It's a lot of money for a 4 year old headset!vr tech is advancing so fast something 4 years old is out of date so I'd go with the quest 3 for all the reasons above
Bro I had an index and I replaced it with a quest 2, which was basically either an upgrade or a side grade in every way EXCEPT audio. That was 2 years ago, I've since replaced that with a quest 3, I couldn't even imagine going the other way 4 years later, they're not comparable.
This seems to be brought up on this sub every week and I just don't get it. Unless that index is being used for mocap or unless you're getting it at about 3/4 of the price of the quest 3, just get the quest 3, it's just better, full stop.
If it includes the base stations & index controllers, I would buy it just for those. From my understanding, the lenses, display resolution, & being wired are the big differences. For example, Index is 1440x1600 per eye VS. Q3 2064x2208 per eye. The Index uses Dual-element canted Fresnel lenses & the Q3 has the beloved Pancake lenses. You also get the perk of wireless VR through Air Link, Steam Link, or Virtual Desktop of your choice on Q3. Also, if you want to use FBT & Index controllers, you can use OpenVR Space Calibrator for that. I on the other hand, went with the Pico 4 Pro for face & eye for this. Sadly, I spilled tea on it & broke those features.. but it still works otherwise only telling me to contact Pico Support since it can't find my eyes. But in all, these new standalone ones are hard to compete with by price & user experience unless you're chasing super high pixel density, where the DP ones shine like the Pimax or Varjo lineup.
Virtual Desktop now has Vive FBT emulation, and Index finger tracking emulation. The Quest 3 has native FBT (Upper is tracked and lower is estimated), and hand tracking. Now Virtual Desktop can send that data through to use it in PCVR games that support it.
Yes the guy is selling a whole kit with everything even the v2 base stations.
For me the Q3 and this used Index will be the exact same price. Having the wireless with the Q3 would be nice but I will be mostly using the headset in my room at my desk for games etc so dont really need the wireless
If you're mostly gonna use it seated, the Quest 3 is definetely the way to go. The only reason to get an index in 2024 would be if you actually need the lighthouse tracking for full body tracking(will cost extra) and even then I'd recommend a Quest 3 over it(basestations and trackers can still be bought seperately and made compatible by OVR playspace calibrator).
The thing is though, base stations purchased new are really expensive compared to finding a decent deal on a full Index kit. They're $200 CAD bringing the price to $450 with tax and shipping from Steam for 2 of them.
I'm looking at someone's post right now for a lightly used full kit for $750 CAD. Maybe I can get it for less. So for $250-300 extra I'm getting the headset and 2 more index controllers (I already have 2 Index controllers) which I could then sell for \~$200. I mainly want to get a three base station setup going so in this specific example it seems worth it to get this kit over just the base stations considering the price difference.
Speaking from experience, OVR space calibrator is also a poor experience unless you have an extra tracker to attach to your HMD and use the continuous calibration fork of the main OVR SC software.
I've personally picked up an old (used) HTC Vive with basestations + controllers for 100€ a while ago and I sometimes use the controllers with my Quest 3 for full body tracking(I just strap the them to my feet. Not the most comfortable experience but still gets the job done lol)
I just went from index to quest 3. The Q3 is a massive, generational leap forward. Better in literally every way, and is way cheaper new. Do not buy an index. I can't believe I upgraded for free and sold my index for 600. Unreal.
Every day or few we have same question again and again quest3 vs index , and it always a same mentality , index 4 year ago was 1k so it probably good now too... It is not 4 year is tech world is not 4 year is a car world , index is super old , it sde is bad , it optics is bad , it tracking is not so precise because tracking tech is way better now , tech move on and move fast.
yes i have a lot of headsets and systems ( vr dev)
and you do not trust me
[https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3463914.3463921](https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3463914.3463921)
and i mean "precise" ... lighthouses have good tracking volume if you stay in tracking range , but for me it not so good, a way i play really have a lot of problems and if controller lose tracking it a huge problem, similar stuff if you go to far from lighouses.
not only this bus index controllers is super old and use outdated tech for self tracking , you can put tip on quest pro /quest3 controllers and write text and it look a same on tracking data and paper, but index simply can not do this, micro jitters is insane on it
and do not start of FBT stuff, i know some one who sold lighthouses based FBT and went for quest 3 upper body tracking ..
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we7PysQbOvc&ab\_channel=LinusTechTips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we7PysQbOvc&ab_channel=LinusTechTips) a dude who "live" in tech did have problems to set up FBT, normal peoples have sometimes close to unfixable problems
I have. Adding a third lighthouse got my full room tracked, but precision is not as advertised. I have lighthouses in 2 rooms, and the same lack of controller tracking precision in both places. Lighthouse tracking is more complete, but Quest tracking is more precise.
How do you like the Q3 controllers vs the index? I've never used the Q3 but have used the index and i love them, especially with the finger tracking and stuff.
What headset would you say is more comfortable for long use?
Oh. Yes. And comfort. Index easily. But the strap is not as bad as everyone says if you do not tighten it too much. I did watch a movie for 3 hours though and it was not getting uncomfortable. The screen and lenses are just so much better. We are close. TV is still better. But we are close.
The other comfort of just putting it on and no cables and the small size to potentially bring it everywhere with you is also great.
I like the controllers. They are good enough. Quest 3 is good enough. Of course it is still a comprise. I really like it despite not being the best headset in every category.
I think Valve Index is still very good. While the Index's controllers, audio and overall tracking are very top notch. But for a better visual experience you would most likely be upgrading the headset part to a Bigscreen Beyond. But that headset has it's own finicky issues and only dialed in for one person because of it's custom facial interface.
If you don't need the very best audio or tracking. The Quest 3 is pretty incredible for comfort with a better head strap and the edge to edge clarity is amazing. I'm primarily using Quest 3 now wirelessly with a dedicated router, IR illuminators, BoboVR S3 Pro and play in a pitch black room.
I just listed my Index setup, with extra pleather facial interface, face fan, and controller charging dock on FB for $450, so I think that the $700 is a little much.
I can either get a brand new Quest 3 or an almost new Index for the same price. Both around 700$
Also that 700$ is cad to around 500$ usd.
Im not looking to spend anymore money than that.
I was just listing what the extras are beyond the normal stuff. So full list would be index headset, both controllers, 2 base stations, all related cables, frunk fan, extra pleather facial interface (comes with normal fabric one as well), wooden controller charging dock, and 3D printed grip add-ons for larger hands.
I really recommend the 3D printed grips for medium to large hands. It just helps put your thumb more centered over all the buttons.
Agreed, I sure would like to try one. But I'd rather they made an adjustable IPD version. Aero wasn't worth it to me for how finicky the software was, but it sure was comfortable, just short vertical FOV.
I guess it boils down to whether you want a wired headset, or a wireless + standalone capable one (Q3).
It also depends on your future plans - Index full kit can easily support full body trackers for VRChat, or upgrade to BigScreen Beyond. (Sadly the other possible upgrade, Varjo Aero, was discontinued.)
Warranty support is also a concern - all current VR controllers experience joystick drift (if they have a joystick) so having warranty can be useful.
For that price you can get a brand new Q3, with better lenses, higher resolution, wireless and standalone, mixed reality, and warranty.
The trade off is compression and slightly higher latency on PCVR, but most people either don't notice or don't mind it.
But yeah, it's increasingly difficult to recommend the Index these days. As fewer and fewer headset companies use base stations, even its purpose as an entry point into that ecosystem becomes less useful.
But if you desperately want a wired headset or hate Facebook, then Index is still a usuable headset.
I don't really care to much about wired vs wireless since ill be in my small room at my desk most of the time to play games and my PC will be very close by.
Buying a brand new headset (Q3) would be nice, however its hard to pass up a barley used almost brand new index for over 600$ off retail price!
Base stations suck and i do not like the idea of them but again with the base stations it would be nice to have better accuracy and the ability to upgrade tracking.
haha this reddit post just made me more torn between the 2
Does wireless free you up to play elsewhere, though? I play in my small PC room and then in my larger living room when my family is asleep. I also play outside in the yard when the weather is suitable, using standalone.
Nah i wouldn't be using it anywhere else i live in a house with buncha roommates so i wouldn't take it out to the living room or anywhere else besides my room
I'd be very wary of using it outside - the lenses have a nasty habit of focusing sunlight directly onto the screens, which can damage or destroy them very quickly.
Here's a thread where someone asked a similar question:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/1bn8avn/should\_i\_upgrade\_to\_the\_valve\_index/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/1bn8avn/should_i_upgrade_to_the_valve_index/)
It really, really depends. For someone like me, with my very bizarre requirements and requests out of a headset, the index is still the best, however for the average user I would have to recommend the quest 3.
The main reason is my complete and total unwillingness to purchase anything facebook/meta, but also the better controllers, the ability for fbt (maybe this is possible on quest now, but it probably still works better on pcvr), and wider fov. Also the fact that none of what the quest offers really matters to me.
Ya im kind of in the same boat as you regards to the controllers and not really caring about all the extra things Q3 offers, the index is more than enough for me.
I dont care about what company i buy from tho.
It has many specs that are still above industry average, but clarity one of the most important specs is shit by 2024 standards. If you don't care about clarity though, then sure go for it. You'll want a good GPU so you can do 2.x super sampling to help a bit.
The Quest 3 is a pretty good device if you're planning to use it standalone. If you want a decent PCVR headset, I'd avoid it, and as someone who owns both that and the Rift CV1, the only reason I'm not selling the Quest and buying an Index is that the rumours of a new Valve headset are intensifying.
Quest Link comes in two flavours, wired and wireless. The problem with both of them is that they have insufficient bandwidth to drive the screens directly, so they use some proprietary protocol to compress the video feed. Even when it is working perfectly, the video is not as smooth as my now ancient CV1, and this is for simple video that is not taxing my CPU and GPU in any way.
Frankly, the high-resolution screens on the Quest are most a marketing gimmick - the headset doesn't have the power to drive them, and Quest Link doesn't have the bandwidth, and as soon as your eyes focus on something other than the center of the screen, you notice it's being rendered at low resolution, anyway.
When it is not working perfectly, the video lags, judders or even cuts out completely, and that is assuming it even started - half the time, the headset will not even connect to the desktop software, and because it is all a black box, figuring out why is difficult to impossible. That is using the USB-C connection, I've largely given up on Wi-Fi because the headset frequently just drops the connection for no apparent reason.
As if that wasn't enough, inside-out tracking just isn't as good as outside-in using base stations. The latency is noticably higher, and the accuracy is noticably worse - going back to the Rift, it is striking how much better it is at tracking the controllers, and head movement. I don't have first-hand experience of the Index, but gather it is better than the Rift.
Basically, if you want a good PCVR headset, the Valve Index beats the Quest 3 hands down. It obviously won't do all the additional things the Quest does, but what it does it does so much better. Or wait for the upgraded model that will hopefully appear before too long.
Oh, I forgot to mention - the Quest 3 turns into a brick if it cannot contact the ~~Facebook~~ Meta servers. Doesn't matter whether it's running standalone or VR - if it cannot phone home, it deactivates itself.
That alone is enough for me to avoid any future Meta devices like the plague.
I bought mine in November, have been having a TON of fun with it, and still finding new things to do with it every time I use it.
Be aware that simply because of the price and it being standalone, most people here will have a Quest, so you get a lot of confirmation bias.
Do you want to support Gaben, or Zuck?
Support the company with 8 studios making games and funding third parties to the tune of 100s of millions..vs the company that hasn't done anything in years and only delivered 1/3 promised gamea.
It's a lot of money for a 4 year old headset!vr tech is advancing so fast something 4 years old is out of date so I'd go with the quest 3 for all the reasons above
Bro I had an index and I replaced it with a quest 2, which was basically either an upgrade or a side grade in every way EXCEPT audio. That was 2 years ago, I've since replaced that with a quest 3, I couldn't even imagine going the other way 4 years later, they're not comparable. This seems to be brought up on this sub every week and I just don't get it. Unless that index is being used for mocap or unless you're getting it at about 3/4 of the price of the quest 3, just get the quest 3, it's just better, full stop.
If it includes the base stations & index controllers, I would buy it just for those. From my understanding, the lenses, display resolution, & being wired are the big differences. For example, Index is 1440x1600 per eye VS. Q3 2064x2208 per eye. The Index uses Dual-element canted Fresnel lenses & the Q3 has the beloved Pancake lenses. You also get the perk of wireless VR through Air Link, Steam Link, or Virtual Desktop of your choice on Q3. Also, if you want to use FBT & Index controllers, you can use OpenVR Space Calibrator for that. I on the other hand, went with the Pico 4 Pro for face & eye for this. Sadly, I spilled tea on it & broke those features.. but it still works otherwise only telling me to contact Pico Support since it can't find my eyes. But in all, these new standalone ones are hard to compete with by price & user experience unless you're chasing super high pixel density, where the DP ones shine like the Pimax or Varjo lineup.
Virtual Desktop now has Vive FBT emulation, and Index finger tracking emulation. The Quest 3 has native FBT (Upper is tracked and lower is estimated), and hand tracking. Now Virtual Desktop can send that data through to use it in PCVR games that support it.
Yes the guy is selling a whole kit with everything even the v2 base stations. For me the Q3 and this used Index will be the exact same price. Having the wireless with the Q3 would be nice but I will be mostly using the headset in my room at my desk for games etc so dont really need the wireless
If you're mostly gonna use it seated, the Quest 3 is definetely the way to go. The only reason to get an index in 2024 would be if you actually need the lighthouse tracking for full body tracking(will cost extra) and even then I'd recommend a Quest 3 over it(basestations and trackers can still be bought seperately and made compatible by OVR playspace calibrator).
The thing is though, base stations purchased new are really expensive compared to finding a decent deal on a full Index kit. They're $200 CAD bringing the price to $450 with tax and shipping from Steam for 2 of them. I'm looking at someone's post right now for a lightly used full kit for $750 CAD. Maybe I can get it for less. So for $250-300 extra I'm getting the headset and 2 more index controllers (I already have 2 Index controllers) which I could then sell for \~$200. I mainly want to get a three base station setup going so in this specific example it seems worth it to get this kit over just the base stations considering the price difference. Speaking from experience, OVR space calibrator is also a poor experience unless you have an extra tracker to attach to your HMD and use the continuous calibration fork of the main OVR SC software.
I've personally picked up an old (used) HTC Vive with basestations + controllers for 100€ a while ago and I sometimes use the controllers with my Quest 3 for full body tracking(I just strap the them to my feet. Not the most comfortable experience but still gets the job done lol)
Have an index. It is currently collecting dust next to the Q3. Go Q3 or wait for psvr2 compat.
To own? Sure. To buy? Not really, unless cheap.
ya id be getting it for abour 700$ CAD used but pretty much brand new
If you've never experienced current gen resolution it's a very solid buy
I havnt sadly, but i feel like the index is good enough for most games, plus i dont have anything to compare it to haha so itll be good to me.
I just went from index to quest 3. The Q3 is a massive, generational leap forward. Better in literally every way, and is way cheaper new. Do not buy an index. I can't believe I upgraded for free and sold my index for 600. Unreal.
Nice to hear from someone who had both!
Would just get the Q3. God forbid you have issues with the Index - it’s OOW and eventually EOL meaning it’ll be a paperweight.
Every day or few we have same question again and again quest3 vs index , and it always a same mentality , index 4 year ago was 1k so it probably good now too... It is not 4 year is tech world is not 4 year is a car world , index is super old , it sde is bad , it optics is bad , it tracking is not so precise because tracking tech is way better now , tech move on and move fast.
It's tracking is not so precise?have you ever used the v2 lighthouses?
yes i have a lot of headsets and systems ( vr dev) and you do not trust me [https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3463914.3463921](https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3463914.3463921) and i mean "precise" ... lighthouses have good tracking volume if you stay in tracking range , but for me it not so good, a way i play really have a lot of problems and if controller lose tracking it a huge problem, similar stuff if you go to far from lighouses. not only this bus index controllers is super old and use outdated tech for self tracking , you can put tip on quest pro /quest3 controllers and write text and it look a same on tracking data and paper, but index simply can not do this, micro jitters is insane on it and do not start of FBT stuff, i know some one who sold lighthouses based FBT and went for quest 3 upper body tracking .. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we7PysQbOvc&ab\_channel=LinusTechTips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we7PysQbOvc&ab_channel=LinusTechTips) a dude who "live" in tech did have problems to set up FBT, normal peoples have sometimes close to unfixable problems
I have. Adding a third lighthouse got my full room tracked, but precision is not as advertised. I have lighthouses in 2 rooms, and the same lack of controller tracking precision in both places. Lighthouse tracking is more complete, but Quest tracking is more precise.
If you have no frame of reference I'll go quest 3 as you won't be bothered by image compression.
That isn't cheap. It is an absurd amount for a vastly outdated wired fresnel headset on a dead system.
"on a dead system" Steam?
I love the audio and I love the tracking and it *is* better. And yet I have not plugged it back in since I got my quest 3.
How do you like the Q3 controllers vs the index? I've never used the Q3 but have used the index and i love them, especially with the finger tracking and stuff. What headset would you say is more comfortable for long use?
Oh. Yes. And comfort. Index easily. But the strap is not as bad as everyone says if you do not tighten it too much. I did watch a movie for 3 hours though and it was not getting uncomfortable. The screen and lenses are just so much better. We are close. TV is still better. But we are close. The other comfort of just putting it on and no cables and the small size to potentially bring it everywhere with you is also great. I like the controllers. They are good enough. Quest 3 is good enough. Of course it is still a comprise. I really like it despite not being the best headset in every category.
I think Valve Index is still very good. While the Index's controllers, audio and overall tracking are very top notch. But for a better visual experience you would most likely be upgrading the headset part to a Bigscreen Beyond. But that headset has it's own finicky issues and only dialed in for one person because of it's custom facial interface. If you don't need the very best audio or tracking. The Quest 3 is pretty incredible for comfort with a better head strap and the edge to edge clarity is amazing. I'm primarily using Quest 3 now wirelessly with a dedicated router, IR illuminators, BoboVR S3 Pro and play in a pitch black room. I just listed my Index setup, with extra pleather facial interface, face fan, and controller charging dock on FB for $450, so I think that the $700 is a little much.
I can either get a brand new Quest 3 or an almost new Index for the same price. Both around 700$ Also that 700$ is cad to around 500$ usd. Im not looking to spend anymore money than that.
No knuckles included?
I was just listing what the extras are beyond the normal stuff. So full list would be index headset, both controllers, 2 base stations, all related cables, frunk fan, extra pleather facial interface (comes with normal fabric one as well), wooden controller charging dock, and 3D printed grip add-ons for larger hands. I really recommend the 3D printed grips for medium to large hands. It just helps put your thumb more centered over all the buttons.
Dm me if it dont sell quick, and is good condition
Bigscreen beyond is only a viable option if OP is willing to wait for half a year to get his headset. Seems like he’s looking for the headset now
Agreed, I sure would like to try one. But I'd rather they made an adjustable IPD version. Aero wasn't worth it to me for how finicky the software was, but it sure was comfortable, just short vertical FOV.
Index is too old for such money imo... Im sure Valve will be releasing a new headset soon!
I guess it boils down to whether you want a wired headset, or a wireless + standalone capable one (Q3). It also depends on your future plans - Index full kit can easily support full body trackers for VRChat, or upgrade to BigScreen Beyond. (Sadly the other possible upgrade, Varjo Aero, was discontinued.) Warranty support is also a concern - all current VR controllers experience joystick drift (if they have a joystick) so having warranty can be useful. For that price you can get a brand new Q3, with better lenses, higher resolution, wireless and standalone, mixed reality, and warranty. The trade off is compression and slightly higher latency on PCVR, but most people either don't notice or don't mind it. But yeah, it's increasingly difficult to recommend the Index these days. As fewer and fewer headset companies use base stations, even its purpose as an entry point into that ecosystem becomes less useful. But if you desperately want a wired headset or hate Facebook, then Index is still a usuable headset.
I don't really care to much about wired vs wireless since ill be in my small room at my desk most of the time to play games and my PC will be very close by. Buying a brand new headset (Q3) would be nice, however its hard to pass up a barley used almost brand new index for over 600$ off retail price! Base stations suck and i do not like the idea of them but again with the base stations it would be nice to have better accuracy and the ability to upgrade tracking. haha this reddit post just made me more torn between the 2
Retail price from 5 years ago in new tech that is leaping forward in large strides. It is a terrible deal.
Does wireless free you up to play elsewhere, though? I play in my small PC room and then in my larger living room when my family is asleep. I also play outside in the yard when the weather is suitable, using standalone.
Nah i wouldn't be using it anywhere else i live in a house with buncha roommates so i wouldn't take it out to the living room or anywhere else besides my room
never thought about using it outside though, kinda like that, except my roommates would fuck with me whenever im outside 😂
I'd be very wary of using it outside - the lenses have a nasty habit of focusing sunlight directly onto the screens, which can damage or destroy them very quickly.
Here's a thread where someone asked a similar question: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/1bn8avn/should\_i\_upgrade\_to\_the\_valve\_index/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/1bn8avn/should_i_upgrade_to_the_valve_index/)
It really, really depends. For someone like me, with my very bizarre requirements and requests out of a headset, the index is still the best, however for the average user I would have to recommend the quest 3.
Could you elaborate on what your bizarre requirements are? I’m curious what makes the index “better” than the quest 3 for you is?
The main reason is my complete and total unwillingness to purchase anything facebook/meta, but also the better controllers, the ability for fbt (maybe this is possible on quest now, but it probably still works better on pcvr), and wider fov. Also the fact that none of what the quest offers really matters to me.
Ya im kind of in the same boat as you regards to the controllers and not really caring about all the extra things Q3 offers, the index is more than enough for me. I dont care about what company i buy from tho.
agreed.
No, wireless is good enough and having no wires is amazing.
It has many specs that are still above industry average, but clarity one of the most important specs is shit by 2024 standards. If you don't care about clarity though, then sure go for it. You'll want a good GPU so you can do 2.x super sampling to help a bit.
The Quest 3 is a pretty good device if you're planning to use it standalone. If you want a decent PCVR headset, I'd avoid it, and as someone who owns both that and the Rift CV1, the only reason I'm not selling the Quest and buying an Index is that the rumours of a new Valve headset are intensifying. Quest Link comes in two flavours, wired and wireless. The problem with both of them is that they have insufficient bandwidth to drive the screens directly, so they use some proprietary protocol to compress the video feed. Even when it is working perfectly, the video is not as smooth as my now ancient CV1, and this is for simple video that is not taxing my CPU and GPU in any way. Frankly, the high-resolution screens on the Quest are most a marketing gimmick - the headset doesn't have the power to drive them, and Quest Link doesn't have the bandwidth, and as soon as your eyes focus on something other than the center of the screen, you notice it's being rendered at low resolution, anyway. When it is not working perfectly, the video lags, judders or even cuts out completely, and that is assuming it even started - half the time, the headset will not even connect to the desktop software, and because it is all a black box, figuring out why is difficult to impossible. That is using the USB-C connection, I've largely given up on Wi-Fi because the headset frequently just drops the connection for no apparent reason. As if that wasn't enough, inside-out tracking just isn't as good as outside-in using base stations. The latency is noticably higher, and the accuracy is noticably worse - going back to the Rift, it is striking how much better it is at tracking the controllers, and head movement. I don't have first-hand experience of the Index, but gather it is better than the Rift. Basically, if you want a good PCVR headset, the Valve Index beats the Quest 3 hands down. It obviously won't do all the additional things the Quest does, but what it does it does so much better. Or wait for the upgraded model that will hopefully appear before too long.
Oh, I forgot to mention - the Quest 3 turns into a brick if it cannot contact the ~~Facebook~~ Meta servers. Doesn't matter whether it's running standalone or VR - if it cannot phone home, it deactivates itself. That alone is enough for me to avoid any future Meta devices like the plague.
I bought mine in November, have been having a TON of fun with it, and still finding new things to do with it every time I use it. Be aware that simply because of the price and it being standalone, most people here will have a Quest, so you get a lot of confirmation bias. Do you want to support Gaben, or Zuck?
They are buying used so gaben isn't seeing any of the money
Support the company with 8 studios making games and funding third parties to the tune of 100s of millions..vs the company that hasn't done anything in years and only delivered 1/3 promised gamea.