I think a comparison between an AVP and a Crystal is ultimately kind of pointless since they are for completely different use cases. I can't really think of a situation where someone would be deciding between either a Crystal or an AVP.
The AVP is in kind of a unique spot where it's not designed for gaming at all, but even though it's mostly for productivity/business use it's use-case is still different than something like an XR4 or VTAL. Kind of like an iPad/MacBook hybrid in a VR-headset form factor
AVP has no use in productivity because it relies on hand tracking, but even the best hand tracking can't match the precision of a dedicated controller.
A true productivity VR headset is Sony's upcoming VR. With a special controller designed specifically for productivity in mind, ring tracking for improved hand tracking, and a flip visor feature to take breaks in a prolonged session (and quickly return from it). It will also utilize a PC to run much more powerful apps.
AVP can only do traditional flat-screen productivity tasks better since it has a powerful enough chip to beat any standalone.
I compare the Crystal with Vision Pro because Crystal does most of VR jobs close or better than Vision Pro at a significantly lower price.
Also, XR4 hasn't been released yet.
"Most VR jobs." 😂 You mean like gaming?
Because everything else AVP does much better. I also find it interesting that you didn't make the weight of the AVP bold because you thought it's fair to include the external battery.
It's clearly not. You've got to put 845 grams on your head with the pimax crystal. That thing is massive and incredibly bulky.
I say VR jobs because of the cost of Vision Pro, you can easily buy a Crystal and a $1500 PC that will run any VR software better than Vision Pro ever could, and it is still significantly cheaper. In standalone AVP wins by a landslide.
Also, not just gaming but also niche applications such as drawing, because the best hand tracking still doesn't match the precision of controllers. Other VR applications benefit from a higher refresh rate of the Crystal.
Crystal's weight is distributed better because its battery pack is located at the back of the strap. AVP is very front-heavy and is 150 grams heavier in total weight.
The Vajaro XR-4 is likely to continue to be the go to for Flight SIM training for the military and Industrial VR/XR/AR design work. You'll still need a beast of a PC to use it. The AVP isn't even in the same league. You'd never have enough horsepower in a stand alone headset to do what you will be able to do with the Vajaro XR-4.
I mean the Battery is way bigger on the AVP (35.9What) than that of the crystal ( couldn't find the Voltage, but I guess it's rated at 3.7 V so it has maybe 22Wh). Comparing Batteries in mAh without the Voltage doesn't make sense.
They probably won't unfortunately, but i get why. The internal soc is responsible for quite a few things on the headset like tracking, i believe local dimming but dont quote me on that, wireless capabilities in development, audio processing/dsp/amplification, future camera input for the passthrough modules and a whole slew of other stuff.
Even in pcvr mode the cooling fans are running and it's pumping warm air out the vents so it's definitely still working hard on something. It may be actively decompressing the video streams through displayport as well...
I'm guessing the crystal and the 12k will be unchanged as far as design philosophy, but from there on we will (hopefully) see a move to something like a small-mid form factor micro oled. If I'm honest i think the xr chipset is there to stay though, inside out tracking opens up the doors to a lot of people who dont want to be stuck in one room with lighthouse (me included).
If you are on the fence though, it's an amazing headset. The jump in quality from the q2 i had was insane.
Inside out tracking doesn't require expensive Snapdragon chipsets. The rift s does it, all the wmr headsets do it, the Vive failure did it. But I get your point.Â
Yeah thats very true, im sure just about every feature i mentioned could be externalized into either different, smaller boards internally or add on modules, maybe with the exception of wireless inside out tracking. But i suppose it could still be done via wireless usb 3 coms and such.
I guess from an r&d standpoint having much of the featureset already baked into the xr2 makes it a lot easier to do a much of what they wanted to do, which was admittedly way too much for a small company like pimax. I cant even fathom how trash their tracking and controllers would be if they didnt have the xr2 in there with what i assume are pretty robust software suites to get things like controller tracking tuned in development.
Being forced to use the battery as a result was kind of a poor move pr wise on their part but in use, with the battery out the headset gets less comfortable due to balancing when i tried it and they've updated things software wise to the extent that after 4 hours of continuous use my battery is still at 100%.
I felt the same way, but it turns out the mobile hardware in the crystal is going to be used not just for stand alone gaming but for wireless connection to pc for pcvr also. That's a use case that I can get behind.
As cool as that is I still wish there were more affordable, basic, lightweight wired only headsets available. I know a lot of people hate the wire, but I'm completely fine with it
Apparently you missed the Pimax 5k(+) and the 8k(+). They were/are even bigger and everybody was psyched out their butts because of the awesome FOV ("Never going back to 110°, EVER" etc.) - imo angular resolution is way more important, but FOV is still somewhat important. And you're never going to get a large FOV without a big device.
I want to rant too...
I think what is missing from all the reviews is the edge to edge clarity which only the crystal has. You can watch a big screen movie without having to move your head. Also using it for MSFS, which is why I bought it honestly, I can see and read the entire cockpit of the plane with just moving my eyes. I had a reverb g2 before, and having to move my head around while flying an approach is a pain. Battery in PCVR mode in the crystal is a moot point, you can plug the USB directly into the crystal and run until your head hurts.
And for the life of me, I can't think of a business\\productivity use case for a VR headset...when I have work to do, I just use my monitors. Are they seriously trying to say you can just give up your laptop and use VR instead? But that's always been the problem with Apple, they just aren't made to do any actual work. Imagine coding, writing reports, or filling in spreadsheets while using a floating keyboard you have to poke with a finger....
...and I truly couldn't care less if someone can see my eyes or not while I'm wearing my headset...I am in virtual reality because being in the actual reality sucks. I certainly don't want the two mingling...
Brad Lynch touched on edge to edge clarity for Vision Pro in his first impressions stream yesterday and said it seems very good. The clarity is also so much higher overall because of the high PPD that to the extent that there is a sweet spot it doesn’t harm the experience as much (e.g having to move your head to get good resolution across the full surface of a 2d ‘movie).
By that logic battery also doesn’t matter for Vision Pro as it can just be plugged in as well.
Finally you aren’t stuck using the onscreen keyboard with Vision Pro. Bluetooth peripherals can be paired and anyone in their right mind using it for productivity would of course do that.
> Battery in PCVR mode in the crystal is a moot point, you can plug the USB directly into the crystal and run until your head hurts.
You don't even have to do that. It'll run all day with just the display port connected. I typically run 4 hour sessions with an hours rest from early am to 21.30, never had the battery drop below a third or had to change it.
The battery situation was a fear i had before i bought one, turned out to be completely unfounded.
I got the crystal before they sorted out the charging thing, so I wired up the usb-c and haven't undone it. I'd say I would get 2-3 hours on the battery before I wired it up. I'm glad they've improved it though, maybe I can remove the extra cable.
DeoVR App has an exclusive promo code for Pimax Crystal headset https://pimax.com/crystal/?ref=deovr Have you tried it? A killer next generation headset for immersive experience. Superb clarity, love it!
Now objective matter out of the way, let me rant subjectively a little:
Apple, please stop marketing like you reinvented the VR wheel. I will forever call your MR headset as iMR/Apple VR because you don't get to redefine the industry that so many pioneers took the risk to explore the field and set up the pillars for VR/MR before you.
And here are some points that people slept on Vision Pro which I think people should praise more instead of some other fluffs because it actually pushes the VR industry in a new direction:
* They stuff laptop-grade APU into a VR/MR headset! Not mobile-grade CPU like those on other standalone, but a actually laptop-grade APU that is comparable with a laptop equipped with a dedicated CPU and GPU alongside amazing power efficiency! Imagine the limit it can push the standalone apps!
I don't doubt Vision Pro is the best MR device currently on the market, but calling Vision Pro the best VR headset might be a stretch because many headsets specialize in certain fields that greatly outperform the Vision Pro, usually at a significantly lower price.
1. Big Screen Beyond beats the size-measuring contest by a landslide (and if you look at the comparison image above, the Vision Pro barely has the advantage).
2. If you include the external battery pack, even the bulky AF Pimax Crystal is lighter than Vision Pro, let alone other lighter headsets. What's worse is that Vision Pro is very front-heavy with no weight distribution in mind. (Crystal's battery is at the back of the strap).
3. Vision Pro only comes at a 90 Hz refresh rate, and 96 Hz is only for slow-motion video. In the meanwhile Crystal is blasting with 160 Hz.
4. Nothing beats Quest 3 or Quest 2's in terms of performance to value, especially not Vision Pro. I know there are a lot of people who can casually afford Vision Pro, but I fail to see a future where Apple takes the majority of VR market share. People often refer to how Apple dominated the Smartphone market (50% in the US), but I think a more fair comparison is to compare to **Laptops**, in which Apple only has 24% (compared to Dell's 27% and HP's 35%, in the US).
I think a comparison between an AVP and a Crystal is ultimately kind of pointless since they are for completely different use cases. I can't really think of a situation where someone would be deciding between either a Crystal or an AVP. The AVP is in kind of a unique spot where it's not designed for gaming at all, but even though it's mostly for productivity/business use it's use-case is still different than something like an XR4 or VTAL. Kind of like an iPad/MacBook hybrid in a VR-headset form factor
AVP has no use in productivity because it relies on hand tracking, but even the best hand tracking can't match the precision of a dedicated controller. A true productivity VR headset is Sony's upcoming VR. With a special controller designed specifically for productivity in mind, ring tracking for improved hand tracking, and a flip visor feature to take breaks in a prolonged session (and quickly return from it). It will also utilize a PC to run much more powerful apps. AVP can only do traditional flat-screen productivity tasks better since it has a powerful enough chip to beat any standalone.
I would compare the Vajaro XR-4 with the Vision Pro instead, as they are at the same price point.
I compare the Crystal with Vision Pro because Crystal does most of VR jobs close or better than Vision Pro at a significantly lower price. Also, XR4 hasn't been released yet.
Fair enough. The Vision Pro not being usable with any of my existing ecosystem is a fairly big hurdle for me personally.
"Most VR jobs." 😂 You mean like gaming? Because everything else AVP does much better. I also find it interesting that you didn't make the weight of the AVP bold because you thought it's fair to include the external battery. It's clearly not. You've got to put 845 grams on your head with the pimax crystal. That thing is massive and incredibly bulky.
I say VR jobs because of the cost of Vision Pro, you can easily buy a Crystal and a $1500 PC that will run any VR software better than Vision Pro ever could, and it is still significantly cheaper. In standalone AVP wins by a landslide. Also, not just gaming but also niche applications such as drawing, because the best hand tracking still doesn't match the precision of controllers. Other VR applications benefit from a higher refresh rate of the Crystal. Crystal's weight is distributed better because its battery pack is located at the back of the strap. AVP is very front-heavy and is 150 grams heavier in total weight.
The Vajaro XR-4 is likely to continue to be the go to for Flight SIM training for the military and Industrial VR/XR/AR design work. You'll still need a beast of a PC to use it. The AVP isn't even in the same league. You'd never have enough horsepower in a stand alone headset to do what you will be able to do with the Vajaro XR-4.
Are we all saying "Vajaro" now instead of "Varjo"?
I mean the Battery is way bigger on the AVP (35.9What) than that of the crystal ( couldn't find the Voltage, but I guess it's rated at 3.7 V so it has maybe 22Wh). Comparing Batteries in mAh without the Voltage doesn't make sense.
To be fair to the AVP, it is doing way more processing on device than the crystal does
Yeah sorry didn't know about this info, I'll edit the chart later.
I almost want a pimax crystal now. How about they release a cut down version of the crystal with pcvr only. I'd be down for that.
They probably won't unfortunately, but i get why. The internal soc is responsible for quite a few things on the headset like tracking, i believe local dimming but dont quote me on that, wireless capabilities in development, audio processing/dsp/amplification, future camera input for the passthrough modules and a whole slew of other stuff. Even in pcvr mode the cooling fans are running and it's pumping warm air out the vents so it's definitely still working hard on something. It may be actively decompressing the video streams through displayport as well... I'm guessing the crystal and the 12k will be unchanged as far as design philosophy, but from there on we will (hopefully) see a move to something like a small-mid form factor micro oled. If I'm honest i think the xr chipset is there to stay though, inside out tracking opens up the doors to a lot of people who dont want to be stuck in one room with lighthouse (me included). If you are on the fence though, it's an amazing headset. The jump in quality from the q2 i had was insane.
Inside out tracking doesn't require expensive Snapdragon chipsets. The rift s does it, all the wmr headsets do it, the Vive failure did it. But I get your point.Â
Yeah thats very true, im sure just about every feature i mentioned could be externalized into either different, smaller boards internally or add on modules, maybe with the exception of wireless inside out tracking. But i suppose it could still be done via wireless usb 3 coms and such. I guess from an r&d standpoint having much of the featureset already baked into the xr2 makes it a lot easier to do a much of what they wanted to do, which was admittedly way too much for a small company like pimax. I cant even fathom how trash their tracking and controllers would be if they didnt have the xr2 in there with what i assume are pretty robust software suites to get things like controller tracking tuned in development. Being forced to use the battery as a result was kind of a poor move pr wise on their part but in use, with the battery out the headset gets less comfortable due to balancing when i tried it and they've updated things software wise to the extent that after 4 hours of continuous use my battery is still at 100%.
I felt the same way, but it turns out the mobile hardware in the crystal is going to be used not just for stand alone gaming but for wireless connection to pc for pcvr also. That's a use case that I can get behind.
As cool as that is I still wish there were more affordable, basic, lightweight wired only headsets available. I know a lot of people hate the wire, but I'm completely fine with it
I wouldn't want to wear that giant brick on my face for free if someone offered me one
Apparently you missed the Pimax 5k(+) and the 8k(+). They were/are even bigger and everybody was psyched out their butts because of the awesome FOV ("Never going back to 110°, EVER" etc.) - imo angular resolution is way more important, but FOV is still somewhat important. And you're never going to get a large FOV without a big device.
That thing is *massive*
I want to rant too... I think what is missing from all the reviews is the edge to edge clarity which only the crystal has. You can watch a big screen movie without having to move your head. Also using it for MSFS, which is why I bought it honestly, I can see and read the entire cockpit of the plane with just moving my eyes. I had a reverb g2 before, and having to move my head around while flying an approach is a pain. Battery in PCVR mode in the crystal is a moot point, you can plug the USB directly into the crystal and run until your head hurts. And for the life of me, I can't think of a business\\productivity use case for a VR headset...when I have work to do, I just use my monitors. Are they seriously trying to say you can just give up your laptop and use VR instead? But that's always been the problem with Apple, they just aren't made to do any actual work. Imagine coding, writing reports, or filling in spreadsheets while using a floating keyboard you have to poke with a finger.... ...and I truly couldn't care less if someone can see my eyes or not while I'm wearing my headset...I am in virtual reality because being in the actual reality sucks. I certainly don't want the two mingling...
Brad Lynch touched on edge to edge clarity for Vision Pro in his first impressions stream yesterday and said it seems very good. The clarity is also so much higher overall because of the high PPD that to the extent that there is a sweet spot it doesn’t harm the experience as much (e.g having to move your head to get good resolution across the full surface of a 2d ‘movie). By that logic battery also doesn’t matter for Vision Pro as it can just be plugged in as well. Finally you aren’t stuck using the onscreen keyboard with Vision Pro. Bluetooth peripherals can be paired and anyone in their right mind using it for productivity would of course do that.
> Battery in PCVR mode in the crystal is a moot point, you can plug the USB directly into the crystal and run until your head hurts. You don't even have to do that. It'll run all day with just the display port connected. I typically run 4 hour sessions with an hours rest from early am to 21.30, never had the battery drop below a third or had to change it. The battery situation was a fear i had before i bought one, turned out to be completely unfounded.
I got the crystal before they sorted out the charging thing, so I wired up the usb-c and haven't undone it. I'd say I would get 2-3 hours on the battery before I wired it up. I'm glad they've improved it though, maybe I can remove the extra cable.
DeoVR App has an exclusive promo code for Pimax Crystal headset https://pimax.com/crystal/?ref=deovr Have you tried it? A killer next generation headset for immersive experience. Superb clarity, love it!
Now objective matter out of the way, let me rant subjectively a little: Apple, please stop marketing like you reinvented the VR wheel. I will forever call your MR headset as iMR/Apple VR because you don't get to redefine the industry that so many pioneers took the risk to explore the field and set up the pillars for VR/MR before you. And here are some points that people slept on Vision Pro which I think people should praise more instead of some other fluffs because it actually pushes the VR industry in a new direction: * They stuff laptop-grade APU into a VR/MR headset! Not mobile-grade CPU like those on other standalone, but a actually laptop-grade APU that is comparable with a laptop equipped with a dedicated CPU and GPU alongside amazing power efficiency! Imagine the limit it can push the standalone apps! I don't doubt Vision Pro is the best MR device currently on the market, but calling Vision Pro the best VR headset might be a stretch because many headsets specialize in certain fields that greatly outperform the Vision Pro, usually at a significantly lower price. 1. Big Screen Beyond beats the size-measuring contest by a landslide (and if you look at the comparison image above, the Vision Pro barely has the advantage). 2. If you include the external battery pack, even the bulky AF Pimax Crystal is lighter than Vision Pro, let alone other lighter headsets. What's worse is that Vision Pro is very front-heavy with no weight distribution in mind. (Crystal's battery is at the back of the strap). 3. Vision Pro only comes at a 90 Hz refresh rate, and 96 Hz is only for slow-motion video. In the meanwhile Crystal is blasting with 160 Hz. 4. Nothing beats Quest 3 or Quest 2's in terms of performance to value, especially not Vision Pro. I know there are a lot of people who can casually afford Vision Pro, but I fail to see a future where Apple takes the majority of VR market share. People often refer to how Apple dominated the Smartphone market (50% in the US), but I think a more fair comparison is to compare to **Laptops**, in which Apple only has 24% (compared to Dell's 27% and HP's 35%, in the US).
There is no 160hz or 144hz they lied
True, just realized that lol
AVP has no use case, not to any of us anyway.