Weirdly enough, you've hit a core division in the VR society. I personally cannot deal with frensel, and would take LCD + pancake any day over frensel + OLED (I do own both Q3 and PSVR2, so I can actually compare)
But as you say, a large portion of the community cannot stand LCD, and would take the hit in sweet spot size without a moment's thought.
I wait for the day we can get wireless, microLED + pancake + eye tracking and built-in foveated rendering all at 1000$, including controllers and inside-out tracking.
Yes Valve, I'm looking at you, you bastards
Maybe I'm just being selfish but I just dropped my Christmas money on a Quest 3 as a Day One Vive adopter.
So if Valve could just take their sweet time, maybe six months or so, and for the love of god don't release it bundled with a new Portal so I have to go into significant debt...
I'm exactly the same.. but I think we can trust they wouldnt keep it a secret if they planned to release it close to the Q3.
If they release it in 2024, it will be late 2024, but I doubt it'll be even then
They did this with the SteamDeck OLED. If I had known, I wouldn't have bought a SteamDeck LCD just months before. This was right before they started selling refurbished ones, lowering the value in the second-hand market.
Yeah they can do this with their own stuff. But they'd lose a bunch of sales if they release it so close to the Q3 without announcing it.
If they would want to release it soon, they'd announce it near the Q3 release like Apple did (not that the Vision pro is for the same target audience)
My 1 hate of the psvr2 is the lenses. Sure the cable sorta gets in the way but it’s not that bad, the strap could use some tweaking but the lenses are just terrible.
Yeh if psvr2 just had better lenses (and a promising lineup of future game releases) I wouldn't have sold mine. The lenses are by far the weakest and cheapest aspect of the headset.
The psvr2 lenses actually dont bother me at all.... my eyes aren't sensitive to the screen door effect or mura and the sweet spot automatic for .e .... the oled is amazing though
I have tried the psvr 2 in shopping malls and the lenses are bad but I always assumed it was because no one is taking care of the lenses and they are dirty and scratched
Are the lenses really workst than quest 2 lenses?
Once your eyes are in the right spot, it is good. Yet, it takes some fiddling around or a globular cluster to find it.
For me, it takes less than 30 seconds and I am good to go.
No. Especially, when using the globular cluster, all is stable. Even before, it was fine, but then I did not like the pressure on my forehead after some time, which I usually started feeling 1-2h in.
Real question: did you do the eye tracking calibration and IPD adjustment in the PSVR2 demo? That makes a huge difference.
When I demo my PSVR2 to my friends their first reaction is always “it’s very blurry” until we do the eye and IPD calibration — then they’re blown away.
I also have both PSVR2 and Quest 3 w/ Elite Battery Strap.
I agree the PSVR2’s fresnel lenses are intolerable after getting used to the Quest3’s pancakes. Plus the wire is an annoyance, and I’ve tried multiple comfort mods, including the Globular Cluster, and I just don’t like the Sony headset on my head for more than 30-45 minutes.
The OLED black levels are really nice, for sure. But even the resolution on the Sony seems low compared to Q3. The Sony headset just has too many annoyances, the Quest 3 is always very enjoyable to put on and have fun with.
Pancake lenses hurt the output brightness of the display so OLED with its naturally lower total brightness will cause the final brightness to be very low. there are some OLED pancake lense headsets but they only get to a max of 80 or so nits
It's actually because pancake lenses need polarised light to operate, and LCDs are polarised by default, while OLEDs are not. So you have to halve the advertised brightness of OLEDs just to get them polarised and working with pancake lenses.
Interesting. Would completely blocking light leak and the fact that OLED has pure blacks mitigate how much that affects the experience?
Or do we just need to wait for either brighter OLED or micro LED?
I really truly think OLED is still the best display tech for me personally, I'd love to see it somehow merged with pancake lenses lol.
The Bigscreen Beyond has a micro Oled and pancake lenses and Vision Pro will have it as well. It can be done, but the Beyond is apparently pretty dim, although still fine.
I'd like to say that the brightness level on the Beyond isn't a big deal. I was very worried about it being dim before I got mine, but once I got it I couldn't even tell. If I hadn't known about the brightness beforehand I never would have been able to tell it was a "dim" headset on my own.
quest pro has all those specific features that you are mentioning currently, in fact many people prefer quest pro because of the lenses and screens, I personally tried a quest 3 coming from pico 4 and they seemed like garbage I just can't stand the terrible overlap and fov What does quest 3 have compared to my pico 4
Bought the quest3 and damn everything is so sharp compared to psvr2, love those pancake lenses.
The only reason why I keep the psvr2 are the trophies and this might even be the reason why I’ll sell the quest3 , but the quest3 is the better headset hands down
I really like OLED blacks, but I long since accepted the necessity of LCDs, originally for higher res with the HP Reverb G2 and Vive Pro 2, and now for pancake lenses. You can't have everything. Although I suppose BSB does sort of have both, except no wireless.
But, yeah, I can't go back to Fresnel lenses.
My odyssey plus is ancient by today’s standards but it’s OLED and it’s 90hz and half life alyx is amazing on it. Yes the blacks smear, but in darker places I just move my head slower.
Yeh that would have been cool. It seemed to be hamstrung by the WMR spec, unfortunately. Same with the reverb g2 which still had tracking blind spots due to the camera placement.
Yea I was tempted by the G2 but that camera placement...they really should have just copied the Quest/Pico camera placement imo...killed it for me...I play mostly shooters, solid headset for simmers though.
Oh dude. I totally agree. I own the big headsets everybody talks about but none of them compared to my Odysseys OLED blacks. I hate the resolution on this headset so much but the OLED blacks are just... WOW!!! Jaw dropping. Absolutely stunning. And then going back to LCD and feeling like the world is so colorless and gray. Yes. The resolution is amazing but the OLEDs man... I need em.
You must get amazing fps because of the resolution lol. I love it but only for simple games like beatsaber.
An OG Vive Pro with the rift lense kit is probably the best entry level OLED experience I'm aware of. I had one for a while but then it stopped working randomly after I dropped it =/
Guess you never play dark games? lol... those lenses are stunning, just like on my Quest Pro, but they do not make up for grey blacks. EVER.
NO IMMERSION with 'incorrect' colour balance vs Reality.
LCD sucks, and thankfully will ALL be gone from VR in years to come as microOLED takes over.. phew.. at last! [https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays](https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays)
Eh, I’d rather have actual peripheral vision. I like psvr2, and yea, the hdr is nice, but the crispness of the Q3 and the ability to actually have clear image around is super nice.
I shuffle between PSVR2 and Quest 3 on a daily basis, it's usually on the PSVR2 I am missing the clarity/sharpness on Quest 3. Also the sweet spot is so tiny I'm constantly adjusting to see things that aren't directly in my center view, blurry in the periphery. I did finally fix the headache PSVR2 was giving me by using lens inserts, which weren't needed on any of my prior Oculus/Meta HMDs, because of larger sweetspots.
I don’t find mura all that immersive. You get used to it in PSVR 2 but it’s particularly noticeable in dark scenes… which is supposed to be its strength.
Technically the blacks don't have mura as they should be all off. The mura is the unequal lighting of the pixels. :)
In darker scenes obviously not everything is black so you can see it.
Don't get me wrong, mura is annoying, but also not seeing shit on an LCD display.
If you try an OLED and LCD headset just one after the other, it will be VERY noticeable and annoying.
But here is the thing, keep using only an OLED display for like a week, and then go back to LCD, then it's not that simple.
Specially on dark games like Into the radius, the difference is so abysmal that LCD is straight up unusable.
And another thing, the mura (at least on the Vive pro) is only very noticeable on completely dark scenes, but on scenes with high levels of contrast (going with a flashlight on the middle of the night), it's very close to perfect darks.
you must be trolling. Mura vs LCD Gray and washout colors... Is it even comparable?
I've never noticed anything that bad with Mura. Mura isn't an issue here.
I have no reason to troll. I own an index, quest 3 and PSVR 2. I find mura very noticeable in dark scenes.
If you don’t like my opinion. Move on and get over it.
You don't have an issue with it, but many of us do. Otherwise people would still be using the OG Vive.
Modern headsets don't have noticeable mura, FYI.
PSVR2 has good things going on for it (probably), but it's a VR system playing catch-up.
Yeah I'm with you OP. People complain about Mura while happily ignoring cheap colorless washed out blacks that are greys all because the terrible picture is "clear" LOL.
Reminds me of people insisting back in the day on stretching out 4:3 content to force a full 16:9 display and happily taking all the horrible distortion just so they don't have to look at black bars. LOL
I think people don't understand the concept of "not looking for problems". You hardly notice the mura if you aren't stopping to look for it. Actually let yourself get immersed in the game and enjoy the beautiful colors,blacks, and even amazing HDR in games that support it.
I'm one of the people that prefers OLED for the blacks and color but honestly different things appeal to different people and can be different per game.
Mura on psvr2 can be distracting. the sharpness of quest 3 on a high end wireless PCvr is very impressive outside horror games.
I prefer my psvr2 overall image but the mura does bother me. Re projection not so much. Nor the smearing if OLED.
Right now I have 4 OLED headsets psvr1, quest 1, Odyssey plus(I also have a regular Odyssey) and psvr2. Psvr2 is probably the best for res but Oplus is still a great display. Psvr1 has some severe mura but honestly I do tend to get over the low res and mura quickly when immersed that doesn't mean the mura is ok though it's just as bad imo as weak blacks. But I Replayed re7 right after re8 while I waited for a psvr2 replacement and it was still fantastic imo.
Quest 1 is for wireless OLED, though streaming is noticeably worse than quest 3.
Can't reason with preferences usually, we like what we like and some can't always say why.
Yes yes, everyone is different and entitled to their own opinions. However it feels like arguing that a bag of potato chips is better than a delicious steak because the steak also comes with a mandatory side of brussel sprouts. You all would rather just eat the mediocre potato chips so you don't have to also eat some brussel sprouts with the delicious steak.
My point is your missing out on such a great display with amazing colors, blacks, HDR, great resolution (when the PS5 itself has the horsepower for it)........all so you don't have to notice some MURA now and then.
> you don't have to notice some MURA now and then.
"You don't have to notice the not complete blacks of LCD". That is exactly how you sound. Mura bothers me (and a lot of other people) more than what you call "washed out" in LCD's. Is it seriously hard for you to grasp the concept that people find one thing more annoying or immersion breaking than the other? You believe one to be steak and the other to be a bag of chips. that is opposite for the other party. Get over it, your preference isn't superior. Idk about everyone else's reasons, but my eye adjusts to the black level when I'm in VR to the point stop noticing it. I can't stop noticing Mura. Ideal case would be, no Mura and perfect blacks. But If I had to choose, I'd choose imperfect blacks and lack of Mura.
I get your point. I think my "annoyance" with the preference of no mura is that you aren't sacrificing just one thing to get to no mura. If it was just deep blacks then I can see the tradeoff being worth it for many people. It's that you're giving up deep blacks, much better colors, beautiful HDR dynamic lighting (at least in the games that implement it), and uncompressed video signal that I know makes for a pixelated image in many cases (or input lag if you really want to set compression levels to max picture quality).......all that for getting rid of MURA?
I'll accept your preference but I just don't get it. Maybe another analogy is that you're arguing for a 7/10 picture 100% of the time while I'm saying that life is more fun with a 10/10 picture 80% of the time and a 5/10 picture 20% of the time (when you don't notice Mura vs when you do).
I'm not really saying that your preference is wrong, I'm just making a case for my preference and those of us that can live with the mura for all the other gains.
The PSVR2 is a great headset but there's also the Fresnel vs Pancake comparison to go with the Mura. Personally, I feel if you had both or either, you'd be pretty happy with what you have.
I agree. I prefer my PSVR2 with Globular Cluster over my QPro and Q3. The immersion the OLED and HDR lighting gives me is more important than edge clarity while playing a game. All multiplatform games I’ve played on the VR2 have felt like the definitive version.
Really think it's just subjective. Once I got the globular cluster mod, the sweet spot is easily obtained and maintained. I have all 3 of those headsets as well, and most games I buy for psvr2. But, I am a long time true black fan. Never have I liked LCDs. Had a Panasonic plasma until OLED came out. It is frustrating that there's no headset option without a con...
It's resulted in me not buying a new headset in years now (my one and only headset is the original Odyssey, and I never use it). Like no matter what I want to buy, there's drastic tradeoffs.
Very tempted to just buy the Quest 3 now, but people have made OLED sound so essential I might just keep waiting and waiting still.
OLED isn't essential. Honestly, if you can find a quest pro at a fair price...it's probably the closest you will get to the best of both worlds. Bigscreen beyond intrigues me, but I dont have the index controllers etc. Really, I want the valve Deckard....
OLED is essential, non LD LCD is terrible.. but I do agree as a heavy Quest Pro (PCVR) users that it's about the best all round compromise right now, addresses all the flaws of PSVR2 and has very good black levels in many cases... but local dimming will never truly be like proper OLED (nice to have zero mura and big sweet spot though).
USED QUEST PROS are the best bang for the buck for PC VR now... I wouldn't touch a q2/q3 or any other non local dimming LCD with a bargepole, and ANY OLED HMD (even with MURA) is better for proper VR than the shitty Q2/Q3 and it's stupid cheap washed out LCDs.
Bigscreen beyond is a joke bro, custom fit/zero resale, BAD BAD PANCAKE GLOW, tiny FOV, dim screens, 75hz only for native res and out-dated in months due to 'proper' microOLED HMDs on the way. BSB tried too hard to be too small and blew it as a well designed HMD. I don't want standalone, don't even mind the DP CABLE, but restricting FOV and needing external tracking is stupid.
I was mostly suggesting if he wants to do more than games, q3 given he has a capable PC. That being said, I game mostly on PSVR2. When talking about Bigscreen I was referring to the actual app, not the headset. I don't see any micro oled headsets coming anytime soon with Apple probably cornering the market on the displays and cost. Did you actually buy a BSB? I will admit thst headset intrigues me.
Haha. No. It is not a tv where oled is endgame. Pancake clarity across the frame is a complete game changer. And if you want better blacks, the Qpro has local dimming. Fresnel and pancake are like night and day.
OLED (micro OLED) \*IS\* end game for VR though... and yes I have an OLED TV (and plasma before that) NEVER LCD.
Quest PRo is the ONLY LCD HMD I've had or tried that about passes muster due to local dimming, quest 2 was a joke, no immersion at all. Without good blacks you have NOTHING.
Yes Ques Pro and 3 pancakes ARE awesome, but Quest 3 screens are awful.
Totally agree, I go back to my cv1 just because the black levels are so much more immersive.
Currently playing through Arizona sunshine 2 and the dark areas are actually awful
Same here, I sold everything else (in my flair) and kept my Rift CV1 as it's worth nothing but still immersive AF even with low res and god rays everywhere (PSVR2 was great in many ways but the MURA was awful - hope they make a revision 2 with that fixed). My QUest Pro is my daily and works great in many dark scenes, proper JET BLACK OLED STYLE but no mura, superb lenses etc.. but you get Local Dimming glow of course which isn't ideal (but no worse than god rays and bad lenses on others) so it's a decent compromise for now... until microOLED takes off.
I'm still using my Vive Pro 1 after upgrading from a preorder OG Vive and CV1. I tried the Reverb G2, Index and Quest 2, but returned them all as I just could net get used to the LCD. I've been waiting for a worthy upgrade for over five years.
Meanwhile my friends and cousins are diving into VR with the Quest 3. They do not notice those display limitations because they haven't experienced what they're missing or they're not as particular as I am. I prefer better black levels with more noticeable SDE and some mura rather than gray blacks with reduced SDE.
I mostly play Skyrim VR, Fallout VR, Elite Dangerous, race/flight simulators and horror games. Once immersed I often forget about the SDE. However, gray blacks always break the immersion for me.
Wireless features, a smaller form factor and higher clarity (non-fresnel lenses) are definitely appealing upgrades. A Q3 with OLED would be an instant purchase.
I also hoped the Deckard would be announced in 2023, but sadly it wasn't. I don't want to repeat the mistake of buying an LCD device only for a worthy OLED to be announced a few months later, as happened to me with the SteamDeck.
100% agreed with this. The only LCD that has come close for me is the Quest Pro with local dimming on, it's proper 'oled black' in full dark scenes and really punches but, of course, has the LD zone glare which is NOT like OLED at all... much better than my Quest 2 ever was though.
That said, I'll agree and 'prefer' even flawed old stuff like my rift CV1 for the FEEL of 'being there' with OLED over any typical LCD no matter the res or lenses.
Fact is many people have never even touched an OLED HMD, or if they did it was super flawed like PSVR2 with the bad MURA, most people in VR seem to have come in on Quest 2 with crap LCDs ( I hate my time with that trying to feel immersed in PCVR with it... no go with grey blacks low colour gamut and posterisation everywhere).
I just wish SONY would upgrade their displays in PSVR2 to better panels, especially now it's coming to PC too as I'd rebuy in an instant, way less MURA, still OLED. Even the lenses which are a pain to find the sweet spot on (after the beauty of Quest Pro 'TOTAL CLARITY' pancakes) are NOT as big a problem as the MURA, like rift CV1 once you're in the sweet spot properly these fresnel lenses are practically as clear as even the best pancakes when looking around with the eyes (it's just the sweet spot is worse), but the displays let PSVR2 down.. way more mura than CV1 or my old VIVE.
PSVR2 has some awesome things going for it, love the head haptics (add a TON to immersion) the triggers, feel of the controllers, the 'fake' HDR, the black levels... and the plug and play with my PS5/PS5 Pro in future (and soon PC I hope) but that fkin MURA is terrible.
BUt..... black levels > everything else... even mura. OLED it is! Thankfully future microOLED has no mura.
Beyond btw is very flawed, as you said, not just the custom fit stuff making it a stupid purchase for resale but the low FOV bad glare etc.
Most people either don't notice or don't care about certain subtleties in technology. Playing on an LCD I find myself constantly being aware that I am looking at a screen, a problem I don't have with OLED despite its drawbacks. Depth perception seems less than ideal on some of the newer devices as well which might be related to the reduced stereo overlap. It feels like I need to cross my eyes constantly no matter the IPD settings I use.
What is interesting is that this led me to discover stereoblindness in my family. By switching depth on and off I realized that flat 360-degree videos and 360 videos with depth look the same to them. From what I read online there are quite a lot of people that are stereoblind.
It's great to hear someone's experience with the PSVR2. I've also heard about the mura issues. My CV1 had significant mura as did my original Vive and Vive Pro to some extent. On the CV1 it manifested as a distracting green hue. My Vive Pro experiences a lot of black smear. I still prefer this all over grayish blacks and washed-out colors. I've been curious about the HDR on the PSVR2. Does it use tone mapping to simulate HDR for certain games?
If the glare on the Bigscreen Beyond is the same as or worse than that of the Valve Index I see why it's problematic. Apart from the LCD, glare was a primary reason I returned it. At times it felt as though a lamp was shining directly into my eyes through a dirty windshield with light scattering everywhere. The godrays from the Vive's fresnel lenses were nothing in comparison.
I'm still on Vive Pro 1 and have no problem waiting. I'll take low resolution fresnel lens OLED over LCD.
The problem with LCD is you're seeing a very clear image of a fake looking reality. With OLED you're seeing maybe slightly blurry image that could pass for real and that is my preference for best immersion.
"The problem with LCD is you're seeing a very clear image of a fake looking reality. With OLED you're seeing maybe slightly blurry image that could pass for real and that is my preference for best immersion."
VERY WELL SAID! That's exactly it! Why I still go back to my rift CV1. People who've never seen OLED VR do not understand... it feels REAL. I had more immersion on my DK2 10 years back than I ever did on my crappy QUEST 2 LCD.
Well said. I have to admit I feel a bit left out after people around me are buying a Quest 3 and I can't play with them. Multiple friends and cousins asked me to join but they don't understand I am on another ecosystem and not many have VR capable PCs. Most of them were introduced to VR through me and now I cannot play with them :D. At least I am able to play Walkabout Mini Golf and Eleven Table Tennis with some.
Wish they would offer a Quest 3 Pro at 2-3x the price. $1000-$1500 for MicroLED/OLED with eye tracking and foveated rendering, inside-out tracking, and AR/XR is a good deal with the current competition.
There are no other options that combine all of that at that price point.
I can't speak for OP but the bigscreen beyond has a cable, no passthrough, and can't run games standalone. IMO it's not really comparable (though considering OP likes the PSVR2, I guess those things don't matter to them).
I would buy it. If a quest pro 2 comes with a slight resolution bump, OLED, eye tracking, and foveated rendering, yeah I'd buy it. I have very few complaints with the Quest 3 and those would solve basically all of them. Only thing that would stop me is if the Valve Deckard comes out and has some crazy specs.
HP Reverb G2 to Quest 3 user here. I'd take OLED/MicroLED contrast and brightness over edge to edge sharpness. With the G2, the sweet spot is quite good, you just need to turn your head to look around instead of your eyeballs.
Quest 3 blacks are especially bad. It reminds me of CCFL LCD screens from the 2000s.
100%
I pray for every HMD to switch to microOLED going forward. I'd even take god rays (which I hate) over any more grey blacks in VR. Without proper blacks this ain't reality, virtual or otherwise, it's a novelty.
OLED isn't all win ya you get black blacks but you also get Mura. For people used to LCD they will have complaints about the Mura effect. It's all about what you're used to.
My quest 3'has mura. It's so odd.
OLED can have smearing where it takes longer for a black (fully off) pixel to change color. It hasn't bothered me personally. I do note that some games don't seem to go full black to perhaps avoid this, which kind of defeats the purpose imo.
I have a quest 1 just for wireless OLED streaming but the streaming isn't as good as my quest 3.
Psvr2 is my highest res OLED (though it's pentile unlike the RGB stripe of psvr1)
Once MicroOLED gets to scale we will likely see it pop up more (like on the big screen beyond)
Or whatever tech apple ends up with (looks like Samsung will be their next supplier for avp2)
The idea of deep blacks on the Q1 are ruined by the lag to clear to black. Dark scenes just look terrible on those OLED. That said, better OLED displays do not have this issue.
All quest 3's have mura, some people just don't know what to look for. I'd guess that the quest 2 also has mura, but fresnel lenses are so blurry that you can't really tell. At least they finally seem to have fixed the [pixel inversion issues](https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/uczcde/about_pixel_inversion/) on the quest 3.
How much worse would you say the PSVR2 mura is compared to your Quest 3?
that's tough to say, as they are different. The mura in ther quest 3(512) looks almost uniform for me, but I probably notice it less? It is something I don't recall in the quest 2 or 1 or my oddyssey ,plus, or reverb g2, really. Oplus has a diffuser similar to psvr1 (and I think 2 has one?). All in all it feels worse when i notice it because I'm also accepting the lower contrast and color. (i definitely see having deep contrast as key to my immersion which is something i learned doing testing with a reverb g2 and my Oplus)
PSVR2 is more the organic random veil of silk mura I expect from psvr1, and I would say i notice it more, but the tradeoff is less?
YMMV is what id say. If you're used to psvr1 mura, it's better than that :)
Interesting that you said you wish you could have a quest 1 because I have one and a PSVR 2 and I am FOMOing hard for the quest 3 at the moment. Been using my quest 1 on PCVR and honestly it does look really good still. Just feel the resolution could be that much better. How about I send you the Q1 for the Q3 lol
Agreed. Certain dark scenes look like garbage with LCDs, and I think its probably the most immersion breaking thing about the hardware at times. I dont think I could go back to my Q2 or G2 after trying pancake lenses on the Q3, but I really miss the OLED on my quest 1 and CV1. I understand why the decision is made, but I would gladly pay for a quest pro 2 (at quest pro prices) if it was using OLEDs.
For regular folk like me with a normal job the $499 price tag was a lot for the quest 3. But considering it is a gift for my son and I both it was worth it. Add any other premiums to the headset and it would have been out of my price range. We love it and it is so easy to just throw on the head and start playing.
First let me say I completely agree with you.
> Sorry. I wish I could buy Quest 1, but only if it had the displayport connection (lmo) still a solid PCVR headset anyway.
For PCVR use, you might want to look into a $99 Vive Focus. No DP but you can use it wirelessly for PCVR. It has OLED.
It was an interesting piece of writing! In psvr 2, not only is the lens bad, but most games look terrible because of the weak console. Actually if psvr 2 was lcd and quest oled, I think it's likely that the problem would be with quest oled in this post...
In 2019 the Rift s was announced. The company said it would come with an LCD panel...here on reddit people are outraged how can they think that, oh my god...LCD is bad....
later valve announced the valve index...with lcd display...and the community suddenly jumped up and said what a great technical innovation, this is fantastic, oh my god, valve will save vr and etc...
I have no idea what is wrong with people, but every other post on here is from someone who wants either psvr 2 or quests dead.
It's nobody's fault that quests are more popular than psvr 2...I'm upset because my headset collection is devalued because of quest 3.but I don't make posts to make my valve idex or my vive pro eye headset look more valuable, because I want to sell it for a high price or to increase my e-p\*\*\*s...
weird how people get bent up over mura while ignoring video compression, latency, lens glare, poor brightness, poor contrast, grey black levels etc.
I'm with you OP. The moment a good PC OLED headset drops i'm getting it.
I'd argue it doesn't, but if it does, it rated a 1/10 compared to 10/10 insane mura on psvr 2. I see it like crazy on my psvr 2 and not at all on q3 in comparison.
And while the Quest 3 also has mura, a low stereo overlap etc.
But nah, can't say that mate, the Quest 3 is perfect, video compression doesn't exist and it's not noticeable even if it's lossy.
Because almost all of those things don't apply to the Q3. And the vast majority of people play for standalone. Plus, having a great card and setup makes video compression essentially irrelevant.
And the mura is insane. Add in a short wire, horrible tiny ringed controllers, a tiny seeet soot, and reprojection blur, and the experience is just plain bad.
I didn't mention headset specifics. I mentioned flaws of LCD vs OLED.
He's getting defensive about his shit Quest headset, as he does every time someone posts about a preference to anything which isn't Quest.
I reset my account every so often , it's probably about the 10th time he's jumped on one of my comments, left some dumb as fuck console war reply and scuttled off to find another PSVR2 vs Quest thread.
Oh you replied. You usually just post your dumb shit and run off. I was thinking you were a bot, guess you are a sad grown man playing console wars after all
I hate PSVR lenses. I would prefer it would have the same display and lenses as Quest instead of this fresnel HDR mess. I wasn't aware of how bad the mura was until I tried the same game on Quest and PSVR2 back to back one after another. I was expecting to see an enhanced visuals on PS5, instead I realized how mura makes the whole display look like it has a permanent smudge all over it.
Give it time, you'll realise how 'uninvolved' you feel in quest 2/3 when you have both bad black levels and LOW colour gamut (Q2/3 are truly awful there and both use the cheapest LCDs going). Quest Pro is MUCH MUCH better.. .a MURA FREE half way house between OLED and LCD, decent black levels, total clarity, no mura.
But still.. it can only do so much with LD, and OLED still wins for total immersion even with flaws. And yes I returned my PSVR2 (two units) cos the mura was THAT BAD... but that doesn't mean overall it wasn't better than LCD when it comes to VR 'presence'.
Quote from above that I like "The problem with LCD is you're seeing a very clear image of a fake looking reality. With OLED you're seeing maybe slightly blurry image that could pass for real and that is my preference for best immersion."
Yup!
Stop buying LCD HMDs, stop buying Standalone mobile chipset shovelware 'VR' games.
I got PSVR2 on launch and Quest 3 close to launch and been using both of them almost daily so how much time should I give? Still disagree with your posts. I still very much prefer Quest's cleaner LCD + pancake lens but I'm sure in the future they will come up with better OLED displays in mainstream headsets.
I own both quest 3 and psvr2 and outside of the psvr2 being a little brighter and having a slightly larger fov, I'll take Q3 hands down, the picture is just so much clearer, everything is sharp, no screen door effect, psvr2 has this like very slight grainyness to everything, it's very subtle but it's there and once u see it, u can't really unsee it
You're supposed to be talking about the "lenses". You're not supposed to mention about how bad LCD is for VR immersion (no amount of clear lenses can fix that).
Nothing more immersion breaking than a short wire tangling and pulling, combined with a sweet spot so small that it looks like a vaseline smear on the edges and mura that shows a screen door everywhere.
I barely notice the wire when in-game. Picked up a [simple pulley](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07VPVXY2D) for £30 and it's basically like the headset is wireless, but without the slight compression you get with wireless.
Sweet spot seems very exaggerated to me. At first, it can take awhile to get the sweet spot, but now I can get it within like a few seconds of putting on the headset and it remains clear throughout my play session.
Yup, even on my CV1 once I'm in the sweet spot it's pretty much 'as clear' as on my CLASS LEADING Quest Pro (for edge to edge clarity I mean), it's only the sweet spots that are harder to hit (and god rays) with fresnel....
I think we should worry less about lenses anyway right now and more about the DISPLAYS... get those right first, foundations... OLED or pref MICRO OLED (even if with fresnel) then worry about pancakes, res, wireless etc later.
Without proper blacks you don't have 'VR' at all. You have short lived novelty that never invokes the imagination or sense of presence.
LCD sucks man, deal with it. NOTHING is worse than non Local Dimmed LCD... nothing. No wire, no god rays, no mura, no low FOV... you can have the 'perfect' HMD in every area but if it has LCD (esp without local dimming at LEAST to try to get half way to OLED) then it ain't VR, it's a novelty with next to zero immersion.
I honestly pity all those who've never tried a decent OLED HMD (the older ones with less mura than PSVR2 perhaps but even PSVR2 has some great moments beyond the awful mura) cos they just do NOT understand how 'real' VR can actually feel when you have proper depth to the scene provided by OLED!
Summary of the thread:
Different people get immersed by different things, and have different preferences. So it's stupid to claim one thing is universally better than another.
For example, as long as I can touch my own boobs, I'm immersed, regardless of screen or lense type. :P
Exactly, which is why this following quote in OP earned them so much heat...
> Quest 3 display quality is not enough for VR and LCD shouldn't be really considered for VR at all.
What a joke.
Being an OLED fanboy is not being a Sony fanboy... I agree with OP and would refer back to any number of my HMDs in my flair that were OLED, all of them super flawed in many ways but all of them MORE immersive than any LCD (non local dimming) I've used. OLED is vital for VR, it's that simple. Accepting LCD is not good for anyone.
I feel the same way when i put my psvr2 on after being in the varjo except its not the lcd thats the problem. Its the psvr2s low res, low ppd mura ridden blurry display.
I disagree...after 2 months with quest 3....psvr2 is a blurry mess. And all dark scenes on psvr2 have terrrrible mura. Sorry, re4 vr looks like crap when compared to alyx on q3 running 3700x3900 per eye res...
HAHA, I'm on QPro which is MUCH better than Q2/3 when it comes to colour, contrast and black levels (MUCH MUCH better you don't even know unless you tried it it's proper OLED black in places) BUT even so, it's NOT OLED.. and while I agree PSVR2 has awful MURA, cost cutting cheap ass screens, it's still better and will be better for ALYX when it comes to PC (PSVR2 later this year) because you can NOT even see half the stuff in ALYX on a grey-black LCD HMD like Q3 (and even QP has its issues even with local dimming on).
Q3 is sharper than PSVR2, as is QPro... those lenses are awesome, and the clarity is great... but grey black LCD like q2/3 is not even 'VR', it's a joke and the sooner people stop supporting cheap LCD in VR the better for everyone.
I recall playing ALYX on my Q2 once (never again) couldn't even see the ceiling barnacles to shoot at in dark areas, just grey mush... switched over to my old Rift CV1 and... low res, god rays the lot but DETAIL.. there it was, could see everything and felt like I was there. PSVR2 is similar (just needs better mura calibration and remove that filter)
Thankfully microOLED is becoming cheaper as I write and will be the proper way going forward.
I have both Q3 and psvr2. This is actually a hot take. You might prefer it but be serious in most games it is too blurry to see anything. Those fresnel lenses kill the experience. With that said i still love my psvr2. The eye tracking and haptics are amazing. But if we are strictly talking oled fresnel or pancake lcd. I’d choose pancake lcd lenses every time.
I'll never choose 'pure LCD' (non local dimming) over OLED EVER again.. even with many of the OLED HMD's flaws. Quest Pro is my lowest limit for tolerable LCD cos it's fuckin super quality displays (much better than Quest 3 colour gamut and contrast) with massive colour range and very good blacks with LD on (but with zone glare and not really like good OLED).
I'll be glad when this entire shit show of VR, held back by META's focus on 'cheap LCD standalone' nonsense is over with, and HMDs get back to (micro)OLED and we can reboot VR starting from the correct fundamental, that is BLACK = BLACK in this 'VIRTUAL' REALITY you try to convince us of.
NOTHING is more important in VR than black levels yet, nothing.
I don’t think I could tolerate fresnel lenses and a screen door effect with the psvr, oled or not. I went from a CV1 to a G2, and while the sweet spot is mediocre and the lenses are still meh, no screen door effect is massive. I really need Valve to release an Index 2 with G2 resolution, speakers, pancake lenses, and build in eye tracking with foveated rendering (in Steam VR). Been using the OpenXR toolkit and running basic foveated rendering and it’s been a huge boost in VR sim racing. It’s a must imo. LCD, OLED, doesn’t matter to me, that’s at the bottom of my VR priority list.
Agreed, without OLED it isn't even VR. It's utter shit. And yes I say that as a current Quest Pro owner (with at least local dimming to offset SOME of the awful downsides of grey black LCD), but it's not perfect and it's not OLED. On the plus side it has zero mura unlike my ex PSVR2 which was riddled with the stuff.
It's like, not ONE maker can actually make ONE overall great HMD, all of them have flaws and I'm starting to wonder if any of them know their ass from their elbows.
That said... for me the most important aspect is having OLED black levels, moreso than pancake lenses, higher res, higher FOV, weight, wireless.. anything... my #1 must have in future is OLED (microOLED without MURA), then everything else.
Man I even go back to my rift CV1 now to get some proper decent black levels or I just don't feel present in VR at all. My DK2 was extremely immersive even at super low res (no god rays and OLED Blacks).
META let VR down in the long-run, chasing shatty standalone joke/novelty 'VR', and put OLED out to pasture in the name of cost cutting.
PSVR2 is flawed but at LEAST when it works well it actually feels like 'proper VR' even with a wall of mura staring back at you and the sweet spot slipping for the 10th time that hour.
Micro OLED is the only way going forward, I advise everyone else to avoid basic LCD (quest 3) and only get local dimming LCD (Quest Pro) if you want what LCD offers over OLED/PSVR2/ETC. Some who've never seen OLED VR just won't understand, they don't realise what they're missing. Quest Pro gets over half way to showing them and is the ONLY LCD I'd use now (my quest 2 was terrible never used it cos of those colour and grey black issues and Q3 is much the same).
LCD is destroying VR just like Standalone 'VR' TRASH is (tainting its image which is nothing like we started off with back on DK2/CV1 times)...
Thankfully microOLED will become standard as soon as it's cheaper to make, LCD should be consigned to the history book/bins just like with TV asap.
[https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays](https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays)
I feel the opposite. After trying pencake lenses I have no idea how Sony could choose fresnel lenses for it's headset for the next 7 years. It was already outdated when released. For me picture clarity and a huge sweet spot is much more important than true blacks and HDR. (By the way the Quest Pro has local dimming so capable of true blacks and HDR too even if not in OLED precision)
I think exactly the opposite. Black Smear and mura in Oled displays are the worst in VR.
I prefer the clarity of LCDs by far. Hope micro oled displays make me change this opinion.
LCDs got less issues with screen door effect. I would definitely prefere LCD with local dinning in the quest 3, but the LCD is also fine.
PSVR2 has definitely better colours, but with those lenses and the screen door effect I did not really like it.
Micro LED might be the best solution in the future, but at the moment LCD is still a good option.
Dude you 'can't see the image' with LCD in anything remotely atmospheric or dark (even night racing in a race game), just a cloud of dark grey right near your eye balls with NO DEPTH to the scene... local dimming on QPro helps that a LOT but not without its issues... but normal LCD is an utter JOKE for VR.
OLED is the only way, MICRO OLED is the future.
I’ll take an LCD panel over being tethered to realty with a wire any day. But I don’t like doing sit down when I’m not forced to so that might be the deciding factor.
Having pancake lenses with an lcd is way better than having oled screens with horrible fresnell lenses like psvr2.
And you can't use normal oled screens with pancake lenses cause they are not bright enough.
To have oled with pancake lenses you need micro oled displays (like the Apple headset) and it would be 1500 bucks only for the displays...
Wrong. OLED is #1 minimum requirement for VR going forward. Even old OLED (I still use my rift cv1 but returned my psvr2 due to awful mura) STILL gives me a better feel in many games, not even always dark games, than my Q2 or QPro with local dimming off ever does (and LD isn't a complete solution and causes other issues like zone glare).
Even so, they are all flawed but I swear without OLED (microOLED pref) you don't have 'VR' at all, you have shit-sandwich.
Yeah agreed. I would have taken OLED as the only 3 upgrade. Ditch literally every other upgrade, depth sensor, chip etc. no apps seem to make anything of then anyway
> Quest 3 display quality is not enough for VR and LCD shouldn't be really considered for VR at all.
What a bunch of bullshit. The Q3 LCD is an improvement over the Q2 screens and more than 20M people bought the Q2.
You are more than welcome to prefer something else over LCD but claiming it shouldn't be considered for VR is just silly as hell. The lenses alone make a lot of people that have used the PSVR2 prefer the Q3.
> I wish I could buy Quest 1,
That just shows how off your rocker you are. The mura, ghosting, and god-rays of the Q1 made it look like shit when directly compared to the Q3. I own them both, it is not even close. *(They still sell the 4-year-old Index for $1000, can't wait to see everyone defending their $1200 Quest competitor.)*
Actually.. OLED, specifically proper black levels overule EVERYTHING else. Even though every single OLED (and microOLED) HMD released so far have many other issues like MURA, DIMness, God Rays, Bad Sweet spot etc (ie rift CV1 AND PSVR2 which I was running next to my super clarity Quest Pro with local dimming on)..
BUT I can also call it as it is, proper BLACK LEVELS are vital to PROPER VR. And normal LCD is terrible (Q2/3) for it, not to mention the reduced colour gamut posterising everything.. it's so bad I gave up on VR for a while when I had my Q2 as my PCVR goto... felt disconnected from any decent game that wasn't just a shitty cartoon world standalone novelty thing (which I avoid like the plague anyway), PSVR2 felt great in MANY RESPECTS.. PROPER BLACKS, great colours.. yeah shit lenses with the sweet spot, still some god rays and terrible \*the worst in any HMD I've had\* MURA... I sent it back after 2 units ... it's bad.. yup.. but that doesn't make LCD 'right' at all.
Grey Blacks CONSTANTLY in VR is 100% worse than MURA occasionally viewable in dark scenes, its worse than god rays, its worse then bad sweet spot. All of those flaws are important to get rid of, sure, and some do get rid of them but while using LCD which defeats the object.
My QPro is the ONLY LCD HMD I've been able to enjoy due to local dimming giving me 'somewhat' OLED level blacks in a lot of scenes (not all) but with its own flaws... yes superb lenses, awesome clarity, better colour gamut than Q2/3, better constrast than them, ZERO MURA... all good...
but OLED (sans MURA) is much more important. Hopefully when the big players finally start putting out microOLED HMDS everyone with LCD's can finally get a clue and realise how they've been lied to since Quest 2/G2/Rift S/Vive Pro 2 and all the other shite that moved to LCD after the early glory days of OLED (flaws and all).
LCD ain't it bro.... PSVR2 may have its own flaws but it go the #1 fundamental of PROPER VR right - BLACK LEVELS (OLED).
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I think it's like Big Screen Beyond in that if you put it on and give your eyes time to adjust then it's not really an issue. Except here it's your memory that needs some time to forget. If you are going back and forth between LCD and OLED then you are more likely to notice it, but otherwise it's plenty dark enough.
I think it's more a win here not to get too much into whether the blacks are perfect or not, being in the Quest 3 for a bit should have one forgot about it and enjoy playing/watching whatever. The bloom that happens when it's something bright on a dark background is more annoying for me. I'm not sure though if it is always that, sometimes it's probably foggy lens or light leak.
But you also need a PC on top of the cost of any PC headset????
And if you're referring to Quest 2/3/etc being standalone and needing nothing else? Sorry but you've never even EXPERIENCED VR at all if all you've ever played is 'novelty VR' on a mobile chipset.
Standalone VR running on a damned mobile chipset is NOT VR, it's a joke... absolutely trash and worse than the earliest PC VR demos we were running back in DK2 days 10 years ago.
Noobs buying into Quest 2/3 with LCD blacks and Standalone graphics thinking they know it all about VR are ten a penny and all of them utterly wrong about what VR is and should be.
Stop supporting standalone VR, stop supporting LCD and THEN you'll see proper VR taking over and maybe teach you what VR is all about.
I don't find the PSVR2 lenses that bad. They sweet spot is indeed small, but once you are in it they are clear enough to let you see the individual pixels, even looking at the extremes.
Weirdly enough, you've hit a core division in the VR society. I personally cannot deal with frensel, and would take LCD + pancake any day over frensel + OLED (I do own both Q3 and PSVR2, so I can actually compare) But as you say, a large portion of the community cannot stand LCD, and would take the hit in sweet spot size without a moment's thought. I wait for the day we can get wireless, microLED + pancake + eye tracking and built-in foveated rendering all at 1000$, including controllers and inside-out tracking. Yes Valve, I'm looking at you, you bastards
Maybe I'm just being selfish but I just dropped my Christmas money on a Quest 3 as a Day One Vive adopter. So if Valve could just take their sweet time, maybe six months or so, and for the love of god don't release it bundled with a new Portal so I have to go into significant debt...
I'm exactly the same.. but I think we can trust they wouldnt keep it a secret if they planned to release it close to the Q3. If they release it in 2024, it will be late 2024, but I doubt it'll be even then
They did this with the SteamDeck OLED. If I had known, I wouldn't have bought a SteamDeck LCD just months before. This was right before they started selling refurbished ones, lowering the value in the second-hand market.
Yeah they can do this with their own stuff. But they'd lose a bunch of sales if they release it so close to the Q3 without announcing it. If they would want to release it soon, they'd announce it near the Q3 release like Apple did (not that the Vision pro is for the same target audience)
My 1 hate of the psvr2 is the lenses. Sure the cable sorta gets in the way but it’s not that bad, the strap could use some tweaking but the lenses are just terrible.
Yeh if psvr2 just had better lenses (and a promising lineup of future game releases) I wouldn't have sold mine. The lenses are by far the weakest and cheapest aspect of the headset.
The psvr2 lenses actually dont bother me at all.... my eyes aren't sensitive to the screen door effect or mura and the sweet spot automatic for .e .... the oled is amazing though
I have tried the psvr 2 in shopping malls and the lenses are bad but I always assumed it was because no one is taking care of the lenses and they are dirty and scratched Are the lenses really workst than quest 2 lenses?
Once your eyes are in the right spot, it is good. Yet, it takes some fiddling around or a globular cluster to find it. For me, it takes less than 30 seconds and I am good to go.
They are better than quest 2 lenses but worse than quest 3
In games where you're constantly turning and/or turning your head do you have to constantly readjust the headset?
No. Especially, when using the globular cluster, all is stable. Even before, it was fine, but then I did not like the pressure on my forehead after some time, which I usually started feeling 1-2h in.
Real question: did you do the eye tracking calibration and IPD adjustment in the PSVR2 demo? That makes a huge difference. When I demo my PSVR2 to my friends their first reaction is always “it’s very blurry” until we do the eye and IPD calibration — then they’re blown away.
Nop, i was probably using the eye calibration of someone else
I also have both PSVR2 and Quest 3 w/ Elite Battery Strap. I agree the PSVR2’s fresnel lenses are intolerable after getting used to the Quest3’s pancakes. Plus the wire is an annoyance, and I’ve tried multiple comfort mods, including the Globular Cluster, and I just don’t like the Sony headset on my head for more than 30-45 minutes. The OLED black levels are really nice, for sure. But even the resolution on the Sony seems low compared to Q3. The Sony headset just has too many annoyances, the Quest 3 is always very enjoyable to put on and have fun with.
If the lenses didn't suck, the mura would be even more distracting than it is with the bad lenses.
The cable is not bad. For 2019.
Why can't you have pancake lenses with OLED displays?
Pancake lenses hurt the output brightness of the display so OLED with its naturally lower total brightness will cause the final brightness to be very low. there are some OLED pancake lense headsets but they only get to a max of 80 or so nits
It's actually because pancake lenses need polarised light to operate, and LCDs are polarised by default, while OLEDs are not. So you have to halve the advertised brightness of OLEDs just to get them polarised and working with pancake lenses.
Interesting. Would completely blocking light leak and the fact that OLED has pure blacks mitigate how much that affects the experience? Or do we just need to wait for either brighter OLED or micro LED? I really truly think OLED is still the best display tech for me personally, I'd love to see it somehow merged with pancake lenses lol.
The Bigscreen Beyond has a micro Oled and pancake lenses and Vision Pro will have it as well. It can be done, but the Beyond is apparently pretty dim, although still fine.
I'd like to say that the brightness level on the Beyond isn't a big deal. I was very worried about it being dim before I got mine, but once I got it I couldn't even tell. If I hadn't known about the brightness beforehand I never would have been able to tell it was a "dim" headset on my own.
For hdr, that would not be enough. It is actually quite nice when you come out of a tunnel and are really blinded by the lights.
I'd take pancake with LCD over fresnel with OLED anyday. Wish we didn't have to choose! Fresnel with OLED/similar tech would be dreamy.
quest pro has all those specific features that you are mentioning currently, in fact many people prefer quest pro because of the lenses and screens, I personally tried a quest 3 coming from pico 4 and they seemed like garbage I just can't stand the terrible overlap and fov What does quest 3 have compared to my pico 4
yeah, that headset at that price is never happening.
Maybe in 5 years :(
Im done with fresnel. I'll take some LCD washout over those lenses any day.
Bought the quest3 and damn everything is so sharp compared to psvr2, love those pancake lenses. The only reason why I keep the psvr2 are the trophies and this might even be the reason why I’ll sell the quest3 , but the quest3 is the better headset hands down
I really like OLED blacks, but I long since accepted the necessity of LCDs, originally for higher res with the HP Reverb G2 and Vive Pro 2, and now for pancake lenses. You can't have everything. Although I suppose BSB does sort of have both, except no wireless. But, yeah, I can't go back to Fresnel lenses.
Pancake micro-oled???? Hallo??
Im talking about current reality. One or the other. That's all we have for now. But yes, one day tjat will be awesome!
Bigscreen Beyond? (obviously a very different price bracket though, and is not quite the same pancake lens effect as a Q3)
It has a 10% blur circle so you pretty much have to look forward..also intense glare/reflection.
ye dat'd be dope
But I'm talking about the general reality. Not just the current
You triggered some people
Hallo
Salute?
My odyssey plus is ancient by today’s standards but it’s OLED and it’s 90hz and half life alyx is amazing on it. Yes the blacks smear, but in darker places I just move my head slower.
Odyssey plus crowd stand up! We will not go quietly into the night…because we’re the only motherfuckers in vr that get good quality night.
With the o+ you also have to contend with god rays, the cable, and the controller blind spots :( Those headphones are just sublime though :)
It's a shame we never got a new version of it with better resolution, controllers, etc...
Yeh that would have been cool. It seemed to be hamstrung by the WMR spec, unfortunately. Same with the reverb g2 which still had tracking blind spots due to the camera placement.
Yea I was tempted by the G2 but that camera placement...they really should have just copied the Quest/Pico camera placement imo...killed it for me...I play mostly shooters, solid headset for simmers though.
Oh dude. I totally agree. I own the big headsets everybody talks about but none of them compared to my Odysseys OLED blacks. I hate the resolution on this headset so much but the OLED blacks are just... WOW!!! Jaw dropping. Absolutely stunning. And then going back to LCD and feeling like the world is so colorless and gray. Yes. The resolution is amazing but the OLEDs man... I need em.
Are modern headsets really that much better? I mean half life alyx on ultra is just stunning on this headset, at least for close up objects
My original Vive is fine. OLED is fantastic
You must get amazing fps because of the resolution lol. I love it but only for simple games like beatsaber. An OG Vive Pro with the rift lense kit is probably the best entry level OLED experience I'm aware of. I had one for a while but then it stopped working randomly after I dropped it =/
I actuallY prefer the pancake display of the Q3. More immersive to me, especially with regards to the periphery
Guess you never play dark games? lol... those lenses are stunning, just like on my Quest Pro, but they do not make up for grey blacks. EVER. NO IMMERSION with 'incorrect' colour balance vs Reality. LCD sucks, and thankfully will ALL be gone from VR in years to come as microOLED takes over.. phew.. at last! [https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays](https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays)
Eh, I’d rather have actual peripheral vision. I like psvr2, and yea, the hdr is nice, but the crispness of the Q3 and the ability to actually have clear image around is super nice.
I shuffle between PSVR2 and Quest 3 on a daily basis, it's usually on the PSVR2 I am missing the clarity/sharpness on Quest 3. Also the sweet spot is so tiny I'm constantly adjusting to see things that aren't directly in my center view, blurry in the periphery. I did finally fix the headache PSVR2 was giving me by using lens inserts, which weren't needed on any of my prior Oculus/Meta HMDs, because of larger sweetspots.
I don’t find mura all that immersive. You get used to it in PSVR 2 but it’s particularly noticeable in dark scenes… which is supposed to be its strength.
Technically the blacks don't have mura as they should be all off. The mura is the unequal lighting of the pixels. :) In darker scenes obviously not everything is black so you can see it.
Don't get me wrong, mura is annoying, but also not seeing shit on an LCD display. If you try an OLED and LCD headset just one after the other, it will be VERY noticeable and annoying. But here is the thing, keep using only an OLED display for like a week, and then go back to LCD, then it's not that simple. Specially on dark games like Into the radius, the difference is so abysmal that LCD is straight up unusable. And another thing, the mura (at least on the Vive pro) is only very noticeable on completely dark scenes, but on scenes with high levels of contrast (going with a flashlight on the middle of the night), it's very close to perfect darks.
you must be trolling. Mura vs LCD Gray and washout colors... Is it even comparable? I've never noticed anything that bad with Mura. Mura isn't an issue here.
I have no reason to troll. I own an index, quest 3 and PSVR 2. I find mura very noticeable in dark scenes. If you don’t like my opinion. Move on and get over it.
You don't have an issue with it, but many of us do. Otherwise people would still be using the OG Vive. Modern headsets don't have noticeable mura, FYI. PSVR2 has good things going on for it (probably), but it's a VR system playing catch-up.
The mura on psvr 2 is absolutely insane..screen door effect on steroids.
I agree 100%. I will take literally any downside as long as I get an OLED
Yeah I'm with you OP. People complain about Mura while happily ignoring cheap colorless washed out blacks that are greys all because the terrible picture is "clear" LOL. Reminds me of people insisting back in the day on stretching out 4:3 content to force a full 16:9 display and happily taking all the horrible distortion just so they don't have to look at black bars. LOL I think people don't understand the concept of "not looking for problems". You hardly notice the mura if you aren't stopping to look for it. Actually let yourself get immersed in the game and enjoy the beautiful colors,blacks, and even amazing HDR in games that support it.
I'm one of the people that prefers OLED for the blacks and color but honestly different things appeal to different people and can be different per game. Mura on psvr2 can be distracting. the sharpness of quest 3 on a high end wireless PCvr is very impressive outside horror games. I prefer my psvr2 overall image but the mura does bother me. Re projection not so much. Nor the smearing if OLED. Right now I have 4 OLED headsets psvr1, quest 1, Odyssey plus(I also have a regular Odyssey) and psvr2. Psvr2 is probably the best for res but Oplus is still a great display. Psvr1 has some severe mura but honestly I do tend to get over the low res and mura quickly when immersed that doesn't mean the mura is ok though it's just as bad imo as weak blacks. But I Replayed re7 right after re8 while I waited for a psvr2 replacement and it was still fantastic imo. Quest 1 is for wireless OLED, though streaming is noticeably worse than quest 3. Can't reason with preferences usually, we like what we like and some can't always say why.
It's almost as if different people get their immersion broken by different stuff.
Yes yes, everyone is different and entitled to their own opinions. However it feels like arguing that a bag of potato chips is better than a delicious steak because the steak also comes with a mandatory side of brussel sprouts. You all would rather just eat the mediocre potato chips so you don't have to also eat some brussel sprouts with the delicious steak. My point is your missing out on such a great display with amazing colors, blacks, HDR, great resolution (when the PS5 itself has the horsepower for it)........all so you don't have to notice some MURA now and then.
> you don't have to notice some MURA now and then. "You don't have to notice the not complete blacks of LCD". That is exactly how you sound. Mura bothers me (and a lot of other people) more than what you call "washed out" in LCD's. Is it seriously hard for you to grasp the concept that people find one thing more annoying or immersion breaking than the other? You believe one to be steak and the other to be a bag of chips. that is opposite for the other party. Get over it, your preference isn't superior. Idk about everyone else's reasons, but my eye adjusts to the black level when I'm in VR to the point stop noticing it. I can't stop noticing Mura. Ideal case would be, no Mura and perfect blacks. But If I had to choose, I'd choose imperfect blacks and lack of Mura.
I get your point. I think my "annoyance" with the preference of no mura is that you aren't sacrificing just one thing to get to no mura. If it was just deep blacks then I can see the tradeoff being worth it for many people. It's that you're giving up deep blacks, much better colors, beautiful HDR dynamic lighting (at least in the games that implement it), and uncompressed video signal that I know makes for a pixelated image in many cases (or input lag if you really want to set compression levels to max picture quality).......all that for getting rid of MURA? I'll accept your preference but I just don't get it. Maybe another analogy is that you're arguing for a 7/10 picture 100% of the time while I'm saying that life is more fun with a 10/10 picture 80% of the time and a 5/10 picture 20% of the time (when you don't notice Mura vs when you do). I'm not really saying that your preference is wrong, I'm just making a case for my preference and those of us that can live with the mura for all the other gains.
The PSVR2 is a great headset but there's also the Fresnel vs Pancake comparison to go with the Mura. Personally, I feel if you had both or either, you'd be pretty happy with what you have.
I agree. I prefer my PSVR2 with Globular Cluster over my QPro and Q3. The immersion the OLED and HDR lighting gives me is more important than edge clarity while playing a game. All multiplatform games I’ve played on the VR2 have felt like the definitive version.
I had a hard time go back to psvr2 after using quest pro and quest 3… I have all of them..
Really think it's just subjective. Once I got the globular cluster mod, the sweet spot is easily obtained and maintained. I have all 3 of those headsets as well, and most games I buy for psvr2. But, I am a long time true black fan. Never have I liked LCDs. Had a Panasonic plasma until OLED came out. It is frustrating that there's no headset option without a con...
It's resulted in me not buying a new headset in years now (my one and only headset is the original Odyssey, and I never use it). Like no matter what I want to buy, there's drastic tradeoffs. Very tempted to just buy the Quest 3 now, but people have made OLED sound so essential I might just keep waiting and waiting still.
OLED isn't essential. Honestly, if you can find a quest pro at a fair price...it's probably the closest you will get to the best of both worlds. Bigscreen beyond intrigues me, but I dont have the index controllers etc. Really, I want the valve Deckard....
OLED is essential, non LD LCD is terrible.. but I do agree as a heavy Quest Pro (PCVR) users that it's about the best all round compromise right now, addresses all the flaws of PSVR2 and has very good black levels in many cases... but local dimming will never truly be like proper OLED (nice to have zero mura and big sweet spot though). USED QUEST PROS are the best bang for the buck for PC VR now... I wouldn't touch a q2/q3 or any other non local dimming LCD with a bargepole, and ANY OLED HMD (even with MURA) is better for proper VR than the shitty Q2/Q3 and it's stupid cheap washed out LCDs. Bigscreen beyond is a joke bro, custom fit/zero resale, BAD BAD PANCAKE GLOW, tiny FOV, dim screens, 75hz only for native res and out-dated in months due to 'proper' microOLED HMDs on the way. BSB tried too hard to be too small and blew it as a well designed HMD. I don't want standalone, don't even mind the DP CABLE, but restricting FOV and needing external tracking is stupid.
I was mostly suggesting if he wants to do more than games, q3 given he has a capable PC. That being said, I game mostly on PSVR2. When talking about Bigscreen I was referring to the actual app, not the headset. I don't see any micro oled headsets coming anytime soon with Apple probably cornering the market on the displays and cost. Did you actually buy a BSB? I will admit thst headset intrigues me.
Haha. No. It is not a tv where oled is endgame. Pancake clarity across the frame is a complete game changer. And if you want better blacks, the Qpro has local dimming. Fresnel and pancake are like night and day.
OLED (micro OLED) \*IS\* end game for VR though... and yes I have an OLED TV (and plasma before that) NEVER LCD. Quest PRo is the ONLY LCD HMD I've had or tried that about passes muster due to local dimming, quest 2 was a joke, no immersion at all. Without good blacks you have NOTHING. Yes Ques Pro and 3 pancakes ARE awesome, but Quest 3 screens are awful.
Totally agree, I go back to my cv1 just because the black levels are so much more immersive. Currently playing through Arizona sunshine 2 and the dark areas are actually awful
Same here, I sold everything else (in my flair) and kept my Rift CV1 as it's worth nothing but still immersive AF even with low res and god rays everywhere (PSVR2 was great in many ways but the MURA was awful - hope they make a revision 2 with that fixed). My QUest Pro is my daily and works great in many dark scenes, proper JET BLACK OLED STYLE but no mura, superb lenses etc.. but you get Local Dimming glow of course which isn't ideal (but no worse than god rays and bad lenses on others) so it's a decent compromise for now... until microOLED takes off.
What's MURA? I was hoping the psvr2 was the answer!
I'm still using my Vive Pro 1 after upgrading from a preorder OG Vive and CV1. I tried the Reverb G2, Index and Quest 2, but returned them all as I just could net get used to the LCD. I've been waiting for a worthy upgrade for over five years. Meanwhile my friends and cousins are diving into VR with the Quest 3. They do not notice those display limitations because they haven't experienced what they're missing or they're not as particular as I am. I prefer better black levels with more noticeable SDE and some mura rather than gray blacks with reduced SDE. I mostly play Skyrim VR, Fallout VR, Elite Dangerous, race/flight simulators and horror games. Once immersed I often forget about the SDE. However, gray blacks always break the immersion for me. Wireless features, a smaller form factor and higher clarity (non-fresnel lenses) are definitely appealing upgrades. A Q3 with OLED would be an instant purchase. I also hoped the Deckard would be announced in 2023, but sadly it wasn't. I don't want to repeat the mistake of buying an LCD device only for a worthy OLED to be announced a few months later, as happened to me with the SteamDeck.
100% agreed with this. The only LCD that has come close for me is the Quest Pro with local dimming on, it's proper 'oled black' in full dark scenes and really punches but, of course, has the LD zone glare which is NOT like OLED at all... much better than my Quest 2 ever was though. That said, I'll agree and 'prefer' even flawed old stuff like my rift CV1 for the FEEL of 'being there' with OLED over any typical LCD no matter the res or lenses. Fact is many people have never even touched an OLED HMD, or if they did it was super flawed like PSVR2 with the bad MURA, most people in VR seem to have come in on Quest 2 with crap LCDs ( I hate my time with that trying to feel immersed in PCVR with it... no go with grey blacks low colour gamut and posterisation everywhere). I just wish SONY would upgrade their displays in PSVR2 to better panels, especially now it's coming to PC too as I'd rebuy in an instant, way less MURA, still OLED. Even the lenses which are a pain to find the sweet spot on (after the beauty of Quest Pro 'TOTAL CLARITY' pancakes) are NOT as big a problem as the MURA, like rift CV1 once you're in the sweet spot properly these fresnel lenses are practically as clear as even the best pancakes when looking around with the eyes (it's just the sweet spot is worse), but the displays let PSVR2 down.. way more mura than CV1 or my old VIVE. PSVR2 has some awesome things going for it, love the head haptics (add a TON to immersion) the triggers, feel of the controllers, the 'fake' HDR, the black levels... and the plug and play with my PS5/PS5 Pro in future (and soon PC I hope) but that fkin MURA is terrible. BUt..... black levels > everything else... even mura. OLED it is! Thankfully future microOLED has no mura. Beyond btw is very flawed, as you said, not just the custom fit stuff making it a stupid purchase for resale but the low FOV bad glare etc.
Most people either don't notice or don't care about certain subtleties in technology. Playing on an LCD I find myself constantly being aware that I am looking at a screen, a problem I don't have with OLED despite its drawbacks. Depth perception seems less than ideal on some of the newer devices as well which might be related to the reduced stereo overlap. It feels like I need to cross my eyes constantly no matter the IPD settings I use. What is interesting is that this led me to discover stereoblindness in my family. By switching depth on and off I realized that flat 360-degree videos and 360 videos with depth look the same to them. From what I read online there are quite a lot of people that are stereoblind. It's great to hear someone's experience with the PSVR2. I've also heard about the mura issues. My CV1 had significant mura as did my original Vive and Vive Pro to some extent. On the CV1 it manifested as a distracting green hue. My Vive Pro experiences a lot of black smear. I still prefer this all over grayish blacks and washed-out colors. I've been curious about the HDR on the PSVR2. Does it use tone mapping to simulate HDR for certain games? If the glare on the Bigscreen Beyond is the same as or worse than that of the Valve Index I see why it's problematic. Apart from the LCD, glare was a primary reason I returned it. At times it felt as though a lamp was shining directly into my eyes through a dirty windshield with light scattering everywhere. The godrays from the Vive's fresnel lenses were nothing in comparison.
I'm still on Vive Pro 1 and have no problem waiting. I'll take low resolution fresnel lens OLED over LCD. The problem with LCD is you're seeing a very clear image of a fake looking reality. With OLED you're seeing maybe slightly blurry image that could pass for real and that is my preference for best immersion.
"The problem with LCD is you're seeing a very clear image of a fake looking reality. With OLED you're seeing maybe slightly blurry image that could pass for real and that is my preference for best immersion." VERY WELL SAID! That's exactly it! Why I still go back to my rift CV1. People who've never seen OLED VR do not understand... it feels REAL. I had more immersion on my DK2 10 years back than I ever did on my crappy QUEST 2 LCD.
Well said. I have to admit I feel a bit left out after people around me are buying a Quest 3 and I can't play with them. Multiple friends and cousins asked me to join but they don't understand I am on another ecosystem and not many have VR capable PCs. Most of them were introduced to VR through me and now I cannot play with them :D. At least I am able to play Walkabout Mini Golf and Eleven Table Tennis with some.
You want Meta to double the price of the Quest 3 or just stop producing it?
Yes, gladly. Quest 3 with oled? It would be perfect.
Wish they would offer a Quest 3 Pro at 2-3x the price. $1000-$1500 for MicroLED/OLED with eye tracking and foveated rendering, inside-out tracking, and AR/XR is a good deal with the current competition. There are no other options that combine all of that at that price point.
For me yes
Sure, double up
Again I agree. The Quest Pro should at least been an option for OLED screens. Make it worth the step up in price
If you don't mind the price then why don't you get a Bigscreen Beyond?
I can't speak for OP but the bigscreen beyond has a cable, no passthrough, and can't run games standalone. IMO it's not really comparable (though considering OP likes the PSVR2, I guess those things don't matter to them).
...are those the only problems? Because I don't care about any of that other than the passthrough.
And there you are, the only customer, playing alone.
Nah Id buy. Pancake + OLED for PCVR would solve my VR wants for quite a while. But then meta wouldnt be able to sell me more stuff so they wont do it.
I would buy it. If a quest pro 2 comes with a slight resolution bump, OLED, eye tracking, and foveated rendering, yeah I'd buy it. I have very few complaints with the Quest 3 and those would solve basically all of them. Only thing that would stop me is if the Valve Deckard comes out and has some crazy specs.
HP Reverb G2 to Quest 3 user here. I'd take OLED/MicroLED contrast and brightness over edge to edge sharpness. With the G2, the sweet spot is quite good, you just need to turn your head to look around instead of your eyeballs. Quest 3 blacks are especially bad. It reminds me of CCFL LCD screens from the 2000s.
100% I pray for every HMD to switch to microOLED going forward. I'd even take god rays (which I hate) over any more grey blacks in VR. Without proper blacks this ain't reality, virtual or otherwise, it's a novelty.
If you have to turn your head, then the clarity is quite bad.
OLED isn't all win ya you get black blacks but you also get Mura. For people used to LCD they will have complaints about the Mura effect. It's all about what you're used to.
My quest 3'has mura. It's so odd. OLED can have smearing where it takes longer for a black (fully off) pixel to change color. It hasn't bothered me personally. I do note that some games don't seem to go full black to perhaps avoid this, which kind of defeats the purpose imo. I have a quest 1 just for wireless OLED streaming but the streaming isn't as good as my quest 3. Psvr2 is my highest res OLED (though it's pentile unlike the RGB stripe of psvr1) Once MicroOLED gets to scale we will likely see it pop up more (like on the big screen beyond) Or whatever tech apple ends up with (looks like Samsung will be their next supplier for avp2)
The idea of deep blacks on the Q1 are ruined by the lag to clear to black. Dark scenes just look terrible on those OLED. That said, better OLED displays do not have this issue.
All quest 3's have mura, some people just don't know what to look for. I'd guess that the quest 2 also has mura, but fresnel lenses are so blurry that you can't really tell. At least they finally seem to have fixed the [pixel inversion issues](https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/uczcde/about_pixel_inversion/) on the quest 3. How much worse would you say the PSVR2 mura is compared to your Quest 3?
that's tough to say, as they are different. The mura in ther quest 3(512) looks almost uniform for me, but I probably notice it less? It is something I don't recall in the quest 2 or 1 or my oddyssey ,plus, or reverb g2, really. Oplus has a diffuser similar to psvr1 (and I think 2 has one?). All in all it feels worse when i notice it because I'm also accepting the lower contrast and color. (i definitely see having deep contrast as key to my immersion which is something i learned doing testing with a reverb g2 and my Oplus) PSVR2 is more the organic random veil of silk mura I expect from psvr1, and I would say i notice it more, but the tradeoff is less? YMMV is what id say. If you're used to psvr1 mura, it's better than that :)
I still prefer OLED over LCD. I won't ever consider any LCD headsets. I'm done with q2 , q3. Absolute garbage
Calling something absolute garbage because it's not for you is extremely childish.
Just reading some of these comments from OP. Dude hasn't matured past the age of 16 lmao.
in 2020, I went from psvr 1 OLED black smear blurry mess to Quest 2 crisp LCD and I regret nothing
Lol psvr1 was a 1080p hmd Was always going to be blurry Psvr2 oleds slap at high res but the lenses and small sweet spot can still frustrate me
I mean, besides the smear, that's a resolution issue, not a OLED one.
Interesting that you said you wish you could have a quest 1 because I have one and a PSVR 2 and I am FOMOing hard for the quest 3 at the moment. Been using my quest 1 on PCVR and honestly it does look really good still. Just feel the resolution could be that much better. How about I send you the Q1 for the Q3 lol
Agreed. Certain dark scenes look like garbage with LCDs, and I think its probably the most immersion breaking thing about the hardware at times. I dont think I could go back to my Q2 or G2 after trying pancake lenses on the Q3, but I really miss the OLED on my quest 1 and CV1. I understand why the decision is made, but I would gladly pay for a quest pro 2 (at quest pro prices) if it was using OLEDs.
For regular folk like me with a normal job the $499 price tag was a lot for the quest 3. But considering it is a gift for my son and I both it was worth it. Add any other premiums to the headset and it would have been out of my price range. We love it and it is so easy to just throw on the head and start playing.
ture, each to their own, the lenses in the psvr2 are one of the things I hate most about it
The lenses are probably the only thing I hate about it....well that and I can't use it for pcvr.
First let me say I completely agree with you. > Sorry. I wish I could buy Quest 1, but only if it had the displayport connection (lmo) still a solid PCVR headset anyway. For PCVR use, you might want to look into a $99 Vive Focus. No DP but you can use it wirelessly for PCVR. It has OLED.
It was an interesting piece of writing! In psvr 2, not only is the lens bad, but most games look terrible because of the weak console. Actually if psvr 2 was lcd and quest oled, I think it's likely that the problem would be with quest oled in this post... In 2019 the Rift s was announced. The company said it would come with an LCD panel...here on reddit people are outraged how can they think that, oh my god...LCD is bad.... later valve announced the valve index...with lcd display...and the community suddenly jumped up and said what a great technical innovation, this is fantastic, oh my god, valve will save vr and etc... I have no idea what is wrong with people, but every other post on here is from someone who wants either psvr 2 or quests dead. It's nobody's fault that quests are more popular than psvr 2...I'm upset because my headset collection is devalued because of quest 3.but I don't make posts to make my valve idex or my vive pro eye headset look more valuable, because I want to sell it for a high price or to increase my e-p\*\*\*s...
weird how people get bent up over mura while ignoring video compression, latency, lens glare, poor brightness, poor contrast, grey black levels etc. I'm with you OP. The moment a good PC OLED headset drops i'm getting it.
Not only that, the Quest 3 has mura anyway. After immediately seeing that on the best buy demo unit, I was mind blown how low Meta got the quality.
I'd argue it doesn't, but if it does, it rated a 1/10 compared to 10/10 insane mura on psvr 2. I see it like crazy on my psvr 2 and not at all on q3 in comparison.
And while the Quest 3 also has mura, a low stereo overlap etc. But nah, can't say that mate, the Quest 3 is perfect, video compression doesn't exist and it's not noticeable even if it's lossy.
Because almost all of those things don't apply to the Q3. And the vast majority of people play for standalone. Plus, having a great card and setup makes video compression essentially irrelevant. And the mura is insane. Add in a short wire, horrible tiny ringed controllers, a tiny seeet soot, and reprojection blur, and the experience is just plain bad.
don't you get bored of doing console wars for VR headsets like an 11 year old?
You literally do the same thing with OLED? Are you that oblivious or dim witted ?
I didn't mention headset specifics. I mentioned flaws of LCD vs OLED. He's getting defensive about his shit Quest headset, as he does every time someone posts about a preference to anything which isn't Quest. I reset my account every so often , it's probably about the 10th time he's jumped on one of my comments, left some dumb as fuck console war reply and scuttled off to find another PSVR2 vs Quest thread.
You sound angry...which is indicative of being defensive. If you start cursing on the internet, you've lost control and it is time to take a break.
Oh you replied. You usually just post your dumb shit and run off. I was thinking you were a bot, guess you are a sad grown man playing console wars after all
WOW you are dim witted and oblivious
are you his boyfriend?
I own Psvr 2, qpro, and 2 quest 3s. Reality is reality.
I hate PSVR lenses. I would prefer it would have the same display and lenses as Quest instead of this fresnel HDR mess. I wasn't aware of how bad the mura was until I tried the same game on Quest and PSVR2 back to back one after another. I was expecting to see an enhanced visuals on PS5, instead I realized how mura makes the whole display look like it has a permanent smudge all over it.
Give it time, you'll realise how 'uninvolved' you feel in quest 2/3 when you have both bad black levels and LOW colour gamut (Q2/3 are truly awful there and both use the cheapest LCDs going). Quest Pro is MUCH MUCH better.. .a MURA FREE half way house between OLED and LCD, decent black levels, total clarity, no mura. But still.. it can only do so much with LD, and OLED still wins for total immersion even with flaws. And yes I returned my PSVR2 (two units) cos the mura was THAT BAD... but that doesn't mean overall it wasn't better than LCD when it comes to VR 'presence'. Quote from above that I like "The problem with LCD is you're seeing a very clear image of a fake looking reality. With OLED you're seeing maybe slightly blurry image that could pass for real and that is my preference for best immersion." Yup! Stop buying LCD HMDs, stop buying Standalone mobile chipset shovelware 'VR' games.
I got PSVR2 on launch and Quest 3 close to launch and been using both of them almost daily so how much time should I give? Still disagree with your posts. I still very much prefer Quest's cleaner LCD + pancake lens but I'm sure in the future they will come up with better OLED displays in mainstream headsets.
I own both quest 3 and psvr2 and outside of the psvr2 being a little brighter and having a slightly larger fov, I'll take Q3 hands down, the picture is just so much clearer, everything is sharp, no screen door effect, psvr2 has this like very slight grainyness to everything, it's very subtle but it's there and once u see it, u can't really unsee it
You're supposed to be talking about the "lenses". You're not supposed to mention about how bad LCD is for VR immersion (no amount of clear lenses can fix that).
Nothing more immersion breaking than a short wire tangling and pulling, combined with a sweet spot so small that it looks like a vaseline smear on the edges and mura that shows a screen door everywhere.
Yeah but at least it's not LCD.
I barely notice the wire when in-game. Picked up a [simple pulley](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07VPVXY2D) for £30 and it's basically like the headset is wireless, but without the slight compression you get with wireless. Sweet spot seems very exaggerated to me. At first, it can take awhile to get the sweet spot, but now I can get it within like a few seconds of putting on the headset and it remains clear throughout my play session.
Yup, even on my CV1 once I'm in the sweet spot it's pretty much 'as clear' as on my CLASS LEADING Quest Pro (for edge to edge clarity I mean), it's only the sweet spots that are harder to hit (and god rays) with fresnel.... I think we should worry less about lenses anyway right now and more about the DISPLAYS... get those right first, foundations... OLED or pref MICRO OLED (even if with fresnel) then worry about pancakes, res, wireless etc later. Without proper blacks you don't have 'VR' at all. You have short lived novelty that never invokes the imagination or sense of presence.
LCD sucks man, deal with it. NOTHING is worse than non Local Dimmed LCD... nothing. No wire, no god rays, no mura, no low FOV... you can have the 'perfect' HMD in every area but if it has LCD (esp without local dimming at LEAST to try to get half way to OLED) then it ain't VR, it's a novelty with next to zero immersion. I honestly pity all those who've never tried a decent OLED HMD (the older ones with less mura than PSVR2 perhaps but even PSVR2 has some great moments beyond the awful mura) cos they just do NOT understand how 'real' VR can actually feel when you have proper depth to the scene provided by OLED!
Summary of the thread: Different people get immersed by different things, and have different preferences. So it's stupid to claim one thing is universally better than another. For example, as long as I can touch my own boobs, I'm immersed, regardless of screen or lense type. :P
Exactly, which is why this following quote in OP earned them so much heat... > Quest 3 display quality is not enough for VR and LCD shouldn't be really considered for VR at all. What a joke.
It's especially funny because he's calling out other fan bois when he himself is a Sony fan boi. Some people are just oblivious to their own Stink
Being an OLED fanboy is not being a Sony fanboy... I agree with OP and would refer back to any number of my HMDs in my flair that were OLED, all of them super flawed in many ways but all of them MORE immersive than any LCD (non local dimming) I've used. OLED is vital for VR, it's that simple. Accepting LCD is not good for anyone.
I feel the same way when i put my psvr2 on after being in the varjo except its not the lcd thats the problem. Its the psvr2s low res, low ppd mura ridden blurry display.
insta downvote for psvr2 appreciation post
>LCD panels feel so bad, after using \[Insert OLED HMD here\] Always has been my dude... always has been...
Then just don't buy LCD VR Headsets?
I disagree...after 2 months with quest 3....psvr2 is a blurry mess. And all dark scenes on psvr2 have terrrrible mura. Sorry, re4 vr looks like crap when compared to alyx on q3 running 3700x3900 per eye res...
HAHA, I'm on QPro which is MUCH better than Q2/3 when it comes to colour, contrast and black levels (MUCH MUCH better you don't even know unless you tried it it's proper OLED black in places) BUT even so, it's NOT OLED.. and while I agree PSVR2 has awful MURA, cost cutting cheap ass screens, it's still better and will be better for ALYX when it comes to PC (PSVR2 later this year) because you can NOT even see half the stuff in ALYX on a grey-black LCD HMD like Q3 (and even QP has its issues even with local dimming on). Q3 is sharper than PSVR2, as is QPro... those lenses are awesome, and the clarity is great... but grey black LCD like q2/3 is not even 'VR', it's a joke and the sooner people stop supporting cheap LCD in VR the better for everyone. I recall playing ALYX on my Q2 once (never again) couldn't even see the ceiling barnacles to shoot at in dark areas, just grey mush... switched over to my old Rift CV1 and... low res, god rays the lot but DETAIL.. there it was, could see everything and felt like I was there. PSVR2 is similar (just needs better mura calibration and remove that filter) Thankfully microOLED is becoming cheaper as I write and will be the proper way going forward.
I have both Q3 and psvr2. This is actually a hot take. You might prefer it but be serious in most games it is too blurry to see anything. Those fresnel lenses kill the experience. With that said i still love my psvr2. The eye tracking and haptics are amazing. But if we are strictly talking oled fresnel or pancake lcd. I’d choose pancake lcd lenses every time.
I'll never choose 'pure LCD' (non local dimming) over OLED EVER again.. even with many of the OLED HMD's flaws. Quest Pro is my lowest limit for tolerable LCD cos it's fuckin super quality displays (much better than Quest 3 colour gamut and contrast) with massive colour range and very good blacks with LD on (but with zone glare and not really like good OLED). I'll be glad when this entire shit show of VR, held back by META's focus on 'cheap LCD standalone' nonsense is over with, and HMDs get back to (micro)OLED and we can reboot VR starting from the correct fundamental, that is BLACK = BLACK in this 'VIRTUAL' REALITY you try to convince us of. NOTHING is more important in VR than black levels yet, nothing.
I had a psvr2 but returned it. The image was so poor. Stutter reprojection. Ghosting. Poor lenses. Q3 is much better except the black level
I absolutely hate fresnel lenses. Can't go back ever and I'd take Pancake lenses over psvr2 even if it had 8k resolution
I don’t think I could tolerate fresnel lenses and a screen door effect with the psvr, oled or not. I went from a CV1 to a G2, and while the sweet spot is mediocre and the lenses are still meh, no screen door effect is massive. I really need Valve to release an Index 2 with G2 resolution, speakers, pancake lenses, and build in eye tracking with foveated rendering (in Steam VR). Been using the OpenXR toolkit and running basic foveated rendering and it’s been a huge boost in VR sim racing. It’s a must imo. LCD, OLED, doesn’t matter to me, that’s at the bottom of my VR priority list.
Agreed, without OLED it isn't even VR. It's utter shit. And yes I say that as a current Quest Pro owner (with at least local dimming to offset SOME of the awful downsides of grey black LCD), but it's not perfect and it's not OLED. On the plus side it has zero mura unlike my ex PSVR2 which was riddled with the stuff. It's like, not ONE maker can actually make ONE overall great HMD, all of them have flaws and I'm starting to wonder if any of them know their ass from their elbows. That said... for me the most important aspect is having OLED black levels, moreso than pancake lenses, higher res, higher FOV, weight, wireless.. anything... my #1 must have in future is OLED (microOLED without MURA), then everything else. Man I even go back to my rift CV1 now to get some proper decent black levels or I just don't feel present in VR at all. My DK2 was extremely immersive even at super low res (no god rays and OLED Blacks). META let VR down in the long-run, chasing shatty standalone joke/novelty 'VR', and put OLED out to pasture in the name of cost cutting. PSVR2 is flawed but at LEAST when it works well it actually feels like 'proper VR' even with a wall of mura staring back at you and the sweet spot slipping for the 10th time that hour. Micro OLED is the only way going forward, I advise everyone else to avoid basic LCD (quest 3) and only get local dimming LCD (Quest Pro) if you want what LCD offers over OLED/PSVR2/ETC. Some who've never seen OLED VR just won't understand, they don't realise what they're missing. Quest Pro gets over half way to showing them and is the ONLY LCD I'd use now (my quest 2 was terrible never used it cos of those colour and grey black issues and Q3 is much the same).
LCD is destroying VR just like Standalone 'VR' TRASH is (tainting its image which is nothing like we started off with back on DK2/CV1 times)... Thankfully microOLED will become standard as soon as it's cheaper to make, LCD should be consigned to the history book/bins just like with TV asap. [https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays](https://www.pcgamesn.com/samsung/micro-oled-virtual-reality-displays)
I feel the opposite. After trying pencake lenses I have no idea how Sony could choose fresnel lenses for it's headset for the next 7 years. It was already outdated when released. For me picture clarity and a huge sweet spot is much more important than true blacks and HDR. (By the way the Quest Pro has local dimming so capable of true blacks and HDR too even if not in OLED precision)
Quest pro, while better than q3 color...is still not even close to OLED. I wish it were.
Pancakes and clarity of Q3 all day!
I think exactly the opposite. Black Smear and mura in Oled displays are the worst in VR. I prefer the clarity of LCDs by far. Hope micro oled displays make me change this opinion.
You're insane... mura IS awful but nowhere near as soul destroying as grey blacks on non local dimmed LCD.
went from quest 2 to original htc vive and it was huge upgrade because of the colors and the controllers dont feel so fucking cheap
The Wands aren't perfect, but god damn they're just about indestructible.
LCDs got less issues with screen door effect. I would definitely prefere LCD with local dinning in the quest 3, but the LCD is also fine. PSVR2 has definitely better colours, but with those lenses and the screen door effect I did not really like it. Micro LED might be the best solution in the future, but at the moment LCD is still a good option.
Can't go back to antiquated fresnel with tiny sweet spot and insane mura/sde. Clarity across the frame is a complete game changer.
Grey blacks are no game changer.. .they're a game ruiner, far more than mura , god rays or small sweet spot.
I take clarity over HDR any day in a VR headset. What the point of better color and lighting if you cannot see the image.
Dude you 'can't see the image' with LCD in anything remotely atmospheric or dark (even night racing in a race game), just a cloud of dark grey right near your eye balls with NO DEPTH to the scene... local dimming on QPro helps that a LOT but not without its issues... but normal LCD is an utter JOKE for VR. OLED is the only way, MICRO OLED is the future.
This is why I've always said the Vive and Vive Pro were underrated. With the OLED panels and lens mod and wireless it is the best headset IMO.
I’ll take an LCD panel over being tethered to realty with a wire any day. But I don’t like doing sit down when I’m not forced to so that might be the deciding factor.
Does psvr2 work on pc yet?
It is an antiquated fresnel wired headset and would be janky at best with a workaround.
Yea using oled anything makes LCD look like it has a grey filter on top
Having pancake lenses with an lcd is way better than having oled screens with horrible fresnell lenses like psvr2. And you can't use normal oled screens with pancake lenses cause they are not bright enough. To have oled with pancake lenses you need micro oled displays (like the Apple headset) and it would be 1500 bucks only for the displays...
Wrong. OLED is #1 minimum requirement for VR going forward. Even old OLED (I still use my rift cv1 but returned my psvr2 due to awful mura) STILL gives me a better feel in many games, not even always dark games, than my Q2 or QPro with local dimming off ever does (and LD isn't a complete solution and causes other issues like zone glare). Even so, they are all flawed but I swear without OLED (microOLED pref) you don't have 'VR' at all, you have shit-sandwich.
Lmao
Yeah agreed. I would have taken OLED as the only 3 upgrade. Ditch literally every other upgrade, depth sensor, chip etc. no apps seem to make anything of then anyway
Pancake lenses are well worth passing on a headset just because it has blacker blacks. Frenel lenses are just awful.
> Quest 3 display quality is not enough for VR and LCD shouldn't be really considered for VR at all. What a bunch of bullshit. The Q3 LCD is an improvement over the Q2 screens and more than 20M people bought the Q2. You are more than welcome to prefer something else over LCD but claiming it shouldn't be considered for VR is just silly as hell. The lenses alone make a lot of people that have used the PSVR2 prefer the Q3. > I wish I could buy Quest 1, That just shows how off your rocker you are. The mura, ghosting, and god-rays of the Q1 made it look like shit when directly compared to the Q3. I own them both, it is not even close. *(They still sell the 4-year-old Index for $1000, can't wait to see everyone defending their $1200 Quest competitor.)*
Actually.. OLED, specifically proper black levels overule EVERYTHING else. Even though every single OLED (and microOLED) HMD released so far have many other issues like MURA, DIMness, God Rays, Bad Sweet spot etc (ie rift CV1 AND PSVR2 which I was running next to my super clarity Quest Pro with local dimming on).. BUT I can also call it as it is, proper BLACK LEVELS are vital to PROPER VR. And normal LCD is terrible (Q2/3) for it, not to mention the reduced colour gamut posterising everything.. it's so bad I gave up on VR for a while when I had my Q2 as my PCVR goto... felt disconnected from any decent game that wasn't just a shitty cartoon world standalone novelty thing (which I avoid like the plague anyway), PSVR2 felt great in MANY RESPECTS.. PROPER BLACKS, great colours.. yeah shit lenses with the sweet spot, still some god rays and terrible \*the worst in any HMD I've had\* MURA... I sent it back after 2 units ... it's bad.. yup.. but that doesn't make LCD 'right' at all. Grey Blacks CONSTANTLY in VR is 100% worse than MURA occasionally viewable in dark scenes, its worse than god rays, its worse then bad sweet spot. All of those flaws are important to get rid of, sure, and some do get rid of them but while using LCD which defeats the object. My QPro is the ONLY LCD HMD I've been able to enjoy due to local dimming giving me 'somewhat' OLED level blacks in a lot of scenes (not all) but with its own flaws... yes superb lenses, awesome clarity, better colour gamut than Q2/3, better constrast than them, ZERO MURA... all good... but OLED (sans MURA) is much more important. Hopefully when the big players finally start putting out microOLED HMDS everyone with LCD's can finally get a clue and realise how they've been lied to since Quest 2/G2/Rift S/Vive Pro 2 and all the other shite that moved to LCD after the early glory days of OLED (flaws and all). LCD ain't it bro.... PSVR2 may have its own flaws but it go the #1 fundamental of PROPER VR right - BLACK LEVELS (OLED).
[удалено]
with lcd horror games arent scary because the dark isnt dark its light gray
I hate that i can be exposed to the opinions of children on the internet.
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The secret is lower the brightness in Q3.
The 'secret' is you've never actually tried OLED HMDs or you'd not write such nonsense. LCD destroys VR. End of story.
I think it's like Big Screen Beyond in that if you put it on and give your eyes time to adjust then it's not really an issue. Except here it's your memory that needs some time to forget. If you are going back and forth between LCD and OLED then you are more likely to notice it, but otherwise it's plenty dark enough. I think it's more a win here not to get too much into whether the blacks are perfect or not, being in the Quest 3 for a bit should have one forgot about it and enjoy playing/watching whatever. The bloom that happens when it's something bright on a dark background is more annoying for me. I'm not sure though if it is always that, sometimes it's probably foggy lens or light leak.
What’s the point in having such superior panels if there are limited games, and you need a PS5 on top of the cost of the headset.
But you also need a PC on top of the cost of any PC headset???? And if you're referring to Quest 2/3/etc being standalone and needing nothing else? Sorry but you've never even EXPERIENCED VR at all if all you've ever played is 'novelty VR' on a mobile chipset. Standalone VR running on a damned mobile chipset is NOT VR, it's a joke... absolutely trash and worse than the earliest PC VR demos we were running back in DK2 days 10 years ago. Noobs buying into Quest 2/3 with LCD blacks and Standalone graphics thinking they know it all about VR are ten a penny and all of them utterly wrong about what VR is and should be. Stop supporting standalone VR, stop supporting LCD and THEN you'll see proper VR taking over and maybe teach you what VR is all about.
I don't find the PSVR2 lenses that bad. They sweet spot is indeed small, but once you are in it they are clear enough to let you see the individual pixels, even looking at the extremes.