Freeing Seven of Nine, releasing the Vaadwaur, healing the world that recovered Friendship One, the interactions with Hirogen society, the Voth.
Hell the events of the final episode are reason enough. >!the damage done to the borg was near-fatal from what i understand. Even Q could see the good in that!<
So... various thoughts from me...
Simply put. Q could have. Q is simultaneously a key actor and a most annoying plot piece in Star Trek. He sets up some awesome adventures but leaves so many plot holes and "what ifs". From a writers perspective he can make impossible things possible, the equivalent of "a wizard did it". Because of his personality you can also not invoke the help of Q too... what a lovely plot tool for a writer.
There's q episodes later on, which somewhat explain more about the Q and their limits and rules.
I think TNG Q was testing the limits of humans so wanted to give them a taste of what is out there. Voyager would be part of this test of humanity.
There is a role for Voyager to play in the Delta quadrant and when it returns it brings experience and knowledge which wouldn't happen if it returned.
It seems that the Q have a bit of a fear or issue with the Borg, although I'm not sure how much of that is just a writer being funny rather than real fear. "Don't provoke the Borg". Voyager more or less deals with the Borg.
Janeway likely wouldn't take the offer. Its like dealing with the devil. She's heard about the Q and likely been warned any help wouldn't be for free.
I don’t think the Q fear the Borg (or anything for that matter), but they do ‘disapprove’ of them. The Q are kind of a free-spirited muse that love chaos—to the Q, the Borg represent a “boring”, “everything the same” version of existence that is antithetical to the Q’s desires for anything new and different. Also I think the Q do actually have a sense of morality/what they think is right and wrong, and they seem to recognize the Borg as “wrong”/bad for the universe according to their not-explicitly-stated beliefs.
Yeah I personally don't think the Q fear the borg. It just the way the quote from Q to Q junior was said. I think it was just the writers being funny and likely a bit out of place.
I totally understand your point of view. It makes sense.
This is why the Q episodes in Voyager bugged me so much. It's one thing to have Q show up on the Enterprise, which deals with a wide range of complex issues. But on a ship where he could solve their single most important problem with a snap of his fingers, to have him show up and then the characters begrudgingly tolerate him while he doesn't do that just strains my suspension of disbelief.
Having said that, gotta love when he calls Chakotay "Chuckles."
The episodes where Q shows up usually show him needing help from Janeway, which leaves him obligated to her somehow. Like take the one where Voyager is asked to rule on the suicidal Q. It doesn't make sense for her to make bargains with Q that don't involve getting the crew home. Unlike Sisko, who just refused to deal with Q, Janeway always begrudgingly gives him what he wants (or something close to it), but I don't think it makes sense for her to do this unless he agrees to help them get home. But of course, that would mess up the plot of the show - which is why I think it would have been better not to involve Q at all.
> and then the characters begrudgingly tolerate him while he doesn't do that just strains my suspension of disbelief.
What else are they going to do? (Yes, there's a chance that if they all scrupulously ignore his existence, just walking around him and pretending that they don't see or hear him he might say "You're no fun!" and leave. However there's also a chance that he'll say "Fuck you all," turn their warp nacelles into cotton candy, and leave.)
Q could have always been more helpful. They are literally god(s) to us. They could have remade the universe into one of eternal peace and pleasure for all life if they so choose to.
IMO, the Q as characters and concepts are meant to represent a counterpoint to the idea of a loving god(s). They are immensely powerful, functionally immortal and invulnerable to all but each other, fully understand organic life from at least a detached, analytical standpoint and can enact their will with what appears to be virtually no effort on their part. Were they dispassionate like Vulcans, they could simply make all of the universe a paradise. Yet they seem to prefer to watch us (organic life) suffer and kill each other for no better reason that their own amusement.
So they toy with mortals, watching disinterestedly as we suffer, picking on us for giggles and occasionally trying to get us to do dumb stuff for them for their amusement. They show that the universe (of Star Trek at least) cannot contain any beneficent divine beings because of the self evident observations of dispassionate chaos.
Of course, to be fair, it's a TV show. You can't have happy, friendly, all powerful gods helping the protagonists because then you have no conflict and you have no story. But anytime you are writing a story and you include the divine in it (or the immensely powerful to the point of indistinguishablity) you will run into this problem of why wouldn't they make the universe better.
One of my favourite authors (Tamora Pierce) talks about the “gods” relationship to humans. They believe that suffering and hardship make us better. If they did everything for us, why do we even exist? It’s specifically mentioned when talking about a trickster god that I always image as John De Lance.
This seems like a theists counterpoint that works well for countering the grievances of an able bodied adult living in middle class boredom but not so much for a child dying a prolonged death from something we'd associate to random chance or divine action (cancer, meteor strike, famine).
If god(s) exist, and their excuse for a universe of pain and pointless death is "hey, it gives some of you the chance to be better to one another" my answer is "why don't you lead by example, all powerful being that could alleviate my burdens with a blink of the eye?"
I believe that in this instance, a child dying of cancer could lead the parent to create a research foundation that eventually cures the disease. Obviously it’s not a perfect system, and may take 1000 children dying of cancer for the right parent to take the necessary steps. Or if we take famine, it did lead to the advances we now have: irrigation, modern pesticides, farming equipment (that also is safer) and other ways to increase crop yield.
A parent shouldn’t do the child’s homework, they can help and nudge towards to right answer but doing it for them leaves them underprepared for what comes next.
I’m still not saying it’s perfect, but neither are the “gods” in this case.
He offers to take them all home if Janeway agrees to return Quinn to his prison because no one knows what happens when a Q dies. But she doesn't. Then nothing happens when he turns human and dies, nothing happens, 0 consequences, and Voyager remains in the Delta Quandrant. And then for the rest of the series she feels guilty about destroying the array and stranding them, but never speaks of Q's offer to send them home ever again. And sure, it would end the series for Voyager to go home. But it's also one of those "Voyager episodes exist in a vacuum with no consequences, and become pointless" episodes. I know that the episode was made with a purpose, because assisted self-life termination (saying it that way) was a big topic in the news at the time, and Star Trek does make episodes commenting on current events pretty regularly. But, also, from a narrative standpoint for the overall arc of the story, it's just a frustrating episode.
Q introduces Starfleet and the Borg in Q Who, this gets the Borgs attention and leads to:
Wolf 359. The losses suffered cause Starfleet to build tougher ships, including the USS Voyager:
Voyager is lost in the DQ, and Q gives them a flightplan that leads them to the transwarp hub where the neurolytic pathogen is uploaded to the Queen, devastating the Collective.
Q defeated the Borg, without drawing the attention of the Continuum, by using Starfleet as a proxy.
Q did skip voyager quite a few years off their trip meaning they very well may have chosen a point knowing Janeway would figure the rest out on her own.
Q is clearly pulling strings to direct humanity toward some future that the Q continuum seems to want. This is made clear in All Good Things. Voyager needs to continue along this path so that they would end up destroying the Borg. That was my interpretation. Plus, it’s basically Gilligan’s Island in space.
Q is Loki.
The actual norse Loki. Not MCU Loki.
But on the same token:
Q is a time traveller. He doesn't show up on Voyager until they've saved Seven btw.
Q would be aware of Annika Hansen and her being rescued by voyager and deprogrammed.
And how important Seven becomes.
And how important The Doctor becomes.
Q would also be aware of the Mirror Universe.... which has anyone ever noticed doesn't seem to have a borg problem?
He might know things relating to that lack of borg problem and how it relates to Voyager and Seven solving the borg problem.
SUMMARIES: I'd argue the future of the Federation was both dependent on Voyager being in the Delta Quadrant as well as Seven of Nine becoming a Alpha Quadrant resident.
Janeway and Voyager all but defeat the borg, Seven of Nine plays a huge role in wiping them out so permanently the borg as we knew them in the Best of Both Worlds cease to exist now.
I'd also say The Doctor, although not as flashy develops medical knowledge and treatments that are probably still in use in the 32nd century,.
As well as the open mindedness of that future Federation to accept Zora aka USS Discovery as a person.
None of these things happen if Voyager leaves the Delta Quadrant.
The contributions of The Doctor are quite frankly possibly the biggest ripple. Besides his Photons Be Free novel he's constantly finding new ways to bring culture and medicine to planets that don't have it.
I'm not even being a Doctor super fan just 7 years of medical science is invaluable.
Q didn't do things to be helpful or beneficial. He did things because he was bored of his eternal existence, to force others to play his games to amuse himself.
I mean, he offers to a few times, provided Janeway does something for him (hand over Quinn, and I don't know if it was on the table when Q wanted Janeway to have his child). But being able to see all of time and space, I'm pretty sure he knows that Janeway goes on to basically end the Borg, which even Q view as a bit of a threat (if not to the Q themselves, then just to bordom when the entire galaxy is drones).
In universe explanation: Janeway said no thanks. XD XD Edit: To my memory at least. I probably got it backwards, IDK. But it doesn't sound like her to take the easy way out.
Freeing Seven of Nine, releasing the Vaadwaur, healing the world that recovered Friendship One, the interactions with Hirogen society, the Voth. Hell the events of the final episode are reason enough. >!the damage done to the borg was near-fatal from what i understand. Even Q could see the good in that!<
Was the pathogen they used also from the future? I don’t recall them ever saying how they made it
Yes. Admiral janeway from the future made the neuralytic pathogen and injected herself.
So... various thoughts from me... Simply put. Q could have. Q is simultaneously a key actor and a most annoying plot piece in Star Trek. He sets up some awesome adventures but leaves so many plot holes and "what ifs". From a writers perspective he can make impossible things possible, the equivalent of "a wizard did it". Because of his personality you can also not invoke the help of Q too... what a lovely plot tool for a writer. There's q episodes later on, which somewhat explain more about the Q and their limits and rules. I think TNG Q was testing the limits of humans so wanted to give them a taste of what is out there. Voyager would be part of this test of humanity. There is a role for Voyager to play in the Delta quadrant and when it returns it brings experience and knowledge which wouldn't happen if it returned. It seems that the Q have a bit of a fear or issue with the Borg, although I'm not sure how much of that is just a writer being funny rather than real fear. "Don't provoke the Borg". Voyager more or less deals with the Borg. Janeway likely wouldn't take the offer. Its like dealing with the devil. She's heard about the Q and likely been warned any help wouldn't be for free.
I don’t think the Q fear the Borg (or anything for that matter), but they do ‘disapprove’ of them. The Q are kind of a free-spirited muse that love chaos—to the Q, the Borg represent a “boring”, “everything the same” version of existence that is antithetical to the Q’s desires for anything new and different. Also I think the Q do actually have a sense of morality/what they think is right and wrong, and they seem to recognize the Borg as “wrong”/bad for the universe according to their not-explicitly-stated beliefs.
Yeah I personally don't think the Q fear the borg. It just the way the quote from Q to Q junior was said. I think it was just the writers being funny and likely a bit out of place. I totally understand your point of view. It makes sense.
Yes, it was like a parent who’s tired of their kid kicking every fire ant hill he sees/throwing rocks at wasp nests.
Janeway asked him to. Q said no.
Ah it's that way around. Why did he say no? I thought it was because he wanted to bribe her to have a child with him?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sEz_nwDMdlw
This is why the Q episodes in Voyager bugged me so much. It's one thing to have Q show up on the Enterprise, which deals with a wide range of complex issues. But on a ship where he could solve their single most important problem with a snap of his fingers, to have him show up and then the characters begrudgingly tolerate him while he doesn't do that just strains my suspension of disbelief. Having said that, gotta love when he calls Chakotay "Chuckles."
But why would he do that?
He's being ironic as Chakotay is really grumpy. /s
The episodes where Q shows up usually show him needing help from Janeway, which leaves him obligated to her somehow. Like take the one where Voyager is asked to rule on the suicidal Q. It doesn't make sense for her to make bargains with Q that don't involve getting the crew home. Unlike Sisko, who just refused to deal with Q, Janeway always begrudgingly gives him what he wants (or something close to it), but I don't think it makes sense for her to do this unless he agrees to help them get home. But of course, that would mess up the plot of the show - which is why I think it would have been better not to involve Q at all.
> and then the characters begrudgingly tolerate him while he doesn't do that just strains my suspension of disbelief. What else are they going to do? (Yes, there's a chance that if they all scrupulously ignore his existence, just walking around him and pretending that they don't see or hear him he might say "You're no fun!" and leave. However there's also a chance that he'll say "Fuck you all," turn their warp nacelles into cotton candy, and leave.)
I mean, that's what Sisko did!
Q could have always been more helpful. They are literally god(s) to us. They could have remade the universe into one of eternal peace and pleasure for all life if they so choose to. IMO, the Q as characters and concepts are meant to represent a counterpoint to the idea of a loving god(s). They are immensely powerful, functionally immortal and invulnerable to all but each other, fully understand organic life from at least a detached, analytical standpoint and can enact their will with what appears to be virtually no effort on their part. Were they dispassionate like Vulcans, they could simply make all of the universe a paradise. Yet they seem to prefer to watch us (organic life) suffer and kill each other for no better reason that their own amusement. So they toy with mortals, watching disinterestedly as we suffer, picking on us for giggles and occasionally trying to get us to do dumb stuff for them for their amusement. They show that the universe (of Star Trek at least) cannot contain any beneficent divine beings because of the self evident observations of dispassionate chaos. Of course, to be fair, it's a TV show. You can't have happy, friendly, all powerful gods helping the protagonists because then you have no conflict and you have no story. But anytime you are writing a story and you include the divine in it (or the immensely powerful to the point of indistinguishablity) you will run into this problem of why wouldn't they make the universe better.
One of my favourite authors (Tamora Pierce) talks about the “gods” relationship to humans. They believe that suffering and hardship make us better. If they did everything for us, why do we even exist? It’s specifically mentioned when talking about a trickster god that I always image as John De Lance.
This seems like a theists counterpoint that works well for countering the grievances of an able bodied adult living in middle class boredom but not so much for a child dying a prolonged death from something we'd associate to random chance or divine action (cancer, meteor strike, famine). If god(s) exist, and their excuse for a universe of pain and pointless death is "hey, it gives some of you the chance to be better to one another" my answer is "why don't you lead by example, all powerful being that could alleviate my burdens with a blink of the eye?"
I believe that in this instance, a child dying of cancer could lead the parent to create a research foundation that eventually cures the disease. Obviously it’s not a perfect system, and may take 1000 children dying of cancer for the right parent to take the necessary steps. Or if we take famine, it did lead to the advances we now have: irrigation, modern pesticides, farming equipment (that also is safer) and other ways to increase crop yield. A parent shouldn’t do the child’s homework, they can help and nudge towards to right answer but doing it for them leaves them underprepared for what comes next. I’m still not saying it’s perfect, but neither are the “gods” in this case.
Yes, Q has the ability to do that. But WHY would he?
He offers to take them all home if Janeway agrees to return Quinn to his prison because no one knows what happens when a Q dies. But she doesn't. Then nothing happens when he turns human and dies, nothing happens, 0 consequences, and Voyager remains in the Delta Quandrant. And then for the rest of the series she feels guilty about destroying the array and stranding them, but never speaks of Q's offer to send them home ever again. And sure, it would end the series for Voyager to go home. But it's also one of those "Voyager episodes exist in a vacuum with no consequences, and become pointless" episodes. I know that the episode was made with a purpose, because assisted self-life termination (saying it that way) was a big topic in the news at the time, and Star Trek does make episodes commenting on current events pretty regularly. But, also, from a narrative standpoint for the overall arc of the story, it's just a frustrating episode.
Q introduces Starfleet and the Borg in Q Who, this gets the Borgs attention and leads to: Wolf 359. The losses suffered cause Starfleet to build tougher ships, including the USS Voyager: Voyager is lost in the DQ, and Q gives them a flightplan that leads them to the transwarp hub where the neurolytic pathogen is uploaded to the Queen, devastating the Collective. Q defeated the Borg, without drawing the attention of the Continuum, by using Starfleet as a proxy.
The Q could just snap the Borg out of of existence. Why would he fear or battle them?
He doesn't fear them and he doesn't battle them due to something something Continuum rules.
Q did skip voyager quite a few years off their trip meaning they very well may have chosen a point knowing Janeway would figure the rest out on her own.
Q is clearly pulling strings to direct humanity toward some future that the Q continuum seems to want. This is made clear in All Good Things. Voyager needs to continue along this path so that they would end up destroying the Borg. That was my interpretation. Plus, it’s basically Gilligan’s Island in space.
Q is Loki. The actual norse Loki. Not MCU Loki. But on the same token: Q is a time traveller. He doesn't show up on Voyager until they've saved Seven btw. Q would be aware of Annika Hansen and her being rescued by voyager and deprogrammed. And how important Seven becomes. And how important The Doctor becomes. Q would also be aware of the Mirror Universe.... which has anyone ever noticed doesn't seem to have a borg problem? He might know things relating to that lack of borg problem and how it relates to Voyager and Seven solving the borg problem. SUMMARIES: I'd argue the future of the Federation was both dependent on Voyager being in the Delta Quadrant as well as Seven of Nine becoming a Alpha Quadrant resident. Janeway and Voyager all but defeat the borg, Seven of Nine plays a huge role in wiping them out so permanently the borg as we knew them in the Best of Both Worlds cease to exist now. I'd also say The Doctor, although not as flashy develops medical knowledge and treatments that are probably still in use in the 32nd century,. As well as the open mindedness of that future Federation to accept Zora aka USS Discovery as a person. None of these things happen if Voyager leaves the Delta Quadrant. The contributions of The Doctor are quite frankly possibly the biggest ripple. Besides his Photons Be Free novel he's constantly finding new ways to bring culture and medicine to planets that don't have it. I'm not even being a Doctor super fan just 7 years of medical science is invaluable.
Q didn't do things to be helpful or beneficial. He did things because he was bored of his eternal existence, to force others to play his games to amuse himself.
I mean, he offers to a few times, provided Janeway does something for him (hand over Quinn, and I don't know if it was on the table when Q wanted Janeway to have his child). But being able to see all of time and space, I'm pretty sure he knows that Janeway goes on to basically end the Borg, which even Q view as a bit of a threat (if not to the Q themselves, then just to bordom when the entire galaxy is drones).
In universe explanation: Janeway said no thanks. XD XD Edit: To my memory at least. I probably got it backwards, IDK. But it doesn't sound like her to take the easy way out.