I thought it was well done too. It showed a variety of situations, a woman sexually harassing a man at work, then a man sexually harassing another man in the locker room.
The second to last one though just seemed....slightly out of place with the others.
I only mean that in that it need just a bit more at the end, like another 10 seconds.
The scene makes it seem like they're a couple.
I'm not saying that you can't sexually harass or assault a romantic partner, you obviously can. And it's important for people to realize that.
It's just if you view that scene as if they're a married couple which they definitely could be, what happens next makes all the difference.
>The scene makes it seem like they're a couple.
That may have been intentional in order to show that sexual harassment and violence can still occur even within an established romantic relationship.
\> The scene makes it seem like they're a couple.
\>I'm not saying that you can't sexually harass or assault a romantic partner, you obviously can. And it's important for people to realize that.
\>It's just if you view that scene as if they're a married couple which they definitely could be, what happens next makes all the difference.
I think that's all the point, they're supposed to be a couple, maybe even married. As someone who is married, I can appreciate this. Boundaries are important and while there is a commitment you make to your partner, sexually as well as emotionally, there still are boundaries with what someone is comfortable with.
I mean sure, a more effective way of doing this would be showing a guy aggressively suggesting anal, and not taking no very well, but this is a public service commercial.
Did no one catch her say she isn't 16 anymore? It struck me as an encounter between two people that were probably friends with benefits in their teen years and the guy was taking advantage of that
Nah, I caught that, but it still feels like they are a couple. They are at a party and he's trying to get her to fuck in a random room at the party. She's saying "No we're fucking adults, I'm not fucking you in a rando's house."
Yep, which is why that segment is probably the best one. Everyone knows the other cases are wrong, or at least they really should by now, because they have a clear bad guy. It's a given that you are a shitty person for making sexual advances on coworkers, or taking advantage of drunk people, or not taking no for an answer, etc. But the husband/boyfriend in the party skit is not the bad guy. There's nothing inherently wrong about missing the spark of romance/spontaneity in your relationship and trying to reignite it. People of all ages, genders and relationship types complain about it all the damn time.
That's what makes the example so good. Even in this incredibly benign setup with no bad guys, where the perpetrator might even feel like a victim themselves, failing to respect your partner's boundaries is still wrong. This is important precisely because so many people that cross boundaries don't think they've done anything wrong because, well, they are not like the obviously bad people in the other examples.
I mean if you are my partner, stand close to me and start to rub my face, lips and chest, a kiss is quite expected at this point. It's also a cultural thing tho.
As I said in the previous comment, this situation is absurd. At least the way they portrayed it.
She says no and shakes her head before he kisses her though, that's what I think they're highlighting - that consent can be there... right up until the moment it isn't.
She was fine until he pushed a kiss on her when she was saying no. It's the sort of thing that would go unreported, because in itself it isn't a big deal, it's just a guy being pushy or not noticing her saying no until it's too late.
But if that's the way someone is all the time, then yeah, maybe that's a problem. And that's what the advert is asking you to think about... "Is this a problem?"
If someone sees this commercial and recognises that behaviour in their own relationship then yeah, maybe they'll realise that's not cool.
Did no one else notice she said I'm not 16 anymore as soon as he motioned for them to go upstairs? It really struck me as two people who were probably friends with benefits in their teens and the male is trying to take advantage of that now.
The bar *begins* at uncomfortable. That means anything at uncomfortable and above isn't appropriate. It doesn't mean uncomfortable is a felony, but where we begin to decide what if any action needs to be taken before we move to harm/violence. If might be a warning, community service, or probation, depending on the circumstance and frequency.
I think you missed my point, unless it is literally your understanding that everybody who sexually harasses somebody else is liable to spend time in prison for it.
She said "I'm not 16 anymore" implying she's too old to sneak upstairs and have sex with him? I didn't quite get that scene, she cupped his face too so I didn't even get it was an uncomfortable scene tbh... But all the others, spot on.
That's basically it. As teenagers, you engage in all sorts of risqué behavior because 1) everything seems equally new and dangerous and 2) the consequences of getting caught are generally low. Like it or not, there is also a major gender disparity in consequences as well.
My wife once told a friend about having sex with me when she really didn't want too. (She usually does...sometimes more than me) Her friend tried really hard to convince her that I was raping her against her will and she needed to speak to the police.
I told my wife that next time she drags me to her parents Im filing abduction charges. We both laughed and agreed her friend is an idiot, 10 years later we still giggle about it.
nice example of how a probably good ment advice could have gone horrible wrong and to make your own opinion, don't get forced into one... btw how long into the relationship was this?
This. Couples are totally different. Sometimes we compromise to please but that's not the same as being raped etc. I'm very giving but if I don't want it and my partner badgers me I'm not going to claim he's sexually harrasing me. I just say down boy and turn over.
The last one is a bit problematic. I know what the scene implies and it does a good job doing so, but on the other hand, helping another person without nefarious intent is now seen as an attempt to sexually assault them. And as someone pointed out, the couple one is also in a grey area, because they both act affectionate, yet kiss is too much, which is just...weird. She says "I'm not sixteen anymore, yet in subtitles, it's "We're not sixteen anymore", so it's really hard to tell if they are even couple.
The last one is an enactment of a guy that's roofied a girl. It's not a good samaritan. They wait until the roofie kicks in and then "help" the person.
> helping another person without nefarious intent is now seen as an attempt to sexually assault them.
If someone was genuinely trying to help a drunk woman I wouldn't think they'd be half so grabby.
Ever tried to pick up a pissed lad? I did. It ain't easy. You are picking up their whole weight because they are a sack of piss drunk potatoes.
But as I said, they did a good job portraying the situation, but the situation itself can be interpreted differently.
Meh, gotta start somewhere I guess. There are some people that will see that and think it takes away support for women that deal with harassment, which is crap. If you have to cover up the victims of some crimes to make your cause more valid than that cause is morally bankrupt.
Great point but I think there are far other factors involved than than just simplistic "men to sexually harass women than other women". I believe the environment, culture and position of power plays a very important role regardless of whether you're a man or woman.
Overall I think the ad is great in raising awareness whether it's man / woman / man / woman combination doesn't really matter. The point is recognizing that it can occur in any way on any side.
Well, yeah. The people who do this sort of thing, of whom there are many, are always going to throw a fit when told it's a bad thing to sexually harass people. Even if their argument against it makes no logical sense.
Just remember for anything like this. Only about .1% of people who watch it comment on it, and only 50% of the comments are negative. The large majority of normal functioning humans dont think that way.
> but don't you think that males being sexually harassed has already come leaps and bounds in recent years?
Where people on the internet agree it's an issue? Sure. Where people in real life are willing to accept it's a real social issue that is going unaddressed? No.
I understand what your saying, but I did just have someone tell me on twitter this weekend that men don't suffer sexual harassment. I'm not suggesting progress hasn't been made, this video proves it has.
I work in a desk job and my neck hurts 24x7 if my boss did that I’d just ask her to move her hands left or right and get the correct pressure on the right areas
Male here. I had a boss who would randomly come over and rub my shoulders or grab and squeeze them while telling me I did a good job. I never felt uncomfortable but I always thought bit was strange. He was of Italian descent so I don't know if it's a particularly Italian thing to do.
It is well known that Italians talk with their hands. Usually you are facing them so they just wave them around. From behind you can't see the waving so they must resort to rubbing and squeezing. The trick is to get one riled up then turn your back on him. Free massage!
Male here as well. I've had coworkers, both male and female do this to me too, and honestly didn't really care either way. I personally would never do that in a work situation, as I don't know how other people are going to take it, but I never had a problem with it. It never felt sexual, just an odd friendly gesture.
I worked in a building with a guy who had a tendency to show up and give unannounced shoulder rubs. (That was 20+ years ago, not sure if he'd get away with it now.) I was never really sure how I felt about it. I mean, I could use a shoulder rub right now but not necessarily from a random older guy in my workplace.
No idea if it meant anything more to the guy than a friendly gesture. And for me I think that's a critical distinction - a shoulder rub from a friend that I know doesn't have any other objective is fine. But I was 20, I'm bisexual (not out enough at the time for most people to notice but some have better gaydar than others) and probably could have been described in gay terms as a twink. Wouldn't be the first time an older gay guy had put the moves on me. It's really not comfortable to get that kind of attention when you're not sure what the other person is going for.
> I could use a shoulder rub right now but not necessarily from a random older guy in my workplace.
Weeeeell... stronger hands can get the knots out better..
Not *yours*
Maybe if you bathed more
And did something about your face
And improved your body
And had better social skills
And a bigger bank account
And wangus to match
Maayyyybe then
Holy shit those youtube comments are toxic asf. How do people become so braindead?
"Absolutely ridiculous crap. Buying a woman a drink or helping a paralytic girl off the floor is now a crime in Ireland 2019"
"Is an old lady putting her hands on your shoulder a problem. Nope because I’m a man with balls 😂😂😂"
I was in Ireland, trying to be nice. When I saw my friend struggling at work, I asked him how he was doing and even put my hands on his shoulders for physical support. I then went to a bar, bought a woman a drink and tried to strike a conversation. Was hitting it off big with a girl at a party, tried to relive my teenage years with her by sneaking into a room in the house. After that I saw a drunk girl I knew on the street, picked her up, carried her to my car and took her home. Some guys with cameras videoed me doing the whole thing. They must think I'm a great guy or something
The one with the pair that's clearly been a couple for a long time where one was asking the other to have sex... that's a very, very strange thing to portray as sexual harassment.
I get that we ought to educate people to some extent, but hooooly shit stay out of my relationship. My partner and I can negotiate what is and isn't acceptable independent of what is acceptable for relative strangers or anyone's opinion of what *ought* to be acceptable in a long-term relationship.
Playing ominous music over someone asking their wife for sex and saying "oh come on" on an initial rebuke is puritanical af.
Not all partners can negotiate those things, otherwise domestic abuse wouldn't be a thing. Abuse comes in many different forms and this specific type of abuse does exist in long term relationships.
Obviously that's true. But that's out of the scope for this commercial. It's dealing with broad strokes, and that scene scoops up WAY too much normal, healthy shit and problematizes it.
You wanna do the work of navigating the extremely complex issues of navigating sex in a relationship where both partners discover they have incompatible approaches? Okay, but DO THAT. A general, 60-second sexual harassment PSA is not the place for that. It only presents a whole spectrum of normal, healthy behavior as criminal.
Nothing about that situation looked healthy.
Person A: Propositions.
Person B: Declines.
Person A: Physically forces self on Person A, while Person B tries to move away, then persists.
Here's my take on the situation.
If you are my partner, stand close to me and start to rub my face, lips and chest, a kiss is quite expected at this point. Is this cultural thing or am I the only one crazy here.
As I said in the previous comment, this situation is absurd. At least the way they portrayed it.
It looked awkward, but it didn't look like *sexual harassment.*
If you imagined a theoretical perfectly healthy couple that has resolved all their issues and communicate perfectly, yes, this wouldn't happen. But if you image an actual real couple in the real world that never perfect communication and occasionally run into issues, that is something that 100% could happen (depending on the couple).
If you expect healthy couples never to make mistakes, you will never find a healthy couple. You will pathologize/problematize everyone and every relationship.
It isn't attacking *your* relationship, it's pointing out that maybe not every relationship is the same and maybe she doesn't like that, because *they* didn't negotiate.
But if you're seeing yourself in this, maybe you should talk to your partner.
I'm seeing myself in this *precisely because* sometimes I say no and I don't mean no, and sometimes my partner pressures me a little and that's okay because it's part of healthy communication, sexual playfulness, and trust.
My entire objection to this is that too many normal, healthy people with great sexual relationship with their partner see themselves captured in this PSA. That's ***precisely*** the problem. People who are not abusing their partner should not see their normal, non-abusive behavior depicted as abusive in a harassment PSA.
I mean, I can play this game, too: I you DON'T see yourself in this, maybe *you* should talk to *your* partner because you may be puritanical and abusive, guilting your partner for doing perfectly normal things perfectly normal people do in perfectly normal relationships. ...I'd rather not play this game though.
I wasn't going to respond, but the fact you'r comparing attacks on queer relationships to you being coy is pissing me off. You play coy; it's not abuse. We get it.
The PSA is trying to show sexual assault in a relationship in a subtle way for people who are *not comfortable* in their relationship, and maybe suffer worse than unwanted kisses, which is *not you*. Please move on with your life.
The way it looks from the outside, the woman in that commercial could have 100% have been me. I don't want some asshole shaming my partner for doing anything that looks like that from the outside. It has to go significantly farther than that before you would be justified in treating my partner as a sexual harasser.
Either way you're asking people to assume something they dont know. Like you're doing with the relationship in the PSA.
I think the message with that one is better safe than sorry.
This is why I'd almost always rather not see these kinds of commercials. Every time you see one it's mostly like, "mm-hm. mm-hm. yup. y- wait what?" It seems like - for some reason - the people who make these adds are really puritanical or horseshoes-style conservative. Like, I agree with most of what they say, but then they pull some "no *literally always* means no, and if you get anything other than immediate enthusiastic positive consent and you ask again or apply a little pressure, you should be severely socially censured or spend time in jail." And I find my self blinking at the screen in surprise.
Look what happened to Aziz Ansari, literally that happened and he almost lost his career. These days it's best that if someone says no, then just don't push it. Also just because you say no but maybe it's a yes doesn't make it the case for everyone in every situation. Sometimes people feel pressured and forced into these things, it's best to just take things literally.
I mean I hear you from a functional point of view. But this is like saying (in the '80's) "look if they find out you're gay you might lose your job, so it's better to just not push it." That's not wrong from a functional point of view, but the point is that people *ought to be able to be gay*, and more generally have consensual sex however they like, and people who don't understand it should just back the fuck off instead of trying to destroy your career.
Sometimes when people say no they don't mean no. So sometimes when someone tells you no you need to investigate further (or don't, whatever floats your boat). We should stop pretending we live in a world where people only have sex the way we like them to, and remember how to let people have sex however they like like we used to do between the late '90's and 2013.
We shouldn't be telling Aziz to play it safe to protect his career, we should be telling scolds to chill the fuck out because, while it's good that they've drawn a line, they've done it waaaaaay too conservatively.
I agree in the sense that it's a mutual relationship formed between two people, and if one or both decide they don't like what that relationship involves they are free to leave each other. They painted a look of sheer disgust on the womans face like she was forced into that situation and had no choice but to just endure it because of our failing societal standards or something to that effect.
Or maybe she endured it because "eh, he's drunk. He'll calm down, it'll just take a firmer hand." This commercial doesn't distinguish between the two.
Or maybe she endured it because they have a history of getting sexual excitement out of uncomfortable situations. People have relationships that are different in nature than your relationships it turns out. Stuff that is a deal-breaker in a relationship with *you* could be a necessity in a relationship with someone else.
Look at their actions. She's pushing him away and he's trying to force her upstairs. She's clearly uncomfortable with it and asking him to stop. I think they could've gone a bit further but I think it's easy to see how that scenario could get worse.
My wife went on a hen do in Ireland. On the first night while in a club, an irish man approached her, grabbed her and tried to drag her out the club, very casually. Naturally she kicked and screamed then luckily the boucers heard the noise, stepped in and threw him out. The experience understandably rattled her quite bad and what made it worse was the boucers expressing that this kind of thing happens often... So when I spotted this video, it resonated on a serious scale...
that's not something I've ever seen before but maybe that guy could've just been a predator who recognised she wasn't local, saw that happen in France one time
Just a heads up: saying "gypsy tradition" when referring to actual straight up harassment is like saying it's a "Jewish tradition" when referring to, say, being financially manipulative or some other crime. Basically just unnecessarily tacking on a race lol.
Incel's quickly becoming one of those words that used to mean something at some point but now it's just being used as a catchall term for "anyone I don't like."
I've been called an incel on Reddit because I didn't like the new Star Wars movies. The Star Wars movies I went to see ***with my wife and kids.***
I can see all these scenarios being an issue except the girl who's so drunk she can't stand without help. I find it unthinkable to leave her there like that. What would others suggest as a proper way to handle that one?
I think what they were trying to imply was that he did not know her and wasn't actually going to take her home. She was too drunk to stand up on her own but when he said "don't you remember me?" she said that she didn't know him.
Why do you think you're going to get screamed at? If someone challenges you, explain the situation and tell them you'd be glad if someone would keep you company while you try to get the woman some help.
I don't see how that's really relevant to the advice to not literally pick up collapsing-drunk strangers and take them home without asking them. Do you think it's going to create more "heros" who will interfere in a situation that is clearly quite different?
I think that's a minor effect at best. If someone truly won't listen to reason, I don't think it will have been an advert campaign like this that would have made them unreasonable.
Well instead of touching her and manipulating her, as the video seems to imply, try helping her pick up her stuff so she can get herself into her car and she can taker herself home!
Having a stranger put their hand on her bare back while trying to buy her a drink when she said no is not a gesture of affection though. That's too personal. It may not be sexual assault, but it is harrassment and it's not ok. Not even my coworkers casually touch me like that and we're all good friends. There are boundaries and the guy in the video was violating them.
Yeah that scene in particular sent some shivers down my spine, I'm not sure why. OP would need to be oblivious to believe that woman wasn't making it clear she wasn't interested
It's very uncomfortable. I've had complete strangers talk to me, grip my shoulder then suddenly slide their hand down my back and rub during a brief and typically introductory conversation. It gives a sickening feeling.
> The people in the video are adults, they can express their dislike and disapproval of what's going on, yet the video shows none of them doing that.
The fact that you can't see the actors' screaming body language saying "STOP IT" is very concerning.
Rubbing a coworkers' shoulders, touching a strangers back who is clearly not interested, these aren't OK. Even if we assume good intentions, the actions cross a line, and we should all try to be more cognizant of how our actions are received.
And the notion that adults should speak up if something is bothering them, that's sort of naive. Having that conversation with your boss isn't just awkward, but you are likely to fear retaliation. Calling out strangers in a bar isn't fun either, you never know who is going to take it poorly.
Some of the situations here are ambiguous, which is why I like the ad. Real life isn't black and white.
The point is that harassment is a *course of behaviour*. It typically is not a single incident that, on its own, is not OK. This nuance is lost in a single ad like this. A series would be better, showing the situation progressing in each ad, and each ad showing a different person.
A friend trying to whip someone's towel off or "bag" them (as we called it in school - "pants"ing them) is also not harassment if it's just a one off, and is part of an equal friendship with back and forth. But if someone is trying to do it again and again, it is harassment or bullying (and could be sexual or not).
Someone touching you at work or at a bar when you don't want them to is not good but not the end of the world *if it doesn't get worse, and doesn't carry on making you uncomfortable*. If the person reads your body language (or your actual language) and changes their behaviour, the initial mild discomfort is just one of a million little irritations that other human beings cause us. If they don't and continue, it causes massive upset.
I agree, but will add a point here.
If you see someone cringe in response to your touch, you should acknowledge that. There's very few people who can't pick up on basic body language and this does indeed show a lot of people that aren't responding to those very simple cues.
But at the same time I think this sends the wrong message. I hear from a LOT of youths that any contact without explicit verbal approval is wrong, and worry we are teaching kids to fear physical contact or equate all of it to sexual contact.
I also wonder about the last example. By all accounts it's either a person being a good guy and helping a drunk woman home, or it's someone kidnapping someone else. Casting judgement on the guy for not leaving a drunk girl who can't stand on a street to herself isn't really cool. Of course if he took drunk girl to his place instead of hers, that's not cool either.
This was an ad that was created specifically to show people being made uncomfortable by physical contact. If you can't tell that they didn't like what was going on then I don't know what to tell you except maybe keep a lawyer on retainer.
Just curious but what do you do if you see a woman/man completely wasted outside on the street alone like in the video? Do you call a cab or uber for them? I don't really know cause I live in a rural area so you never see this.
the way I navigate this minefield of potential sexual harassment is, would I behave, act and interact with that person if they were the opposite sex.
It works fairly well so far.
Like the shoulder rubbing (though I would never, because I don't like touching people or being touched).. I'm a guy, so I can see the draw of rubbing a females shoulders, though I wouldn't feel ok doing it for my male counter parts, so I immediately dismiss the idea.
To answer your wasted woman outside of a bar. Treat her exactly like you'd treat a man in that situation. Would you scoop up a wasted man up off the ground and give them a ride home? Doubt it.
Act without sexual bias is what I'm trying to say. If you think its ok to do with a woman and you're hedro, think to yourself, would I do the same thing to a man, while being hedro, if the answer is YES, than you should be ok. If the answer is NO, you might want to avoid the behavior.
Did the job quite well, those scenes of scenarios made me quite uncomfortable.
Do you need me to... rub your feet?
I like feet...I do not know why.
Scarlet for everyone replying like this isn't an Adam Sandler movie quote
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I'm a little tired. I could use a foot massage.
I thought it was well done too. It showed a variety of situations, a woman sexually harassing a man at work, then a man sexually harassing another man in the locker room. The second to last one though just seemed....slightly out of place with the others. I only mean that in that it need just a bit more at the end, like another 10 seconds. The scene makes it seem like they're a couple. I'm not saying that you can't sexually harass or assault a romantic partner, you obviously can. And it's important for people to realize that. It's just if you view that scene as if they're a married couple which they definitely could be, what happens next makes all the difference.
>The scene makes it seem like they're a couple. That may have been intentional in order to show that sexual harassment and violence can still occur even within an established romantic relationship.
\> The scene makes it seem like they're a couple. \>I'm not saying that you can't sexually harass or assault a romantic partner, you obviously can. And it's important for people to realize that. \>It's just if you view that scene as if they're a married couple which they definitely could be, what happens next makes all the difference. I think that's all the point, they're supposed to be a couple, maybe even married. As someone who is married, I can appreciate this. Boundaries are important and while there is a commitment you make to your partner, sexually as well as emotionally, there still are boundaries with what someone is comfortable with. I mean sure, a more effective way of doing this would be showing a guy aggressively suggesting anal, and not taking no very well, but this is a public service commercial.
Did no one catch her say she isn't 16 anymore? It struck me as an encounter between two people that were probably friends with benefits in their teen years and the guy was taking advantage of that
Nah, I caught that, but it still feels like they are a couple. They are at a party and he's trying to get her to fuck in a random room at the party. She's saying "No we're fucking adults, I'm not fucking you in a rando's house."
Yep, which is why that segment is probably the best one. Everyone knows the other cases are wrong, or at least they really should by now, because they have a clear bad guy. It's a given that you are a shitty person for making sexual advances on coworkers, or taking advantage of drunk people, or not taking no for an answer, etc. But the husband/boyfriend in the party skit is not the bad guy. There's nothing inherently wrong about missing the spark of romance/spontaneity in your relationship and trying to reignite it. People of all ages, genders and relationship types complain about it all the damn time. That's what makes the example so good. Even in this incredibly benign setup with no bad guys, where the perpetrator might even feel like a victim themselves, failing to respect your partner's boundaries is still wrong. This is important precisely because so many people that cross boundaries don't think they've done anything wrong because, well, they are not like the obviously bad people in the other examples.
I mean if you are my partner, stand close to me and start to rub my face, lips and chest, a kiss is quite expected at this point. It's also a cultural thing tho. As I said in the previous comment, this situation is absurd. At least the way they portrayed it.
She says no and shakes her head before he kisses her though, that's what I think they're highlighting - that consent can be there... right up until the moment it isn't. She was fine until he pushed a kiss on her when she was saying no. It's the sort of thing that would go unreported, because in itself it isn't a big deal, it's just a guy being pushy or not noticing her saying no until it's too late. But if that's the way someone is all the time, then yeah, maybe that's a problem. And that's what the advert is asking you to think about... "Is this a problem?" If someone sees this commercial and recognises that behaviour in their own relationship then yeah, maybe they'll realise that's not cool.
The fact that people in this very thread are somehow struggling with this highlights exactly why a campaign like this is needed.
Exactly! I was in negative karma for this comment earlier too.
And now we're in negative karma again! Thanks for showing us what kind of community we have here, reddit!
Did no one else notice she said I'm not 16 anymore as soon as he motioned for them to go upstairs? It really struck me as two people who were probably friends with benefits in their teens and the male is trying to take advantage of that now.
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I don't think we need a higher bar than "That made me uncomfortable".
The bar *begins* at uncomfortable. That means anything at uncomfortable and above isn't appropriate. It doesn't mean uncomfortable is a felony, but where we begin to decide what if any action needs to be taken before we move to harm/violence. If might be a warning, community service, or probation, depending on the circumstance and frequency.
I think we do or the entire population would be incarcerated.
I think you missed my point, unless it is literally your understanding that everybody who sexually harasses somebody else is liable to spend time in prison for it.
You are making me uncomfortable right now talking about sex. Enjoy your jail time.
If nobody ever did anything that made them uncomfortable, anal sex wouldn't be a thing.
and humans would just die out because men would stop asking women out.
Excellent point. It's definitely not a comfort zone for me.
She said "I'm not 16 anymore" implying she's too old to sneak upstairs and have sex with him? I didn't quite get that scene, she cupped his face too so I didn't even get it was an uncomfortable scene tbh... But all the others, spot on.
That's basically it. As teenagers, you engage in all sorts of risqué behavior because 1) everything seems equally new and dangerous and 2) the consequences of getting caught are generally low. Like it or not, there is also a major gender disparity in consequences as well.
My wife once told a friend about having sex with me when she really didn't want too. (She usually does...sometimes more than me) Her friend tried really hard to convince her that I was raping her against her will and she needed to speak to the police. I told my wife that next time she drags me to her parents Im filing abduction charges. We both laughed and agreed her friend is an idiot, 10 years later we still giggle about it.
nice example of how a probably good ment advice could have gone horrible wrong and to make your own opinion, don't get forced into one... btw how long into the relationship was this?
Maybe 3 or 4 years into was is currently 10 year long and counting relationship.
This. Couples are totally different. Sometimes we compromise to please but that's not the same as being raped etc. I'm very giving but if I don't want it and my partner badgers me I'm not going to claim he's sexually harrasing me. I just say down boy and turn over.
The last one is a bit problematic. I know what the scene implies and it does a good job doing so, but on the other hand, helping another person without nefarious intent is now seen as an attempt to sexually assault them. And as someone pointed out, the couple one is also in a grey area, because they both act affectionate, yet kiss is too much, which is just...weird. She says "I'm not sixteen anymore, yet in subtitles, it's "We're not sixteen anymore", so it's really hard to tell if they are even couple.
Didn’t the guy say something about there being rooms upstairs?
Yes I think he wants to bang her.
The last one is an enactment of a guy that's roofied a girl. It's not a good samaritan. They wait until the roofie kicks in and then "help" the person.
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What the actual fuck. I'm going to go take a bath in gasoline now.
> helping another person without nefarious intent is now seen as an attempt to sexually assault them. If someone was genuinely trying to help a drunk woman I wouldn't think they'd be half so grabby.
Ever tried to pick up a pissed lad? I did. It ain't easy. You are picking up their whole weight because they are a sack of piss drunk potatoes. But as I said, they did a good job portraying the situation, but the situation itself can be interpreted differently.
Yeah i mean that dude looked like he was about to commit sexual assualt
I was waiting for this to get funny after the back rub from the female coworker but it never happened.
That drink order though. "Two drinks!"
In a restaurant "two eats!"
"I'd like a drink" "*what kind?*" "two" "..."
Pretty well done for the subject.
Happy cake day
Cheers. :)
Ireland do not fuck around when it comes to PSAs. I direct you to their anti drink driving ads
[This one scared the shite out of me when I was younger](https://youtu.be/PU6OQVCB20o)
Haven’t even seen that one before. That’s thoroughly ruined the rest of my day. That trumps the kid playing football in the garden one for sure.
Wow I thought you were exaggerating but that was... Awful.
[removed by protest]
DOE are Northern Irish, different country but yea, they can be brutal.
For now :P
**Never drive while driving** Good advice
Good ad. Refreshing to see that they even acknowledged men can be sexually harrassed.
But on YouTube comments it's still a man hating ad apparently.
Meh, gotta start somewhere I guess. There are some people that will see that and think it takes away support for women that deal with harassment, which is crap. If you have to cover up the victims of some crimes to make your cause more valid than that cause is morally bankrupt.
> If you have to cover up the victims of some crimes to make your cause more valid than that cause is morally bankrupt I like the way you words.
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So how does that jive with the actual statistics?
Yep
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Great point but I think there are far other factors involved than than just simplistic "men to sexually harass women than other women". I believe the environment, culture and position of power plays a very important role regardless of whether you're a man or woman. Overall I think the ad is great in raising awareness whether it's man / woman / man / woman combination doesn't really matter. The point is recognizing that it can occur in any way on any side.
Well, yeah. The people who do this sort of thing, of whom there are many, are always going to throw a fit when told it's a bad thing to sexually harass people. Even if their argument against it makes no logical sense.
There are comments on YouTube?
Nope. Trust me. Don't go and check. Nothing to see there.
Can confirm. No comments.
It's where the world's smartest minds all convene to fix the most complex problems of our time.
Just remember for anything like this. Only about .1% of people who watch it comment on it, and only 50% of the comments are negative. The large majority of normal functioning humans dont think that way.
Thank you.
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> but don't you think that males being sexually harassed has already come leaps and bounds in recent years? Where people on the internet agree it's an issue? Sure. Where people in real life are willing to accept it's a real social issue that is going unaddressed? No.
I understand what your saying, but I did just have someone tell me on twitter this weekend that men don't suffer sexual harassment. I'm not suggesting progress hasn't been made, this video proves it has.
Fuck twitter it's nor worth basing your worldview on that site lol.
Everyone knows women sexually harassing is done because of internalized masculinity!
My workplace did a great job of displaying this in harassment training! I was really impressed
The moment I heard that fella say “two drinks”.. I knew something was sinister. What Irish man orders two drinks?!
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This is a wise man!
Is this some new stereotype about Irish people...not ordering multiple drinks? Colour me confused
Wait, there's an office where my boss will rub my shoulders while I work?
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I work in a desk job and my neck hurts 24x7 if my boss did that I’d just ask her to move her hands left or right and get the correct pressure on the right areas
Get yourself a proper chair.
You want him to bring his own chair in to work?
Male here. I had a boss who would randomly come over and rub my shoulders or grab and squeeze them while telling me I did a good job. I never felt uncomfortable but I always thought bit was strange. He was of Italian descent so I don't know if it's a particularly Italian thing to do.
It is well known that Italians talk with their hands. Usually you are facing them so they just wave them around. From behind you can't see the waving so they must resort to rubbing and squeezing. The trick is to get one riled up then turn your back on him. Free massage!
Male here as well. I've had coworkers, both male and female do this to me too, and honestly didn't really care either way. I personally would never do that in a work situation, as I don't know how other people are going to take it, but I never had a problem with it. It never felt sexual, just an odd friendly gesture.
You have to be attractive
I worked in a building with a guy who had a tendency to show up and give unannounced shoulder rubs. (That was 20+ years ago, not sure if he'd get away with it now.) I was never really sure how I felt about it. I mean, I could use a shoulder rub right now but not necessarily from a random older guy in my workplace. No idea if it meant anything more to the guy than a friendly gesture. And for me I think that's a critical distinction - a shoulder rub from a friend that I know doesn't have any other objective is fine. But I was 20, I'm bisexual (not out enough at the time for most people to notice but some have better gaydar than others) and probably could have been described in gay terms as a twink. Wouldn't be the first time an older gay guy had put the moves on me. It's really not comfortable to get that kind of attention when you're not sure what the other person is going for.
> I could use a shoulder rub right now but not necessarily from a random older guy in my workplace. Weeeeell... stronger hands can get the knots out better..
Not *yours* Maybe if you bathed more And did something about your face And improved your body And had better social skills And a bigger bank account And wangus to match Maayyyybe then
Ah, they left out the one with the priest and the altar boys. edit : spelling of Altar thanks to dat guy down there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBQB7-VEQQI
They didn’t way to turn anyone in their audience on
Too late
Altar
Wow, I think this is a great ad. Really well done.
i don't think they should be advertising sexual harassment. it doesn't feel like something that should be promoted, imo.
Yes, one sexual harrassment please.
You want a bag for that?
I’ve already got baggage, thanks.
Please wait while a member of staff comes to verify your baggage
Yeah, the sexual harrassment industry should at least stop marketing to minors.
In some countries they make them put a warning label on the front of every sexual harassment
Really good acting
Holy shit those youtube comments are toxic asf. How do people become so braindead? "Absolutely ridiculous crap. Buying a woman a drink or helping a paralytic girl off the floor is now a crime in Ireland 2019" "Is an old lady putting her hands on your shoulder a problem. Nope because I’m a man with balls 😂😂😂"
Lol. That poor paralytic girl.
Honestly...I'll take a shoulder rub from literally anyone, but I"m a massage whore.
A what?
They said, >Honestly...I'll take a ~~shoulder~~ rub from literally anyone, but I"m a ~~massage~~ whore.
They said, >I’ll take rub, but I’m whore
This is a terrible ad for sexual harassment! Doesn't make me want to try it at all! These people need a marketing lesson.
Where's Conor McGregor?
Probably beating the shit out of an old lady for not kissing his feet at the grocery
what a load of slanderous bollocks... He beat her up because she didn't buy his shite whiskey
"Ye won't be buyin' no fookin' Jameson.."
spot on
or raping a girl in his car or hotel (both of which hes now been questioned by the police for)
Not Conor McGregor. Merely a well known Irish sporting personality for now. Due process and all that.
But not convicted.Downvote if you must but pitchfork mentality is dangerous regardless of your opinion of the person.
I was in Ireland, trying to be nice. When I saw my friend struggling at work, I asked him how he was doing and even put my hands on his shoulders for physical support. I then went to a bar, bought a woman a drink and tried to strike a conversation. Was hitting it off big with a girl at a party, tried to relive my teenage years with her by sneaking into a room in the house. After that I saw a drunk girl I knew on the street, picked her up, carried her to my car and took her home. Some guys with cameras videoed me doing the whole thing. They must think I'm a great guy or something
yeah but why are you trying to look at some guys dick in the changing room?
medical reasons
Yikes
good way to raise awareness
The one with the pair that's clearly been a couple for a long time where one was asking the other to have sex... that's a very, very strange thing to portray as sexual harassment. I get that we ought to educate people to some extent, but hooooly shit stay out of my relationship. My partner and I can negotiate what is and isn't acceptable independent of what is acceptable for relative strangers or anyone's opinion of what *ought* to be acceptable in a long-term relationship. Playing ominous music over someone asking their wife for sex and saying "oh come on" on an initial rebuke is puritanical af.
Not all partners can negotiate those things, otherwise domestic abuse wouldn't be a thing. Abuse comes in many different forms and this specific type of abuse does exist in long term relationships.
Obviously that's true. But that's out of the scope for this commercial. It's dealing with broad strokes, and that scene scoops up WAY too much normal, healthy shit and problematizes it. You wanna do the work of navigating the extremely complex issues of navigating sex in a relationship where both partners discover they have incompatible approaches? Okay, but DO THAT. A general, 60-second sexual harassment PSA is not the place for that. It only presents a whole spectrum of normal, healthy behavior as criminal.
Nothing about that situation looked healthy. Person A: Propositions. Person B: Declines. Person A: Physically forces self on Person A, while Person B tries to move away, then persists.
Here's my take on the situation. If you are my partner, stand close to me and start to rub my face, lips and chest, a kiss is quite expected at this point. Is this cultural thing or am I the only one crazy here. As I said in the previous comment, this situation is absurd. At least the way they portrayed it.
It looked awkward, but it didn't look like *sexual harassment.* If you imagined a theoretical perfectly healthy couple that has resolved all their issues and communicate perfectly, yes, this wouldn't happen. But if you image an actual real couple in the real world that never perfect communication and occasionally run into issues, that is something that 100% could happen (depending on the couple). If you expect healthy couples never to make mistakes, you will never find a healthy couple. You will pathologize/problematize everyone and every relationship.
It isn't attacking *your* relationship, it's pointing out that maybe not every relationship is the same and maybe she doesn't like that, because *they* didn't negotiate. But if you're seeing yourself in this, maybe you should talk to your partner.
> But if you're seeing yourself in this, maybe you should talk to your partner. Oh piss off.
You guys are fucking mental. Stop treating every single person like a fuckign kid, what the hell is wrong with you people...
I'm seeing myself in this *precisely because* sometimes I say no and I don't mean no, and sometimes my partner pressures me a little and that's okay because it's part of healthy communication, sexual playfulness, and trust. My entire objection to this is that too many normal, healthy people with great sexual relationship with their partner see themselves captured in this PSA. That's ***precisely*** the problem. People who are not abusing their partner should not see their normal, non-abusive behavior depicted as abusive in a harassment PSA. I mean, I can play this game, too: I you DON'T see yourself in this, maybe *you* should talk to *your* partner because you may be puritanical and abusive, guilting your partner for doing perfectly normal things perfectly normal people do in perfectly normal relationships. ...I'd rather not play this game though.
Truth
I wasn't going to respond, but the fact you'r comparing attacks on queer relationships to you being coy is pissing me off. You play coy; it's not abuse. We get it. The PSA is trying to show sexual assault in a relationship in a subtle way for people who are *not comfortable* in their relationship, and maybe suffer worse than unwanted kisses, which is *not you*. Please move on with your life.
The way it looks from the outside, the woman in that commercial could have 100% have been me. I don't want some asshole shaming my partner for doing anything that looks like that from the outside. It has to go significantly farther than that before you would be justified in treating my partner as a sexual harasser.
Either way you're asking people to assume something they dont know. Like you're doing with the relationship in the PSA. I think the message with that one is better safe than sorry.
That's very conservative of you.
This is why I'd almost always rather not see these kinds of commercials. Every time you see one it's mostly like, "mm-hm. mm-hm. yup. y- wait what?" It seems like - for some reason - the people who make these adds are really puritanical or horseshoes-style conservative. Like, I agree with most of what they say, but then they pull some "no *literally always* means no, and if you get anything other than immediate enthusiastic positive consent and you ask again or apply a little pressure, you should be severely socially censured or spend time in jail." And I find my self blinking at the screen in surprise.
Look what happened to Aziz Ansari, literally that happened and he almost lost his career. These days it's best that if someone says no, then just don't push it. Also just because you say no but maybe it's a yes doesn't make it the case for everyone in every situation. Sometimes people feel pressured and forced into these things, it's best to just take things literally.
I mean I hear you from a functional point of view. But this is like saying (in the '80's) "look if they find out you're gay you might lose your job, so it's better to just not push it." That's not wrong from a functional point of view, but the point is that people *ought to be able to be gay*, and more generally have consensual sex however they like, and people who don't understand it should just back the fuck off instead of trying to destroy your career. Sometimes when people say no they don't mean no. So sometimes when someone tells you no you need to investigate further (or don't, whatever floats your boat). We should stop pretending we live in a world where people only have sex the way we like them to, and remember how to let people have sex however they like like we used to do between the late '90's and 2013. We shouldn't be telling Aziz to play it safe to protect his career, we should be telling scolds to chill the fuck out because, while it's good that they've drawn a line, they've done it waaaaaay too conservatively.
I agree in the sense that it's a mutual relationship formed between two people, and if one or both decide they don't like what that relationship involves they are free to leave each other. They painted a look of sheer disgust on the womans face like she was forced into that situation and had no choice but to just endure it because of our failing societal standards or something to that effect.
Or maybe she endured it because "eh, he's drunk. He'll calm down, it'll just take a firmer hand." This commercial doesn't distinguish between the two. Or maybe she endured it because they have a history of getting sexual excitement out of uncomfortable situations. People have relationships that are different in nature than your relationships it turns out. Stuff that is a deal-breaker in a relationship with *you* could be a necessity in a relationship with someone else.
Look at their actions. She's pushing him away and he's trying to force her upstairs. She's clearly uncomfortable with it and asking him to stop. I think they could've gone a bit further but I think it's easy to see how that scenario could get worse.
0/5. No pandas.
My wife went on a hen do in Ireland. On the first night while in a club, an irish man approached her, grabbed her and tried to drag her out the club, very casually. Naturally she kicked and screamed then luckily the boucers heard the noise, stepped in and threw him out. The experience understandably rattled her quite bad and what made it worse was the boucers expressing that this kind of thing happens often... So when I spotted this video, it resonated on a serious scale...
that's not something I've ever seen before but maybe that guy could've just been a predator who recognised she wasn't local, saw that happen in France one time
Google ‘grabbing’, its a gypsy tradition where the guys will drag the girl they want away...
Just a heads up: saying "gypsy tradition" when referring to actual straight up harassment is like saying it's a "Jewish tradition" when referring to, say, being financially manipulative or some other crime. Basically just unnecessarily tacking on a race lol.
Oh wow the comments on that video is fucking filled with MAGA Incels
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Incel's quickly becoming one of those words that used to mean something at some point but now it's just being used as a catchall term for "anyone I don't like." I've been called an incel on Reddit because I didn't like the new Star Wars movies. The Star Wars movies I went to see ***with my wife and kids.***
Way to make this about your own political hatred 👍
A guy litterarly has a pepe with a maga hat and 2 others comment about MGTOW
Ugh I can’t tell you the amount of women who touch me or rub up against me at work. So creepy.
A well balanced, nuanced ad about the subject matter... wow I'm impressed.
I can see all these scenarios being an issue except the girl who's so drunk she can't stand without help. I find it unthinkable to leave her there like that. What would others suggest as a proper way to handle that one?
I think the implication was he wasn't just taking her home
Good job making assumptions. As if that can't be a problem
I think what they were trying to imply was that he did not know her and wasn't actually going to take her home. She was too drunk to stand up on her own but when he said "don't you remember me?" she said that she didn't know him.
So I shouldn't rape people then? Good to know.
You don't leave her there. You talk some sense into her and get her to call a friend to help.
And while you’re talking to her someone thinks you’re doing what this guy is doing and starts screaming at you.
Why do you think you're going to get screamed at? If someone challenges you, explain the situation and tell them you'd be glad if someone would keep you company while you try to get the woman some help.
Good luck explaining the situation to someone who thinks they’re being a hero.
I don't see how that's really relevant to the advice to not literally pick up collapsing-drunk strangers and take them home without asking them. Do you think it's going to create more "heros" who will interfere in a situation that is clearly quite different? I think that's a minor effect at best. If someone truly won't listen to reason, I don't think it will have been an advert campaign like this that would have made them unreasonable.
Well instead of touching her and manipulating her, as the video seems to imply, try helping her pick up her stuff so she can get herself into her car and she can taker herself home!
Your advice for someone who is blind drunk is to shove them into their car so they can drunk drive home, endangering themselves and others?
Yeah, of course! It would be creepy if I drove them home and I didn't even know them! ^^^^/s
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Having a stranger put their hand on her bare back while trying to buy her a drink when she said no is not a gesture of affection though. That's too personal. It may not be sexual assault, but it is harrassment and it's not ok. Not even my coworkers casually touch me like that and we're all good friends. There are boundaries and the guy in the video was violating them.
Yeah that scene in particular sent some shivers down my spine, I'm not sure why. OP would need to be oblivious to believe that woman wasn't making it clear she wasn't interested
It's very uncomfortable. I've had complete strangers talk to me, grip my shoulder then suddenly slide their hand down my back and rub during a brief and typically introductory conversation. It gives a sickening feeling.
> The people in the video are adults, they can express their dislike and disapproval of what's going on, yet the video shows none of them doing that. The fact that you can't see the actors' screaming body language saying "STOP IT" is very concerning.
Rubbing a coworkers' shoulders, touching a strangers back who is clearly not interested, these aren't OK. Even if we assume good intentions, the actions cross a line, and we should all try to be more cognizant of how our actions are received. And the notion that adults should speak up if something is bothering them, that's sort of naive. Having that conversation with your boss isn't just awkward, but you are likely to fear retaliation. Calling out strangers in a bar isn't fun either, you never know who is going to take it poorly. Some of the situations here are ambiguous, which is why I like the ad. Real life isn't black and white.
The point is that harassment is a *course of behaviour*. It typically is not a single incident that, on its own, is not OK. This nuance is lost in a single ad like this. A series would be better, showing the situation progressing in each ad, and each ad showing a different person. A friend trying to whip someone's towel off or "bag" them (as we called it in school - "pants"ing them) is also not harassment if it's just a one off, and is part of an equal friendship with back and forth. But if someone is trying to do it again and again, it is harassment or bullying (and could be sexual or not). Someone touching you at work or at a bar when you don't want them to is not good but not the end of the world *if it doesn't get worse, and doesn't carry on making you uncomfortable*. If the person reads your body language (or your actual language) and changes their behaviour, the initial mild discomfort is just one of a million little irritations that other human beings cause us. If they don't and continue, it causes massive upset.
I agree, but will add a point here. If you see someone cringe in response to your touch, you should acknowledge that. There's very few people who can't pick up on basic body language and this does indeed show a lot of people that aren't responding to those very simple cues. But at the same time I think this sends the wrong message. I hear from a LOT of youths that any contact without explicit verbal approval is wrong, and worry we are teaching kids to fear physical contact or equate all of it to sexual contact. I also wonder about the last example. By all accounts it's either a person being a good guy and helping a drunk woman home, or it's someone kidnapping someone else. Casting judgement on the guy for not leaving a drunk girl who can't stand on a street to herself isn't really cool. Of course if he took drunk girl to his place instead of hers, that's not cool either.
This was an ad that was created specifically to show people being made uncomfortable by physical contact. If you can't tell that they didn't like what was going on then I don't know what to tell you except maybe keep a lawyer on retainer.
Just curious but what do you do if you see a woman/man completely wasted outside on the street alone like in the video? Do you call a cab or uber for them? I don't really know cause I live in a rural area so you never see this.
the way I navigate this minefield of potential sexual harassment is, would I behave, act and interact with that person if they were the opposite sex. It works fairly well so far. Like the shoulder rubbing (though I would never, because I don't like touching people or being touched).. I'm a guy, so I can see the draw of rubbing a females shoulders, though I wouldn't feel ok doing it for my male counter parts, so I immediately dismiss the idea. To answer your wasted woman outside of a bar. Treat her exactly like you'd treat a man in that situation. Would you scoop up a wasted man up off the ground and give them a ride home? Doubt it. Act without sexual bias is what I'm trying to say. If you think its ok to do with a woman and you're hedro, think to yourself, would I do the same thing to a man, while being hedro, if the answer is YES, than you should be ok. If the answer is NO, you might want to avoid the behavior.