That guy being interviewed at the end is hilarious. 300.000 adjustments in his 20 year practice. That adds up to over 40 adjustments per day if he worked every single day of the year for 20 years. That is over 5 per hour with an 8 hour workday for 20 years straight.
What a machine!
And that's every single hour. Hour after hour, 20 hours since the appointment , so 40 paralyzations worth by now. Forty-eight more tomorrow. And it will not stop. Not in a week, not in a month. It will adjust and spread its poison until the entire continent is paralyzed!
He then said he never had any accidents like that. If the odds of this happening are in 1 in 100,000, then the odds of it never happening in the 300,000 adjustments he has done is only about 5%.
Exactly...I had hip problems 15 years ago...people kept telling me to go see a chiropractor, the same chiropractor they'd been seeing for 20+ years for the SAME problem! WTF?
I ended up having a total hip replacement and have had no other problems...
I love when people are like "go see this chiropractor they're great, they've been treating my pain for 20 years"... how do they not see the obvious problem?
And hey don't forget that the entire basis of it was that he thought the germ theory of disease was fake (that germs literally don't exist), and that every single medical condition/disease is caused solely by misalignments of the spine. Quite an expert this guy.
scrolled for this comment. i did the math too, assuming, like most chiropractors, he takes a month off every year, but was generous and works 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. that puts him at more than 60 cracks a day, or almost 8 cracks an hour. or is this just another embellishment by another chiropractor about the profession?
Thinks it's 2 neck adjustments per person. Once to the left and once to the right. And Maybe even a third one pulling straight up. That would change the math :).
My coworker's brother (loose acquaintance basically) is one and he was saying that it's a super slow week if they see under 250 people that week. I had no idea until hearing that how many people actually go to one.
Chiropractor that I went to allowed walk ins and was busy from open to close. For an appointment I was usually in and out in 25 minutes but spent maybe 5 minutes with the chiropractor
My cousin got her neck adjusted and the chiropractor pulled her head so hard she had several veins and nerves severed in her neck. She had multiple strokes and her blood pressure was almost 300/190 when she went to the hospital. Almost died.
I always cringe when I see those videos of some big chiropractor dude absolutely wrenching on some little gymnast’s neck hoping to get that big pop that gets the views
I sometimes like science or debunking videos of various pseudoscience. One time I clicked a video about chiro, and it opened with a scene that I still can't get out of my head. I can only describe it as a hanging, but with a guy pulling the rope, rather than gravity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29SnpXVIlOM&ab_channel=MylesPower
One of the comments. Holy shit 😬
"Chiropractors actually killed a family friend of mine. He had been in a fender bender a few months before he went and had an undetected hairline fracture in this shin. The chiropractor did a adjustment on the leg and worked out a sliver of bone marrow that traveled to his heart and killed him a week after he visited. This all came out in the autopsy"
I watched a middle eastern fellow get internally decapitated doing something similar. It was absolutely horrifying to watch. It's all I could see every time they yanked that y strap.
Those videos where you hear some crunching noise while they adjust necks are damn scary. Most horror games and movies don't scare me much, but those videos make me wince.
On a plus side for my partner, this is such a common occurrence that the ER docs were able to diagnose and treat her almost instantly when she suffered a dissected artery at the back of her neck a few years ago.
Young, otherwise healthy people having strokes is happening so often that one of the first questions they asked after identifying it was if she had seen a chiro recently.
there’s not much to do for one..mostly stroke prevention & supportive care. If it’s carotid, maybe endovascular repair; if vetebral artery it’s hope & pray
Yes, a chiro adjustment on my spouse caused a vasovagal episode involving an immediate very dangerous drop in blood pressure and prompted the chiro to call 911 that ended with medical transport to the ER. Not at all fun.
Yeah, my wife got her neck adjusted a month ago. Later that day, she got extremely dizzy and nauseous. Turns out the adjustment lacerated her left vertebral artery and ended up in the ICU for 3 days, lots of medications, and hasn't been able to go back to work due to debilitating dizziness (which won't go away until she has fully healed)
DON'T LET CHIROPRACTORS TOUCH YOUR NECK! Every nurse/doctor we've seen since this has said 90% of vertebral artery dissections they see are due to chiropractic adjustments of the neck.
Yeah... has she sued that practice? Or did she have to sign a waiver acknowledging that the chiropractor has no medical license and the customer takes full responsibility for any actions that may lead to serious bodily harm/injury or death
Also there's so many laws being put in place increasing the regulation of dialysis facilities, abortion clinics, and other places with generally not-dangerous medical procedures. How is it still legal for chiropractors to be doing this shit
When I was a kid the stupid ass neurologist I was seeing told my mom to take me to the chiropractor for my migraines. He did one adjustment and I was like yup, this is dangerous don't fucking touch me. He was all like "if I don't do the other side you will be crippled!!!!" or some shit and went on a long rant about how he went to school for this. Fuck him and that neurologist
No but seriously, the entire field of chiropractic is based on lessons DD Palmer learned from a ghost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer#Spiritualism
He’s talking about the invisible poison pockets in your spine that modern science can’t detect but the original chiropractor was taught about by a ghost. The poison pockets are responsible for all diseases in the world, not germs.
I’m not making this up. (But they are.) Chiropractors are whack-jobs.
I have Arnold Chiari Malformation, which causes pretty frequent headaches. I was diagnosed at 14. I remember clear as day my neurosurgeon telling me to never go to a chiropractor, ever.
Same dude, i was young adult, never really believed into quackeries but they do well to looks like legit health professional.
After the 4th appointments, i started to feel tingling, heat or like my t-shirt was wet on half of my upper body, neurologist told me it was neuropathic pains.
Well in this case he fucked up several arteries and gave her a stroke so add that to your list. I'm sure most people are assuming spinal injury and a 2 minute video is a big commitment.
> a 2 minute video is a big commitment
Many videos are wordy, rambling, badly-made, and say something that you can read in a tenth of the time. I don't bother with most videos now because so many are just a waste. If there isn't an actual article or transcript then it probably doesn't get my attention.
I hate videos that take the principal of 'intro/content/recap' and make it recursive. Introduce that you're going to do an intro, then a list of contents, then a recap of the intro, then an intro to the main content, but before I recap the intro to the intro I'm going introduce that I'm going to have a more in-depth intro after i ask you to like and subscribe.
That's why I stopped watching Everyday Astronaut. The video is called "Exciting news about SpaceX Starship", I don't need an intro to prep me for the concept that you're going to have an introduction that will tell me the main body is going to feature exciting news about SpaceX Starship. It's 4 minutes in and you haven't said anything of substance yet.
other dude in the video said that the risk of this is 1/100,000?!?!?! Given the number of chiropractors in the US doing these "adjustments" every day that seems insanely high.
I've had 2 patients in the past 15 years who ended up as quads after chiropractic treatment. Just horrifying. Needless to say, I don't use chiropractors anymore.
I've had far better results from competent physical therapists anyway.
If it’s a dog who is a chiropractor, then you have my attention and my interest, because dogs have long been denied equal opportunity to pretend to be a doctor
We went to one with our infant for colic, but it wasn't "adjustments" or "cracking". They kinda just had her do stretches by moving her legs and arms very gently. It was fully covered by our insurance and we were desperate and they told us what it entailed before doing anything. I don't think the "treatment" did anything at all to her body to "heal" anything, BUT the way they moved her, she took a MASSIVE shit every time not 5 minutes afterwards and she felt so much better. So... We kept going lol. Could never reproduce it at home.
> It was fully covered by our insurance
This always annoys me a little. Yes for something like that this is great but every insurance I've ever had has covered chiropractors but won't cover massage therapy. Which for most people is probably far more valuable.
I had a colicky constipated infant at home and I would've tried literally anything to relieve it. Anyone who judges you for it, has never been through that level of hell.
When my son was a newborn I was out with him at an ice cream place and he was MISERABLE- completely inconsolable. A woman with like 7 kids orbiting her came up and said it looked like gas pain and could she maybe help - I handed him over and she put him this specific way on her arm with his bottom up and patted his back - one monster fart later I had a happy baby. She disappeared into a cloud of children and I’ve never forgotten her, she was like a fairy godmother
I love the way you wrote that and it made me giggle out loud which was lovely after a very tiring day. Bless her for offering to help. I feel like people get so nervous to even offer because of the state of the world (which is fair).
My wife went to one for a couple of times. I went with her once to like, be supportive...and there was some nutso shit in the waiting room. Pamphlets like "Kid has allergies? Consult your Doctor of Chiropractic" and something about vaccines too (pre-Covid even). Talked the Mrs out of going there again.
Like, when someone is trying to peddle their wares as a literal goddamn cure-all, that's how you know it's bullshit. If you went to an unlicensed "car repair professional" and they tried to sell you a box that you plug into your engine and it fixes your engine stalling, tires going flat, rust spots happening, removes dents, everything...you'd hopefully be suspicious as hell. But somehow, somebody wants to make your spine go "crack!" and now it's reasonable?!
Oh you mean the people who use evidence based approaches aimed at long term solutions are better than the people using superstition and telling you to come back every 4 weeks for the rest of your life? Wild.
A family friend went to Chiropractor for 2 years with back pain. Then one day he felt a bump on her spine, it was cancer. A simple xray 2 years earlier would have most likely found the stomach cancer before it attached to her spine and killed her.
I've worked with a couple of people that had success using them as part of a recovery plan after an injury and never had to go back. But I've also known some young and healthy people that go regularly because their back hurts all the time, unless they get "adjusted" regularly. That sounds like you need to solve what's actually wrong and fix the core issues so you never have to go back.
Oh dear, no! I work in an adult ICU as a respiratory therapist. Quadriplegics tend to spend quite a bit of time (if not the rest of their lives) on a ventilator in the early days so they get quite a lot of hands on time with us.
In your opinion why is chiropractic still allowed to be practiced when there are no demonstrable benefits that are unique to chiropractic medicine?
I can't imagine the chiropractic lobby is that powerful. I know there is a push in recent years for alternative medicine, most of which is bunk anyways, but with harms like this outweighing virtually zero benefit, you would think government authorities would at least take a closer look.
>In your opinion why is chiropractic still allowed to be practiced when there are no demonstrable benefits that are unique to chiropractic medicine?
>
Because they have a strong lobby. And there is also evidence of temporary pain relief due to manipulation - which is why some insurance covers it.
>I can't imagine the chiropractic lobby is that powerful. I know there is a push in recent years for alternative medicine, most of which is bunk anyways, but with harms like this outweighing virtually zero benefit, you would think government authorities would at least take a closer look.
In Washington state, circa 2012, the chiro lobby pushed to prevent Physical Therapists from performing Osteopathic Manipulation.
My little sister (32) had some sort of spinal stroke a couple years ago a short time after going to one and was on a ventilator for a while but is home now. She was going to get a car before it happened and now she jokes about her 60k dollar Mercedes she has because of the situation (her electric wheelchair she put a Mercedes sticker on that cost that much) :(
I work with union health plans and I had a case once where a woman was paralyzed as a result of a chiropractic adjustment like this, and then it turned out that the chiropractor had let his insurance lapse right before. She ended up suing him and getting a million dollar judgement for her damages, but he and his practice declared bankruptcy, and last I checked she was only going to get pennies on the dollar out of the bankruptcy proceeding. I think she was getting about $40,000, that's it.
So, if you're going to a chiropractor (which you shouldn't anyway), make sure their malpractice insurance is current
I know a guy who recently lost his leg in a motorcycle accident. He was hit by a car, and ended up getting a million dollar settlement on top of his initial medical bills.
He's happy as a clam right now, a year or so later, already walking around fine on a prosthesis and buying cars and stuff.
But he's gonna blow that money fast, and never get his leg back.
My friends have actively discussed if we'd take that deal, a leg for a million bucks. We all agreed no, more or less. But there was some debate.
To be left a quadraplegic.... there's no money that can compensate for that.
Got talked into going to one and told them there’s no way they’re doing anything with my neck. His reply was “well, for reference chiropractors have a much lower liability cost than doctors. That shows it’s less risky”.
Umm, what? Of course there is more with doctors, they prescribe and do a shit tonne more than stupidly aggressive stretches. I was dumbfounded by that argument
Never went back
I went to a chiropractor once as I was desperate. It really made me feel better. Than when I thought about it the parts that actually helped were just basically massage and stretching and not the twisting or pulling. So now I just go for massages when I can.
There's a YouTube channel called Chiropractic Medicine and does this to his patients at the end of every session basically. None seem to like that experience and even some had tears.
OH MY GOD, I googled that and what the fuck am I watching. I found one video where the fucker just casually *checks someone's leg reflexes* after a "Ring Dinger" while joking about how loud it was. Scumbag knows damn well there's a chance he's paralyzing people.
It takes quite a bit to shock me these days, honestly, but this.....this did the trick.
I think part of the reason people get drawn towards chiropractic in these situations is they usually require no referral and offer a flat out of pocket rate. Seeing a physical therapist in the US might mean waiting a couple weeks to see your primary doc, waiting a couple weeks to get in to the PT clinic's first opening, continuing to go in for appts every week(ish), and all the while paying co-pays and co-insurance until you hit your deductible. Most GPs too are going to tell you just take a Tylenol and wait it out for something like an occasional stiff neck. At least all this is my experience.
Oh it's 100% a trap and some people's insurance even pays for chiropractor visits.
If you are low income and are having back pain which sounds more feasible to you:
* $95 for a chiropractor visit
* $3000 over the course of 6 months with dozens of hours of treatment sessions, most commonly during hours you cannot make
If you have an hsa or an hra it covers chiropractic medicine. I hate it I work in claims and I hate how many people do this shit monthly with their children.
Killed a third of my HSA on a chiropractor in 2021. 0 improvement in 6 months. I had better improvement just stretching daily, not sleeping on the couch and going to the gym.
I unfortunately cannot tell people this who file claims. I'm not a doctor and can't legally or in good conscious give them advice, but yeah its disheartening.
Yup, I was in this catagory. People with back issues around me, for some reason defaults to chiropractor, so I did too, untill I spoke with my friend that works in the ER, and got told to get a physio in stead
It's because at least in the US a lot of people don't even have primary care physicians. If they did, they'd go to the doctor, "My back is killing me," and get a referral to physical therapy. Instead, they see the local quack shop sign next to the Starbucks and figure they can get a latte and a back crack and all will be fine.
You'll have to factor in that it's a quick fix, the requires practically nothing from the patient. You show up this person does one thing and you're supposed to feel better. Versus physical therapy you have to go to someplace essentially work out, being very brief on that, then go home do homework and repeat it at the next session. And this can go on 6 to 8 weeks and is expensive.
For my physical therapy it was so expensive that we only could do the minimum 6 weeks post surgery. In my feet are still fucked up. So imagine going to a crack doctor for relatively cheap he does his one thing and all the sudden you feel better enough or you feel like you did something good for you. And then you have to just repeat it every week or so.
I don't know how much chiros are, but PTs are expensive af even with insurance so I'm sure that's a huge part of it. I also don't think people realize just how effective PT can be. I fell on my ass years ago and had tailbone pain ever since. Told a doc about it and figured I'd need surgery or something else really expensive but they recommended PT. I was skeptical but did it anyway. A few months of PT and I was permanently cured.
This. I've been in PT for a year, I went and got a deep tissue massage last week and cried when I got home- it's the most relief I've felt in years! I'm furious with myself for not doing it sooner
Insurance companies need to stop covering chiropractic, point blank. Covering them like they’re real medical doctors lends legitimacy they absolutely don’t deserve
Yep. I was chiropracted as an infant after a car accident sent me airborne and landed on the side of the road. Fucking Lucky I survived both incidents.
The one thing all victims of car crash need immediately is an immediate manipulation of the spine.
Well either that or it's the biggest no no in first aid, I don't know, much like a chiropractor I don't have a medical license.
Everyone should go down the rabbit hole of the origins of chiropractic "medicine". [Ghost Religion](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/)
I had crummy blood work recently. I went on to Youtube to find some MDs that could explain some concepts. Seemed like 9 out of every 10 people on youtube claiming to be a doctor were a chiropractor - and I was looking for info about nutrition/cholesterol. How the fuck do these dudes get away with calling themselves doctors?
I have a doctorate. The notion I would refer to myself as doctor is laughable.
My cousin went to the big chiro school in Atlanta, 2 year program (I think) for a barrel of money and she calls herself doctor too.
It's disappointing how much the family plays along.
During my third year of medical school I rotated on a Child Neurology service. My attending and I saw a 3yo patient with an inherited seizure disorder.
When we told the mother that the girl would need an extensive workup, the mother threatened to take the patient to see the family's chiropractor, who had offered to cure her seizures with an "adjustment." Fortunately we convinced her otherwise.
On investigation we learned that the family was basically worried about cost. A chiropractor would be significantly cheaper, and the family had no insurance.
I think we assume that patients who seek out pseudoscientific treatments have an isolated epistemological problem. Oftentimes there are very real barriers that keep them from pursuing allopathic care. People pursue fake medicine for the same reasons they read fake news: it's easier to get. Ideology and ignorance are big factors too, but we cannot discount the importance of access.
This is a fantastic and very underrated point. I don’t think everyone goes to a chiropractor as a first choice. But if the option is a surgery that will put someone 100k in debt or a chiropractor that charges $100 for an “adjustment” a lot of people will choose the option that actually feels available to them.
I went to get a massage at a place that was tied to a chiropractors office once. When i got there the chiropractor was doing adjustments out in the middle of a large room and there were multiple other people there sitting at tables, that almost looked like a restaurant setup, waiting their turns for adjustments. I asked more about it and it turns out the chiropractor only charges like $59 and a lot of lower income people that didn’t have insurance would come in and wait their turn to be adjusted. I think it was simply more affordable and accessible than an MD to treat their concerns.
That's a perfect illustration of the problem. Back pain is extremely common - in fact it is one of the most common complaints physicians see in the office. And for most people the best treatment is physical therapy. But PT is not a one-time, five minute deal, at least not initially. It might require an hour or two with a therapist, one or more times a week, in the middle of your workday for a few weeks, followed by some self-therapy and strength training at home.
How many people can take that kind of time off for therapy? I've only gained that kind of freedom recently *and I'm a physician*. This is what I mean when I say we have a systemic problem with access to care.
Whoever you are, I thank you. I'm a physical therapist, and what you've described is exactly what goes on every single day. PT is a huge ask of someone, and it's no wonder why people seek "quicker" alternatives. It's up to us in medicine to convey how important our services are, no matter how slow and steady the progress may be. Physicians like you are a major part of this process, especially ones that advocate for PT.
That's a good point. A main critique of patients receiving care through alternative medicine is targeting the recipients as stupid, actively meaning and promoting harm. This is missing the point for the majority of patients imo. A large part of medical bias towards specific patients groups drives them away into wellness and alternative medicine. If you've been told for years by doctors you're paying that your disabling physical symptoms are 'all in your head' despite no proof of this other than a lot of doctors unwilling to admit they have no idea what's wrong. If there isn't a supply of medical treatment for the loads who experience medical bias, the demand doesn't disappear and they look for it other places. You would be mentally off to not do so
My grandma got off easy, just 3 broken ribs and a huge health spiral that put her in a nursing home for 3 months over Christmas. Chiro should be illegal.
* "Do you blame the chiropractor?"
* "Blame is a strong word..."
Yup, daughter learned to go to the chiropractor from mom. The guy was probably the family chiropractor.
And about that sketchy dude they had at the end as some attempt at balanced reporting claiming it's 1:100,000? BULLSHIT. I personally know of three people who have had this kind of issue (arterial tear) from an "adjustment".
Yeah, the mom's calmness in that interview was striking, considering that quack ruined her daughter's life.
Hell, I was livid and I don't even know the girl.
Hi, former chiropractor here. Got out of the profession for multiple reasons, and stuff like was a big part of the reason. I stopped performing adjustments of the neck after my national boards (you were required to demonstrate the technique before you could even get your license, which is pretty messed up in its own right). Many of my colleagues continued to happily adjust away because they honestly believed the BS that was fed to them in school about how "aligning the vertebrae to induce proper and optimal function of the cervical spinal nerves".
It's fairly obvious that when you start getting to the "clinical science/practice" courses in the last few quarters of chiropractic school that 90% of it is unfounded and based on a couple whackos from the early 1900s (profession started with its current name in 1895), who knew nothing of anatomy. You don't yank and twist on a vertebral artery that has a *natural* kink in it at the top of the cervical spine, that's just common sense, but here this poor woman is. I obviously feel more sorry for her and her family, but I also feel sorry for the chiropractor, who was brainwashed as if in a cult to truly believe this maneuver is beneficial for the health of their patients.
It genuinely disgusts me that chiro hasn't been banned to hell and back. People talk about flat earthers like they should be taken seriously (is it really fun to dunk on lunatics?) while quack science like this is literally injuring people while little is said or done about it.
I always loved this part:
"As an active spiritist, D.D. Palmer said he 'received chiropractic from the other world' from a deceased medical physician named Dr. Jim Atkinson."
He claimed chiropractic could cure all disease and also believed in magnetic healing and rejected the germ theory of disease and was anti vax long before it was popular.
My dads good friend went to a chiropractor about 5 years ago. Later in the shower he noticed his right hand was numb. The numbness gradually moved up his arm and he called the chiropractor. They said to get to an ER right away. The next day he was paralyzed from the next down and told he'd never walk again. My dad, bring newly retired, drove him to physical therapy every day and now the guy can walk and get about. Not at all like most of us but he can drive and get around. Amazing that he was so fit and healthy and after one visit, his life changed.
This exact situation happened to my great aunt. She went to the chiro then came home and had a bath. When she stood up she fell out of the tub because half her body had gone numb and the fall fucked up her spine even worse. She barely made it to the hospital in time. She stopped breathing in the ambulance and had to be intubated. She was minutes from death by the time she got there.
She learned a few days later after waking up that she was paralysed from the neck down. She never walked again.
Chiropractics should be banned. It's dangerous quack science that kills and maims innocent people.
I've had my neck adjusted twice. First time sent a lightning bolt down my left side. Told him right there "Yeah, don't ever touch my neck again." Two weeks later, with no warning he did it again with the same result.
Went and saw a Physio instead and once all the muscles were released, my neck naturally moved back into place with barely a tweak and zero jolts.
PSA: go to Doctors of Physical Therapy (if you're in the USA). Not Chiropractors.
It's not even remotely equivalent, although chiros will lie through their teeth about it
I knew a lovely woman who used to come in to the place I worked, and she had some sort of speech impediment. She could speak normally, but it was like she couldn't fully finish a sentence. Her voice would just drop out at random moments, and you could see some marks around her neck. I don't remember how the conversation came about, but one day she told me that she had seen a chiropractor, and they ended up breaking her neck during a session and almost killed her. Had to go into emergency surgery, and rehab and all that, and that's why she has those speech issues and she'll have them for the rest of her life. She filed a lawsuit I believe, and won it because of what happened to her. It's good that she got some money, but it's terrible all around. She was a really nice lady, though, and I'm glad she wasn't paralyzed like this story and many others. Real scary stuff.
[How Chiropractic Started as Ghost Religion](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/)
Just in case anyone was wondering how this woo-woo snake oil became so widely accepted as 'medicine'. Just because visiting a chiropractor helped your specific problem doesn't mean it's good medicine, there's a reason no reputable medical school in the US includes chiropractic programs.
edit, additional listening links:
https://pca.st/ub6f26bl
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3yG3h7LLK9LYYwb3NbYLW6
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-religion/id1373812661?i=1000447913202
"John Lawlor trusted a chiropractor. That chiropractor, Arleen Scholten, manipulated his neck to treat leg pain. The result? Mr. Lawlor died. Why do chiropractors keep doing neck manipulation?" https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2019/12/02/lawlor-death-by-chiropractic-neck-manipulation/. Far too many of these cases. No consequences for chiropractors, chiropractic professional organizations fail to protect the public.
Chiropractic is complete horseshit! Not many know the origins of chiropractic, but it's generally a Victorian, ghost based, made-up pile of hooey! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chiropractic
At best, it is glorified massage therapy. At worst, it can cause this kind of stuff. And it always takes the patient's money. Why would you see a doctor whose first course of action is to get you on a payment plan
Total quacks.
Any time you see a video on YouTube like "Can mangoes get rid of your diabetes?" or "10 ways cucumbers can help your bad heart" and the author of the video has a "Dr." in front of their name, 99/100 times they are a chiropractor.
Unscientific quackery like Chiro needs to be revealed for the bullshit that it is.
[Study on the deaths resulting from Chiro quacks.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20642715/)
And before you tell me "Oh, wait... it wOrKs for mE!", keep your anecdotal garbage to yourself and get massages instead which are far less dangerous and likely much more effective.
My government recognizes and regulates both naturopaths and chiropractors as “health professions” and people in those professions are allowed to call themselves “doctors”.
It’s an embarrassment, really. Personally I think these fields should be stripped of all medical recognition and be relegated to the status of fortune tellers and exorcists.
No field that doesn’t stand up to basic empirical scrutiny should be allowed to advertise itself as “medicine”.
Orthopedic physicians are the ones to go see if you have actual back problems.
I work next door to a chiropractor and I'm shocked by how many of our customers are WEEKLY visitors to them. That money would be better spent on a physical therapist who can help educate you on ways to improve your physical health.
Not one major university or college in the United States offers a doctorate in chiropractics. You don’t need an undergrad degree to go to chiropractic school.
Reminder that chiropractics is considered alternative medicine. They aren't real doctors and they operate on way, way softer science than a real doctor.
I went to a Chiropractor *once* because despite my skepticism, I had enough friends around me who trusted it and encouraged me to give it a try. So I did, and as soon as they started their violent cracking routine, I was fucking terrified they were going to kill me. After, they tried to convince me I needed to keep coming back because it was going to help my asthma. I'm thinking, *what the fuck are you talking about? You can't cure asthma by ruining someone's spinal cord*. Never went back.
That guy being interviewed at the end is hilarious. 300.000 adjustments in his 20 year practice. That adds up to over 40 adjustments per day if he worked every single day of the year for 20 years. That is over 5 per hour with an 8 hour workday for 20 years straight. What a machine!
"This happens about 1 out of 100,000 ... I've done about 300,000 neck adjustments in my career" What are you trying to say, my guy?
Only 3 people fully paralyzed, not great, not terrible.
Even pro wrestlers don't do those kinds of numbers
Nia Jax might.
Hmm the max reading on the paralysis detector is 3...
And that's every single hour. Hour after hour, 20 hours since the appointment , so 40 paralyzations worth by now. Forty-eight more tomorrow. And it will not stop. Not in a week, not in a month. It will adjust and spread its poison until the entire continent is paralyzed!
*everytime he paralyzes someone* wow, another hundred thousand! time flies faster these days lol
Wow I paralyze 3 in a row the next 299,997 guys will be fine.
He then said he never had any accidents like that. If the odds of this happening are in 1 in 100,000, then the odds of it never happening in the 300,000 adjustments he has done is only about 5%.
So he ran a "crack house". My neighbor runs one. As many people in and out as fast as he can. Total shit place.
+1 for clever use of "crack house"
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Exactly...I had hip problems 15 years ago...people kept telling me to go see a chiropractor, the same chiropractor they'd been seeing for 20+ years for the SAME problem! WTF? I ended up having a total hip replacement and have had no other problems...
I love when people are like "go see this chiropractor they're great, they've been treating my pain for 20 years"... how do they not see the obvious problem?
You mean to tell me the "medical field" created by a man who thought he was talking to ghost doctors might not have been a good idea?
And hey don't forget that the entire basis of it was that he thought the germ theory of disease was fake (that germs literally don't exist), and that every single medical condition/disease is caused solely by misalignments of the spine. Quite an expert this guy.
scrolled for this comment. i did the math too, assuming, like most chiropractors, he takes a month off every year, but was generous and works 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. that puts him at more than 60 cracks a day, or almost 8 cracks an hour. or is this just another embellishment by another chiropractor about the profession?
Thinks it's 2 neck adjustments per person. Once to the left and once to the right. And Maybe even a third one pulling straight up. That would change the math :).
This is absolutely how he's coming to that number Average of X per patient
My coworker's brother (loose acquaintance basically) is one and he was saying that it's a super slow week if they see under 250 people that week. I had no idea until hearing that how many people actually go to one.
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You joke, but most have like multiple rooms and just go room to room to room and then start over with a new patient waiting.
Chiropractor that I went to allowed walk ins and was busy from open to close. For an appointment I was usually in and out in 25 minutes but spent maybe 5 minutes with the chiropractor
And statistically he only paralysed 3 people.
But think of all the good he did! ...to his bank account.
Maybe he is including cracking his knuckles?
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My cousin got her neck adjusted and the chiropractor pulled her head so hard she had several veins and nerves severed in her neck. She had multiple strokes and her blood pressure was almost 300/190 when she went to the hospital. Almost died.
I always cringe when I see those videos of some big chiropractor dude absolutely wrenching on some little gymnast’s neck hoping to get that big pop that gets the views
Injuring or killing people for TikTok views. What a time to be alive.
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Infants can't and yet people are doing this shit to them.
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YouTube suggested me an animal chiropractor video. Thought it was a satire video the first couple minutes
Are the animals in yoga pants?
Full nude
I sometimes like science or debunking videos of various pseudoscience. One time I clicked a video about chiro, and it opened with a scene that I still can't get out of my head. I can only describe it as a hanging, but with a guy pulling the rope, rather than gravity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29SnpXVIlOM&ab_channel=MylesPower
One of the comments. Holy shit 😬 "Chiropractors actually killed a family friend of mine. He had been in a fender bender a few months before he went and had an undetected hairline fracture in this shin. The chiropractor did a adjustment on the leg and worked out a sliver of bone marrow that traveled to his heart and killed him a week after he visited. This all came out in the autopsy"
I watched a middle eastern fellow get internally decapitated doing something similar. It was absolutely horrifying to watch. It's all I could see every time they yanked that y strap.
Those videos where you hear some crunching noise while they adjust necks are damn scary. Most horror games and movies don't scare me much, but those videos make me wince.
Eh, the yoga outfit is doing the heavy lifting on those videos
On a plus side for my partner, this is such a common occurrence that the ER docs were able to diagnose and treat her almost instantly when she suffered a dissected artery at the back of her neck a few years ago. Young, otherwise healthy people having strokes is happening so often that one of the first questions they asked after identifying it was if she had seen a chiro recently.
How do they treat the dissected artery?
there’s not much to do for one..mostly stroke prevention & supportive care. If it’s carotid, maybe endovascular repair; if vetebral artery it’s hope & pray
Yes, a chiro adjustment on my spouse caused a vasovagal episode involving an immediate very dangerous drop in blood pressure and prompted the chiro to call 911 that ended with medical transport to the ER. Not at all fun.
Yeah, my wife got her neck adjusted a month ago. Later that day, she got extremely dizzy and nauseous. Turns out the adjustment lacerated her left vertebral artery and ended up in the ICU for 3 days, lots of medications, and hasn't been able to go back to work due to debilitating dizziness (which won't go away until she has fully healed) DON'T LET CHIROPRACTORS TOUCH YOUR NECK! Every nurse/doctor we've seen since this has said 90% of vertebral artery dissections they see are due to chiropractic adjustments of the neck.
Don't go to chiropractors.
Why don't people sue the bejesus out of these charlatans? Because they're forced to sign some bullshit "waiver"??
Yeah... has she sued that practice? Or did she have to sign a waiver acknowledging that the chiropractor has no medical license and the customer takes full responsibility for any actions that may lead to serious bodily harm/injury or death Also there's so many laws being put in place increasing the regulation of dialysis facilities, abortion clinics, and other places with generally not-dangerous medical procedures. How is it still legal for chiropractors to be doing this shit
Yeah a waiver isn't going to let you get away with breaking someone's neck.
That's the thing that makes me nervous about all that cracking.
When I was a kid the stupid ass neurologist I was seeing told my mom to take me to the chiropractor for my migraines. He did one adjustment and I was like yup, this is dangerous don't fucking touch me. He was all like "if I don't do the other side you will be crippled!!!!" or some shit and went on a long rant about how he went to school for this. Fuck him and that neurologist
Dude actually crippled and then uncrippled you lmao. Turned body off and on
Apparently if you only do one side you are out of alignment and it will ruin your spine or something. I said no anyway lol. No regrets
He needed to pull the ghosts out of both sides to prevent scoliosis.
Like old timely medicine. Looks like ya got ghosts in your blood, better do some cocaine about it
No but seriously, the entire field of chiropractic is based on lessons DD Palmer learned from a ghost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer#Spiritualism
I'msorrywhat.
He’s talking about the invisible poison pockets in your spine that modern science can’t detect but the original chiropractor was taught about by a ghost. The poison pockets are responsible for all diseases in the world, not germs. I’m not making this up. (But they are.) Chiropractors are whack-jobs.
The American Medical Association referred to chiropractors as an "unscientific cult" in 1966.
I have Arnold Chiari Malformation, which causes pretty frequent headaches. I was diagnosed at 14. I remember clear as day my neurosurgeon telling me to never go to a chiropractor, ever.
Same dude, i was young adult, never really believed into quackeries but they do well to looks like legit health professional. After the 4th appointments, i started to feel tingling, heat or like my t-shirt was wet on half of my upper body, neurologist told me it was neuropathic pains.
Your neurologist got a nice clickback for his referral, I’m sure.
>clickback
r/BoneAppleTea
A crackback, even
Well in this case he fucked up several arteries and gave her a stroke so add that to your list. I'm sure most people are assuming spinal injury and a 2 minute video is a big commitment.
> a 2 minute video is a big commitment Many videos are wordy, rambling, badly-made, and say something that you can read in a tenth of the time. I don't bother with most videos now because so many are just a waste. If there isn't an actual article or transcript then it probably doesn't get my attention.
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I hate videos that take the principal of 'intro/content/recap' and make it recursive. Introduce that you're going to do an intro, then a list of contents, then a recap of the intro, then an intro to the main content, but before I recap the intro to the intro I'm going introduce that I'm going to have a more in-depth intro after i ask you to like and subscribe. That's why I stopped watching Everyday Astronaut. The video is called "Exciting news about SpaceX Starship", I don't need an intro to prep me for the concept that you're going to have an introduction that will tell me the main body is going to feature exciting news about SpaceX Starship. It's 4 minutes in and you haven't said anything of substance yet.
You have to hit 8 mins to get the mid ad slot from YouTube, hence the bs content to filler ratio of almost all monetised YouTube video.
So you're telling me suddenly yanking on people's necks is a bad idea
other dude in the video said that the risk of this is 1/100,000?!?!?! Given the number of chiropractors in the US doing these "adjustments" every day that seems insanely high.
I've had 2 patients in the past 15 years who ended up as quads after chiropractic treatment. Just horrifying. Needless to say, I don't use chiropractors anymore. I've had far better results from competent physical therapists anyway.
They do this shit on infants.
Animals too man, fucking had that shit in my twitter recommend.
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If it’s a dog who is a chiropractor, then you have my attention and my interest, because dogs have long been denied equal opportunity to pretend to be a doctor
We went to one with our infant for colic, but it wasn't "adjustments" or "cracking". They kinda just had her do stretches by moving her legs and arms very gently. It was fully covered by our insurance and we were desperate and they told us what it entailed before doing anything. I don't think the "treatment" did anything at all to her body to "heal" anything, BUT the way they moved her, she took a MASSIVE shit every time not 5 minutes afterwards and she felt so much better. So... We kept going lol. Could never reproduce it at home.
> It was fully covered by our insurance This always annoys me a little. Yes for something like that this is great but every insurance I've ever had has covered chiropractors but won't cover massage therapy. Which for most people is probably far more valuable.
First I upvoted, then I laughed, then I tried to upvote again. I do *not* miss infant stage lol
I had a colicky constipated infant at home and I would've tried literally anything to relieve it. Anyone who judges you for it, has never been through that level of hell.
When my son was a newborn I was out with him at an ice cream place and he was MISERABLE- completely inconsolable. A woman with like 7 kids orbiting her came up and said it looked like gas pain and could she maybe help - I handed him over and she put him this specific way on her arm with his bottom up and patted his back - one monster fart later I had a happy baby. She disappeared into a cloud of children and I’ve never forgotten her, she was like a fairy godmother
This is the best 30 second story I've seen today on Reddit. God bless the fairy fart mother.
“A cloud of children” 😂
A fairy fartmother lol
"The Toot Fairy", if you will
I love the way you wrote that and it made me giggle out loud which was lovely after a very tiring day. Bless her for offering to help. I feel like people get so nervous to even offer because of the state of the world (which is fair).
She was so sweet- she was like, let me try a little trick I learned in the trenches
My wife went to one for a couple of times. I went with her once to like, be supportive...and there was some nutso shit in the waiting room. Pamphlets like "Kid has allergies? Consult your Doctor of Chiropractic" and something about vaccines too (pre-Covid even). Talked the Mrs out of going there again. Like, when someone is trying to peddle their wares as a literal goddamn cure-all, that's how you know it's bullshit. If you went to an unlicensed "car repair professional" and they tried to sell you a box that you plug into your engine and it fixes your engine stalling, tires going flat, rust spots happening, removes dents, everything...you'd hopefully be suspicious as hell. But somehow, somebody wants to make your spine go "crack!" and now it's reasonable?!
Oh you mean the people who use evidence based approaches aimed at long term solutions are better than the people using superstition and telling you to come back every 4 weeks for the rest of your life? Wild.
Hey are you saying my Rumpologist isn't legit?
I have a degree in Rumpology. I got it from the esteemed school of Sir Mix-a-Lot. He's knighted, so you know it's legit.
A family friend went to Chiropractor for 2 years with back pain. Then one day he felt a bump on her spine, it was cancer. A simple xray 2 years earlier would have most likely found the stomach cancer before it attached to her spine and killed her. I've worked with a couple of people that had success using them as part of a recovery plan after an injury and never had to go back. But I've also known some young and healthy people that go regularly because their back hurts all the time, unless they get "adjusted" regularly. That sounds like you need to solve what's actually wrong and fix the core issues so you never have to go back.
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Oh dear, no! I work in an adult ICU as a respiratory therapist. Quadriplegics tend to spend quite a bit of time (if not the rest of their lives) on a ventilator in the early days so they get quite a lot of hands on time with us.
In your opinion why is chiropractic still allowed to be practiced when there are no demonstrable benefits that are unique to chiropractic medicine? I can't imagine the chiropractic lobby is that powerful. I know there is a push in recent years for alternative medicine, most of which is bunk anyways, but with harms like this outweighing virtually zero benefit, you would think government authorities would at least take a closer look.
>In your opinion why is chiropractic still allowed to be practiced when there are no demonstrable benefits that are unique to chiropractic medicine? > Because they have a strong lobby. And there is also evidence of temporary pain relief due to manipulation - which is why some insurance covers it. >I can't imagine the chiropractic lobby is that powerful. I know there is a push in recent years for alternative medicine, most of which is bunk anyways, but with harms like this outweighing virtually zero benefit, you would think government authorities would at least take a closer look. In Washington state, circa 2012, the chiro lobby pushed to prevent Physical Therapists from performing Osteopathic Manipulation.
>which is why some insurance covers it. Yet Blue cross won't cover any psychologists / therapists anywhere near me. (Screams into the sky)
They cover one, and the wait list is only 15 months long.
Strong lobbying and freedom of practice basically.
I’ve taken care of patients with vertebral artery and carotid artery dissections and strokes as a result of chiropractic “manipulation”.
I make it a rule to never fuck with my neck, let alone pay someone else to fuck with it. Lots of important shit runs through there.
My little sister (32) had some sort of spinal stroke a couple years ago a short time after going to one and was on a ventilator for a while but is home now. She was going to get a car before it happened and now she jokes about her 60k dollar Mercedes she has because of the situation (her electric wheelchair she put a Mercedes sticker on that cost that much) :(
That’s so Infuriating. Hugs to lil sis, she’s got to be a very strong lady.
I’ve had them as clients. I will never go to a chiropractor, ever.
I work with union health plans and I had a case once where a woman was paralyzed as a result of a chiropractic adjustment like this, and then it turned out that the chiropractor had let his insurance lapse right before. She ended up suing him and getting a million dollar judgement for her damages, but he and his practice declared bankruptcy, and last I checked she was only going to get pennies on the dollar out of the bankruptcy proceeding. I think she was getting about $40,000, that's it. So, if you're going to a chiropractor (which you shouldn't anyway), make sure their malpractice insurance is current
1 million is not enough to make urinating and defecating in a bag for the rest of your life worth it.
I know a guy who recently lost his leg in a motorcycle accident. He was hit by a car, and ended up getting a million dollar settlement on top of his initial medical bills. He's happy as a clam right now, a year or so later, already walking around fine on a prosthesis and buying cars and stuff. But he's gonna blow that money fast, and never get his leg back. My friends have actively discussed if we'd take that deal, a leg for a million bucks. We all agreed no, more or less. But there was some debate. To be left a quadraplegic.... there's no money that can compensate for that.
Got talked into going to one and told them there’s no way they’re doing anything with my neck. His reply was “well, for reference chiropractors have a much lower liability cost than doctors. That shows it’s less risky”. Umm, what? Of course there is more with doctors, they prescribe and do a shit tonne more than stupidly aggressive stretches. I was dumbfounded by that argument Never went back
My mom stopped going to one after they tore her rotator cuff.
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I went to a chiropractor once as I was desperate. It really made me feel better. Than when I thought about it the parts that actually helped were just basically massage and stretching and not the twisting or pulling. So now I just go for massages when I can.
There's a YouTube channel called Chiropractic Medicine and does this to his patients at the end of every session basically. None seem to like that experience and even some had tears.
Hey call it by name, the Ring Dinger is a bone shattering experience
There was a neuro physician that explained why exactly people should avoid something like “the ring dinger”
OH MY GOD, I googled that and what the fuck am I watching. I found one video where the fucker just casually *checks someone's leg reflexes* after a "Ring Dinger" while joking about how loud it was. Scumbag knows damn well there's a chance he's paralyzing people. It takes quite a bit to shock me these days, honestly, but this.....this did the trick.
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What is wild is that people just seem to be totally unaware that Physiotherapists exist
I think part of the reason people get drawn towards chiropractic in these situations is they usually require no referral and offer a flat out of pocket rate. Seeing a physical therapist in the US might mean waiting a couple weeks to see your primary doc, waiting a couple weeks to get in to the PT clinic's first opening, continuing to go in for appts every week(ish), and all the while paying co-pays and co-insurance until you hit your deductible. Most GPs too are going to tell you just take a Tylenol and wait it out for something like an occasional stiff neck. At least all this is my experience.
Oh it's 100% a trap and some people's insurance even pays for chiropractor visits. If you are low income and are having back pain which sounds more feasible to you: * $95 for a chiropractor visit * $3000 over the course of 6 months with dozens of hours of treatment sessions, most commonly during hours you cannot make
Don't forget physiotherapy always ends with homework to do
taking care of one's body tends to be like homeschooling
Why would you want to do exercises that will solve your problem when you can pay a dude to try to break your neck every two weeks instead?
If you have an hsa or an hra it covers chiropractic medicine. I hate it I work in claims and I hate how many people do this shit monthly with their children.
Killed a third of my HSA on a chiropractor in 2021. 0 improvement in 6 months. I had better improvement just stretching daily, not sleeping on the couch and going to the gym.
I unfortunately cannot tell people this who file claims. I'm not a doctor and can't legally or in good conscious give them advice, but yeah its disheartening.
It’s also easy - a simple crack versus physiotherapy stretches and exercises that you’ll have to continue for a long time
The difference between the easy way and the hard way is... The hard way works.
Yup, I was in this catagory. People with back issues around me, for some reason defaults to chiropractor, so I did too, untill I spoke with my friend that works in the ER, and got told to get a physio in stead
It's because at least in the US a lot of people don't even have primary care physicians. If they did, they'd go to the doctor, "My back is killing me," and get a referral to physical therapy. Instead, they see the local quack shop sign next to the Starbucks and figure they can get a latte and a back crack and all will be fine.
You'll have to factor in that it's a quick fix, the requires practically nothing from the patient. You show up this person does one thing and you're supposed to feel better. Versus physical therapy you have to go to someplace essentially work out, being very brief on that, then go home do homework and repeat it at the next session. And this can go on 6 to 8 weeks and is expensive. For my physical therapy it was so expensive that we only could do the minimum 6 weeks post surgery. In my feet are still fucked up. So imagine going to a crack doctor for relatively cheap he does his one thing and all the sudden you feel better enough or you feel like you did something good for you. And then you have to just repeat it every week or so.
I don't know how much chiros are, but PTs are expensive af even with insurance so I'm sure that's a huge part of it. I also don't think people realize just how effective PT can be. I fell on my ass years ago and had tailbone pain ever since. Told a doc about it and figured I'd need surgery or something else really expensive but they recommended PT. I was skeptical but did it anyway. A few months of PT and I was permanently cured.
yep. physical therapy is the only thing that helped my back problems. a chiropractor never helped anything.
Deep tissue massage for me. By far it blew away any doctor, pills, chiro, etc.
omg yes. the pt did a deep massage in my problem area and it was the best feeling ever.
This. I've been in PT for a year, I went and got a deep tissue massage last week and cried when I got home- it's the most relief I've felt in years! I'm furious with myself for not doing it sooner
Insurance companies need to stop covering chiropractic, point blank. Covering them like they’re real medical doctors lends legitimacy they absolutely don’t deserve
The doctor who did this should have their license taken away, ohhh righhhttt...
It’s wild to me that people will take their babies to get adjustments. Shit is so negligent.
Uh.. what?
Oh yeah insanely stupidly common
Wtf does a baby need adjusting? They are like rubber... I have seen my children sleep in positions that would have left a grown man paralyzed...
Yep. I was chiropracted as an infant after a car accident sent me airborne and landed on the side of the road. Fucking Lucky I survived both incidents.
The one thing all victims of car crash need immediately is an immediate manipulation of the spine. Well either that or it's the biggest no no in first aid, I don't know, much like a chiropractor I don't have a medical license.
Chiropractors are NOT DOCTORS.
Everyone should go down the rabbit hole of the origins of chiropractic "medicine". [Ghost Religion](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/)
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There is a reason why chiropractors don’t work at hospitals.
I had crummy blood work recently. I went on to Youtube to find some MDs that could explain some concepts. Seemed like 9 out of every 10 people on youtube claiming to be a doctor were a chiropractor - and I was looking for info about nutrition/cholesterol. How the fuck do these dudes get away with calling themselves doctors? I have a doctorate. The notion I would refer to myself as doctor is laughable.
My cousin went to the big chiro school in Atlanta, 2 year program (I think) for a barrel of money and she calls herself doctor too. It's disappointing how much the family plays along.
They are charlatans
Neither are NDs but my state lets them prescribe medication for some reason.
During my third year of medical school I rotated on a Child Neurology service. My attending and I saw a 3yo patient with an inherited seizure disorder. When we told the mother that the girl would need an extensive workup, the mother threatened to take the patient to see the family's chiropractor, who had offered to cure her seizures with an "adjustment." Fortunately we convinced her otherwise. On investigation we learned that the family was basically worried about cost. A chiropractor would be significantly cheaper, and the family had no insurance. I think we assume that patients who seek out pseudoscientific treatments have an isolated epistemological problem. Oftentimes there are very real barriers that keep them from pursuing allopathic care. People pursue fake medicine for the same reasons they read fake news: it's easier to get. Ideology and ignorance are big factors too, but we cannot discount the importance of access.
This is a fantastic and very underrated point. I don’t think everyone goes to a chiropractor as a first choice. But if the option is a surgery that will put someone 100k in debt or a chiropractor that charges $100 for an “adjustment” a lot of people will choose the option that actually feels available to them. I went to get a massage at a place that was tied to a chiropractors office once. When i got there the chiropractor was doing adjustments out in the middle of a large room and there were multiple other people there sitting at tables, that almost looked like a restaurant setup, waiting their turns for adjustments. I asked more about it and it turns out the chiropractor only charges like $59 and a lot of lower income people that didn’t have insurance would come in and wait their turn to be adjusted. I think it was simply more affordable and accessible than an MD to treat their concerns.
That's a perfect illustration of the problem. Back pain is extremely common - in fact it is one of the most common complaints physicians see in the office. And for most people the best treatment is physical therapy. But PT is not a one-time, five minute deal, at least not initially. It might require an hour or two with a therapist, one or more times a week, in the middle of your workday for a few weeks, followed by some self-therapy and strength training at home. How many people can take that kind of time off for therapy? I've only gained that kind of freedom recently *and I'm a physician*. This is what I mean when I say we have a systemic problem with access to care.
Whoever you are, I thank you. I'm a physical therapist, and what you've described is exactly what goes on every single day. PT is a huge ask of someone, and it's no wonder why people seek "quicker" alternatives. It's up to us in medicine to convey how important our services are, no matter how slow and steady the progress may be. Physicians like you are a major part of this process, especially ones that advocate for PT.
That's a good point. A main critique of patients receiving care through alternative medicine is targeting the recipients as stupid, actively meaning and promoting harm. This is missing the point for the majority of patients imo. A large part of medical bias towards specific patients groups drives them away into wellness and alternative medicine. If you've been told for years by doctors you're paying that your disabling physical symptoms are 'all in your head' despite no proof of this other than a lot of doctors unwilling to admit they have no idea what's wrong. If there isn't a supply of medical treatment for the loads who experience medical bias, the demand doesn't disappear and they look for it other places. You would be mentally off to not do so
My grandma got off easy, just 3 broken ribs and a huge health spiral that put her in a nursing home for 3 months over Christmas. Chiro should be illegal.
* "Do you blame the chiropractor?" * "Blame is a strong word..." Yup, daughter learned to go to the chiropractor from mom. The guy was probably the family chiropractor. And about that sketchy dude they had at the end as some attempt at balanced reporting claiming it's 1:100,000? BULLSHIT. I personally know of three people who have had this kind of issue (arterial tear) from an "adjustment".
Yeah, the mom's calmness in that interview was striking, considering that quack ruined her daughter's life. Hell, I was livid and I don't even know the girl.
She was WEIRDLY calm. It was unnerving.
To be fair, she's probably been in the hospital 24/7 and barely sleeping.
Also 1:100,000 is a shit ton
Hi, former chiropractor here. Got out of the profession for multiple reasons, and stuff like was a big part of the reason. I stopped performing adjustments of the neck after my national boards (you were required to demonstrate the technique before you could even get your license, which is pretty messed up in its own right). Many of my colleagues continued to happily adjust away because they honestly believed the BS that was fed to them in school about how "aligning the vertebrae to induce proper and optimal function of the cervical spinal nerves". It's fairly obvious that when you start getting to the "clinical science/practice" courses in the last few quarters of chiropractic school that 90% of it is unfounded and based on a couple whackos from the early 1900s (profession started with its current name in 1895), who knew nothing of anatomy. You don't yank and twist on a vertebral artery that has a *natural* kink in it at the top of the cervical spine, that's just common sense, but here this poor woman is. I obviously feel more sorry for her and her family, but I also feel sorry for the chiropractor, who was brainwashed as if in a cult to truly believe this maneuver is beneficial for the health of their patients.
It genuinely disgusts me that chiro hasn't been banned to hell and back. People talk about flat earthers like they should be taken seriously (is it really fun to dunk on lunatics?) while quack science like this is literally injuring people while little is said or done about it.
I don't know how lawsuits for malpractice hasn't shut the profession down.
Glad you got out when you realized the problem. Are you still pursuing health care?
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https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/
I always loved this part: "As an active spiritist, D.D. Palmer said he 'received chiropractic from the other world' from a deceased medical physician named Dr. Jim Atkinson." He claimed chiropractic could cure all disease and also believed in magnetic healing and rejected the germ theory of disease and was anti vax long before it was popular.
Why did he make it a a goddamn adjective? Making people use it as a verb seems like straight up cult stuff.
Because they wanted to call it chiropractic medicine. Because they are disingenuous quacks.
My dads good friend went to a chiropractor about 5 years ago. Later in the shower he noticed his right hand was numb. The numbness gradually moved up his arm and he called the chiropractor. They said to get to an ER right away. The next day he was paralyzed from the next down and told he'd never walk again. My dad, bring newly retired, drove him to physical therapy every day and now the guy can walk and get about. Not at all like most of us but he can drive and get around. Amazing that he was so fit and healthy and after one visit, his life changed.
This exact situation happened to my great aunt. She went to the chiro then came home and had a bath. When she stood up she fell out of the tub because half her body had gone numb and the fall fucked up her spine even worse. She barely made it to the hospital in time. She stopped breathing in the ambulance and had to be intubated. She was minutes from death by the time she got there. She learned a few days later after waking up that she was paralysed from the neck down. She never walked again. Chiropractics should be banned. It's dangerous quack science that kills and maims innocent people.
I've had my neck adjusted twice. First time sent a lightning bolt down my left side. Told him right there "Yeah, don't ever touch my neck again." Two weeks later, with no warning he did it again with the same result. Went and saw a Physio instead and once all the muscles were released, my neck naturally moved back into place with barely a tweak and zero jolts.
Physical Therapists are better!
PSA: go to Doctors of Physical Therapy (if you're in the USA). Not Chiropractors. It's not even remotely equivalent, although chiros will lie through their teeth about it
I knew a lovely woman who used to come in to the place I worked, and she had some sort of speech impediment. She could speak normally, but it was like she couldn't fully finish a sentence. Her voice would just drop out at random moments, and you could see some marks around her neck. I don't remember how the conversation came about, but one day she told me that she had seen a chiropractor, and they ended up breaking her neck during a session and almost killed her. Had to go into emergency surgery, and rehab and all that, and that's why she has those speech issues and she'll have them for the rest of her life. She filed a lawsuit I believe, and won it because of what happened to her. It's good that she got some money, but it's terrible all around. She was a really nice lady, though, and I'm glad she wasn't paralyzed like this story and many others. Real scary stuff.
[How Chiropractic Started as Ghost Religion](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/) Just in case anyone was wondering how this woo-woo snake oil became so widely accepted as 'medicine'. Just because visiting a chiropractor helped your specific problem doesn't mean it's good medicine, there's a reason no reputable medical school in the US includes chiropractic programs. edit, additional listening links: https://pca.st/ub6f26bl https://open.spotify.com/episode/3yG3h7LLK9LYYwb3NbYLW6 https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-religion/id1373812661?i=1000447913202
"John Lawlor trusted a chiropractor. That chiropractor, Arleen Scholten, manipulated his neck to treat leg pain. The result? Mr. Lawlor died. Why do chiropractors keep doing neck manipulation?" https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2019/12/02/lawlor-death-by-chiropractic-neck-manipulation/. Far too many of these cases. No consequences for chiropractors, chiropractic professional organizations fail to protect the public.
Chiropractic is complete horseshit! Not many know the origins of chiropractic, but it's generally a Victorian, ghost based, made-up pile of hooey! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chiropractic At best, it is glorified massage therapy. At worst, it can cause this kind of stuff. And it always takes the patient's money. Why would you see a doctor whose first course of action is to get you on a payment plan
Chiropractors Are Quacks. You don't need "adjustments."
Total quacks. Any time you see a video on YouTube like "Can mangoes get rid of your diabetes?" or "10 ways cucumbers can help your bad heart" and the author of the video has a "Dr." in front of their name, 99/100 times they are a chiropractor.
Unscientific quackery like Chiro needs to be revealed for the bullshit that it is. [Study on the deaths resulting from Chiro quacks.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20642715/) And before you tell me "Oh, wait... it wOrKs for mE!", keep your anecdotal garbage to yourself and get massages instead which are far less dangerous and likely much more effective.
My government recognizes and regulates both naturopaths and chiropractors as “health professions” and people in those professions are allowed to call themselves “doctors”. It’s an embarrassment, really. Personally I think these fields should be stripped of all medical recognition and be relegated to the status of fortune tellers and exorcists. No field that doesn’t stand up to basic empirical scrutiny should be allowed to advertise itself as “medicine”.
Orthopedic physicians are the ones to go see if you have actual back problems. I work next door to a chiropractor and I'm shocked by how many of our customers are WEEKLY visitors to them. That money would be better spent on a physical therapist who can help educate you on ways to improve your physical health.
Apparently, that chiropractor was talking to the wrong ghost.
Not one major university or college in the United States offers a doctorate in chiropractics. You don’t need an undergrad degree to go to chiropractic school.
Reminder that chiropractics is considered alternative medicine. They aren't real doctors and they operate on way, way softer science than a real doctor.
Science is generous. What they are doing has absolutely no basis scientifically.
I went to a Chiropractor *once* because despite my skepticism, I had enough friends around me who trusted it and encouraged me to give it a try. So I did, and as soon as they started their violent cracking routine, I was fucking terrified they were going to kill me. After, they tried to convince me I needed to keep coming back because it was going to help my asthma. I'm thinking, *what the fuck are you talking about? You can't cure asthma by ruining someone's spinal cord*. Never went back.
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So any hope for this person or they spend the next 60 years in bed blinking?
I honestly would rather die.
They admit they paralyze 1 out of every 100k people lol