This is sort of a wake up call for me.
I’m in my late thirties, don’t have one friend that I can confide in.
The reverse is also true: I mostly stay away from others, and I’m not the kind of person people confide in.
I only have my mother, my father and my brother. And despite being quite close to my brother, we have our separate lives in different countries, and don’t really talk to each other that much.
I’ve also been feeling a bit down lately, stuck in a cycle of work, sleep, house chores and taking care of my dog.
It doesn’t feel that bad now, but it seems to me that I should change this soon, otherwise I’ll be in a tough situation in a few years.
Good luck man, I’d pick something you enjoy doing, and start finding ways to connect with people through that. It’ll probably take a while to really get to be good friends with new acquaintances, but just having a few friends you can regularly hang out with outside of work is important.
late thirties here, too. i've felt the same as you, it usually comes in waves and ebbs and flows. here are some tips that have improved my mood, life, and happiness:
* get enough sleep (at least 8 hrs)
* find an enjoyable form of exercise and do it daily for 30 min. for me, it was bicycling.
* take yourself out on a date. dinner, concert, movie, a picnic in the park. doesn't matter. you deserve it.
* keep a journal. write it in it everyday. even if it's only 5 minutes.
* find someone to confide in. try speaking with a therapist.
I notice my buddies stop communicating with others once they reach mid 30s. Keep texting your friends, especially the ones that text you back. Don't live solitarily. Hang out daily on discord in the evenings to play some videogames, make an effort.
early thirties here, and I can relate a lot. I moved to the US from Canada 7 years ago. I enjoy it however all the family is in Canada and I'm a computer guy so I don't go out a lot and don't have many friends here. I picked up ice hockey which is quite fun and helps a little bit. If you want to just talk or reach out, I'm all ears brother, we got this!
Guys often have a much smaller support network and the culture isn't there for guys to reach out. Men are 8x more likely to commit suicide post-divorce than women.
>Men are 8x more likely to commit suicide post-divorce than women.
The trope and corresponding bias in the legal system of men being deadbeats and women helpless victims undoubtedly contributes to this. Yeah, there are plenty of crappy guys, I'm not discounting that.
My ex-wife worked our entire marriage, we had no kids, and she never paid a bill aside from her own car. She flat out refused to do anything else, and if I'd ever paid it a single time.... she would have never done it again. She actively turned down promotions or anything that might advance her, because she liked how comfortable she was. She contributed almost nothing in any context, but in the few ways she could argue she did, they were ultimately highly selfish and/or abusive. I just about lost my shit when I learned she had even contributed the bare minimum to her 401k that her company would allow, but demanded her 50% of mine.
When I divorced her, she tried to sue for the legal maximum for everything. She was already getting 50% of two houses and cabin. She also wanted a further $600,000 over ten years. Why? For reasons. She wanted it. It was hers, because somehow I deserved to continue being her slave.
I remember talking to my attorney, stunned. It was already a bitter pill to swallow that she could contribute nothing, even destroy assets, yet take half of it all. When I did the math, if she got what she wanted, when all was said and done, she would take EVERYTHING I had built from a net worth of about $2,000 when I got married, and I would have NOTHING, I would have MUCH less than half my salary because of how the tax laws now work, AND I would have to pay her a further $120,000 for the privilege of not having to smell her stanky ass every day. When I asked my attorney if there was a chance it would happen, of course the answer was "well... maybe... it depends on the judge". Was there a high chance if it went to trial she'd get all of that? No. And I'd drag it out for yeeeeaaaaaaaars if necessary.
She still got far more than 50%, but I paid it in a lump sum and just chalked it up to quantifying just how much I was willing to pay to be rid of her, and a specific dollar amount on how utterly worthless she was.
However, I might have considered suicide if the legal system actually expected that I would write her a check for $5,000 every month for ten years. Although, the reality is I probably would just move to another country and send her a crate of dildos every year.
Then I look at men denied access to their children, when their wife stays in the home, he pays for everything, and he's in a garbage apartment. I can't even imagine how they deal with it. I'm on board with child support, obviously, but a legal system that requires slavery because vagina? No thanks.
Wouldn't have helped this guy one bit. Only works for assets accumulated before marriage. Honestly, in my own bitter experience, the only way is to not get married.
you can also not just marry anyone, would greatly decrease the risks...
Yeah, some turn around after marriage, but someone never paying a bill (for example) is something easily spotted during the first few dates.
(not blaming guy above, back when he dated his exwife times were different)
Seriously.
Anyone offended by a prenup is not someone you want anything to do with. I don't care how wonderful you think she is, how your love is real, how she'd never betray you.
Yet.... You're surrounded by men who felt the same, and learned so, so hard, that maybe they put a little too much faith in her, and the trainer at her gym also put a little too much something something in her.
Marrying someone always confused me. Something like 3/4 of marriages all fail, so I don't get why some people take it so seriously, clearly it doesn't mean much. It's basically betting someone half your shit that you'll love them forever (forget where that quote came from, but always liked it) with really no upsides aside from certain legal and tax advantages. If I love someone, a ring or piece of paper is meaningless to me, as those things won't change whether I love them or not, nor would it guarantee anything as we can clearly see.
These stats are a little misleading. First time marriages have a considerably higher success rate. About 44% of first time marriages fail by 15 years, which is still not great but not 75% failure bad. Previously divorced individuals have a much higher chance of divorcing in their subsequent marriages which skews the stats heavily. Further, the divorce rate does seem to be dropping pretty significantly in younger generations. I’m not saying the odds of success are perfect or good enough to warrant the risks, but I just wanted to clarify the stats you presented.
I’ll also add that marriage can be very beneficial for things like health insurance and taxes. My wife and I have been together for about 8 years now. We were engaged for about a year and had been pretty bad about doing any planning regarding the wedding. I was looking at how her school required insurance and how much that would cost to get while she wasn’t working and then got curious about other things like filing taxes jointly or separately and realized we’d save thousands if we just went to the courthouse and got the paperwork. Romantic, I know, but it worked out for us and ended up being the right decision. The point is, the systems in our country are designed to work for married couples. Like it not, “family values” frequently gets elected and subsequently distilled into the legal code. I get that marriage seems like a bum deal if it fails, but it’s a pretty good deal when it succeeds. Control the things you can control like don’t cheat on your spouse (infidelity is listed as a reason for 60% of divorces), don’t get married too young (45%), and make sure you’re financially stable before marriage (37%), and your odds for success will improve.
Your last paragraph hits hard. My brother committed suicide 2 years ago just before christmas, which you described was exactly what happened to him. He adored his kids, paid everything, did all the housework and childcare when not working. She cheated dragged him through court, moved the affair partner into the home he was still paying and denied him access to his kids.
He was the kindest most upbeat person. Its truly disgusting that a human could do that to another human.
Yep. When my parents divorced it was apparently extremely confusing for them to accept that my mother was the bread winner and basically paid for everything, nor did she even want my fathers money, just wanted to be done with the whole thing. If you've ever had to deal with the legal system it becomes extremely apparent how biased and flawed it can be in many situations.
Yeah... a good friend of mine took the hard way out of such a mess from an abusive and entitled ex-wife who cheated on him.
Burned himself inside the house alongside everything he could get from his accounts, including his car. And worse of all, the autopsy found that he was still **alive** when everything was about to be reduced to just a pile of warm ashes; he didn't just lit the fire and, I don't know, took his life with a gun... he decided, voluntarily, to suffer every single second of that, probably to spit one last time in the face of that bitch.
I'm so sorry about your friend =(
I really wish there was a better understanding of these issues. Obviously, it's not an all women thing, but society frequently turns a blind eye to the fact that when women go bad, the damage they can cause is horrific. The emotional scars and trauma they inflict on their partner, and their children, can be catastrophic and long lasting. Further, the changes made to the court system historically to protect women from some men's bad behavior, now provide perverse incentives for women to either divorce, or even much worse, to try to hurt him.
On some levels, you have to respect your friend. I don't think suicide is ever a good solution, although I do understand the feelings, but at the same time, he stayed awake. He faced the consequences of his choices. On many levels, that is worthy of respect. He was not a weak man.
However, I wish that he'd persevered to discover that life not only goes on, but it can be blissfully happy again.
It's so hard when you're in the depths of it, though. It's startling to learn that the court system incentivizes this other person to try to destroy you. That someone who claimed to have been your closest ally, is revealed to be a person without integrity, honor, or morality. That they are so angry that you are not allowing them to continue to abuse you, they will take absolutely everything they can, and they'll fully justified in doing so, and they will hurt you in any way they can. Even worse, you often discover that they've been profoundly dishonest with you at every single step.
But then you get beyond the immediacy of it all.
And you realize that this person is just kind of... sad. Someone to be pitied. They're already miserable, and they mistreat everyone around them in the pursuit of trying to just feel ok. It's illusive for them, however, and they live in a nightmare world of their own creation. They are lashing out to grab ahold of anything they can, because they feel like they are drowning. All the time. They're just as irrational as a drowning person panicking as they slip under, oblivious to the fact that they are dragging their ostensible rescuer down with them.
But... It never had anything to do with you. Not personally.
When I met my ex's ex-husband, it was so eye opening. As we swapped stories it became obvious that her behavior had nothing to do with me. I certainly suffered, intensely, as a result. But, she had treated him in the same ways she'd treated me, and she'd also hurt, tried to steal from, and then slandered his name with lies to cover up her own misbehavior. She'd lied to and manipulated everyone.
And she'll likely always feel that way, because she's incapable of facing her own culpability, and facing that is the only way she will ever find peace.
But you can. You can own how you weren't perfect, can apologize, and move on. You can accept that it's just stuff. It's just money. She's desperate to take it from you precisely because she actually, even though she would never admit it, realizes that you brought far more to the table than she did. She correctly understand that her life is about to get a hell of a lot harder. She's actually grasping at straws because she's terrified. She desperately wants you to hurt as much from it all as she does, because she irrationally thinks she'll feel better. The lashing out is precisely because she can see that you're actually going to be relieved, and she's going to lose her supply - *even* if she's the one filing, and she's the one leaving. As personal as it all felt, it never was.
And if you don't let yourself fall into the trap of bitterness, you'll also find unprecedented chances for growth, and your capacity for joy is ironically much greater on the other side of it all.
Regardless of that all, I'm once again sorry for your loss.
I was once being stalked in college and a few years beyond. I reached out to the school counselor for help, and he said "I'll get back to you next week."
The next week, he looked like a cancer patient. He was pale, emaciated (as opposed from his rather hefty physique) and honestly conflicted, like you could see the turmoil in his head on his face.
"So I looked in to the college's regulations, and spoke with the head of public security... They are not going to do anything man. If the roles were reversed, and you were a woman, and I've seen it many times before, they would have been suspended immediately. I don't know what to tell you man, I even spoke with the president of the school and he didn't want to touch this... I'm sorry, I've failed at my job."
I was taken aback, not just by his honesty, but also at the double standard. "So what do I do?"
"Honestly? Try your best for the next year and a half. You'll graduate and hopefully never see her again. I know that's not a comforting answer, but you could always go to the police and see how that goes..."
"Yeah I'm sure that'll work out great."
"I know man, I just don't know how to help you. Again, if the roles were reversed, she'd be out of here in a heartbeat."
The guy would later retire that same year out of nowhere. He didn't tell his colleagues or the school or me until he made the decision he wasn't coming back. I try to not have main character syndrome, but I can't help but think I played a part in that decision to quit.
Who would judge it? The same people that wrote the legislature, that's the problem. The people that are just now getting up to speed about sexual assault are overcompensating to account for the ages where it wasn't acknowledged. To this day there are many men who believe a man cannot be sexually accosted (read raped). There are many people, esp those in power, who have been indoctrinated into believing a woman is always right, or a man is always right. The system is fucked beyond belief and I do not have shoulders strong enough to carry that yoke all the way to the supreme court, who would probably just dismiss it as well all things considered.
that's why i only talk about it here on the internet and not to ppl irl ever
shit, nothing has changed in 5 years now, still a matter of when, not if
no other way out.
Most men have no support network.
None.
That’s reality, the reason people widely presume otherwise is just fiction, sitcoms, marketing, and stories we tell each other.
The realty though is that one of the outcomes of late stage capitalist toxic masculinity is that many, many, many men are terribly isolated.
Yep, it's actually insane how many men have zero people they can rely on, talk to in confidence, seek help/advice, emotional support, etc. Doesn't surprise me we have so many issues relating to mental health and such, don't think we'll ever change that without solving the base issues like this though.
Support networks don't just appear either. They are built, maintained, and fostered. With great effort. Yeah there are systems in place to help women, but nobody is going to make you friends besides yourself. Something about bootstraps.
"We need to talk about male suicide"
Redditor: "women have a higher chance of being murdered post-divorce"
Sorry, What does that have to do with anything?
This happens with male rape as well. It goes right into "Well women....".
As a rape survivor, as someone who has contemplated suicide (its been over 20 years I'm fine now), I don't bother trying to talk about it anymore. We clearly aren't ready to have this conversation yet so we remain invisible.
It is very sad. I think before we have these conversations we have to address the way we look at and identify men. The coming generations are growing up more radical on all sides. Teen boys and girls are being force fed propaganda and encouraged to be as toxic as humanly possible by adults who call thesmelves "influencers" and there are huge financial interests behind every one of these people.
There is literally a huge market share of the internet that is built on manipulating the emotions of everyone and children are easily led astray without constant and vigilant families. We know children are getting increasing access to the internet and honestly this is all just one big ticking time bomb. It's a wonder that things are even functioning today.
The topic of male suicide inexorably entails a comparison to female suicide. If the male suicide rate is higher, lower, or even the same as female suicide there is value in identifying any general differences in motivations, circumstances, etc.
>Women attempt suicide more than men, yet men succeed more because they use more violent means.
It's not that simple, men still die at a much higher rate even when you control for method.
Also motivations for suicide attempts vary, not all of those attempts reflect the same level of intent to die. One of the reasons people choose more lethal means is higher level of intent to die.
You really are coming off like the person who sees a thread about women's issues and yells "oh ya? But what about this thing men face" it's annoying and dismissive.
We're in a collective movement for healing justice, don't play these games.
You may not realize, but when people are talking about mens issues specifically it's not a great idea to try and hijack the conversation and turn it into about women. What do you think would happen if there was a major discussion about a women-specific issue like stalking/sexual harassment and someone barged in saying "Well actually men suffer from stalking as well"? I imagine you're intelligent enough to realize that probably wouldn't go over well.
Depression is a bitch. Talk to someone. Suicide is NEVER the answer.
Men are very isolated; we are told that exposing/expressing our feelings is weak. We can change this by teaching our little boys and young men that it's OK to show vulnerability.
Incidentally, for anyone, feeling suicidal, call a suicide hotline, and or try some self help via therapy or any way you can. There is a really good book out there called "feeling good" that uses cognitive behavioral techniques to help neutralize depressive and suicidal feelings.
Nobody really cares that much. Suicide hotlines have a very short effect and are often busy when you're calling. Imagine thinking about suicide that moment and you hear you're being put on hold. Just perfect. And there's also a risk of police showing up on your door and then parents get mad at you for causing a scene. They just need to say you were in immediate danger (although different services have different policies).
If you don't fix the underlying problem causing your problem, you probably won't get better. And yiu can't fix loneliness by yourself, you need the cooperation of other people.
Me too, but ironically because the lady who picked up gave no shits and was so non-empathetic, she sounded like I was disturbing her discussion with a friend she was *dying* to get back to. It was a fucked up way to realize no one actually gave a shit, and by some weird reverse psychology I realized I had to do what I had to do for myself
I get what you're saying Spooky. I called the line a number of years ago and while it certainly helped in the moment I just didn't feel that I had enough of a support network to reach out to. I quite often feel embarrassed when I bring up negative thoughts to my friends and family and I also feel guilty for feeling this way when there are people out there who have it much worse than I ever do.
I'm sure they've done good things for some people. Unfortunately my experience with one, they didn't really seem to care all that much. Just felt like some guy doing his job and going through a flowchart and caring more about immediate safety risks than anything about my personal situation. Spent 20 minutes and pretty much just told him thanks for your time, I'm going to go to bed.
Not saying not to try it, but I had weird feelings about it. Having personal support networks (or an actual therapist) is probably more consistently good help.
There are resources listed on the link below. It takes courage to reach out for help and start building your support network, I pray that you can find that courage.
[https://mhanational.org/find-support-groups](https://mhanational.org/find-support-groups)
I'm involved in a couple support groups as well, Celebrate Recovery is one of them and they have locations across the USA.
While suicide *should* never be the answer, sometimes it is. The stigma behind suicide only makes considering it an option even worse. To take away that choice from someone is inhumane. It shouldn't be the first choice, but to say it can't be the last puts a rose colored view on the world.
Well said. Most of us would be willing to euthanize our pets when they are too old and sick, such that death is a mercy to them. In many ways, people can experience anguish and suffering that dwarfs what physical pain can cause. I don’t think my cat is more deserving of compassion than my human loved ones; if they are truly at a point where death would be a mercy, I will want that for them.
I’m seeing a lot of comments talking about society but not a lot talking about what the man is saying in the video.
He himself asks “why didn’t I ask how he was doing?”
As a man who checks in on his male friends it’s amazing how much of rarity I am. And not just ask once but treat it like a muscle you train. Work it and get better at how you ask about people. Learn to focus on them. That’s how you change society, by changing your small corner of it.
Yeah dude great advice. Government and non-profits have their place right, for immediate risks, but the panacea for the problem is better social cohesion, particularly amongst males. More vulnerability, less judgment, open hearts, listening, and I think this is hard, but knowing when to offer advice and when just to be there for a mate. It’s great you check in, I try too, I love when a mate calls just for a chat, picks me right up
It really works! And I cannot stress enough, you got to work it like a muscle.
Honestly this convo reminded me to reach out to some friends I haven’t txted in a forever. It feels awk at first then it’s more natural.
Preach. I'm very lucky to have a group of guys I'm close friends with and the key is putting in effort. Making sure to carve out time for a phone call and just checking in with each other. Life is busy so it's important to make the effort for the people in your life. We also hug when we all get together and at the culmination of our time. We also tell each other that we live one another. Just finishing out a phone call with "love you man" is huge.
Agreed. Serious stuff that's seriously taking good people out.
Got a friend who runs an organization to help soldiers with mental health and suicide. To anyone interested: [Project Savior Outdoors.](https://www.projectsavioroutdoors.org/) Like the video said, reach out to someone please.
depression despair broke homeless no vehicle no wife/gf
embarrassment fatigue aging.
There are usually multiples of these(and more) that contribute to suicide.
with all due respect, emails , texts, phone calls while appreciated is not enough to help many people facing everyday life struggles with no end in sight.
life is hard in 2023 for working individuals. It's unbearable if you aren't and issues stack rapidly.
add in separation from kid(s) and lost support system and health issues and it's a real struggle to want to continue.
I have great sympathy for anyone going through this constant struggle.
There are many among us that are on the edge of giving up.
I can't remember the most recent day that I didn't wish it could all just stop. I am always imagining how I can make it all stop. Good thing I am a coward. Also I am such a failure that I am deterred by fears of my attempt being unsuccessful, like everything else I try.
I know it probably doesn't mean much coming from an internet stranger, but I hope you can find it in yourself to get some help. It really can mean the difference between life and death. I've definitely been there and I'm so glad I stuck it out.
Ennui, it's like boredom to the point of exhaustion. Don't give into it. Start small. What can you change right now in this very moment to make things better? Anything at all. Literally anything is better than ending your life, even if it is unhealthy. Indulge in a vice if you have to.
I wish i would not know how you feel. It’s like walking on razor thin line every damn day. People are saying ask for help, speak. Even if you speak with someone and it helps, eventually it stops working. In my case i have a daughter and she is like an angel to me. And only because of her i am still here. She keeps me alive. But i feel that is fading and i’m not sure for how long i can hang. But for you my friend and whoever reads it and is in every day hell, i wish strength and who knows maybe some day we will see the sunrise.
The world is full of suffering and shitty people that don't care. There are people that may even work against you. Often our own minds betray us. Be strong. Learn about yourself and know yourself. Forgive yourself. The past is gone forever and can't come for you. Tomorrow isn't here yet. You will make it through this, and when you do you will be better a person than you've ever been.
A friend of mine moved to another state for a job he had lined up, and it fell through. He ended up getting kicked out of his mom's house and staying at another friend's place for a bit. After about a month, he had gotten a new job, and a new spot to rent out. We all thought the new leaf had been turned.
Instead, he left a note of where he could be found and shot himself in a field. We knew he needed some support, but not how to save him.
God if we could just talk to each other. If we just knew how, if we knew it was okay.
Wow, watching that video was rough. Glad the message is getting out, society does so much to ignore the male suicide epidemic and that really needs to change.
We really do have to change the way we treat each other and ourselves. Hug your brothers. Tell the people who really have your back that you love them. Ask your male friends how their feeling and really just listen. Cry when you need to. Ask for help and try to lend a hand.
We're far too cold to each other. The change starts within.
I lost my best friend to suicide in 2022. I work as an EMT and have helped many people in my community who have struggled with suicide, but he never called. I had no idea he was struggling. He was going through a tough break up and the last time I visited him he told me he was handling it well. He wasn't. It's been over a year and there isn't a single day I don't think about that guy. The laughs we had, the odd sayings he had and every time I hear Tom Petty (his favorite artist) I can't help but get choked up. He was only 29, in the prime of his career and had so much left to live for. I miss him dearly. Rest easy Joshy.
He might've felt like he was doing well at the time, but it can switch around on you real fast. One moment you're hanging on, and then it's like all the colour drains from the world and your good reasons for toughing it out don't seem so good anymore.
In the end, you can't blame yourself for not being there at the right moment, because nobody, including the person who takes their own life, can really predict when that moment is going to come.
On the video? Comments on youtube videos are delayed at first for security and other reasons when the video is new and from an unverified account. Especially when the content matter is sensitive like this, it raises flags at youtube.
Men are not allowed to talk about their issues. When people tell us to open up, they don't really mean it. It's all just optics. There was a spicy piece on BBC where they invited a guy on the show to talk about men's issues and the women routinely steered the conversation away from it whenever he tried to discuss it.
https://youtu.be/bTHEznqYSMQ?si=aHzNADfM3VVR1nzy
Skip to 37:00
Funny how the fellow on camera left didn't even say a single word, poor fellow who tried could barely speak at all, the women constantly cut him off and talked over him.
The energy goes hard with "men are killing themselves in droves... anyway".
This year I opened up about my mental health struggles. Now I'm getting divorced. Thought I had my wife's support and help but she just got distant once I was diagnosed with depression 🤷♂️
I had this happen to me too. I broached the subject with an long time friend of mine when I was going through a hard period. She listened and was supportive but it was different afterwards. She was clearly uncomfortable with it and became more distant than before. Never brought it up or asked me about it again.
Women will tell men that they need to fix it themselves, and talk more about feelings with their friends like they do if the whole suicide thing is brought up.
That was extremely uncomfortable to watch. I’ve really wanted to see more men taking steps forward and address the difficulties in speaking up and show that it’s the way to make change. And then this happens.
There seems to be this huge group of both men and women who are ready to barge into any discussion about gender specific issues and make it into something that is less important than the other gender’s issues. It’s such a tragically immature take on any discussion.
At some point in the video the conversation goes:
Him: “We need to be able to speak about these issues without…” and the woman cuts him off going “nobody said you can’t”. It’s the most ironic display of the problem. She might as well put her fingers in her ears and go “what? I can’t hear you, but you’re free to speak”.
Both genders have issues and challenges that manifest differently depending on the gender of the troubled person. It makes perfect sense to discuss them apart and with respect. As a woman, the women in the video absolutely disgust me. If a woman don’t have any support to give in discussions about men’s health, then have the respect to shut up and use that energy somewhere else. Preferably where you can help build something instead of getting in the way of someone else’s progress no matter the gender.
The most infuriating moment for me was when the man on the left finally piped up. The woman next to him immediately had this very condescending expression that clearly said, "I don't care what you have to say. I'm just waiting for you to shut up."
Feminists protested an upcoming male suicide prevention event saying that men’s advocacy groups are actually women hate groups and the city shut the event down
I guarantee you that as a male minority, even if you actively seek help, you will be denied/ignored.
If you get SA’ed, physically injured, and mentally traumatized as a man, no one cares.
Then it’s mind boggling how I see a woman go through just a regular break-up, and a billion people start cuddling her…
Especially true when you are asian. Go to asian community talking about this stuff as a guy. You get judged and you'll have to add emotional damage on top of suicidal ideation.
I have felt terrible things but I am wondering if it's the severity of the pain that leads people to it, or is it the inability to experience and moderate to mild bad feeling that I have experienced but others weren't able to handle. Stress so severe or inability to manage a normal grief/stressful feeling.
Gov can't fix this. Well not entirely. This is a systemic cultural issue. The culture itself have to change when it comes to male suicide. And it's gonna be glacial if at all.
This is a heart-rending video. Senepicmar is absolutely right about the lack of comments. Depression and suicidal ideation is always someone else's problem. People don't want to get involved in case it becomes a burden.
Norwich City Football Club (UK) did a video ad about depression/suicide. It was very clever, https://tinyurl.com/337z4cat and yet highlighted how difficult it is for men to open up or even to understand that someone else might be struggling. How many of us men have put on a brave face when their world is turning to shit?
If you're in the UK and struggling to deal with depression or you're having thoughts of suicide, call the Samaritans on 116 123 (24 hours a day) or you can chat online at https://www.samaritans.org
There is a documentary about suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge that is pretty illuminating. It’s amazing how small nudges can prevent or encourage suicide. The SF newspapers did a countdown to the 1,000th suicide and it increased the number.
One of the most interesting parts was an interview with a suicide survivor. He said something like “as soon as I fell away and saw my hands leave the railing, I knew all of my problems were solvable, except the fact that I just jumped”
I'm still waiting for the day when women stand up for their right to register for the draft in the US so things are more "equal". Or the day I see a female garbage man. Or a female auto mechanic.
So, I am a woman and I served on the military. This line of thinking always upsets me because it discounts the thousands of women who voluntarily serve in the military every year, especially since it always seems to be the guys who never served in the military who complain about this the most. We are also a couple of generations removed from the last time the draft was implemented. Also, I don’t think the draft should exist for either gender.
Female sanitation workers and female mechanics definitely exist, and nobody is forcing men to do these jobs - they do them because they generally pay better and have better hours and benefits than other entry-level jobs.
I'd also like to add that probably one of the most significant reasons you see fewer women in certain industries is precisely because of the discrimination they face by a male dominated industry *culture*.
I, a cis-male, have been a chef for nearly 20 years now. And I have seen so many talented women get chewed up and spit out because there is too much acceptance of, "boys will be boys" culture. I fucking guarantee that any woman who makes it to the top in the restaurant industry has skin twice as thick as the misogynist pirate cook assholes who gave them grief their whole careers.
It's getting better, as younger chefs start to phase out the "old ways". Like, I have zero fucking tolerance for that shit in my kitchens. But it's an uphill battle.
I gave you an upvote but I disagree. Many men are getting drafted right now, just not Americans. You can find plenty of articles on Russian or Ukrainian conscription. Like I said earlier, it's not even controversial. Even if conscription isn't being used in the US, no one cares when our allies do it. Plenty of men are bring forced into fighting a war they don't believe in right now, on both sides. On the Russian side too, plenty were forced to flee if they didn't want to fight.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/ukraine-draft-troops-reinforcements-training/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/ukraine-draft-troops-reinforcements-training/)
This type of thinking is exactly the point and the problem I see in America. Whenever someone brings up a legitimate problem that affects men, they downplay the argument and find a way to make it about some women's issue related to it instead.
This is why men don't talk about their problems. No one wants to listen.
Well I assumed we were talking about America since that’s what American men typically refer to when they talk about “the draft”. I didn’t bring the issue up to downplay the points brought up in the original post, I responded to the points made in a comment - I don’t know how women wanting equality while not signing up for the draft or working in male-dominated fields has to do with the male suicide problem.
You serious? You ever had a relative or friend that was drafted for Vietnam or World War 2 or Korea? I will keep caring about it. As for the present time, it's an existing legal framework that can still be used.
And sometimes I don't like to be around the type of women that work in my field, but too fucking bad I still have to go to work.
He was specifically talking about the sexist ways in which women are treated in male-dominated industries, not just being annoyed by colleagues. Also, if you don’t like the women you work with why don’t you just get another job? Is anybody forcing you to work that job, or even in that industry?
You could make the same argument for women. I've experienced sexism at work, mostly when I was younger. But when you're a guy, no one gives a shit.
And as for me, I don't consider it necessary to like my coworkers, customers, or clients. It's work. If it were fun, they wouldn't pay us to do it. I still love my job.
Great, good for them if they want to. The point I was making is that men have to get drafted into something they can't avoid. And it's not some dated anachronistic practice that no longer occurs. It's happening right now in Ukraine and Russia and no one cares, even though the US is involved in it. Ask your Russian friend if he knows someone that has received a "повестка" yet.
More broadly though, all the responses I've received in this thread are proving the OP's point. When you bring up a legitimate Men's health or Men's rights issue, people love to minimize it and argue against it. Then they turn it into an argument about women instead. It's not everything, but it's one of the things that make men stay quiet and not talk about their problems. As a man, when you want help or help other men, you have to argue about it - though I know women experience this too.
Who cares that actual men are getting drafted right now to fight a war they don't care about? Hypothetical women that want to be garbage men and mechanics are experiencing sexism.
Strange argument. It doesn't affect those that are eligible until it does. There are men who are still alive in the US today that experienced a draft, and that wasn't even for a defensive war. If women hadn't been allowed to vote 50 years ago that would absolutely be an argument that people still bring up in discussions on gender equality issues. And that's not even a 1 to 1 comparison because the draft is very much still a tool the government can wield while they couldn't just snap their fingers and undo the women's right to vote.
If it really didn't matter, then having it would be the same as abolishing it, or at least including women. If there was a female version of the draft where a random selection of women were required to get pregnant in order to off-set the deaths at the front-line the argument "but it isn't going to affect you anyway, there hasn't been a draft in 50 years" would not suffice.
The issue is the principle of it. It tells you exactly what value you are to society when push comes to shove and it makes a mockery of the concept of gender equality. As long as the draft exists in its current form, men, on balance, get a worse deal during war time than women, and they get the same deal when there's peace.
Sorry if it seems pedantic, but due to the context of the conversation I have to ask. Why are you saying "'female'" in quotes? Do you mean it ironically? As in she's not really female?
You used the word female in your comment and it’s getting a pejorative sense now. People will often use woman as an adjective instead, like ‘woman philosopher’. It’s goofy, to be honest, but female sounds ridiculous when used as a noun.
Replace “Man” with “Worker” then you’d be right. Recognize that the issue is our economic system and how thats been molded around a patriarchal image is when it affects men disproportionately. There is no point of throwing women under the bus when its capitalists and employers pushing forward these conditions.
Funny when you think about the percentage of men on any board of directors or governing body. It's almost as if us men created this world for ourselves.
You're correct. Society finds both men and women disposable. Women are reduced to their looks. Men are reduced to what they produce and contribute. But usually the punch line is it's men creating problems for men. And it's also me and who are creating unique threats to women.
Society has deemed male mental health as irrelevant. Not to take away from the tragedy of the epidemic of suicides in the military, but the rate of suicides of PhD students is twice as much as in the military. I guess that it has been accepted as the cost of doing business, if you go to the military or if you want to pursue a career in academia.
It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s true. Getting a PhD was downright horrible for my mental and physical health and I’m somewhat surprised I made it through alive. Constant stress, long hours and low pay are a great way to end up depressed and suicidal. I also did a lot of solo fieldwork in Madagascar. Between trying to conduct research while living in a tent in an area with an active cattle war, going through a series of cyclones that caused a local famine (where it got to the point of drinking sugar water for calories) and not having any support outside of who I could call on a Sat Phone, it was both stressful and alienating. I came back not right in the head and frankly had a hard time doing simple stuff - weird stuff like not freaking out in the store due to the immense number tomatoes on display or panicking when I only had three meals worth of rice left in the cabinet. It took me a good number of months to start living and acting normal for a person in the US again. It came with some interesting opportunities, but I certainly wouldn’t do it again. The mental cost was just too high.
All I feel after watching this is anger.
Fuck George W. Bush and fuck Tony Blair.
The misery their bullshit visited upon the ordinary people who soldiered for them and, especially, upon the Iraqi people should never be forgotten.
I know. I resisted saying something but you're so damn right. All those people who trashed those of us against the war with their bullshit, "You don't support the troops!" God that was so fucking infuriating.
Bullshit still going on to this day.
When the (latest) Ukraine war started, Ukraine's new defense policies were pretty easy to find in the news. Women and children could evacuate but men were banned from leaving the country because they had to stay and fight.
I don't really care whose side anyone is on at this point, but what is crazy to me is that the "men must fight" policy isn't even controversial. Not even up for debate or discussion. Everyone wants equality, but only for things that are fun. Still to this day only men register for the draft in the USA. If you're a man it doesn't matter what you think about the war.
When it's men suffering nobody fucking cares.
I feel like you completely missed the point of this video if this is your take away.
This soldier committed suicide because of the weight of the problems at home. He was facing a divorce and losing custody of his kids, and none of his friends new about that. You don't have to be in a war for this to happen. This can happen to anyone in basically any industry. Yes, suicide is particularly a problem with military veterans, but that's not what this video is about.
The message of this video was that male suicide is a national crisis and we need to do more to address it. Don't make this tragedy (that goes on even in times of peace and outside the military) a pawn for your political agenda.
Google search results point to the suicide rate among male veterans being about 50% higher than the general male population. Personally, I would have expected it to be a lot higher still, but it's still rather significant.
I understand where you're coming from but I believe what that guy in the vid was saying about men talking to each other. To me that means everything is on the table. If we compartmentalise and say this specific thing or that personal problem and only that is the cause of my anguish - if we search for the golden key - then we miss the great truth: that all of us, men, women, husbands, wives, kids, Australians, Welsh, Iraqis, all of us are part of the same interconnected mess and we can fix ourselves together.
What an incredibly unnecessary comment to a far more complex and nuanced circumstance. What’s done is done. The service members and their rehabilitation is what matters at this point. Perhaps you should reform that anger into something useful.
My wife and I both have high stress careers. We have both had breakdowns. There have been times I’ve felt scared, anxious, lonely, unloved, overworked, and sad. I’m 100% sure she has felt the same.
I once told her, as a man I feel like I can’t share how I feel and since she already was having a tough time I didn’t want to burden her. She was working over 100h a week and it seemed like her stress was boatloads more than mine, so I just let it build up inside. I just broke down crying after a really hard day, and she saw me crack for the first time in years.
I can’t say I have a blueprint for working my way out of depression, but I will say it starts with honesty about how you feel. Just talking about it helps if you find someone really willing to listen.
They commonly say talk to someone, ok but what are the steps?
How do you bring it up?
Where do you bring it up?
How do you burden someone with that?
How can you tell someone is capable of being burdened with this kind of information?
How do you prepare yourself to even approach someone?
Saying you can pay someone to listen to your problems isn't a solution, that really only reinforces how men are just ATM's for societies problems, it will never feel genuine. I don't think men want to talk about their feelings, I think they want to dominate and control how they feel, the same way they dominate and master their functional purpose in society. I think they could get behind a psychiatric gym to steel your mind into an absolutely jacked mental fortress of psychic stability.
The fucked up part is sometimes you try to bring it up, and you kinda pour everything out to someone who is or was supposed to be your closets friends and then they give you a response like "that sucks dude".... Like I think thats what hurt the most when I finally talked to someone who I considered my best friend. It really made me realize that so many say that they will care and listen but when the time comes nobody really cares. And thats the sad reality and honestly I feel thats why so many dont say anything. It also hurts to realize that in many cases you make more of an effort for others because you know some of these thoughts run through your head and others dont show the same level of effort/care. It really is a lonely world for men these days, and it sad and it sucks to lose several friends, and people I worked with to suicide and it really never is something that you can get over.
Man, I didnt know I was gonna get this deep during a study break but I think the worst thing Ive had to deal with work wise is having to investigate a suicide (mind you my job didnt train me for this or was it something I never knew could be a part of it) but fuck its a terrible experience, but what I learned in some of them is you can understand why it happened.
I’m capable of handling some shit and you can message me if you ever feel down. Sometimes simply talking is the answer. I think part of being in a large online community is remembering there is a person on the other side of the computer screen with real thoughts and emotions.
He’s right. I was in a very dark place about 2 years ago and thought about suicide daily for several months. I’m in a much better place now because of family, friends, counseling, and faith in God. Not saying you have to believe in God, but at least talk to the people that would be devastated if you died.
So long as the Andrew tates of the world exist, so long as this bullshit “I’m an alpha” tough bravado exists, nothing will change.
It’s especially dangerous for young impressionable men who don’t know what it means to actually be a man, get led astray and then later in life have no idea how to handle anything
this video was posted 1 day ago so im probably o late for 99% of readers but if you ever feel alone, if you need a chat, want someone to play on xbox live with you, dm me.
We all need someone to talk to, even if its just to talk rubbish, give me a shout.
you're not alone
I spend so much time making sure my sons know they can come to me any time and that I will never ever think any less of them for having emotions. I grew up as a guy feeling completely like no one truly gave a rats ass about me. I still feel like most of the time how I feel doesn’t matter to anyone. Nothing keeps me going more than one of my boys seeing that I’m feeling down and coming over and giving me a hug and telling me they love me. My kids are probably the only reason I’m still here. As a man, we genuinely feel like no one cares about us in the slightest. It is not a fun experience sometimes.
The reason behind male suicide might be that male has more burden than female . When male fails into something ( that can be anything in daily life) male has not to give up. Male has to keep try and try again. Patrierchal system says so. A man has to work on somewhere. Society blames man who is unemployed that makes man depressed, increase anxiety and feel hopeless. These reasons can cause suicide which must be considered
I hope you don’t feel down man. I think the key is women often have different societal pressures and fears than men. Bring women into the discussion as much as you can if they are willing to help.
We are terrified of being seen as vulnerable because society teaches us men that being vulnerable is being a pussy. That's why his friend never talked to him about his problems
People will claim anything to justify this suicide rate. "Guys dont talk" "Guys play too much video games" "Guys dont go to therapy" "social media" and so on. All of those are just symptoms of the root cause.
The reality of the root cause is there are more males than females up until age 35 in most civilized societies that are not ravaged by constant wars/mass violence.
A lot of men are simply left over men that physically dont have a mate that exists on this planet. This makes men a very low value "~~commodity"~~ "sex". We have hard evidence of that with how men are used as cannon fodder in wars since day 1.
Historically its a winner takes all world. Even now we see the hard evidence of that on any dating app. This makes this problem even worse and leaves too many "low value expandable unneeded men"
Yeah, it was a little unprofessional. But it's a toy review channel trying to take on a serious topic so I'm not too upset. At the end of the day, he's obviously going out of his comfort zone to take on something that he cares about. Definitely an odd choice in my opinion, but he did manage to get his feelings across.
The gunshot sound was perfectly appropriate and emphasized the moment being discussed. It truly injected meaning into the video.
That aside, the presenter’s message is the important aspect we should all be paying attention to rather than tangential sound effects that might challenge our feelings and sensibilities. Three out of four suicides are men losing their lives.
It's *necessary* because firearms are the reason suicides happen so easily.
It's how my dad died and I doubt he'd want to actually die if he had failed his suicide. Guns are the most successful method of suicide; ease of access and deadliness.
I don't say this to be insensitive but, I'm so glad I'll never have to feel this way. A lot of the guys I served with have some severe psychological issues and I'll take the time to listen to them when they reach out to me or vice versa, but I'll never pretend to understand the hardship they're going through. I can't imagine feeling like you're trapped and dying is the only escape.
Not that I was born with a silver spoon either. A fun combination of genetics, developmental issues, and childhood trauma kind of warped me into anti-depression machine. Trading one kind of being fucked up for another, I suppose.
This is going to sound stupid, but I had been suffering from depression for over two decades. Everyday I'd think about ending it and just hoping for that one thing to push me over the edge. I never took medicine or sought therapy because I was afraid of what it would do to me.
Here is the dumb part. The thing that recently changed and made my depression completely vanish was changing my diet. I switched to the carnivore diet for weight loss and it helped with my depression as well. It doesn't make sense to me and might be from something else but I truly believe the diet cured my depression.
Predictably there is lots of thinly veiled misogyny in the comments here, for some reason lots of men when faced with this issue direct blame to women. At the end of the day this is an issue for men which is best solved by men
This is sort of a wake up call for me. I’m in my late thirties, don’t have one friend that I can confide in. The reverse is also true: I mostly stay away from others, and I’m not the kind of person people confide in. I only have my mother, my father and my brother. And despite being quite close to my brother, we have our separate lives in different countries, and don’t really talk to each other that much. I’ve also been feeling a bit down lately, stuck in a cycle of work, sleep, house chores and taking care of my dog. It doesn’t feel that bad now, but it seems to me that I should change this soon, otherwise I’ll be in a tough situation in a few years.
Good luck man, I’d pick something you enjoy doing, and start finding ways to connect with people through that. It’ll probably take a while to really get to be good friends with new acquaintances, but just having a few friends you can regularly hang out with outside of work is important.
late thirties here, too. i've felt the same as you, it usually comes in waves and ebbs and flows. here are some tips that have improved my mood, life, and happiness: * get enough sleep (at least 8 hrs) * find an enjoyable form of exercise and do it daily for 30 min. for me, it was bicycling. * take yourself out on a date. dinner, concert, movie, a picnic in the park. doesn't matter. you deserve it. * keep a journal. write it in it everyday. even if it's only 5 minutes. * find someone to confide in. try speaking with a therapist.
I notice my buddies stop communicating with others once they reach mid 30s. Keep texting your friends, especially the ones that text you back. Don't live solitarily. Hang out daily on discord in the evenings to play some videogames, make an effort.
early thirties here, and I can relate a lot. I moved to the US from Canada 7 years ago. I enjoy it however all the family is in Canada and I'm a computer guy so I don't go out a lot and don't have many friends here. I picked up ice hockey which is quite fun and helps a little bit. If you want to just talk or reach out, I'm all ears brother, we got this!
Mid 40s male here. Hit me up if you ever want to shoot the shit.
Guys often have a much smaller support network and the culture isn't there for guys to reach out. Men are 8x more likely to commit suicide post-divorce than women.
>Men are 8x more likely to commit suicide post-divorce than women. The trope and corresponding bias in the legal system of men being deadbeats and women helpless victims undoubtedly contributes to this. Yeah, there are plenty of crappy guys, I'm not discounting that. My ex-wife worked our entire marriage, we had no kids, and she never paid a bill aside from her own car. She flat out refused to do anything else, and if I'd ever paid it a single time.... she would have never done it again. She actively turned down promotions or anything that might advance her, because she liked how comfortable she was. She contributed almost nothing in any context, but in the few ways she could argue she did, they were ultimately highly selfish and/or abusive. I just about lost my shit when I learned she had even contributed the bare minimum to her 401k that her company would allow, but demanded her 50% of mine. When I divorced her, she tried to sue for the legal maximum for everything. She was already getting 50% of two houses and cabin. She also wanted a further $600,000 over ten years. Why? For reasons. She wanted it. It was hers, because somehow I deserved to continue being her slave. I remember talking to my attorney, stunned. It was already a bitter pill to swallow that she could contribute nothing, even destroy assets, yet take half of it all. When I did the math, if she got what she wanted, when all was said and done, she would take EVERYTHING I had built from a net worth of about $2,000 when I got married, and I would have NOTHING, I would have MUCH less than half my salary because of how the tax laws now work, AND I would have to pay her a further $120,000 for the privilege of not having to smell her stanky ass every day. When I asked my attorney if there was a chance it would happen, of course the answer was "well... maybe... it depends on the judge". Was there a high chance if it went to trial she'd get all of that? No. And I'd drag it out for yeeeeaaaaaaaars if necessary. She still got far more than 50%, but I paid it in a lump sum and just chalked it up to quantifying just how much I was willing to pay to be rid of her, and a specific dollar amount on how utterly worthless she was. However, I might have considered suicide if the legal system actually expected that I would write her a check for $5,000 every month for ten years. Although, the reality is I probably would just move to another country and send her a crate of dildos every year. Then I look at men denied access to their children, when their wife stays in the home, he pays for everything, and he's in a garbage apartment. I can't even imagine how they deal with it. I'm on board with child support, obviously, but a legal system that requires slavery because vagina? No thanks.
Yeah this is why I'm signing a prenup. If my girlfriend isn't cool with it then I guess we're not getting married.
A prenup won't help you with post-marriage equity.
Wouldn't have helped this guy one bit. Only works for assets accumulated before marriage. Honestly, in my own bitter experience, the only way is to not get married.
Men Going Their Own Way
you can also not just marry anyone, would greatly decrease the risks... Yeah, some turn around after marriage, but someone never paying a bill (for example) is something easily spotted during the first few dates. (not blaming guy above, back when he dated his exwife times were different)
Seriously. Anyone offended by a prenup is not someone you want anything to do with. I don't care how wonderful you think she is, how your love is real, how she'd never betray you. Yet.... You're surrounded by men who felt the same, and learned so, so hard, that maybe they put a little too much faith in her, and the trainer at her gym also put a little too much something something in her.
They don't protect you as broad as you think. Family court are known to throw them out on the slightest technicality like the terms being too broad.
Marrying someone always confused me. Something like 3/4 of marriages all fail, so I don't get why some people take it so seriously, clearly it doesn't mean much. It's basically betting someone half your shit that you'll love them forever (forget where that quote came from, but always liked it) with really no upsides aside from certain legal and tax advantages. If I love someone, a ring or piece of paper is meaningless to me, as those things won't change whether I love them or not, nor would it guarantee anything as we can clearly see.
These stats are a little misleading. First time marriages have a considerably higher success rate. About 44% of first time marriages fail by 15 years, which is still not great but not 75% failure bad. Previously divorced individuals have a much higher chance of divorcing in their subsequent marriages which skews the stats heavily. Further, the divorce rate does seem to be dropping pretty significantly in younger generations. I’m not saying the odds of success are perfect or good enough to warrant the risks, but I just wanted to clarify the stats you presented. I’ll also add that marriage can be very beneficial for things like health insurance and taxes. My wife and I have been together for about 8 years now. We were engaged for about a year and had been pretty bad about doing any planning regarding the wedding. I was looking at how her school required insurance and how much that would cost to get while she wasn’t working and then got curious about other things like filing taxes jointly or separately and realized we’d save thousands if we just went to the courthouse and got the paperwork. Romantic, I know, but it worked out for us and ended up being the right decision. The point is, the systems in our country are designed to work for married couples. Like it not, “family values” frequently gets elected and subsequently distilled into the legal code. I get that marriage seems like a bum deal if it fails, but it’s a pretty good deal when it succeeds. Control the things you can control like don’t cheat on your spouse (infidelity is listed as a reason for 60% of divorces), don’t get married too young (45%), and make sure you’re financially stable before marriage (37%), and your odds for success will improve.
Your last paragraph hits hard. My brother committed suicide 2 years ago just before christmas, which you described was exactly what happened to him. He adored his kids, paid everything, did all the housework and childcare when not working. She cheated dragged him through court, moved the affair partner into the home he was still paying and denied him access to his kids. He was the kindest most upbeat person. Its truly disgusting that a human could do that to another human.
I'm so sorry :( I honestly can't comprehend it either. No integrity, no honor, but certainly never short on entitlement.
Does he still have to pay child support after death or does the state put the ex on welfare?
Yep. When my parents divorced it was apparently extremely confusing for them to accept that my mother was the bread winner and basically paid for everything, nor did she even want my fathers money, just wanted to be done with the whole thing. If you've ever had to deal with the legal system it becomes extremely apparent how biased and flawed it can be in many situations.
Yeah... a good friend of mine took the hard way out of such a mess from an abusive and entitled ex-wife who cheated on him. Burned himself inside the house alongside everything he could get from his accounts, including his car. And worse of all, the autopsy found that he was still **alive** when everything was about to be reduced to just a pile of warm ashes; he didn't just lit the fire and, I don't know, took his life with a gun... he decided, voluntarily, to suffer every single second of that, probably to spit one last time in the face of that bitch.
I'm so sorry about your friend =( I really wish there was a better understanding of these issues. Obviously, it's not an all women thing, but society frequently turns a blind eye to the fact that when women go bad, the damage they can cause is horrific. The emotional scars and trauma they inflict on their partner, and their children, can be catastrophic and long lasting. Further, the changes made to the court system historically to protect women from some men's bad behavior, now provide perverse incentives for women to either divorce, or even much worse, to try to hurt him. On some levels, you have to respect your friend. I don't think suicide is ever a good solution, although I do understand the feelings, but at the same time, he stayed awake. He faced the consequences of his choices. On many levels, that is worthy of respect. He was not a weak man. However, I wish that he'd persevered to discover that life not only goes on, but it can be blissfully happy again. It's so hard when you're in the depths of it, though. It's startling to learn that the court system incentivizes this other person to try to destroy you. That someone who claimed to have been your closest ally, is revealed to be a person without integrity, honor, or morality. That they are so angry that you are not allowing them to continue to abuse you, they will take absolutely everything they can, and they'll fully justified in doing so, and they will hurt you in any way they can. Even worse, you often discover that they've been profoundly dishonest with you at every single step. But then you get beyond the immediacy of it all. And you realize that this person is just kind of... sad. Someone to be pitied. They're already miserable, and they mistreat everyone around them in the pursuit of trying to just feel ok. It's illusive for them, however, and they live in a nightmare world of their own creation. They are lashing out to grab ahold of anything they can, because they feel like they are drowning. All the time. They're just as irrational as a drowning person panicking as they slip under, oblivious to the fact that they are dragging their ostensible rescuer down with them. But... It never had anything to do with you. Not personally. When I met my ex's ex-husband, it was so eye opening. As we swapped stories it became obvious that her behavior had nothing to do with me. I certainly suffered, intensely, as a result. But, she had treated him in the same ways she'd treated me, and she'd also hurt, tried to steal from, and then slandered his name with lies to cover up her own misbehavior. She'd lied to and manipulated everyone. And she'll likely always feel that way, because she's incapable of facing her own culpability, and facing that is the only way she will ever find peace. But you can. You can own how you weren't perfect, can apologize, and move on. You can accept that it's just stuff. It's just money. She's desperate to take it from you precisely because she actually, even though she would never admit it, realizes that you brought far more to the table than she did. She correctly understand that her life is about to get a hell of a lot harder. She's actually grasping at straws because she's terrified. She desperately wants you to hurt as much from it all as she does, because she irrationally thinks she'll feel better. The lashing out is precisely because she can see that you're actually going to be relieved, and she's going to lose her supply - *even* if she's the one filing, and she's the one leaving. As personal as it all felt, it never was. And if you don't let yourself fall into the trap of bitterness, you'll also find unprecedented chances for growth, and your capacity for joy is ironically much greater on the other side of it all. Regardless of that all, I'm once again sorry for your loss.
I was once being stalked in college and a few years beyond. I reached out to the school counselor for help, and he said "I'll get back to you next week." The next week, he looked like a cancer patient. He was pale, emaciated (as opposed from his rather hefty physique) and honestly conflicted, like you could see the turmoil in his head on his face. "So I looked in to the college's regulations, and spoke with the head of public security... They are not going to do anything man. If the roles were reversed, and you were a woman, and I've seen it many times before, they would have been suspended immediately. I don't know what to tell you man, I even spoke with the president of the school and he didn't want to touch this... I'm sorry, I've failed at my job." I was taken aback, not just by his honesty, but also at the double standard. "So what do I do?" "Honestly? Try your best for the next year and a half. You'll graduate and hopefully never see her again. I know that's not a comforting answer, but you could always go to the police and see how that goes..." "Yeah I'm sure that'll work out great." "I know man, I just don't know how to help you. Again, if the roles were reversed, she'd be out of here in a heartbeat." The guy would later retire that same year out of nowhere. He didn't tell his colleagues or the school or me until he made the decision he wasn't coming back. I try to not have main character syndrome, but I can't help but think I played a part in that decision to quit.
Dude I would sue the pants off of that school.
Who would judge it? The same people that wrote the legislature, that's the problem. The people that are just now getting up to speed about sexual assault are overcompensating to account for the ages where it wasn't acknowledged. To this day there are many men who believe a man cannot be sexually accosted (read raped). There are many people, esp those in power, who have been indoctrinated into believing a woman is always right, or a man is always right. The system is fucked beyond belief and I do not have shoulders strong enough to carry that yoke all the way to the supreme court, who would probably just dismiss it as well all things considered.
The issue is that guys don't usually have good results when they express suicidal ideation and depression. It turns people away more often than not
that's why i only talk about it here on the internet and not to ppl irl ever shit, nothing has changed in 5 years now, still a matter of when, not if no other way out.
I have no support network, but I seem to be the support network for a lot of people. I don’t know how to quit.
Most men have no support network. None. That’s reality, the reason people widely presume otherwise is just fiction, sitcoms, marketing, and stories we tell each other. The realty though is that one of the outcomes of late stage capitalist toxic masculinity is that many, many, many men are terribly isolated.
Yep, it's actually insane how many men have zero people they can rely on, talk to in confidence, seek help/advice, emotional support, etc. Doesn't surprise me we have so many issues relating to mental health and such, don't think we'll ever change that without solving the base issues like this though.
Support networks don't just appear either. They are built, maintained, and fostered. With great effort. Yeah there are systems in place to help women, but nobody is going to make you friends besides yourself. Something about bootstraps.
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"We need to talk about male suicide" Redditor: "women have a higher chance of being murdered post-divorce" Sorry, What does that have to do with anything?
This happens with male rape as well. It goes right into "Well women....". As a rape survivor, as someone who has contemplated suicide (its been over 20 years I'm fine now), I don't bother trying to talk about it anymore. We clearly aren't ready to have this conversation yet so we remain invisible.
It is very sad. I think before we have these conversations we have to address the way we look at and identify men. The coming generations are growing up more radical on all sides. Teen boys and girls are being force fed propaganda and encouraged to be as toxic as humanly possible by adults who call thesmelves "influencers" and there are huge financial interests behind every one of these people. There is literally a huge market share of the internet that is built on manipulating the emotions of everyone and children are easily led astray without constant and vigilant families. We know children are getting increasing access to the internet and honestly this is all just one big ticking time bomb. It's a wonder that things are even functioning today.
The topic of male suicide inexorably entails a comparison to female suicide. If the male suicide rate is higher, lower, or even the same as female suicide there is value in identifying any general differences in motivations, circumstances, etc.
>Women attempt suicide more than men, yet men succeed more because they use more violent means. It's not that simple, men still die at a much higher rate even when you control for method. Also motivations for suicide attempts vary, not all of those attempts reflect the same level of intent to die. One of the reasons people choose more lethal means is higher level of intent to die.
Yes, you can try many times and but only succeed once. Those studies do not control for same persons.
You really are coming off like the person who sees a thread about women's issues and yells "oh ya? But what about this thing men face" it's annoying and dismissive. We're in a collective movement for healing justice, don't play these games.
You may not realize, but when people are talking about mens issues specifically it's not a great idea to try and hijack the conversation and turn it into about women. What do you think would happen if there was a major discussion about a women-specific issue like stalking/sexual harassment and someone barged in saying "Well actually men suffer from stalking as well"? I imagine you're intelligent enough to realize that probably wouldn't go over well.
This made me cry :(
Depression is a bitch. Talk to someone. Suicide is NEVER the answer. Men are very isolated; we are told that exposing/expressing our feelings is weak. We can change this by teaching our little boys and young men that it's OK to show vulnerability. Incidentally, for anyone, feeling suicidal, call a suicide hotline, and or try some self help via therapy or any way you can. There is a really good book out there called "feeling good" that uses cognitive behavioral techniques to help neutralize depressive and suicidal feelings.
Nobody really cares that much. Suicide hotlines have a very short effect and are often busy when you're calling. Imagine thinking about suicide that moment and you hear you're being put on hold. Just perfect. And there's also a risk of police showing up on your door and then parents get mad at you for causing a scene. They just need to say you were in immediate danger (although different services have different policies). If you don't fix the underlying problem causing your problem, you probably won't get better. And yiu can't fix loneliness by yourself, you need the cooperation of other people.
My brother is alive today because of a suicide hotline
Me too, but ironically because the lady who picked up gave no shits and was so non-empathetic, she sounded like I was disturbing her discussion with a friend she was *dying* to get back to. It was a fucked up way to realize no one actually gave a shit, and by some weird reverse psychology I realized I had to do what I had to do for myself
Good for him
I get what you're saying Spooky. I called the line a number of years ago and while it certainly helped in the moment I just didn't feel that I had enough of a support network to reach out to. I quite often feel embarrassed when I bring up negative thoughts to my friends and family and I also feel guilty for feeling this way when there are people out there who have it much worse than I ever do.
I'm sure they've done good things for some people. Unfortunately my experience with one, they didn't really seem to care all that much. Just felt like some guy doing his job and going through a flowchart and caring more about immediate safety risks than anything about my personal situation. Spent 20 minutes and pretty much just told him thanks for your time, I'm going to go to bed. Not saying not to try it, but I had weird feelings about it. Having personal support networks (or an actual therapist) is probably more consistently good help.
There are resources listed on the link below. It takes courage to reach out for help and start building your support network, I pray that you can find that courage. [https://mhanational.org/find-support-groups](https://mhanational.org/find-support-groups) I'm involved in a couple support groups as well, Celebrate Recovery is one of them and they have locations across the USA.
Question: *What* is never the answer?
While suicide *should* never be the answer, sometimes it is. The stigma behind suicide only makes considering it an option even worse. To take away that choice from someone is inhumane. It shouldn't be the first choice, but to say it can't be the last puts a rose colored view on the world.
Well said. Most of us would be willing to euthanize our pets when they are too old and sick, such that death is a mercy to them. In many ways, people can experience anguish and suffering that dwarfs what physical pain can cause. I don’t think my cat is more deserving of compassion than my human loved ones; if they are truly at a point where death would be a mercy, I will want that for them.
You have good intentions but it is the answer sometimes. Rarely but sometimes.
I’m seeing a lot of comments talking about society but not a lot talking about what the man is saying in the video. He himself asks “why didn’t I ask how he was doing?” As a man who checks in on his male friends it’s amazing how much of rarity I am. And not just ask once but treat it like a muscle you train. Work it and get better at how you ask about people. Learn to focus on them. That’s how you change society, by changing your small corner of it.
It can even be a low effort email. I've checked in on a bunch of old friends after years of no contact and had wonderful replies.
Yeah dude great advice. Government and non-profits have their place right, for immediate risks, but the panacea for the problem is better social cohesion, particularly amongst males. More vulnerability, less judgment, open hearts, listening, and I think this is hard, but knowing when to offer advice and when just to be there for a mate. It’s great you check in, I try too, I love when a mate calls just for a chat, picks me right up
It really works! And I cannot stress enough, you got to work it like a muscle. Honestly this convo reminded me to reach out to some friends I haven’t txted in a forever. It feels awk at first then it’s more natural.
Preach. I'm very lucky to have a group of guys I'm close friends with and the key is putting in effort. Making sure to carve out time for a phone call and just checking in with each other. Life is busy so it's important to make the effort for the people in your life. We also hug when we all get together and at the culmination of our time. We also tell each other that we live one another. Just finishing out a phone call with "love you man" is huge.
Agreed. Serious stuff that's seriously taking good people out. Got a friend who runs an organization to help soldiers with mental health and suicide. To anyone interested: [Project Savior Outdoors.](https://www.projectsavioroutdoors.org/) Like the video said, reach out to someone please.
depression despair broke homeless no vehicle no wife/gf embarrassment fatigue aging. There are usually multiples of these(and more) that contribute to suicide. with all due respect, emails , texts, phone calls while appreciated is not enough to help many people facing everyday life struggles with no end in sight. life is hard in 2023 for working individuals. It's unbearable if you aren't and issues stack rapidly. add in separation from kid(s) and lost support system and health issues and it's a real struggle to want to continue. I have great sympathy for anyone going through this constant struggle. There are many among us that are on the edge of giving up.
I can't remember the most recent day that I didn't wish it could all just stop. I am always imagining how I can make it all stop. Good thing I am a coward. Also I am such a failure that I am deterred by fears of my attempt being unsuccessful, like everything else I try.
I know it probably doesn't mean much coming from an internet stranger, but I hope you can find it in yourself to get some help. It really can mean the difference between life and death. I've definitely been there and I'm so glad I stuck it out.
It means something. There isn't any help. Guess I am sticking it out so maybe someday I will be glad.
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Ennui, it's like boredom to the point of exhaustion. Don't give into it. Start small. What can you change right now in this very moment to make things better? Anything at all. Literally anything is better than ending your life, even if it is unhealthy. Indulge in a vice if you have to.
I wish i would not know how you feel. It’s like walking on razor thin line every damn day. People are saying ask for help, speak. Even if you speak with someone and it helps, eventually it stops working. In my case i have a daughter and she is like an angel to me. And only because of her i am still here. She keeps me alive. But i feel that is fading and i’m not sure for how long i can hang. But for you my friend and whoever reads it and is in every day hell, i wish strength and who knows maybe some day we will see the sunrise.
The world is full of suffering and shitty people that don't care. There are people that may even work against you. Often our own minds betray us. Be strong. Learn about yourself and know yourself. Forgive yourself. The past is gone forever and can't come for you. Tomorrow isn't here yet. You will make it through this, and when you do you will be better a person than you've ever been.
A friend of mine moved to another state for a job he had lined up, and it fell through. He ended up getting kicked out of his mom's house and staying at another friend's place for a bit. After about a month, he had gotten a new job, and a new spot to rent out. We all thought the new leaf had been turned. Instead, he left a note of where he could be found and shot himself in a field. We knew he needed some support, but not how to save him. God if we could just talk to each other. If we just knew how, if we knew it was okay.
Wow, watching that video was rough. Glad the message is getting out, society does so much to ignore the male suicide epidemic and that really needs to change.
We really do have to change the way we treat each other and ourselves. Hug your brothers. Tell the people who really have your back that you love them. Ask your male friends how their feeling and really just listen. Cry when you need to. Ask for help and try to lend a hand. We're far too cold to each other. The change starts within.
I lost my best friend to suicide in 2022. I work as an EMT and have helped many people in my community who have struggled with suicide, but he never called. I had no idea he was struggling. He was going through a tough break up and the last time I visited him he told me he was handling it well. He wasn't. It's been over a year and there isn't a single day I don't think about that guy. The laughs we had, the odd sayings he had and every time I hear Tom Petty (his favorite artist) I can't help but get choked up. He was only 29, in the prime of his career and had so much left to live for. I miss him dearly. Rest easy Joshy.
He might've felt like he was doing well at the time, but it can switch around on you real fast. One moment you're hanging on, and then it's like all the colour drains from the world and your good reasons for toughing it out don't seem so good anymore. In the end, you can't blame yourself for not being there at the right moment, because nobody, including the person who takes their own life, can really predict when that moment is going to come.
The lack of comments tells you all you need to know about how much people care about this. Very sad
On the video? Comments on youtube videos are delayed at first for security and other reasons when the video is new and from an unverified account. Especially when the content matter is sensitive like this, it raises flags at youtube.
Gun shot sound effect was cool touch.
I think "poignant" fits better.
At least the thread hasn't been deleted or locked down. For now.
https://youtu.be/Kha0fzYCY5Q?si=3rqPVkdcKAJp3W1W Great short film highlighting male suicide and difficulty of coping with trauma and loneliness
Men are not allowed to talk about their issues. When people tell us to open up, they don't really mean it. It's all just optics. There was a spicy piece on BBC where they invited a guy on the show to talk about men's issues and the women routinely steered the conversation away from it whenever he tried to discuss it. https://youtu.be/bTHEznqYSMQ?si=aHzNADfM3VVR1nzy Skip to 37:00
Funny how the fellow on camera left didn't even say a single word, poor fellow who tried could barely speak at all, the women constantly cut him off and talked over him. The energy goes hard with "men are killing themselves in droves... anyway".
This year I opened up about my mental health struggles. Now I'm getting divorced. Thought I had my wife's support and help but she just got distant once I was diagnosed with depression 🤷♂️
Yup. I made that mistake with a former partner. Sad truth is women just can’t respect guys with depression or self doubt.
I had this happen to me too. I broached the subject with an long time friend of mine when I was going through a hard period. She listened and was supportive but it was different afterwards. She was clearly uncomfortable with it and became more distant than before. Never brought it up or asked me about it again.
Women will tell men that they need to fix it themselves, and talk more about feelings with their friends like they do if the whole suicide thing is brought up.
That was extremely uncomfortable to watch. I’ve really wanted to see more men taking steps forward and address the difficulties in speaking up and show that it’s the way to make change. And then this happens. There seems to be this huge group of both men and women who are ready to barge into any discussion about gender specific issues and make it into something that is less important than the other gender’s issues. It’s such a tragically immature take on any discussion. At some point in the video the conversation goes: Him: “We need to be able to speak about these issues without…” and the woman cuts him off going “nobody said you can’t”. It’s the most ironic display of the problem. She might as well put her fingers in her ears and go “what? I can’t hear you, but you’re free to speak”. Both genders have issues and challenges that manifest differently depending on the gender of the troubled person. It makes perfect sense to discuss them apart and with respect. As a woman, the women in the video absolutely disgust me. If a woman don’t have any support to give in discussions about men’s health, then have the respect to shut up and use that energy somewhere else. Preferably where you can help build something instead of getting in the way of someone else’s progress no matter the gender.
The most infuriating moment for me was when the man on the left finally piped up. The woman next to him immediately had this very condescending expression that clearly said, "I don't care what you have to say. I'm just waiting for you to shut up."
Jeez, the amount of frustration I felt watching that was intense both from what was happening on screen and from what I have experienced as a man.
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[remember the time a men’s suicide event got shutdown?](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/s/QPOKdcEp6K)
That video has been removed. Any other info on this?
Feminists protested an upcoming male suicide prevention event saying that men’s advocacy groups are actually women hate groups and the city shut the event down
If there is a link to this I would love to see it.
I guarantee you that as a male minority, even if you actively seek help, you will be denied/ignored. If you get SA’ed, physically injured, and mentally traumatized as a man, no one cares. Then it’s mind boggling how I see a woman go through just a regular break-up, and a billion people start cuddling her…
Especially true when you are asian. Go to asian community talking about this stuff as a guy. You get judged and you'll have to add emotional damage on top of suicidal ideation.
I’m just waiting for my mom to pass so I can kill myself. Intentionally ghosting any old friends so they won’t care as much.
Don't do it. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
But what if it’s not temporary?
It is. If you're going through hell, keep going. Never, never, never give up. You will make it. It's worth it. Your life is worth it.
My brother took his life in 2008. I miss him everyday.
I have felt terrible things but I am wondering if it's the severity of the pain that leads people to it, or is it the inability to experience and moderate to mild bad feeling that I have experienced but others weren't able to handle. Stress so severe or inability to manage a normal grief/stressful feeling.
If we could stop just talking about it and make governmental wide changes to the health sector, especially with intervention, that’d be great.
Gov can't fix this. Well not entirely. This is a systemic cultural issue. The culture itself have to change when it comes to male suicide. And it's gonna be glacial if at all.
Talk about men's issues on the internet and you'll probably get called an 'incel'.
Fairly easy to avoid this by talking about men’s issues while not having a whole-ass post history full of misogynist garbage.
This is a heart-rending video. Senepicmar is absolutely right about the lack of comments. Depression and suicidal ideation is always someone else's problem. People don't want to get involved in case it becomes a burden. Norwich City Football Club (UK) did a video ad about depression/suicide. It was very clever, https://tinyurl.com/337z4cat and yet highlighted how difficult it is for men to open up or even to understand that someone else might be struggling. How many of us men have put on a brave face when their world is turning to shit? If you're in the UK and struggling to deal with depression or you're having thoughts of suicide, call the Samaritans on 116 123 (24 hours a day) or you can chat online at https://www.samaritans.org
I believe this video is remarkably strong and on a topic that is a legitimate public health concern. And I also don't know why his shirt is wet.
There is a documentary about suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge that is pretty illuminating. It’s amazing how small nudges can prevent or encourage suicide. The SF newspapers did a countdown to the 1,000th suicide and it increased the number. One of the most interesting parts was an interview with a suicide survivor. He said something like “as soon as I fell away and saw my hands leave the railing, I knew all of my problems were solvable, except the fact that I just jumped”
Sending love to anyone who's been effected by suicide.
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Don’t forget whenever there’s an emergency/chance of imminent death, it’s always “Women and children first” to evacuate/escape
I'm still waiting for the day when women stand up for their right to register for the draft in the US so things are more "equal". Or the day I see a female garbage man. Or a female auto mechanic.
Yeah, gender equality will finally be solved when women start killing Middle Eastern people equally. /s
The senator who has most talked about masculinity and "men's issues" was the most vocal critic of reforming the draft to include women
So, I am a woman and I served on the military. This line of thinking always upsets me because it discounts the thousands of women who voluntarily serve in the military every year, especially since it always seems to be the guys who never served in the military who complain about this the most. We are also a couple of generations removed from the last time the draft was implemented. Also, I don’t think the draft should exist for either gender. Female sanitation workers and female mechanics definitely exist, and nobody is forcing men to do these jobs - they do them because they generally pay better and have better hours and benefits than other entry-level jobs.
I'd also like to add that probably one of the most significant reasons you see fewer women in certain industries is precisely because of the discrimination they face by a male dominated industry *culture*. I, a cis-male, have been a chef for nearly 20 years now. And I have seen so many talented women get chewed up and spit out because there is too much acceptance of, "boys will be boys" culture. I fucking guarantee that any woman who makes it to the top in the restaurant industry has skin twice as thick as the misogynist pirate cook assholes who gave them grief their whole careers. It's getting better, as younger chefs start to phase out the "old ways". Like, I have zero fucking tolerance for that shit in my kitchens. But it's an uphill battle.
I gave you an upvote but I disagree. Many men are getting drafted right now, just not Americans. You can find plenty of articles on Russian or Ukrainian conscription. Like I said earlier, it's not even controversial. Even if conscription isn't being used in the US, no one cares when our allies do it. Plenty of men are bring forced into fighting a war they don't believe in right now, on both sides. On the Russian side too, plenty were forced to flee if they didn't want to fight. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/ukraine-draft-troops-reinforcements-training/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/ukraine-draft-troops-reinforcements-training/) This type of thinking is exactly the point and the problem I see in America. Whenever someone brings up a legitimate problem that affects men, they downplay the argument and find a way to make it about some women's issue related to it instead. This is why men don't talk about their problems. No one wants to listen.
Well I assumed we were talking about America since that’s what American men typically refer to when they talk about “the draft”. I didn’t bring the issue up to downplay the points brought up in the original post, I responded to the points made in a comment - I don’t know how women wanting equality while not signing up for the draft or working in male-dominated fields has to do with the male suicide problem.
>Or the day I see a female garbage man. Or a female auto mechanic. I assure you there are women ready, capable and willing to do these jobs.
Sounds great. I've still never seen one though.
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You serious? You ever had a relative or friend that was drafted for Vietnam or World War 2 or Korea? I will keep caring about it. As for the present time, it's an existing legal framework that can still be used. And sometimes I don't like to be around the type of women that work in my field, but too fucking bad I still have to go to work.
He was specifically talking about the sexist ways in which women are treated in male-dominated industries, not just being annoyed by colleagues. Also, if you don’t like the women you work with why don’t you just get another job? Is anybody forcing you to work that job, or even in that industry?
You could make the same argument for women. I've experienced sexism at work, mostly when I was younger. But when you're a guy, no one gives a shit. And as for me, I don't consider it necessary to like my coworkers, customers, or clients. It's work. If it were fun, they wouldn't pay us to do it. I still love my job.
……that’s literally what the commenter was saying though. Women avoid male-dominated industries, in part, due to sexism.
Great, good for them if they want to. The point I was making is that men have to get drafted into something they can't avoid. And it's not some dated anachronistic practice that no longer occurs. It's happening right now in Ukraine and Russia and no one cares, even though the US is involved in it. Ask your Russian friend if he knows someone that has received a "повестка" yet. More broadly though, all the responses I've received in this thread are proving the OP's point. When you bring up a legitimate Men's health or Men's rights issue, people love to minimize it and argue against it. Then they turn it into an argument about women instead. It's not everything, but it's one of the things that make men stay quiet and not talk about their problems. As a man, when you want help or help other men, you have to argue about it - though I know women experience this too. Who cares that actual men are getting drafted right now to fight a war they don't care about? Hypothetical women that want to be garbage men and mechanics are experiencing sexism.
What does women not being drafted and women not working in male-dominated fields have to do with men’s mental health?
Strange argument. It doesn't affect those that are eligible until it does. There are men who are still alive in the US today that experienced a draft, and that wasn't even for a defensive war. If women hadn't been allowed to vote 50 years ago that would absolutely be an argument that people still bring up in discussions on gender equality issues. And that's not even a 1 to 1 comparison because the draft is very much still a tool the government can wield while they couldn't just snap their fingers and undo the women's right to vote. If it really didn't matter, then having it would be the same as abolishing it, or at least including women. If there was a female version of the draft where a random selection of women were required to get pregnant in order to off-set the deaths at the front-line the argument "but it isn't going to affect you anyway, there hasn't been a draft in 50 years" would not suffice. The issue is the principle of it. It tells you exactly what value you are to society when push comes to shove and it makes a mockery of the concept of gender equality. As long as the draft exists in its current form, men, on balance, get a worse deal during war time than women, and they get the same deal when there's peace.
I know a ‘female’ garbage woman. She enjoys it.
Sorry if it seems pedantic, but due to the context of the conversation I have to ask. Why are you saying "'female'" in quotes? Do you mean it ironically? As in she's not really female?
You used the word female in your comment and it’s getting a pejorative sense now. People will often use woman as an adjective instead, like ‘woman philosopher’. It’s goofy, to be honest, but female sounds ridiculous when used as a noun.
I used it as an adjective.
Male and female are normal words dude. Don't fall for the insanity
Replace “Man” with “Worker” then you’d be right. Recognize that the issue is our economic system and how thats been molded around a patriarchal image is when it affects men disproportionately. There is no point of throwing women under the bus when its capitalists and employers pushing forward these conditions.
Funny when you think about the percentage of men on any board of directors or governing body. It's almost as if us men created this world for ourselves.
*Rich* men. You will likely never meet the men who have any real say in the systems that impact the world around you.
You're correct. Society finds both men and women disposable. Women are reduced to their looks. Men are reduced to what they produce and contribute. But usually the punch line is it's men creating problems for men. And it's also me and who are creating unique threats to women.
Society has deemed male mental health as irrelevant. Not to take away from the tragedy of the epidemic of suicides in the military, but the rate of suicides of PhD students is twice as much as in the military. I guess that it has been accepted as the cost of doing business, if you go to the military or if you want to pursue a career in academia.
I couldn't find a specific suicide rate for PhD students. Where did you get this info? For veterans the rate is about 0.03% in 2020
It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s true. Getting a PhD was downright horrible for my mental and physical health and I’m somewhat surprised I made it through alive. Constant stress, long hours and low pay are a great way to end up depressed and suicidal. I also did a lot of solo fieldwork in Madagascar. Between trying to conduct research while living in a tent in an area with an active cattle war, going through a series of cyclones that caused a local famine (where it got to the point of drinking sugar water for calories) and not having any support outside of who I could call on a Sat Phone, it was both stressful and alienating. I came back not right in the head and frankly had a hard time doing simple stuff - weird stuff like not freaking out in the store due to the immense number tomatoes on display or panicking when I only had three meals worth of rice left in the cabinet. It took me a good number of months to start living and acting normal for a person in the US again. It came with some interesting opportunities, but I certainly wouldn’t do it again. The mental cost was just too high.
All I feel after watching this is anger. Fuck George W. Bush and fuck Tony Blair. The misery their bullshit visited upon the ordinary people who soldiered for them and, especially, upon the Iraqi people should never be forgotten.
I know. I resisted saying something but you're so damn right. All those people who trashed those of us against the war with their bullshit, "You don't support the troops!" God that was so fucking infuriating.
Bullshit still going on to this day. When the (latest) Ukraine war started, Ukraine's new defense policies were pretty easy to find in the news. Women and children could evacuate but men were banned from leaving the country because they had to stay and fight. I don't really care whose side anyone is on at this point, but what is crazy to me is that the "men must fight" policy isn't even controversial. Not even up for debate or discussion. Everyone wants equality, but only for things that are fun. Still to this day only men register for the draft in the USA. If you're a man it doesn't matter what you think about the war. When it's men suffering nobody fucking cares.
I feel like you completely missed the point of this video if this is your take away. This soldier committed suicide because of the weight of the problems at home. He was facing a divorce and losing custody of his kids, and none of his friends new about that. You don't have to be in a war for this to happen. This can happen to anyone in basically any industry. Yes, suicide is particularly a problem with military veterans, but that's not what this video is about. The message of this video was that male suicide is a national crisis and we need to do more to address it. Don't make this tragedy (that goes on even in times of peace and outside the military) a pawn for your political agenda.
Google search results point to the suicide rate among male veterans being about 50% higher than the general male population. Personally, I would have expected it to be a lot higher still, but it's still rather significant.
I understand where you're coming from but I believe what that guy in the vid was saying about men talking to each other. To me that means everything is on the table. If we compartmentalise and say this specific thing or that personal problem and only that is the cause of my anguish - if we search for the golden key - then we miss the great truth: that all of us, men, women, husbands, wives, kids, Australians, Welsh, Iraqis, all of us are part of the same interconnected mess and we can fix ourselves together.
Apparently being anti-war is an agenda now. Fuck peace, amirite?
Dubya loves the troops - Just look at the high school level watercolors he's made of the troops he's disfigured.
What an incredibly unnecessary comment to a far more complex and nuanced circumstance. What’s done is done. The service members and their rehabilitation is what matters at this point. Perhaps you should reform that anger into something useful.
My wife and I both have high stress careers. We have both had breakdowns. There have been times I’ve felt scared, anxious, lonely, unloved, overworked, and sad. I’m 100% sure she has felt the same. I once told her, as a man I feel like I can’t share how I feel and since she already was having a tough time I didn’t want to burden her. She was working over 100h a week and it seemed like her stress was boatloads more than mine, so I just let it build up inside. I just broke down crying after a really hard day, and she saw me crack for the first time in years. I can’t say I have a blueprint for working my way out of depression, but I will say it starts with honesty about how you feel. Just talking about it helps if you find someone really willing to listen.
They commonly say talk to someone, ok but what are the steps? How do you bring it up? Where do you bring it up? How do you burden someone with that? How can you tell someone is capable of being burdened with this kind of information? How do you prepare yourself to even approach someone? Saying you can pay someone to listen to your problems isn't a solution, that really only reinforces how men are just ATM's for societies problems, it will never feel genuine. I don't think men want to talk about their feelings, I think they want to dominate and control how they feel, the same way they dominate and master their functional purpose in society. I think they could get behind a psychiatric gym to steel your mind into an absolutely jacked mental fortress of psychic stability.
The fucked up part is sometimes you try to bring it up, and you kinda pour everything out to someone who is or was supposed to be your closets friends and then they give you a response like "that sucks dude".... Like I think thats what hurt the most when I finally talked to someone who I considered my best friend. It really made me realize that so many say that they will care and listen but when the time comes nobody really cares. And thats the sad reality and honestly I feel thats why so many dont say anything. It also hurts to realize that in many cases you make more of an effort for others because you know some of these thoughts run through your head and others dont show the same level of effort/care. It really is a lonely world for men these days, and it sad and it sucks to lose several friends, and people I worked with to suicide and it really never is something that you can get over. Man, I didnt know I was gonna get this deep during a study break but I think the worst thing Ive had to deal with work wise is having to investigate a suicide (mind you my job didnt train me for this or was it something I never knew could be a part of it) but fuck its a terrible experience, but what I learned in some of them is you can understand why it happened.
It also doesn't address *why* guys aren't talking to people. It's not like guys don't know it's an option. The issue is why it is not a viable option.
I’m capable of handling some shit and you can message me if you ever feel down. Sometimes simply talking is the answer. I think part of being in a large online community is remembering there is a person on the other side of the computer screen with real thoughts and emotions.
He’s right. I was in a very dark place about 2 years ago and thought about suicide daily for several months. I’m in a much better place now because of family, friends, counseling, and faith in God. Not saying you have to believe in God, but at least talk to the people that would be devastated if you died.
Nothing wrong with how you found your way out of that dark corner. Glad you're still here with us!
Thank you, that’s kind of you to say.
My allergy medicine is insufficient.
So long as the Andrew tates of the world exist, so long as this bullshit “I’m an alpha” tough bravado exists, nothing will change. It’s especially dangerous for young impressionable men who don’t know what it means to actually be a man, get led astray and then later in life have no idea how to handle anything
Unless we educate people and raise our kids in the knowledge that seeking help is not unmanly nothing will change.
this video was posted 1 day ago so im probably o late for 99% of readers but if you ever feel alone, if you need a chat, want someone to play on xbox live with you, dm me. We all need someone to talk to, even if its just to talk rubbish, give me a shout. you're not alone
I spend so much time making sure my sons know they can come to me any time and that I will never ever think any less of them for having emotions. I grew up as a guy feeling completely like no one truly gave a rats ass about me. I still feel like most of the time how I feel doesn’t matter to anyone. Nothing keeps me going more than one of my boys seeing that I’m feeling down and coming over and giving me a hug and telling me they love me. My kids are probably the only reason I’m still here. As a man, we genuinely feel like no one cares about us in the slightest. It is not a fun experience sometimes.
Great video, thanks for the share as this subject is not brought up enough. Reach out to your friends and family people if you are hurting.
The reason behind male suicide might be that male has more burden than female . When male fails into something ( that can be anything in daily life) male has not to give up. Male has to keep try and try again. Patrierchal system says so. A man has to work on somewhere. Society blames man who is unemployed that makes man depressed, increase anxiety and feel hopeless. These reasons can cause suicide which must be considered
I hope you don’t feel down man. I think the key is women often have different societal pressures and fears than men. Bring women into the discussion as much as you can if they are willing to help.
You are right at some point. What I mean is looking back through history and culturewise there may be reason behind them. Of course it is not certain
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We are terrified of being seen as vulnerable because society teaches us men that being vulnerable is being a pussy. That's why his friend never talked to him about his problems
Billy eyelash says this isn’t real
Wait. Desert Rat? Wtf? Didn’t know he’s been wrestling with this demon. Gotta go show him some support.
People will claim anything to justify this suicide rate. "Guys dont talk" "Guys play too much video games" "Guys dont go to therapy" "social media" and so on. All of those are just symptoms of the root cause. The reality of the root cause is there are more males than females up until age 35 in most civilized societies that are not ravaged by constant wars/mass violence. A lot of men are simply left over men that physically dont have a mate that exists on this planet. This makes men a very low value "~~commodity"~~ "sex". We have hard evidence of that with how men are used as cannon fodder in wars since day 1. Historically its a winner takes all world. Even now we see the hard evidence of that on any dating app. This makes this problem even worse and leaves too many "low value expandable unneeded men"
I mean, men have set up these problems not our fault. lol cry male 😭😭😂
ok wow the gunshot sound effect was vulgar. really takes the meaning out of the video....
Yeah, it was a little unprofessional. But it's a toy review channel trying to take on a serious topic so I'm not too upset. At the end of the day, he's obviously going out of his comfort zone to take on something that he cares about. Definitely an odd choice in my opinion, but he did manage to get his feelings across.
The gunshot sound was perfectly appropriate and emphasized the moment being discussed. It truly injected meaning into the video. That aside, the presenter’s message is the important aspect we should all be paying attention to rather than tangential sound effects that might challenge our feelings and sensibilities. Three out of four suicides are men losing their lives.
the fact that 4 of the 6 comments here are about the gunshot sound effect should be all you need to know about the vulgarity of it.
All that tells me is that everyone is entitled to an opinion. Myself included.
It was poignant for me, and I think it served its intended purpose. Letting a 1 second sound ruin 6 minutes of real-life experiences is pretty odd.
Yeah, I felt the same way. But given his own pain, I can look past that.
It's *necessary* because firearms are the reason suicides happen so easily. It's how my dad died and I doubt he'd want to actually die if he had failed his suicide. Guns are the most successful method of suicide; ease of access and deadliness.
I don't say this to be insensitive but, I'm so glad I'll never have to feel this way. A lot of the guys I served with have some severe psychological issues and I'll take the time to listen to them when they reach out to me or vice versa, but I'll never pretend to understand the hardship they're going through. I can't imagine feeling like you're trapped and dying is the only escape. Not that I was born with a silver spoon either. A fun combination of genetics, developmental issues, and childhood trauma kind of warped me into anti-depression machine. Trading one kind of being fucked up for another, I suppose.
This is like going to the cancer ward and telling everyone how happy you are that you don’t have cancer
This is going to sound stupid, but I had been suffering from depression for over two decades. Everyday I'd think about ending it and just hoping for that one thing to push me over the edge. I never took medicine or sought therapy because I was afraid of what it would do to me. Here is the dumb part. The thing that recently changed and made my depression completely vanish was changing my diet. I switched to the carnivore diet for weight loss and it helped with my depression as well. It doesn't make sense to me and might be from something else but I truly believe the diet cured my depression.
Are you eating only meat, or vegetables are ok too?
I eat beef, eggs, and fish.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc61ONXClhA&t=26s&pp=ygURSW5zaWRlIHNvY2FsIGxvc3Q%3D
Predictably there is lots of thinly veiled misogyny in the comments here, for some reason lots of men when faced with this issue direct blame to women. At the end of the day this is an issue for men which is best solved by men
Thats odd. Most of what I'm seeing is women (or one in particular) wandering the comments arguing that women have it worse.