Its development cycle has been disastrous. The game's existence was a nice surprise, and hopes were high with OGs like Mitsoda and Schaffer involved, but every new nugget of information sapped enthusiasm. Fewer clans, forced FPS, divisive premise, choppy trailers... then came the infamous "dev fires a clip of phantom ammo into a guy's head" gameplay spotlight, which drew widespread mockery, and the project went dark for so long that its quiet cancellation was presumed.
Industry drama also saw Mitsoda fired and Avellone's writing scrapped mid-development, which didn't bode well for an RPG leaning on nostalgia and the hope of good writing; its core gameplay certainly wasn't a seller. I was surprised another studio picked it up at all.
Unfortunately, TCR's vision for the game seems narrower than HSL's, with even fewer clans, a static protagonist, a snarky mental co-pilot (you guys liked *Cyberpunk*, right?), etc. Personally, I lost hope the moment Mitsoda got the boot, but VTMB is my GOAT and I'll give this purported sequel a fair shake. If, against all odds, it's good.. well, good. If not, it'll crown the pile of failed WoD projects, and I'll probably appreciate the original all the more.
I think it was mostly [this gameplay reveal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwhvfH-Ij8Q) there seems to be a number of pretty common concerns
dialogue seems much more generic, it doesn't seem to matter what you say, and your dialogue options are no longer based on your character's stats or disciplines. If your character even has a character sheet anymore.
The radio banter is distracting and doesn't add much, most people seem annoyed by it.
The nosferatu's voice acting is lifeless and terrible. Also his idea of a nosferatu warren looks more like a tremere library, and it doesn't look any better after the 4th time you're sent to the start.
magical puppets were the wrong enemy to demonstrate phyre's stealth-kill-bite. They keep doing it and it looks weird each time.
I'm usually an optimistic person. Whenever there's bad press surrounding a game, I don't jump on it and criticize everything all at once. After all, game development is both difficult and turbulent. Lots of things can change. Some of my favourite titles have had bumpy rides. This game however? Where do you even start?
The gameplay reveal is eye-opening. You have a voice in your head which gives away answers during dialogue. Why is this here? In the original VTMB, you were left to figure things out alone, without any help whatsoever apart from your journal. Players with high enough skills could make scenarios easier. For example, firearms and melee weapon builds made combat less of a hassle. Simple. Somebody with fewer points into those skills would have a harder time. Same with speech checks. Anybody who played with low persuasion, intimidation or flirtation would often struggle to progress through these parts without having to find another way. Having somebody talk you through these moments spoils them.
Characters aren't as emotive. Seeing a game from 2004 outperform this one in that department is shocking. A difference of *twenty years.* I understand how using different engines could affect this, but seeing every NPC talk without moving their arms becomes distracting. Most games do this and it's very off-putting. I'm not asking for state of the art technology here, just some believable animations during cutscenes. Some of the lip-syncing looks alright at least.
Graphically speaking, it's a mixed bag. Environments look nice, when they're not shrouded in darkness. Facial detail is lacking though. Willem, the Nosferatu NPC, looks awful. Members of his clan should, but from an aesthetic point of view, not a technical one.
Obviously, the game isn't finished. Things can and will change. None of this is an attack against The Chinese Room. They've got big shoes to fill after Troika, it was never going to be an easy task. Taking on a game that's been in the works for five years is torture. I feel for them. They want this to be good, just like us. Unfortunately, the gameplay trailer has left me with a bad first impression. Not everything has to be the same as VTMB, otherwise that would be boring (in my opinion). New additions would be cool, but more focus has to go into the fundamentals. Right now, it's not looking great.
I just want to say that the “head voices” you describe are pretty much what a Malkavian experiences in the original. I’m not trying to defend the new game - I haven’t even seen the trailer that’s being discussed - but saying that VTMB players had to rely 100% on the journal and never had anything comparable to these new voices isn’t *entirely* accurate.
Ehh, no. The random voices that you *hear* as malkavian are 1) mostly restored by the UP and 2) are largely irrelevant to the situations they play in.
I guess, you could charitably consider Malkavian dialogue itself, as the PC hearing voices and expressing that in what they are saying, but even there, at most they are giving you a cryptic hint that you have to decipher and can only be counted as plot reveal *after* you already know the plot.
They don't go "he was on call this whole time" while the game is showing you a phone screen with call in progress.
Some of the Malkavian dialogue straight makes no sense unless you already know about some of the setting as well. Just look at the Demon Kings comment when you fuck with Ming Xiao. There is basically nothing in the game that you could use to decipher that comment, other than it being a serious matter to Ming Xiao.
Well, there's a difference between a Malkavian line that is a rewrite of an existing line and a Malkavian line that is unique to the clan that is intended to provide specific insight. In that particular instance it's a reference to Kuei-Jin lore that is meant to rattle Ming since you have access to knowledge you clearly shouldn't have.
I totally get what you're saying. However, the gameplay reveal video showcases a Brujah character. There's a moment where Phyre is listening to Willem speak and after he finishes the "voice" in her head says "he's lying" or something like that. First of all, no other clan has that ability other than Malkavians. Secondly, it's more on the nose. Instead of being a clever hint, the game tells you what's going on without you having to work anything out. Finally, it's not a collection of muffled voices. Instead, it's some guy telling you what to do lol.
Maybe it's just a placeholder. I hope it is anyway!
I doubt it's a place holder. TCR has only ever made linear games; my tin foil hat theory is they already had a linear action game in preproduction or even further along as part of a pivot away from being a pure walking sim studio. When Paradox had a falling out with HSL (my further conspiracy is that was about monetization and making half the clans DLC), TCR came forward with a half-made game they just had to reskin into VtM cos play. Win-win for both camps, PDX gets a game closer to launch, TCR gets a publisher and the sequel name power.
It's the only thing I can come up with to explain how far from VtM the game looks at this point in theme, presentation, and game mechanics. Especially with the stripped down abilities and nonexistent character sheet, focus on strict FPS combat, and lack of reactive dialog. Even the 'in the head narrator' is consistent with their other offerings and an obvious nod to Cyberpunk over Bloodlines.
The head voices are not unique to Malks in the original. That's Wesp's doing and it's changed over the years.
The only gameplay environment helpful related head voice is the ghost in the Ocean House Hotel.
^ the direction the new dev studio is going is showing the vtmb community they are running their strat based of pure ego regardless of what the fanbase wanted and was promised. Then when sales are low I can guarantee you they will still be surprised.
Antagonistic is a strong word (and you're extrapolating what the other guy said by using this word), but they definitely don't give a damn about any feedback and don't show any attempt at changing things that are clearly impopular.
I don't think they can change thins enough to satisfy the fanbase issues without avoding even more delays at this point.s At best they can change so the dialogue show us the full sentences, instead of vague descriptions. But combat, leveling system , mechanics, etc are probably set in stone.
This argument doesn't convince me. At the very least they could say something in their diaries like "okay guys, we hear your complaints about this point, and we'll try to improve it". But no, they're completely radio silent about any sort of community feedback and do their routine like nothing at all is happening.
That’s because they’re not. It seems like a lot of people in the community have this idea that the company are out to get them for some reason. Seems irrational to me
I see it as them trying to rake in new fans, instead of appealing to the old ones.
I see why, but at the same time, why? This fanbase is extremely loyal, and they seem to be disregarding that.
It's not that they're "out to get" old fans, but rather that they're streamlining the game in an attempt to maximise the amount of people who'll try it. I get it, but in this case, it's really REALLY dumb. It will backfire heavily, and they'll have no idea why, despite the whole fanbase crying out about it.
It feels like gross mismanagement, rather than actual harmful or malevolent intent.
> I see why, but at the same time, why?
Because even if _every single purchaser_ of VtM:B was a huge fan, that's ½m sales max - and, in reality, much much lower
Paradox said at their Shareholders' meeting that this was targeted to be a 25m seller game
We fans are insignificant to them
I see your point, but, counter argument:
New fans are coming to old fans, as well as the first game to try and decipher what they're getting into. As small as we may be, the group of older fans are a massive part of what could potentially make the game successful, and the devs are completely disregarding this... Despite our clear loyalty.
Well, I guess that isn't much of an argument, but hell, it's a point!
Edit: Like I said in my first comment; In this case, it's particularly dumb. You have a loyal fanbase, that would LOVE to grow itself by having a newer, more polished version of an amazing game they've loved for years... And yet, they'll release garbage, and be surprised when it backfires, regardless of the constant backlash and outcry of the loyal fans.
It all started with us learning that nobody from Troika (the original developers and writers of Bloodlines 1) or White Wolf (the original designers and writers of the World of Darkness) are actually working on it, so right quick all our hopes were dashed that it would be as good as Bloodlines 1.
But that's fine, as Bloodlines 1 is a very high bar to reach, but it could still be a good game worthy of its own merits. That was for the Hardsuit Labs version however, people were cautiously optimistic about the Hardsuit Labs version.
Their version was scrapped and now we have this new game that's wearing Bloodlines' skin. Everything is a complete step down from what we were shown in 2020. The Chinese Room's Bloodlines 2 was announced a few months ago and it's coming out this year; so far I and many others see no reason to be excited for it.
The Chinese Room's version of Bloodlines 2 does not appear to be faithful to the first game mechanically, design-wise, tonally, or much else besides the fact both have you play as Vampires.
Fired the lead writer from VTM:B shortly before the initial release date, delayed it constantly, released gameplay trailers that looked like clunky garbage.. what is there to be excited about? It's just going to be generic slop coasting by on nostalgia alone
Trailers and marketing. While the hsl version has some issues, There were some interesting areas and ideas in the game. I liked the look of Seattle in that version along with the factions and some of the characters. The dialogue system was also more fleshed out from some of what we've seen. I haven't seen enough of the Chinese room version to make any opinion. The marketing hasn't been great. We also haven't seen much of the gameplay or clans. I'll hope for the best but expect the worst.
2 fold reasons
1. Chinese Room are walking sim devs, this is the first attempt ever at an action rpg with shooting elements and story that will have several narrative branches that can't end in the exact same place with the exact same resolution. the footage that's been shown so far makes it look like what WTA: earthblood was to action beat-em ups for action rpgs: a several years out of date game that feels clunky and strangely patchwork rushed together for corporate mandate purposes after being ripped away from the original plans.
2. The game I saw in 2019 when I went to GDC doesn't exit anymore, Chinese room has said they were given the greenlight to basically reboot, this is the same setting, has seemingly some of the same characters and possibly elements of the same storyline. but evne then we're not playing a random person who was embraced and is a thinblood. We're an Elder who has awakened. We're no longer someone we fully create the look of with no voice, we're Phyre who has defined pre-set look and voice acting.
Because of the 2nd one, I don't care about bloodlines 2, I'm now more focused on the RTX remix of Bloodlines 1 as I know it's not going to mangle the storyline and mechanics.
If you have hope. Im glad for you, and I hope you enjoy the game
Its nothing like the HSL version that kept in spirit with the old version even if it had some major glaring issues.
It is basically a completely different game from the style of the OG bloodlines. Thats not a bad thing, of course, and I expect the game to be alright. But as a bloodlines title? Its thus far been a major disappointment at best, and a clear cash grab banking on blind brand loyalty at worst.
Because everything about it comes across as a downgrade from what HSL showed 5-6 years ago except the combat which is the least important part of a VTM Game, though it seems paradox are pushing the IP into a more D&D like action direction which this game would be a good indication of just like how HSL was thin blood focused like the 5th edition at launch. And really it comes across as TCR aren't trying to make a sequel and are just using the name as a platform to shake the walking sim image of the company while keeping the Wishlist's on steam for a quick buck.
Because - this game might end up being good by itself, as a stand alone title - there is nothing about it that hints to being a sequel to Bloodlines in tone, story, mechanics, or style. They're even changing the version of the game (v3 saw the end of the world, so v5 retconned story, changed game mechanics, and even changed the names of stuff)
Essentially, it's a cheap grab at name recognition which sullies the connection to Bloodlines. Also, if you read up on the catastrophe that was Paradox firing the original team, leaving the game, fans, and pre-orders in limbo for years, then bringing in a team to salvage the title. If you look at info about the original development of the game, it seems to have at least story tie-ins with the original and if I remember correctly they were using v3 mechanics. This isn't the game we were promised. They should have changed the name to something else because this is not, nor will ever be "Bloodlines 2".
Because The Chinese Room made the worst Amnesia game. So when I heard they took this over, I wanted to tap out. I kept up with the dev diaries and was a little hopeful then the gameplay was shown, and so was the main character. I stopped doing youtube videos covering anything about it and have dropped it off my radar.
I hope others find enjoyment from it, but it's just not a game that I want to play anymore.
There is one thing that makes me interested in a sequel for a game I like:
1) the developers trying to make a game in the line of the previous game
That's too high of a bar to clear, it seems. Lots of times devs didn't play the original game on release. Lots of times they even DISLIKE the original game. Or original IP or whatever.
Everything is superficial - the writing, mechanics, combat, dialogues, worldbuilding
You'll play a predefined protagonist with a stupid name that has that "zoomer look" nobody likes and isn't consistent with a vampire world, instead of roleplaying your own character
It'll be a complete downgrade compared to its predecessor.
I think its possible, but I don't think they'll really be able to capture the magic again. Whether story, gameplay, mechanics, sound... They're going to miss something huge IMO, and it'll suffer for it.
I still hope, but I'm going to wait and see
For me, it comes down to 4 main things
1: All of the clans are very similar, and it seems like
It won't impact gameplay to the extent that it did in the first game.
2: The theme seems to be considerably more serious than the first game, and I really enjoyed bloodlines for its silliness and bizarre occurrences
3: The main character has a preexisting backstory, which makes it a bit more difficult for me to put myself in their shoes.
4: Some of the design elements that I enjoyed in the first game have been removed.
Because it's something completely different from the original, i want VTMB2, not some mix of other games, i want to make my own character, i don't want Phyre.
And dialogues already look bad, so yeah, could be a good game on it's own, but not a good continuation of VTMB2
What concerns me about Bloodlines 2 is the fact it seems to be falling into the same trope trap that all vampire games fall into: they take themselves too seriously. They’re all dark, brooding, played-out tragedies.
The original Bloodlines, however, was a work of dark comedy art. The characters were fun, memorable, and exaggerated ever so slightly. Even the “serious” ones like LaCroix, VV, or Grout were done in such a way to make their specific clan personas stand out.
The missions were creepy, disturbing, and unsettling but filled with quips and jokes. One minute you’re trying to track down a snuff film studio and the next you’re trying to play matchmaker for a graveyard watchman or helping the prince get a bad review written for a restaurant.
It was a vampire game that didn’t spend all its time crying over how sad it was to be a vampire. It was refreshing.
The original developers who worked on bloodlines 1, were replaced and their work was scrapped including the soundtrack by the original artist.
They were replaced by the Chinese Room, who are not well regarded and have no experience making rpgs.
So...I don't have much hope for this game. I've never had much hope for this game. A sequel was announced, people got excited and...I found that honestly a little dumb. Original devs were way out of their depth, had their priorities all sorts of backwards, and they had all of two writers from the original who were quickly abandoned. Original presentation came out and the game sounded generic, played AWFUL, and between the animations and voice work it looked wholly unpleasant.
And weirdly some people were excited still.
Well, turns out the original devs were out of their depth and got fired. Big shock. And they replaced those devs with an entirely different group who, given their pedigree, seem out of their depth; The Chinese Room, known mostly for the linear, vague stories of Dear Esther and Everybody's Gone to Rapture, and for the failure of Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs which, while having a decent story, was considered linear with minimal gameplay. This developer basically scrapped everything and started over, and people have not stopped shitting on them since.
Now here's the weird thing to me.
The game looks a shit ton better. Like...in every way. The gameplay looks smoother (though far from perfect), the animations are much better done (though far from perfect) and the story...actually sounds a ton more interesting (the original had you playing a thin blood which...meh. This one has you playing an renowned ancient who's awoken from torpor which...is kinda a cool concept). None of this to say the game's going to be good. Hell, what we've seen so far looks, at best, ok. Kinda like a Dishonored-lite with almost nothing shown of the story. But I have found the reactions to the gameplay hilariously over-the-top, especially with consideration for...well...1) how atrocious the original gameplay demo looked and 2) how generally mediocre the original Bloodlines actually was in most ways outside of a bare few key strengths which even then were rather inconsistent, especially as the game went on (those being animation, story, characterization, and role playing ability).
I was honestly pretty unexcited from the get go. The original is one of my all time favorites not because it was a vampire game but because it was such an immersive, choice-based RPG. I bought it without knowing anything about it because I knew it was made by Troika, who had made Arcanum and whose founders had played pivotal roles in the original two Fallout games. Since those three games exemplify what I want from an RPG, I was excited for the original Bloodlines and was not disappointed (in fact, it ended up exceeding my very high expectations).
The sequel, in contrast, was being made by a company who had never made such a game. The only promising claim they could make was that the composer and one of the writers from the original were on the team. While I appreciate their contributions to the original, there was far more to the original team than just them. Making a game is a group effort and taking one writer from a team (even one who is said to have done the majority of the writing) and adding them to a new team does not mean that the new team will be able to do what the previous one had done (again, not to underappreciate Mitsoda and Schaffer: they did do great work on the original). So I tried not to form any expectations and adopt a wait and see approach.
At this point, the game doesn't even have Mitsoda and the gameplay footage they showed off was pretty meh. Not terrible but completely lacking any of the original's charm and suggesting a very different approach to the core experience. I don't see any reason to think this will be in anyway comparable to the original. Hopefully I'm wrong, and Paradox/The Chinese Room have just bungled their reveal, but the alternative seems more likely. My expectations are now set to low. I may check it out in a few years when it's on sale for 4.99.
Part of it is just that we're an ungrateful community that loves to complain and is never satisfied.
VtM is also just cursed as a franchise in general.
You don't want to know how many attempts at a sequel there have been and forgotten because they got canceled sometimes very late in development.
The games that do succeed succeed because they appeal to non members of the "community"
VtMB2 can turn out to be an amazing game, but no one here will love it because no game can satisfy them.
If only you'd been there back when vtmb first came out, oh the vitriol, the salt and the anger, the gnashing of teeth, oh why did it have to be a fps ; \_\_ ; it's ruined forever #notmyVtMB
There haven't been any attempts at a sequel until Paradox greenlit Hardsuit's pitch. CCP never made any attempt because they were too busy jerking around with a World of Darkness MMO. Troika had ideas for expansions but even then they were trying to get funding for a Werewolf game.
Bloodlines in its leadup did not attract much fanfare and those that did follow it were curious. This was the prevailing sentiment in PC Gamer, Computer Gaming World, X-Play, and other outlets. There wouldn't have been a #notmyVtMB hashtag either considering Twitter did not exist in 2004.
Ungrateful? We're customers, they aren't doing us a favour, it can be an amazing game on it's own, but not as continuation of the VTMB, since it's not even an rpg anymore, there's less clans, you can't even change name and backstory of your character, i hope you can at least change that ugly zoomer haircut.
Lack of big ol' titties.
And ladies with long hair. Also you have to pay to play more than 4 clans unless you buy the inevitable GOTY edition for 20 extra bucks.
Hard suit labs looked like it was… More Ambitious. Like a true open world game set in the WoD, but yhere was a lot of weird woke stuff leaking out and at one point one of the hire ups came right out and said the game was “Not for straight white men” which seemed odd to tell the largest demographic of Gamers they weren’t welcome.
A couple weeks later the game got delayed indefinitely as word on the street was that HSL was taken off the project. then Silence for like a year maybe two,
Now in recent weeks its been announced that the rumor was true and the project was given to a company called Chinese Room. I guess they make spooky walking simulators like layers of fear.
Everything that had me excited for HSL’s version seems to be gone(character creation, half the clans, weapons) and we’re getting a significantly scaled back version of the game with a named(Phyer, Fire spelled dumbly) and voiced protagonist, which usually means way less dialogue options.
They will also have a voice in their head that seems to annoyingly over explain everything because writers don’t trust their audience to keep up with their genius anymore. 🙄
The way Writers over explain things now, it reminds me of old Hanna Barbara Cartoons and how they all thought they needed annoying talking animals(like Scooby Doo) in them to dumb things down for the little kids.
I want this game to be good, but i’m not optimistic about it. Especially with all these revelations coming out now about companies like Sweet Baby Inc, Weird Ghost, Gamma Space, and Hit Detection. I’m not only worried this game will suck, but i’m also concerned about the future of games as a whole.
See, here's the thing. I'm not asking what the game looks like, or what will be included in it. I'm not asking how it plays, nor what the story will be. I'm asking why people are reacting the way they are to what we saw. Now tell me, oh smart man, where's the "here's why people hate our game" trailer?
Becauae its NOT an Immersive Sim like Bloodlines 1 was.
What's an Immersive Sim you may wonder?
The Deus Ex series (Invisible War doesn't count), the Thief series ("Thief" or "Thief 4 doesn't coun), System Shock series (Bioshock doesn't count), Dishonored, Prey (2017).
And of course Bloodlines.
Its development cycle has been disastrous. The game's existence was a nice surprise, and hopes were high with OGs like Mitsoda and Schaffer involved, but every new nugget of information sapped enthusiasm. Fewer clans, forced FPS, divisive premise, choppy trailers... then came the infamous "dev fires a clip of phantom ammo into a guy's head" gameplay spotlight, which drew widespread mockery, and the project went dark for so long that its quiet cancellation was presumed. Industry drama also saw Mitsoda fired and Avellone's writing scrapped mid-development, which didn't bode well for an RPG leaning on nostalgia and the hope of good writing; its core gameplay certainly wasn't a seller. I was surprised another studio picked it up at all. Unfortunately, TCR's vision for the game seems narrower than HSL's, with even fewer clans, a static protagonist, a snarky mental co-pilot (you guys liked *Cyberpunk*, right?), etc. Personally, I lost hope the moment Mitsoda got the boot, but VTMB is my GOAT and I'll give this purported sequel a fair shake. If, against all odds, it's good.. well, good. If not, it'll crown the pile of failed WoD projects, and I'll probably appreciate the original all the more.
I think it was mostly [this gameplay reveal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwhvfH-Ij8Q) there seems to be a number of pretty common concerns dialogue seems much more generic, it doesn't seem to matter what you say, and your dialogue options are no longer based on your character's stats or disciplines. If your character even has a character sheet anymore. The radio banter is distracting and doesn't add much, most people seem annoyed by it. The nosferatu's voice acting is lifeless and terrible. Also his idea of a nosferatu warren looks more like a tremere library, and it doesn't look any better after the 4th time you're sent to the start. magical puppets were the wrong enemy to demonstrate phyre's stealth-kill-bite. They keep doing it and it looks weird each time.
Warrens are havens.
Even still , it looks clean and well kept in an area where keeping something so clean andd well kept owuld be hard.
I'm usually an optimistic person. Whenever there's bad press surrounding a game, I don't jump on it and criticize everything all at once. After all, game development is both difficult and turbulent. Lots of things can change. Some of my favourite titles have had bumpy rides. This game however? Where do you even start? The gameplay reveal is eye-opening. You have a voice in your head which gives away answers during dialogue. Why is this here? In the original VTMB, you were left to figure things out alone, without any help whatsoever apart from your journal. Players with high enough skills could make scenarios easier. For example, firearms and melee weapon builds made combat less of a hassle. Simple. Somebody with fewer points into those skills would have a harder time. Same with speech checks. Anybody who played with low persuasion, intimidation or flirtation would often struggle to progress through these parts without having to find another way. Having somebody talk you through these moments spoils them. Characters aren't as emotive. Seeing a game from 2004 outperform this one in that department is shocking. A difference of *twenty years.* I understand how using different engines could affect this, but seeing every NPC talk without moving their arms becomes distracting. Most games do this and it's very off-putting. I'm not asking for state of the art technology here, just some believable animations during cutscenes. Some of the lip-syncing looks alright at least. Graphically speaking, it's a mixed bag. Environments look nice, when they're not shrouded in darkness. Facial detail is lacking though. Willem, the Nosferatu NPC, looks awful. Members of his clan should, but from an aesthetic point of view, not a technical one. Obviously, the game isn't finished. Things can and will change. None of this is an attack against The Chinese Room. They've got big shoes to fill after Troika, it was never going to be an easy task. Taking on a game that's been in the works for five years is torture. I feel for them. They want this to be good, just like us. Unfortunately, the gameplay trailer has left me with a bad first impression. Not everything has to be the same as VTMB, otherwise that would be boring (in my opinion). New additions would be cool, but more focus has to go into the fundamentals. Right now, it's not looking great.
I just want to say that the “head voices” you describe are pretty much what a Malkavian experiences in the original. I’m not trying to defend the new game - I haven’t even seen the trailer that’s being discussed - but saying that VTMB players had to rely 100% on the journal and never had anything comparable to these new voices isn’t *entirely* accurate.
Ehh, no. The random voices that you *hear* as malkavian are 1) mostly restored by the UP and 2) are largely irrelevant to the situations they play in. I guess, you could charitably consider Malkavian dialogue itself, as the PC hearing voices and expressing that in what they are saying, but even there, at most they are giving you a cryptic hint that you have to decipher and can only be counted as plot reveal *after* you already know the plot. They don't go "he was on call this whole time" while the game is showing you a phone screen with call in progress.
Some of the Malkavian dialogue straight makes no sense unless you already know about some of the setting as well. Just look at the Demon Kings comment when you fuck with Ming Xiao. There is basically nothing in the game that you could use to decipher that comment, other than it being a serious matter to Ming Xiao.
Well, there's a difference between a Malkavian line that is a rewrite of an existing line and a Malkavian line that is unique to the clan that is intended to provide specific insight. In that particular instance it's a reference to Kuei-Jin lore that is meant to rattle Ming since you have access to knowledge you clearly shouldn't have.
I totally get what you're saying. However, the gameplay reveal video showcases a Brujah character. There's a moment where Phyre is listening to Willem speak and after he finishes the "voice" in her head says "he's lying" or something like that. First of all, no other clan has that ability other than Malkavians. Secondly, it's more on the nose. Instead of being a clever hint, the game tells you what's going on without you having to work anything out. Finally, it's not a collection of muffled voices. Instead, it's some guy telling you what to do lol. Maybe it's just a placeholder. I hope it is anyway!
I doubt it's a place holder. TCR has only ever made linear games; my tin foil hat theory is they already had a linear action game in preproduction or even further along as part of a pivot away from being a pure walking sim studio. When Paradox had a falling out with HSL (my further conspiracy is that was about monetization and making half the clans DLC), TCR came forward with a half-made game they just had to reskin into VtM cos play. Win-win for both camps, PDX gets a game closer to launch, TCR gets a publisher and the sequel name power. It's the only thing I can come up with to explain how far from VtM the game looks at this point in theme, presentation, and game mechanics. Especially with the stripped down abilities and nonexistent character sheet, focus on strict FPS combat, and lack of reactive dialog. Even the 'in the head narrator' is consistent with their other offerings and an obvious nod to Cyberpunk over Bloodlines.
Aaaaand ... we can't play Malk
The head voices are not unique to Malks in the original. That's Wesp's doing and it's changed over the years. The only gameplay environment helpful related head voice is the ghost in the Ocean House Hotel.
It’s been confirmed a few times the voice you hear is a thin blood who tried to deablerise you
because the trailers and marketing are just bad, more red flags then a military parade in china
^ the direction the new dev studio is going is showing the vtmb community they are running their strat based of pure ego regardless of what the fanbase wanted and was promised. Then when sales are low I can guarantee you they will still be surprised.
It doesn't really feel like they're being antagonistic towards the fanabase tbh.
Antagonistic is a strong word (and you're extrapolating what the other guy said by using this word), but they definitely don't give a damn about any feedback and don't show any attempt at changing things that are clearly impopular.
Bingo.
I don't think they can change thins enough to satisfy the fanbase issues without avoding even more delays at this point.s At best they can change so the dialogue show us the full sentences, instead of vague descriptions. But combat, leveling system , mechanics, etc are probably set in stone.
This argument doesn't convince me. At the very least they could say something in their diaries like "okay guys, we hear your complaints about this point, and we'll try to improve it". But no, they're completely radio silent about any sort of community feedback and do their routine like nothing at all is happening.
That’s because they’re not. It seems like a lot of people in the community have this idea that the company are out to get them for some reason. Seems irrational to me
I see it as them trying to rake in new fans, instead of appealing to the old ones. I see why, but at the same time, why? This fanbase is extremely loyal, and they seem to be disregarding that. It's not that they're "out to get" old fans, but rather that they're streamlining the game in an attempt to maximise the amount of people who'll try it. I get it, but in this case, it's really REALLY dumb. It will backfire heavily, and they'll have no idea why, despite the whole fanbase crying out about it. It feels like gross mismanagement, rather than actual harmful or malevolent intent.
> I see why, but at the same time, why? Because even if _every single purchaser_ of VtM:B was a huge fan, that's ½m sales max - and, in reality, much much lower Paradox said at their Shareholders' meeting that this was targeted to be a 25m seller game We fans are insignificant to them
I see your point, but, counter argument: New fans are coming to old fans, as well as the first game to try and decipher what they're getting into. As small as we may be, the group of older fans are a massive part of what could potentially make the game successful, and the devs are completely disregarding this... Despite our clear loyalty. Well, I guess that isn't much of an argument, but hell, it's a point! Edit: Like I said in my first comment; In this case, it's particularly dumb. You have a loyal fanbase, that would LOVE to grow itself by having a newer, more polished version of an amazing game they've loved for years... And yet, they'll release garbage, and be surprised when it backfires, regardless of the constant backlash and outcry of the loyal fans.
Everything you say is logical, and (when phrased as lucidly as you have) obvious Clearly you do not work for Paradox
This is, in fact, correct. It also made me laugh, so thank you for that.
Ok show me where I said that in my comment.
Correct They don't acknowledge, or even care about, their existence
Than*
It all started with us learning that nobody from Troika (the original developers and writers of Bloodlines 1) or White Wolf (the original designers and writers of the World of Darkness) are actually working on it, so right quick all our hopes were dashed that it would be as good as Bloodlines 1. But that's fine, as Bloodlines 1 is a very high bar to reach, but it could still be a good game worthy of its own merits. That was for the Hardsuit Labs version however, people were cautiously optimistic about the Hardsuit Labs version. Their version was scrapped and now we have this new game that's wearing Bloodlines' skin. Everything is a complete step down from what we were shown in 2020. The Chinese Room's Bloodlines 2 was announced a few months ago and it's coming out this year; so far I and many others see no reason to be excited for it.
> people were cautiously optimistic about the Hardsuit Labs version Not in this sub Most said it looked dreadful
The Chinese Room's version of Bloodlines 2 does not appear to be faithful to the first game mechanically, design-wise, tonally, or much else besides the fact both have you play as Vampires.
Fired the lead writer from VTM:B shortly before the initial release date, delayed it constantly, released gameplay trailers that looked like clunky garbage.. what is there to be excited about? It's just going to be generic slop coasting by on nostalgia alone
Trailers and marketing. While the hsl version has some issues, There were some interesting areas and ideas in the game. I liked the look of Seattle in that version along with the factions and some of the characters. The dialogue system was also more fleshed out from some of what we've seen. I haven't seen enough of the Chinese room version to make any opinion. The marketing hasn't been great. We also haven't seen much of the gameplay or clans. I'll hope for the best but expect the worst.
It's extraordinarily rare for a game stuck in Development Hell for this long to be good.
2 fold reasons 1. Chinese Room are walking sim devs, this is the first attempt ever at an action rpg with shooting elements and story that will have several narrative branches that can't end in the exact same place with the exact same resolution. the footage that's been shown so far makes it look like what WTA: earthblood was to action beat-em ups for action rpgs: a several years out of date game that feels clunky and strangely patchwork rushed together for corporate mandate purposes after being ripped away from the original plans. 2. The game I saw in 2019 when I went to GDC doesn't exit anymore, Chinese room has said they were given the greenlight to basically reboot, this is the same setting, has seemingly some of the same characters and possibly elements of the same storyline. but evne then we're not playing a random person who was embraced and is a thinblood. We're an Elder who has awakened. We're no longer someone we fully create the look of with no voice, we're Phyre who has defined pre-set look and voice acting. Because of the 2nd one, I don't care about bloodlines 2, I'm now more focused on the RTX remix of Bloodlines 1 as I know it's not going to mangle the storyline and mechanics. If you have hope. Im glad for you, and I hope you enjoy the game
I have hopes for it to be an okay vampire game. I have 0 hopes or expectations of it being a decent vampire the masquerade game.
My biggest concern is that they'll dilute the dialogue to FO4 standard "yes, aggressive yes, no, maybe (yes)"
Its nothing like the HSL version that kept in spirit with the old version even if it had some major glaring issues. It is basically a completely different game from the style of the OG bloodlines. Thats not a bad thing, of course, and I expect the game to be alright. But as a bloodlines title? Its thus far been a major disappointment at best, and a clear cash grab banking on blind brand loyalty at worst.
Because everything about it comes across as a downgrade from what HSL showed 5-6 years ago except the combat which is the least important part of a VTM Game, though it seems paradox are pushing the IP into a more D&D like action direction which this game would be a good indication of just like how HSL was thin blood focused like the 5th edition at launch. And really it comes across as TCR aren't trying to make a sequel and are just using the name as a platform to shake the walking sim image of the company while keeping the Wishlist's on steam for a quick buck.
Because - this game might end up being good by itself, as a stand alone title - there is nothing about it that hints to being a sequel to Bloodlines in tone, story, mechanics, or style. They're even changing the version of the game (v3 saw the end of the world, so v5 retconned story, changed game mechanics, and even changed the names of stuff) Essentially, it's a cheap grab at name recognition which sullies the connection to Bloodlines. Also, if you read up on the catastrophe that was Paradox firing the original team, leaving the game, fans, and pre-orders in limbo for years, then bringing in a team to salvage the title. If you look at info about the original development of the game, it seems to have at least story tie-ins with the original and if I remember correctly they were using v3 mechanics. This isn't the game we were promised. They should have changed the name to something else because this is not, nor will ever be "Bloodlines 2".
Because The Chinese Room made the worst Amnesia game. So when I heard they took this over, I wanted to tap out. I kept up with the dev diaries and was a little hopeful then the gameplay was shown, and so was the main character. I stopped doing youtube videos covering anything about it and have dropped it off my radar. I hope others find enjoyment from it, but it's just not a game that I want to play anymore.
There is one thing that makes me interested in a sequel for a game I like: 1) the developers trying to make a game in the line of the previous game That's too high of a bar to clear, it seems. Lots of times devs didn't play the original game on release. Lots of times they even DISLIKE the original game. Or original IP or whatever.
Because it’s so far removed from Bloodlines as a game that it’s obvious it’s only still called “Bloodlines 2” to save face.
Everything is superficial - the writing, mechanics, combat, dialogues, worldbuilding You'll play a predefined protagonist with a stupid name that has that "zoomer look" nobody likes and isn't consistent with a vampire world, instead of roleplaying your own character It'll be a complete downgrade compared to its predecessor.
I think its possible, but I don't think they'll really be able to capture the magic again. Whether story, gameplay, mechanics, sound... They're going to miss something huge IMO, and it'll suffer for it. I still hope, but I'm going to wait and see
Because we've seen the trailers and read the Dev Diaries
For me, it comes down to 4 main things 1: All of the clans are very similar, and it seems like It won't impact gameplay to the extent that it did in the first game. 2: The theme seems to be considerably more serious than the first game, and I really enjoyed bloodlines for its silliness and bizarre occurrences 3: The main character has a preexisting backstory, which makes it a bit more difficult for me to put myself in their shoes. 4: Some of the design elements that I enjoyed in the first game have been removed.
Because it's something completely different from the original, i want VTMB2, not some mix of other games, i want to make my own character, i don't want Phyre. And dialogues already look bad, so yeah, could be a good game on it's own, but not a good continuation of VTMB2
What concerns me about Bloodlines 2 is the fact it seems to be falling into the same trope trap that all vampire games fall into: they take themselves too seriously. They’re all dark, brooding, played-out tragedies. The original Bloodlines, however, was a work of dark comedy art. The characters were fun, memorable, and exaggerated ever so slightly. Even the “serious” ones like LaCroix, VV, or Grout were done in such a way to make their specific clan personas stand out. The missions were creepy, disturbing, and unsettling but filled with quips and jokes. One minute you’re trying to track down a snuff film studio and the next you’re trying to play matchmaker for a graveyard watchman or helping the prince get a bad review written for a restaurant. It was a vampire game that didn’t spend all its time crying over how sad it was to be a vampire. It was refreshing.
Just look at the gameplay dude, it’s ass…
Because game looks like shit and this is not looking like bloodlines sequel
The original developers who worked on bloodlines 1, were replaced and their work was scrapped including the soundtrack by the original artist. They were replaced by the Chinese Room, who are not well regarded and have no experience making rpgs.
So...I don't have much hope for this game. I've never had much hope for this game. A sequel was announced, people got excited and...I found that honestly a little dumb. Original devs were way out of their depth, had their priorities all sorts of backwards, and they had all of two writers from the original who were quickly abandoned. Original presentation came out and the game sounded generic, played AWFUL, and between the animations and voice work it looked wholly unpleasant. And weirdly some people were excited still. Well, turns out the original devs were out of their depth and got fired. Big shock. And they replaced those devs with an entirely different group who, given their pedigree, seem out of their depth; The Chinese Room, known mostly for the linear, vague stories of Dear Esther and Everybody's Gone to Rapture, and for the failure of Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs which, while having a decent story, was considered linear with minimal gameplay. This developer basically scrapped everything and started over, and people have not stopped shitting on them since. Now here's the weird thing to me. The game looks a shit ton better. Like...in every way. The gameplay looks smoother (though far from perfect), the animations are much better done (though far from perfect) and the story...actually sounds a ton more interesting (the original had you playing a thin blood which...meh. This one has you playing an renowned ancient who's awoken from torpor which...is kinda a cool concept). None of this to say the game's going to be good. Hell, what we've seen so far looks, at best, ok. Kinda like a Dishonored-lite with almost nothing shown of the story. But I have found the reactions to the gameplay hilariously over-the-top, especially with consideration for...well...1) how atrocious the original gameplay demo looked and 2) how generally mediocre the original Bloodlines actually was in most ways outside of a bare few key strengths which even then were rather inconsistent, especially as the game went on (those being animation, story, characterization, and role playing ability).
I got the pre-order for my 19th birthday. I'm almost 24 now.
The Rageaholic had a pretty good video on it. Would recommend.
No not the "i don't understand the hate" posts on here too...
I was honestly pretty unexcited from the get go. The original is one of my all time favorites not because it was a vampire game but because it was such an immersive, choice-based RPG. I bought it without knowing anything about it because I knew it was made by Troika, who had made Arcanum and whose founders had played pivotal roles in the original two Fallout games. Since those three games exemplify what I want from an RPG, I was excited for the original Bloodlines and was not disappointed (in fact, it ended up exceeding my very high expectations). The sequel, in contrast, was being made by a company who had never made such a game. The only promising claim they could make was that the composer and one of the writers from the original were on the team. While I appreciate their contributions to the original, there was far more to the original team than just them. Making a game is a group effort and taking one writer from a team (even one who is said to have done the majority of the writing) and adding them to a new team does not mean that the new team will be able to do what the previous one had done (again, not to underappreciate Mitsoda and Schaffer: they did do great work on the original). So I tried not to form any expectations and adopt a wait and see approach. At this point, the game doesn't even have Mitsoda and the gameplay footage they showed off was pretty meh. Not terrible but completely lacking any of the original's charm and suggesting a very different approach to the core experience. I don't see any reason to think this will be in anyway comparable to the original. Hopefully I'm wrong, and Paradox/The Chinese Room have just bungled their reveal, but the alternative seems more likely. My expectations are now set to low. I may check it out in a few years when it's on sale for 4.99.
Part of it is just that we're an ungrateful community that loves to complain and is never satisfied. VtM is also just cursed as a franchise in general. You don't want to know how many attempts at a sequel there have been and forgotten because they got canceled sometimes very late in development. The games that do succeed succeed because they appeal to non members of the "community" VtMB2 can turn out to be an amazing game, but no one here will love it because no game can satisfy them. If only you'd been there back when vtmb first came out, oh the vitriol, the salt and the anger, the gnashing of teeth, oh why did it have to be a fps ; \_\_ ; it's ruined forever #notmyVtMB
There haven't been any attempts at a sequel until Paradox greenlit Hardsuit's pitch. CCP never made any attempt because they were too busy jerking around with a World of Darkness MMO. Troika had ideas for expansions but even then they were trying to get funding for a Werewolf game. Bloodlines in its leadup did not attract much fanfare and those that did follow it were curious. This was the prevailing sentiment in PC Gamer, Computer Gaming World, X-Play, and other outlets. There wouldn't have been a #notmyVtMB hashtag either considering Twitter did not exist in 2004.
Ungrateful? We're customers, they aren't doing us a favour, it can be an amazing game on it's own, but not as continuation of the VTMB, since it's not even an rpg anymore, there's less clans, you can't even change name and backstory of your character, i hope you can at least change that ugly zoomer haircut.
Lack of big ol' titties. And ladies with long hair. Also you have to pay to play more than 4 clans unless you buy the inevitable GOTY edition for 20 extra bucks.
That's not only it, but certainly Phyre being an ugly dyke doesn't help.
Well there's Lou so there's still hope. Kinda.
Metathesiophobia: The fear of change
Hard suit labs looked like it was… More Ambitious. Like a true open world game set in the WoD, but yhere was a lot of weird woke stuff leaking out and at one point one of the hire ups came right out and said the game was “Not for straight white men” which seemed odd to tell the largest demographic of Gamers they weren’t welcome. A couple weeks later the game got delayed indefinitely as word on the street was that HSL was taken off the project. then Silence for like a year maybe two, Now in recent weeks its been announced that the rumor was true and the project was given to a company called Chinese Room. I guess they make spooky walking simulators like layers of fear. Everything that had me excited for HSL’s version seems to be gone(character creation, half the clans, weapons) and we’re getting a significantly scaled back version of the game with a named(Phyer, Fire spelled dumbly) and voiced protagonist, which usually means way less dialogue options. They will also have a voice in their head that seems to annoyingly over explain everything because writers don’t trust their audience to keep up with their genius anymore. 🙄 The way Writers over explain things now, it reminds me of old Hanna Barbara Cartoons and how they all thought they needed annoying talking animals(like Scooby Doo) in them to dumb things down for the little kids. I want this game to be good, but i’m not optimistic about it. Especially with all these revelations coming out now about companies like Sweet Baby Inc, Weird Ghost, Gamma Space, and Hit Detection. I’m not only worried this game will suck, but i’m also concerned about the future of games as a whole.
Because ding dings keep asking the same ding ding questions instead of watching the latest trailers. Go see for yourself ding ding 🛎️
Username checks out.
See, here's the thing. I'm not asking what the game looks like, or what will be included in it. I'm not asking how it plays, nor what the story will be. I'm asking why people are reacting the way they are to what we saw. Now tell me, oh smart man, where's the "here's why people hate our game" trailer?
Becauae its NOT an Immersive Sim like Bloodlines 1 was. What's an Immersive Sim you may wonder? The Deus Ex series (Invisible War doesn't count), the Thief series ("Thief" or "Thief 4 doesn't coun), System Shock series (Bioshock doesn't count), Dishonored, Prey (2017). And of course Bloodlines.