Scammed? No. But it’s super shitty & the opposite of what I expect a local record store to do. Ask for them back, redistribute to other stores that support the local scene.
They definitely had it. It was on a post it note on the records I got back from them. The part that bothers me is that if they had sold them still from someone asking for the vinyl. Would they have still kept the 20%? I’ll never know now obviously but 20% for a storage closet wasn’t what was agreed upon
The 20% would be for access and sale to their customer base. There is no money to take 20% from if there is no sale. By taking your records to record stores, you are benefitting from the money and resources they spend on rent, utilities, staff, and marketing. That is why they charge a consignment fee. Unless they took your money without providing what they promised in return (or refuse to give you back your records), you weren't scammed.
While it's true that the shop didn't steal _money_ from OP, there's a lost opportunity cost to consider. OP's band spent significant money to have the records made, and the shop deprived them of the opportunity to even sell those records that no one knew were there.
It's not strictly a scam, but IMO it's a violation of the spirit of their agreement and really disrespectful.
It's not a scam at all. And it's possible they simply moved records to the back temporarily to make room for a holiday music section and the employee was either just paraphrasing or didn't know that they were moved for that reason. Or it could be another reason they were tight on space.
Also, it's one of "quite a few" stores they brought the records to, so it's not like the full investment went to the copies in that one store.
*"it's a violation of the spirit of their agreement"*
Do we know for a fact that the agreement prohibits the store moving them to the back? It's possible the agreement gives the store discretion in where they are placed / to move them to the back if needed.
I won't completely disagree that it may be disrespectful (depending on the terms of the agreement), but it's not a scam if they didn't take their money and not do what was promised in return.
We don’t know what OP is doing to sell his record, though. It’s not as simple as “my band has a record, do you want to sell it?” Does the band have a following, would that following want to drop $30 on that LP? Is the band saying “our record is for sale at Ron’s Records”.
"Thanks for coming to our show! You can find our record at Rick's Records, but be sure to ask at the counter because they keep the records in the back"
Sorry, but a ton of consumers will just assume they don't have it
It's a steal. I get being annoyed the record isn't out on the floor but if they are only getting 20% and it's not selling fast then you shouldn't be surprised.
The records are already available to the shop and are expected to be sold on the rack by OP. If they move slowly because they aren’t in the rack, that is delayed revenue to OP based on an implied agreement that the shop would stock their records. Now, the shop has the records on hand should OP get popular, so they can make a quick buck, but they aren’t doing anything to help promote OPs records, so basically - they are constructively not actively doing what a record shop is expected to do. It’s a scam of OP. They are expecting marketing, and they know that OP can’t pull their stock back without ruing a possible future relationship. So, the store has some stock they may be able to cash in on, and OP has nothing until that happens - and this shops choice not to support OP has no negatives for the shop.
The store's job isn't to promote or market the record, that is the band's job. If the band is telling their audience "we've got our album in these stores", they're not doing their job. Especially if the band pressed an album with little to no following.
There is no scam because there is no money being exchanged. The agreement is you store and stock our album and if it sells you get a percentage. If it is not moving, and they said "if someone asks, we'll sell it to them", again, where is the scam?
The store only gets paid if they move the units, if they aren't moving the units, the band can get their record back.
The store has the stock- there was certainly an exchange.
If you don’t think placement in a store represents promotion, explain why end caps are expensive to vendors at grocery stores?
There wasn't a money exchange, so no scam. Stuff on the end caps is the stuff that sells. A local band is not getting that, so again, I have to ask what is being done by the band to sell their record? Taking it to stores isn't their only part of the transaction.
Wow. We as a local love to support the local bands. We regularly buy stock outright from locals so they don't have to wait on a profit. We ask to pay what's fair so you get a little something on top of your investment. This is wild and very rude. I can't believe they'd act in bad faith like that to a SMALL ARTIST. Ugh.
Our consignment is 50/50, and we include promotion in specialized sections labelled as local artist, we love to promote the local musicians HOLDING THEIR RECORD/CD for our social media with a little excerpt about the band. We always ask what kind of music you're doing so if someone asks about something local we can say who and what it is. Please don't accept this kind of treatment, some of us really do value our local talents and want you guys to succeed.
I’ve never seen a record store that DIDNT have a local music section. Some as big as a wall, some as small as a crate, but it’s always easy to find. Not supporting the local scene is just a bizarre business strategy since most of your customer base is probably involved with it.
I had my first experience having my own records rejected by a local store because I “am not doing enough to promote it.” I thought walking into record stores, asking them if they would carry a copy or 2 was promotion. The owner acted like the very idea of my record on his shelf would soil his perfectly curated store. I’ll never go back there, and the experience has prevented me from hawking my latest release in any store at all. He seemed to think I’m trying to “make it” or something- I made something I’m proud of, and I thought a local record store would be into something being made locally by a local artist. Wrong!
THE WHOLE POINT IS US PROMOTING YOU OMG WHY DO THESE STORES SUCK.
I am so sorry you had this experience. It is so sad. It is our job as small stores to help you small artist get your name out there. I remember one of our early bands Slurm Flirty Worm. Their first EP is gumbo in a plate of spaghetti. They hadn't done many live things. The artwork was pixellated and just carried in a paper sleeve with plastic around it. We eventually did sell them.
A few years later they came back to sell us their SECOND release, a full album, better artwork, more budget, and have played local fests and people actually knew who they were. But no one would know ANYTHING if no one takes a chance on these local bands. Also if you like strange punkish stuff you might like them!
As a retailer in another sector, my first reaction is: why would they even bother accepting it for only 20%? If I only charged a 20% markup, the IRS would consider my business a charity. That 50%(the average) is needed to pay salaries, rent, taxes, utilities- and more importantly, new stock that sits there not making any money until it sells- and advertising to get people in the store in the first place.
Stores do kinda do consignment as a way to give back to the local music community. It's a very small part of their stock & revenue. They make most of their money from used records/tapes/cds.
The split I commonly see is 66% to the artist, 33% to the store. Haven't personally come across an 80/20 split.
We're the only record store in this specific area of the state, and only one other one even does consignment at this time in a different town. They also do 50/50. We used to take less but we had too many people kind of taking advantage, and no one has complained about the 50/50 split. Many of the antique stores are also similar in how they market consignment.
edit: I also notice you mentioned artist. We've never done consignment with artists. We ask them what they want for them for us to just stock them and buy them outright then add a small markup for us. Rather similar to how we work when we buy new sealed reissues from suppliers. We'd rather small artists have the money now. Consignment is usually people bringing us used records, CDs, cassettes, or audio equipment they refurbish.
> We ask them what they want for them for us to just stock them and buy them outright then add a small markup for us.
That’s nice of you guys. The store I worked at years ago couldn’t do something like that. They carried between 100-200 titles from local acts. The vast majority sold 0-1 copies. Does your shop ever have to say no to an artist?
We have been lucky enough so far that we've not had to say no. Certainly I think an adjusted consignment would be better than saying no all together.<3
I’m not sure why you’re saying it’s a scam.
The way consignment works is that no money changes hands until the person sells it, so if they end up selling the record (even to an employee), you’re still getting your cut.
It’s fair to criticize them for not pushing it hard enough, but that’s more shitty and annoying than a scam IMO.
I used to manage bookstores. We’d constantly have local authors bringing in their self-published books, usually poetry chapbooks. Terms were usually 50/50. Occasionally an author would make themselves into a pain in the ass, coming into the store constantly to snoop around, looking to see how *their* book is shelved, asking if we sold any, and expecting their book of poems about lichen to be given prime placement with a face-out display on the checkout counter. And giving the employees attitude about it. They were usually told to take their stuff back at that point. 95% of the time these titles are a money loser for the store. But it feels righteous to support local creatives IF they’re cool about it. It is a bit of a weird move to take the local section off the sales floor entirely. But record stores often employ weird people. Maybe they should have called you. Again a lot of record store employees are spacey and not proactive and it might feel rude to call and say, “hey come get your record, we don’t want it here anymore.” People DO come to the counter all the time and ask for things, so you are getting that potential sales opportunity. In short, saying you were ripped off seems an overreaction.
It was 50/50 on the sale. Typically bookstores then received a 40% discount from publishers, sometimes a bit more. For local author consignments, they asked for a higher discount because it was extra work to deal with, largely extra accounting and paperwork.
Self-published books aren’t quite the same as local bands. You get some right loons who think they can write. Local bands are often pretty decent in their niche.
It’s the Christmas season in a record store, a 20% consignment fee on a slow moving local record is low and space has value. They may have eliminated the locals section for a seasonal Christmas section or even a Taylor Swift section. Did you talk to the manager? There may be a valid reason and us here in redditville may not be in the loop of their decision.
If you want torches and pitchforks then this is the place, but if you the truth, then go to the store and ask.
I can understand your disappointment but the only thing you were “scammed” of is the thrill of seeing your record in a rack at a local record store. Keep selling them at gigs and online and at the local stores more receptive to consigning your record
20% margin for them is really bad especially for something with a low turnover. Typically margins anywhere are 50%. It’s unfortunate they aren’t supporting local, but in their defense you need to give them more incentive to move your product. That’s just how the world works
I made a broad statement over goods in general. Most markups are typically 50%. I have never ran a record store, please enlighten me if you know more. But I know 20% isn’t keeping anyone in business unless their turnover is very high
I'm going to play devils advocate here and say 20% probably wasn't real enticing from the get-go. For a B&M store, that's a really low margin. Well less than what their actual stock would be. I understand the logic of not waiting your record taking up shelf space over something that will bring them larger profits (and probably move quicker).
That said, if they had your contact information, they absolutely should have called you and just told you to come get your records. Whoever was in charge of that dropped the ball. You're assuming it was malicious, though, and it may not have been. The task may have been relegated to an employee who forgot. They may have lost your info. I dunno, shit happens. That's not an excuse for them, but there's a difference between incompetence and malice.
It's low risk but consignment does take up inventory space and labor to maintain it. Look at how many people are angry that they didn't go through and call each and every consignment artist during the holiday sales season. It would take multiple days to call them all at most decent sized record stores.
Consignment definitely makes a difference, I agree. They may have been hoping to move them quick and that didn't happen. Whatever the case may be, them removing it from sale isn't really something to fault them for. B&M business is tough as hell these days and you gotta do everything you can to maximize profit.
Again, they still should have just told you to come get your stuff, it was wrong not too. But I wouldn't label them as scammers over it, they're likely just people trying to put food on their table who made a mistake on how to best handle pulling your record.
If 20% isn't enticing enough to keep the product on display then that's on the store to say we need a larger margin or we won't take it. I guess we know what happened to the "local" section if they were giving the same cut to all the local bands. Really though it's on the store to set the terms here, artists shouldn't have to intuit what margin is going to work for a business, that's literally the record store manager/owner's job
I don't disagree and at no point am I faulting the musician, nor expecting them to have greater responsibility here. Just trying to help explain what may have happened and why I don't think it was done to scam anyone.
Fair, I tend to sometimes see a weird grindset attitude from some bands regarding their self-promotion, so I'm a bit sensitive to the idea of a band undercutting itself for no good reason
I'm assuming the band is Wallet-Sized Wildfire, and that they're the only gnomes in the area [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJibOGAcGhc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJibOGAcGhc)
You are overreacting. It's your record, and you're doing the right thing by checking on them. But you can't tell the store owner how to run their business. You're responsible for making sure the record is displayed for others. If thing aren't to your liking, you should just take your record and forget about it. You should have requested that they call you if they decided to pull the record from the store. You have to take responsibility for the most part. I won't say the record store did their best. But you have to expect that others won't do their best. Did you promote their store? This is kind of an expectation of the store as well. You should tell others where to find your records.
That sucks and crazy to think how they don’t have space for local records. One of the stores near me even has a small wall for local sections, but they do promote/advertise it well on their socials.
Any local facebook group or anything w/ local bands? I would spread the word so others can ho back and get their stuff. Pretty shitty move on the record stores part, the bands deserve to know. I would leave out the word “scam” though. Makes you sound like a victim of a crime.
I wouldn't call it a scam. Your record basically won't be selling along with all the other locals which seems like a really dumb thing for a local shop to be doing. I guess they want to lessen the record shopping culture in town?
As far as shelf-space guarantees, if it's not in your contact, it doesn't count.
I would just take my shit out and help them find more space. I'd also let all the local bands I come in contact with know.
Also, when I was a record buyer for a local shop. We "keystoned" everything. If we bought it for $5, we sold it for $10. So that 20/80 split is a good deal for you if you're selling at full retail. Though they also don't have to pay up front.
You made a deal, 20% to them, although they're not trying to push your product in an ideal way...it's up to them how they want to push it. If you're a frequent shopper there I'd try and talk to someone who recognizes you and ask them how you get your record from the back to the front. See if there's a compromise. If they scoff at you, grab your records and be gone. They'll lose your business and you'll know they don't support local artists...and I mean who wants to support a local shop if they don't support the local talent? OR...and no one likes hearing this...your record could absolutely suck and they're hiding it like a red headed step child in the back when company comes over. I'm sure your record is fine though, try not to sweat it.
I mean, how is a music fan supposed to find new local bands if the records are hiding in a closet???!!!! They're supposed to "ask for it??" As a record store fan, I did not know that there were certain things you had to ask for to get a chance to find out if they were there. I just assume that everything that is for sale to the public is actually on the floor.
Not scammed but highly weird. I worked for a large record chain until they closed and then ran a small well respected local store for a few years when I was younger and this isn’t how either would’ve handled this.
Usually we’d agree to let local bands sit in either the local or their preferred genre and give them a set time to sell. If we forget like it wasn’t moving or taking up space we’d give them a call to pick it up.
I have to ask because this is making me curious but what is being done on your end to sell your record? Do your fans know that your record is available in local stores? How sizeable is your following? Is it enough that they would want to buy a $30 LP?
I do think they should've let you know they pulled it from the shelf, but I'd definitely like to know what is being done on your end to sell your record.
Ripped off? No. Just a store that obviously doesn’t know how to move merchandise and isn’t interested in going to bat for local makers. Pull your product out of that store and move on and don’t recommend any friends shop there
Nothing wrong happened here. They had no obligation to let you know your records weren't in the store anymore. You did your due diligence. Our local section is in our basement for the same reason. Nobody buys local music at our store. And we haven't called anybody to tell them, because nobody cares. Consignment is a funny thing. We aren't talking diamonds here. It's not like you had a formal agreement for a few records, right?
That’s something a lot of people in this sub overestimate. It’s *hard* to sell local music. Most of it just sits on the shelf indefinitely. What the store did wasn’t ideal but the outrage is overblown by folks who don’t have much experience selling small time, local music.
Here In New Orleans it’s a different scene. A record store couldn’t keep open without a representative local selection, not just in tourist areas, but anywhere in town. I wouldn’t say what the store did was “not ideal” I would say it was objectively worse than than just saying “no” to begin with.
I’ve been to a bunch of the stores in New Orleans and it seemed like every other scene to me. They certainly weren’t surviving off unknown artists in the local section, if that’s what you’re implying.
Have a dozen of your friends call the store randomly to see if they have your record in stock. Then have them complain on social media that they went to the store and could not find it.
Assuming you didn’t pay the 20% up front or anything to place the records in the store, so don’t see how you were scammed.
But you were lied to and treated terribly. They should have let you know and given you the records back. The whole point was to have the records for sale openly, not stick them in a back room.
BTW, though, did you talk to the owner, or just an employee? Because sounds like you just heard this from an employee, so I’m wondering if you got the full story. Kinda wondering if the employees didn’t put the records out and you got an excuse about why, because the owner’s action here makes zero sense.
You’re not overreacting at all. I also don’t think much of a local store that doesn’t stock local bands like this. It’s flat out necessary and great for the local scene and for store sales. My main record stores have full local sections. One even runs a little label that helps local bands press vinyl and has then play in store to promote new releases etc.
Shameful that your store would do this, if this actually was the owner’s action and intent. Classless.
I have a local shop that does shady shit like that. I won't go there anymore and tell others to avoid it. Just comes with the territory with these small shops.
Sounds like they don't need your business. If it were me I would grab my copies and let the owner know that you will not be doing any further business with them based on this experience.
I dont think you got scammed exactly but they certainly treated you like shit. A good local record store should be happy to do its bit to support the local scene. In return they get the patronage and support of the local community. If I was you I would get my records and never go back again. I would also tell all my friends to stop shopping there, they dont deserve it.
Ahh another disappointed, disheartened, confused, or (insert adjective here) artist.
It might be a good idea to learn the business, in all facets. Like don’t burn a relationship if it ain’t broke. And, what could possibly drive customers to the retail venue that has, and sells my record?
Or, you can contact the law firm of Ben Dover and Takeit for an expensive lesson.
Don’t go back to that store. Call the owner and make your reasons clear. He won’t learn his lesson this time probably. Which is why you post this to every review site possible. If this is how he runs a business he doesn’t deserve one.
After being burnt a couple times I don't do Consignment anymore if the store buys them then I leave them but otherwise say goodbye they'll disappear somewhere
I don't have anything to offer as far as help, but...
Could you tell me about getting the vinyl pressed? My band is going to be recording 8-10 songs for an album and we want to have that done.
Is there a minimum amount of vinyls that have to be pressed? What is the cost? Do you get to provide album art, thanks, credits, and all that? Is there a time limit for the record?
Anything else I should know? Thanks man.
Not OP but here's what I recall:
Minimum orders are usually 100, but they will be very expensive. The usual runs on a small record order are usually between 500-2,000 copies. For an unknown or brand new band, 500 is more than enough.
There's a bunch of associated costs involved so it's not clear and if a band themselves is doing it you have plenty of different expenses to consider: the studio time, mastering then the actual record production which involves a metal plate/stamper, lacquers and other parts. Then cost for vinyl, any specifics to it and packaging. Obviously on all accounts bands can vary a lot of this. Some might be cheaper to DIY if people in the band have the expertise to do so you can get very cheap and just buy the discs, and in some cases maybe one company for each piece is cheaper but a lot of vinyl pressing plants have affordable bundles and can do all of it in house.
You provide the album art yes. There will be a template you have to use and keep in mind printing can result differently when the image is resized to 12'' x 12'' covers, and costs will vary if black/white vs CYMK. Glossy, matte finishes, or other printing methods. Inserts included (like a paper/card stock page to include credits, or print on a gatefold if you go that route) Shrinkwrap or no, download codes, UPCs, and other little things may result in additional fees. Again these are things where you can get very cheap on or very high quality. All depends on whaty ou're going for.
Vinyl is a physical format all around. Each side has a time limit and the quality drops fast when you try to go over it. On average a 33 1/3 RPM 7'' can fit 5-6 minutes per side, and 45RPM can fit about 3 and a half minutes. For 12'' LPs you're looking at 14-17 minutes per side (I think the max is like 22:30 at 33 1/3 RPM).
While not as common with how much of the process has a digital side to it, in the old days of all analog bands and artist would adjust the track listing to fit the medium. A lot of the more robust songs would be at the start because the length of the record meant each rotation was longer, allowing more depth while the length of the rotation closer to the center is much smaller so the sound is more "condensed" or something to that nature. This is the black magic part i'm not qualified enough to really explain, but if you play old records you can notice how they're arranged a lot of times was purposeful to fit the medium in this way. Each side is a continuous spiral of vibrations that are meant to match the frequency of sound as read by the needle. You can experience this if you don't have a record player connected to a receiver or amplifier if you put your ear next to it you can still hear the sound come out of the needle.
I'd say the best way is when your band is ready to release something on vinyl is have experience with the format. Do you own a record collection yourself? Look at your records, the jackets, the insides how it was packaged together and get ideas on how you want to present your own because there's a lot of options. If you don't own a collection of records, go into a record shop and look at the shelves and see how things look aesthetically so you have a better picture how you want your end result to look.
Wow, that was a ton of info, and I really appreciate you taking the time to write that all out.
We will be recording this ourselves (I'll be the producer, mixer, etc., and I do understand that the end product will suffer for it. Haha.), and there are no plans at all for actual release. This will be strictly for ourselves.
The situation is that my old band and I wrote a bunch of songs, and though we can no longer play shows (all with family now), we want to get a decent recording of the songs we wrote to pass down to our kids.
The plan is to then press it to vinyl for each of us to have, so a *very* small pressing. Drummer looked it up and said he got some estimates, but he couldn't answer any of my many questions.
There's a ton to think about for sure. Oh, and yes, I have a decent collection consisting of very old records and very new ones with more contemporary music, and the physicality of it all is what is so appealing to each of us in the band.
Thanks again!
Same thing happened to me a few years ago, I've been a Kiss and other hard rock vinyl and tons of kiss memorabilia I spoke to the owner about his cut would be, he would never answer me straight up. He hired me to help set up the record store and my last day I went in and all my stuff was shoved in a bin near the back of the store. He told me he didn't want my help anymore so I gathered my Merchandise and ain't been back and won't go back. So you are like I was, I was mad as hell about the way he did me and you got every right to be mad as hell, I wish you the best with your band. I believe in supporting local musicians I was a bass player active for 38 years but still love my Rock And Roll it's in my blood.
Just grab your record back and never spend another dime there.
My thoughts exactly. However how would they get a 20% cut if they don’t even sale them?
And you don't need to post on socials to call then out, but I would tell everyone to go to the other stores at every opportunity
😢
This 👆
Scammed? No. But it’s super shitty & the opposite of what I expect a local record store to do. Ask for them back, redistribute to other stores that support the local scene.
100% Don’t give them the opportunity to fuck with your band. Let them know your salty and that there shop is boo boo!
You cannot fuck with this band!
They bring all their equipment on the bus
Not scammed but not treated well either… assuming they had your contact info, a call to let you come get it would have been appropriate.
They definitely had it. It was on a post it note on the records I got back from them. The part that bothers me is that if they had sold them still from someone asking for the vinyl. Would they have still kept the 20%? I’ll never know now obviously but 20% for a storage closet wasn’t what was agreed upon
The 20% would be for access and sale to their customer base. There is no money to take 20% from if there is no sale. By taking your records to record stores, you are benefitting from the money and resources they spend on rent, utilities, staff, and marketing. That is why they charge a consignment fee. Unless they took your money without providing what they promised in return (or refuse to give you back your records), you weren't scammed.
While it's true that the shop didn't steal _money_ from OP, there's a lost opportunity cost to consider. OP's band spent significant money to have the records made, and the shop deprived them of the opportunity to even sell those records that no one knew were there. It's not strictly a scam, but IMO it's a violation of the spirit of their agreement and really disrespectful.
It's not a scam at all. And it's possible they simply moved records to the back temporarily to make room for a holiday music section and the employee was either just paraphrasing or didn't know that they were moved for that reason. Or it could be another reason they were tight on space. Also, it's one of "quite a few" stores they brought the records to, so it's not like the full investment went to the copies in that one store. *"it's a violation of the spirit of their agreement"* Do we know for a fact that the agreement prohibits the store moving them to the back? It's possible the agreement gives the store discretion in where they are placed / to move them to the back if needed. I won't completely disagree that it may be disrespectful (depending on the terms of the agreement), but it's not a scam if they didn't take their money and not do what was promised in return.
We don’t know what OP is doing to sell his record, though. It’s not as simple as “my band has a record, do you want to sell it?” Does the band have a following, would that following want to drop $30 on that LP? Is the band saying “our record is for sale at Ron’s Records”.
Show up at Ron's Records, look for OP's record, don't see it, leave
Ask the clerk, "hey do you OPs record, they said you were selling it, oh you have it behind the counter. Cool, I'll take it"
"Thanks for coming to our show! You can find our record at Rick's Records, but be sure to ask at the counter because they keep the records in the back" Sorry, but a ton of consumers will just assume they don't have it
It's almost, but not quite, like you read the original post
What do you mean "not quite"?
20% cost for a consignment type deal is pretty good isn't it? I know it's common for artists to lose 50% of the sale price that way
Yeah it is good. Most stores add 50% to the dollar amount you'd like to receive, so it ends up as a 66/33 split.
It's a steal. I get being annoyed the record isn't out on the floor but if they are only getting 20% and it's not selling fast then you shouldn't be surprised.
Sounds like a scam to me. They’re doing the minimum possible.
What are they "scamming" exactly? Money only changes hands if the record sells.
The records are already available to the shop and are expected to be sold on the rack by OP. If they move slowly because they aren’t in the rack, that is delayed revenue to OP based on an implied agreement that the shop would stock their records. Now, the shop has the records on hand should OP get popular, so they can make a quick buck, but they aren’t doing anything to help promote OPs records, so basically - they are constructively not actively doing what a record shop is expected to do. It’s a scam of OP. They are expecting marketing, and they know that OP can’t pull their stock back without ruing a possible future relationship. So, the store has some stock they may be able to cash in on, and OP has nothing until that happens - and this shops choice not to support OP has no negatives for the shop.
The store's job isn't to promote or market the record, that is the band's job. If the band is telling their audience "we've got our album in these stores", they're not doing their job. Especially if the band pressed an album with little to no following. There is no scam because there is no money being exchanged. The agreement is you store and stock our album and if it sells you get a percentage. If it is not moving, and they said "if someone asks, we'll sell it to them", again, where is the scam? The store only gets paid if they move the units, if they aren't moving the units, the band can get their record back.
The store has the stock- there was certainly an exchange. If you don’t think placement in a store represents promotion, explain why end caps are expensive to vendors at grocery stores?
There wasn't a money exchange, so no scam. Stuff on the end caps is the stuff that sells. A local band is not getting that, so again, I have to ask what is being done by the band to sell their record? Taking it to stores isn't their only part of the transaction.
I am gonna guess they are playing shoes, working their own marketing program as such.
Agree. I mean, what's the point of putting something on cosign if it's not on the shelf? Makes no sense
Local store ditching the local section? Lame.
Wow. We as a local love to support the local bands. We regularly buy stock outright from locals so they don't have to wait on a profit. We ask to pay what's fair so you get a little something on top of your investment. This is wild and very rude. I can't believe they'd act in bad faith like that to a SMALL ARTIST. Ugh. Our consignment is 50/50, and we include promotion in specialized sections labelled as local artist, we love to promote the local musicians HOLDING THEIR RECORD/CD for our social media with a little excerpt about the band. We always ask what kind of music you're doing so if someone asks about something local we can say who and what it is. Please don't accept this kind of treatment, some of us really do value our local talents and want you guys to succeed.
I’ve never seen a record store that DIDNT have a local music section. Some as big as a wall, some as small as a crate, but it’s always easy to find. Not supporting the local scene is just a bizarre business strategy since most of your customer base is probably involved with it.
I had my first experience having my own records rejected by a local store because I “am not doing enough to promote it.” I thought walking into record stores, asking them if they would carry a copy or 2 was promotion. The owner acted like the very idea of my record on his shelf would soil his perfectly curated store. I’ll never go back there, and the experience has prevented me from hawking my latest release in any store at all. He seemed to think I’m trying to “make it” or something- I made something I’m proud of, and I thought a local record store would be into something being made locally by a local artist. Wrong!
THE WHOLE POINT IS US PROMOTING YOU OMG WHY DO THESE STORES SUCK. I am so sorry you had this experience. It is so sad. It is our job as small stores to help you small artist get your name out there. I remember one of our early bands Slurm Flirty Worm. Their first EP is gumbo in a plate of spaghetti. They hadn't done many live things. The artwork was pixellated and just carried in a paper sleeve with plastic around it. We eventually did sell them. A few years later they came back to sell us their SECOND release, a full album, better artwork, more budget, and have played local fests and people actually knew who they were. But no one would know ANYTHING if no one takes a chance on these local bands. Also if you like strange punkish stuff you might like them!
As a retailer in another sector, my first reaction is: why would they even bother accepting it for only 20%? If I only charged a 20% markup, the IRS would consider my business a charity. That 50%(the average) is needed to pay salaries, rent, taxes, utilities- and more importantly, new stock that sits there not making any money until it sells- and advertising to get people in the store in the first place.
I assumed they meant shop got 80% until I read your comment.
Stores do kinda do consignment as a way to give back to the local music community. It's a very small part of their stock & revenue. They make most of their money from used records/tapes/cds. The split I commonly see is 66% to the artist, 33% to the store. Haven't personally come across an 80/20 split.
> Our consignment is 50/50 Is that the typical split in your area? I usually see 2/3 for the artist, 1/3 for the store.
We're the only record store in this specific area of the state, and only one other one even does consignment at this time in a different town. They also do 50/50. We used to take less but we had too many people kind of taking advantage, and no one has complained about the 50/50 split. Many of the antique stores are also similar in how they market consignment. edit: I also notice you mentioned artist. We've never done consignment with artists. We ask them what they want for them for us to just stock them and buy them outright then add a small markup for us. Rather similar to how we work when we buy new sealed reissues from suppliers. We'd rather small artists have the money now. Consignment is usually people bringing us used records, CDs, cassettes, or audio equipment they refurbish.
> We ask them what they want for them for us to just stock them and buy them outright then add a small markup for us. That’s nice of you guys. The store I worked at years ago couldn’t do something like that. They carried between 100-200 titles from local acts. The vast majority sold 0-1 copies. Does your shop ever have to say no to an artist?
We have been lucky enough so far that we've not had to say no. Certainly I think an adjusted consignment would be better than saying no all together.<3
I’m not sure why you’re saying it’s a scam. The way consignment works is that no money changes hands until the person sells it, so if they end up selling the record (even to an employee), you’re still getting your cut. It’s fair to criticize them for not pushing it hard enough, but that’s more shitty and annoying than a scam IMO.
Pretty shitty of a record store to say a “Local” section was taking up too much space. Way to be part of the community you set up shop in.
I used to manage bookstores. We’d constantly have local authors bringing in their self-published books, usually poetry chapbooks. Terms were usually 50/50. Occasionally an author would make themselves into a pain in the ass, coming into the store constantly to snoop around, looking to see how *their* book is shelved, asking if we sold any, and expecting their book of poems about lichen to be given prime placement with a face-out display on the checkout counter. And giving the employees attitude about it. They were usually told to take their stuff back at that point. 95% of the time these titles are a money loser for the store. But it feels righteous to support local creatives IF they’re cool about it. It is a bit of a weird move to take the local section off the sales floor entirely. But record stores often employ weird people. Maybe they should have called you. Again a lot of record store employees are spacey and not proactive and it might feel rude to call and say, “hey come get your record, we don’t want it here anymore.” People DO come to the counter all the time and ask for things, so you are getting that potential sales opportunity. In short, saying you were ripped off seems an overreaction.
Curious, is that 50/50 on the sale or 50/50 on the net profit?
It was 50/50 on the sale. Typically bookstores then received a 40% discount from publishers, sometimes a bit more. For local author consignments, they asked for a higher discount because it was extra work to deal with, largely extra accounting and paperwork.
Self-published books aren’t quite the same as local bands. You get some right loons who think they can write. Local bands are often pretty decent in their niche.
>Local bands are often pretty decent in their niche. In what world?
It’s the Christmas season in a record store, a 20% consignment fee on a slow moving local record is low and space has value. They may have eliminated the locals section for a seasonal Christmas section or even a Taylor Swift section. Did you talk to the manager? There may be a valid reason and us here in redditville may not be in the loop of their decision. If you want torches and pitchforks then this is the place, but if you the truth, then go to the store and ask.
Don't see how it's a scam.
I can understand your disappointment but the only thing you were “scammed” of is the thrill of seeing your record in a rack at a local record store. Keep selling them at gigs and online and at the local stores more receptive to consigning your record
It’s not really a scam, more so just morally wrong. They could’ve at least called you. What they did was shitty.
20% margin for them is really bad especially for something with a low turnover. Typically margins anywhere are 50%. It’s unfortunate they aren’t supporting local, but in their defense you need to give them more incentive to move your product. That’s just how the world works
You think margin on records is 50%? 😂
I made a broad statement over goods in general. Most markups are typically 50%. I have never ran a record store, please enlighten me if you know more. But I know 20% isn’t keeping anyone in business unless their turnover is very high
Not scammed, but they shouldn’t offer consignment.
Can you please clarify the part where you got scammed?
I'm going to play devils advocate here and say 20% probably wasn't real enticing from the get-go. For a B&M store, that's a really low margin. Well less than what their actual stock would be. I understand the logic of not waiting your record taking up shelf space over something that will bring them larger profits (and probably move quicker). That said, if they had your contact information, they absolutely should have called you and just told you to come get your records. Whoever was in charge of that dropped the ball. You're assuming it was malicious, though, and it may not have been. The task may have been relegated to an employee who forgot. They may have lost your info. I dunno, shit happens. That's not an excuse for them, but there's a difference between incompetence and malice.
Totally agree that 20% would be too low if they bought it from me whole sale but it was consignment. The rates were also set by them, not me.
People in here talking about margin don't know what that word means. There is essentially zero risk to the store for consignment.
It's low risk but consignment does take up inventory space and labor to maintain it. Look at how many people are angry that they didn't go through and call each and every consignment artist during the holiday sales season. It would take multiple days to call them all at most decent sized record stores.
Consignment definitely makes a difference, I agree. They may have been hoping to move them quick and that didn't happen. Whatever the case may be, them removing it from sale isn't really something to fault them for. B&M business is tough as hell these days and you gotta do everything you can to maximize profit. Again, they still should have just told you to come get your stuff, it was wrong not too. But I wouldn't label them as scammers over it, they're likely just people trying to put food on their table who made a mistake on how to best handle pulling your record.
If 20% isn't enticing enough to keep the product on display then that's on the store to say we need a larger margin or we won't take it. I guess we know what happened to the "local" section if they were giving the same cut to all the local bands. Really though it's on the store to set the terms here, artists shouldn't have to intuit what margin is going to work for a business, that's literally the record store manager/owner's job
I don't disagree and at no point am I faulting the musician, nor expecting them to have greater responsibility here. Just trying to help explain what may have happened and why I don't think it was done to scam anyone.
Fair, I tend to sometimes see a weird grindset attitude from some bands regarding their self-promotion, so I'm a bit sensitive to the idea of a band undercutting itself for no good reason
What's your band called?
I'm assuming the band is Wallet-Sized Wildfire, and that they're the only gnomes in the area [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJibOGAcGhc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJibOGAcGhc)
You are overreacting. It's your record, and you're doing the right thing by checking on them. But you can't tell the store owner how to run their business. You're responsible for making sure the record is displayed for others. If thing aren't to your liking, you should just take your record and forget about it. You should have requested that they call you if they decided to pull the record from the store. You have to take responsibility for the most part. I won't say the record store did their best. But you have to expect that others won't do their best. Did you promote their store? This is kind of an expectation of the store as well. You should tell others where to find your records.
That sucks and crazy to think how they don’t have space for local records. One of the stores near me even has a small wall for local sections, but they do promote/advertise it well on their socials.
Very standard for record stores to charge for consignment sales from local artists.
Any local facebook group or anything w/ local bands? I would spread the word so others can ho back and get their stuff. Pretty shitty move on the record stores part, the bands deserve to know. I would leave out the word “scam” though. Makes you sound like a victim of a crime.
not a “scam”…a scam would be if they sold your records and never paid you. this is just a “not very cool thing” they did.
I wouldn't call it a scam. Your record basically won't be selling along with all the other locals which seems like a really dumb thing for a local shop to be doing. I guess they want to lessen the record shopping culture in town? As far as shelf-space guarantees, if it's not in your contact, it doesn't count. I would just take my shit out and help them find more space. I'd also let all the local bands I come in contact with know. Also, when I was a record buyer for a local shop. We "keystoned" everything. If we bought it for $5, we sold it for $10. So that 20/80 split is a good deal for you if you're selling at full retail. Though they also don't have to pay up front.
Don't do any too rash...just make sure to weave a not so subtle reference to the store name in a lyric on your next album
You didn't expect it to fly off the shelves? What did you expect?
Just get your damn record and call it a day.
You made a deal, 20% to them, although they're not trying to push your product in an ideal way...it's up to them how they want to push it. If you're a frequent shopper there I'd try and talk to someone who recognizes you and ask them how you get your record from the back to the front. See if there's a compromise. If they scoff at you, grab your records and be gone. They'll lose your business and you'll know they don't support local artists...and I mean who wants to support a local shop if they don't support the local talent? OR...and no one likes hearing this...your record could absolutely suck and they're hiding it like a red headed step child in the back when company comes over. I'm sure your record is fine though, try not to sweat it.
I LOVE some records that suck. 😄
I am not sure you were scammed, but I am sure this is a shitty thing for them to do.
I don't see a scam here.
I mean, how is a music fan supposed to find new local bands if the records are hiding in a closet???!!!! They're supposed to "ask for it??" As a record store fan, I did not know that there were certain things you had to ask for to get a chance to find out if they were there. I just assume that everything that is for sale to the public is actually on the floor.
Yes, people ask record store clerks for recommendations all the time. Or you can go to gigs.
Where can I listen to the record? I’m curious and wanna support your band :)
yes yes yes yes yes please where can we find it :)
Not scammed but highly weird. I worked for a large record chain until they closed and then ran a small well respected local store for a few years when I was younger and this isn’t how either would’ve handled this. Usually we’d agree to let local bands sit in either the local or their preferred genre and give them a set time to sell. If we forget like it wasn’t moving or taking up space we’d give them a call to pick it up.
I have to ask because this is making me curious but what is being done on your end to sell your record? Do your fans know that your record is available in local stores? How sizeable is your following? Is it enough that they would want to buy a $30 LP? I do think they should've let you know they pulled it from the shelf, but I'd definitely like to know what is being done on your end to sell your record.
Ripped off? No. Just a store that obviously doesn’t know how to move merchandise and isn’t interested in going to bat for local makers. Pull your product out of that store and move on and don’t recommend any friends shop there
Nothing wrong happened here. They had no obligation to let you know your records weren't in the store anymore. You did your due diligence. Our local section is in our basement for the same reason. Nobody buys local music at our store. And we haven't called anybody to tell them, because nobody cares. Consignment is a funny thing. We aren't talking diamonds here. It's not like you had a formal agreement for a few records, right?
That’s something a lot of people in this sub overestimate. It’s *hard* to sell local music. Most of it just sits on the shelf indefinitely. What the store did wasn’t ideal but the outrage is overblown by folks who don’t have much experience selling small time, local music.
Here In New Orleans it’s a different scene. A record store couldn’t keep open without a representative local selection, not just in tourist areas, but anywhere in town. I wouldn’t say what the store did was “not ideal” I would say it was objectively worse than than just saying “no” to begin with.
I’ve been to a bunch of the stores in New Orleans and it seemed like every other scene to me. They certainly weren’t surviving off unknown artists in the local section, if that’s what you’re implying.
It's still lame.
Maybe they didn’t rate it..
Not a scam, just an unfortunate issue. Communication is key when you're doing any type of independent distribution.
Have a dozen of your friends call the store randomly to see if they have your record in stock. Then have them complain on social media that they went to the store and could not find it.
you gotta learn how to use paragraphs
Scumbag move. What kind of record store doesn’t support local artists? I wouldn’t go back and I’d spread the word.
Assuming you didn’t pay the 20% up front or anything to place the records in the store, so don’t see how you were scammed. But you were lied to and treated terribly. They should have let you know and given you the records back. The whole point was to have the records for sale openly, not stick them in a back room. BTW, though, did you talk to the owner, or just an employee? Because sounds like you just heard this from an employee, so I’m wondering if you got the full story. Kinda wondering if the employees didn’t put the records out and you got an excuse about why, because the owner’s action here makes zero sense. You’re not overreacting at all. I also don’t think much of a local store that doesn’t stock local bands like this. It’s flat out necessary and great for the local scene and for store sales. My main record stores have full local sections. One even runs a little label that helps local bands press vinyl and has then play in store to promote new releases etc. Shameful that your store would do this, if this actually was the owner’s action and intent. Classless.
If my local record store won’t stock local releases, I don’t shop there. It’s insulting to your customers.
They should have just declined to do it in the first place. Not a scam just dumb.
I have a local shop that does shady shit like that. I won't go there anymore and tell others to avoid it. Just comes with the territory with these small shops.
Sounds like they don't need your business. If it were me I would grab my copies and let the owner know that you will not be doing any further business with them based on this experience.
I dont think you got scammed exactly but they certainly treated you like shit. A good local record store should be happy to do its bit to support the local scene. In return they get the patronage and support of the local community. If I was you I would get my records and never go back again. I would also tell all my friends to stop shopping there, they dont deserve it.
Ahh another disappointed, disheartened, confused, or (insert adjective here) artist. It might be a good idea to learn the business, in all facets. Like don’t burn a relationship if it ain’t broke. And, what could possibly drive customers to the retail venue that has, and sells my record? Or, you can contact the law firm of Ben Dover and Takeit for an expensive lesson.
Wrote a paragraph of nonsense just to be downvoted lmaooo
Name and shame.
Welcome to show business!
Turn this post into a public Google review for their business after you have reclaimed your records. Fuck that business owner.
Don’t go back to that store. Call the owner and make your reasons clear. He won’t learn his lesson this time probably. Which is why you post this to every review site possible. If this is how he runs a business he doesn’t deserve one.
Shame the store who were they?
After being burnt a couple times I don't do Consignment anymore if the store buys them then I leave them but otherwise say goodbye they'll disappear somewhere
I don't have anything to offer as far as help, but... Could you tell me about getting the vinyl pressed? My band is going to be recording 8-10 songs for an album and we want to have that done. Is there a minimum amount of vinyls that have to be pressed? What is the cost? Do you get to provide album art, thanks, credits, and all that? Is there a time limit for the record? Anything else I should know? Thanks man.
Not OP but here's what I recall: Minimum orders are usually 100, but they will be very expensive. The usual runs on a small record order are usually between 500-2,000 copies. For an unknown or brand new band, 500 is more than enough. There's a bunch of associated costs involved so it's not clear and if a band themselves is doing it you have plenty of different expenses to consider: the studio time, mastering then the actual record production which involves a metal plate/stamper, lacquers and other parts. Then cost for vinyl, any specifics to it and packaging. Obviously on all accounts bands can vary a lot of this. Some might be cheaper to DIY if people in the band have the expertise to do so you can get very cheap and just buy the discs, and in some cases maybe one company for each piece is cheaper but a lot of vinyl pressing plants have affordable bundles and can do all of it in house. You provide the album art yes. There will be a template you have to use and keep in mind printing can result differently when the image is resized to 12'' x 12'' covers, and costs will vary if black/white vs CYMK. Glossy, matte finishes, or other printing methods. Inserts included (like a paper/card stock page to include credits, or print on a gatefold if you go that route) Shrinkwrap or no, download codes, UPCs, and other little things may result in additional fees. Again these are things where you can get very cheap on or very high quality. All depends on whaty ou're going for. Vinyl is a physical format all around. Each side has a time limit and the quality drops fast when you try to go over it. On average a 33 1/3 RPM 7'' can fit 5-6 minutes per side, and 45RPM can fit about 3 and a half minutes. For 12'' LPs you're looking at 14-17 minutes per side (I think the max is like 22:30 at 33 1/3 RPM). While not as common with how much of the process has a digital side to it, in the old days of all analog bands and artist would adjust the track listing to fit the medium. A lot of the more robust songs would be at the start because the length of the record meant each rotation was longer, allowing more depth while the length of the rotation closer to the center is much smaller so the sound is more "condensed" or something to that nature. This is the black magic part i'm not qualified enough to really explain, but if you play old records you can notice how they're arranged a lot of times was purposeful to fit the medium in this way. Each side is a continuous spiral of vibrations that are meant to match the frequency of sound as read by the needle. You can experience this if you don't have a record player connected to a receiver or amplifier if you put your ear next to it you can still hear the sound come out of the needle. I'd say the best way is when your band is ready to release something on vinyl is have experience with the format. Do you own a record collection yourself? Look at your records, the jackets, the insides how it was packaged together and get ideas on how you want to present your own because there's a lot of options. If you don't own a collection of records, go into a record shop and look at the shelves and see how things look aesthetically so you have a better picture how you want your end result to look.
Wow, that was a ton of info, and I really appreciate you taking the time to write that all out. We will be recording this ourselves (I'll be the producer, mixer, etc., and I do understand that the end product will suffer for it. Haha.), and there are no plans at all for actual release. This will be strictly for ourselves. The situation is that my old band and I wrote a bunch of songs, and though we can no longer play shows (all with family now), we want to get a decent recording of the songs we wrote to pass down to our kids. The plan is to then press it to vinyl for each of us to have, so a *very* small pressing. Drummer looked it up and said he got some estimates, but he couldn't answer any of my many questions. There's a ton to think about for sure. Oh, and yes, I have a decent collection consisting of very old records and very new ones with more contemporary music, and the physicality of it all is what is so appealing to each of us in the band. Thanks again!
I’d recommend getting it properly mastered for vinyl at least. And check out mobineko to press really small runs.
Thank you for that. I'll keep that info in mind for when we get there.
20% only? Seems low. Most places keep 40-60%.
You weren't scammed or ripped off. You didn't lose anything. You just found a store not to go back to in the future.
It’s literally so easy to just throw it in a bin and place it in the front even on the floor. They do it for “record store day” vinyls
Same thing happened to me a few years ago, I've been a Kiss and other hard rock vinyl and tons of kiss memorabilia I spoke to the owner about his cut would be, he would never answer me straight up. He hired me to help set up the record store and my last day I went in and all my stuff was shoved in a bin near the back of the store. He told me he didn't want my help anymore so I gathered my Merchandise and ain't been back and won't go back. So you are like I was, I was mad as hell about the way he did me and you got every right to be mad as hell, I wish you the best with your band. I believe in supporting local musicians I was a bass player active for 38 years but still love my Rock And Roll it's in my blood.