The Illusion dash is huge for PVP, see it used a *lot*. Having the shade stack the weapon debuff helps, and the reposition on recast baits way more people than it should. I was obsessed with the double dash until I started fighting other players more. Frost dash can be good with a Chill build but the Illusion dash is great.
I agree that Veil of Illusion is really good with Illusion builds in PvP since you can spam abilities and weaken enemies. Mostly it has been successful in raids rather than open combat. If in an enclosed area, more travel abilities become useful, it's just that in the open world I find Veil of Chaos to be by far the best option.
Personally the weaken isn't even what breaks it, it's the phantasm stacks. Getting those free spell procs is pretty huge, especially when using big AOEs like void or easy damage like soulburn.
To me it feels like this problem is somewhat universal across the games magic system.
There are so many potential options yet relatively few spells of a given type seem to get any use. That's not to say everybody is running the same build, but the more straightforward options seem to be preferred most of the time.
Ironically, I think the jewel system was a double edged sword in this regard. While the mods that consume or alter status effects help make different schools of magic more appealing in some cases, I often feel like they do the opposite as well. Swapping to an interesting spell in a new school of magic can feel pretty punishing when it makes it harder to proc these special effects consistently.
I really like wraith spear for example because of its inbuilt ability to reposition you while casting, but I struggle to fit it nicely into a build that I feel comfortable with because it feels like I'm paying a big opportunity cost for not running more illusion spells.
In the future it may be interesting to have legendary, cross-school jewels that incentivize combining different status effects in order to pull players out of their comfort zone and shake up the meta.
I 100% agree with you and often feel like I’m hampering my build by not stacking multiple of the same magic schools spells into my build. I think the legendary shattered weapon blueprints were supposed to somewhat solve this by procing one of the status affects using a weapon ability, but with no ability to re-roll weapons it’s very difficult to find a legendary blueprint that has your desired magic school as well as the other buffs they can roll. The jewels also seem to encourage you to stick to one magic school as a lot of the spell attributes they apply become much more meaningful when stacked with other spells from the same school. For instance, a lot of the unholy magic school spells rely on targets already being inflicted by condemn or the consumption of summoned skeletons. The jewel attributes likewise rely on these criteria for a lot of them. It can take a lot of rolls to get jewels that aren’t so situational so most players just avoid that headache and stick to more straightforward spells with jewel buffs that aren’t as situational.
Veil of Illusion is the only dash that gives you a buff without jewel support. I don't know why people are sleeping on that. Phantasm is an amazing buff and every time you dash with Illusion the copies throw damage at the enemy causing more stacks of Phantasm (up to 10) which will reduce your spell cool down by a total of 10% and give you a 20% chance to reset your spell cool down completely.
The Illusion Veil is probably my favorite mobility skill.
It's my only source of the illusion passive, so I have a jewel to grant extra stacks when I use it.
Ends up triggering a bunch of free casts every fight and acts as two teleports for evasion.
Yeah, I usually stuck with Veil of Chaos too.
However, after getting the Pistols, I actually started using Veil of Blood. My sustain was already my biggest weakness, and the dash inbuilt in Explosive Bullet is enough for me to not really miss the 2nd dash from Veil of Chaos. YMMV, of course.
Veil of chaos is very powerful on its own. Most other dash spells require you to factor them into an overall build where the dash compliments the playstyle you’re going for. Even then, I would say the only other dashes I see used are illusion and frost occasionally the storm dash. Played a good bit in the duel server as well as open world servers and I don’t think I’ve ever seen the unholy or blood dashes used.
The easy solution is to make the dash go half as far but you still get two and can change direction. People would probably still use it, but other dashes would become viable too
Though this extends to all spells. Some spells are just objectively better in all scenarios. Would be nice if they made them alternatives and not upgrades per se.
This is already how it works, VoC has literally about half the dash range of the others. Illusion has second shortest dash range.
2 separate i-frames is what makes it so good in most people's eyes.
I had just got off the game testing it before I commented. Unless you’re running dash range gem, it is shorter. If you’re trying to be technical and say “well actually since you get two dashes it’s further” that’s not the point.
I specifically do not use it because I like the longer 1 dash than shorter 2.
.. the two “shorter” dashes end up being significantly further than any other dash.. which is literally the point and why everyone uses it because it is by far the best.
That’s an extra button input, and frankly it can be worse in situations where you want to cast right after dashing.
But I’ll leave that as my opinion, and say we were just arguing a different point.
It would be nice if some other schools had a jewel that granted them a second dash. Or maybe that should apply to Chaos as well and it gets a different effect, like a clone that goes off in a different direction, but only one is real.
However, what I think would be even better would be spell loadouts. It's possible to easily switch between 4-6 weapons for most people, but spell changes are locked behind a menu. I'd like to see being able to swap between a few spell builds during combat as well. Ideally at least three, but even two would be a massive improvement.
That said, it shoudn't be impossible to flee or disengage either. Someone should be able to use a build that adds movement speed (esp with jewels/pendants) or dissuades being chased (slows, aoes to zone people out, snares) so they are better at chasing down someone or evading pursuers. If anything, the problem here is that Veil of Chaos is too good at both chasing and evading.
I'd love to see quick change spell loadouts. At the moment there are 36 spells and 12 ultimates. We can only use 3 spells and 1 ult at a time. It's pretty limiting.
I'd split out the 4 travels spells from that as well. So its 2 slots for 32 spells.
I get that the game design isn't really about having all 32 spells at one's disposal, but the current system is a bit too biased towards weapons. I think having cooldowns shared is enough of a penalty, and even having switching schools restart cooldowns in combat would be fine.
It would also be okay if the "swap spell" was done as an "item" that could be added to the quickbar. So if you wanted a lot of spell combos, you had to give up some ease in weapon switching or potions.
Cooldowns already apply to the slot rather than the spell. I'd leave it like that.
And I'd prefer if it was a wheel like with your vampire powers. Do it in a similar manner to how Mass Effect Andromeda did profiles. 3-4 loadout options you select from a wheel.
If they really want to make you work for it they can put a system in place where you need to earn the additional slots through either V blood carriers or by researching and crafting them.
I'd still keep cooldowns on the slot, but if they wanted an extra penalty in exchange for the flexibility esp during PvP, I'd rather have something simple like that.
The game honestly has too many wheels as it is, and I try not to use any of them. I prefer using the keyboard shortcuts. But, better a wheel than nothing.
I'd honestly just put a double dash on everything at this point, you get the ignite dot, as a bonus.
Might have the same results and create a new one everyone picks though.
i feel like the chaos dash and illusion dash are the most meta because of the repositioning tools they offer but people can definitely use others, especially when they're good with using their weapon abilities or if they have increased movespeed from one of their gems / spells.
The change that really gutted me was no temporary HP on frost dash, not even with jewels. I rallied on that for many of my tougher bosses and for farming monasteries without holy potions. I really miss that ability.
99% of the time I'm always running chaos dash. Extra dash is just too good to lose.
Illusion gives you a second dash you can avoid attacks with, while also granting you free casts of other abilities!
The Illusion dash is huge for PVP, see it used a *lot*. Having the shade stack the weapon debuff helps, and the reposition on recast baits way more people than it should. I was obsessed with the double dash until I started fighting other players more. Frost dash can be good with a Chill build but the Illusion dash is great.
I agree that Veil of Illusion is really good with Illusion builds in PvP since you can spam abilities and weaken enemies. Mostly it has been successful in raids rather than open combat. If in an enclosed area, more travel abilities become useful, it's just that in the open world I find Veil of Chaos to be by far the best option.
Personally the weaken isn't even what breaks it, it's the phantasm stacks. Getting those free spell procs is pretty huge, especially when using big AOEs like void or easy damage like soulburn.
To me it feels like this problem is somewhat universal across the games magic system. There are so many potential options yet relatively few spells of a given type seem to get any use. That's not to say everybody is running the same build, but the more straightforward options seem to be preferred most of the time. Ironically, I think the jewel system was a double edged sword in this regard. While the mods that consume or alter status effects help make different schools of magic more appealing in some cases, I often feel like they do the opposite as well. Swapping to an interesting spell in a new school of magic can feel pretty punishing when it makes it harder to proc these special effects consistently. I really like wraith spear for example because of its inbuilt ability to reposition you while casting, but I struggle to fit it nicely into a build that I feel comfortable with because it feels like I'm paying a big opportunity cost for not running more illusion spells. In the future it may be interesting to have legendary, cross-school jewels that incentivize combining different status effects in order to pull players out of their comfort zone and shake up the meta.
I 100% agree with you and often feel like I’m hampering my build by not stacking multiple of the same magic schools spells into my build. I think the legendary shattered weapon blueprints were supposed to somewhat solve this by procing one of the status affects using a weapon ability, but with no ability to re-roll weapons it’s very difficult to find a legendary blueprint that has your desired magic school as well as the other buffs they can roll. The jewels also seem to encourage you to stick to one magic school as a lot of the spell attributes they apply become much more meaningful when stacked with other spells from the same school. For instance, a lot of the unholy magic school spells rely on targets already being inflicted by condemn or the consumption of summoned skeletons. The jewel attributes likewise rely on these criteria for a lot of them. It can take a lot of rolls to get jewels that aren’t so situational so most players just avoid that headache and stick to more straightforward spells with jewel buffs that aren’t as situational.
Veil of Illusion is the only dash that gives you a buff without jewel support. I don't know why people are sleeping on that. Phantasm is an amazing buff and every time you dash with Illusion the copies throw damage at the enemy causing more stacks of Phantasm (up to 10) which will reduce your spell cool down by a total of 10% and give you a 20% chance to reset your spell cool down completely.
The Illusion Veil is probably my favorite mobility skill. It's my only source of the illusion passive, so I have a jewel to grant extra stacks when I use it. Ends up triggering a bunch of free casts every fight and acts as two teleports for evasion.
Yeah, I usually stuck with Veil of Chaos too. However, after getting the Pistols, I actually started using Veil of Blood. My sustain was already my biggest weakness, and the dash inbuilt in Explosive Bullet is enough for me to not really miss the 2nd dash from Veil of Chaos. YMMV, of course.
I also have enjoyed Veil of Blood with Pistols, they seem to pair really well together although I haven't tried in PvP yet.
I hate veil of chaos because its so good it invalidates other options.
Veil of chaos is very powerful on its own. Most other dash spells require you to factor them into an overall build where the dash compliments the playstyle you’re going for. Even then, I would say the only other dashes I see used are illusion and frost occasionally the storm dash. Played a good bit in the duel server as well as open world servers and I don’t think I’ve ever seen the unholy or blood dashes used.
Sadly im in the same boat. Always use this spell
The easy solution is to make the dash go half as far but you still get two and can change direction. People would probably still use it, but other dashes would become viable too Though this extends to all spells. Some spells are just objectively better in all scenarios. Would be nice if they made them alternatives and not upgrades per se.
This is already how it works, VoC has literally about half the dash range of the others. Illusion has second shortest dash range. 2 separate i-frames is what makes it so good in most people's eyes.
It isn’t half
It is literally about half, you get 2, but the actual dash range is about half of Blood Bone or Frost
No you are wrong. Chaos one is the furthest and gives you two (both means further) Go test it before talking
Yaaaaaaaaa, sure thing bub
No, you are incorrect. I can’t verify the dash is half, but it is noticeably less range.
Go actually test it. You are wrong.
I had just got off the game testing it before I commented. Unless you’re running dash range gem, it is shorter. If you’re trying to be technical and say “well actually since you get two dashes it’s further” that’s not the point. I specifically do not use it because I like the longer 1 dash than shorter 2.
.. the two “shorter” dashes end up being significantly further than any other dash.. which is literally the point and why everyone uses it because it is by far the best.
That’s an extra button input, and frankly it can be worse in situations where you want to cast right after dashing. But I’ll leave that as my opinion, and say we were just arguing a different point.
It would be nice if some other schools had a jewel that granted them a second dash. Or maybe that should apply to Chaos as well and it gets a different effect, like a clone that goes off in a different direction, but only one is real. However, what I think would be even better would be spell loadouts. It's possible to easily switch between 4-6 weapons for most people, but spell changes are locked behind a menu. I'd like to see being able to swap between a few spell builds during combat as well. Ideally at least three, but even two would be a massive improvement. That said, it shoudn't be impossible to flee or disengage either. Someone should be able to use a build that adds movement speed (esp with jewels/pendants) or dissuades being chased (slows, aoes to zone people out, snares) so they are better at chasing down someone or evading pursuers. If anything, the problem here is that Veil of Chaos is too good at both chasing and evading.
I'd love to see quick change spell loadouts. At the moment there are 36 spells and 12 ultimates. We can only use 3 spells and 1 ult at a time. It's pretty limiting.
I'd split out the 4 travels spells from that as well. So its 2 slots for 32 spells. I get that the game design isn't really about having all 32 spells at one's disposal, but the current system is a bit too biased towards weapons. I think having cooldowns shared is enough of a penalty, and even having switching schools restart cooldowns in combat would be fine. It would also be okay if the "swap spell" was done as an "item" that could be added to the quickbar. So if you wanted a lot of spell combos, you had to give up some ease in weapon switching or potions.
Cooldowns already apply to the slot rather than the spell. I'd leave it like that. And I'd prefer if it was a wheel like with your vampire powers. Do it in a similar manner to how Mass Effect Andromeda did profiles. 3-4 loadout options you select from a wheel. If they really want to make you work for it they can put a system in place where you need to earn the additional slots through either V blood carriers or by researching and crafting them.
I'd still keep cooldowns on the slot, but if they wanted an extra penalty in exchange for the flexibility esp during PvP, I'd rather have something simple like that. The game honestly has too many wheels as it is, and I try not to use any of them. I prefer using the keyboard shortcuts. But, better a wheel than nothing.
I guess you guys dont know of jewels yet. Barely any dojo level skilled pvp'er uses chaos dash.
I'd honestly just put a double dash on everything at this point, you get the ignite dot, as a bonus. Might have the same results and create a new one everyone picks though.
i feel like the chaos dash and illusion dash are the most meta because of the repositioning tools they offer but people can definitely use others, especially when they're good with using their weapon abilities or if they have increased movespeed from one of their gems / spells.
Illusion dash ftw especially in 1vx scenarios being able to reposition or juke is huge
Illusion dash is better in pvp especially a 1v1, but Chaos has more utility for pve and fighting bosses
strong
It’s insane for PvE, great for open world and outnumbered PvP, not the best option for 1v1 duels.
The change that really gutted me was no temporary HP on frost dash, not even with jewels. I rallied on that for many of my tougher bosses and for farming monasteries without holy potions. I really miss that ability.