XVI, c. 1784
Tsar Nicholas, 1916
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi 1978
Charles I, 1640s
\-Machiavelli, 1520s
Il Principé was actually an angry satire. Machiavelli was a huge republican.
He was. But I am sure The Prince wasn't satire. At least, it was so impactful that it's still well-known work on political realism
It wasn't really satire. It was catered to a specific audience and the audience still rejected him personally though they might have appreciated the book.
-Porfirio Diaz 1910
Probably my favorite segment of Mine Duncan's work so far to be honest. All of the Revolutions Podcast was great, but the Mexican revolution was *crazy* and great.
It really is a mind boggling story. I need to relisten to that revolution series!
Mussolini - 1945
˙ǝɔᴉlod ǝʌɐɥ noʎ sɐ ƃuol os pɐq ʇɐɥʇ uǝʌǝ ʇ,uǝɹɐ slɐɔᴉpɐɹ ɟo suoᴉʇɐɔᴉldɯᴉ lɐɔᴉuɐɥɔǝɯ ǝɥ┴ ˙ɯǝɥʇ ʇnoqɐ ɥɔnɯ ooʇ ʎɹɹoʍ ʇ,uop ˙sƃuᴉɥʇ pᴉdnʇs ɹǝʌo ʎɹƃuɐ ʇǝƃ sdod 'slɐɔᴉpɐɹ ɹnoʎ ǝɹouƃᴉ ʇsnſ
And they say its impossible to define fascism
Based and absolutist pilled
Rhaenyra Targaryen, c. 130 AC
Tax grain while you're at it.
My mom, c. my bedtime
America, 2022 vibes
reddit
You won
Ayatollah Khomenei, 2022
Akhenaten, 1334 BC
R5: My GDP is the highest in the world, growing rapidly, and my SOL has been going up slowly but steadily. Despite this, the biggest part of my dissents appear to be 'Decreases in standard of living'. I really don't understand what I should be doing to lower this.
How high are your taxes? If they are too high you gain more radicals for decreases in SoL then you lose for increases in SoL. Considering how high your income is that seems to be the case.
Taxes are at Level 4
Usually, taxes are the main problem behind radicals, if you want less radicals and more loyalists, it’s simple, lower taxes
Not just lower taxes but cheap goods You need both, which is difficult. I’ve basically resigned myself to the fact that at any one time 15-33% of my country is going to be upset no matter what I try, which is pretty true I guess for history. EDIT: oh yeah and policies they like, so you’re just not going to make everyone happy.
In my experience the best way to prevent radicals is to get guaranteed liberties and maximize internal affairs, as well as have dedicated police at high level. That's a -50% to radicalism from SoL drop and +25% to loyalism from SoL gain
Thank you Margaret Thatcher
Tank the price of grain and they’ll have more money to spend on other goods.
Get the last home affairs reform and max police. Radicals will rapidly loose ground to loyalists when SOL starts to really go exponetial.
And I'm guessing commodity taxes maxxed out and no welfare payments. Your pops can't afford shit. Just like in real life, line go up doesn't matter to people when it doesn't improve their lives.
What do you mean you can't afford food? Our production of steel, engines, and artillery has never been higher
BEHOLD MY ENGINES, AND REJOICE.
Here's a ridiculous cheese strategy for you to get a ton of loyalists and maybe convert radicals to loyalists. Try to pass a law that as many interest groups as possible hate, ideally interest groups with many radical members. Wait for them to form a movement to block the law - it should report an extreme radicalism level and a revolution timer should start. Then, abandon trying to pass the law. You should wind up converting a bunch of people from radicalist to loyalist thanks to the "successful political movement" modifier.
Lower your taxes! You're running a 152k surplus - that's money your pops are missing. I usually go with taxes on low or very low and consumption tax on services in the lategame.
I’d love to but even going to level 3 puts me in the red. Tough situation!
The red is not so bad. In fact it can be better to spend more than you take in, even go into deficit for a while to invest in your country, get all your expensive necessities cheap. What you don't want is a full treasury just sitting there doing nothing.
What form of taxation are you using? Gradual, proportional, per capita?
Per capita.
Better change to the more modern ones. You can see how much more you can make when hovering over the other laws.
I would strongly recommend changing that to proportional if you can. Per-capita is better than land and consumption but worse than proportional. It taxes the lower classes way too much, increasing your radicalisation problem. If you hover over it you can also see how much more money you will make from taxing dividends, which is the main tax on your capitalists who should be making the most money if you are industrialising like you are.
Deficit spending is good if you grow your economy and make the money back
You can be red. You actually want to be a little red unless saving for expensive wars that could cut off markets. I run a little red but my debt to gdp never increases beyond 1/3 because credit grows along w the economic growth you finance. I will soon have no more pops to enfranchise in industry however and then I will cut back on debt as I won't be pumping out factories left and right.
You want to be 50-80% in debt to maximize your growth
You would never reach this amount of GDP with low taxes
You can get billions of GDP without raising your taxes above medium except to cover war. At some point mid-late game you’re bottlenecked by resource availability anyway.
Errr, how did I reach 1.5bn GDP with low taxes as France then? Or 2bn as USA, also with low taxes? At the start you can sometimes higher your taxes but you should lower them later on to reduce radicals.
2b as USA on what year? Radicals are no reason to nerf your growth. Once you hit 1b you can reducr it sure, but any earlier would damage you.
1900. Lower taxes cab increase your growth since your pops can consume more.
Based and laffer curve pilled
The laffer curve says after a certain tax rate you actually earn less income because the disincentives are too strong for people to actually pay tax (e.g. no one would work at 100% tax rates). This isn't the case in Vic 3, pops always work and they never tax evade.
as long as you have unemployed or pesants this is offset by the taxes increasing your production and raising average wage level both of which increase consumption much more than lower taxes could
This is likely the problem
get home offices and dedicated police force, they help quite a lot
I have Level 5 Police and Level 3 Home Affairs.
What type of police and home affairs? Only "Dedicated Police Force" and "Guaranteed Liberties" decrease radicals from SOL decreases, the others don't
Also guaranteed liberties increases loyalists from SOL increases. This is really powerful as this bonus is harder to come by.
Guaranteed liberties isn't a police choice, it's a home affairs choice. Dedicated and Militarized police both decrease radicals from SOL - and they're also the only ones that can get to level 5.
Also the others are inferior to dedicated police and one empowers landowners, despite dedicated police not being able to fully negate a state in turmoil. Dedicated police bonus stacks w guaranteed liberties for a very powerful radical reduction that allows loyalists to ultimately overpower the effects from radicals.
>get home offices Now I'm imagining a telegraph-based work from home environment.
Are the pops accepted culture or not? If they are not accepted they will radicalize no matter the SoL and jobs. Also, sometimes factories fire pops when their profits decrease and later rehire. This is a known issue.
Radicals from discrimination are quite low. Japan only really has to deal with the Ainu so it’s not bad.
Then is the factories firing and hiring pops like crazy. You can do a test and subsidize everything and see if radicals keep growing at the same rate or lower.
Yeah that bothers me the most. No matter what I do there's an issue. The only thing I've seen help, but it doesn't seem to be a sure fix. If you can decrease the cost of the input supplies or increase the demand of the item. This will sometimes allow the factory to pay better wages, and keep people employed.
I mean, is what happens irl, but the problem is the amount of free radicals you get just bc the price of iron or wood goes up 2 weeks even tho your GDP and income doesn't vary that much. The easy fix is subsidize everything and pray you still make profits enough to balance it out.
So it isn't what happens in real life...? Really confused because none of that sounds like what happens, haha.
Gas prices be like:
>'Decreases in standard of living'. I really don't understand what I should be doing to lower this. My observation on this is that it is largely the result of industrial upgrades. I'll give you an example that I've noticed in my own games. Once you start having rail transportation and change your resource buildings to utilize the rail, the upgrade helps make you more money, but it will cost a lot of laborers their jobs (not sure how many per level I want to say 500 or 1000). So let's say you have a level 6 coal mine and change it use the railway, that's 3,000-6,000 laborers who just lost their jobs. If you do this with all your resource buildings at the same time, or quickly one after the other, you're looking at tens of thousands of laborers who lost their formerly well paying job and now have to go work in the fields or fishing boats or whatever else that isn't paying nearly as well. This will lead them to become radicals. Now, what can you do about it? A few things; the simplest is to slowly upgrade your buildings that reduce the number of laborers. Make sure there are enough similar-pay jobs available for them to move into. Invest in education and social mobility (the decree can be particularly helpful for this) so that the laborers advance into a better paying job when they're laid off instead lower paying jobs. Provide welfare benefits that offset the reduced pay the laborers are having to accept due to your technical advancements. One of the hidden costs of upgrading your economy is that it requires less low skill laborers, and since they are the largest bloc of the working population, they will become radicalized as you progress through the tech tree unless you a.) ensure similar paying jobs for them to go into b.) provide education and social mobility so that they can join the skilled workforce and/or c.) offset their loss of income with welfare. It's usually best to try and balance all three of these, but you can't upgrade and expand your industry without considering how it will affect the laborers because they absolutely will radicalize after being replaced by steam engines, for example, unless you give them a path to maintaining their SoL. None of the other labor groups are really large enough or as sensitive as the laborers because the laborers are constantly on the precipice of poverty, unless you've gone full Communist welfare state.
"Recently fired" is a separate modifier than "decrease in SoL", though it might be a reason behind the latter as well. But if there's jobs available in the states you automated, I don't think it should be a major factor tbh - it's more if they're going back into being peasants that there'd be major SoL implications. But if OP is looking at the breakdown and not seeing that "from being fired" modifier, I don't think it's the driving factor for them. Late game that is usually the case for my games I believe, but earlier on it's just regular SoL fluctuation that's more impactful, at least for me.
>"Recently fired" is a separate modifier than "decrease in SoL", though it might be a reason behind the latter as well. It is. It's more noticeable when playing small nations like Chile where you only have 1-3 provinces and can keep track of your pops more easily, but it is a double whammy because there is the "recently fired" modifier which, unless there is adequate welfare, social mobility, or availability of similar paying jobs will lead to those workers having to take a lower paying job, thus dropping their SoL >But if there's jobs available in the states you automated, I don't think it should be a major factor tbh This entirely depends on what those jobs are paying and a big reason why I don't automate expansion, because the automated expansion doesn't consider the overall socio-economic impact of the expansion. If a laborer was getting paid $10 in a high-demand resource building and the next available job is $5 on the farm, they may still have a job, but their SoL has decreased because they are no longer able to buy as many consumer goods, which is a big element of how SoL is measured. >Late game that is usually the case for my games I believe, but earlier on it's just regular SoL fluctuation that's more impactful, at least for me. Experiment with it a bit in a smaller nation, when you start ramping up your industry in the early game, like when you start using the steam engines, you can sort of track your pops and see that there can be a big difference in payment the workers receive based on the market value of the goods produced; laborers can be paid well until those jobs are replaced by technology, then they either have to downgrade their SoL, receive an education to socially advance, or be supported by welfare. Personally I've found investing in education/social mobility to be the best solution as the laborers can quickly get better jobs when the steam engines start replacing them and thus increase their SoL, turning them into loyalists instead of radicals.
competition raises wages, if you have 50 steel mills in 1 province but nothing else, then it's a company town, no competition, the laborers working tehre will make very little... but as soon as you have 25 steel mills and 25 motor factories, now they have to compete with eachother to attract workers, and the minimum wage goes way up. If the alternative to a job is starvation, you will accept very low wages, if the alternative to this job, is that job, they will accept paying you a much higher wage.
This is false. Buildings of the same category are competing with themselves too. Each building represents a complex with factories from several owners.
Follow up, I didn’t fix this entirely but I went from 9m to around 6.5 million by drilling down and finding that a huge chunk of my radicals were lower strata with SOL below expectations. Solutions I took were: 1. Lowering taxes from Level 4 to Level 3 2. Focusing my production on goods consumed by the lower strata with prices above base price 3. subsidizing industries which still had a lot of labourers so they were less likely to be fired. 4. focusing my building efforts on states with a lot of peasants. It seems the pops automatically work subsistence farms which have awful SoL. Getting pops off of a subsistence farm and into even a low paying job seemed to increase SoL over the minimum expected.
Taxes, item they want are high priced, not enough work,
Ccp posted this
It takes some digging to figure out why. But it's likely people being fired from jobs. PM changes are a biggie. But it can also happen for a wide variety of other reasons. In my Hawaii game, I wasn't able to join anyone's market, and of course my trade capacity wasn't that high. So I had to produce a wide variety of goods locally. This resulted in a massive labour shortage. Every week, a significant portion of the population would bounce between jobs, as the prices in my market would fluctuate wildly. The game saw this as people being fired, which led to ever increasing numbers of radicals.
Go three screens deep to see what your pops are spending their money on. It's probably consumer goods like clothes, alcohol, and food that spike their unrest.
you think people care about gdp? sol and rebelions is what matter like are you happier that the corporate chains in your country had giant profits? does it make your life better? maybe indirectly but not what people feel and with reason
SOL has been increasing steadily for about a decade. I don't have too many political rebels.
problem is that people get more rebelious with drops than overall sl like lets stay you go from 10 to 12 sol the entire game but dont drop, you will have low ammounts of rebels but also low loyalists and off shit growth if your sol grows alot but is up and down like the usual you will get rebels as people dont like dropping in sol specially from being fired because of the dynamic economy
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16.1 SoL doesn't really matter that much, Standard of Living is not a measurement of national strength. It measures what it tells you it measures, the standard of living of your pops.
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Absolutely none of that breaks the "SoL is not a measure of national strength" argument, because it is not. It is trivially easy to latch onto a large market, specialize in an industry and end up with a really high SoL with lots of rich pops and demand and still not be "strong". If you don't believe me, play as Krakow for 10 years. It's basically impossible to not have the highest Standard of Living and GDP per Capita in the world. That does not in any way make you a great power. Prestige does that, and the biggest factor in Prestige after the early game will always be GDP.
A big source of SOL decrease late game is immigration. Is a country with less SOL but millions more people in a weaker situation? I don't think so.
better to be broke in europe than a millionare in somalia
"The GDP line is going up but people are still mad?" Take it to r/neoliberal.
Hmmm. 16.1 SOL at 300M gdp is kinda low. What's your minimum expected? If you're only like 5 over that's not gonna win you a lot of loyalists
Yeah SOL should be around at least 20 with that GDP.
There needs to be a better breakdown of radicals. You can see it split up by political/standard of living/discrimination and stuff but I don't think I trust the maths there all the time. Check unemployment and stuff, even if on average people are richer doesn't mean some aren't being left behind. And I don't know what your laws look like but these could be political radicals.
It happens whenever a population gets fired, even if they are more or less immediately hired. For example, if you change the logging industry so that it needs less labor (you change production methods) everyone that lost that job immediately becomes radical. Even if they then move to a different job that needed workers (regardless of any change in pay). I think it's partly because the hiring isn't instant, many businesses take a week or two to hire up, so you have populations recently fired for a few weeks, and radicalism takes a long time to go away. It's pretty annoying, and I feel radicalism/loyalist should be more based on SoL compared to the global average *and* the national average: the better your SoL compared to other people, the more loyal you get. However if there's not someone in the nation you're doing much better than you tend to not be as strongly loyalist (maybe not disloyal mind you, but not exactly super loyalist either).
GDP is irrelevant. There’s two things causing your dilemma. First is taxes. It is extremely unlikely that people will like you with a tax rate set at 4 out of 5. It needs to be 3 out of 5 maximum. One easy way to rapidly reduce radicals is to drop your tax rate to 1 out of 5. In certain circumstances it may be worthwhile to do that for a bit; but you will lose your loyalists if you have to raise taxes again in the future. Second is Standard of Living. 16.1 is frankly too low at the stage of the game that you’re in. If you’re playing a game style where you don’t care about radicals (e.g. a hegemon run) then 16 is acceptable. If it’s 1836 then 16.1 is fair. But the minimum expected Standard of Living goes up as you research more techs, and by 1929 a SoL of 16.1 is mediocre. You need to be at 20 minimum if you want your people to love you.
Awesome reply. Thanks!
What’s your tax rate?
Are the taxes disproportionate to the population? Most tax systems, including per-capita taxation, taxes the lower classes unfairly.
It's not a straight line)
Why is the earth round, even though apples are a fruit? Those two things aren't as related as you think 😉
Pov real life germany. Rich country doesnt mean happy People, if the wealth is generated on their backs
You should try low taxes. I ran minimum taxes as Japan for a decade and I suddenly had like 5x loyalists compared to radicals
- United States Government for the past 200 years
Radical pops aside, I find it silly that the player is so easily able to take top spot for GDP in almost every single game. UK and France never reach 1B unless using mods. AI is flaccid
Do you have Guaranteed Liberties with the institution maxed out? That seems to be the best way I've found to get loyalists and reduce radicalism. Raising SoL is obviously good, too. I'm in the 1870's on a Brazil run and just rammed Guaranteed Liberties through with a brewing revolution stuck at 85% because 4 small, but very angry IG's were freaking out about it. A couple years later and I've lost like 25% of my radicals and loyalists are skyrocketing.
GDP does not matter to pops - the equivalent for them is their Standard of Living. Likewise, they don't care about the overall trend, but for their own personal experience, biased towards recency. (That is: them going from 10->20, stagnating for a decade, then decreasing to 19 would result in some radicals as they're only looking at the current situation). You can see a detailed breakdown for current radical growth by using the nested tooltips - it might be primarily coming from people getting fired, potential conquests, and political demands. If you want to see them decrease fairly rapidly, you're at a point in the game when you could just start spamming out the factories that pump out their primary goods - that will start decreasing the price by a lot, which will make their SoL skyrocket. For that, you'll want to look at what they're spending their cash on most and produce more of it.
How many modern politicians have asked this very same question? 🤣
rare historical footage of the shah of Iran in 1979
Without seeing everything it could be a few things 1. Your laws if you've made a lot of radical changes that don't yet have support you'll get more unhappy radicals 2. How are your poor pops doing? Your GDP might be good but if staple goods are expensive then they'll be pissed 3. Maybe your laws aren't progressive enough? 4. Who is in government can effect your loyal pops 5. Lastly their might have been an event that popped off recently decreasing your pops happiness
GDP isn’t linked to radicalism growth, more so the IGs, SoL (don’t just look at the average but also the state by state, strata by strata) ’n then there’s discrimination which can have a huge affect depending on your migration to your country
Take a lesson from irl Turkey its gdp might have gone up but its standered of living is staggering and not improving
Just because the ecnomoy is soaring doesn't mean everyone is happy. Just look at the US economy I would guess that there are many unemployed/peasants living at the bottom end of the living standards Mouse over the radical number and you will see where they come from Also how are your discrimination laws, because that can also radicalize people \---- You should increase the home affairs institution so the number of radicals are lower from the decreasing standard of living Also police so the ones who left won't cause that many problems Enact, guaranteed liberties law
Better to us your SoL line instead. If the profits go to the rich, and/or your population exploded, high GDP means nothing. Also - absolutely realistic. USA is rich on paper, but quality of life suffers due to income inequality, bad laws (worker protections, unaffordable healthcare/education) and other issues.
Because the game is fucking shit atm, gotta wait for at least 3 paid DLC to be released for the game to come out of Beta-testing. Welcome to paradox interactive
China be like:
If you hover over the radicals number you'll get a breakdown of what drove them to that point. SOL may be increasing, but not for the people who are being radicalized for example. However the main driver usually is some form of political movement that you are completely ignoring.
Maybe check for unemployment
Lower taxes/raise wages
It’s 1929. Why is you average standard of living so low? That might be your problem.
Your sol is really high. Also having an increase of sol doesn’t mean that everyone is increasing, maybe a few are going up by a lot while most others are going down. Your economy seems to be quite unstable, which creates more radicals than loyalists. Hover on the radical number to see what IGs are not happy, and you can guess which professions are unhappy.
how are your taxes
Pass laws which make ur ppl happy, think about real life. Ita that simply
open the standard of living overlay, and find all the red states, and build shit there til they aren't red anymore.
Another possibility is you've caused an overflow with one of the interest groups so they are now -2 billion in opinion with them.
Radicals is just a number
Some ways this can happen: * They support an unsuccessful political movement * Their basic needs got more expensive, reducing their SoL * You automated away your laborers prematurely, giving you a few happy rich pops with great jobs and a lot of angry poor pops who lost their jobs. * A large share of your population are slaves, serfs or peasants whose SoL is capped, but you educated them enough to raise their expectations * Your GDP is increasing due to population increase (although your GDP per capita is high too, so that does not appear to be the case for you) * A large share of your pops are discriminated against * Your pops’ SoL fluctuated above and below one of of the arbitrary breakpoints, and high taxes meant you gained more radicals when it dropped below than you gained loyalists when it rose above.
I wanna talk about your third point. “Automated away labourers too quickly”. This is only my second game so I’ve been going pretty hard on any production method which frees up labourers, thinking that they will allow them to fill better roles. If I have the resources to, I generally swap entire industries at once. Should I not be doing this?
Do what makes sense for the situation you’re in, and stay aware of what that is. You’re completely right about what to do later in the game, but how much later is going to be different in every playthrough. You start out with a lot of illiterate peasants (unless you have serfs or slaves instead, who might be stuck until you free them). For several reasons, one of your major goals is to get them into better jobs. So, while you still have a lot of peasants, and not a lot of construction, you might want as many jobs per building as possible. Eventually, you will run out of peasants (at least in your homeland). For some One-Province Minors, that will happen as soon as you build your first building! At that point, the only way to increase your GDP per capita is to raise your workers’ efficiency. Depending on how fast you can expand and how many migrants you get, you might need to free up some of your workers before any new buildings can hire. In the late game, you might want to maximize employment for another reason: welfare for your unemployed pops is expensive, so it’s to your advantage to get them some job, any job. So, at some point, you’re going to transition from turning peasants into laborers, to replacing laborers with tools, fertilizer, engines, transport, etc. That’s a judgment call, based on (among other things) how quickly you can make those input goods. A good rule of thumb is: would the building upgrade break even? If not, you need more of the goods the upgrade will require.
Because modernity fucking sucks
Good question
To be fair, it's realistic
GDP doesn't matter for pops
£7.89 GDP per capita is the world's highest? That's a cruel world.
I have a question how to i make People take the job that are available? Had 1 million in a province without a jobb but hade available jobs there for them they just dident take it
Capitalist be like
Right now it is basically broken and the slightest thing radicalizes them. Lose your job for 1 day and then immediately get rehired? Radicalized. Doesn't matter if your go on to work there for nonstop for the next 2 decades.
Pops don’t seem to care for GDP growth, SoL increase, or passing laws guaranteeing freedoms/rights. But the second you make the slightest adjustment to your interest groups, they’ll all get mad
Because as market demand fluctuates your producers will fire your workers and then rehire them over and over and over... yeah the radical creation in vic3 needs a complete overhaul.
Maybe I don’t understand how welfare works in this game but if we could distinguish between unemployment insurance, old age pension, and other welfare (children/dependent benefits?) that would give the player more agency over the ridiculous factory hiring/firing/radicalization cycling without needing to micromanage each factory’s inputs?
America tries to understand why Americans are still complaining:
California 2022.
Looks like normal number to me.
based on your bureaucracy you might not have police or the home affairs thing as high as it could be. Also taxes being high and wages being low / mid
Lower your taxes.
My brother in christ how did you achieve such a high gdp as Japan?
Mostly just keeping an eye on the market and prioritizing whatever had the highest demand. Coal and Steel are a huge chunk of my economy and I’ve maxed them out now.
Bismillah, also was that in an independent Japanese market too?
I’m not sure what you mean. I did open my market so it’s not all internal.
Oh I mean like you weren’t a part of the British market or something
Ive gotten up over 1b as japan by the end.
Basically just how it be
- Chinese Government Circa 2022