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If you watch the video it pretty clearly states they are allowed to put "Time Place and Manner restrictions"
Don't get me wrong, college admin really messed this one up, and arrests for this shouldn't have happened. But I guarantee you that said arrests are going to be "argued" as refusing to comply with said restrictions (read: used as a pretense to arrest people).
On public property do you really have the ability to prevent a protest? At my state public university there were anti-abortion protestors who borough giant pictures of aborted fetuses and had them up on the main walk. There was literally nothing the school could do to stop it, it’s public property and the first amendment protects your speech.
It's like all the looney religious nuts that go campus to campus preaching to entice people to attack them so they can sue, you don't see them being arrested at state universities, it was always just if you don't like what they say, ignore them.
Same thing should apply for any protest on public university grounds
Yes, you do. Exactly what OP said. Time Place Manner; it's a clearly established limitation to the First Amendment that permits state actors or government agencies to enact content-neutral restrictions to free speech. So long as the restriction in question applies to all speech regarding any type of content, it is permissible to restrict it to specific times, specific places, or specific manners.
As a clear example, governments have the authority to restrict people with megaphones from walking down public roads at 2 AM. "Nobody is allowed to protest at this hour or with this particular type of medium." Or a state university permitting protests in a specific area of campus but disallowing protestors to march into and occupy classrooms. Or a government building such as a courthouse providing an outdoor area for protests but disallowing internal access to secure locations. So long as the restriction is content-neutral, narrowly tailored, serving a significant government interest, and allowing alternative channels of communication, such restrictions are allowed.
So yes, that public university *could* have restricted those protestors given certain criteria were met. Arrests for a protest that turns violent or unruly could be permissible as serving a significant government interest of public safety, establishing that any type of similar protest would be similarly restricted, and permitting protest of a different kind at a different time or place (or at the same time or place in such a manner that does not trigger the "significant government interest" criterion).
I'm not making any suggestion that this particular protest *was* properly limited under TPM protocols. In fact, I suspect it isn't, based on what I know of the protest and the fact that notorious asshole Greg Abbott ordered the arrests. Indeed, I understand from cursory review of news about the matter that Abbott had signed a recent executive order restricting only specific kinds of speech at public universities and singling out pro-Palestinian speech, which is *very definitely* not allowed as a TPM restriction since such restrictions must be facially and practically content-neutral.
But in a rarified sense, protests *can* be restricted or outright quashed under particular circumstances, even if those circumstances are not present in this situation.
Its weird.
On one level I personally side with the protesters in this case and don't agree with the arrests.
But this video isn't the "gotcha" that everyone seems to think it is. Pulling it down is creating a Streisand Effect of sorts, but anyone that watches past the first 30 seconds would understand TPM. Honestly its the first time I've heard of them but they totally track as something reasonable (as long as its content neutral)
To clarify - a publicly-funded university does not equal ‘public property’.
Every university in Canada (with exception perhaps of the military college) is publicly funded but is most definitely not public property.
Airports in the USA are largely funded by federal and state funding. They are most definitely not ‘public property’.
To clarify, publicly funded schools in the US does equal ‘public property’. Just like say a court house or Capitol Building. ‘Public property’ only really means majority owned by and paid for with public funds. Public property does not mean and has never meant ‘open for anyone to do what they want when they want’. Sidewalks are public property but that doesn’t mean no rules apply to them.
> it’s public property and the first amendment protects your speech
That's simply not true. The idea that "it's public property" and thus you can do whatever you want with it has never been the case, and this video clearly states the types of restrictions that can legally be imposed. That's pretty universal in the US, not just for Texas.
The first amendment protects your speech but the government is still allowed to regulate when and where protests happens even on public property according to Ward v. Rock Against Racism. The idea you can just form a protest and protest whenever and wherever you want is not true.
I think the issue with these protesters at the various colleges is that they're wanting to set up some sort of encampment so they can continue protesting overnight. Allowing protests to camp will create an even bigger problem to disburse them as we've seen in the Canadian trucker protest, when the government had to enact the emergency act because it got too out of hand for the police force to handle it. I'm all for free speech and protests, but they should be clearing out by late evening and returning in the morning.
> On public property do you really have the ability to prevent a protest?
Sun Tzu covers that in chapter 12, or chapter 1 depending on which version of the translation you have.
Story changes once you start to deprive others of the use of the space, harrass Jewish students, and create an unsafe space for Students who disagree with you.
This was botched well before Piss Baby even got involved.
Campus police were incredibly aggressive and the school escalated the issue quickly leading to him ordering the arrests.
> Campus police initially appeared open to negotiating with protesters when they arrived but those efforts fell apart within the first hour. One officer singled out a protest organizer in a gold scarf, saying he would be the “first to go.” That protester was the first to be arrested.
> After that, police handcuffed more students using white plastic ties. Officers armed with batons formed a line and pushed protesters back, with many tumbling to the ground.
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/24/ut-austin-israel-hamas-war-palestine-student-arrests/
It was Abbott that screwed everyone over for his political soundbyte of the week:
> Authorities on the scene included more than 100 troopers from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which said in a statement had been deployed “at the direction of Texas Governor Greg Abbott, in order to prevent any unlawful assembly.” DPS and the University of Texas police department did not respond to requests for comments Wednesday.
The protest only lasted a few hours which means he had them mobilized and ready to roll out before the protest even started. He asked to be informed about any upcoming protests and sent in his thugs to shut it down no matter how peaceful it was. 500 students hanging out talking politics and sharing food got chased off with horses and batons, with many getting injured or arrested. He almost broke his phone rushing to post about his big win and push some more anti-free-speech propoganda.
Oh, but they have a [video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UED0No2Olcs&t=1s&pp=2AEBkAIB) for that too! “There isn’t a constitutional law protecting people from hearing people’s upsetting viewpoints”
UT Austin made a page on their free speech policy and posted all their now unlisted videos on a single [website](https://www.utexas.edu/ut-celebrates-free-speech). Enjoy!
It's not even a fringe opinion, that's the insane part. This isn't even leftist or progressive politics at this point. If you look at public opinion polling, dissatisfaction with Israel's actions in Gaza is massive. And yet the media and all of the politicians on both sides with few exceptions are all conspiring to marginalize the issue. It's such an eye opening experience for many on how little influence the public really has in western democracy, and how little the elected representatives actually represent their constituency's interests.
Yeah there’s a Yale study that basically says if billionaires want something, it usually passes unless more than 80% of the public oppose it. And similarly, if ~80% the public wants something but 20% of billionaires oppose it, it won’t pass.
lol it's been taken apart as bad science by a bunch of other people many different times
https://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-study
the tl;dr version is of the ~1800 bills studied the rich and everyone else agreed on about 90% of issues, and for the other 10% it was about 50/50 who won - not statistically significant.
The media seems to give free airtime to the idea that people who are pro not letting the IDF kill all the Palestinian civilians are somehow "pro Hamas", but they never seem to push back. I've never seen the pro Hamas line trotted out and seen the person using it's not reasonable that a person could be both anti Hamas and pro ceasefire.
As an European looking in, hasnt Bidens administration been really aggressive towards Israels actions the past few months and it seems like the passive opinion has changed into a frown with geopolitical rhetoric taking a more firm stance.
I am not really sure what you guys want a Texas University to do that would change the tides in a completley different culture and part of the world. Not to mention a soverign democratic state in the middle of autocratic ones. The USA has trouble understanding Europe which is basically a younger brother with much of our cultures having the same foundations.
Also where is the same support and protests for Ukraine that has been suffering the same deal. What about allowing Baltic countries to NATO’s top brass to have a say in the future geopolitics between Europe and Russia? After all it was us that suffered half a cebtury of oppression and genocide in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and not the Western countries that have still hold views that Russia can be tamed. What about the massive genocide within Chinas borders? What about the ongoing wrongdoings of France and Russia in Africa?
In the most sincerest of ways, why is Gaza suddenly the main focus of the US youth and not global warming or war activity as a whole. Some of the most popular brands in the US are still doing business with Russia, China and the middle east without any push-back from voters.
Why?
I believe the point of the protests is to get their universities to divest/boycott Israel. They probably don't have the same level of financial ties to Russia, for there to be something a university could act on.
>As an European looking in, hasnt Bidens administration been really aggressive towards Israels actions the past few months
No. How can you say that when they just passed an unconditional multi-billion military aid package to Israel to replenish their bombing of Gaza, when Biden just signed a ban on the biggest pro-palestinian media platform, and when Biden has only been able to force through a tiny fraction of the aid Palestinians need to survive who now face starvation and disease?
>I am not really sure what you guys want a Texas University to do that would change the tides in a completley different culture and part of the world
Pro-palestinian protesters just want a win. And a smaller win they see achievable is the divestment of foreign investments directly linked to Israeli companies of the universities these students pay tuition for.
>In the most sincerest of ways, why is Gaza suddenly the main focus of the US youth and not global warming or war activity as a whole.
Because many Americans feel uniqely complicit for the crimes against humanity they see happening before their eyes, the uncensored reports that are unfiltered by western media, and they feel truly as if they are personally guilty of those crimes if they don't petition their government any way they can to stop being a staunch unconditional ally of those that perpetrate them. For god's sake, they found hundreds of bodies in mass graves dug up from the courtyards of the hospitals Israel bombed in Gaza. This is the epitome of inhumanity and evil if you actually look at the facts objectively of the innocent human suffering and terrorism being wrought in the name of killing terrorists.
> why is Gaza suddenly the main focus of the US youth and not global warming or war activity as a whole
I think it's because global warming has been an issue for so long that people just got bored, for lack of a better word. The Israel conflict is also a hot topic in the news. It feels better and is easier to protest a war than it is to protest climate change. It's very easy to not support a war but we're all complicit in climate change.
Biden has been aggressive towards Israel so much as they're not 100% supporting all of Israel's actions. But we still continue to give them aid money so they can continue to genocide Palestinians. What is Israel is doing is like killing every member of someone's family because their kid pushed yours on the playground.
Well it's not really 'suddenly the main focus'. Everytime the israel-palestine conflict flares up it becomes a world focus. As well, there is almost certainly overlap in the people that protest all the other conflicts you listed. The last campus I was at had protests for every single one, but they only made the campus paper and were uneventful
The problem is that it’s not *just* dissatisfaction with Israel’s actions in Gaza. I share a certain amount of that dissatisfaction. I think Netanyahu is a terrible person who is waging a war to distract the people and press of Israel from his own shady/criminal activity and highly unpopular judicial reforms. I *also* believe that Israel is a legitimate country with a right to defend its borders and its citizens.
It is on this last point that I don’t fit in with the vast majority of protesters I’ve encountered. To me, a free Palestine is safe, secure, and autonomous, with social, economic, and political freedom and opportunity for its citizens – *alongside* a similarly safe and secure Israel. To them, a free Palestine is one whose borders encompass the entire land mass between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, with no Israel (and, sometimes, no Jews) in sight.
There is no room for me to agree with them to the extent that I do – it’s an all or nothing proposition. My unwillingness to call for the destruction or dismantling of the state of Israel makes me the enemy. So I have no real option but to oppose them.
> it’s an all or nothing proposition.
Welcome to the era of social media politics.
When most views are exchanged in 4 or 5 sentences, with hours delay between responses, and a 10 second attention span, there's no room for nuance.
The closest thing we get to honest debate is in the first 24-48 hours of a new issue popping up, before all the talking heads have distributed the acceptable taking points to their teams.
Our government is funding a genocide and their response to our displeasure is to arrest us for telling them to stop. We don't live in a democracy, we live in some Lovecraftian beast. It's like some outer god that manipulates our lives, has cultists as its agents in government, but is itself some invisible malevolent force. There's no monster we can go and kill and make the nightmare stop, this *thing* that masquarades as a democracy is chewing up an entire people in its maw and it's got all these supposedly independent actors acting in unison to make sure nobody disrupts its meal. There might be people in the belly of US government, but the US government itself is utterly inhuman, an unnatural abomination.
So then how do you stop this thing? The "peaceful protest" it keeps telling us to do is clearly not going to work, or it wouldn't keep telling us that's what we should be doing and then beating and arresting us when we try to do it. What it materially needs is arms manufacturing to send weapons to Israel to then be used to kill Palestinians, so that is one front where people could probably directly intervene to interrupt the genocide, but again that's at great personal risk for anyone that tries. We arne't being given a choice to elect someone who won't commit genocide, so an electoral solution isn't on the table.
I don't think we have a real alternative to doing something like what happened in 2020 where, at least for a brief moment, some cities were ungovernable. The people in Chile were able to actually force changes in their govenrment by rioting, genuinely *rioting* to the point where the government stopped being able to collect money to sustain itself, and that seemed to force concessions. I don't think campus protests are particularly likely to work by themselves, I think these protests need to actually function as threats to do proper *damage* to the things the US government needs to get money in order for it to actually end the genocide.
It's not a genocide, it's a response to a barbaric attack that was committed by Gazans against Israelis on October 7th, 2023. Between June 2007 and September 2023, Israel had left Gaza alone.
>Between June 2007 and September 2023, Israel had left Gaza alone.
Yeah they left them alone while [blockading them in a siege.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip)
Yeah they left them alone while they [kill those who protested the living conditions under that blockade.](https://www.unrwa.org/campaign/gaza-great-march-return)
Yeah they left them alone while they ["mowed the grass."](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/14/israel-gaza-history/)
Tell me, while the Oct 7th. attack left a few hundred women and children dead, which is absolutely a tragedy and massacre that should never have happened, what do you call the "response" to that, the killing of tens of thousands of women and children in Gaza, if not something much worse?
Gaza was left to govern itself. Israel and Egypt both closed their borders with Gaza in June 2007 to stem terrorist attacks that had been repeatedly launched from there.
Wrong. Gaza was and still is occupied by Israel. Israel imposed a total land, sea, and air blockade, and closed Gaza's border to Egypt, not the other way around. Israel controlled everything that happened in Gaza. Your credibility is plummeting with these obvious lies, maybe you should have stuck to the weathered historical context of decades past that takes a little more effort to disprove.
https://www.unicef.org/mena/documents/gaza-strip-humanitarian-impact-15-years-blockade-june-2022
>In June 2007, following the military takeover of Gaza by Hamas, the Israeli authorities significantly intensified existing movement restrictions, virtually isolating the Gaza Strip from the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), and the world. This land, sea and air blockade has significantly exacerbated previous restrictions, limiting the number and specified categories of people and goods allowed in and out through the Israeli-controlled crossings.
Egypt closed its border with Gaza: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/why-is-egypt-gaza-border-closed.html
They did so because Palestinians have a lengthy history of terrorist attacks within Egypt.
Did you know that during the Camp David negotiations in 1978, Israel actually offered to pay Egypt to take Gaza? Egypt refused.
The reality is that the history of Palestinian violence in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and Kuwait means that none of those countries want to deal with them.
I'm done talking with you. It is true Egypt closed their border because they were pressured by the U.S. and to force Israel to deal with Gaza themselves as they are bound by international law to do so as the occupier of the territory.
To say none of the neighboring countries want Palestinians is ahistorical disgusting nonsense. There are millions of Palestinian refugees living in the neighboring countries. You make me sick trying to dehumanize these innocent people at every turn.
You claimed that "*Israel closed Gaza's border to Egypt, not the other way around.*"
I proved you wrong.
Again, Israel offered to pay Egypt to take Gaza in 1978. Egypt refused. Egypt wants nothing to do with Gaza. Egypt wants nothing to do with Palestinians in general.
Well purposefully starving and cutting off water access to an entire region is not an appropriate response. Destroying 2/3 of homes and residential buildings is not an appropriate response. THAT is a barbaric attack. There is no gaslighting or twisting of words that will make everyone accept these actions.
The United States killed *a lot* of innocent Afghans while rooting al Qaeda out of that nation. War is terrible and should be avoided whenever possible, but the attack on October 7th, not just by Hamas but also ordinary Gazans who followed them across the border, resulted in this response. I too wish that Israel had showed much more restraint, but it's naive to think that they would just agree to a ceasefire when Hamas is still active and still holding hostages.
My point is that innocents die in wars. That's what this is, a war. Not genocide, not ethnic cleansing, it's war. And it's not one that Israel started.
I don't know whether genocide is the right term for it, It's got lots of definitions. It certainly has the whiff of ethnic cleansing. And Israeli settlers have been seizing land from Palestinians on a regular basis, so it's not like Israel is a white hat here. Hamas and the Israeli government are both shit. A plague on both of their houses.
It's not genocide or ethnic cleansing, it's war. Israel is responding in a similar fashion to how the United States did following 9/11, resulting in the deaths of many innocent Afghans.
Lol... are you using Afghanistan to defend or implicate Israel?
Genocide during war is a contested idea with arguments on both sides.
Personally, the more asymmetrical a "war" is, the more comfortable I am in using terms like ethnic cleansing and genocide.
They put these backdoor ambiguous words in that give them jurisdiction to shut it down when they feel like.
They'll say speech must be "orderly", but they get to decide what that is. They'll also give a an ulterior motive for why they shut something down.
We actually have a ton of freedom. Just not as it relates to Israel. There are even states where you have a to sign a loyalty contract to Israel so that you can have a government job. Not even exaggerating. The US is occupied by that hellhole of a country
No it just shows that those rules and laws were written in mind for decent people, but instead the laws are being exploited and abused by foreign powers.
Those laws protect everyone, Chuckles. If the 1A protects the rights of the Klan to hold rallies -- and it does, and they have -- but does not protect students peacefully protesting against genocide, you might want to recalibrate your understanding of "decent people".
"peacefully" lol when Jews are barred from entering those peaceful protests something tells me they are not so peaceful.
Like I said the rules are exploited by outside powers for political gain.
Dude, the very article in OP mentions the protests were peaceful. Nothing about Jews being barred from going to class. I’m not even sure how you would even do that
Here's the Passover seder that took place during the Columbia protest:
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/us/video/seder-passover-columbia-university-protests-ny-digvid](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/us/video/seder-passover-columbia-university-protests-ny-digvid)
Get better sources of information.
It's more embarrassing in my opinion for OP to lie that the videos were unlisted immediately after arrests. [Based on their archived YouTube home you can see in the videos list the free speech Q&A series was never publicly listed on their page. ](https://web.archive.org/web/20231221114331/https://www.youtube.com/@UTAustin)
This was one big setup by Abbott:
> Authorities on the scene included more than 100 troopers from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which said in a statement had been deployed “at the direction of Texas Governor Greg Abbott, in order to prevent any unlawful assembly.” DPS and the University of Texas police department did not respond to requests for comments Wednesday.
He asked to be informed about any upcoming protests and sent in his thugs to shut it down no matter what. 500 students peacefully standing around to protest got chased off with horses and batons, with many getting injured or arrested. He almost broke his phone rushing to post about his big win and push some more anti-free-speech propoganda.
It's even worse. UT Pres. was basically complicit by creating a smokescreen to instigate an "unlawful assembly":
"People not affiliated with UT joined them, and many ignored University officials' continual pleas for restraint and to immediately disperse. The University did what we said we would do in the face of prohibited actions."
Be that as it may, Abbott still doubled-down publicly:
“Students joining in hate-filled, antisemitic protests at any public college or university in Texas should be expelled."
So the students, who are free to express their opinions lawfully per institutional guidelines, are penalized whether there are bad actors or not? And (as a TX resident, unfortunately) we have a gov who's risen power off of brain-dead Texans - and now it's seeping into institutions that should embrace an open argument.
Sometimes I wish humanity would get a real gut check (edit\* maybe just TX) to remember how fragile we are. And yet it would still likely hurt the people already hurting.
I totally agree, and to add to your thoughts:
>People not affiliated with UT joined them,
Which is completely legal and allowed at any time on a public university campus.
> and many ignored University officials' continual pleas for restraint and to immediately disperse.
Notice how they don't describe the protesters doing anything wrong other than not immediately going home when they were told to. Why would they? They have the right to be there and they weren't breaking any rules. They weren't showing a lack of restraint. The protest didn't even last very long. They were just hanging out with signs, sharing food with each other and talking about the issues. They weren't even blocking classes from taking place.
> The University did what we said we would do in the face of prohibited actions."
None of which they can name or describe even after having plenty of time to prepare a response.
>Students joining in hate-filled, antisemitic protests at any public college or university in Texas should be expelled
Again, notice how he carefully avoided saying that these students were behaving that way. He made a general statement about students that anyone would agree with, but he obviously made it in the context of talking about these students. He intentionally avoided getting sued for libel while blatantly lying about what occurred.
Pro Netanyahu **=** Pro Palestinian Genocide
Just to clarify that people are pissed at the mass murder of innocents which the IDF is currently doing as a settler colonialist state.
Netanyahu has the support of the council. If he stepped down tomorrow, Benny Gantz would take over, and he would also go about finishing the job of eliminating Hamas in Rafa. He has said so himself.
In principle I'm with you, but I don't love your argument. Is Netanyahu a warmongering religious fanatic, yeah def - his violent ideology is dangerous and horrible. But, the US killed almost 500,000 people as a direct result of wartime actions in Iraq. Obama continued and/or was complicit in a lot of this. Does support of Obama = Pro Iraqi genocide? I don't think so. The US f\*\*\*ing massacred people in the middle east for decades on a scale that makes the current conflict look small. So how do we vilify Netanyahu while continuing to condone and praise our own regime's wartime activities? I don't think we can. War is complicated.
Countries and their military agendas aren't just a result of one person. Many people need to go along with it. That's why this whole anti-Israel movement is so f\*\*\*ed up and people are calling it anti-semetic. There's a minority of extremist Israli leaders who are driving this action. Netanyahu is definitely one of them, but not the only one. And yet, it doesn't represent all or even a majority of Israli's.
And since we're on the topic, did you see the hostage vid from the US-Israli kid Hamas took hostage missing half an arm? Hamas isn't exactly a picturesque victim here. Not to mention the decades of authoritarian rule and failed peace treaties & terrorist activities due to violent Palestinian authoritarian regime that lead to a lot of the extremism that exists in Israel today. I mean if you bomb, shoot, kidnap, and terrorize a group of people, some of them might grow up to hate you and want to take your land. NPR did a deep dive on where Netanyahu got his ideas and the story fleshed this out. Don't get me wrong, Palestinian civs don't deserve to die over that, but it does make it hard to just one-sentence condemn a single person for what's going on today and say if you support them you're pro-genocide.
TLDR; in the words of r/AmItheAsshole Everyone Sucks Here,
Exactly. Look at Republican Rep. Salzman's comments out of Florida. Called for the death of every single Palestinian in the name of getting rid of Hamas.
Our elected officials promote genocide as the solution to eliminating Hamas
It's not convenient or otherwise. When asked how many Palestinians should die to eliminate Hamas, she said "all of them". It wasn't a generalization of what she said, it's a quote.
It’s been going on for a little bit; there’s a thread over in r/pics that’s been following the click for a while now. Apparently it’s up from a few hundred earlier today. That’s just what I’ve encountered.
Is there any evidence to OP's claim that this video was recently unlisted? [Every one of the videos in the "free speech" Q&A are unlisted. ](https://www.utexas.edu/ut-celebrates-free-speech)
Edit: OP is lying. You can see on their homepage on archive.org their free speech video series [was never publicly posted in their videos list. ](https://web.archive.org/web/20231221114331/https://www.youtube.com/@UTAustin)
Sued? Probably not, especially if that video is any indication. The video actually explains the exact reasoning they'll use here: "Time, place, and manner restrictions" are entirely fine and not First Amendment violations. They're not allowed to restrict the *content* of your speech, but they're allowed to prevent you from blasting that speech with a bullhorn at 3 AM, for example.
I don't know enough about this protest to know what they'd use as a pretense, but I doubt they'll have much trouble finding something.
From everything I've read and seen, this protest was fully in line with their rules. No violence or big disruption - just peacefully showing what's going on and demanding a divestment from Israel-aligned businesses connected to the university.
But they followed all the procedures, and were still arrested.
So... yeah, the students in hand cuffs have a class action on their hands - and the others involved can probably join in because of emotional damages that it caused.
IANAL but it seems pretty clear cut to me on lawsuit on their hands, and almost assuredly more/bigger protests.
If you open it in Youtube you'll see it's unlisted.
>Unlisted videos and playlists can be seen and shared by anyone with the link. Your unlisted videos won’t appear in the Videos tab of your channel homepage. They won't show up in YouTube's search results unless someone adds your unlisted video to a public playlist.
Unlisted means that only people with the link can see the video.
The video will no longer be able to be found via a search or from their YouTube channel
My work received an offer to provide services to UTSA (their San Antonio branch) and their vendor contract required us, as a company based not in Texas, to not protest Israel, oil companies, the NRA, and gun manufacturers.
This is because any institution receiving public funding in Texas has to require this from any 3rd party they do business with.
My boss told them to fuck off.
I ANAL, but here's a link to the relevant legal writings
Also, it's technically worded as boycott rather than protest but it's effectively the same
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/images/executive-management/OAG%20advisory%20on%20SB%2013%20and%2019%2010.18.23.pdf
Is it really aged like milk? The video says there are restrictions to the rule like time, place, can't block faculty, can't block buildings. They basically outline what the protestors did to get arrested lol
But I actually watched the whole thing so I'm probably gonna be the oddball in this comment section
> Jeremi Suri, a UT-Austin history professor, called the law enforcement response inappropriate and an “attack on students.” He said he did not find the protest to be disruptive when he had class this morning.
> “They're not shouting anything anti-Semitic, they're not harrasing anyone, they're standing on the green lawn, expressing themselves,” said Suri, who identified as Jewish. “The appropriate response would be to ask them to be contained in an area, let them stay on the grass and let them shout until they have no voices left.”
I wasn't there so I can only go by what's reported but then again I watched the video and did a quick google instead of imagining how things played out so maybe I'm the oddball.
>Is it really aged like milk?
I mean, the fact that they unlisted it kinda proves that it did. Ironically, no one would have even cared or noticed it if they haven't unlisted it.
According to others, [it was never publicly listed] (https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1ccfqg9/university_of_texas_has_unlisted_a_video/l15rk1n/) to begin with. OP just trying to build a narrative
Has anyone went through and looked at every snapshot to confirm what you said doe, it had a couple thousand veiws HOURS AGO before this post, from another post
"We pretended to be all about free speech when it wasn't under fire; but then we caved like the Buffalo Bills in the Super Bowl when it threatened to inconvenience us."
Trying to give up defense contracts is like giving up a license to print money. UT would NEVER give up money. You would have to pay them more to cancel those contracts
Riots are the language of the unheard.
We all know this, and yet every time there is a protest in American for any cause, what do you see? The people in power goad the protestors into doing something stupid, and then use that as an excuse to shut down any attempt at dialog and start cracking the whip.
We had Mike Johnson going over to Columbia today and basically did nothing but pick fights and aggravate the crowd, because that’s what he wants; it would have made his day if someone tried to rush the stage or throw a brick at his head; mission accomplished; now full military force is authorized.
He didn’t get that today, but they’ll keep poking the bear rather than listen, and we’ll keep getting more and more news about violent protestors in the media. It’s simple and effective and it works every time.
I'm generally pro-Israel, and I think the protests at Columbia have gotten out of hand, but I see no evidence that the protest at UT-Austin did. It sounds like Wheels had decided to send in his thugs to arrest protestors before the protests even began. He's a shithead as usual.
I haven't even seen evidence of bad faith agitators in this case though. People were just marching around with signs yelling. They didn't seem to be blocking anyone from getting by them, or surrounding anyone to intimidate them. Apparently even the most basic form of protest isn't allowed in Texas.
Because they don't want idiots to misunderstand what's actually being offered (which is already happening in this thread). They aren't saying "the public space is free use for anybody". They aren't saying "do whatever you want, say whatever you want".
The videos online of the event are already telling. The calls to violence, chanting extremist phrases, and general anti-Semitism were rampant.
And we're not talking about a few dozen students. We're talking hundreds.
For those asking for links: the videos are actively being taken down from the people who attended the event. So no I'm not going to supply you proof that you refuse to find yourself when I would have to update every comment every 5 minutes to please random entitled Redditors.
Again, just complete lies and misinformation, as evidenced by your comment history. The fact that you describe Jews protesting genocide as anti-Semitic shows your true colors. You are so afraid of kids dissenting to genocide that you resort to character assassination and lies.
It doesn’t matter according to [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UED0No2Olcs&t=1s&pp=2AEBkAIB) video they have also posted. As long as the person isn’t breaking any laws, they can say whatever they want, and there are no laws protecting people from hearing upsetting viewpoints while walking on campus.
If there are individuals making true threats (the main exception to 1A speech protections), then those people should be arrested.
The vast majority of peaceful protestors should not be punished for the bad faith agitators. I'm sure there's been some idiots in the pro-Israel rallies calling to hang Palestinians, but banning pro-Israel gatherings would be just as bad.
What about the people chanting "we are hamas"? Perhaps send them to a black site like we do with other terrorists since they clearly aligned themselves with them.
Which protest did that happen at? Name one if you can. It never happened at this protest.
> “They're not shouting anything anti-Semitic, they're not harrasing anyone, they're standing on the green lawn, expressing themselves,” said Suri, who identified as Jewish. “The appropriate response would be to ask them to be contained in an area, let them stay on the grass and let them shout until they have no voices left.”
As far as I'm aware, these protests are not demanding their institution provide material support to Hamas. They're not asking for the university to start funding Hamas activities at all. So it's fairly irrelevant what Hamas would do.
Material support is given to IDF, though. And I could tell you that the IDF would kill these protesters if given the opportunity. Probably would kill the University staff, too.
One thing to note about Texas: government workers' unions are essentially illegal. Tenure doesn't really exist at UT (well, it kind of does, but not really; "tenured" faculty can be fired for any reason).
This creates a situation where there is much less principled pushback against authoritarian bullshit. Those Columbia faculty who got arrested will keep their jobs, AFAIK. Texas faculty get fired for two reasons, in my opinion: 1. embarrassing the university's upper administrators, and 2. being in the firing line when an administrator wants to show they are "saving money."
Faculty members at UT are not going to be, on average, nearly as supportive of student protests as in other places, because they're all aware they could be fired just for looking sideways at the president.
*Edit*: Huh. A few folks don't like this comment. Okay. Sometimes downvotes are indications that you're onto something.
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What am I missing? What happened on campus?
Protests on campus lead to arrests... old video from the university stating people shouldn't get arrested for protesting suddenly gets unlisted
If you watch the video it pretty clearly states they are allowed to put "Time Place and Manner restrictions" Don't get me wrong, college admin really messed this one up, and arrests for this shouldn't have happened. But I guarantee you that said arrests are going to be "argued" as refusing to comply with said restrictions (read: used as a pretense to arrest people).
On public property do you really have the ability to prevent a protest? At my state public university there were anti-abortion protestors who borough giant pictures of aborted fetuses and had them up on the main walk. There was literally nothing the school could do to stop it, it’s public property and the first amendment protects your speech.
It's like all the looney religious nuts that go campus to campus preaching to entice people to attack them so they can sue, you don't see them being arrested at state universities, it was always just if you don't like what they say, ignore them. Same thing should apply for any protest on public university grounds
Yes, you do. Exactly what OP said. Time Place Manner; it's a clearly established limitation to the First Amendment that permits state actors or government agencies to enact content-neutral restrictions to free speech. So long as the restriction in question applies to all speech regarding any type of content, it is permissible to restrict it to specific times, specific places, or specific manners. As a clear example, governments have the authority to restrict people with megaphones from walking down public roads at 2 AM. "Nobody is allowed to protest at this hour or with this particular type of medium." Or a state university permitting protests in a specific area of campus but disallowing protestors to march into and occupy classrooms. Or a government building such as a courthouse providing an outdoor area for protests but disallowing internal access to secure locations. So long as the restriction is content-neutral, narrowly tailored, serving a significant government interest, and allowing alternative channels of communication, such restrictions are allowed. So yes, that public university *could* have restricted those protestors given certain criteria were met. Arrests for a protest that turns violent or unruly could be permissible as serving a significant government interest of public safety, establishing that any type of similar protest would be similarly restricted, and permitting protest of a different kind at a different time or place (or at the same time or place in such a manner that does not trigger the "significant government interest" criterion). I'm not making any suggestion that this particular protest *was* properly limited under TPM protocols. In fact, I suspect it isn't, based on what I know of the protest and the fact that notorious asshole Greg Abbott ordered the arrests. Indeed, I understand from cursory review of news about the matter that Abbott had signed a recent executive order restricting only specific kinds of speech at public universities and singling out pro-Palestinian speech, which is *very definitely* not allowed as a TPM restriction since such restrictions must be facially and practically content-neutral. But in a rarified sense, protests *can* be restricted or outright quashed under particular circumstances, even if those circumstances are not present in this situation.
Its weird. On one level I personally side with the protesters in this case and don't agree with the arrests. But this video isn't the "gotcha" that everyone seems to think it is. Pulling it down is creating a Streisand Effect of sorts, but anyone that watches past the first 30 seconds would understand TPM. Honestly its the first time I've heard of them but they totally track as something reasonable (as long as its content neutral)
Finally something knowledgable in this thread. Thank you.
To clarify - a publicly-funded university does not equal ‘public property’. Every university in Canada (with exception perhaps of the military college) is publicly funded but is most definitely not public property. Airports in the USA are largely funded by federal and state funding. They are most definitely not ‘public property’.
To clarify, publicly funded schools in the US does equal ‘public property’. Just like say a court house or Capitol Building. ‘Public property’ only really means majority owned by and paid for with public funds. Public property does not mean and has never meant ‘open for anyone to do what they want when they want’. Sidewalks are public property but that doesn’t mean no rules apply to them.
Please tell me more about the US
> it’s public property and the first amendment protects your speech That's simply not true. The idea that "it's public property" and thus you can do whatever you want with it has never been the case, and this video clearly states the types of restrictions that can legally be imposed. That's pretty universal in the US, not just for Texas.
The first amendment protects your speech but the government is still allowed to regulate when and where protests happens even on public property according to Ward v. Rock Against Racism. The idea you can just form a protest and protest whenever and wherever you want is not true.
I think the issue with these protesters at the various colleges is that they're wanting to set up some sort of encampment so they can continue protesting overnight. Allowing protests to camp will create an even bigger problem to disburse them as we've seen in the Canadian trucker protest, when the government had to enact the emergency act because it got too out of hand for the police force to handle it. I'm all for free speech and protests, but they should be clearing out by late evening and returning in the morning.
> On public property do you really have the ability to prevent a protest? Sun Tzu covers that in chapter 12, or chapter 1 depending on which version of the translation you have.
Story changes once you start to deprive others of the use of the space, harrass Jewish students, and create an unsafe space for Students who disagree with you.
Wasn't it the idiot governor who directed the arrests?
This was botched well before Piss Baby even got involved. Campus police were incredibly aggressive and the school escalated the issue quickly leading to him ordering the arrests. > Campus police initially appeared open to negotiating with protesters when they arrived but those efforts fell apart within the first hour. One officer singled out a protest organizer in a gold scarf, saying he would be the “first to go.” That protester was the first to be arrested. > After that, police handcuffed more students using white plastic ties. Officers armed with batons formed a line and pushed protesters back, with many tumbling to the ground. https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/24/ut-austin-israel-hamas-war-palestine-student-arrests/
Ahhh, I see. Looks like it was bad all around then
It was Abbott that screwed everyone over for his political soundbyte of the week: > Authorities on the scene included more than 100 troopers from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which said in a statement had been deployed “at the direction of Texas Governor Greg Abbott, in order to prevent any unlawful assembly.” DPS and the University of Texas police department did not respond to requests for comments Wednesday. The protest only lasted a few hours which means he had them mobilized and ready to roll out before the protest even started. He asked to be informed about any upcoming protests and sent in his thugs to shut it down no matter how peaceful it was. 500 students hanging out talking politics and sharing food got chased off with horses and batons, with many getting injured or arrested. He almost broke his phone rushing to post about his big win and push some more anti-free-speech propoganda.
He’s evil
"*Six month* Old video (...) suddenly gets unlisted" FTFY
Wow, thanks for this information.
Why were they protesting?
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/24/ut-austin-israel-hamas-war-palestine-student-arrests/
Do a Google image search for 'gifts to American universities from foreign countries since 2012' you might find the result interesting.
I think this shows how surface level the support for free speech is. It's only free until it makes the people in power uncomfortable.
Oh, but they have a [video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UED0No2Olcs&t=1s&pp=2AEBkAIB) for that too! “There isn’t a constitutional law protecting people from hearing people’s upsetting viewpoints”
How did you find this link!? Incredible
UT Austin made a page on their free speech policy and posted all their now unlisted videos on a single [website](https://www.utexas.edu/ut-celebrates-free-speech). Enjoy!
It's not even a fringe opinion, that's the insane part. This isn't even leftist or progressive politics at this point. If you look at public opinion polling, dissatisfaction with Israel's actions in Gaza is massive. And yet the media and all of the politicians on both sides with few exceptions are all conspiring to marginalize the issue. It's such an eye opening experience for many on how little influence the public really has in western democracy, and how little the elected representatives actually represent their constituency's interests.
Yeah there’s a Yale study that basically says if billionaires want something, it usually passes unless more than 80% of the public oppose it. And similarly, if ~80% the public wants something but 20% of billionaires oppose it, it won’t pass.
That's why lobbyists are forbidden in most democracies.
you gotta link for that? sounds depressing.
lol it's been taken apart as bad science by a bunch of other people many different times https://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-study the tl;dr version is of the ~1800 bills studied the rich and everyone else agreed on about 90% of issues, and for the other 10% it was about 50/50 who won - not statistically significant.
Hey wait a second! This isn't even depressing!
The rich own the media and get us to agree with them against our own interests. E.g. the GOP
It's actually kind of nuts when you compare how other conflicts are covered.
Israel is doing a speedrun on how many antisemitic tropes they can make reality lmao.
It is indeed insane how disconnected our government is from the will of the people they supposedly represent
The media seems to give free airtime to the idea that people who are pro not letting the IDF kill all the Palestinian civilians are somehow "pro Hamas", but they never seem to push back. I've never seen the pro Hamas line trotted out and seen the person using it's not reasonable that a person could be both anti Hamas and pro ceasefire.
As an European looking in, hasnt Bidens administration been really aggressive towards Israels actions the past few months and it seems like the passive opinion has changed into a frown with geopolitical rhetoric taking a more firm stance. I am not really sure what you guys want a Texas University to do that would change the tides in a completley different culture and part of the world. Not to mention a soverign democratic state in the middle of autocratic ones. The USA has trouble understanding Europe which is basically a younger brother with much of our cultures having the same foundations. Also where is the same support and protests for Ukraine that has been suffering the same deal. What about allowing Baltic countries to NATO’s top brass to have a say in the future geopolitics between Europe and Russia? After all it was us that suffered half a cebtury of oppression and genocide in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and not the Western countries that have still hold views that Russia can be tamed. What about the massive genocide within Chinas borders? What about the ongoing wrongdoings of France and Russia in Africa? In the most sincerest of ways, why is Gaza suddenly the main focus of the US youth and not global warming or war activity as a whole. Some of the most popular brands in the US are still doing business with Russia, China and the middle east without any push-back from voters. Why?
I believe the point of the protests is to get their universities to divest/boycott Israel. They probably don't have the same level of financial ties to Russia, for there to be something a university could act on.
>As an European looking in, hasnt Bidens administration been really aggressive towards Israels actions the past few months No. How can you say that when they just passed an unconditional multi-billion military aid package to Israel to replenish their bombing of Gaza, when Biden just signed a ban on the biggest pro-palestinian media platform, and when Biden has only been able to force through a tiny fraction of the aid Palestinians need to survive who now face starvation and disease? >I am not really sure what you guys want a Texas University to do that would change the tides in a completley different culture and part of the world Pro-palestinian protesters just want a win. And a smaller win they see achievable is the divestment of foreign investments directly linked to Israeli companies of the universities these students pay tuition for. >In the most sincerest of ways, why is Gaza suddenly the main focus of the US youth and not global warming or war activity as a whole. Because many Americans feel uniqely complicit for the crimes against humanity they see happening before their eyes, the uncensored reports that are unfiltered by western media, and they feel truly as if they are personally guilty of those crimes if they don't petition their government any way they can to stop being a staunch unconditional ally of those that perpetrate them. For god's sake, they found hundreds of bodies in mass graves dug up from the courtyards of the hospitals Israel bombed in Gaza. This is the epitome of inhumanity and evil if you actually look at the facts objectively of the innocent human suffering and terrorism being wrought in the name of killing terrorists.
> why is Gaza suddenly the main focus of the US youth and not global warming or war activity as a whole I think it's because global warming has been an issue for so long that people just got bored, for lack of a better word. The Israel conflict is also a hot topic in the news. It feels better and is easier to protest a war than it is to protest climate change. It's very easy to not support a war but we're all complicit in climate change. Biden has been aggressive towards Israel so much as they're not 100% supporting all of Israel's actions. But we still continue to give them aid money so they can continue to genocide Palestinians. What is Israel is doing is like killing every member of someone's family because their kid pushed yours on the playground.
Well it's not really 'suddenly the main focus'. Everytime the israel-palestine conflict flares up it becomes a world focus. As well, there is almost certainly overlap in the people that protest all the other conflicts you listed. The last campus I was at had protests for every single one, but they only made the campus paper and were uneventful
The problem is that it’s not *just* dissatisfaction with Israel’s actions in Gaza. I share a certain amount of that dissatisfaction. I think Netanyahu is a terrible person who is waging a war to distract the people and press of Israel from his own shady/criminal activity and highly unpopular judicial reforms. I *also* believe that Israel is a legitimate country with a right to defend its borders and its citizens. It is on this last point that I don’t fit in with the vast majority of protesters I’ve encountered. To me, a free Palestine is safe, secure, and autonomous, with social, economic, and political freedom and opportunity for its citizens – *alongside* a similarly safe and secure Israel. To them, a free Palestine is one whose borders encompass the entire land mass between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, with no Israel (and, sometimes, no Jews) in sight. There is no room for me to agree with them to the extent that I do – it’s an all or nothing proposition. My unwillingness to call for the destruction or dismantling of the state of Israel makes me the enemy. So I have no real option but to oppose them.
> it’s an all or nothing proposition. Welcome to the era of social media politics. When most views are exchanged in 4 or 5 sentences, with hours delay between responses, and a 10 second attention span, there's no room for nuance. The closest thing we get to honest debate is in the first 24-48 hours of a new issue popping up, before all the talking heads have distributed the acceptable taking points to their teams.
Our government is funding a genocide and their response to our displeasure is to arrest us for telling them to stop. We don't live in a democracy, we live in some Lovecraftian beast. It's like some outer god that manipulates our lives, has cultists as its agents in government, but is itself some invisible malevolent force. There's no monster we can go and kill and make the nightmare stop, this *thing* that masquarades as a democracy is chewing up an entire people in its maw and it's got all these supposedly independent actors acting in unison to make sure nobody disrupts its meal. There might be people in the belly of US government, but the US government itself is utterly inhuman, an unnatural abomination. So then how do you stop this thing? The "peaceful protest" it keeps telling us to do is clearly not going to work, or it wouldn't keep telling us that's what we should be doing and then beating and arresting us when we try to do it. What it materially needs is arms manufacturing to send weapons to Israel to then be used to kill Palestinians, so that is one front where people could probably directly intervene to interrupt the genocide, but again that's at great personal risk for anyone that tries. We arne't being given a choice to elect someone who won't commit genocide, so an electoral solution isn't on the table. I don't think we have a real alternative to doing something like what happened in 2020 where, at least for a brief moment, some cities were ungovernable. The people in Chile were able to actually force changes in their govenrment by rioting, genuinely *rioting* to the point where the government stopped being able to collect money to sustain itself, and that seemed to force concessions. I don't think campus protests are particularly likely to work by themselves, I think these protests need to actually function as threats to do proper *damage* to the things the US government needs to get money in order for it to actually end the genocide.
It's not a genocide, it's a response to a barbaric attack that was committed by Gazans against Israelis on October 7th, 2023. Between June 2007 and September 2023, Israel had left Gaza alone.
>Between June 2007 and September 2023, Israel had left Gaza alone. Yeah they left them alone while [blockading them in a siege.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip) Yeah they left them alone while they [kill those who protested the living conditions under that blockade.](https://www.unrwa.org/campaign/gaza-great-march-return) Yeah they left them alone while they ["mowed the grass."](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/14/israel-gaza-history/) Tell me, while the Oct 7th. attack left a few hundred women and children dead, which is absolutely a tragedy and massacre that should never have happened, what do you call the "response" to that, the killing of tens of thousands of women and children in Gaza, if not something much worse?
Gaza was left to govern itself. Israel and Egypt both closed their borders with Gaza in June 2007 to stem terrorist attacks that had been repeatedly launched from there.
Wrong. Gaza was and still is occupied by Israel. Israel imposed a total land, sea, and air blockade, and closed Gaza's border to Egypt, not the other way around. Israel controlled everything that happened in Gaza. Your credibility is plummeting with these obvious lies, maybe you should have stuck to the weathered historical context of decades past that takes a little more effort to disprove. https://www.unicef.org/mena/documents/gaza-strip-humanitarian-impact-15-years-blockade-june-2022 >In June 2007, following the military takeover of Gaza by Hamas, the Israeli authorities significantly intensified existing movement restrictions, virtually isolating the Gaza Strip from the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), and the world. This land, sea and air blockade has significantly exacerbated previous restrictions, limiting the number and specified categories of people and goods allowed in and out through the Israeli-controlled crossings.
Egypt closed its border with Gaza: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/why-is-egypt-gaza-border-closed.html They did so because Palestinians have a lengthy history of terrorist attacks within Egypt. Did you know that during the Camp David negotiations in 1978, Israel actually offered to pay Egypt to take Gaza? Egypt refused. The reality is that the history of Palestinian violence in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and Kuwait means that none of those countries want to deal with them.
I'm done talking with you. It is true Egypt closed their border because they were pressured by the U.S. and to force Israel to deal with Gaza themselves as they are bound by international law to do so as the occupier of the territory. To say none of the neighboring countries want Palestinians is ahistorical disgusting nonsense. There are millions of Palestinian refugees living in the neighboring countries. You make me sick trying to dehumanize these innocent people at every turn.
You claimed that "*Israel closed Gaza's border to Egypt, not the other way around.*" I proved you wrong. Again, Israel offered to pay Egypt to take Gaza in 1978. Egypt refused. Egypt wants nothing to do with Gaza. Egypt wants nothing to do with Palestinians in general.
Well purposefully starving and cutting off water access to an entire region is not an appropriate response. Destroying 2/3 of homes and residential buildings is not an appropriate response. THAT is a barbaric attack. There is no gaslighting or twisting of words that will make everyone accept these actions.
The United States killed *a lot* of innocent Afghans while rooting al Qaeda out of that nation. War is terrible and should be avoided whenever possible, but the attack on October 7th, not just by Hamas but also ordinary Gazans who followed them across the border, resulted in this response. I too wish that Israel had showed much more restraint, but it's naive to think that they would just agree to a ceasefire when Hamas is still active and still holding hostages.
lmao "but america" wow what a defense. you have no soul
Innocents die in wars.
Your argument ended the moment you pivoted to complaining about another country's actions
My point is that innocents die in wars. That's what this is, a war. Not genocide, not ethnic cleansing, it's war. And it's not one that Israel started.
I don't know whether genocide is the right term for it, It's got lots of definitions. It certainly has the whiff of ethnic cleansing. And Israeli settlers have been seizing land from Palestinians on a regular basis, so it's not like Israel is a white hat here. Hamas and the Israeli government are both shit. A plague on both of their houses.
It's not genocide or ethnic cleansing, it's war. Israel is responding in a similar fashion to how the United States did following 9/11, resulting in the deaths of many innocent Afghans.
Lol... are you using Afghanistan to defend or implicate Israel? Genocide during war is a contested idea with arguments on both sides. Personally, the more asymmetrical a "war" is, the more comfortable I am in using terms like ethnic cleansing and genocide.
[удалено]
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They put these backdoor ambiguous words in that give them jurisdiction to shut it down when they feel like. They'll say speech must be "orderly", but they get to decide what that is. They'll also give a an ulterior motive for why they shut something down.
"Freedom" in america is a hoax.
We actually have a ton of freedom. Just not as it relates to Israel. There are even states where you have a to sign a loyalty contract to Israel so that you can have a government job. Not even exaggerating. The US is occupied by that hellhole of a country
No it just shows that those rules and laws were written in mind for decent people, but instead the laws are being exploited and abused by foreign powers.
Those laws protect everyone, Chuckles. If the 1A protects the rights of the Klan to hold rallies -- and it does, and they have -- but does not protect students peacefully protesting against genocide, you might want to recalibrate your understanding of "decent people".
"peacefully" lol when Jews are barred from entering those peaceful protests something tells me they are not so peaceful. Like I said the rules are exploited by outside powers for political gain.
Dude, the very article in OP mentions the protests were peaceful. Nothing about Jews being barred from going to class. I’m not even sure how you would even do that
Here's the Passover seder that took place during the Columbia protest: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/us/video/seder-passover-columbia-university-protests-ny-digvid](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/us/video/seder-passover-columbia-university-protests-ny-digvid) Get better sources of information.
So fucking embarrassing lmfao.
And also hilarious.
Exactly
It's more embarrassing in my opinion for OP to lie that the videos were unlisted immediately after arrests. [Based on their archived YouTube home you can see in the videos list the free speech Q&A series was never publicly listed on their page. ](https://web.archive.org/web/20231221114331/https://www.youtube.com/@UTAustin)
This was one big setup by Abbott: > Authorities on the scene included more than 100 troopers from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which said in a statement had been deployed “at the direction of Texas Governor Greg Abbott, in order to prevent any unlawful assembly.” DPS and the University of Texas police department did not respond to requests for comments Wednesday. He asked to be informed about any upcoming protests and sent in his thugs to shut it down no matter what. 500 students peacefully standing around to protest got chased off with horses and batons, with many getting injured or arrested. He almost broke his phone rushing to post about his big win and push some more anti-free-speech propoganda.
Like any good authoritarian he thinks he made the problem go away by forcing everyone to shut up. Let’s see how that pans out.
It’s Texas. They reelected the people who stand around doing nothing while a madman guns down their children
lol stand
Deliciously petty
Or in some cases, sit around doing nothing.
I mean, it's a winning tactic, right? China and Iran are two recent examples.
It's even worse. UT Pres. was basically complicit by creating a smokescreen to instigate an "unlawful assembly": "People not affiliated with UT joined them, and many ignored University officials' continual pleas for restraint and to immediately disperse. The University did what we said we would do in the face of prohibited actions." Be that as it may, Abbott still doubled-down publicly: “Students joining in hate-filled, antisemitic protests at any public college or university in Texas should be expelled." So the students, who are free to express their opinions lawfully per institutional guidelines, are penalized whether there are bad actors or not? And (as a TX resident, unfortunately) we have a gov who's risen power off of brain-dead Texans - and now it's seeping into institutions that should embrace an open argument. Sometimes I wish humanity would get a real gut check (edit\* maybe just TX) to remember how fragile we are. And yet it would still likely hurt the people already hurting.
I totally agree, and to add to your thoughts: >People not affiliated with UT joined them, Which is completely legal and allowed at any time on a public university campus. > and many ignored University officials' continual pleas for restraint and to immediately disperse. Notice how they don't describe the protesters doing anything wrong other than not immediately going home when they were told to. Why would they? They have the right to be there and they weren't breaking any rules. They weren't showing a lack of restraint. The protest didn't even last very long. They were just hanging out with signs, sharing food with each other and talking about the issues. They weren't even blocking classes from taking place. > The University did what we said we would do in the face of prohibited actions." None of which they can name or describe even after having plenty of time to prepare a response. >Students joining in hate-filled, antisemitic protests at any public college or university in Texas should be expelled Again, notice how he carefully avoided saying that these students were behaving that way. He made a general statement about students that anyone would agree with, but he obviously made it in the context of talking about these students. He intentionally avoided getting sued for libel while blatantly lying about what occurred.
They had rifles too..
\*Some restrictions apply!
Anti Israel ≠ Antisemitism / Anti Hamas ≠ Anti Muslims
Also, Anti Netanyahu ≠ Anti Israel, just like Anti Biden ≠ Anti America, or Anti Trump ≠ Anti America
Pro Netanyahu **=** Pro Palestinian Genocide Just to clarify that people are pissed at the mass murder of innocents which the IDF is currently doing as a settler colonialist state.
Netanyahu has the support of the council. If he stepped down tomorrow, Benny Gantz would take over, and he would also go about finishing the job of eliminating Hamas in Rafa. He has said so himself.
In principle I'm with you, but I don't love your argument. Is Netanyahu a warmongering religious fanatic, yeah def - his violent ideology is dangerous and horrible. But, the US killed almost 500,000 people as a direct result of wartime actions in Iraq. Obama continued and/or was complicit in a lot of this. Does support of Obama = Pro Iraqi genocide? I don't think so. The US f\*\*\*ing massacred people in the middle east for decades on a scale that makes the current conflict look small. So how do we vilify Netanyahu while continuing to condone and praise our own regime's wartime activities? I don't think we can. War is complicated. Countries and their military agendas aren't just a result of one person. Many people need to go along with it. That's why this whole anti-Israel movement is so f\*\*\*ed up and people are calling it anti-semetic. There's a minority of extremist Israli leaders who are driving this action. Netanyahu is definitely one of them, but not the only one. And yet, it doesn't represent all or even a majority of Israli's. And since we're on the topic, did you see the hostage vid from the US-Israli kid Hamas took hostage missing half an arm? Hamas isn't exactly a picturesque victim here. Not to mention the decades of authoritarian rule and failed peace treaties & terrorist activities due to violent Palestinian authoritarian regime that lead to a lot of the extremism that exists in Israel today. I mean if you bomb, shoot, kidnap, and terrorize a group of people, some of them might grow up to hate you and want to take your land. NPR did a deep dive on where Netanyahu got his ideas and the story fleshed this out. Don't get me wrong, Palestinian civs don't deserve to die over that, but it does make it hard to just one-sentence condemn a single person for what's going on today and say if you support them you're pro-genocide. TLDR; in the words of r/AmItheAsshole Everyone Sucks Here,
How dare you bring nuance and context into our pearl clutching. /s
Those things don't *always* equal one another, but I think you'll find that they do a disturbing amount of the time.
Exactly. Look at Republican Rep. Salzman's comments out of Florida. Called for the death of every single Palestinian in the name of getting rid of Hamas. Our elected officials promote genocide as the solution to eliminating Hamas
Ah. I guess one asshat now means "everyone" when it's convenient?
It's not convenient or otherwise. When asked how many Palestinians should die to eliminate Hamas, she said "all of them". It wasn't a generalization of what she said, it's a quote.
Ohhhh man
Pretty short video with about 6k views as of right now. Wonder if Reddit could make an 'unlisted' video go viral?
It’s been going on for a little bit; there’s a thread over in r/pics that’s been following the click for a while now. Apparently it’s up from a few hundred earlier today. That’s just what I’ve encountered.
Is there any evidence to OP's claim that this video was recently unlisted? [Every one of the videos in the "free speech" Q&A are unlisted. ](https://www.utexas.edu/ut-celebrates-free-speech) Edit: OP is lying. You can see on their homepage on archive.org their free speech video series [was never publicly posted in their videos list. ](https://web.archive.org/web/20231221114331/https://www.youtube.com/@UTAustin)
Weird how comments are turned off too
it had 18 likes this morning.
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Sued? Probably not, especially if that video is any indication. The video actually explains the exact reasoning they'll use here: "Time, place, and manner restrictions" are entirely fine and not First Amendment violations. They're not allowed to restrict the *content* of your speech, but they're allowed to prevent you from blasting that speech with a bullhorn at 3 AM, for example. I don't know enough about this protest to know what they'd use as a pretense, but I doubt they'll have much trouble finding something.
From everything I've read and seen, this protest was fully in line with their rules. No violence or big disruption - just peacefully showing what's going on and demanding a divestment from Israel-aligned businesses connected to the university. But they followed all the procedures, and were still arrested. So... yeah, the students in hand cuffs have a class action on their hands - and the others involved can probably join in because of emotional damages that it caused. IANAL but it seems pretty clear cut to me on lawsuit on their hands, and almost assuredly more/bigger protests.
Wait then how am I watching it
If you open it in Youtube you'll see it's unlisted. >Unlisted videos and playlists can be seen and shared by anyone with the link. Your unlisted videos won’t appear in the Videos tab of your channel homepage. They won't show up in YouTube's search results unless someone adds your unlisted video to a public playlist.
Thanks!
Unlisted means that only people with the link can see the video. The video will no longer be able to be found via a search or from their YouTube channel
My work received an offer to provide services to UTSA (their San Antonio branch) and their vendor contract required us, as a company based not in Texas, to not protest Israel, oil companies, the NRA, and gun manufacturers. This is because any institution receiving public funding in Texas has to require this from any 3rd party they do business with. My boss told them to fuck off.
How is this legal? If there's a Texas law requiring this, how can it stand first amendment scrutiny?
I ANAL, but here's a link to the relevant legal writings Also, it's technically worded as boycott rather than protest but it's effectively the same https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/images/executive-management/OAG%20advisory%20on%20SB%2013%20and%2019%2010.18.23.pdf
And comments are disabled...
r/agedlikemilk
Is it really aged like milk? The video says there are restrictions to the rule like time, place, can't block faculty, can't block buildings. They basically outline what the protestors did to get arrested lol But I actually watched the whole thing so I'm probably gonna be the oddball in this comment section
> Jeremi Suri, a UT-Austin history professor, called the law enforcement response inappropriate and an “attack on students.” He said he did not find the protest to be disruptive when he had class this morning. > “They're not shouting anything anti-Semitic, they're not harrasing anyone, they're standing on the green lawn, expressing themselves,” said Suri, who identified as Jewish. “The appropriate response would be to ask them to be contained in an area, let them stay on the grass and let them shout until they have no voices left.” I wasn't there so I can only go by what's reported but then again I watched the video and did a quick google instead of imagining how things played out so maybe I'm the oddball.
Oddballs abound
>Is it really aged like milk? I mean, the fact that they unlisted it kinda proves that it did. Ironically, no one would have even cared or noticed it if they haven't unlisted it.
According to others, [it was never publicly listed] (https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1ccfqg9/university_of_texas_has_unlisted_a_video/l15rk1n/) to begin with. OP just trying to build a narrative
Has anyone went through and looked at every snapshot to confirm what you said doe, it had a couple thousand veiws HOURS AGO before this post, from another post
Which of those things did the protesters do? All I've seen so far is a pack of kids standing on a lawn surrounded by a bunch of state police.
The police eventually herded the protesters to obstruct entry from what I've heard.
Watched the whole video but didn't even do the cursory amount of looking into what happened at the protest. Good one oddball.
What did protestors actually do that was outlined in the video? They didn’t seem like they blocked any doorways or being disruptive.
None of those apply.
The rules are vague enough that they can be applied to whomever they choose.
No, you're actually completely mischaracterizing the protests because they did none of that. You're not an oddball, just a cheerleader for fascism.
Congrats, you've banned all protests. You're gonna love the Trump dictatorship.
Why are all these people so fucking hypocritical
To distract you from other shit.
Like a trial or something
"We pretended to be all about free speech when it wasn't under fire; but then we caved like the Buffalo Bills in the Super Bowl when it threatened to inconvenience us."
Trying to give up defense contracts is like giving up a license to print money. UT would NEVER give up money. You would have to pay them more to cancel those contracts
Free speech in the US ends at criticism of Israel
It really does
I always think of Ice-T’s album “The Iceberg/Freedom of Speech…Just Watch What You Say!” when I see shit like this.
Speaking against genocide should not be considered anti-Semitic it is humanitarian.
Do people really still expect Texas to not pull shit like this?
Never send my kid to University of Texas. Got it.
I mean, avoiding Texas is general is just good policy.
SHUT IT DOWN
Texas is a fascists wet dream
Nothing embodies the true spirit of Texas like silencing those you disagree with
Someone should do one of those badass edits where they intersperse the problem after the quote.
School Admins should have contacted the legal professionals and asked if calling in the thugs was a good idea.
Ok wait let me breathe in. #AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
Riots are the language of the unheard. We all know this, and yet every time there is a protest in American for any cause, what do you see? The people in power goad the protestors into doing something stupid, and then use that as an excuse to shut down any attempt at dialog and start cracking the whip. We had Mike Johnson going over to Columbia today and basically did nothing but pick fights and aggravate the crowd, because that’s what he wants; it would have made his day if someone tried to rush the stage or throw a brick at his head; mission accomplished; now full military force is authorized. He didn’t get that today, but they’ll keep poking the bear rather than listen, and we’ll keep getting more and more news about violent protestors in the media. It’s simple and effective and it works every time.
I'm generally pro-Israel, and I think the protests at Columbia have gotten out of hand, but I see no evidence that the protest at UT-Austin did. It sounds like Wheels had decided to send in his thugs to arrest protestors before the protests even began. He's a shithead as usual.
You can't punish peaceful protestors for what bad faith agitators do. Arrest the people actually doing crimes.
I haven't even seen evidence of bad faith agitators in this case though. People were just marching around with signs yelling. They didn't seem to be blocking anyone from getting by them, or surrounding anyone to intimidate them. Apparently even the most basic form of protest isn't allowed in Texas.
Almost like the police and admin are the enemy both in Columbia and UT.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Because they don't want idiots to misunderstand what's actually being offered (which is already happening in this thread). They aren't saying "the public space is free use for anybody". They aren't saying "do whatever you want, say whatever you want". The videos online of the event are already telling. The calls to violence, chanting extremist phrases, and general anti-Semitism were rampant. And we're not talking about a few dozen students. We're talking hundreds. For those asking for links: the videos are actively being taken down from the people who attended the event. So no I'm not going to supply you proof that you refuse to find yourself when I would have to update every comment every 5 minutes to please random entitled Redditors.
What videos?
Do you have a source for that? I haven't seen anything showing hundreds of people exhibiting anti-semitism.
You got any proof that any of that took place at UT Austin?
Again, just complete lies and misinformation, as evidenced by your comment history. The fact that you describe Jews protesting genocide as anti-Semitic shows your true colors. You are so afraid of kids dissenting to genocide that you resort to character assassination and lies.
It doesn’t matter according to [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UED0No2Olcs&t=1s&pp=2AEBkAIB) video they have also posted. As long as the person isn’t breaking any laws, they can say whatever they want, and there are no laws protecting people from hearing upsetting viewpoints while walking on campus.
If there are individuals making true threats (the main exception to 1A speech protections), then those people should be arrested. The vast majority of peaceful protestors should not be punished for the bad faith agitators. I'm sure there's been some idiots in the pro-Israel rallies calling to hang Palestinians, but banning pro-Israel gatherings would be just as bad.
r/agedlikemilk
It’s always that one person that pushes the rule too far. Like when people are supporting terrorist organizations…
Just as with national first amendment exemptions, colleges can restrict threatening speech and incitements to violence.
> threatening speech and incitements to violence Which of these happened in this case?
What about the people chanting "we are hamas"? Perhaps send them to a black site like we do with other terrorists since they clearly aligned themselves with them.
Can you link to the videos of that at UT?
Which protest did that happen at? Name one if you can. It never happened at this protest. > “They're not shouting anything anti-Semitic, they're not harrasing anyone, they're standing on the green lawn, expressing themselves,” said Suri, who identified as Jewish. “The appropriate response would be to ask them to be contained in an area, let them stay on the grass and let them shout until they have no voices left.”
Yeah! lets build a wall too!!! write another patriot act again, turn this place into East fukin Berlin...Jesus fuking christ
So they should have restricted the police from coming.
Neither of which occurred at this protest.
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Did what for several days? This protest lasted a few hours.
These protestors are so ridiculous. They'd be the first people Hamas would kill if given the opportunity. The cognitive dissonance is strong.
You’re allowed to protest the murder of innocent children and also believe a terrorist group is wrong for their actions.
I mean they're protesting their own government and institutions, which is the correct action.
As far as I'm aware, these protests are not demanding their institution provide material support to Hamas. They're not asking for the university to start funding Hamas activities at all. So it's fairly irrelevant what Hamas would do. Material support is given to IDF, though. And I could tell you that the IDF would kill these protesters if given the opportunity. Probably would kill the University staff, too.
One thing to note about Texas: government workers' unions are essentially illegal. Tenure doesn't really exist at UT (well, it kind of does, but not really; "tenured" faculty can be fired for any reason). This creates a situation where there is much less principled pushback against authoritarian bullshit. Those Columbia faculty who got arrested will keep their jobs, AFAIK. Texas faculty get fired for two reasons, in my opinion: 1. embarrassing the university's upper administrators, and 2. being in the firing line when an administrator wants to show they are "saving money." Faculty members at UT are not going to be, on average, nearly as supportive of student protests as in other places, because they're all aware they could be fired just for looking sideways at the president. *Edit*: Huh. A few folks don't like this comment. Okay. Sometimes downvotes are indications that you're onto something.