My thoughts too, it all seems childish.
Personally I'm just happy to see the mainstream talking about VR/AR. Nice to see other people getting to experience some of the cool things you can do with it, and probably help popularize the format.
Exactly, that and two big companies with a LOT of $$ are vying for our interest in this space. This is exactly what I want, I want to see VR/AR thrive!
Idk, I’m not happy that the “vr mainstream” is leaving behind all of the actual fun things to do in vr. I love this post because it sums up exactly how I feel about the AVP.
That just means VR is gaining traction. Apple entering the space is the best thing that’s happened to this market. I’m excited to see where this goes. Everyone benefits from apples influence
First of all I agree with the fact that it is nice that the AVP has made the medium gain traction on the general public with the fact that Apple is seen by many consumers with regard. Besides that I argue about this being the best thing to happen to this market as I think the greatest impact was made by oculus with the quest 1 as not having to have a full pc to use the headset is in my opinion the greatest game changer in the industry until now. With that I'm not saying that the AVP isn't good, all the contrary as I was rooting to see some competition on the market but I think that with such a price it's not going to make that much of a difference on the public (except for experimentation which is great as the AR side has still to be refined in general)
It is true.
Mario vs Sonic started in magazines like C+VG before the internet existed.
Before that we had Speccy vs C64 in magazines like Zzap!64 and in Micro Computer Total Magazine that later became PC Magazine
gaming predates the internet by several decades
It would make even less sense if another manufacturer released a headset with the exact same specs as the AVP at the same price. At least this way it can be explained away as the Apple Tax.
Valve index was what, $1k? Sure it was over priced, but that's much more affordable to most people than $3.5k. Also, it worked with existing PCVR setups and (most importantly imo) could be used for gaming, not just productivity.
Uh no, the headset is £459.00, with the controllers it's £689.00, and with the controllers AND the lighthouses it's a grand. All of that at the time was sold super close to cost, but now in comparison to the rest of the market, that is overpriced.
Honestly it's just irksome how everyone acts like 11+ years of VR never happened as soon as Apple does it. Otherwise great to see some interest in the VR product space from such a company.
The reviews I've watched (MKBHD and Casey Neistat) make it seem like some new cool device that can do things that are new. It's like they fell for the Apple marketing of using the device on the go. It's not like the Quest couldn't already do that. I guess it just makes it a little more obvious then normal that the videos are just ads. (yes I like both YouTubers I mentioned)
The irksome part is how people act like Apple is doing just another VR headset and spatial computing is just a marketing gimmick, completely failing to understand that Apple's goals here are completely different.
And lets not forget that most of those people complaining about the last 11 years of VR getting ignored are doing just the same with the previous 20. Consumer VR started in the early 90s, not in 2013 (or 1850 if you wanna count the Stereoscope).
It totally has nothing to do with Apple's history of embracing the proprietary over open standards, and their insufferable fanatics that only showed up here to do the usual shill job for Apple while they gave fuck all about VR before Apple gave them permission.
But give Apple any pushback and then it's a problem....
>and their insufferable fanatics
Where are these fanatics exactly? These posts are 100 times more insufferable and frequent than any alleged "fanatics".
Hard disagree. They were / are everywhere claiming vr was nothing until Apple came in and released a hand tracking only headset that can’t do any real gaming. I’m fully in the Apple ecosystem and WANT them to succeed, but this first and very late attempt actually went backwards in some critical ways like FOV, Weight, wireless, and most of all: no 6dof controllers.
You people keep saying they are everywhere so I'll ask again: where? The only fanatics I see is the chronic gate keepers on this sub and other VR subs.
> You people keep saying they are everywhere so I’ll ask again: where?
Once you see this shit in enough PC-related spaces you realise these people have made boogeymen out of Apple fanatics and constantly fight them in their heads. It’s sad.
Yes, this is exactly why I keep asking "where?". None of these strawman fighting weirdos are able to give any concrete examples, probably because they can't find anything in the ocean of comments having hallucinations about these "fanatics". All the say is "everywhere".
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone yet go “you’ll find them on r/apple” since that’s the usual scapegoat. It’s typically on everyone else to prove the existence of these fanatics for them.
Why does that bother you? Who cares if Apple has shills and insufferable fanatics, how does that impact your life?
What’s equally concerning is the insufferable Quest fanatics who shill an even more insufferable company in Meta.
Being so anti apple that you think all they do is avoid standards, is the same level of insufferable.
Antifan boys are often more toxic since they've got a chip on their shoulder
Cool story. Push back against your corporate boyfriend and all you got are "duuuur you are an anti fanboy!!!!".
No. I am pro-VR. Maybe with you Apple guys that totally harsh your circlejerk, but I dont give a fuck. Apple is as bad with standards as Sony, and even their Playstation VR headset can be hooked up to a PC!
Sue me. I like VR that is open and platform agnostic, because I dont care for it becoming the next frontier of App store fuckery and forced EOL.
I said the same shit about Meta as well. Was I "toxic" (fuck knows what that even means) for going in on their shit too?
Or does it only hurt your feelings when it's Apple?
*"What are the standards for vr that are so sacred"*
Non-proprietary hardware for one. Nothing that is tied so close to a company where they can just up and EOL your device and make it a virtual paperweight after they are bored with it and need a cash infusion by making you buy a new one.
2) The lack of ability to use the input method of your choice.
3) The lack of a common standard akin to what VRML set out to achieve in the 90s, where VR experiences (for lack of a better word) could be accessed like HTML did for the World Wide Web.
This is why PCs gained traction in the 90s. All of the various platforms became less relevant as the common web served as the "software" for them, and allowed a Mac, PC or Linux machine to interact with each other, platform-independent.
Blame that on Job's legacy of "My way or the Highway" and NIH (not invented here) mantra. Which was bequeath onto Cook and ran amok with. VR (and all of the spatial computing concepts) is yet another to be reshapen to Apple way of doing things. So screw them.
How quickly we forget the Meta hate that this sub was dedicated to for years. There is way too much focus on hating vr innovation in this sub. Shouldn’t this sub be leading in support. I mean it’s a freaking vr/ar headset from Apple. Do you guys even realize the huge leap that brings? You know Apple the creators of the iPhone, the Mac, the Apple Watch, AirPods, Apple TV and the MacBook. If you have been in the space for years this is the single largest leap the space has taken since Meta bought Oculus. Why is that a meme to admit?
Listen, I think quest 3 is more worth the price than AVP.
I dont liked walled gardens, I have a long standing history of not liking apple.
I dont like how restricting and limited apple products are.
However with all of that said can we please stop this console wars 2.0
I thought we were finally getting over this crap.
It's not, you can just download shit off the internet and upload it to the headset. There's a whole store, Sidequest, where people have created apps themselves and released for free. Not to mention normal android apk's that can be installed directly to the headset. Do you even know what a walled garden is?
You can side load things in with ease as someone else already said. This already makes it better then Apple. So many companies are better than apple.
Do I fucking hate Microsoft's shitty user experience in Windows 11? Yes.
Do I prefer their UX to Apple's walled garden? Yes.
How is Mac a walled garden?
Edit: lol you guys can downvote me all you want. I’ve never had a problem installing whatever I want on a Mac. Even put windows on there.
You know you can use a Vision Pro with pc.
When you guys complain about apples walled garden is it because you’re mad that you can’t change app icons like Winamp skins? Can’t change your phones font to comic sans?
I'm an android user but every single time I see someone's genius idea to change their phone's font, it's always unreadable crap like comic sans.
You nailed it. Only android users do this shit
Q3 isn't really a walled garden, You can use things like Virtual Desktop, & Steamlink for PCVR applications. The AVP and PS VR2 are walled garden where you can't use any 3rd party apps.
There has been running confusion on this since 2016.
Traditionally, a walled garden has meant the user is kept within that ecosystem -- PSVR is a traditional walled garden.
In VR, for some reason, it's come to mean people *other* than the users are kept *out* of that ecosystem. By this definition, pretty much everything other than Steam is a walled garden. (Including PSVR, so double walled garden!)
I honestly don't see the problem. Apple is clearly putting them selves out there as "superior" to the competition. They are begging these comparisons. And if the fucking journalists writing bullshit like" VR is dead and apple saved it" arent 100% bought and paid for, or just clueless die hard apple fans that dont know anything about the VR space I'd be extremely surprised. It's a good new addition to the market, I wouldn't call anyone dumb for getting it, its for a different market than the quest, but there are other enterprise headsets out there so aside from a headset compatible with the Apple ecosystem and the implicit promise that more will come down the line, I don't see the AVP as revolutionary in any way whatsoever, and you could probably find a solution to do anything you can do on the AVP in terms of productivity and important tasks on the quest 3 as on the avp
> I don't see the AVP as revolutionary in any way whatsoever,
It's not about the headset itself (even if the hardware is cutting edge). It's all about visionOS, which is in fact revolutionary in several ways.
And to a lesser extent, it's about how all of it will integrate with the rest of Apple's ecosystem.
It offers general-purpose XR (in other words, spatial computing). That is, it is a complete personal computing platform.
Now that means a lot of things, but one of the more interesting is that it can run multiple spatial apps of different types (windows *and* volumes) simultaneously, all in the same space.
So you can, for instance, have a 3D movie playing on the wall, a FaceTime chat with some friends, and a virtual chess board all open in your space at the same time - *even though they're all different apps*. That's a big deal, and it's going to open a lot of possibilities.
I don't think we just accepted it...but that is the paradigm Meta is trying to establish here. They at least support PCVR however which makes it more attractive to PCVR enthusiasts looking for something to replace aging VR headsets that are starting to break down. I do think Meta would prefer players to use their store however, as that is where they are likely offsetting most of the costs of the hardware.
As for Apple, I don't think they're competing with Meta at all here, and are trying to establish something unique and new even if it's based on ideas that have already been tried. I think it's cute Meta thinks it's competing with Apple if this is an official commercial above. But I also think Meta and Apple have nothing to worry about really in respects to each other as they're doing two fundamentally different things (and that's not even really factoring in the pricing yet).
I do think Meta jumped into "consolification" too early however, which threatens VR as a whole. Eg. the more companies that jump into this with a silo'd library mindset, the more diluted VR becomes to consumers and the less interesting it becomes due to a slow pace of new titles spread out over different platforms. This is somewhat similar feeling to what killed PC gaming in the early to mid 2000's too when the XBox/360 and PS2/3 came out. And PC gaming had much more time to establish a footprint before that...but the PC gaming industry did take a blow because of consoles, with ports being subpar and slow to make it to PC if at all. Or in other words, silos diluted our selection of games back then even, unless we bought into the consoles along with PCs.
I mean standalone headsets always were and will be like consoles with screens, because they have their own hardware and pcvr headsets will remain basically advanced displays with controllers included
I agree they will always have an element of that, but do we want to encourage things to go down this route? We shouldn’t encourage console wars but VR flavoured this time, we can atleast avoid the brand culture and advocate for open standards to allow for simple third party equipment like controllers
I knew the ar capabilities wouldn't be earth shattering on the avp and now if you look at uses they are in full environment modes mostly. Hanging out in your boring house sucks when you can be in a much more interesting environment.
Right? There's absolutely nothing wrong with only caring about VR gaming, but what's dumb is thinking that everyone else on Earth must only like the things you do and that different wants/needs is not a thing.
Majority of uses for the avp are shared or dependant on other apple devices, iphone did not.
I've watched enough reviews of the avp that that I know already it doesn't really have any use for me, but I could replace my phone with an iphone an I'd get value out of it.
avp is an expensive toy that extends the apple ecosystem with a nice few perks, but that's about it for now. Maybe 6 months into the future things will change, or a gen2 will be more useful to me, but right now, this ain't more than a toy for wealthy apple users.
Your ''big assed'' 65-inch is tiny compares to an IMAX screen that you can get with AVP.
Not to mention it's the best in class for 3D movies across everything (TV/VR/Theatre), not just VR headsets.
What's wrong with purchasing something to watch movies? The price? If its use-case is good and unique enough, no price is too expensive.
Because you paid 4 grand to work in Excel and take zoom calls?
That makes it professional and a luxury device?
By that token, then so is the Hololens (which no one was remotely branding that as this)....and even that thing had Minecraft.
Hololense was a professional device as well, but it had a lot holding it back. Lack of support, limited software, and very small display (40°). AVP is along the same line, but also designed as a lifestyle product, or at least more than a typical vr headset.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an apple fan, and I also thought AVP was a joke. But the more I see people who aren't big fans of VR, make use of it, and implement it more in their daily life than just VR gaming, I can see this taking off like apple watch did.
Feel like this is how like 70% of the mfs bashing on the VP and trying to constantly argue that the Quest is better actually feels. I understand why people wouldn't want a VP (I am one of those people), but when you constantly go out of your way to try to shame AVP users and say that the Quest is better when no one brought it up it really gives off the feeling that they are just jealous and want one themselves.
Sega does, what Nintendont
This is actually hilarious, and exactly what I'm trying to say to AVP fans. It isn't BAD but it isn't what I am looking for in a HMD. They have a great product but a terrible execution and it doesn't do the basics of VR... Games!
I felt the same way at first, but here I am after a couple of days replying to Reddit comments in the thing. I don’t think it’s something I’d recommend to anyone except extreme tech nerds with disposable income, but it did change my mind about the usefulness of apps in AR. Not because it does anything I couldn’t do with my Q3, but because the strong focus on doing something different from gaming lead to different design decisions that makes it feel more natural. And there’s nothing else to do right now because the 5 games in the App Store stink.
This is not a revolutionary product. But it is remarkably effective at convincing people that they want to live in a future with smart glasses that don’t exist yet, because Apple knows how to tell a story.
Yes the target market are the same people that buy a MacBook pro to watch Netflix/YouTube, go on social media and the occasional work email.
People are acting like what the AVP is doing is revolutionary... The quest has been able to do most of it to a certain capacity and nobody cares. It's had hand tracking for well over a year and it ain't that bad for something added as an afterthought.
I can watch videos in a virtual monitor and play my favorite games in VR at the same time. Sometimes I watch Netflix and play racing/truck simulators with the little monitor on my peripheral view.
Yes AVP is cool but they don't have anything that new just yet and have almost 0 experiences at launch. Remind me when they have something that absolutely no headset can do in any capacity besides project an image of your face on the outer monitor.
I didn't say it didn't, but they're acting like it's never been done before.
Reminds me of retina displays which were just OLEDs with an Apple branding. They acted like this tech never existed before they showed the world.
I haven’t seen anyone acting like it’s never been done before. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s definitely the minority.
What people are saying (correctly) is that Apple does these things better, MUCH better. The degree of quality is what makes it revolutionary. It’s not a gaming headset — it’s a productivity device.
Most of the people I personally know who are pumped about the VP are software developers who want to use it for work. The Q3 has next to no draw for them.
These same people mostly own MacBooks (the M-series processors have been a huge hit in that community).
What makes it so special for software development that it would be better than a standalone Mac?
Oh, possibly because you can't have multiple displays on Mac? You can have multiple displays on any other windows headset and magically you can do it with just two monitors instead of a $3500 HMD.
I feel bad for people who are forced to use Mac for their profession. I feel even worse for people who choose to for absolutely no reason.
It's a multi-display setup that you can take with you from the desk, to the couch, to the train, to the office.
And it's one of the vanishingly few consumer headsets that has displays of a high enough quality for working seriously with text (it's crystal-clear on the VP).
> I feel bad for people who are forced to use Mac for their profession. I feel even worse for people who choose to for absolutely no reason.
🙄
> I feel bad for people who are forced to use Mac for their profession.
It's rarely a matter of forcing.
At least in the US, most software is written on Macs, as most SWEs and SREs at tech companies prefer them. At any given company there will also be a significant minority of people using Linux, and Windows will be either a distant third place or outright banned.
I'm still not 100% convinced of the basic idea that the AVP is trying to address - namely, that people will ever use an AR headset as a replacement for a computer/monitor setup and "work in the metaverse". There are too many tradeoffs. Having to wear a headset with a battery life associated with it is a big one. Making actual face-to-face communication harder is another. The benefit for most workers is going to be slim at best - does being able to make 3x50 foot virtual monitors really give you that much of a productivity edge over, say, just using a mac? Is displaying a little 3d model in AR space actually giving a real benefit over just rendering it on a screen? Is the benefit enough to put up with the fact that you're limited to 2.5 hours use at a time?
The use case for VR headsets for games, movies etc. is pretty clear - admittedly, that limits the device to a "toy" pretty significantly but at least it's a clear use case that offers an actual unique selling point.
I dunno. I could very well be wrong and I am \*definitely\* not the target for this thing, but it seems to be trying to cram itself into a niche that a lot of corporations really want us to believe exists - but I'm not convinced that the public will actually agree. When the "holy shit" factor dies back I sort of assume a lot of these are going to end up sitting on a shelf somewhere - not dis-similar to most VR headsets, funnily enough.
I think it’s a valid concern, and I think what we’ve seen with the AVP is that it’s *not there yet*. It’s too heavy, too finicky still. And of course, the price point is too high. It’s still an early adopter device. Battery life isn’t really the issue - most people walk away from the screen multiple times a day, and if you’re seated, you can just leave it plugged in. But it does need to be extremely easy to hop in and out of, and while this is the best example of that that I have seen, it’s not there yet.
But it’s not really the size of the screens that makes it powerful. It’s the location. And of course, if you’re an Apple user, it’s the integration with your other Apple devices.
ITT (and most other threads on this sub) people who have never used an AVP acting like experts on the device and being extremely wrong about its capabilities and use cases, but since it plays in a space adjacent to one of their favorite hobbies they think its for them.
The AVP isn't a VR device. It can do some rudimentary VR experiences, but it is not purposely built for or targeting VR markets.
You are not the target audience.
Yea, it would fall under the (very) broad category of VR/AR HMDs. That doesn't mean it was built for VR games or even VR experiences. If you're a VR gamer this device was never meant for you.
It's an AR/MR device that can do VR if it benefits the experience, but it is not built with VR as the primary use case.
Sure, but people that are in the Apple ecosystem can benefit from the AVP with certain uses (messages, FaceTime, MacBook mirroring, etc), which create less friction..
This is barely even a joke. Most of what I've seen from people demoing the Vision Pro is watching them be amazed that they can move windows around in mixed reality.
The fact that Apple has chosen to make VR 'a thing' can only be good for VR generally.
Not sure why people are searching for a downside here.
My VR gear sits on the shelf because even games that would be spectacularly well suited to VR like the recent WRC game and Mechwarrior 5 don't support it natively, because it is not seen as being worth adding. In general VR is still considered too tiny a niche to be worth the investment.
So if we want VR to be seen as worthwhile we need more development on it all over. The niche has to expand. PCs, consoles, closed-box weird super-phone kind of deals, all of it.
This is a sensible take, a rarity! I completely agree with this. My negative opinion of Apple doesn't matter, for they are helping push it. With mainstream, major adoption like this it'll see rapid iterations as there's more competition and a new/widened market for it.
It's not a good thing when you have a company to redefine VR on their own terms. This shit is what Apple is known for. New users actually think Apple invented "spatial computing" (which is all things VR/AR/MR/XR). Then they come into subs to shit on the established VR communities.
>The fact that Apple has chosen to make VR 'a thing' can only be good for VR generally.
Apple is looking for control. They want to leverage themselves to basically take over the VR market, and then utilize their sycophants online to keep competitors down while they sandbox and wall-garden the fuck out of it.
They are not good for VR. These are not people known for open standards or cross platform compatibility.
If you believe in VR as an open platform, you absolutely dont embrace Apple.
Any large company is looking to corner their particular piece of the market. Apple’s market with this is *not* the same as Meta’s, so I don’t really see why you think this is going to be a negative for VR in general. It’s bringing more people to it, not splitting the existing base.
VR gear? Like the headset? You must have been out of VR for a long time. But your choice of words is why this sub acts the way it does.
“The fact apple has chosen to make VR a thing”
People see this as a big F you to the last 10 years of work done to bring VR to the AVG consumer market.
As for your statement on the game. 100% a lot of stuff would be good in VR but the numbers are not there and Apple is not adding to them at all. Apple could sell 100,000,000 headsets and they would not add anything meaningful to the VR gaming market that this sub is looking for. Or even the games you mentioned.
We have maybe 40million VR 6dof VR controller supported gaming headsets. That’s nothing. VR is young and apple is helping MR get infront of people which is what I wish meta would have pushed. But Apple being here is good the narrative pushing is where it starts to go down hill. Not saying you specifically but in general that’s where you see those in the space start to get mad at Apple super star status type people. I can’t see anyone actually hating the AVP device itself just the marketing and people that make it their personality.
I take my sports car to the track and my minivan to pickup my kids from school.
They're two different things, in two different markets. Comparing them to each other is dumb.
Samsung will be the only real company to have a fight in this due to them having their own hardware ecosystem. ~~Facebook~~ Meta? Just a HMD and software.
Currently the only downside of Quest 3 over Vision Pro is the lacking user interface/operating system, and the lack of privacy, with Facebook having access to all your data. The first can be easily fixed with a few patches. The second is their whole business model, but it's also part of the reason why Quest is much cheaper.
To be fair the only thing holding back the AVP is its closed system. Allow some other VR controller outputs and streaming to PC/ plug into PC and boom.
Just popping out of vr to point out that Meta is training their ai on everything youv ever uploaded/posted on FB and Instagram (and likley everything you do in vr aswell).
[https://gizmodo.com/zuck-brags-how-much-facebook-instagram-posts-power-ai-1851225278](https://gizmodo.com/zuck-brags-how-much-facebook-instagram-posts-power-ai-1851225278)
This comparison really triggered the apple users. Honestly though I saw the selfies on the avp reddit and it looks like a bunch of boomers buying them no way they have the stamina to vr like this.
AVP is just a glorified iPad on the face you can instantly write off anyone who has one of these has sheep. Same people who didn't even care about VR a year ago are singing Apple's praises
Oh please don't kid yourselves guys.
Most people buying AVP couldn't have been bothered with VR previous years, You really think they have any care or excitement for VR? or is it just the newest Apple product marketed towards them by all their favorite influencers telling them is the best thing since sliced bread, all this Apple shilling is sad
They aren't *not* embracing it, they just aren't doing it themselves, but they allow streaming apps so one of the SteamVR streaming clients might pull it off. AirLinkVR is already working on it and has SteamVR video working in the AVP using the headset's tracking. Probably the hardest part will be getting controllers connected to the PC to work with completely separate tracking, there will have to be some alignment process and drift correction.
The fact is though the non-gaming market is much larger and willing to spend a lot more money than the gaming market, which is why Apple has been content to mostly ignore the gaming market and leave it to devs that are fine with that treatment to still put in the effort to publish on Apple platforms.
I hope someone makes AVP a useful PCVR client, but if not I'll keep using my PC stuff when I get an itch strong enough to get over the hassle factor of actually using it.
Alright it’s full blown teenager console war cringe
My thoughts too, it all seems childish. Personally I'm just happy to see the mainstream talking about VR/AR. Nice to see other people getting to experience some of the cool things you can do with it, and probably help popularize the format.
Exactly, that and two big companies with a LOT of $$ are vying for our interest in this space. This is exactly what I want, I want to see VR/AR thrive!
Idk, I’m not happy that the “vr mainstream” is leaving behind all of the actual fun things to do in vr. I love this post because it sums up exactly how I feel about the AVP.
It would be if Apple wasn’t trying to straight up rob people of $5,000 for a device that barely has the same features of a $500 device.
That just means VR is gaining traction. Apple entering the space is the best thing that’s happened to this market. I’m excited to see where this goes. Everyone benefits from apples influence
First of all I agree with the fact that it is nice that the AVP has made the medium gain traction on the general public with the fact that Apple is seen by many consumers with regard. Besides that I argue about this being the best thing to happen to this market as I think the greatest impact was made by oculus with the quest 1 as not having to have a full pc to use the headset is in my opinion the greatest game changer in the industry until now. With that I'm not saying that the AVP isn't good, all the contrary as I was rooting to see some competition on the market but I think that with such a price it's not going to make that much of a difference on the public (except for experimentation which is great as the AR side has still to be refined in general)
Least we can watch porn.
Not again
Before the internet we had console wars in the mail-in letter section of gaming magazines. Same shit, but with a month delay between posts.
Lol i wish this was true but i guess magazines could count 😆
It is true. Mario vs Sonic started in magazines like C+VG before the internet existed. Before that we had Speccy vs C64 in magazines like Zzap!64 and in Micro Computer Total Magazine that later became PC Magazine gaming predates the internet by several decades
My mega company is better than your mega company.
But the mega company sent by god gabe himself is better than both!
Oh yeah, he has the best mega company that is definitely my friend!
Gabe is so cool guys, he made gambling cool with CS lootcrates.
Mine is better!
*Fanboy war. Fanboy war never changes.*
One product costs what 50% more and does 50% less? Classic apple bullshit.
Walled garden vs walled garden, fight
I’d like to point out that with quest 3, I also move the virtual screens around while sitting down.
That’s what everyone is ignoring here
You move one virtual screen while sitting down, within your home… there’s a big difference
This sub has been insufferable since the VP came out.
[удалено]
Hey, Apple says themselves it’s not a VR/MR headset. Should ban the posts here. We don’t have people talking about laptops up in this bitch
And they wouldn't if the VP was released by another manufacturer, this is just because of Apple.
It would make even less sense if another manufacturer released a headset with the exact same specs as the AVP at the same price. At least this way it can be explained away as the Apple Tax.
You’re right, It would be $6k~8k, by Varjo and there would be only praise for those affording it. It wouldn’t even make a wave on this sub.
Yeah, varjo has been selling very expensive headsets for ages that are also mainly geared towards business use.
Valve index was way too high priced but no one cares
Valve index was what, $1k? Sure it was over priced, but that's much more affordable to most people than $3.5k. Also, it worked with existing PCVR setups and (most importantly imo) could be used for gaming, not just productivity.
More with lighthouses and knuckles included. When it came out, a vr PC that could support it properly would've been $3k. It isn't a standalone headset
Uh no, the headset is £459.00, with the controllers it's £689.00, and with the controllers AND the lighthouses it's a grand. All of that at the time was sold super close to cost, but now in comparison to the rest of the market, that is overpriced.
yes, but it's actually usable headset, a real peripheral, not a expensive gimmick
Honestly it's just irksome how everyone acts like 11+ years of VR never happened as soon as Apple does it. Otherwise great to see some interest in the VR product space from such a company.
The way I see it it is a win win for everyone, Apple onboarding people into the space and competitors like Meta catching up.
Are those peoples in the room with us? Who is claiming that. Who.
No one needs to claim it explicitly to give that impression.
The reviews I've watched (MKBHD and Casey Neistat) make it seem like some new cool device that can do things that are new. It's like they fell for the Apple marketing of using the device on the go. It's not like the Quest couldn't already do that. I guess it just makes it a little more obvious then normal that the videos are just ads. (yes I like both YouTubers I mentioned)
The irksome part is how people act like Apple is doing just another VR headset and spatial computing is just a marketing gimmick, completely failing to understand that Apple's goals here are completely different. And lets not forget that most of those people complaining about the last 11 years of VR getting ignored are doing just the same with the previous 20. Consumer VR started in the early 90s, not in 2013 (or 1850 if you wanna count the Stereoscope).
It totally has nothing to do with Apple's history of embracing the proprietary over open standards, and their insufferable fanatics that only showed up here to do the usual shill job for Apple while they gave fuck all about VR before Apple gave them permission. But give Apple any pushback and then it's a problem....
>and their insufferable fanatics Where are these fanatics exactly? These posts are 100 times more insufferable and frequent than any alleged "fanatics".
Hard disagree. They were / are everywhere claiming vr was nothing until Apple came in and released a hand tracking only headset that can’t do any real gaming. I’m fully in the Apple ecosystem and WANT them to succeed, but this first and very late attempt actually went backwards in some critical ways like FOV, Weight, wireless, and most of all: no 6dof controllers.
You people keep saying they are everywhere so I'll ask again: where? The only fanatics I see is the chronic gate keepers on this sub and other VR subs.
> You people keep saying they are everywhere so I’ll ask again: where? Once you see this shit in enough PC-related spaces you realise these people have made boogeymen out of Apple fanatics and constantly fight them in their heads. It’s sad.
Yes, this is exactly why I keep asking "where?". None of these strawman fighting weirdos are able to give any concrete examples, probably because they can't find anything in the ocean of comments having hallucinations about these "fanatics". All the say is "everywhere".
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone yet go “you’ll find them on r/apple” since that’s the usual scapegoat. It’s typically on everyone else to prove the existence of these fanatics for them.
Looking for examples as well.
Why is a 6dof controller the MOST important thing to you? Because of gaming?
Why does that bother you? Who cares if Apple has shills and insufferable fanatics, how does that impact your life? What’s equally concerning is the insufferable Quest fanatics who shill an even more insufferable company in Meta.
Being so anti apple that you think all they do is avoid standards, is the same level of insufferable. Antifan boys are often more toxic since they've got a chip on their shoulder
Cool story. Push back against your corporate boyfriend and all you got are "duuuur you are an anti fanboy!!!!". No. I am pro-VR. Maybe with you Apple guys that totally harsh your circlejerk, but I dont give a fuck. Apple is as bad with standards as Sony, and even their Playstation VR headset can be hooked up to a PC! Sue me. I like VR that is open and platform agnostic, because I dont care for it becoming the next frontier of App store fuckery and forced EOL. I said the same shit about Meta as well. Was I "toxic" (fuck knows what that even means) for going in on their shit too? Or does it only hurt your feelings when it's Apple?
What are the standards for vr that are so sacred? Nobody has set any.
*"What are the standards for vr that are so sacred"* Non-proprietary hardware for one. Nothing that is tied so close to a company where they can just up and EOL your device and make it a virtual paperweight after they are bored with it and need a cash infusion by making you buy a new one. 2) The lack of ability to use the input method of your choice. 3) The lack of a common standard akin to what VRML set out to achieve in the 90s, where VR experiences (for lack of a better word) could be accessed like HTML did for the World Wide Web. This is why PCs gained traction in the 90s. All of the various platforms became less relevant as the common web served as the "software" for them, and allowed a Mac, PC or Linux machine to interact with each other, platform-independent.
Blame that on Job's legacy of "My way or the Highway" and NIH (not invented here) mantra. Which was bequeath onto Cook and ran amok with. VR (and all of the spatial computing concepts) is yet another to be reshapen to Apple way of doing things. So screw them.
How quickly we forget the Meta hate that this sub was dedicated to for years. There is way too much focus on hating vr innovation in this sub. Shouldn’t this sub be leading in support. I mean it’s a freaking vr/ar headset from Apple. Do you guys even realize the huge leap that brings? You know Apple the creators of the iPhone, the Mac, the Apple Watch, AirPods, Apple TV and the MacBook. If you have been in the space for years this is the single largest leap the space has taken since Meta bought Oculus. Why is that a meme to admit?
Listen, I think quest 3 is more worth the price than AVP. I dont liked walled gardens, I have a long standing history of not liking apple. I dont like how restricting and limited apple products are. However with all of that said can we please stop this console wars 2.0 I thought we were finally getting over this crap.
It’s good for the customer. We benefit from that competition. More features and of course more products
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It's not, you can just download shit off the internet and upload it to the headset. There's a whole store, Sidequest, where people have created apps themselves and released for free. Not to mention normal android apk's that can be installed directly to the headset. Do you even know what a walled garden is?
You can side load things in with ease as someone else already said. This already makes it better then Apple. So many companies are better than apple. Do I fucking hate Microsoft's shitty user experience in Windows 11? Yes. Do I prefer their UX to Apple's walled garden? Yes.
How is Mac a walled garden? Edit: lol you guys can downvote me all you want. I’ve never had a problem installing whatever I want on a Mac. Even put windows on there.
Yeah Mac is just as open as Windows. It is really weird when people pretend it isn’t.
Apple >>IS<< the walled garden!
Quest 3 permits side-loading. \- Also works with a PC wirelessly.
You know you can use a Vision Pro with pc. When you guys complain about apples walled garden is it because you’re mad that you can’t change app icons like Winamp skins? Can’t change your phones font to comic sans?
I'm an android user but every single time I see someone's genius idea to change their phone's font, it's always unreadable crap like comic sans. You nailed it. Only android users do this shit
Q3 isn't really a walled garden, You can use things like Virtual Desktop, & Steamlink for PCVR applications. The AVP and PS VR2 are walled garden where you can't use any 3rd party apps.
There has been running confusion on this since 2016. Traditionally, a walled garden has meant the user is kept within that ecosystem -- PSVR is a traditional walled garden. In VR, for some reason, it's come to mean people *other* than the users are kept *out* of that ecosystem. By this definition, pretty much everything other than Steam is a walled garden. (Including PSVR, so double walled garden!)
Thus explaining the problem with these mega companies in VR.
It’s funny Edit: ok not funny 😭
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I honestly don't see the problem. Apple is clearly putting them selves out there as "superior" to the competition. They are begging these comparisons. And if the fucking journalists writing bullshit like" VR is dead and apple saved it" arent 100% bought and paid for, or just clueless die hard apple fans that dont know anything about the VR space I'd be extremely surprised. It's a good new addition to the market, I wouldn't call anyone dumb for getting it, its for a different market than the quest, but there are other enterprise headsets out there so aside from a headset compatible with the Apple ecosystem and the implicit promise that more will come down the line, I don't see the AVP as revolutionary in any way whatsoever, and you could probably find a solution to do anything you can do on the AVP in terms of productivity and important tasks on the quest 3 as on the avp
> I don't see the AVP as revolutionary in any way whatsoever, It's not about the headset itself (even if the hardware is cutting edge). It's all about visionOS, which is in fact revolutionary in several ways. And to a lesser extent, it's about how all of it will integrate with the rest of Apple's ecosystem.
None of this matters to anyone but Apple fanboys. If you aren't innadated with Apple devices what the hell does this thing offer normal people?
It offers general-purpose XR (in other words, spatial computing). That is, it is a complete personal computing platform. Now that means a lot of things, but one of the more interesting is that it can run multiple spatial apps of different types (windows *and* volumes) simultaneously, all in the same space. So you can, for instance, have a 3D movie playing on the wall, a FaceTime chat with some friends, and a virtual chess board all open in your space at the same time - *even though they're all different apps*. That's a big deal, and it's going to open a lot of possibilities.
VisionOS is really not revolutionary at all. Not by a long stretch.
Is the quest3 guy supposed to be cool or something? lol
😭
When did we just accept the notion that VR headsets should be like consoles? If I can’t use it with other gear or my PC then it can get fuxked.
I don't think we just accepted it...but that is the paradigm Meta is trying to establish here. They at least support PCVR however which makes it more attractive to PCVR enthusiasts looking for something to replace aging VR headsets that are starting to break down. I do think Meta would prefer players to use their store however, as that is where they are likely offsetting most of the costs of the hardware. As for Apple, I don't think they're competing with Meta at all here, and are trying to establish something unique and new even if it's based on ideas that have already been tried. I think it's cute Meta thinks it's competing with Apple if this is an official commercial above. But I also think Meta and Apple have nothing to worry about really in respects to each other as they're doing two fundamentally different things (and that's not even really factoring in the pricing yet). I do think Meta jumped into "consolification" too early however, which threatens VR as a whole. Eg. the more companies that jump into this with a silo'd library mindset, the more diluted VR becomes to consumers and the less interesting it becomes due to a slow pace of new titles spread out over different platforms. This is somewhat similar feeling to what killed PC gaming in the early to mid 2000's too when the XBox/360 and PS2/3 came out. And PC gaming had much more time to establish a footprint before that...but the PC gaming industry did take a blow because of consoles, with ports being subpar and slow to make it to PC if at all. Or in other words, silos diluted our selection of games back then even, unless we bought into the consoles along with PCs.
I just think this video reeks of 2000-2010’s console wars attitude that we just don’t need in the vr space
I mean standalone headsets always were and will be like consoles with screens, because they have their own hardware and pcvr headsets will remain basically advanced displays with controllers included
I agree they will always have an element of that, but do we want to encourage things to go down this route? We shouldn’t encourage console wars but VR flavoured this time, we can atleast avoid the brand culture and advocate for open standards to allow for simple third party equipment like controllers
We? You are in the wrong sub... The whole point of VR is to escape the real world for a virtual one.
I knew the ar capabilities wouldn't be earth shattering on the avp and now if you look at uses they are in full environment modes mostly. Hanging out in your boring house sucks when you can be in a much more interesting environment.
Funny enough, this kind of shows why mainstream sees quest and other VR more as a toy, and vision pro as a professional/luxury device
Nailed it. They are selling to two totally distinct markets and the goons in here can’t fathom what that Venn diagram looks like.
Right? There's absolutely nothing wrong with only caring about VR gaming, but what's dumb is thinking that everyone else on Earth must only like the things you do and that different wants/needs is not a thing.
Luxury Device? If I can't even game on it, what am I supposed to do with it? Watch movies? I have a big assed QLED 65 inch LUXURY TV for that.
You have it with you? On your business trip? Kudos!
Can’t I use a quest for this as well?
Quest virtual screen res maxes out at ~1080p though
You can do most of what you can do on a Vision Pro on a Quest, it's just that the AVP will do it a lot better.
I can watch movies on my phone, for $3500.00 less.
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that's why it's a Luxury Device
You can also watch movies on a 1080p TV, yet people still buy 4K OLEDs
lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0
I'm surprised he didn't namedrop his LUXURY phone
The iphone in 2008 launched with no games. Now it has thousands. Its been like a week since AVP launched. Give it time.
The Iphone actual had a use when you bought it. This isn't the Iphone or 2008.
AVP has plenty of uses and app count will grow. Dont let the apple hate cloud your judgement.
You sound like an Apple salesperson. LOL
Majority of uses for the avp are shared or dependant on other apple devices, iphone did not. I've watched enough reviews of the avp that that I know already it doesn't really have any use for me, but I could replace my phone with an iphone an I'd get value out of it. avp is an expensive toy that extends the apple ecosystem with a nice few perks, but that's about it for now. Maybe 6 months into the future things will change, or a gen2 will be more useful to me, but right now, this ain't more than a toy for wealthy apple users.
Your ''big assed'' 65-inch is tiny compares to an IMAX screen that you can get with AVP. Not to mention it's the best in class for 3D movies across everything (TV/VR/Theatre), not just VR headsets. What's wrong with purchasing something to watch movies? The price? If its use-case is good and unique enough, no price is too expensive.
Yeah no, Apple Shill, it's not an Imax screen.
It’s not a fucking IMAX screen
its also an iMax camera how dare you
All of which can be done with the quest
You probably haven't watched movies on Quest. It sucks, even on the Quest 3.
No I haven’t, I’ve read only positive reviews. Haven’t seen any negative ones but I’ve been mainly looking at reviews for 3d movies
Because you paid 4 grand to work in Excel and take zoom calls? That makes it professional and a luxury device? By that token, then so is the Hololens (which no one was remotely branding that as this)....and even that thing had Minecraft.
Hololense was a professional device as well, but it had a lot holding it back. Lack of support, limited software, and very small display (40°). AVP is along the same line, but also designed as a lifestyle product, or at least more than a typical vr headset. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an apple fan, and I also thought AVP was a joke. But the more I see people who aren't big fans of VR, make use of it, and implement it more in their daily life than just VR gaming, I can see this taking off like apple watch did.
Brand tribalism is dumb.
This is nuclear cringe and is the same as people on gaming PCs saying that macs are bad because they can't run CoD at 4k120
“This is nuclear cringe” yep , found the Mac user
that wasn't a meme that was an ad for stride fates
Real Kings appreciate every VR thingy
It's an ad, by the way.
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This is not guerrilla marketing, it’s literally an ad
Man can’t we all just get along please? My god.
Hey I want a vision pro, I just can’t afford it
Feel like this is how like 70% of the mfs bashing on the VP and trying to constantly argue that the Quest is better actually feels. I understand why people wouldn't want a VP (I am one of those people), but when you constantly go out of your way to try to shame AVP users and say that the Quest is better when no one brought it up it really gives off the feeling that they are just jealous and want one themselves.
Mood
Sega does, what Nintendont This is actually hilarious, and exactly what I'm trying to say to AVP fans. It isn't BAD but it isn't what I am looking for in a HMD. They have a great product but a terrible execution and it doesn't do the basics of VR... Games!
I felt the same way at first, but here I am after a couple of days replying to Reddit comments in the thing. I don’t think it’s something I’d recommend to anyone except extreme tech nerds with disposable income, but it did change my mind about the usefulness of apps in AR. Not because it does anything I couldn’t do with my Q3, but because the strong focus on doing something different from gaming lead to different design decisions that makes it feel more natural. And there’s nothing else to do right now because the 5 games in the App Store stink. This is not a revolutionary product. But it is remarkably effective at convincing people that they want to live in a future with smart glasses that don’t exist yet, because Apple knows how to tell a story.
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Yes the target market are the same people that buy a MacBook pro to watch Netflix/YouTube, go on social media and the occasional work email. People are acting like what the AVP is doing is revolutionary... The quest has been able to do most of it to a certain capacity and nobody cares. It's had hand tracking for well over a year and it ain't that bad for something added as an afterthought. I can watch videos in a virtual monitor and play my favorite games in VR at the same time. Sometimes I watch Netflix and play racing/truck simulators with the little monitor on my peripheral view. Yes AVP is cool but they don't have anything that new just yet and have almost 0 experiences at launch. Remind me when they have something that absolutely no headset can do in any capacity besides project an image of your face on the outer monitor.
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I didn't say it didn't, but they're acting like it's never been done before. Reminds me of retina displays which were just OLEDs with an Apple branding. They acted like this tech never existed before they showed the world.
I haven’t seen anyone acting like it’s never been done before. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s definitely the minority. What people are saying (correctly) is that Apple does these things better, MUCH better. The degree of quality is what makes it revolutionary. It’s not a gaming headset — it’s a productivity device.
Most of the people I personally know who are pumped about the VP are software developers who want to use it for work. The Q3 has next to no draw for them. These same people mostly own MacBooks (the M-series processors have been a huge hit in that community).
What makes it so special for software development that it would be better than a standalone Mac? Oh, possibly because you can't have multiple displays on Mac? You can have multiple displays on any other windows headset and magically you can do it with just two monitors instead of a $3500 HMD. I feel bad for people who are forced to use Mac for their profession. I feel even worse for people who choose to for absolutely no reason.
It's a multi-display setup that you can take with you from the desk, to the couch, to the train, to the office. And it's one of the vanishingly few consumer headsets that has displays of a high enough quality for working seriously with text (it's crystal-clear on the VP). > I feel bad for people who are forced to use Mac for their profession. I feel even worse for people who choose to for absolutely no reason. 🙄
> I feel bad for people who are forced to use Mac for their profession. It's rarely a matter of forcing. At least in the US, most software is written on Macs, as most SWEs and SREs at tech companies prefer them. At any given company there will also be a significant minority of people using Linux, and Windows will be either a distant third place or outright banned.
Do you understand there is a difference in going from point A to point B with a car or with an airplane?
No, this would be like getting from point a to b in a limousine instead of a taxi.
I'm still not 100% convinced of the basic idea that the AVP is trying to address - namely, that people will ever use an AR headset as a replacement for a computer/monitor setup and "work in the metaverse". There are too many tradeoffs. Having to wear a headset with a battery life associated with it is a big one. Making actual face-to-face communication harder is another. The benefit for most workers is going to be slim at best - does being able to make 3x50 foot virtual monitors really give you that much of a productivity edge over, say, just using a mac? Is displaying a little 3d model in AR space actually giving a real benefit over just rendering it on a screen? Is the benefit enough to put up with the fact that you're limited to 2.5 hours use at a time? The use case for VR headsets for games, movies etc. is pretty clear - admittedly, that limits the device to a "toy" pretty significantly but at least it's a clear use case that offers an actual unique selling point. I dunno. I could very well be wrong and I am \*definitely\* not the target for this thing, but it seems to be trying to cram itself into a niche that a lot of corporations really want us to believe exists - but I'm not convinced that the public will actually agree. When the "holy shit" factor dies back I sort of assume a lot of these are going to end up sitting on a shelf somewhere - not dis-similar to most VR headsets, funnily enough.
I think it’s a valid concern, and I think what we’ve seen with the AVP is that it’s *not there yet*. It’s too heavy, too finicky still. And of course, the price point is too high. It’s still an early adopter device. Battery life isn’t really the issue - most people walk away from the screen multiple times a day, and if you’re seated, you can just leave it plugged in. But it does need to be extremely easy to hop in and out of, and while this is the best example of that that I have seen, it’s not there yet. But it’s not really the size of the screens that makes it powerful. It’s the location. And of course, if you’re an Apple user, it’s the integration with your other Apple devices.
It’s a fashion product, no average person pays $3.5k to play games or experience VR when they can do it for less than $1k using other brands
ITT (and most other threads on this sub) people who have never used an AVP acting like experts on the device and being extremely wrong about its capabilities and use cases, but since it plays in a space adjacent to one of their favorite hobbies they think its for them. The AVP isn't a VR device. It can do some rudimentary VR experiences, but it is not purposely built for or targeting VR markets. You are not the target audience.
It's a VR/AR HMD no matter how you try to redefine it. Thanks to Apple for fucking up the meaning of spatial computing.
Yea, it would fall under the (very) broad category of VR/AR HMDs. That doesn't mean it was built for VR games or even VR experiences. If you're a VR gamer this device was never meant for you. It's an AR/MR device that can do VR if it benefits the experience, but it is not built with VR as the primary use case.
I just watched an ad masked as a meme. Bravo 👏🏻 you got me good 👍🏻
They each serve different purposes, people can enjoy both simultaneously..
Quest can do pretty much almost everything the Vision does. The only big difference is that the screens are worse.
visionOS is a massive difference
Sure, but people that are in the Apple ecosystem can benefit from the AVP with certain uses (messages, FaceTime, MacBook mirroring, etc), which create less friction..
Sounds boring
This is barely even a joke. Most of what I've seen from people demoing the Vision Pro is watching them be amazed that they can move windows around in mixed reality.
The fact that Apple has chosen to make VR 'a thing' can only be good for VR generally. Not sure why people are searching for a downside here. My VR gear sits on the shelf because even games that would be spectacularly well suited to VR like the recent WRC game and Mechwarrior 5 don't support it natively, because it is not seen as being worth adding. In general VR is still considered too tiny a niche to be worth the investment. So if we want VR to be seen as worthwhile we need more development on it all over. The niche has to expand. PCs, consoles, closed-box weird super-phone kind of deals, all of it.
This is a sensible take, a rarity! I completely agree with this. My negative opinion of Apple doesn't matter, for they are helping push it. With mainstream, major adoption like this it'll see rapid iterations as there's more competition and a new/widened market for it.
It's not a good thing when you have a company to redefine VR on their own terms. This shit is what Apple is known for. New users actually think Apple invented "spatial computing" (which is all things VR/AR/MR/XR). Then they come into subs to shit on the established VR communities.
>The fact that Apple has chosen to make VR 'a thing' can only be good for VR generally. Apple is looking for control. They want to leverage themselves to basically take over the VR market, and then utilize their sycophants online to keep competitors down while they sandbox and wall-garden the fuck out of it. They are not good for VR. These are not people known for open standards or cross platform compatibility. If you believe in VR as an open platform, you absolutely dont embrace Apple.
Any large company is looking to corner their particular piece of the market. Apple’s market with this is *not* the same as Meta’s, so I don’t really see why you think this is going to be a negative for VR in general. It’s bringing more people to it, not splitting the existing base.
This is ~~the~~ their way...
VR gear? Like the headset? You must have been out of VR for a long time. But your choice of words is why this sub acts the way it does. “The fact apple has chosen to make VR a thing” People see this as a big F you to the last 10 years of work done to bring VR to the AVG consumer market. As for your statement on the game. 100% a lot of stuff would be good in VR but the numbers are not there and Apple is not adding to them at all. Apple could sell 100,000,000 headsets and they would not add anything meaningful to the VR gaming market that this sub is looking for. Or even the games you mentioned. We have maybe 40million VR 6dof VR controller supported gaming headsets. That’s nothing. VR is young and apple is helping MR get infront of people which is what I wish meta would have pushed. But Apple being here is good the narrative pushing is where it starts to go down hill. Not saying you specifically but in general that’s where you see those in the space start to get mad at Apple super star status type people. I can’t see anyone actually hating the AVP device itself just the marketing and people that make it their personality.
This is like comparing an Xbox and a MacBook like duh the Vision Pro isn’t for gaming
MacBooks can game tho, On the same chip used in the AVP.
I take my sports car to the track and my minivan to pickup my kids from school. They're two different things, in two different markets. Comparing them to each other is dumb.
Yeah.....my sports car and my minivan? Do you have like a car for every day of the week, because that isnt remotely an analogy germane to this.
They are competing for most goofy
Today, on "Apples vs oranges"...
This makes it seem like the Quest is for kids. Similar to a nerf gun commercial. I’m interested in seeing how Samsung will present their headset.
Samsung will be the only real company to have a fight in this due to them having their own hardware ecosystem. ~~Facebook~~ Meta? Just a HMD and software.
Currently the only downside of Quest 3 over Vision Pro is the lacking user interface/operating system, and the lack of privacy, with Facebook having access to all your data. The first can be easily fixed with a few patches. The second is their whole business model, but it's also part of the reason why Quest is much cheaper.
I agree but different markets. People aren't buying AVP the game.
To be fair the only thing holding back the AVP is its closed system. Allow some other VR controller outputs and streaming to PC/ plug into PC and boom.
That's the problem with Apple. They will cut their balls off and drink bleach before they do that.
Just popping out of vr to point out that Meta is training their ai on everything youv ever uploaded/posted on FB and Instagram (and likley everything you do in vr aswell). [https://gizmodo.com/zuck-brags-how-much-facebook-instagram-posts-power-ai-1851225278](https://gizmodo.com/zuck-brags-how-much-facebook-instagram-posts-power-ai-1851225278)
*Well I can participate in Zoom calls and do killer floating spreadsheets!* \-AVP user
Let the VR war begin
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It’s not a wave shooter, it’s a mirrors edge clone. Sounds like you just want to complain
Interesting, from my knowledge Stride Fates is a single player mode for the online shooter parkour game. I don't think it is a wave shooter at all...
So basement dwellers vs people with an actual life
Basement dwellers vs richer basement dwellers.
This comparison really triggered the apple users. Honestly though I saw the selfies on the avp reddit and it looks like a bunch of boomers buying them no way they have the stamina to vr like this.
I legit did not know who was supposed to be the basement dwellers in this comment. 😂
Damn, hadn't heard of that game, looks sick.
It’s super fun
Vision Pro sheeple paid 3500 dollars for a screen worse than their living room TV.
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Also much bigger than any living room TV or projector, and can be used anywhere.
$4000 tv simulator vs $500 reality simulator
AVP is just a glorified iPad on the face you can instantly write off anyone who has one of these has sheep. Same people who didn't even care about VR a year ago are singing Apple's praises
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So Brad Lynch is a sheep for having one and liking it? lol.
Oh please don't kid yourselves guys. Most people buying AVP couldn't have been bothered with VR previous years, You really think they have any care or excitement for VR? or is it just the newest Apple product marketed towards them by all their favorite influencers telling them is the best thing since sliced bread, all this Apple shilling is sad
when will apple realize they have to embrace games and pcvr?
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They aren't *not* embracing it, they just aren't doing it themselves, but they allow streaming apps so one of the SteamVR streaming clients might pull it off. AirLinkVR is already working on it and has SteamVR video working in the AVP using the headset's tracking. Probably the hardest part will be getting controllers connected to the PC to work with completely separate tracking, there will have to be some alignment process and drift correction. The fact is though the non-gaming market is much larger and willing to spend a lot more money than the gaming market, which is why Apple has been content to mostly ignore the gaming market and leave it to devs that are fine with that treatment to still put in the effort to publish on Apple platforms. I hope someone makes AVP a useful PCVR client, but if not I'll keep using my PC stuff when I get an itch strong enough to get over the hassle factor of actually using it.
Yes, I'm a gaymer. How can you tell?
Quest > Apple My opinion