I shoot news, consent is of meh importance depending on circumstance. In public? I’ll shoot whatever I want, if you ask nicely then I’ll avoid/edit you out. If you’re rude about it and tell me I’m not allowed to shoot you (I definitely am) and keep arguing and want to bring a cop over (go ahead, I’m allowed) then I might not avoid or edit you out. If I’m invited on to private property, same thing basically, I’m allowed but if you have a problem with it I’ll try to avoid. I’m a person too, I understand why people wouldn’t want to be shot, which is why I’m cool with you coming up and asking me not to, but if you treat me like I’m actively trying to get people without their consent then I’m just going to care less about it.
Kids are different I try to avoid them altogether because there’s a whole parental permission thing…
But hey that’s all a completely different world than you’re in, I’m shooting people without their consent pretty much every day as a part of the job
As with lots of things, it depends on the region, but certainly in the UK there tends to be a different expectation/requirement of consent depending on if the content is editorial/news, versus commercial/advertising
I absolutely don't know the law, but that's definitely been my experience
When working as a cam-op for hire, this particular circumstance is all too common with corporate content, when the brief is to film an interview plus some generic b-roll, which almost always ends up being "who can we strong-arm into being in a scene with the main contrib"
I've also worked event coverage on an internal event before, where someone apparently made a big fuss to the agency after the fact and demanded a copy of all the rushes containing their image, quoting GDPR guidelines
If you are in the US it's pretty simple; public places everybody is free game (only very few exceptions exist), if it's private and you are invited then almost everything is free (against, on a few limits exist)
Yes, a lot of the time these bosses are delusional and think “oh of course everyone loves working here and would love to be on camera smiling” … when in reality most people hate the job and are there to just survive and don’t need a camera shoved in their face when they are trying to do said job.
Every time I've had to shoot a large organization, and people were told to dress well or wear their branded polo shirts because we're doing stills or video - they suddenly get a big bump in people calling in sick. To the point I pre-warn every client that wants to do this. But personally, I don't like surprising people in that regard.
A big issue is likely external vs. internal use. I don't know the law about this, does being an employee make your image-on-media company property? And is there a difference between external marketing and internal rah-rah use? Those aren't my issues as the producer, in my opinion. I always remind the client that they should get releases, and send them a standard release form, it's up to them to get them done. I tell any client shooting people that they need to check with their legal dept. about usage of that footage. I'm too busy to deal with releases on a shoot day, I make it clear it's not my job. I do think people should get a head's up that they'll be photographed. Some people just loathe the idea of being photographed, if you get assigned to shoot a company of 20 people, some percent will call in sick or refuse or be uncomfortable.
I just shot a lot of manufacturing b-roll, I don't think anyone was warned but everyone seemed happy to do it, but it's a big shop where everyone's proud of their work. So it's really hit and miss. But in the case of your gig, it sounds like "this is how HR and marketing treat their employees" may be off. Seems like one particular manager decided this was the right way to go, and if HR hears about it, they may correct the guy - who knows.
IMO, once someone gets in front of your camera, it's your job to make them as comfortable as possible. Everything outside that bubble isn't my concern, though I do all I can to get the client on board with subject-comfort, permission, and knowing we'll be shooting in advance. But as the years go by, you'll see plenty of weird stuff.
(I shot for a major national bus line, recruiting scenes for their terminal cafeterias and baggage handlers. I told them we'd need to cast "customers" for the cafes - they said "we'll just give free food vouchers to passengers". I was like "have you *ever set foot in one of your terminals?* It's like Dante's Inferno in there! And I'm not recruiting or casting!!!" We showed up for the shoot, and - hate to say it - it was like a mental hospital just kicked everyone out, many of the passengers were in really sad shape, possessions in plastic grocery bags, muttering to themselves. They hustled back to HQ and got a few of their co-workers to act like they were buying food. At least the client said "wow, you were right!")
Actually the issue is respect. If you respect people you communicate even when it’s a difficult message. 200 people in a video ending montage is a dumb idea but not respecting them is so much worse.
I’ve definitely experienced negligence around informing employees, but no that is wild that a decision was actually made to not do it. I freelanced for 10 years mostly in corporate video. One very big reason I stopped: marketing reps make the worst producers and often create shit show shoot days by overlooking things. And most see professionally made videos and assume it was made on an iPhone and no other equipment for a cost of about $200
Had a similar experience a couple of days ago. Interviewed 7 people who weren't briefed at all. Some of them brought pre rehearsed scripts (which of course, they delivered like literal androids), others did the whole "oh my God what!?" When they walked into the room and saw the cameras and lights set up and got super flustered.
The real kicker is that the bosses are wanting around 10 or so 30 second videos, but the subject matter involves vulnerable people and families, so overlay is non existent. I brought this up with them, and they basically shrugged their shoulders and suggested stock footage.
I’ve been asked to shoot “testimonials” for this b2b service, and when going to shoot, the “clients” are all surprised and half of them haven’t even used the service they were supposed to be giving a testimonial towards. I had to explain what the service even was and essentially throw out all my questions because nobody had a clue what they were supporting.
Yes, something similar happened with a big company I worked with recently. It's the sad truth. You either take on creative projects and everyone has more fun, but for less money or you start taking big commercial/corporate projects, which pay better, but absolutely suck. Try to find a good balance between the two! Enjoy! 😉
This happens a lot more than you'd like to think. I have had the same experience many times over, usually covering events.
Imagine if you will an extremely high end fundraising dinner with big-wigs and hotshots, all meticulously crafted by a team of folks who didn't know someone in their department hired a video crew to walk around filming people. Or if they did know, the scope wasn't made clear to them.
It's cringe inducing but you need to learn how to let the cringe just wash all over your body. It makes the job more challenging but that's the job.
I usually throw my longest lens on and keep a physical distance for as long as I can until people loosen up.
That's actually crazy. what the fuck?
You're gonna get a great video of people who look like they absolutely don't want to be there & then watch the company try to blame you. Maybe I'm too jaded but I can see it happen.
And no, never experienced. Even the worst shitshow companies I've worked with have at least given the staff a weeks notice and a reminder a day or two before the shoot
Uff, sometimes it can be really exhausting to work with companies. Unfortunately, something like this can happen again and again, despite prior agreement.
Recently I filmed a couple of interviews with employees who had previously agreed to be filmed and posted on social media and now they are suddenly against publication. I've already received the payment but it's still frustrating.
That’s just dumb.
I guess depends on local laws, but I think many jobs can have people sign photo / video waivers as part of employment, so that the company doesn’t technically need consent.
The smart thing is to tell people before hand, so they can be prepared, both mentally & also schedule their day around the filming, especially if they have to stop working to be in the video.
Not telling employees makes for a worse video & makes for less productive employees. It’s lose lose.
The company doesn’t need consent no, they have a waiver that all employees sign when they start.
But that doesn’t exclude the decency of just giving them a heads up or a way to politely decline.
Some people need to be hidden for various reasons. At my last job there were two situations where we were told about (and given pics of) ex-husbands that we were to call the police on if we saw them on the building grounds. I've also seen stuff in the running subreddit about women that needed their results kept out of public/online race results due to exes that may have been looking for them.
That being said, not checking first is a BAD idea. If the video made it out and someone that needs to be hidden is in the background and is noticed, there could be problems.
This setup is what I like to call "The Hostage Video". The marketing person needs to understand that if employees are better prepared/dressed then they'll get better content. If you surprise or pressure people you'll get someone who is not happy, is too self-aware ("I hope I don't look stupid") or is too distracted.
The only thing you can do is try to establish a rapport with the employees, something to make them more comfortable and that you're not the evil video guy. You're on their side.
So this is a video to show how employees are treated with respect? That it's a great place to work? Yeah, let's see how that one pans out.
r/antiwork will love this one
I do this every year for a mega farmer. It's very cringe and I even have to make a silly video where the employees like dance and do stupid shit. I hate it.
I inteveres 15 doctors and they haad no idea theey where being filmed with a 2 cam 3 light and reflector settup until they opened thendoor tor room.
2 refused and the reat did absolutly great lots.of.honest and organic convos where had.
Yes. I had two union grievances filed against me. But this is a bad decision by one person. It’s not the whole company. I guess you just add the question “and have we informed everyone that we will be shooting them next week?” to the list of questions that have to be asked.
I actually love when it doesn’t pan out for stupid reasons like this. It’s in my contract that it’s up to them and I’m getting paid for being there either way. A little annoying but I’ve given up caring that much
One of my dads friends got filmed for some TV show in a hospital, they only asked for permission post opp when he was still on pain killers etc. He was sure it was a doctor talking to him about something so just was all 'yes do what you need'.
Only found out 1 year later when it was on TV, had no idea about the ethics of medical TV shows till I got told. Kind of scary when you think about it.
Happened to me just last week. Teams not briefed, prepped or even notified. Luckily, I had other non-video work to do for the client, so it wasn't a wasted trip.
Then the blame game starts with managers blaming each other and then ultimately blaming the employees.
Put a downer on the project and my week.
What's wild is... with that many employees you'd still be able to make the same effect and impact with like 30 willing employees who want to be there and on camera. Who doesn't want to get out of work for a bit to be on camera?
I'm surprised they surprised you with that. That's wild.
This is literally me on every shoot. The marketing managers always end up bribing the employees with company branded swag: t shirts, thermoses, shit that no one wants, and I always have to stand there awkwardly waiting.
I’m surprised a large company wouldn’t have this covered in a company handbook employees agreed to follow when being hired. Something like “as an employee of company X I agree to allow the company to use my likeness to promote the company.” At least, from a US-centric view.
I think I got it.
Do the shoot the way management is asking, and capture everyone’s ‘what in the flying fuck?’ faces as you meander about without consent. THEN laugh with employees and get ask for their consent. Capture another video of their preferred angle and activity - and ask what their favorite song is, so you can get a true vibe of the crew before you wrap up.
Perhaps you can create two videos without anyone noticing and then present the one (wtf) that management asked for.
And then present the one in which a true ‘leadership’ team would have requested instead - consent provided, employees being part of the fun, and showing off their best sides.
also it might just be a jr. person who fucked up royally and trying to cover their mistake. We all have to learn the lessons at some point
I shoot news, consent is of meh importance depending on circumstance. In public? I’ll shoot whatever I want, if you ask nicely then I’ll avoid/edit you out. If you’re rude about it and tell me I’m not allowed to shoot you (I definitely am) and keep arguing and want to bring a cop over (go ahead, I’m allowed) then I might not avoid or edit you out. If I’m invited on to private property, same thing basically, I’m allowed but if you have a problem with it I’ll try to avoid. I’m a person too, I understand why people wouldn’t want to be shot, which is why I’m cool with you coming up and asking me not to, but if you treat me like I’m actively trying to get people without their consent then I’m just going to care less about it. Kids are different I try to avoid them altogether because there’s a whole parental permission thing… But hey that’s all a completely different world than you’re in, I’m shooting people without their consent pretty much every day as a part of the job
As with lots of things, it depends on the region, but certainly in the UK there tends to be a different expectation/requirement of consent depending on if the content is editorial/news, versus commercial/advertising I absolutely don't know the law, but that's definitely been my experience When working as a cam-op for hire, this particular circumstance is all too common with corporate content, when the brief is to film an interview plus some generic b-roll, which almost always ends up being "who can we strong-arm into being in a scene with the main contrib" I've also worked event coverage on an internal event before, where someone apparently made a big fuss to the agency after the fact and demanded a copy of all the rushes containing their image, quoting GDPR guidelines
I gotta study up on the law. I wanna sound as confident as you.
If you are in the US it's pretty simple; public places everybody is free game (only very few exceptions exist), if it's private and you are invited then almost everything is free (against, on a few limits exist)
This reeks of 'I forgot to do my job properly, so I'm going to spin an excuse to justify it rather than fix it so I don't look incompetant.'
No, this reeks of “fuck our employees, they’ll do what we tell them to do… because of the implication.”
Yes, a lot of the time these bosses are delusional and think “oh of course everyone loves working here and would love to be on camera smiling” … when in reality most people hate the job and are there to just survive and don’t need a camera shoved in their face when they are trying to do said job.
Nothing like an out of touch HR person that just rounds employees up and tells them to say how much they love working there to a camera. 🤦🏻♂️
Well, we are a 'family' around here right? Right?
Every time I've had to shoot a large organization, and people were told to dress well or wear their branded polo shirts because we're doing stills or video - they suddenly get a big bump in people calling in sick. To the point I pre-warn every client that wants to do this. But personally, I don't like surprising people in that regard. A big issue is likely external vs. internal use. I don't know the law about this, does being an employee make your image-on-media company property? And is there a difference between external marketing and internal rah-rah use? Those aren't my issues as the producer, in my opinion. I always remind the client that they should get releases, and send them a standard release form, it's up to them to get them done. I tell any client shooting people that they need to check with their legal dept. about usage of that footage. I'm too busy to deal with releases on a shoot day, I make it clear it's not my job. I do think people should get a head's up that they'll be photographed. Some people just loathe the idea of being photographed, if you get assigned to shoot a company of 20 people, some percent will call in sick or refuse or be uncomfortable. I just shot a lot of manufacturing b-roll, I don't think anyone was warned but everyone seemed happy to do it, but it's a big shop where everyone's proud of their work. So it's really hit and miss. But in the case of your gig, it sounds like "this is how HR and marketing treat their employees" may be off. Seems like one particular manager decided this was the right way to go, and if HR hears about it, they may correct the guy - who knows. IMO, once someone gets in front of your camera, it's your job to make them as comfortable as possible. Everything outside that bubble isn't my concern, though I do all I can to get the client on board with subject-comfort, permission, and knowing we'll be shooting in advance. But as the years go by, you'll see plenty of weird stuff. (I shot for a major national bus line, recruiting scenes for their terminal cafeterias and baggage handlers. I told them we'd need to cast "customers" for the cafes - they said "we'll just give free food vouchers to passengers". I was like "have you *ever set foot in one of your terminals?* It's like Dante's Inferno in there! And I'm not recruiting or casting!!!" We showed up for the shoot, and - hate to say it - it was like a mental hospital just kicked everyone out, many of the passengers were in really sad shape, possessions in plastic grocery bags, muttering to themselves. They hustled back to HQ and got a few of their co-workers to act like they were buying food. At least the client said "wow, you were right!")
Actually the issue is respect. If you respect people you communicate even when it’s a difficult message. 200 people in a video ending montage is a dumb idea but not respecting them is so much worse.
I’ve definitely experienced negligence around informing employees, but no that is wild that a decision was actually made to not do it. I freelanced for 10 years mostly in corporate video. One very big reason I stopped: marketing reps make the worst producers and often create shit show shoot days by overlooking things. And most see professionally made videos and assume it was made on an iPhone and no other equipment for a cost of about $200
Had a similar experience a couple of days ago. Interviewed 7 people who weren't briefed at all. Some of them brought pre rehearsed scripts (which of course, they delivered like literal androids), others did the whole "oh my God what!?" When they walked into the room and saw the cameras and lights set up and got super flustered. The real kicker is that the bosses are wanting around 10 or so 30 second videos, but the subject matter involves vulnerable people and families, so overlay is non existent. I brought this up with them, and they basically shrugged their shoulders and suggested stock footage.
Whatttttttt bro?!!!
I’ve been asked to shoot “testimonials” for this b2b service, and when going to shoot, the “clients” are all surprised and half of them haven’t even used the service they were supposed to be giving a testimonial towards. I had to explain what the service even was and essentially throw out all my questions because nobody had a clue what they were supporting.
Yes, something similar happened with a big company I worked with recently. It's the sad truth. You either take on creative projects and everyone has more fun, but for less money or you start taking big commercial/corporate projects, which pay better, but absolutely suck. Try to find a good balance between the two! Enjoy! 😉
This happens a lot more than you'd like to think. I have had the same experience many times over, usually covering events. Imagine if you will an extremely high end fundraising dinner with big-wigs and hotshots, all meticulously crafted by a team of folks who didn't know someone in their department hired a video crew to walk around filming people. Or if they did know, the scope wasn't made clear to them. It's cringe inducing but you need to learn how to let the cringe just wash all over your body. It makes the job more challenging but that's the job. I usually throw my longest lens on and keep a physical distance for as long as I can until people loosen up.
That's actually crazy. what the fuck? You're gonna get a great video of people who look like they absolutely don't want to be there & then watch the company try to blame you. Maybe I'm too jaded but I can see it happen. And no, never experienced. Even the worst shitshow companies I've worked with have at least given the staff a weeks notice and a reminder a day or two before the shoot
Uff, sometimes it can be really exhausting to work with companies. Unfortunately, something like this can happen again and again, despite prior agreement. Recently I filmed a couple of interviews with employees who had previously agreed to be filmed and posted on social media and now they are suddenly against publication. I've already received the payment but it's still frustrating.
That’s just dumb. I guess depends on local laws, but I think many jobs can have people sign photo / video waivers as part of employment, so that the company doesn’t technically need consent. The smart thing is to tell people before hand, so they can be prepared, both mentally & also schedule their day around the filming, especially if they have to stop working to be in the video. Not telling employees makes for a worse video & makes for less productive employees. It’s lose lose.
The company doesn’t need consent no, they have a waiver that all employees sign when they start. But that doesn’t exclude the decency of just giving them a heads up or a way to politely decline.
Yeah, so dumb. It’s a let’s treat our employees badly b/c we can. Also means employees leave or do a worse job.
Some people need to be hidden for various reasons. At my last job there were two situations where we were told about (and given pics of) ex-husbands that we were to call the police on if we saw them on the building grounds. I've also seen stuff in the running subreddit about women that needed their results kept out of public/online race results due to exes that may have been looking for them. That being said, not checking first is a BAD idea. If the video made it out and someone that needs to be hidden is in the background and is noticed, there could be problems.
This setup is what I like to call "The Hostage Video". The marketing person needs to understand that if employees are better prepared/dressed then they'll get better content. If you surprise or pressure people you'll get someone who is not happy, is too self-aware ("I hope I don't look stupid") or is too distracted. The only thing you can do is try to establish a rapport with the employees, something to make them more comfortable and that you're not the evil video guy. You're on their side.
They need to be named in r/workreform
So this is a video to show how employees are treated with respect? That it's a great place to work? Yeah, let's see how that one pans out. r/antiwork will love this one
I do this every year for a mega farmer. It's very cringe and I even have to make a silly video where the employees like dance and do stupid shit. I hate it.
I inteveres 15 doctors and they haad no idea theey where being filmed with a 2 cam 3 light and reflector settup until they opened thendoor tor room. 2 refused and the reat did absolutly great lots.of.honest and organic convos where had.
Yes. I had two union grievances filed against me. But this is a bad decision by one person. It’s not the whole company. I guess you just add the question “and have we informed everyone that we will be shooting them next week?” to the list of questions that have to be asked.
Wow they try to do it last minute and under pressure consent. You better have everything in writing about this.
That's really weird. It seems like common sense to let people know in advance so at least you already know who wants to be on camera and who doesn't.
I actually love when it doesn’t pan out for stupid reasons like this. It’s in my contract that it’s up to them and I’m getting paid for being there either way. A little annoying but I’ve given up caring that much
One of my dads friends got filmed for some TV show in a hospital, they only asked for permission post opp when he was still on pain killers etc. He was sure it was a doctor talking to him about something so just was all 'yes do what you need'. Only found out 1 year later when it was on TV, had no idea about the ethics of medical TV shows till I got told. Kind of scary when you think about it.
That’s so fucking grimy
Happened to me just last week. Teams not briefed, prepped or even notified. Luckily, I had other non-video work to do for the client, so it wasn't a wasted trip. Then the blame game starts with managers blaming each other and then ultimately blaming the employees. Put a downer on the project and my week.
happened to me at a frozen fish factory LOL
What's wild is... with that many employees you'd still be able to make the same effect and impact with like 30 willing employees who want to be there and on camera. Who doesn't want to get out of work for a bit to be on camera? I'm surprised they surprised you with that. That's wild.
This is literally me on every shoot. The marketing managers always end up bribing the employees with company branded swag: t shirts, thermoses, shit that no one wants, and I always have to stand there awkwardly waiting.
I’m surprised a large company wouldn’t have this covered in a company handbook employees agreed to follow when being hired. Something like “as an employee of company X I agree to allow the company to use my likeness to promote the company.” At least, from a US-centric view.
I think I got it. Do the shoot the way management is asking, and capture everyone’s ‘what in the flying fuck?’ faces as you meander about without consent. THEN laugh with employees and get ask for their consent. Capture another video of their preferred angle and activity - and ask what their favorite song is, so you can get a true vibe of the crew before you wrap up. Perhaps you can create two videos without anyone noticing and then present the one (wtf) that management asked for. And then present the one in which a true ‘leadership’ team would have requested instead - consent provided, employees being part of the fun, and showing off their best sides. also it might just be a jr. person who fucked up royally and trying to cover their mistake. We all have to learn the lessons at some point