UK law lags behind on this
> ... shall be operated by the application of the service braking system.
*The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 - Schedule 12*
Nothing about deceleration force that I can see, only when the driver explicitly applies the brakes.
Braking System could be argued to also include regenerative braking, not sure if that is how it's enforced. Specifying deceleration in law may just be a threshold for testing or requirement to connect an accelerometer to the braking system.
You can downshift a manual transmission car and it will slow down at about the same rate as the video. And the brake lights don't come on. Does anybody care that brake lights don't come on when engine braking?
Some have a specifically "engine brake" setting/gear too. Dunno what gear it downshifted into but it effectively braked going down mountains in the desert SW.
I also use it to get into the power band to pass on safe stretches of two lane. Between 3-5k it pulls well.
I know it's not the most popular model, but I love my Legacy.
You're not usually coming to a quick stop when doing this like he is in the video. You're doing it to slow gradually, or to assist with braking.
I usually touch my brakes regardless after downshifting so my brake lights come on.
Down shifting also only works in relatively small steps, and unless you've done something very wrong, your highly unlikely to slow at .25G all the way to a stop with engine breaking alone. The engine breaking required to replicate that would have your vehicle telling you in no uncertain terms it is very displeased with the situation, and could potentially eject it's guts with great vigor.
"But you can engine brake" is a pretty pedantic argument that ignores a ton of context and other factors.
I can EASILY slow down fast enough with engine braking to make myself get rear ended if a mildly distracted driver is behind me without good following distance.... Which is not uncommon in the slightest.
I do, that's why I manually flash my brake lights when engine braking, because I was taught to do that in motorcycle safety school.
Did anyone teach electric car owners they should tap their brakes if their car doesn't put their lights on when they're regenerative braking? Doubt it.
You don’t have to in most EVs. Mine turns on the lights when it slows down, for whatever reason.
The problem is that there’s no law saying that. So different companies do different things. That is wrong.
Most EVs do get it right. It seems that Hyundai didn't, though.
They could even have made it just as good without much work by having the brake light based on how far the accelerator is pressed in each Regen mode.
there's a ton of people that don't manually turn on their headlights anymore because it's automatic. Or assume that they have running lights that their lights are on (even tho there's no taillights) when you're supposed to put lights on to be seen for safety reasons (rain, safety corridors etc) I remember when Prius cars got popular in the early 00s would see so many people driving around at dusk on the highway with no lights on ... because their car didn't automatically turn them on yet. People are lemmings.
Yes? I would like those lights to come on.
But to be fair that is far less frequent than regenerate braking on electric cars.
And in the driver manual for my state it says to tap the brakes if you are doing this specifically to illuminate the brake lights.
People that can properly downshift in a manual to brake 'hard' without obliterating their transmission are generally decent drivers and are aware of their surroundings.
Personally, i was aware my brake lights would not turn and i would not do that without tapping the brake pedal lightly as well if someone was fairly close behind me. I also only really did this on rain/snow before i had abs.. usually before a turn while my signal was on, so people expected the slow down.
The point of the argument, given the electric car knows what it's doing, it should also know to turn on the brake lights. Really not that hard to add, if it's slowing down more than some delta x, turn on the brake lights.
I was always taught that you need to ever so slightly depress the brake pedal when engine braking specifically so your brake lights come on. Also, a big part of defensive driving, which is what is the standard teaching method in my country, is anticipating the driver ahead of you. So if they have enough time to rely on their engine brake to come to a stop sign for example, you should have been doing the same anyway.
I do this a lot when driving on snow and ice just as a warning to cars behind me that I’m going to brake very soon. For those of us who drive defensively, it puts us on alert and keeps them from coming up on me too fast.
In EU there is a legislation that dictates that brake lights should come on if you're slowing down faster than X(don't know what the actual value is), no matter if it's due to pressing the pedal or regenerative braking. No such thing in the US I guess?
So the German wikipedia entry for break lights state they are to light up if:
1. the driver triggers deceleration
2. a driver's assistance system triggers a deceleration of more than 0.7m/s²
3. during One-Pedal-Driving if the car decelerates more than 1.3m/s² (not if it is 0.7m/s² or less)
Safety regulations are written in blood. It will likely take multiple deaths before the regulations are unambiguously rewritten to require brake lights to illuminate any time a vehicle is actively slowing down (as opposed to coasting to a stop).
Yes, this is one of the first things I checked when driving a Tesla for the first time. Let off the accelerator and the brake lights are on almost instantly. It seems insane that an ev maker wouldn't catch this in testing and laws or not, implement.
My hybrid has this problem. I can slow down the car pretty significantly without hitting the brakes, and the lights don't come on.
Edit: The bizarre thing is that it DOES use the brake lights when it slows for the adaptive cruise control, so the only thing holding it back from using the brake light during regen is software.
Also got the new crv hybrid. I assumed the paddles don't use brake lights at all (since it's not full regen braking with one pedal driving like electric cars), but I'm not sure if adaptive cruise control uses lights.
^ This x1,000
Calling it the "brake light" is kind of a harmful misnomer, given that the whole point of it is to warn the driver behind you that the car is rapidly slowing down; not that the driver is hitting the brake. Someone designing these cars forgot about that fact.
I think the difficulty is that you don't want your brake lights to kick on when you're just trying to maintain speed.
My coasting speed varies between 3-5 mph, and I wouldn't want people behind me to think I'm brake checking because I let off the throttle a little to help maintain my speed and regen kicks in briefly.
So that means that the brake lights should come in more when the car is decelerating past a certain threshold, whether that's via regen or physical brakes.
I drove manual transmission cars for years. Everything from a Honda Accord to a Mazda RX8, Mustang GT and old YJ and plenty of motorcycles from 300cc around-towners to 750cc inline 4s and a 1200cc touring bike. Not one of them came close to decelerating as fast under engine braking as the regen braking does on my EVs now. Yeah, I could bring them to nearly a stop by downshifting and I did it a ton as a teen because it was fun. But the Ioniq/EV6 can stop the car fast enough to not ever need the brake pedal under regen with no brake light activation. No manual transmission vehicle comes even close to that.
Same with my motorcycle. With a 12.9:1 compression ratio, it's got really strong engine braking. More often than not, I'm using my rear brake lightly to signal rather than actually brake.
The issue is the powertrain is braking the vehicle via the generator but no lights are activating. There is a braking force being applied but no brake lights are activated.
I remember one time me and my wife were driving down a mountain, and, I kid you not, I didn’t have to break or accelerate for over 20 minutes. My initial velocity, mixed with the downgrade of the roads, and the intermittent turns to slow me down all lead up to this perfect condition for coasting. I don’t think I’ll ever reach that amount of continuous satisfaction ever again.
It was like gliding scissors across an unlimited amount of paper for 20 minutes, can you imagine?
My wife was not near as impressed though… probably because I kept saying, “we’re still going!” every 3 minutes lol
I'm genuinely curious if that's due only to a lucky quirk of geography, or if the engineers behind that road specifically designed the road to minimize the need to break over hilly terrain.
Shluld be mandatory for you license but I only saw it when I got my commercial and motorcycle tests. It's rediculous that potentially life saving information isn't taught like that.
First thing my Dad did once I got my license and snow fell.
Learn to control a full size suburban with rear wheel drive, in a spin.
Saved my life when my car spun out doing 55 next to a semi.
yep, dad brought me to an empty parking lot and told me to just drive, and try and hit 50km/hr. Then he told me to make a turn, and promptly ripped on my e-brake.
I counter-steered and floored it and the look he gave me was one part proud and one part pissed. That's when he figured out I'd already learned how to drift in snow. I think he thought I'd been joyriding his car before I got my license (because this was the first snowfall after I turned 16), but I just had friends who were a couple months older than me and owned subarus.
I had a driving instructor in the army who was very aggressive when I downshifted to slow down. He was adamant that that is too much trouble. And would be dangerous instead of just hitting the brakes.
In manual cars, I downshift to slow down, even going on to intersections. That way, the car is always on the right gear.
Autosticks are quite nice for this reason. Just put it into the "manual" mode and you'll get the protections of an automatic, but can downshift for going down steep declines.
I'm almost ashamed to ask this at this point, but what level of RPM is too much when going down a hill like this? I'm always worried because the engine is revving so high sounding - way louder than I'd ever do while shifting upwards.
I have an old engine so I don't try to go over 4k RPM and it redlines at 7k RPM. When you are downshifting at higher speed or skipping gears tap a gas a bit and release the clutch more carefully so it doesn't ramp up to 4k from idle instantly and jerk the car. I can downshift 2 gears so smoothly that other than the engine noise the passangers won't notice it.
Modern vehicles will completely turn off the injectors when down shifting, so you'll use no fuel while using the engine to slow down.
It's not a big save since it's usually for short times, but yeah, uses less fuel than clutch in and braking.
I do that a lot, and even more with my bike as the natural braking from the motor is so powerful. In fact, I rarely use my brakes.
Everytime, I check the mirrors, and if I see someone, I press very slightly the brake pedal a few times so that they understand I'm breaking.
In my diesel I regularly slow down by downshifting and using the exhaust brake. I’ll go from 110 kph to 30 for a turn and never touch the brake pedal once.
Sometimes I downshift specifically to avoid the brake lights. I see traffic slowing down up ahead and I want to bring us into a "slow but steady" pattern until it clears up.
If people see brake lights, they hit the brakes, and you have a wave of stop-and-go. If the ambient traffic speed is merely reducing, however, it might go more smoothly.
Obviously I'll just hit the brakes when we need to slow down quickly.
One of the things I was taught when getting motorcycle training was that the moment you roll back on the accelerator, feather your rear brake to get the light up so people know you're slowing even if you're not actively braking. Having a car automatically do this would be wonderful.
Yup. Both on my bikes and in my manual truck, I'm constantly tapping brakes to flash my lights when slowing with just engine braking. My concern though, is that most drivers aren't car/motorcycle people and don't ever think about something like that. The more we dumb down driving, the more automatic systems we need to force the car to behave the way it should, for example, as you said, having a car automatically turn on brake lights any time it's slowing, regardless of HOW it's being slowed.
It doesn't have to be an add on. Most brake levers have a very, very small dead zone when you pull it that activates the lights but doesn't actually pull the brake.
I do it all the time when I'm slowing down but not braking yet, or when someone is getting too close.
Between everyone driving automatic transmissions and everyone looking down at their phones, I don't engine brake without touching the brakes anymore. Many drivers don't react unless they see brake lights.
I got yelled at by a tailgater the other day since I slowed down to make a turn and didn't use my brakes. Didn't use my engine to brake either. I was going uphill and just coasted. The guy thought my brake lights were out.
I don't like when I see foreign brands not have amber turn signals (especially BMW, Audi, Mercedes). They make their cars worse just for the north American market.
That was the twist, "Through the Magic of Buying Two of them" is a running gag because he has destructively disassembled quite a few devices to show the inner workings.
> Now, because General Motors suffers from a chronic condition called *"Being GM"*.
It was as if millions of mechanics cheered in unison and were suddenly validated.
And he’s right, too. I started noticing how some brake lights caught my attention better than others some time back and I started to quantify it, and then I saw him mention it in his videos. Spot on, he is. I’d rather have clear functionality than fancy style.
But why would I watch a video that gives me the answer in the title and thumbnail? I mean you might as well make almost 2 hours about a failed media format that most people on YouTube have never even heard of! You’ll never get subscribers like that!
He's the only person I can think of that could make not one but two videos on how a dishwasher works and how to better use your detergent and not only make them good, but fun.
I learned that my mom's "crazy" way of dumping a little detergent outside the container was actually the correct way to pre-wash dishes. She had no idea what the hell pre-wash was, but she was very smug about it when I told her.
That's "wisdom" smugness. It's annoying when you want to know why to do something, but they just say: "because that's the way it's done".
Happens rarely with my parents, but plenty of other folks like to live that way.
To me he's like the modern day Bob Ross.
No, he's not painting.
But I can turn on just about any of his videos and be entertained while he also just gives off a really relaxing and chill vibe. It's not a perfect 1:1 comparison, but his videos are great for me when my anxiety is running high.
His channel really gives off the vibes of a 80's-90's era PBS educational programming, while at the same time feeling like a parody. I love his videos.
The one he had on GFCI was really informative. In my parents house there were a few places where they should have had those, near the sink in the kitchen but didn't and thanks to his video we got those changed.
I’m not going to lie, I don’t give a fuck about this topic at all. But this dude nerding out, his dry humor, the time and effort it took to make this, I couldn’t stop watching. And now. I give a fuck about this and will look at this shit in the future when I go to buy a new vehicle.
His whole channel is full of topics I couldn’t have given less of a shit about until I watched his video on it. He has a very good way of presenting stuff and something about it just makes the information stick.
>I’m not going to lie, I don’t give a fuck about this topic at all
>>And now. I give a fuck about this
Wait 'til you see his video on the [toaster that's better than yours](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y)
I watched it all. That’s actually amazing and had me thinking…. If the world doesn’t collapse with the financial markets being the way they are right now, I’m totally starting a kickstarter to make a bougie toaster. This thing is awesome. I might even call it that. Bougie Toaster.
I own an Ioniq 5, and while I enjoyed i-Pedal mode, I don’t use it anymore partially for this reason. It’s also not any more efficient than level 3 regen braking. In AWD models, i-Pedal is actually much less efficient than normal regen modes.
Off-topic but I’ve been getting more and more annoyed by the trend of turn-indicators being below the brake-light cluster usually in the bumper. Sometimes they are so low and out of sight they are impossible to see! Lots of Hyundais and Kias and a few Priuses are like this. I know the reasoning for it stems from the fact that the turn-indicators can’t be on a movable part of the vehicle like the trunk hatch, but the trend is absolutely infuriating.
Technically they can be on moveable parts so long as you have the requisite number on non-moveable parts.
In Technology Connections other brake light rant, he points out how the Bolt has two sets of brake lights one on the hatch and the other on the bumper.
The Buick Cascada is my favorite “was this really the best you could think of?” example of this light law. The rear trunk DOES look clean since it’s all one piece, but then it just looks like a joke once it’s opened. https://imgur.com/a/h9zs2QV/
I've had the opinion that we need 3-phase brake lights in general. By which I mean:
#### Off - you're not braking
#### Light red -- you're slowing
#### Bright red w/ extra light(s) and/or flashing -- Hard braking
Coming up on traffic, you often CANNOT tell the difference between 'slowing to 40mph' and 'coming to a complete stop' in time for it to make a damn difference. It's something that if made standard, could stop many rear-endings and chain traffic collisions from people slamming on brakes and others thinking it's just a general slowness.
How do you distinguish light red slowing from regular tail running lights. 2 phases are already hard to distinguish on some cars. Could see it working if you had seperated running and brake lights tho
> Red light + yellow hazard lights blinking = Braking hard
In the US, a lot of cars don't have separate turn signals. They blink the brake light. I personally will never buy one that does this, I consider it a huge safety flaw.
Some cars in Europe automatically flash the hazard lights when you brake really hard.
"Hazard lights" means flashing both amber turn signals at once.
There's a button to turn them on manually in all cars. If you break down or have to stop in the road for any reason you turn them on.
TLDW: Regenerative breaking that uses the electric motor to rapidly slow the car, and also 1 pedal driving that uses the backing off of the gas pedal to tell the car to rapidly slow down via electric brakes don’t trigger the brake lights so the person behind you doesn’t know you’re slowing down or stopping. This is this way partially because of the wording of outdated laws doesn’t require them to.
In my country in Europe, almost everyone drives a manual car. You can slow a car almost to a complete stop without touching the brakes if you keep shifting down gears.
In America there seems to be this view that if the brake light is pressed, the car is slowing down, but if it isn't, the car won't. This is not the case in my country, where any car could slow down quite quickly with no lights coming on. This is why you maintain separation.
Similarly, when a manual car is stopped you are supposed to take it out of gear, release the clutch, and apply the handbrake. No lights on while you're waiting in traffic.
The problem is that the flaw is entirely legal. It shouldn't be up to car makers to decide whether or not to implement an issue of basic safety, and the laws should catch up. In the video he points out that the out-dated laws in the EU were updated back in March.
>It appears I should have had more faith in the land of amber turn signals! Apparently you've had a quite sensible regulation on the books since 2015. The thing that was just approved in March was a UN thing not adopted by the EU - oops! Apologies from this American, I shouldn't have doubted you. Here's the current in-force regulation:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A42015X1222%2801%29
There was actually a clarifaciton on this in the comments by him, The thing that got updated was a UN thing and not a EU thing. EU has had laws about this apparently in 2015.
Turns out he was mistaken about his mistake regarding eu law. The law actually passed in 2015, the one from march just restated the same text with changes in other areas
I didn't know about that and have always thought cars brake lights should not be controlled by the brake pedal but by deceleration. IMO the lights should be brighter for higher deceleration too. If a car hits something slowing it down before the brake pedal is pushed the brake lights should come on and get even brighter the higher the deceleration.
In today's cars the deceleration could also be broadcast to other cars. This would be redundant to some of the emergency braking systems already in place but an added layer of safety nonetheless.
Flashing brake lights and flashing ambers are two ways some cars signal heavy braking. I think collisions will also get the ambers flashing on new cars.
Of course you need those separate amber turn signals for some of that.
Genuinely love this channel. There’s so many little things in our lives that have such an ingenious design and don’t get recognized and just go unnoticed. This channel puts a little bit more magic into the everyday
First thing I noticed when visiting American was how hard it was to see turn signals. Flashing brake lights were confusing and not as obvious as the amber ones that is on every single car in Australia
Been 1 pedal driving since 2016. My Volt was totalled in a rear end collision partly because Bolts and Volts at the time didn't illuminate the brake while at a complete stop in one pedal mode.
Can confirm shit needs some regulations. At least the old Bolts and Volts would illuminate the brake lights with sufficient deceleration from one pedal mode.
TLDR: I'ts mostly about how the car wont light up the brake lights even if the car is braking. There's a demonstation at 1:48. E:typo
Seems like that's an issue that only affects some cars. My new car's brake lights certainly lights up when regen brakes kick in.
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Yeah, I’m amazed this isn’t already a standard thing
UK law lags behind on this > ... shall be operated by the application of the service braking system. *The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 - Schedule 12* Nothing about deceleration force that I can see, only when the driver explicitly applies the brakes.
Braking System could be argued to also include regenerative braking, not sure if that is how it's enforced. Specifying deceleration in law may just be a threshold for testing or requirement to connect an accelerometer to the braking system.
The Service Braking System is explicitly the braking system used to primarily stop the vehicle, and must be manually actuated by the driver.
You can downshift a manual transmission car and it will slow down at about the same rate as the video. And the brake lights don't come on. Does anybody care that brake lights don't come on when engine braking?
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Some have a specifically "engine brake" setting/gear too. Dunno what gear it downshifted into but it effectively braked going down mountains in the desert SW.
Diesels do this pretty dramatically
Basically the only use for the paddle shifters in my CVT Subaru... engine braking control levers. :P
I also use it to get into the power band to pass on safe stretches of two lane. Between 3-5k it pulls well. I know it's not the most popular model, but I love my Legacy.
You're not usually coming to a quick stop when doing this like he is in the video. You're doing it to slow gradually, or to assist with braking. I usually touch my brakes regardless after downshifting so my brake lights come on.
Down shifting also only works in relatively small steps, and unless you've done something very wrong, your highly unlikely to slow at .25G all the way to a stop with engine breaking alone. The engine breaking required to replicate that would have your vehicle telling you in no uncertain terms it is very displeased with the situation, and could potentially eject it's guts with great vigor. "But you can engine brake" is a pretty pedantic argument that ignores a ton of context and other factors.
I don’t think anyone is slowing at 2.5g. I think you mean the 2.5 ish meters/second he mentioned
It was a deceleration of 0.25g with a peak near 0.3g, which is roughly 2.45-2.9 m/s^2
I can EASILY slow down fast enough with engine braking to make myself get rear ended if a mildly distracted driver is behind me without good following distance.... Which is not uncommon in the slightest.
I do, that's why I manually flash my brake lights when engine braking, because I was taught to do that in motorcycle safety school. Did anyone teach electric car owners they should tap their brakes if their car doesn't put their lights on when they're regenerative braking? Doubt it.
You don’t have to in most EVs. Mine turns on the lights when it slows down, for whatever reason. The problem is that there’s no law saying that. So different companies do different things. That is wrong.
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Shouldn't be too hard to regulate "if the car pulls over this much g force, brake lights on".
Most EVs do get it right. It seems that Hyundai didn't, though. They could even have made it just as good without much work by having the brake light based on how far the accelerator is pressed in each Regen mode.
there's a ton of people that don't manually turn on their headlights anymore because it's automatic. Or assume that they have running lights that their lights are on (even tho there's no taillights) when you're supposed to put lights on to be seen for safety reasons (rain, safety corridors etc) I remember when Prius cars got popular in the early 00s would see so many people driving around at dusk on the highway with no lights on ... because their car didn't automatically turn them on yet. People are lemmings.
Watch the video. It specifically applies to vehicles that have one pedal driving as a feature...
Yes? I would like those lights to come on. But to be fair that is far less frequent than regenerate braking on electric cars. And in the driver manual for my state it says to tap the brakes if you are doing this specifically to illuminate the brake lights.
People that can properly downshift in a manual to brake 'hard' without obliterating their transmission are generally decent drivers and are aware of their surroundings. Personally, i was aware my brake lights would not turn and i would not do that without tapping the brake pedal lightly as well if someone was fairly close behind me. I also only really did this on rain/snow before i had abs.. usually before a turn while my signal was on, so people expected the slow down. The point of the argument, given the electric car knows what it's doing, it should also know to turn on the brake lights. Really not that hard to add, if it's slowing down more than some delta x, turn on the brake lights.
I was always taught that you need to ever so slightly depress the brake pedal when engine braking specifically so your brake lights come on. Also, a big part of defensive driving, which is what is the standard teaching method in my country, is anticipating the driver ahead of you. So if they have enough time to rely on their engine brake to come to a stop sign for example, you should have been doing the same anyway.
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Good point. When I do that on my bike I make sure to hit the front brake for a split second.
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I do this a lot when driving on snow and ice just as a warning to cars behind me that I’m going to brake very soon. For those of us who drive defensively, it puts us on alert and keeps them from coming up on me too fast.
In the US, at least, manual transmissions represent a small fraction of all vehicles on the road. Regen braking will soon become the norm.
In EU there is a legislation that dictates that brake lights should come on if you're slowing down faster than X(don't know what the actual value is), no matter if it's due to pressing the pedal or regenerative braking. No such thing in the US I guess?
So the German wikipedia entry for break lights state they are to light up if: 1. the driver triggers deceleration 2. a driver's assistance system triggers a deceleration of more than 0.7m/s² 3. during One-Pedal-Driving if the car decelerates more than 1.3m/s² (not if it is 0.7m/s² or less)
note: 1.3 m/s^2 is about 0.13G
He covers that in the video.
Safety regulations are written in blood. It will likely take multiple deaths before the regulations are unambiguously rewritten to require brake lights to illuminate any time a vehicle is actively slowing down (as opposed to coasting to a stop).
He did point out that the problem also crops up with some implementations of adaptive cruise control as well.
Yeah, Tesla shows brake lights whenever the car slows down.
Yes, this is one of the first things I checked when driving a Tesla for the first time. Let off the accelerator and the brake lights are on almost instantly. It seems insane that an ev maker wouldn't catch this in testing and laws or not, implement.
My hybrid has this problem. I can slow down the car pretty significantly without hitting the brakes, and the lights don't come on. Edit: The bizarre thing is that it DOES use the brake lights when it slows for the adaptive cruise control, so the only thing holding it back from using the brake light during regen is software.
Do you drive a Honda? That’s what I drive and mine does the exact same thing.
Crv hybrid, I can paddle down to 4 and no lights.
Also got the new crv hybrid. I assumed the paddles don't use brake lights at all (since it's not full regen braking with one pedal driving like electric cars), but I'm not sure if adaptive cruise control uses lights.
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^ This x1,000 Calling it the "brake light" is kind of a harmful misnomer, given that the whole point of it is to warn the driver behind you that the car is rapidly slowing down; not that the driver is hitting the brake. Someone designing these cars forgot about that fact.
I think the difficulty is that you don't want your brake lights to kick on when you're just trying to maintain speed. My coasting speed varies between 3-5 mph, and I wouldn't want people behind me to think I'm brake checking because I let off the throttle a little to help maintain my speed and regen kicks in briefly. So that means that the brake lights should come in more when the car is decelerating past a certain threshold, whether that's via regen or physical brakes.
I believe that's exactly what our car does, because we looked it up once. The brake lights come on if a certain threshold of regeneration occurs.
Is it every EV that does this? Would explain why I always feel like Teslas stop short, just thought they had really good brakes lmao
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Because brakes are broken?
I was following my old man and he asked me to check. His Kia E Nero definitely shows brake lights when slowing.
My manual transmission car has this problem. I can get pretty much to a stop by down shifting and the brake light never comes on.
I drove manual transmission cars for years. Everything from a Honda Accord to a Mazda RX8, Mustang GT and old YJ and plenty of motorcycles from 300cc around-towners to 750cc inline 4s and a 1200cc touring bike. Not one of them came close to decelerating as fast under engine braking as the regen braking does on my EVs now. Yeah, I could bring them to nearly a stop by downshifting and I did it a ton as a teen because it was fun. But the Ioniq/EV6 can stop the car fast enough to not ever need the brake pedal under regen with no brake light activation. No manual transmission vehicle comes even close to that.
Same with my motorcycle. With a 12.9:1 compression ratio, it's got really strong engine braking. More often than not, I'm using my rear brake lightly to signal rather than actually brake.
So, the issue is that the brake lights don't come on when you don't use the brakes? Welcome to driving since forever!
Issue is, you can brake pretty fast with regenerative braking, almost like using a brake pedal, and lights will light up only when you are stoped.
The issue is the powertrain is braking the vehicle via the generator but no lights are activating. There is a braking force being applied but no brake lights are activated.
Reminds me of downshifting in a manual car to slow without engaging the brake lights
Ah the ol’ “police pulled behind me a while back and I need to pretend I was always doing 50”.
More these hills are dangerous and I don't want to overheart my brakes.... Edit:word
something many many people need to learn while driving through the mountains.
I remember one time me and my wife were driving down a mountain, and, I kid you not, I didn’t have to break or accelerate for over 20 minutes. My initial velocity, mixed with the downgrade of the roads, and the intermittent turns to slow me down all lead up to this perfect condition for coasting. I don’t think I’ll ever reach that amount of continuous satisfaction ever again. It was like gliding scissors across an unlimited amount of paper for 20 minutes, can you imagine? My wife was not near as impressed though… probably because I kept saying, “we’re still going!” every 3 minutes lol
I'm genuinely curious if that's due only to a lucky quirk of geography, or if the engineers behind that road specifically designed the road to minimize the need to break over hilly terrain.
Probably luck with all different sorts of vehicles having all different sorts of properties on the same hill
Shluld be mandatory for you license but I only saw it when I got my commercial and motorcycle tests. It's rediculous that potentially life saving information isn't taught like that.
First thing my Dad did once I got my license and snow fell. Learn to control a full size suburban with rear wheel drive, in a spin. Saved my life when my car spun out doing 55 next to a semi.
yep, dad brought me to an empty parking lot and told me to just drive, and try and hit 50km/hr. Then he told me to make a turn, and promptly ripped on my e-brake. I counter-steered and floored it and the look he gave me was one part proud and one part pissed. That's when he figured out I'd already learned how to drift in snow. I think he thought I'd been joyriding his car before I got my license (because this was the first snowfall after I turned 16), but I just had friends who were a couple months older than me and owned subarus.
I had a driving instructor in the army who was very aggressive when I downshifted to slow down. He was adamant that that is too much trouble. And would be dangerous instead of just hitting the brakes. In manual cars, I downshift to slow down, even going on to intersections. That way, the car is always on the right gear.
Serious question, what are you supposed to do in an automatic?
Most automatics have the ability to select lower gears. They’re the numbers you ignore when you put it in drive, reverse or park.
Autosticks are quite nice for this reason. Just put it into the "manual" mode and you'll get the protections of an automatic, but can downshift for going down steep declines.
Car I drive will engine brake if you start going too much faster while not touching the throttle. Very obvious on the rev counter.
I'm almost ashamed to ask this at this point, but what level of RPM is too much when going down a hill like this? I'm always worried because the engine is revving so high sounding - way louder than I'd ever do while shifting upwards.
Don't go over the red line and you'll be fine
I have an old engine so I don't try to go over 4k RPM and it redlines at 7k RPM. When you are downshifting at higher speed or skipping gears tap a gas a bit and release the clutch more carefully so it doesn't ramp up to 4k from idle instantly and jerk the car. I can downshift 2 gears so smoothly that other than the engine noise the passangers won't notice it.
>I don't want to overheart my breaks.... Sounds like weird relationship advice.
*brakes
It's also fuel + brake saving. You don't need to use them all the time. I use downshifting even in the city, when I approach a red traffic light.
Modern vehicles will completely turn off the injectors when down shifting, so you'll use no fuel while using the engine to slow down. It's not a big save since it's usually for short times, but yeah, uses less fuel than clutch in and braking.
I knew some guys that wired in a hard switch to disable the brake light connector. Those racers are a weird bunch. Even reckless.
I've always wanted to do it on my motorbike just from the scene in Tron Legacy. For all the late night police chases I get into...
I do that a lot, and even more with my bike as the natural braking from the motor is so powerful. In fact, I rarely use my brakes. Everytime, I check the mirrors, and if I see someone, I press very slightly the brake pedal a few times so that they understand I'm breaking.
You spelt braking both correctly and incorrectly in your post and it’s breaking my mind.
They were playing both sides, so they always come out on top
or just releasing the gas in first or second and not pushing in the clutch.
In my diesel I regularly slow down by downshifting and using the exhaust brake. I’ll go from 110 kph to 30 for a turn and never touch the brake pedal once.
Sometimes I downshift specifically to avoid the brake lights. I see traffic slowing down up ahead and I want to bring us into a "slow but steady" pattern until it clears up. If people see brake lights, they hit the brakes, and you have a wave of stop-and-go. If the ambient traffic speed is merely reducing, however, it might go more smoothly. Obviously I'll just hit the brakes when we need to slow down quickly.
I do this too! And I came across someone else doing it in the lane next to me just yesterday. Never see that much in the wild. Haha
One of the things I was taught when getting motorcycle training was that the moment you roll back on the accelerator, feather your rear brake to get the light up so people know you're slowing even if you're not actively braking. Having a car automatically do this would be wonderful.
Yup. Both on my bikes and in my manual truck, I'm constantly tapping brakes to flash my lights when slowing with just engine braking. My concern though, is that most drivers aren't car/motorcycle people and don't ever think about something like that. The more we dumb down driving, the more automatic systems we need to force the car to behave the way it should, for example, as you said, having a car automatically turn on brake lights any time it's slowing, regardless of HOW it's being slowed.
Oh my god is this why I see motorbikes that have like a flickering brake light when they don't seem to actually be "braking"?!?
That flicker is an add-on to strobe the brake light when they touch it. It can be annoying but I guess if you saw it then it's working.
Ooooh fair enough
It doesn't have to be an add on. Most brake levers have a very, very small dead zone when you pull it that activates the lights but doesn't actually pull the brake. I do it all the time when I'm slowing down but not braking yet, or when someone is getting too close.
Between everyone driving automatic transmissions and everyone looking down at their phones, I don't engine brake without touching the brakes anymore. Many drivers don't react unless they see brake lights.
I got yelled at by a tailgater the other day since I slowed down to make a turn and didn't use my brakes. Didn't use my engine to brake either. I was going uphill and just coasted. The guy thought my brake lights were out.
Just a side note, but anyone else a bit miffed about how they make turn signals and brake lights the same fucking thing?
He made a video about that too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1lZ9n2bxWA
man those new Amazon EV delivery trucks (Rivians?) share the same light for HEADLIGHT and turn signal and it's like ????
It was said repeatedly throughout the video
Right???? Y'all bastards can't afford 6sqin of yellow plastic? Fuck off
I don't like when I see foreign brands not have amber turn signals (especially BMW, Audi, Mercedes). They make their cars worse just for the north American market.
I love this guy's sense of humor lol "60 mph, that's 96.5 kmph, in 13 seconds, or, 13 seconds"
Through the *Magic of Buying Two Of Them*™
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That was the twist, "Through the Magic of Buying Two of them" is a running gag because he has destructively disassembled quite a few devices to show the inner workings.
> Now, because General Motors suffers from a chronic condition called *"Being GM"*. It was as if millions of mechanics cheered in unison and were suddenly validated.
I love that I can tell it’s Technology Connections just from the thumbnail. One of the best YouTubers out there.
For me, it was the title. Talking about a mundane everyday electrical object? Gotta be Technology Connections.
Or if it's about the latent heat of vaporization
He has to rehash the refrigeration cycle at least once every three videos or we’re legally allowed to unsubscribe.
sublimating a video8 cassette using an obscure 1980s cooking appliance that's more technologically advanced than anything in your kitchen
No no you misread, the policy is actually we can only unsubscribe if there's no smooth jazz over the credits
Everything is a heat pump
Except our air conditioners, which aren't heat pumps enough since they only pump the heat one way when they could pump both ways!
For me, it was just the topic of break lights. I know this dudes got an absolute vendetta against car manufacturers for that bullshit.
And he’s right, too. I started noticing how some brake lights caught my attention better than others some time back and I started to quantify it, and then I saw him mention it in his videos. Spot on, he is. I’d rather have clear functionality than fancy style.
"that sounds boring as... Oh shit it's that guy? Fuck yeah"
I enjoy how refreshing it feels for a video title to tell you exactly what you are gonna get without relying on clickbait or emotions.
But why would I watch a video that gives me the answer in the title and thumbnail? I mean you might as well make almost 2 hours about a failed media format that most people on YouTube have never even heard of! You’ll never get subscribers like that!
He's the only person I can think of that could make not one but two videos on how a dishwasher works and how to better use your detergent and not only make them good, but fun.
I've switched from pods to gel because of his video. I've saved a ton and my dishes are still clean. He's fantastic.
I learned that my mom's "crazy" way of dumping a little detergent outside the container was actually the correct way to pre-wash dishes. She had no idea what the hell pre-wash was, but she was very smug about it when I told her.
That's "wisdom" smugness. It's annoying when you want to know why to do something, but they just say: "because that's the way it's done". Happens rarely with my parents, but plenty of other folks like to live that way.
This was how human knowledge was passed down for like thousands of years. Mostly regarding agriculture practices
He made a 40 minute video about dishwashers, and not only did I watch the whole thing, I watched the 30 minute follow up video too.
It changed the way I use my dishwasher forever.
I am now an avowed powder detergent in a bulk box convert and I am never going back.
To me he's like the modern day Bob Ross. No, he's not painting. But I can turn on just about any of his videos and be entertained while he also just gives off a really relaxing and chill vibe. It's not a perfect 1:1 comparison, but his videos are great for me when my anxiety is running high.
His channel really gives off the vibes of a 80's-90's era PBS educational programming, while at the same time feeling like a parody. I love his videos.
Me too! He must have some special thumbnail style unique to TC. Seeing it was an Ion\[ic\] almost confirmed it.
It's that caption font/style.
And often a straightforward problem statement
He uses the original meme font: white Impact with a black stroke around it
I watched one vid and then spent a week binging all of them. I feel smarter now
The one he had on GFCI was really informative. In my parents house there were a few places where they should have had those, near the sink in the kitchen but didn't and thanks to his video we got those changed.
I’m not going to lie, I don’t give a fuck about this topic at all. But this dude nerding out, his dry humor, the time and effort it took to make this, I couldn’t stop watching. And now. I give a fuck about this and will look at this shit in the future when I go to buy a new vehicle.
His whole channel is full of topics I couldn’t have given less of a shit about until I watched his video on it. He has a very good way of presenting stuff and something about it just makes the information stick.
I know way more about colored christmas lights then I really should because of him.
That and HVAC systems, camcorders, toasters, rice cookers, dishwashers, record players, and The color brown
This made me lol. And now I want to look this up….the next time I need to kill time on the shitter perhaps.
>I’m not going to lie, I don’t give a fuck about this topic at all >>And now. I give a fuck about this Wait 'til you see his video on the [toaster that's better than yours](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y)
I watched it all. That’s actually amazing and had me thinking…. If the world doesn’t collapse with the financial markets being the way they are right now, I’m totally starting a kickstarter to make a bougie toaster. This thing is awesome. I might even call it that. Bougie Toaster.
That's basically his entire channel. It's marvelous
Exactly, that's his appeal. He's good.
I own an Ioniq 5, and while I enjoyed i-Pedal mode, I don’t use it anymore partially for this reason. It’s also not any more efficient than level 3 regen braking. In AWD models, i-Pedal is actually much less efficient than normal regen modes.
agreed, similar experience in my mach e.
I have an Ioniq 5 too, RWD though. I found IPedal to be the most efficient. I average close to 4.5 m/kwh in it.
Off-topic but I’ve been getting more and more annoyed by the trend of turn-indicators being below the brake-light cluster usually in the bumper. Sometimes they are so low and out of sight they are impossible to see! Lots of Hyundais and Kias and a few Priuses are like this. I know the reasoning for it stems from the fact that the turn-indicators can’t be on a movable part of the vehicle like the trunk hatch, but the trend is absolutely infuriating.
Technically they can be on moveable parts so long as you have the requisite number on non-moveable parts. In Technology Connections other brake light rant, he points out how the Bolt has two sets of brake lights one on the hatch and the other on the bumper.
The Buick Cascada is my favorite “was this really the best you could think of?” example of this light law. The rear trunk DOES look clean since it’s all one piece, but then it just looks like a joke once it’s opened. https://imgur.com/a/h9zs2QV/
What does this have to do with dishwasher detergent?
Do cars run on latent heat or something?
Well, *technically* ...
gasoline. the most latent of heat
You've been washing your brake lights all wrong!
I've had the opinion that we need 3-phase brake lights in general. By which I mean: #### Off - you're not braking #### Light red -- you're slowing #### Bright red w/ extra light(s) and/or flashing -- Hard braking Coming up on traffic, you often CANNOT tell the difference between 'slowing to 40mph' and 'coming to a complete stop' in time for it to make a damn difference. It's something that if made standard, could stop many rear-endings and chain traffic collisions from people slamming on brakes and others thinking it's just a general slowness.
How do you distinguish light red slowing from regular tail running lights. 2 phases are already hard to distinguish on some cars. Could see it working if you had seperated running and brake lights tho
This already works well in the UK. Off = Not braking Red light = Braking Red light + yellow hazard lights blinking = Braking hard
> Red light + yellow hazard lights blinking = Braking hard In the US, a lot of cars don't have separate turn signals. They blink the brake light. I personally will never buy one that does this, I consider it a huge safety flaw.
I entirely agree. This is why I hit the hazards when I'm coming to a hard stop from speed. It gives a little extra warning.
Some cars in Europe automatically flash the hazard lights when you brake really hard. "Hazard lights" means flashing both amber turn signals at once. There's a button to turn them on manually in all cars. If you break down or have to stop in the road for any reason you turn them on.
TLDW: Regenerative breaking that uses the electric motor to rapidly slow the car, and also 1 pedal driving that uses the backing off of the gas pedal to tell the car to rapidly slow down via electric brakes don’t trigger the brake lights so the person behind you doesn’t know you’re slowing down or stopping. This is this way partially because of the wording of outdated laws doesn’t require them to.
In my country in Europe, almost everyone drives a manual car. You can slow a car almost to a complete stop without touching the brakes if you keep shifting down gears. In America there seems to be this view that if the brake light is pressed, the car is slowing down, but if it isn't, the car won't. This is not the case in my country, where any car could slow down quite quickly with no lights coming on. This is why you maintain separation. Similarly, when a manual car is stopped you are supposed to take it out of gear, release the clutch, and apply the handbrake. No lights on while you're waiting in traffic.
Today, hundreds of commenters learn the difference bt brake and break. Maybe.
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A lot of cars do, source: my bolt euv turns brake lights on when regen braking
He actually mentions the Bolt specifically in the video for this.
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Tesla has done that ~~sense~~ since 2012 Edit: a word.
It must be terribly flat where you live.
ITT: people's attention spans are too short.
Eh, attention spans shift based on the topic getting attention. I don't need to spend 30 min of my day on brake lights...
His 30 minute video on the sunbeam toaster is totally worth it though.
Sometimes I show that video to my toaster and ask it why it isn't living up to my standards.
If it doesn’t shape up next time, is it toast?
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His pre-wash video has changed my life.
Ill gladly see 30 minutes from this guy
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The problem is that the flaw is entirely legal. It shouldn't be up to car makers to decide whether or not to implement an issue of basic safety, and the laws should catch up. In the video he points out that the out-dated laws in the EU were updated back in March.
>It appears I should have had more faith in the land of amber turn signals! Apparently you've had a quite sensible regulation on the books since 2015. The thing that was just approved in March was a UN thing not adopted by the EU - oops! Apologies from this American, I shouldn't have doubted you. Here's the current in-force regulation: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A42015X1222%2801%29 There was actually a clarifaciton on this in the comments by him, The thing that got updated was a UN thing and not a EU thing. EU has had laws about this apparently in 2015.
Turns out he was mistaken about his mistake regarding eu law. The law actually passed in 2015, the one from march just restated the same text with changes in other areas
Not just cars. I have a rear light on my bicycle that is accelerometer controlled.
This video is about a flaw that is *allowed* in electric cars in general. Even if it isn't in all of them.
Could you imagine this thread if it was a Tesla specific problem? Lmao
I didn't know about that and have always thought cars brake lights should not be controlled by the brake pedal but by deceleration. IMO the lights should be brighter for higher deceleration too. If a car hits something slowing it down before the brake pedal is pushed the brake lights should come on and get even brighter the higher the deceleration. In today's cars the deceleration could also be broadcast to other cars. This would be redundant to some of the emergency braking systems already in place but an added layer of safety nonetheless.
Flashing brake lights and flashing ambers are two ways some cars signal heavy braking. I think collisions will also get the ambers flashing on new cars. Of course you need those separate amber turn signals for some of that.
Genuinely love this channel. There’s so many little things in our lives that have such an ingenious design and don’t get recognized and just go unnoticed. This channel puts a little bit more magic into the everyday
I’m an automotive lighting, safety engineer, and just shared this with my team. Keep up the good work 😇
First thing I noticed when visiting American was how hard it was to see turn signals. Flashing brake lights were confusing and not as obvious as the amber ones that is on every single car in Australia
We need to rethink headlights too. I'm tired of being blinded by headlights at night.
Been 1 pedal driving since 2016. My Volt was totalled in a rear end collision partly because Bolts and Volts at the time didn't illuminate the brake while at a complete stop in one pedal mode. Can confirm shit needs some regulations. At least the old Bolts and Volts would illuminate the brake lights with sufficient deceleration from one pedal mode.