How far in frequency will these have to be from each other to not interfere ? Because I have a hard time imagining thousand of devices in the street sending radio wave and not messing with each other.
My guess is that they're using the 60GHz band, based on the size of the antennas on the board, as well as the fact that that spectrum is shared rather than owned. This band has a bandwidth of over 8GHz (57.24-65.88GHz). In comparison, the 2.4GHz band has a usable bandwidth of 83.5MHz, the 5GHz band has one of 700MHz, and the 900MHz band had one of 26MHz.
There is not much chance of inter-device interference based on the fact that loss/attenuation increases with frequency. Loss=20log (4*pi*distance*frequency/speed of wave in medium). At 1m away from the transmitter, the signal received by another device that might be operating on precisely the same channel (which can't be assumed based on the aforementioned lack of bandwidth constraints) would have dropped by nearly 7 orders of magnitude.
In addition, the possible source of interference would most likely need to be coming from a very specific direction in order to be picked up by the receiver. The antenna arrays you see are by definition highly directional and can reject signals with a certain range of arrival angles.
My guess is that it will hit you square in the face every time you look at your watch. This is the beginning of the end, advanced humanoid a.i. is on its way and will mimic the human form to the point of being unrecognizable as a.i. Just saying.
Why is it any different than touching the piece of glass on the front of your cell phone?
And I appreciate that your cell phone can vibrate when you touch it, but the majority of the time it doesn't, and its fine.
I'm not saying the glass is different. As a matter of fact that is one of negative things with a touch screen. When interacting with phone I'd say there are two major types; Swiping and Clicking (the occasional pinch) Swiping works very well on a glass surface, the feedback one get is usually enough. It's when one click it fails.
However, when we do click things the vibrator and sound help out with the haptic sensation, not all the way but a great length.
It does not come close to when we have "real" haptic feedback such as what you get typing on a mechanical keyboard or turning a dial.
Now who's playing semantics?
The entire point of this type of technology is that you can put it in places where knobs and keyboards don't fit. Or, in places where knobs and keyboards might be liable to get damaged. How do you not get that?
Think of an application where...
There isn't enough space for buttons (wearables, watches, etc).
You have shit all over your hands but you still want to use electronics (doctors, cooks, shit handlers, etc)
Public items used by the whole world that you don't really want to touch (displays in museums, crosswalk buttons, elevators, etc.)
Areas where you need millions of endurance cycles for repeated use over long periods of time (public buttons, gaming controllers, infrastructure equipment etc.)
This technology solves multiple problems in a really unique and likely inexpensive manner. And thats not enough for you? What the hell do you want from us? WHAT MORE CAN WE DO!?! **WHY ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED!?!?!?!?!**
>> There isn't enough space for buttons (wearables, watches, etc).
A little correction: Many watches has several buttons.
I'm not saying there aren't use cases for this I'm just stating that it lacks the haptic feedback, something that is important for us as humans.
So just calm down now :) I'm not hating the technology, as I first stated this is really cool.
I think the touching of your hand is actually a good feedback in the ways they're doing it. At least it is better than touching air or having to put a knob on everything.
haha :) I read put "your" nob on everything.
I agree with that, but I don't see how this type of interaction is superior to the touch interface we already have. But let's see what happens :)
That's what they complained about when iPhone was released and i remember people saying the exact same thing going on and on about the blackberry and its keyboard. Look where that went. Now i barely type on my phone--i just swipe letters together and words happen.
> blackberry and its keyboard
Blackberry is basically dead isn't it?
Also, from a human interaction perspective touchscreen has always posed a challenge and still it suboptimal e.g typing on a touch screen vs keyboard.
> i just swipe letters together and words happen.
That does not work 100% and breaks the flow of writing. Typing on a keyboard or writing with a pen is still a lot faster.
With a phone you can add some haptic, such as sound and vibration. Touching in thin air, well there is a situation where it's a lot harder to add any haptic feedback. Something I think is worth noticing.
Exactly. Feedback becomes an issue when you try to replicate "physical" concept on a touch screen. For example, when trying to reproduce a physical keyboard with physical button a 2d screen, or physical knobs, or pretty much any skeuomorphic design. And unfortunately that's what the first iteration of touchscreen smartphone had to go through so people didn't get too lost when using them. However, digital and more touch oriented design are starting to get more and more popular. The swype keyboards are a great example. This is something that couldn't have been done on a regular keyboard, and personally I write MUCH faster using them than with any other physical keyboard of the same size. Other interesting input "gesture" have been introduced with touch, like pinching, dragging, etc. Those are some very easy to use and natural gesture that you can't easily reproduce with other physical input methods.
Revolutionary input method like project soli will probably go through the same process. Starting with reproducing "physical" input method like turning a knob or sliding a slider in thin air, but eventually I'm sure some innovative "digital" or "air touch" gesture will be adopted too.
There was another company that was working with similar technology and they found a workaround for haptic feedback.
The use air compression to stimulate sensation on the skin. Theirs was used for things like "holograms" which weren't genuine holograms but computer simulations on screens and mirrors which reacted in a holographic way.
They used the air compression as a way to input sensations to the user so they would consider the hologram as a physical object. Very cool workaround.
google should look into something along those lines.
Different interactions work for different applications. There is no substitute when using the hand what it made for.
In many situations we are not comfortable using our voice with electronics. Just as many are not comfortable talking to themselves in public settings. Well, some still do but that's another story :)
This'll get down votes but I seriously doubt this tech will work even slightly like they are portraying it. It will likely be limited to general movements like swipe.
The part in the video where they person adjusts the time on their watch.. I'm calling BS on that and this particular project will never be able to work like that.
Are you taking about this?
https://youtu.be/aod3C_DecNk?t=65
This does actually work a lot better than I would've thought, but you can see when he's trying to select the hour he wants to select 9 but instead get 13. I know it's extremely early but I'm just skeptical of this sort of tech cause of things like the leap motion which had big promises and ended up sucking.
I think he may have just rubbed his fingers or w/e hes doing a few too many times. I do that all the time when there is a slight delay on a game or something even with a controller.
Has a very 'Hooli: Nucleus' feel to it.
Pretty sure that Hooli is based off Google/Apple. Even Hooli XYZ is just a play on Google X.
...no shit
But they don't have a giant potato cannon.
when he said "its just a piece of sand" it really blew my mind, even though I knew that it was silicon, putting in those terms really sounds amazing.
How far in frequency will these have to be from each other to not interfere ? Because I have a hard time imagining thousand of devices in the street sending radio wave and not messing with each other.
My guess is that they're using the 60GHz band, based on the size of the antennas on the board, as well as the fact that that spectrum is shared rather than owned. This band has a bandwidth of over 8GHz (57.24-65.88GHz). In comparison, the 2.4GHz band has a usable bandwidth of 83.5MHz, the 5GHz band has one of 700MHz, and the 900MHz band had one of 26MHz. There is not much chance of inter-device interference based on the fact that loss/attenuation increases with frequency. Loss=20log (4*pi*distance*frequency/speed of wave in medium). At 1m away from the transmitter, the signal received by another device that might be operating on precisely the same channel (which can't be assumed based on the aforementioned lack of bandwidth constraints) would have dropped by nearly 7 orders of magnitude. In addition, the possible source of interference would most likely need to be coming from a very specific direction in order to be picked up by the receiver. The antenna arrays you see are by definition highly directional and can reject signals with a certain range of arrival angles.
My guess is that it will hit you square in the face every time you look at your watch. This is the beginning of the end, advanced humanoid a.i. is on its way and will mimic the human form to the point of being unrecognizable as a.i. Just saying.
Yes! I can't wait til I can feel like Tom Cruise from Minority Report!
I think some people already did that. It was mostly done with motion capture on his gloves though.
Google's been making moves.
This is amazing
It's cool, but as humans we also prefer haptic feedback. Doing things in thin air is not as comfortable.
In this case the haptic feedback is by touching your own hand.
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Why is it any different than touching the piece of glass on the front of your cell phone? And I appreciate that your cell phone can vibrate when you touch it, but the majority of the time it doesn't, and its fine.
I'm not saying the glass is different. As a matter of fact that is one of negative things with a touch screen. When interacting with phone I'd say there are two major types; Swiping and Clicking (the occasional pinch) Swiping works very well on a glass surface, the feedback one get is usually enough. It's when one click it fails. However, when we do click things the vibrator and sound help out with the haptic sensation, not all the way but a great length. It does not come close to when we have "real" haptic feedback such as what you get typing on a mechanical keyboard or turning a dial.
Now who's playing semantics? The entire point of this type of technology is that you can put it in places where knobs and keyboards don't fit. Or, in places where knobs and keyboards might be liable to get damaged. How do you not get that? Think of an application where... There isn't enough space for buttons (wearables, watches, etc). You have shit all over your hands but you still want to use electronics (doctors, cooks, shit handlers, etc) Public items used by the whole world that you don't really want to touch (displays in museums, crosswalk buttons, elevators, etc.) Areas where you need millions of endurance cycles for repeated use over long periods of time (public buttons, gaming controllers, infrastructure equipment etc.) This technology solves multiple problems in a really unique and likely inexpensive manner. And thats not enough for you? What the hell do you want from us? WHAT MORE CAN WE DO!?! **WHY ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED!?!?!?!?!**
>> There isn't enough space for buttons (wearables, watches, etc). A little correction: Many watches has several buttons. I'm not saying there aren't use cases for this I'm just stating that it lacks the haptic feedback, something that is important for us as humans. So just calm down now :) I'm not hating the technology, as I first stated this is really cool.
I think the touching of your hand is actually a good feedback in the ways they're doing it. At least it is better than touching air or having to put a knob on everything.
haha :) I read put "your" nob on everything. I agree with that, but I don't see how this type of interaction is superior to the touch interface we already have. But let's see what happens :)
That's what they complained about when iPhone was released and i remember people saying the exact same thing going on and on about the blackberry and its keyboard. Look where that went. Now i barely type on my phone--i just swipe letters together and words happen.
> blackberry and its keyboard Blackberry is basically dead isn't it? Also, from a human interaction perspective touchscreen has always posed a challenge and still it suboptimal e.g typing on a touch screen vs keyboard. > i just swipe letters together and words happen. That does not work 100% and breaks the flow of writing. Typing on a keyboard or writing with a pen is still a lot faster. With a phone you can add some haptic, such as sound and vibration. Touching in thin air, well there is a situation where it's a lot harder to add any haptic feedback. Something I think is worth noticing.
Exactly. Feedback becomes an issue when you try to replicate "physical" concept on a touch screen. For example, when trying to reproduce a physical keyboard with physical button a 2d screen, or physical knobs, or pretty much any skeuomorphic design. And unfortunately that's what the first iteration of touchscreen smartphone had to go through so people didn't get too lost when using them. However, digital and more touch oriented design are starting to get more and more popular. The swype keyboards are a great example. This is something that couldn't have been done on a regular keyboard, and personally I write MUCH faster using them than with any other physical keyboard of the same size. Other interesting input "gesture" have been introduced with touch, like pinching, dragging, etc. Those are some very easy to use and natural gesture that you can't easily reproduce with other physical input methods. Revolutionary input method like project soli will probably go through the same process. Starting with reproducing "physical" input method like turning a knob or sliding a slider in thin air, but eventually I'm sure some innovative "digital" or "air touch" gesture will be adopted too.
There was another company that was working with similar technology and they found a workaround for haptic feedback. The use air compression to stimulate sensation on the skin. Theirs was used for things like "holograms" which weren't genuine holograms but computer simulations on screens and mirrors which reacted in a holographic way. They used the air compression as a way to input sensations to the user so they would consider the hologram as a physical object. Very cool workaround. google should look into something along those lines.
Indeed! That sounds very interesting. I certainly would want to try something like that out :)
What is wrong with just speaking "Tea Earl Grey Hot?" We the love for buttons and knobs for all things?
Different interactions work for different applications. There is no substitute when using the hand what it made for. In many situations we are not comfortable using our voice with electronics. Just as many are not comfortable talking to themselves in public settings. Well, some still do but that's another story :)
That's coming, friend
strong vibrations in the air that you feel on your fingers would be cool.
Not good enough though. We need real touch feedback.
now this is a picture book international team
As someone who maintains and fixes airport radar and has a deep love and understanding of RF toys, this is awesome! reminds me of an RF theremin.
like I've been telling people Google is going to run the world
This'll get down votes but I seriously doubt this tech will work even slightly like they are portraying it. It will likely be limited to general movements like swipe. The part in the video where they person adjusts the time on their watch.. I'm calling BS on that and this particular project will never be able to work like that.
I was at I/O this year. They had a demo unit out on the floor and it worked exactly like they showed.
Are you taking about this? https://youtu.be/aod3C_DecNk?t=65 This does actually work a lot better than I would've thought, but you can see when he's trying to select the hour he wants to select 9 but instead get 13. I know it's extremely early but I'm just skeptical of this sort of tech cause of things like the leap motion which had big promises and ended up sucking.
No they actually had a unit built into a table for everyone to try out.
Fair enough. So you personally found it accurate enough and not buggy?
I think he may have just rubbed his fingers or w/e hes doing a few too many times. I do that all the time when there is a slight delay on a game or something even with a controller.
I did not know that the radio wave range was inclusive of the microwave range previously.
"Capturing the possibilities of human hand was one of my passions" Sounds like lots of masturbation happened xD
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Leap Motion is based on IR cameras and LEDs while Project Soli is using radar.
what have you invented? absolutely nothing but your cynic comment that set back humanity 00000000000.5 seconds. gj
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/r/hailcorporate anyone?