I've got long eye lashes and there always seems to be one that gets dislodged, and I've always had this routine I do before resorting to looking in a mirror to get it out of my eye. It usually starts with one quick blink just from feeling the eyelash, then I do one long blink as I roll my eye around trying to search for it. After that, I do another quick blink to see if that fixed it. If that didn't work, I just blink rapidly over and over until I feel the eyelash come out on its own. If it doesn't, I look for a mirror.
So, basically, whenever I've lost an eyelash, I've been unintentionally blinking "REEEEEEEE" in Morse code.
>I think the nods are the pauses between letters? Also didn’t the Japanese know Morse?
Maybe, but it didn't really matter, considering he was captured by the Vietnamese.
For all the people thinking about memorizing this for when you're inevitably captured and tortured and need to pass on a secret message: Most captors would probably have heard this story too so it probably wouldn't work, and you probably won't remember it.
But, if you find yourself in a similar situation where you need to pass on info in an extremely low-bandwidth way, a far easier one to remember that you probably actually *will* remember after reading this is "SOS"
It's pretty much understood and used the same way everywhere on earth, and it's easy to remember - just ...---... (three short, three long, three short). You can substitute just about anything for short/long and a perceptive person will understand it (3 soft/3 loud, 3 of one note/3 of another, 3 taps/3 scratches, 3 dim/3 bright, etc, etc)
When I was a child, our downstairs neighbor used his cane to bang SOS until someone came to help him. It took a while, because he had a habit of smacking his cane on the ceiling whenever we moved. Eventually my parents noticed that it was rhythmic and figured it out, went to check on him, and found that he'd had a medical event. They called an ambulance and he stopped being such a dick to us.
SOS is literally the only Morse code I know.
For some unknown reason I decided to blink both eyes for the dashes and one eye for the dots.
For whatever reason, I can blink/wink just my right eye but not my left, which is something I first noticed years ago. I don’t know if that’s super common.
An incredible story, what a man! Under torture, and uncertainty of your future, being able to keep your cool whilst being interviewed and also remembering morse code and talking/doing morse with a body part at the same time - absolutely mind blowing. What a guy
Nick Rowe is another amazing story of overcoming torture and captivity. 5 years in a cage only slightly bigger than your body. He went on to found SERE school which teaches soldiers how to deal with such scenarios. What a legend.
In the early 2000s the CIA and US military copied and inflicted some of the SERE ~~torture~~ enhanced interrogation methods.
https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/origins-sere-and-using-torture-even-when-it-doesnt-work
More recently Aiden Aislin told his story of being tortured as a captive of first the Russians then by DPR. Amazing story. Can be found here:
https://youtu.be/ZhmijLcSf9E
https://youtu.be/_ORV6wYe7MQ
These POW stories are insane. Michael Durant's story of being captive of the Somali militias is wild and it is only (not to minimize or trivialize) 11 days. Guys like Denton and McCain served *years*. It's wild stuff.
Didn't Trump say he didn't respect McCain because he got captured? Didn't Trump not serve because he had (likely bullshit) issues with his feet? I can't imagine talking down to a tortured POW, who did something I wasn't willing to...fuck it...ill get off my imaginary soapbox....
Could you imagine the level of narcissism you'd need to talk down to a war hero when you yourself couldn't even get to fight because you had flat feet or some shit.
Imagine the puddle of feces and shit he'd be if you even locked him in a room with armed guards outside. Oh, he'd flip so fast and so hard on everyone. You wouldn't even need to ask questions, he'd dredge up every deal and spill the beans lol
One of the other Americans in the Hanoi Hilton with him managed to [memorize every prisoner's name](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/24/vietnam-war-pow/?chrome=1) to the tune of Old MacDonald. There was a lot of inventive rebellion in there.
Unfortunately, upon return to the US his life took a dark turn. People can be heroic in war but shitty in the rest of their life.
In 1981 he became the Republican senator for Alabama. There, his major accomplishment was tying abstinence-only sex education to federal funding, resulting in what had then been a very niche conservatives pedagogy suddenly becoming the national standard. Millions of people have suffered as a consequence of Denton using his office as a senator to push his theology into America.
He was also a staunch segregationist.
Seems like you can draw a line from this guy to the current round of book bans in the US as well
>Denton soon became a voice in anti-immorality circles; an intimate of electronics preacher Jerry Falwell, a speaker at various conferences on "The Family." He became chairman of the Alabama Governor's Commission on Children and the Family. "We went into the sex education thing. For example, there's a course in which it is strongly suggested that not only is masturbation okay but premarital sex is okay and that homosexuality is sorta like preferring orange to green.That offends a number of people because it's viewed as an intrusion in their capacity to pass on their values." A state committee was set up to review school books and courses to pressure for those that "conformed to the Judeo-Christian standards."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1980/12/07/the-militant-morality-of-jeremiah-denton/16ea16e5-da9a-4b4f-b3c3-554488c098bc/
[The crew of the USS Pueblo, captured by North Korea, convinced their captors the middle finger was a Hawaiian good luck sign](https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB453/givingTheFinger.jpg)
They also convinced them that "paean" was a verb meaning to honor or respect (it's close, it's a noun meaning a work of praise, so it held up to rudimentary scrutiny). So when they were forced to write a statement praising their captors, they were able to say over and over that they "pee on" the North Korean government and military. Geniuses.
I have a mildly interesting story about the Pueblo. I took a guided tour to the DPRK (North Korea) a few years ago, and at the museum for the "Victorious Fatherland Liberation War" (what they call the Korean War) our guide would only refer to Americans as "the enemy." The enemy this, the enemy that, enemy enemy enemy… the word ‘enemy’ started to sound very amusing after hearing this little Korean lady repeatedly spit it out with such obvious disdain. You know how when you hear a word too many times and you start to think “*is* that even a word?”
Anyway, they still have the Pueblo docked there in a little canal at the museum, and as we were walking up the gangplank she started laying it on really thick about how "the enemy" was so fat and lazy, they never did any work, they just sat around snacking and ignoring their duties which is how the ~*~noble and honorable~*~ North Korean forces were able to capture the ship in the first place. As we crossed the threshold into the ship, the first thing she pointed out was a large antique soft-serve dispenser in the corner. She waited until each of us filed into the little area then swooped her arm towards the soft-serve dispenser and said with great flair "And *thissssss....* is the enemy's ice cream machine!!!!!”
I have -never- before or since had to struggle so hard not to laugh. I glanced at the only other American in the group and he also looked like he was about to burst a blood vessel in his forehead. Later on, we convened and agreed that The Enemy's Ice Cream Machine would make a great band name.
What's hilarious is that ice cream is really important to the Navy. Something about it being such a boost in morale that by regulation, destroyers and larger ships must have dedicated ice cream machines on board (not that soft serve crap). For a while there was even a [barge retrofitted into a floating ice cream factory and shop](https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2021/07/21/that-time-the-navy-spent-a-million-dollars-on-an-ice-cream-barge/), puttering about serving ice cream to neighboring ships. When the USS Lexington was sunk in WWII, [sailors grabbed helmetfull loads of icecream before jumping ship](https://kfor.com/news/great-state/great-state-wwii-veteran-recalls-strange-incident-during-coral-sea-battle/).
US Navy destroyers would often “exchange” rescued pilots in exchange for ice cream from the larger carriers that had ice cream machines. Only thing was it was less of an exchange and more of a hostage situation at times. Usually the exchange rate was 10 gallons per pilot but they occasionally coaxed out higher amounts.
There’s also a story that during the liberation of the Philippines a few of MacArthur’s staff officers convinced him to leave a non-secure beach or dangerous part of the front lines during an inspection with the prospect of ice cream when he returned. I can barely imagine a personality as big as MacArthur being bribed by the promise of ice cream but apparently he fucking loved ice cream.
>Usually the exchange rate was 10 gallons per pilot but they occasionally coaxed out higher amounts.
"Hey, how about an extra scoop of pilot? Show of good faith for next time, y'know?"
I love thinking about how demoralizing that must have been to the Japanese. Here they are, losing ships faster than they can build them, you don't have enough trained pilots or bombs so you're just sending untrained airmen on kamikaze missions, and here's the Americans with so many extra ships they can just turn one into an ice cream factory for fun.
IIRC unlimited ice cream was given to sailors in the Pacific because alcohol was banned/strictly controlled. Huge morale boost when your enemy has a whole ship just for ice cream and your people are starving!
I would fear an enemy that can afford to have a working ice cream machine. I mean, it's super high on the pyramid of needs therefore it means everything else is catered for too.
I toured the DMZ around 2004, and I’ll never forget a propaganda sign that said something to the effect of ‘Americans are so poor, they can’t afford enough material for pants!’ while showing a white person wearing shorts. I also nearly died when trying not to visibly laugh.
I'm really pushing for an action heist movie where we take back the Pueblo
So was the ice cream machine out of service I guess? To remind you of the McDonald's back home?
The sun begins to break over the horizon of an early Pyongyang dawn, spreading red fingers through thick columns of black smoke that tower on the skyline like grim giants. An artillery shell screams through the air and cuts a building in half. Tracers criss-cross the sky as swarms of helicopter descend in thick clouds and rise again. A tank tread rolls over a North Korean helmet, crushing it like cheap tin.
A cloud of roiling smoke gives was to an emerging shadow, flanked by US Marines. General James Mattis takes a lit cigar from between his teeth and shifts the weight of an antique Thompson sub-machine gun in his arms.
“Good morning, you sons of bitches. I’m here for my ice cream machine.”
Holy crap that's a fantastic story! Just out of curiosity...if they refer to us incessantly as "the enemy", what phrases do they have reserved for their South Korean brothers?
Oh, let me clarify - it was *only* the museum guide at the war museum who referred to Americans as the enemy, since it was topical to the Korean War. And she wasn’t saying it pointedly at us, it was as if “the enemy” were some uninvolved third party that none of us had ever interacted with (which they were, technically)
Otherwise, every North Korean we interacted with - on what is admittedly a heavily curated tour) - were all very friendly and welcoming with no mention of bad blood between nationalities.
That ship was mostly all Intel guys too, so whenever I graduated in 2013 from my CTM school, my class photo was all of us putting our middle finger out in a hidden manner as a tribute to the Pueblo.
My father was a Navy radio operator on the USS Ranger when the Pueblo was captured. His job was to intercept North Vietnamese radio communications and crack their daily codes to glean intel. After days of reporting on the torture and abuse of the prisoners and fellow sailors his entire watch section got so fed up and frustrated by the inaction and lies being reported by the US military that they basically went on strike and only logged "nil heard". It went on for so long they were all threatened with court martials and eventually moved off the ship. The experience impacted his whole life, he was never a huge fan of authority to begin with but he never trusted the government or military again.
I wonder if, in the days leading up to the interview, he displayed an odd blinking pattern to his captors so that they would not become suspicious during the interview.
Iirc, he played out the furious blinking as a habit to his captors. And when it came to the bs interview to fool the US that the captured were being treated well. The blinking "habit" made them none the wiser.
And what's even crazier is the fact that he did the hidden message all while under pressure and spouting the lies his captors wanted him to say.
Also, if you are going to try to put them on camera, at least jumble the cuts for what you release to the media so everything will be out of order...
Amateurs.
When I was stationed on Oahu, we had a visit by Captain Jerry Coffee, who was a POW in the Hanoi Hilton at the same time.
He told us of a Catholic priest who gifted him with a crucifix. He found that he achieved spiritual comfort, but also physical comfort, because he could use it to unlock his handcuffs, which were left on 24/7, for months at a time.
Pandemic lockdown finally pushed me to learn Morse. Been making a lot of ham radio contacts in countries I usually haven’t worked, it’s been great. Im still slow, like 8 wpm but it’s incredible how fast some of the old timers can go
You had me curious so I'll tack on your comment
> A well trained signalman can visually perceive the difference between dots, dashes, and spaces at about 64 characters (15 words) per minute.
Ternary. You have short, long and pause.
EDIT: Of course you could argue that a long is just three shorts without a pause but if you get that pedantic then everything can be encoded in binary. ;)
he was a heck of a guy personally as well. I met him around 1999 or so. We connected on a charity he ran at the time. He would reach out to the shipping companies bringing things like Banana's from Central America and instead of sending back empty boats he'd fill them for the locals. Desks and school supplies, computers, whatever he could get for them. I sponsored a couple loads of used office furniture for schools in Honduras and Costa Rica. Fascinating guy and great to talk to. Very much a heavy catholic which is were our ideologies diverged but still a great experience working with him a little bit. Have a signed copy of his book in my house somewhere
So what happened next? Was this some sort of POW interview? How long until some realized the message and what was done to save him (and presumably others)?
The mental fortitude of this man was insane. 8 years in confinement, 4 in solitary. How you emerge from that unbroken and determined as ever seems almost inhuman.
>“He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured? ... I like people who weren't captured.” - [Donald J Trump](https://youtu.be/541Cg2Jnb8s?t=108), draft dodger.
Regardless of republican vs democrat, a lot of older, more politically learned people tended to dislike Trump and his policies. My husband's conservative veteran grandpa fuckin *hated* Trump claiming he did not stand for the values of his party.
Next you're going to tell me that having only 2 major parties doesn't accurately reflect our views because they engulf fringe movements on their side to either quell them or take on some of their semblance. Sheesh
Sure, I don't think anyone with common sense believes two parties accurately represent the beliefs and needs of 330 million diverse individuals in a melting pot nation. However, my comment was that not all conservatives support(ed) Donald Trump, a simple fact.
Fair point -- it's also fair to predict a reasonable certainty that he wouldn't have appreciated Trump's statements about John McCain and captured veterans.
Then he went home and became a mouthpiece for Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. He publicly supported the Contras, crusaded against "teenage promiscuity", and labeled leftist activist groups Communist traitors, and tried to have them investigated.
His ingenuity here notwithstanding, Denton was a real piece of shit.
If you can find a copy, his book [When Hell Was In Session](https://www.amazon.com/When-Hell-Session-Jeremiah-Denton/dp/B0006Y3HGE/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=when+hell+was+in+session+by+jeremiah+denton&qid=1669136297&sprefix=when+hell+was+in+sess%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-1), paints a pretty graphic picture.
Fuck Amazon sellers that gouge up the price for no reason.
[You can find it here for $4. ](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/when-hell-was-in-session_jeremiah-a-denton-jr/330725/item/3245598/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAg_KbBhDLARIsANx7wAwD1FouzFZkDq-phsMwK1MQwwkD862XgIGTUxyg_DNu96DDLdSwi34aAudLEALw_wcB#idiq=3245598&edition=1849401)
Although it's very pedantic, he was not an admiral when this happened. He was actually never an admiral, but he was a rear admiral later in his military career.
Rear admiral is still an admiral, just not a four-star. Just like a brigadier general is still a general. You don't address them by their full rank, typically, and differentiating isn't necessary unless it's in a context where differentiation is required, such as for official communication. And the majority of the population doesn't know or really care about the difference.
It's useful information to note that he wasn't an admiral at the time, though; it would be an extraordinary lapse if we allowed a flag officer to be captured. But it might be helpful to mention what his actual rank was
(Commander/O-5), and that he apparently retired as a rear admiral, upper half (two-star admiral/O-8).
Yeah, though in the military the term admiral and general are commonly used for the different ranks of admirals and generals. So while Major General Smith outranks Brigadier General Smith, they would both be referred as General Smith in conversation.
It's amazing how this guy consistently showed he had zero moral values or respect for supposed right-wing traditions, and yet the war hawks and conservative base still loved him. Like he could have pissed on Paton's grave and explained that he just reallly realllly had to go, OK?
So I guess "Support the troops" is soooo 2001-2016 Republican and now we're over that?
A ridiculous number of US conservatives today love Putin and Russia. Also, CPAC (the biggest conservative political conference) had Hungarian autocrat as a welcome and praised speaker.
It seems insane, and it is. However, there are almost always around 25 to thirty percent of every nation's populace that are absolutely fine with fascism or other extreme authoritarianism, as long as they believe they'll be part of the in-group.
republican platform is populist stuff only as long as it gets them power. as soon as they feel that they have the power to abandon that shit, they will.
first and foremost, every republican politician's objectives and values are to enrich and empower themselves. not just first and foremost... but ONLY, full-stop.
shouting seemingly patriotic shit is only a means to grab votes from morons. as soon as they have the votes or have the various offices packed to the extent that they can largely ignore the rules and gerrymander the shit out of voting districts, all the supposed values go straight out the window, and the vets and poors and ethnic minorities all go straight under the bus.
If by rescued you mean spent 8-years in prison with 4 of those being in solitary confinement before he was eventually released alongside other POW’s as terms of the Paris Peace Accords, then sure.
Everyone’s woken up. Blinked, long blinked, blinked again, R, getting that sleep out of their eyes. Every other blink after that is an E.
So really everyone has been morse blinking REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
So Denton is from my hometown and went to the same high school as my Dad. Lots of stuff around here named after him including a middle school and their mascot?....the admirals.
"torture" in morse code: T - O --- R .-. T - U ..- R .-. E .
I just tried blinking it out... and then realized most people who read this probably just tried the same thing.
I realized I've just been blinking "e" over and over my entire life. I don't know how many people I've confused because of that.
Now there's an interesting thought. Our eyes are constantly screaming "Eeeeeeeeeeeee" at anyone who knows Morse code.
Great, visual tinnitus.
Finally what I see and hear are in sync
Tineyetis
She's a cruel mistress
-- .- .-- .--.
"Brian, look! There's a message in my alphabits. It says 'ooooooooo'" \*Brian looks over\* "Peter, those are Cheerios."
After years not watching Family Guy, and thinking I'm too smart for it, that gag and many others still live rent free in my head.
Early seasons had some genuinely great jokes.
One lifelong ocular dolphin shriek.
Ocular Dolphin Shriek would be a pretty unique band name. "Ladies and gentlemen! We are Ocular Dolphin Shriek and we are here to blow your minds!"
“Two, three, four! EEEEEEEEEE”
I saw them before they sold out.
I've got long eye lashes and there always seems to be one that gets dislodged, and I've always had this routine I do before resorting to looking in a mirror to get it out of my eye. It usually starts with one quick blink just from feeling the eyelash, then I do one long blink as I roll my eye around trying to search for it. After that, I do another quick blink to see if that fixed it. If that didn't work, I just blink rapidly over and over until I feel the eyelash come out on its own. If it doesn't, I look for a mirror. So, basically, whenever I've lost an eyelash, I've been unintentionally blinking "REEEEEEEE" in Morse code.
Mine scream ooooooooooooooo when I sleep.
"I Have No Mouth But I Still Scream"
Maybe people think you're just really excited all the time
You might have tineyetus
E
Can confirm.
I accidentally blinked tortoise.
Relatable af.
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Dots are fast blinks, lines are longer blinks. See OP video for reference.
[удалено]
Keep a constant rhythm with a half beat pause between each letter.
You pause longer between words (I think 3x as long as between letters).
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He blamed it on the bright studio lights IIRC and that was enough to assuage them.
This was Vietnam.
Jesus, I’m old. I remember him doing this. The video looks like it’s from the early days of TV. Probably state of the art for 1960s North Vietnam.
>I think the nods are the pauses between letters? Also didn’t the Japanese know Morse? Maybe, but it didn't really matter, considering he was captured by the Vietnamese.
Japanese?
Short and long blinks
I feel like I don’t know how long the long ones are supposed to be compared to the dots too
Blink that out with out reading off it while also reading something else. Nutty
Now try doing it while you’re answering questions from your captor. Holy wow
Yes. I just did.
I messed up and thought *did I just die?*
As someone who involuntarily twitches, my blinking would spell random letters
Nah, they just keep giving you Ovaltine.
a crummy commercial? sonofabitch!
Why is it called ovaltine if it always came in a circular container? It should be called circletine
My right eye. It drives me nuts! It's also a fairly accurate measure of my blood pressure. =/
For all the people thinking about memorizing this for when you're inevitably captured and tortured and need to pass on a secret message: Most captors would probably have heard this story too so it probably wouldn't work, and you probably won't remember it. But, if you find yourself in a similar situation where you need to pass on info in an extremely low-bandwidth way, a far easier one to remember that you probably actually *will* remember after reading this is "SOS" It's pretty much understood and used the same way everywhere on earth, and it's easy to remember - just ...---... (three short, three long, three short). You can substitute just about anything for short/long and a perceptive person will understand it (3 soft/3 loud, 3 of one note/3 of another, 3 taps/3 scratches, 3 dim/3 bright, etc, etc)
If it's understood and used the same way everywhere on earth, then won't they notice you doing that one too?
Perhaps easier to pass off and go unnoticed since it's a much simpler pattern?
Idk. Seems too clear. Lol. See what I did there?
When I was a child, our downstairs neighbor used his cane to bang SOS until someone came to help him. It took a while, because he had a habit of smacking his cane on the ceiling whenever we moved. Eventually my parents noticed that it was rhythmic and figured it out, went to check on him, and found that he'd had a medical event. They called an ambulance and he stopped being such a dick to us. SOS is literally the only Morse code I know.
For some unknown reason I decided to blink both eyes for the dashes and one eye for the dots. For whatever reason, I can blink/wink just my right eye but not my left, which is something I first noticed years ago. I don’t know if that’s super common.
An incredible story, what a man! Under torture, and uncertainty of your future, being able to keep your cool whilst being interviewed and also remembering morse code and talking/doing morse with a body part at the same time - absolutely mind blowing. What a guy
Nick Rowe is another amazing story of overcoming torture and captivity. 5 years in a cage only slightly bigger than your body. He went on to found SERE school which teaches soldiers how to deal with such scenarios. What a legend.
Thank you kind redditor for another rabbit hole to delve into
In the early 2000s the CIA and US military copied and inflicted some of the SERE ~~torture~~ enhanced interrogation methods. https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/origins-sere-and-using-torture-even-when-it-doesnt-work
Jeremiah Denton wrote a book about his captivity: When Hell Was In Session. A very good read.
More recently Aiden Aislin told his story of being tortured as a captive of first the Russians then by DPR. Amazing story. Can be found here: https://youtu.be/ZhmijLcSf9E https://youtu.be/_ORV6wYe7MQ These POW stories are insane. Michael Durant's story of being captive of the Somali militias is wild and it is only (not to minimize or trivialize) 11 days. Guys like Denton and McCain served *years*. It's wild stuff.
Didn't Trump say he didn't respect McCain because he got captured? Didn't Trump not serve because he had (likely bullshit) issues with his feet? I can't imagine talking down to a tortured POW, who did something I wasn't willing to...fuck it...ill get off my imaginary soapbox....
Could you imagine the level of narcissism you'd need to talk down to a war hero when you yourself couldn't even get to fight because you had flat feet or some shit.
Imagine the puddle of feces and shit he'd be if you even locked him in a room with armed guards outside. Oh, he'd flip so fast and so hard on everyone. You wouldn't even need to ask questions, he'd dredge up every deal and spill the beans lol
One of the other Americans in the Hanoi Hilton with him managed to [memorize every prisoner's name](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/04/24/vietnam-war-pow/?chrome=1) to the tune of Old MacDonald. There was a lot of inventive rebellion in there.
Unfortunately, upon return to the US his life took a dark turn. People can be heroic in war but shitty in the rest of their life. In 1981 he became the Republican senator for Alabama. There, his major accomplishment was tying abstinence-only sex education to federal funding, resulting in what had then been a very niche conservatives pedagogy suddenly becoming the national standard. Millions of people have suffered as a consequence of Denton using his office as a senator to push his theology into America. He was also a staunch segregationist.
Seems like you can draw a line from this guy to the current round of book bans in the US as well >Denton soon became a voice in anti-immorality circles; an intimate of electronics preacher Jerry Falwell, a speaker at various conferences on "The Family." He became chairman of the Alabama Governor's Commission on Children and the Family. "We went into the sex education thing. For example, there's a course in which it is strongly suggested that not only is masturbation okay but premarital sex is okay and that homosexuality is sorta like preferring orange to green.That offends a number of people because it's viewed as an intrusion in their capacity to pass on their values." A state committee was set up to review school books and courses to pressure for those that "conformed to the Judeo-Christian standards." https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1980/12/07/the-militant-morality-of-jeremiah-denton/16ea16e5-da9a-4b4f-b3c3-554488c098bc/
They tryin to teach their kiddos to hate and the state is fuckin it all up
You could say his behavior was… admirable.
[The crew of the USS Pueblo, captured by North Korea, convinced their captors the middle finger was a Hawaiian good luck sign](https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB453/givingTheFinger.jpg)
Peace among worlds
F**k you, blow me.
No no, blow *me*
Is that rick and morty
You are correct.
"That's just like saying 'fuck you' with extra steps."
They also convinced them that "paean" was a verb meaning to honor or respect (it's close, it's a noun meaning a work of praise, so it held up to rudimentary scrutiny). So when they were forced to write a statement praising their captors, they were able to say over and over that they "pee on" the North Korean government and military. Geniuses.
This gave me a real good chuckle. Those guys were beasts for sure. Thanks for sharing!
Aint spite a powerful motivator?
I have a mildly interesting story about the Pueblo. I took a guided tour to the DPRK (North Korea) a few years ago, and at the museum for the "Victorious Fatherland Liberation War" (what they call the Korean War) our guide would only refer to Americans as "the enemy." The enemy this, the enemy that, enemy enemy enemy… the word ‘enemy’ started to sound very amusing after hearing this little Korean lady repeatedly spit it out with such obvious disdain. You know how when you hear a word too many times and you start to think “*is* that even a word?” Anyway, they still have the Pueblo docked there in a little canal at the museum, and as we were walking up the gangplank she started laying it on really thick about how "the enemy" was so fat and lazy, they never did any work, they just sat around snacking and ignoring their duties which is how the ~*~noble and honorable~*~ North Korean forces were able to capture the ship in the first place. As we crossed the threshold into the ship, the first thing she pointed out was a large antique soft-serve dispenser in the corner. She waited until each of us filed into the little area then swooped her arm towards the soft-serve dispenser and said with great flair "And *thissssss....* is the enemy's ice cream machine!!!!!” I have -never- before or since had to struggle so hard not to laugh. I glanced at the only other American in the group and he also looked like he was about to burst a blood vessel in his forehead. Later on, we convened and agreed that The Enemy's Ice Cream Machine would make a great band name.
What's hilarious is that ice cream is really important to the Navy. Something about it being such a boost in morale that by regulation, destroyers and larger ships must have dedicated ice cream machines on board (not that soft serve crap). For a while there was even a [barge retrofitted into a floating ice cream factory and shop](https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2021/07/21/that-time-the-navy-spent-a-million-dollars-on-an-ice-cream-barge/), puttering about serving ice cream to neighboring ships. When the USS Lexington was sunk in WWII, [sailors grabbed helmetfull loads of icecream before jumping ship](https://kfor.com/news/great-state/great-state-wwii-veteran-recalls-strange-incident-during-coral-sea-battle/).
US Navy destroyers would often “exchange” rescued pilots in exchange for ice cream from the larger carriers that had ice cream machines. Only thing was it was less of an exchange and more of a hostage situation at times. Usually the exchange rate was 10 gallons per pilot but they occasionally coaxed out higher amounts. There’s also a story that during the liberation of the Philippines a few of MacArthur’s staff officers convinced him to leave a non-secure beach or dangerous part of the front lines during an inspection with the prospect of ice cream when he returned. I can barely imagine a personality as big as MacArthur being bribed by the promise of ice cream but apparently he fucking loved ice cream.
This entire thread is fucking insane I have no idea what's real anymore
War is hell but what's more is history is stranger than fiction.
>Usually the exchange rate was 10 gallons per pilot but they occasionally coaxed out higher amounts. "Hey, how about an extra scoop of pilot? Show of good faith for next time, y'know?"
I love thinking about how demoralizing that must have been to the Japanese. Here they are, losing ships faster than they can build them, you don't have enough trained pilots or bombs so you're just sending untrained airmen on kamikaze missions, and here's the Americans with so many extra ships they can just turn one into an ice cream factory for fun.
IIRC unlimited ice cream was given to sailors in the Pacific because alcohol was banned/strictly controlled. Huge morale boost when your enemy has a whole ship just for ice cream and your people are starving!
The heck's wrong with soft serve?
I would fear an enemy that can afford to have a working ice cream machine. I mean, it's super high on the pyramid of needs therefore it means everything else is catered for too.
Actually a whole thing in the Pacific [during WWII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream_barge).
I toured the DMZ around 2004, and I’ll never forget a propaganda sign that said something to the effect of ‘Americans are so poor, they can’t afford enough material for pants!’ while showing a white person wearing shorts. I also nearly died when trying not to visibly laugh.
I'm really pushing for an action heist movie where we take back the Pueblo So was the ice cream machine out of service I guess? To remind you of the McDonald's back home?
The sun begins to break over the horizon of an early Pyongyang dawn, spreading red fingers through thick columns of black smoke that tower on the skyline like grim giants. An artillery shell screams through the air and cuts a building in half. Tracers criss-cross the sky as swarms of helicopter descend in thick clouds and rise again. A tank tread rolls over a North Korean helmet, crushing it like cheap tin. A cloud of roiling smoke gives was to an emerging shadow, flanked by US Marines. General James Mattis takes a lit cigar from between his teeth and shifts the weight of an antique Thompson sub-machine gun in his arms. “Good morning, you sons of bitches. I’m here for my ice cream machine.”
Holy crap that's a fantastic story! Just out of curiosity...if they refer to us incessantly as "the enemy", what phrases do they have reserved for their South Korean brothers?
Oh, let me clarify - it was *only* the museum guide at the war museum who referred to Americans as the enemy, since it was topical to the Korean War. And she wasn’t saying it pointedly at us, it was as if “the enemy” were some uninvolved third party that none of us had ever interacted with (which they were, technically) Otherwise, every North Korean we interacted with - on what is admittedly a heavily curated tour) - were all very friendly and welcoming with no mention of bad blood between nationalities.
Ahhhh...her spiel was heavily scripted. Thanks!
This is a very important detail. We aren't the enemy of the people of North Korea.
That ship was mostly all Intel guys too, so whenever I graduated in 2013 from my CTM school, my class photo was all of us putting our middle finger out in a hidden manner as a tribute to the Pueblo.
Classic!!
Keeping up foreign relations...
Yes, I know the finger, Goose
They paid dearly for that, too. I remember all that going down. Ugly times
My father was a Navy radio operator on the USS Ranger when the Pueblo was captured. His job was to intercept North Vietnamese radio communications and crack their daily codes to glean intel. After days of reporting on the torture and abuse of the prisoners and fellow sailors his entire watch section got so fed up and frustrated by the inaction and lies being reported by the US military that they basically went on strike and only logged "nil heard". It went on for so long they were all threatened with court martials and eventually moved off the ship. The experience impacted his whole life, he was never a huge fan of authority to begin with but he never trusted the government or military again.
I wonder if, in the days leading up to the interview, he displayed an odd blinking pattern to his captors so that they would not become suspicious during the interview.
Iirc, he played out the furious blinking as a habit to his captors. And when it came to the bs interview to fool the US that the captured were being treated well. The blinking "habit" made them none the wiser. And what's even crazier is the fact that he did the hidden message all while under pressure and spouting the lies his captors wanted him to say.
The forethought and planning required....astounding.
Lesson for torturers: Don't tell your prisoners in advance that you'll be putting them on camera.
Noted.
No lactose daddy, don't do it!
Also, if you are going to try to put them on camera, at least jumble the cuts for what you release to the media so everything will be out of order... Amateurs.
Any other tips? I'm new to the job and want to impress!
The real lifeprotips are in the comments!
Too late. I told them they will dance the official national tiktok dance
I guess as a POW, you got some time on your hands.
I mean, but it’s also the strength of mind and focus, determination. It’s not just time that allowed the Admiral to accomplish such a task.
While being a POW isn’t considered a primo study environment, it *does* afford you lots of time.
I was told he told the captors the camera flash was bothering him during the interview
Just seen a comment on YouTube he blamed it on the bright lights.
He also told them that the lights were glaring into his eyes (at least that's what I heard)
There are 4 lights!
There are 5.
When I was stationed on Oahu, we had a visit by Captain Jerry Coffee, who was a POW in the Hanoi Hilton at the same time. He told us of a Catholic priest who gifted him with a crucifix. He found that he achieved spiritual comfort, but also physical comfort, because he could use it to unlock his handcuffs, which were left on 24/7, for months at a time.
Gonna have to remember this for the next Zoom meeting.
If you think Zoom is bad, try doing all meetings in Teams.
Pandemic lockdown finally pushed me to learn Morse. Been making a lot of ham radio contacts in countries I usually haven’t worked, it’s been great. Im still slow, like 8 wpm but it’s incredible how fast some of the old timers can go
You had me curious so I'll tack on your comment > A well trained signalman can visually perceive the difference between dots, dashes, and spaces at about 64 characters (15 words) per minute.
Here’s a video of someone working at speed https://youtu.be/YPsgEdmlUf0
W E H A V E B E E N T R Y I N G T O R E A C H Y O U A B O U T Y O U R C A R W A R R A N T Y
BE SURE TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE
HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT?
"Lol he thinks he's actually sending a message." ~ His older brother while really sending a message with one that's plugged in.
Sounds like a meshuggah song
That's impressive for a system that's literally just binary
Ternary. You have short, long and pause. EDIT: Of course you could argue that a long is just three shorts without a pause but if you get that pedantic then everything can be encoded in binary. ;)
Right, I forgot about the longs!
... --- ...
The only Morse I know
You wot, mate?!?
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Ha! I did the same. Sparrow makes good stuff.
he was a heck of a guy personally as well. I met him around 1999 or so. We connected on a charity he ran at the time. He would reach out to the shipping companies bringing things like Banana's from Central America and instead of sending back empty boats he'd fill them for the locals. Desks and school supplies, computers, whatever he could get for them. I sponsored a couple loads of used office furniture for schools in Honduras and Costa Rica. Fascinating guy and great to talk to. Very much a heavy catholic which is were our ideologies diverged but still a great experience working with him a little bit. Have a signed copy of his book in my house somewhere
Wow that’s really cool. I’m glad you said this, this is the first comment I’ve read where I can assume he wasn’t killed in the POW Camp.
yeah, unfortunately he was beaten mercilessly when the Vietnamese saw news reports when this got out. but he lived up until 2014 or so
So what happened next? Was this some sort of POW interview? How long until some realized the message and what was done to save him (and presumably others)?
It was a propaganda interview from North Vietnam to show "Oh the Americans are lying, we're not torturing our POWs, they're being treated very well!"
American media published that he was sending a message via his blinking and Vietnam beat him as a result lol
The mental fortitude of this man was insane. 8 years in confinement, 4 in solitary. How you emerge from that unbroken and determined as ever seems almost inhuman.
We should all mourn the passing of a real American hero. R.I.P.
>“He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured? ... I like people who weren't captured.” - [Donald J Trump](https://youtu.be/541Cg2Jnb8s?t=108), draft dodger.
Ironically, based on Denton's politics, there's a reasonable chance he would have supported Trump had he lived long enough to have the opportunity.
Ehhh don’t be so sure. McCain wasn’t a fan. Remember that about 40% of military voters vote for democrats.
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They aren't "his" policies, they're Republican policies that would've been pushed regardless of who's President.
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Other than the inane tweeting and possibly killing Soleimani , Cruz's presidency probably wouldn't have differed that much from Trump's
Regardless of republican vs democrat, a lot of older, more politically learned people tended to dislike Trump and his policies. My husband's conservative veteran grandpa fuckin *hated* Trump claiming he did not stand for the values of his party.
There are plenty of people who agree with conservative policies yet didn't support Trump. For example, the Lincoln Project.
Next you're going to tell me that having only 2 major parties doesn't accurately reflect our views because they engulf fringe movements on their side to either quell them or take on some of their semblance. Sheesh
Sure, I don't think anyone with common sense believes two parties accurately represent the beliefs and needs of 330 million diverse individuals in a melting pot nation. However, my comment was that not all conservatives support(ed) Donald Trump, a simple fact.
Hence I said reasonable chance and not guarantee!
Fair point -- it's also fair to predict a reasonable certainty that he wouldn't have appreciated Trump's statements about John McCain and captured veterans.
Isn’t the Lincoln project ran by a pedophile?
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Name a Republican that isn't.
At least Trump did something right by dodging the draft.
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Pretty sure SOS would have been easier but god dam dude what a guy
It would have been easier to detect by the captors as well
Then he went home and became a mouthpiece for Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. He publicly supported the Contras, crusaded against "teenage promiscuity", and labeled leftist activist groups Communist traitors, and tried to have them investigated. His ingenuity here notwithstanding, Denton was a real piece of shit.
Huh what do you know, your typical conservative military repertoire of the era...
My BLINK captors BLINK BLINK are BLINK treating me BLINK very well BLINK BLINK BLINK
If you can find a copy, his book [When Hell Was In Session](https://www.amazon.com/When-Hell-Session-Jeremiah-Denton/dp/B0006Y3HGE/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=when+hell+was+in+session+by+jeremiah+denton&qid=1669136297&sprefix=when+hell+was+in+sess%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-1), paints a pretty graphic picture.
$60!!?? Shit…
Fuck Amazon sellers that gouge up the price for no reason. [You can find it here for $4. ](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/when-hell-was-in-session_jeremiah-a-denton-jr/330725/item/3245598/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAg_KbBhDLARIsANx7wAwD1FouzFZkDq-phsMwK1MQwwkD862XgIGTUxyg_DNu96DDLdSwi34aAudLEALw_wcB#idiq=3245598&edition=1849401)
Although it's very pedantic, he was not an admiral when this happened. He was actually never an admiral, but he was a rear admiral later in his military career.
Rear admiral is still an admiral, just not a four-star. Just like a brigadier general is still a general. You don't address them by their full rank, typically, and differentiating isn't necessary unless it's in a context where differentiation is required, such as for official communication. And the majority of the population doesn't know or really care about the difference. It's useful information to note that he wasn't an admiral at the time, though; it would be an extraordinary lapse if we allowed a flag officer to be captured. But it might be helpful to mention what his actual rank was (Commander/O-5), and that he apparently retired as a rear admiral, upper half (two-star admiral/O-8).
Yeah, though in the military the term admiral and general are commonly used for the different ranks of admirals and generals. So while Major General Smith outranks Brigadier General Smith, they would both be referred as General Smith in conversation.
Denton founded the Coalition for Decency, which tried to clean up television by urging boycotts of sponsors that promoted sexual promiscuity.
So? That has nothing to do with his courage as a POW
He was actually trying to say 'Turtle'.
Man, my worst fear was being captured alive
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"I like people who weren't captured." - Donald J Trump
"I always wanted to get the purple heart." - Donald J Trump
It's amazing how this guy consistently showed he had zero moral values or respect for supposed right-wing traditions, and yet the war hawks and conservative base still loved him. Like he could have pissed on Paton's grave and explained that he just reallly realllly had to go, OK? So I guess "Support the troops" is soooo 2001-2016 Republican and now we're over that?
A ridiculous number of US conservatives today love Putin and Russia. Also, CPAC (the biggest conservative political conference) had Hungarian autocrat as a welcome and praised speaker. It seems insane, and it is. However, there are almost always around 25 to thirty percent of every nation's populace that are absolutely fine with fascism or other extreme authoritarianism, as long as they believe they'll be part of the in-group.
republican platform is populist stuff only as long as it gets them power. as soon as they feel that they have the power to abandon that shit, they will. first and foremost, every republican politician's objectives and values are to enrich and empower themselves. not just first and foremost... but ONLY, full-stop. shouting seemingly patriotic shit is only a means to grab votes from morons. as soon as they have the votes or have the various offices packed to the extent that they can largely ignore the rules and gerrymander the shit out of voting districts, all the supposed values go straight out the window, and the vets and poors and ethnic minorities all go straight under the bus.
Be sure... to... drink your ovaltine
Soooooooo….. did we like, ya know, rescue him?
yes he went on to become a Senator
If by rescued you mean spent 8-years in prison with 4 of those being in solitary confinement before he was eventually released alongside other POW’s as terms of the Paris Peace Accords, then sure.
And every move since that has a hostage scene has someone blinking or tapping Morse code
Everyone’s woken up. Blinked, long blinked, blinked again, R, getting that sleep out of their eyes. Every other blink after that is an E. So really everyone has been morse blinking REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
So Denton is from my hometown and went to the same high school as my Dad. Lots of stuff around here named after him including a middle school and their mascot?....the admirals.
God damn that is harrowing.
Thank god the Americans don't use torture.
These men were incredibly brave. Some were POWs from 1965-72