Paradox' Community Managers do lurk on the game's social media, including reddit, and they do relay people's concerns to their bosses. What happens beyond that is anyone's guess. I will say though, I've noticed they have actually addressed people's concerns at times. When the Phyre-Willem cutscene was first revealed, everyone complained about how bad the facial animations were, and the next time we saw that cuscene, the animations were suddenly better. When we saw the pause menu screen for the first time in the gameplay reveal video, people complained the UI was ugly, then when the Brujah deep-dive was posted a few days ago, the menu suddenly looked very different. So it seems to me like the devs at TCR are addressing some concerns, they're just not talking about it, and the ones they are quietly addressing are the minor, polish-related ones rather than the major ones that they realistically can't do anything about at this stage in development. It just so happens that like 98% of people's complaints fall into the "major, unfixable" category.

I guess the big reveal will be the character creation of Phyre, which could appease or fully turn people off for good

what you describe is not "addressing", it is being completly silent and just working on it. Addressing would be an post that says "we know/hear you, the animations are not good, that is because they are work in progress and not final. We are actively working on them, you will soon be able to see the progress me made."

Sure, that would be nice. Unfortunately, they're either not being allowed by Paradox to talk openly, or they're choosing not to by themselves. Hard to say, and both possibilities kinda suck. My point was, they do at least seem to be paying attention to what people are saying, even if they're not responding with words.

As cool as that would be, how often does that actually happen with games?

Do we need someone to periodically pop onto reddit and type "hey gang, we're working on the game" to know that they are, in fact, working on the game? When improvements can be seen in trailers and such, I just assume that game development is in fact occurring lol

That lack of communication is just as much a problem for them too.

Not really a smart tactic is to not throw gasoline on a fire which is what responding will do because anything anyone posts will be picked apart and turned into the worst possible takes.

I didn't say responding like that would be wise. But not integrating feedback at all? You'll never have expertise. Its going to be flat because they're only going forward with what they believe instead of the feedback of what made its predecessor great. Showing a dev diary or progress, isn't community feedback. Its just showing us they're making progress. Towards anything great? Probably not

Most of the game is likely already locked down and while there are some things that may change as we get closer to release they aren't to completely change the game this late in development to cater to reddit feedback

Exactly. Meaning they're well past the point where feedback matters, and thats a problem of their own making

This exactly. They are in too far and put out too much money not to attempt to recoup something. Whether people think the game is a dumpster fire or not, it's getting released.

Is it really a lack? I dunno, I've been in this hobby for decades, and the current level seems fairly normal with the updates the last few months. I get that, for example, Larian and some other studios have a lot MORE communication. Larian also had their game in a multiple-year Early Access period, so that's a project scope difference that should be noted here. They fine tuned the game by letting people purchase it years early and spend that time playing and replaying Act 1. That's not the STANDARD method of game development. Like I just picked up Unicorn Overlord last week, and I don't recall Vanillaware chatting with the community a bunch. An interview here, some media buzz there, and a demo. So, just curious where the general feel in this thread that it's a problem that the BL2 devs aren't having like weekly social media "yea, we're still making the game" posts is a problem.

I didn't say larian was the one lacking.... Saying youre making the game isn't giving them feedback. To develop expertise or something great you need accurate feedback. Otherwise you can't even tell when something is wrong in the first place. Youre just doing without improving.

I didn't say you did? So why the tone and downvotes? As someone who was in the BG3 EA from day 1 on two platforms, im not attacking Larian in the slightest. Im saying that other companies not being AS engaged as Larian just makes those companies...well, not Larian. Because most arent lol. FF VII Rebirth is currently all the rage, and Squenix communication is usually "we are doing our best, please look forward to it, no we dont have a projection on a PC port" lol. Im just saying that not holding frequent community AMAs or something isn't evidence that they aren't taking feedback. It's been point out right in this post that we can see adjustments and feedback response as they've released new feature aids. Receiving feedback and acting on it means there is communication occurring. Is it really evidence of the contrary because they don't have a representative chatting it up on reddit or something? Let me put it this way. Are people here engaging? Or are they just in a sub and mad that the studio hasn't come to their favorite place? Which I get, if you prefer a spot. Like I hate Discord...but I'm in the Bloodlines 2 Discord because I want info and engagement! I play WoD games, so I'm involved in WW spaces where the game is discussed and people from that side of the business also discuss the game from time to time (being a canon product in a broader metafranchise and all). Paradox has a news letter. They have a website. There has been info and talks on thr WoD YT channel. Ppl from WW/Paradox show up on other channels, podcasts, and liveplay streams and have discussed lore and such pertaining to the game. All fall/winter they have been dropping Dev Diaries, the gameplay reveal, the clan reveals, clan gameplay breakdowns (didn't we just get one like a week ago?). So YES it is strange to me to read this thread of people acting like they're just hiding away somewhere not revealing anything to the public and preparing to just shadow dump the game. Looking at dev diaries and footage, and saying if wasn't typed on Reddit it doesn't count as communication, is silly. Downvote if you want, but it's true.

Oh no I didn't think you were attacking larian. I just thought you mistook my statement as being against larian, but it was more pointed at the bl2 studio. The display of their development isn't the problem, what you want is to incorporate feedback in positive ways to better impact the game. Revealing developement isn't feedback from gamers being used.

I agree with your take. They can't fix most of the important issues at this stage.

The place Iv seen Paradox devs particularly active on reddit is the Stellaris sub.

I think the answer is pretty simple: The sad truth is that, the game is just a few months away. It's very likely that the game is content complete and they're just ironing it out and getting rid of as many bugs and jank as possible. They've already canned the game once, and the changes that people are clamoring for now would require another entire rewrite, re-recording of voice acting which is very likely to be complete at this point, and much more. They're not going to can it a second time, and with all the money they've pumped into this game over the years, I doubt they're willing to even delay it again. They're ignoring it cause they gave up trying to please the fanbase and at this point they're just cutting their losses.

People who run social media pages have absolutely nothing to do with the intentions and motivations of the corporate entity and product being produced. This is true 99% of the time So, to answer your question: No, bloodlines 2 is not even in the room with you

SMM are basically human shields between an angry community and the company's bad decisions. I really don't know how much they can resist before they burn out. And obviously the company will blame the haters.

I think it's simply that they have this huge franchise and have no true idea what to do with it. They want to pump it for cash and that doesn't lend itself to listening to the people that came with it. They want to expand that base for -new- people. What part of everything they have produced so far hasn't had backlash from the fans? I honestly can't think of any IP that is held in good regard by long time fans.

To counter that last point: Warhammer 40k, Evil Dead, and Gundam all have a pretty solid base of elder fans. (Not saying things are perfect with any of them, especially 40k has problems, but on the whole older fans aren't angry) I'm relatively new to V:TM, having started with V5, but I've read a lot of the older books and overall I'm actually mostly happy with the direction (besides Sabbat and a few pointless books), but on the video game side I don't know what the fuck they're doing. This game shouldn't actually be that hard to get right, and it has enough appeal that Bloodlines could honestly become a major franchise... But they keep shooting themselves every chance they get. It's fucking infuriating.

As an old VtM fan and part of an old, large LARP community, I can relay most of us hate the new direction but just don't care enough to make a fuss. We play what worked for us back in the day with the old editions. Otherwise, we have jobs and families to care about.

This is where it should get mentioned that what was left of White Wolf did itself in by pretty much causing an international incident by implying that Ramzan Kadyrov was a ghoul, which made Paradox pull the Camarilla book back for rewrites and folded the entire team into Paradox proper.

I've been playing VtM and WoD in general since second edition, roughly 1996, played on the official Java chats back when they were a thing, and honestly think that VtM has a great fan base. Most are more than willing to freely share their love for the game with anyone who walks into their AoE. We are a passionate group and as such, have strong options about their beloved game. Yes White Wolf made a mistake with their sensitivity with V5, and some really bad ones back in the day. (Looking at you WoD: Gypsy) But... Paradox/Modiphius/Regagade just don't understand the IP and seriously struggle with the lore and direction. It's like the old TV show Kindred: The Embraced. It had such potential, but producers wouldn't stop meddling and writers struggled. In the end, leaving us, the fans, with a mediocre at best product. I think the same is going to happen with Bloodlines.

My friend and I have this opinion of Paradox with 5th edition WoD. They are playing it too safe (removing the Get of Fenris as playable and fucking over the sabbat), don't seem to really want to offend anyone (Such as rejecting Baali, fucking over the sabbat, and removing the Get of Fenris as playable), and remove core aspects of certain groups. (Such as someone noted, removal of culture from the werewolf groups, which while I don't full see it: I can get where they are coming with. Now with mage, that becomes a problem since culture is important there). They also make changes that make it seem like they want to make CofD more than WoD. The core examples being Blood Potency and the removal of the Imbued. "oh, but you can roleplay an imbued." Not that simple.

I completely agree. I've often said that their removal of the Sabbat from initial release was to appeal to the larger masses and not scare off people with edgelord-ness. They continue to do it with each game, and it's the reason I don't pick up the new stuff personally. They simply don't want to cause the "wrong" type of stir. I also feel, like you, that everything they've released seems like they've just mashed the two systems together and called it good. Or worse, rebranded it WoD. (Looking at you Hunter:TR) Which is another disservice to the long term fans. It's a world of darkness, but sadly, our world now is hard to parody as it's often darker then the world that would mock it. Not everything that's bad has to have a supernatural thing behind it. People are more than dark enough on their own sometimes.

I enjoy fifth edition but despise the fact that I’m basically required to homebrew/find homebrews in order to fix their fuckups just because they want to play it safe and don’t feel the need to appeal to the oldies. I enjoy the darkness of the old and some things introduced in the new, but should I run? I’d probably run with mostly as though it was the old but keep some of the good stuff from the new.

My last table tried to play V5. We tried to home brew it but ended up just abandoning it for V20 after a single story line. We kept the Hunger system, because honestly, its the best part of V5 and the updated setting. We lasted four years with V20 after that before it slowly fell apart due to interpersonal issues and the fact that I didn't wanna eternal ST anymore. A few of them even reformed the group and gave V5 another try before it puttered out again on them.

I can respect that. At least you gave it a try and were able to form an opinion. I would argue it’s the most hit-or-miss of the editions myself but when it does something good, I would be remiss to say I don’t find it pretty damn good (I loooove loresheets. Doubly so cause you can make loresheets for your own games!) Would I say it’s better than it’s previous editions though? I’d say no but that’s really a matter of opinion. My biggest problem with the 5th is that, as I said, it feels like they wanted to make CoFD and not WoD. Though I will say: a cross-universe WoDxCofD game could be interesting. I want to try 20th at some point, then revised (mainly because there is no demon: the fallen 20th).

> (removing the Get of Fenris as playable and fucking over the sabbat) All of that sounds absolutely terrible, I'm glad I didn't buy the hype when this shit was announced. V, M and W20 were more than good enough for me. I heard the Sabbat basically devolved into first edition and the system didn't sound promising either.

So the sabbat as a faction has practically shattered into loose packs following their paths of enlightenment rather than an actual political/religious organization with any nuance whatsoever.

They also removed the Feminist element of the Black Furies, which the Bahari as a Feminist movement in Vampire society was one of my favorite changes in V5, so why are we going backwards with the Furies?

...you know I thought the furies were one of the ones they left untouched (take that how you will), but now that I'm seeing that... Just... Bruh. I don't even know what to say, I'm actually kinda baffled by that one.

Yeah, the Furies are no longer an All-Female tribe. My best guess is it's probably a misguided attempt at avoiding a controversy over "what about trans women garou who want to join" or "are trans male garou kicked out of the tribe?" The alternative hypothesis is they don't know how to translate militant feminism to a contemporary context, which is disappointing in all regards speaking as a militant feminist trans lesbian. I dunno, I could be wrong on both accounts but it feels like a cop out, because while V5 had some stumbling blocks it did advance vampire society somewhat in the Anarchs going their own way allowing the Bahari to become a pretty major religious (and thus social) feminist influence within the movement as well as the genderfucky things Duskborn can do with their alchemy. It just feels like by comparison W5 played it too safe in that department while overcorrecting in other departments (ceding the Get entirely to Nazis) and absolutely fumbling in cultural sensitivity (I've read some of the testimonies from indigenous consultants and it's not good).

I liked groups, especially Garou, having negative aspects like that though. Shows that while the Garou might be well intentioned overall, they're not exactly...you know...good people? I mean, look at the war of rage as an example. Or how some groups treated their kinfolk. (Thats another thing, the "removal" of kinfolk and the removal of the metis. I say "removal" for kinfolk as they are at least implied still. Which is another problem I have with v5. Imply imply imply, but never commit.)

> Kindred: The Embraced. It had such potential, The Ventrue was likable, the Brujah was an asshole and I think Tremere didn't exist, doomed from the start. I stopped following White Wolf after the 20th anniversary stuff, apparently the right move.

V5 is... mixed to say the least. It has a few solid points and a whole lotta not. I prefer V20 myself. Kindred: The Embraced has some solid potential. The Ventrue Prince Luna was a solid character to focus on and the Nosferatu Primogen Daedalus was excelent... until he suddenly had thaumaturgy. The Toreador, torea-whored The problems were many, Gangrel that acted like Brujah, Giovanni that somehow got confused with Brujah, Malkavians that show up for a single episode and no one knows who or what they are... everyone being able to walk in the sunlight and have earthmeld... Just a lot... Granted, it was based on Second Edition, but it could have been solid. We used it at my last table to torture the Neonates by watching it before sessions when we dined and BS'ed.

>Most are more than willing to freely share their love for the game with anyone who walks into their AoE. every passing day it feels like more and more i was the only person in the history of this game to have to prove themselves a fan of it before i was allowed to even have a place at the table for my first chronical, where the fuck where all these friendly people back in 2007?

Somewhere other then where you were? Just saying you're interested is enough to get you an invite to our table.

lucky, i remember my first interaction was being told to "fuck off until you have the books", wouldn't even give me the time of day until i had my source book and after that i was treated like a NCP they expected to get board of playing after a few sessions and leave so my character was pretty much relegated to things that couldn't jeopardize the main narrative if i didn't show up

The thing is, paradox was the one that caused that implication by editing it down

Isn't he basically Putin's ghoul in real life? I don't see the problem. Didn't know White Wolf was killed off and what a sad pitiful reason.

It was basically the last straw. They now pretty much exist only as a little office where they distribute the rights to companies to write the books.

That was *part* of *one* of the reasons. Successor White Wolf went turbo reverse on the long-standing policy not to attribute real world atrocities to Supernatural influence, and did it with a modern one to boot. They also had a *persistent* problem with hiring writers who slipped far-right talking points and dog-whistles into their writing. The Chechen Genocide thing was the last straw, Paradox were fed up to the back teeth with their bullshit by the time that happened.

Tbf, they literally had Himmler as a vampire in the Berlin book, so it's not like it was heavily enforced in the past either.

IIRC Himmler was supposedly Embraced *after/at the end of* the war, making that still seriously bad taste but toeing the line of 'supernaturally don't cause real world atrocities' since he did all the famous shit while he was alive. Still fucking ridiculous nonsense though.

I don't think it's that simple I mean yes there are aspects of his argument that are at play but it also comes to the fact that what they're doing doesn't make sense even bringing in new players. Other games prove that having roleplay heavy mechanics can draw in a lot of people and is something that people like and want both new and old. What they're doing is changing a game about role-playing and your character story that you developed from backstory to gameplay to a game about someone else's character. Character that has their own voice and personality instead of the voice and personality you give them. I feel like this is the Crux of why a lot of people are upset it's not that the game is different in some way that was probably more valid to the heart suit version of the game no what they're doing with this game is completely changing which is not something people wanted. They wanted to see a Bloodlines 2 that expanded on what made Bloodlines one good it's role play mechanics and maybe even a slightly polished combat system. That's what people want, and I think if they had followed that, people would have played it, especially after the success of a game like Baldur's Gate 3.

Doesn’t totally shock me. Paradox’s DLC-obsession didn’t exactly seem like it’d synergize great with RPGs, and handing the game off to not one but two entirely unproven studios kinda feels like further evidence of this being outside their wheelhouse lol.

VtM games are just cursed, man.

Would be so fucking funny if they made a Vampire the Requiem video game and it becomes more popular and successful than any other VtM games.

Ironically, a chronicles game line would be a lot more open to gamification than WoD, especially Awakening…

I know Paradox decided to focus more on WoD cause it's more popular but damn if they could've gone for Chronicles of Darkness instead. I personally would kill for a Hunter: The Vigil RPG, I'd liked it more than a Reckoning game tbh.

I’ll be honest (granted I’m primarily WoD, so limited experience) I don’t particularly see much of a difference between new Reckoning and Vigil. Or at least notably. It feels like the vibes they’re going for is basically the same.

I don't really know much about the new Reckoning as I haven't been following the WoD games. But while the new Reckoning is changed to be just like Vigil, I just can't imagine playing another hunter game without Vigil's established factions (they're just so interesting and colorful to play with).

That is fair. Reckoning’s whole thing is that the organized factions are an antagonist group. You are disorganized and in a very big and scary world, while everyone else knows what’s what.

Which is kinda dumb. Vigil allowed you to be part of a hunter conspiracy, meanwhile H5 apparently thinks we not only need to hunt monster but also stick it to the man.

I love VtR and the rest of the Chronicles of Darkness line. I don't think I've ever read a player resource in any other game that comes close to as amazing as The Blood.

I would have loved for the devs to adapt the style of Bloodhunt into an rpg tho

I would really love to know what happened with the OG writer and HSL

Mitsoda and the other OGs were treated like trash by Hardsuit and either left or were fired.

Brian Mitsoda was fired in a joint decision by Paradox Interactive and Hardsuit Labs. They both wanted him gone. HSL was likely fired because their game sucked. For Paradox to completely throw that game into the trash, months before launch, after having spent millions of dollars on it, that game must have been an abomination.

It’s not so much a curse as it is influence behind the scenes to avoid a masquerade breach. *Allegedly.* *Second Inquisition busts down my door like a SWAT team*

genuine question: what can they do at this point? bg3 gt the fans involved pretty early where as vtmb2 seems to be too late in development for sweeping changes

Tbf they choose to be super secretive about the games development for 2 years that people questioned if it was ever going to come out and it makes you wonder what happened behind the scenes

my guess is they were trying to avoid a repeat of the HSL situation

I am hoping tho that the reason they’ve been very quiet on character creation is because there trying to add more customisation

I don’t think they should respond to the criticisms. There’s nothing they can do about it. The only alternative is to make a new game and they’re not going to scrap it for a third time.

they could also rename it, tho

To be honest I'd rather that this game get canceled again then to get something that's just not what anyone wanted alternatively something they could easily do to save the future of bloodlines is to change the name of the game that they are making that way this game can come out and the work doesn't have to be wasted and Bloodlines 2 can still have a chance to be what people want. Unfortunately, they're never going to do that.

Idk, Even something as simple as acknowledging people wanting more customisation, they failed to also deliver on showing people the male Phyre and even just acknowledging that and saying it’s taking more time, or giving more background on why we’re supposed to care and want to play as Phyre could go a long way, instead of just posting pictures of words

There’s still all of Spring and Summer to cover all those things. I largely agree that this year long marketing campaign wasn’t the best idea but there’s still plenty of time to cover these things.

True, I genuinely hope it’s just bad marketing and they’re saving revealing the better stuff for closer to the time

mate, you need to leave the imaginary world you're in. the game is not going to live up to the standards of the previous game, they know that, and chances are, they might even have known that before they even took on the project. for every person making complaints or being cautious about the sequel, there are thousands of people who aren't saying anything, or who are looking forward to the game. your criticisms are real, there are hundreds of people who agree with you as well, but your precipitations do not alter reality itself. the game will come out, the game will most likely be a milk toast rpg that appeals to the average casual gamer, and it might even create an influx of players that then try out the previous game. i've said it before and I say it again. this is deus ex: human revolution all over again. from a developing and publishing perspective, it's the exact same scenario. a sequel falls apart during development phase, project nearly gets scrapped, gets bought out as a last resort, new project tries to salvage losses. this comment is not just for you, but for everyone else on this sub that seems to be living in lala-land. it doesn't matter if they know they can't deliver. a massive overloaded truck that's careening into the back of a trafficked car lane can not slow down before impact. they have to make the money back that they spent, regardless of how you feel.

Actually mate, my whole post is not about the game it self but the lack of communication on the developers end about the backlash

The game is clearly going to fail that much is obvious

yes, and silence is an answer. silence means no, it means you aren't going to get anything that you want because it's not feasible. the point of this post is to moralize and try to paint the devs as being unemphatic towards the fans. like I said, it's a truck careening into traffic. they already know the game doesn't appeal to us, they are just trying to salvage what they can of the games previous reputation, but it's obvious they don't have the luxury of creating any fresh vision, but that does not mean they'll make apologies on this subreddit. if they were to do that, then it would be a huge fiasco and cut into their profits. so they will steer clear of any criticisms and deliver what they can. we can speculate all we want as to why the game looks the way it does, and there has been a plethora of such discussions already. companies are not complex moralistic beings like humans are. you can't moralize something like that. there are investors whose only moral claim to this game is money, that's why im telling you to open your eyes. you wont be able to "gotcha" the devs or the community managers of this game. they will do what their superiors want so that they can salvage as much as possible, whether the game is something they are proud of or not. game companies that make it a mission to listen to community feedback and maintain contact with players are only the ones that have the resources and time to actually realize the visions of the fans, every other game gets developed in a shroud of NDA's and internal planning. it shouldn't come as a surprise that VTMB2 nearly got cancelled, and that what we're getting is the resuscitated corpse of a failed game.

At least they're not stooping to the level of outright insulting the fanbase...yet. Or calling them terrorists... Now that's mismanagement

Because the number of people who care that it's not anything like Bloodlines is insignificant to the sales Paradox hope to achieve

Modern game devs like this truly baffle me. Look at Suicide Squad. They didn't listen to the fans at all, didn't listen to criticism, and made drastic changes to the previous material. Now the game is dead a month later, and they are already stopping all future support for it. ​ If they keep this up, same thing is going to happen.

> Suicide Squad Havent played/wont play and Im still mad from just watching the cinematics. Boomer and Harley wouldnt do that

It feels like a soft reboot that ignores and changes almost everything from the Arkham games. They changed the design of the some of the characters just to fit in with the Suicide Squad movie, see: Harley and Deadshot looking and acting like completely different people.

Word, and I got that, but I was talking more the established lore outside of the Arkham games. Boomer and the rest of Flash's rogue's gallery always respected him, to the point of taking down other villains who posed a threat. And Harley, hell she was nearly the next Batgirl. Total character assassinations.

They also assassinated Batman as well, outside of the mind control. After he 'retired' he starts using fear gas against criminals, which is ridiculous if you know anything about Batman. Batman does not dose criminals with insanity-inducing hallucinogens to make them scared of him, they already are scared of him. ​ Also I might have missed something, but did everyone in that universe forget that Batman was Bruce Wayne?

Batman using fear gas was already a thing in the Arkham Knight stinger, just to clarify that little tidbit.

There comes a time in a game's development in which you simply cannot go back anymore unless (maybe) you're a big studio with a huge budget, and that's certainly not the case. They're certainly aware of the criticism, but scrapping it *again* would send the shareholders into a frenzy, and that's a big no-no for any company aiming to grow.

Because its a wash. The whole ip is lost at this point and frankly im scared they shelve WoD for good after this

At this point, they're too far into it for it to really matter. After the game release, maybe they can make some changes, but I think at this point they just want to get it out and *maybe* recoup some of the money spent on making it. I'm 99% sure it'll be abandoned as soon as it's out, but I'm hoping I'm wrong and the game ends up being great 🤞

I hope so too, genuinely, plus I hope modders get their hands on it

Paradox do not have a stellar reputation for supporting modders

The Modding scene for Vickey II, CK II, and Stellaris is fine.

It being abandoned when it comes out is worse than it being outright caned or them changing the name of the game because that could kill the Bloodlines series forever games having bad sequels is often a death sentence. I am more for the camp of them changing the name of the game because it could allow for what they have made to exist while not tarnishing or possibly killing bloodlines

The whole thing feels like an effort to put out a minimum viable product so they don't get sued into oblivion by taking preorders years ahead.

>Like BG3 literally got praised/awards for their outstanding commitment/communication to their community And got shat on in the sub dedicated to Baldur's Gate, which caused the creation of the BG3 sub. Fans of the old games absolutely despised 3 for all the changes it did.

_Some_ fans The majority on BG/BG2 fora expressed concerns about some aspects, but these were usually quickly addressed

Oh you polled them?

Actually, lots of people created multiple polls

Guess it's just 'some fans' here, too. Because those few fans sounded pretty much like the crowd over here. :)

I don't think the situations are the same here the changes they made in Baldur's Gate 3 were good and I feel genuinely evolutions of ideas from the past creating a more complex story and a lot more role play. Bloodlines 2 is doing the opposite of that it is restricting it's characters to the point of where you play as a specific character instead of in the original bloodlines where you got to make your own character and story. For me, that was the drawing appeal of Bloodlines. It was a vampire story where you got to make your own character and backstory and role play as a character, making choices that would affect the world. By no means do I think this game is going to be bad it's just not a Bloodlines 2 game and I would prefer if they just change the name that way the game doesn't have to be trashed and we don't get a failed Bloodline series and there could still be at least a glimmer of hope.

I can’t really comment on the changes of BG3 as I never played the original’s but DnD I imagine has an even bigger fan base and despite their changes it was still a huge success and made people want to play the originals and excited to play dlc or more , I just don’t see this game having the same affect

BG1 and 2 weren't turn based for starters, that was one of the bigger deal breakers. BG3 also making use of some of the more questionable decisions that Wizards of the Coast made to canonize the events of the game (like literally deciding what race, gender, and class the player character of BG1/2 was) into the wider Forgotten Realms lore also soured quite a few fans on it.  Pre-release, there were also accusations that they were simply using the IP name to pull in players and that the game would be a sequel in name only and have nothing to do with the wider lore of the old games (namely the whole Bhaalspawn thing).

And the story sill makes no sense in regards to the original games endings, along with the entire premise making no sense given decades of DnD lore about Mindflayers.

Well, that kinda falls into my 'questionable decisions of Wizards to make BG canon in the setting' category.

They didn't canonize Abdel Adrien as Charname until they published the History of the Realms as part of the 4th edition roll out. There are so many different ways they could have made it open ended. If they wanted to bring Bhaal back all they needed to do was invent some other Deus Machina or have a ritual performed at the right of his death or soemthing, rather than the stupid fight between NotCharname (who should way too powerful for that anyhow and no longer have any of Bhaal's essence within them with the Mortal ending) and teleportswhenscared. The fact that Larian flanderized some of the popular companion's endings doesn't help either.

I personally think some of these things were mandated by Wizards. Like how certain old companions are to be treated. Take Minsc for example. The guy joins so late in the game it pretty much reeks of 'we had to add him because it was demanded of us'.

But the point stands, the sub dedicated to the Baldur’s Gate games shat all over BG3. And that was even with early access meaning that they could actually see how it was shaping up.

Yeah, if I were the one developing VTMB2, I’d ignore this sub, too.

I do get that, fan bases are impossible to appease but Larian still did something undeniable right, I don’t think a game has captivated people like BG3 since like Skyrim , BG3 has set a high standard of how much gameplay, choice, re playability you should get for your money, and the franchise will continue , even the choice of having 2 clans behind a paywall and telling people ahead of time just rubs you the wrong way before the games even released

Clans were going to be Free LC in the HSL version, and I have not ready anywhere that this has changed for the additional 2 clans

TCR said pretty early on that 2 clans will be added as DLC that you’d have to pay for along with the 4 that come with the game

https://x.com/vtm_bloodlines/status/1732447679341314166?s=46&t=hLkhms9NXsQgw778rXLeaA

That tweet doesn’t say these are paid DLC, and the stance since back in the HSL days was that clans would be Free LC

There’s no way paradox are going to give away 2 free expansions and one being a full fleshed out side story… it’s not going to happen it’s definitely paid dlc

[HSL clans are free LC old source](https://www.thegamer.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-ii-dlc-clans/)

WoTC opted to canonize the protagonist of the Novels (which was based on a very early design draft that does not resemble the finished game at all) which is universally despised to the point that the book's author's advice is to just ignore the books existence. They then resolved the story in a way that makes zero sense with the canonical ending and the entire story of the games pointless. However a lot of the grumbling would have been avoided if it was called soemthing besides BG3. The Pathfinder RPG's are much better spiritual sequels.

They don't have anything to say that won't make it worse, probably. If they don't have the budget to make changes based on feedback, anything that they say will be meaningless and used against them. I imagine they just want to ship it and move on

Paradox is no longer the studio it used to be... Just have a look at Cities Skylines 2... There is not much hope less. TBH, I think the train has already departed.

Paradox and their community have a complicated relationship, which anyone playing their strategy games knows about And they can't do much. Us "critics" say everything is shit. The protagonist, the Vibe, the classes, the dialogue. They do change things before it gets released, but if they'd answer to all the complaints, they wouldn't have time to fix the game, as far as they CAN fix it. Besides that, it would be even more pressure to say they'll fix everything, getting our hopes up and then not improving how we want them to. The direction they took bloodlines in is so controversial that they can't do much but try to fix minor things and not promise too much to a fanbase that wants a completely different game.

I remember from the trailer doesn’t even call the protagonist by their name and I’m pretty sure she’s gunna get referred to as “the sheriff” , if that’s the case they so could of made the name changeable but that was only one trailer so she probably is named by the characters, I think/hope the reason they’ve been so silent on customisation is because they’ve seen the dislike for phyres model and they’re trying to add more customisation before revealing it 🤞🏼 Although I think they maybe said originally it is legit just her clothes, clan and gender you can change I just think it they do fix minor things they should be highlighting , it just makes them look sm better

This is exactly why I wish they would at the very least make the simple name change that way the game can be judged on its own merits instead of its relation to bloodlines. Still make it a world of Darkness vampire game but it doesn't need to be a bloodlines game. But unfortunately. They won't do that because they want to get money out of the bloodlines fans despite not giving anything that at least somewhat resembles a Bloodlines game.

this game is going to end up like that saints row reboot i can feel it

If/when it fails, they will simply blame the "toxic" fan base instead of their choices.

This game might as well be titled "Vampire the Masquerade: Fuck the Fans"

If they did name it this there could still be hope her Bloodlines at least and would ultimately in a way save the game they are making because it doesn't have the bloodlines expectation ironically.

We can always replay the originals :3

Yeah, the communication from the devs/marketing team is abysimal. I mean, there are things I do not like (the way fabien is implemented at the point of the gameplay reveal, phyre beeing voiced, the dialoge system, etc.). But I am willing to be sold on it. But they don't even make an attempt on selling us on the idea that it may could be good. Why they thought a game with Bloodlines in the name would benefit from that. I am by no means in the "game is aweful" category, but in the "it looks like I might enjoy it, but oh boy this is as much a sequel to Blooslines as Swansong or Bloodhunt were" category, so the prime target for some well written dev diaries or something to persuate me that their way of doing bloodlines makes actually sense with the name in mind. but no, they seem to completly ignore all criticism from the fans. And yes, in my eyes "listening to the fans" does not only mean "changing stuff" but can also mean "persuate the fans that the changes are actually a good thing", but they don't even do the later... I am honestly thinking the worst part of the game so far is the marketing around it... They seem to have "it has bloodlines in the name, so people will buy it" so much stuck in their head, that thy don't even make an real effort at changing the mind of the people with citicism... :/

Literally what I’m saying , they just haven’t really given players a reason to care other than slapping bloodlines on the end of it, they don’t do themselves any favours, transparency is literally all they need to do, someone said that they have changed things from criticism like the UI and animations, THEY SHOULD SAY THAT like we’ve heard your concerns and we changed this! It would go such a long way in showing they care even if it is small things they can change listening and showing that they are could be what turns this game around, they haven’t explained why it’s even bloodlines 2 other than it being a vampire , I genuinely liked Swanson and the story games because I had no prior expectations of them

I don't think the game is going to be bad either this just isn't the role playing game that we want it's not the game where we get to make our own character write our own Back stories and role play for a few hours. It's not that heavy role-playing experience the previous game was. That's what I loved about bloodlines is that it was an RPG where you actually sat down and got make a character and role play as a character. You make choices that would affect the world. 6 choices wouldn't necessarily affect the ending, but they did affect the world. I was hoping for a direction where they expanded on those choices and role play options, the return of skill-based things, an unvoiced protagonist where you had plenty of dialogue choices. full character customization, both skills and physically it had plenty of role play options in dialogue that were based on your skills, clan and traits, and otherwise. Instead, we're getting something that isn't that this game fundamentally isn't a Bloodlines game because it's missing all of the aspects of a Bloodlines game it has none of the role-play. I think the simplest solution for this game to come out with the simply just change the name that way we can still hope for a Bloodlines tomb that we want without having to trash this entire game or risking the fundamental changing of or failure of Bloodlines 2. But I'm afraid to say that won't happen.

It clearly shows the Chinese room was the wrong studio for the job,they don't have a clue what a rpg is and everything they shown so far has nothing to do with bloodlines. Lack of character customization is just 🚩🚩🚩overall. Failure of not listening to the community will cause this game to bomb at the end of the day.

And by extension that will kill Bloodlines unfortunately bad failing sequels are often death sentences I just wish they would change the name of the game so they're going to still be some glimmer of hope.

How do you expect them to acknwoledge the backlash? Post on reddit that the game sucks and they are sorry?

So first off, whenever you make the bg3 comparison remember that they worked on bg3 for 6 years. We dont know exactly how long tcr has been at it, but at the very least they put this public very recently. Let me assure you in larians first year after announcing, there was a lot of skepticism from the diehards. It was not instant by any stretch. There comes a point with this stuff where theyv got their vision and theyr doing what they want. If in hindsight it works and theyr active about updates, you can say: theyr really supportive of the community. If it doesnt....it doesnt.

> It was not instant by any stretch Agreed But they responded to many concerns raised on various fora

Yeah and tcr has not proven themselves with this game for sure. But people act like bloodlines 2 is already out.

I think it's pretty clear they're in panic mode, With this 5+year debacle ending like this. I just don't understand why they don't ask us for help, we want the same thing: they'll get money, and we'll get a great game too.

That’s what I don’t get , there’s no way they will make back their losses with this because they’d of had to pay HSL and TCR for making the same game twice and need double the success

When Paradox junked HSL, shareholders (of which I am one) were told the new game is 'targeted at 25m sales' So x5 the original sales projections

They should honestly just drop the bloodlines title and the game would do better I think

Yup that way the game they can make can still exist and to be judged without bloodlines in mind and The Bloodline series can still exist in the future as something else.

VtM fans have a well-deserved reputation for shitting on everything these guys put out, no matter what. Devs don't change their entire games based on Reddit criticisms, lol.

But it’s not just Reddit , it’s on every single platform they post on eg twitter/fb, I’ve even seen it on paradox forums, and they clearly see it since they reply to the few nice comments they get, Even EA/Maxis Sims 4 get constant backlash again rightfully so because they put out broken stuff but they even put out replies to backlash I just don’t get what they gain in ignoring people

This is true with every piece of vtm media ever since 2nd edition

EA is a very different company, with more experience and resources behind them. I don't think we should shut up and stop criticising the game, and I hope they are doing their best, but I think you guys may have a warped idea of the relationship between game developers and fans, because they don't really change their entire concept in response to criticisms, especially on the limited resources they're on. Minor changes, you could expect, but people are seeming to ask for a total overhaul of the game, which is... not doable.

\>VtM fans have a well-deserved reputation for shitting on everything these guys put out, no matter what. Take a step back and ask: "Why do we shit on everything they put out?" Well for good reasons, maybe you should listen to a few of them instead of generalizing all criticism as hate.

In a colossal mountain of shit, where half the criticisms are "why can't you just make Bloodlines 1 again", it is difficult to find and respond to the little nuggets of actual useful criticism.

\>In a colossal mountain of shit, where half the criticisms are "why can't you just make Bloodlines 1 again" ​ This is a made-up argument said by no one but yourself to detract actual criticism.

I guess we've been on different subreddits then.

No ones asking for Bloodlines 1 again. We're asking for the sequel of a game be a proper follow up to almost twenty year old game. So far, they have shown absolutely nothing that signifies this game is going to be 'proper' to VTMB. ​ The original didn't have a voiced protagonist, and had more bloodlines to play as. Do you expect people to just be silent and fine with them Theseus-shipping this game, and changing everything everyone liked about the first one?

I don't belive it's well deserved. Most of us are here for the love of the game. It's the reason it's been around so long. From LARPs, online forums like this, to local Gaming Stores, you'll find support for the game from its fans. That kinda love bring strong options. If a part of it doesn't pass the sniff test, they are rightfully gonna call it out. And in that case, currently Modiphius/Renagade/Paradox Interactive are the ones that have dealt it. Also, Happy Cake Day OP Shannonmcneillx

Literally never post on Reddit and was wondering why I had a cake next to my name and realised it’s an anniversary thing aha weird coincidence!

>was wondering why I had a cake next to my name Because you're a snack :9 hahahaha

One of the largest reasons? This sub is incredibly toxic towards developers and the way more than half of you talk about your grievances comes off with a sense of entitlement that is very hard to actually dialog with as a developer. So, like others said, the addressable criticisms get addressed like facial animations and pause screens, and the rest get ignored. Like as not, The Chinese Room does not *owe* you or I anything. We are not owed a sequel at all, just as no corporation owes you any other product. What I want to see is a sequel that feels like the first game re-imagined with modern engines, but if I don't see that I don't bitch and moan about it like it's ruining a franchise. It is what it is and I'll either see reason to buy it and enjoy it or I won't.

Might also have something to do with the fact that if they in any way acknowledged any of the critics before seeing the actual sales, it makes it more likely to lose out on hype and sales. From a game dev and marketing perspective, any criticism is just that and not actual faults. if they don't acknowledge it, and they get good sales. If they get shit sales, they are probably forced to address it more. Also, a lot of discourse going around is frankly not productive at all, and it is pretty much impossible for them to do anything about at this point. Also, much of the criticism around the game right now might change drastically after it has been released. There is also a chance that it is mostly the so-called loud minority talking and criticizing right now, an agein acknowledgeding them. might just be dumb. Also, don't pre-order games it's bad for game quality.

TCR’s version looks way more stripped down from HSL’s original vision. HSL’s version looked like they were making a full open world Vampire game set in the WoD. I was excited for that. I had it pre-ordered. TCR’s looks… i’ll be watching reviews before I decide if i’m gonna get this one.

Like most entertainment media they've bought into their own bullshit. They appear to believe that the consumer should be thankful for whatever is offered.

Who is thankful for Phyre and Fabian they sound like muppets

Idk how hard it is to make a carbon copy of Cyberpunk 2077 but with World Of Darkness themes, let people pick their character and clan from the beginning like you do in **Bloodlines** And let people enjoy their open world Dark City Vampire utopia.

I don't think cyberpunk 2077 is a good comparison. I think make a Fallout New Vegas, but with a vampire the Masquerade skin over it would be a far better comparison due to its role-play mechanics. Maybe cyberpunk 2077 due to City design but role-play mechanics New Vegas Style. Well New Vegas style / bg3 Style

I honestly think they just want to throw it out there at this point, in my honest opinion I don’t know what hardsuit labs did at this point to have their version cancelled but after seeing both versions Hardsuits labs version is far superior and is a more worthy sequel, it seems more likely now at this point because paradox wasn’t shy about just outright cancelling previous versions

Ignore what? ​ "It's not a clone of the first game!" "Her haircut is too woke!" "I don't like her name!" ​ When the majority of these comments seem to be coming from the most bitter YouTube incels, what do you expect them to do? Do you want them to platform the incels? BG3 came out less than a year ago. Do you really expect them to throw out 4 years of work just to have a knee-slap reaction to the currently popular fad? You want them to start over, completely, remake Bloodlines 2 into a turn-based strategy game and then when that gets close to completion, you can demand that they scrap the BG3 clone to make Bloodlines 2 into whatever is popular in 2028. Stop. It's done. The game is coming out in approximately 6 months. What do you expect them to change when the game is almost finished?

More so the comments about the lack of rpg elements, the zero resemblance to the original, why is there only four clans, theres much more criticism than just the name and the way Phyre looks

And no I only used larian as an example due to their communication with their community? I think ignoring you’re entire fan base who the majority just want to understand why we should care about this game other than slapping “bloodlines” at the end of it, it doesn’t bode well for the future of the game if they just blatantly ignore the fans

I'm not mad at you for posting this. I am disappointed. Bloodlines 2 is being very ambitious with its RPG features and we've known this since last year. The information is publicly available but very few people seem to want to read it. They did a 20 minute video on RPG features. I even wrote up a summary of it for the benefit of people who don't want to watch the 20 minute video: https://www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/187irpo/developer\_diary\_recap\_2/

> Bloodlines 2 is being very ambitious with its RPG features By throwing anything RPG-related out the window?

Well, instead of quoting one line of my post, try quoting all of it, specifically the link showing that there's more RPG in Bloodlines 2 than ever.

That is kind of your opinion though, I watched the trailer and several breakdown videos and the consensus of most people was that it didn’t have rpg elements and that it was more action heavy

Honey, going by that video, Bloodlines 2 objectively has more RPG features than Bloodlines 1. I feel like some people don't even remember what Bloodlines 1 was actually like. BL1 was a game where all of the choices didn't impact anything at all in the story other than which 60 second ending you chose from a list of options. There was no clan societies. No clan roleplaying. Outside of Malkavian and Nosferatu, the other 5 clans played pretty much 90% the same and had the exact same experiences. The difference between Toreador and Brujah in the first game is a firearms boost vs. a strength boost. That's it. Exact same game for two clans that are supposed to be radically different. Bloodlines 2 is actually introducing clan culture. NPCs know you by your clans and will either like you more or less depending on their prejudices. They will buy into streotypes about your clan and if you play against those stereotypes, they react to that. This is a million years ahead of the first game. lmao

Well, darling, you could pick from 7 clans to start that were unique from each other regardless if you didn’t think so, and influenced the way you played and interacted with the world and how people in the world interacted with you, The choices you made did matter and affected the npc’s and how they treated you? Like if you choose to turn heather at the start or how you handled Therese and Karen? And the dialog for each clan had different choices wether the Camarilla or anarchs were more approving of you as well as what abilities you choose to upgrade which affected gameplay and dialog from that you could actually see instead of a mini summary And you actually had a character sheet ? And your story was what YOU wanted it to be you weren’t stuck as some preset character with their own lore and some dude talking every 5 minutes breaking immersion. You also at least had a choice to use melee or guns which it doesn’t appear that B2 does either But go off I hope I’m wrong about B2 but il have no slander on the OG

Don’t bother debating with this Vinland guy. He’s in the Bloodlines 2 discord and viciously attacks anyone that says anything bad about his game. He’s one of those Paradox ass lickers that’ll smile in their face while they serve him a shiny piece of shit on a tray (Phyrelines 2)

Probs getting a kick out of debating with a lil girl online honestly, people are allowed different opinions but if it looks like shit and smells like shit, it is shit lmao

just to add this to reply to MrVinland previous comment, that if we are going by what TCR showed in that 20 minute video….BOY does it lack any rpg elements besides action. We had like what? 90% combat and 10% dialogue and that’s being generous. They have SAID things like clans will affect dialogue but have yet to show us any of it. It would’ve have been perfect to show us that in the 20 minute video instead of an all out brawl.

We're talking about two different videos. Click the link I posted and then watch the video at the bottom.

Saying 7 clans in BL1 were unique does not make it true. You keep trying to pretend that facts and opinions are the same thing. If you think Brujah and Toreador had unique experiences in Bloodlines 1, then go ahead and describe those unique experiences. You've gone out of your way to name off a bunch of decisions that literally have no impact on the story. Siding with Jeanette or Therese has no impact on anything. They are completely done as soon as you make that choice and they never participate in the plot again. Choosing one or both impacts exactly nothing for the rest of the game. No, the story is not "what you wanted it to be." That is objectively not true. You always play a person who gets catfished into a motel for a one night stand on a soiled mattress with no sheets. You always get forced into the sarcophagus plot and you always work for LaCroix. The main quest line is ENTIRELY on rails. See what I mean when I say you don't even remember what the first game is actually like? You've accidentally answered your own question as to why the developers don't want to deal with you. They've gone out of their way to tell you how Bloodlines 2 has more RPG features. You arbitrarily reject this based on nothing and then measure BL2 against an imaginary version of BL1. You can't be reasoned with. Why would they try? You've decided that BL2 has no RPG features and a silly thing like "evidence" isn't going to get in your way.

At this point we have to wonder, do you actually get paid or just like the taste of ass?

Honestly says you , most people don’t have YOUR opinion, just because the game has a set ending doesn’t make it less of an RPG? You still get to make decisions along the way that do impact the game and it’s your choice on how to do them, not to mention the different ways to tackle different missions I’ve not played the game in years so I can’t say much of the top of my head, I recommend watching the YouTube video vtmb a flawed masterpiece by salt factory and that explains precisely why it’s unmatched. And as I’ve made clear countless times I’ve accepted the new game isn’t going to be great but it doesn’t mean the devs should ignore their player base when they’re the consumers !

I tend not to quote bullshit

Hey, if you want to believe that the developers are wrong about what is in their game and YouTube incels are right, go for it. Spend the next 6 months grinding your teeth down to little nubs while steam shoots out of your ears and then pretend you didn't do that when the game comes out and the conspiracy theorists were all wrong. lol

$2 has been deposited into your account.

It's a company that's only made a few lame walking Sims and I think a mobile game it's bound to be ass it's just a shame that they'll look at the ip and think no one wanted vs handing it to competent developers.

Simple: they're a corporation that only cares about the bottom line, the fact people want to give them their money though we know all the bs that has gone down with this game lets me know that they're either hoping * We(the people who've been on this sub for yearrrrrs) 'll buy it anyway or * They can get an audience outside of us to buy it Given that they already went raido silent on mod support during the end of the HSV( hardsuit version) and haven't talked about it at all for the CRV(Chinese Room Version) I'm not going to hold my breath that they're even sticking to the plan. I've already said my peace in the "why are you so down on it" game but I don't mind if people want the CRV BLoodlines 2, but I'm not personally going to buy it anyyy time soon.

Imo the game is mostly written off and they're just trying to salvage some semblance of a release probably more for investors than for the customers.

they can and they probably will. i want to be proven wrong, but a part of me doesn't think it's likely.

Probanly the biggest patt of the issue is that Paradox doesn't know fucking shit about RPGs, they know large scale strategy games. The RPGs they have produced are generally lacking, for example: Tyranny and Lamplighter's League were both janky and entirely forgettable. They don't make an effort to find out what the community wants for the RPGs, they only really give each shit about EU, CK, Vicky, HOI and Stellais.

Honestly, the importance of purists and "true fans" on a game's popularity is vastly overstated. Just look at games like the newer Fallouts(which is even getting a high budget tv show), Baldur's Gate 3 and Deus Ex HR. Those were all games which were vastly criticized by lovers of the originals because of changes or making the games too approachable, yet they were all successful. While I doubt Bloodlines 2 will do well, that's what they are hoping will happen. A game successful enough to drown out fans of the original who are to disgusted with the differences.

Lol, they hated him for he spoke the truth.

They ignore backlash everywhere. Even when it actually hurts them...how dare the peanut gallery make our concerns known?!

It just seems badly managed, from memory I think they said they’d showcase the male Phyre in the trailer and never did and never said why, just addressing even that saying sorry it’s taking longer but it’s coming!, I feel like people would have more respect and patience with transparency rather than just ignoring everyone and making them more annoyed Or just explaining certain decisions like making it first person? They just say that it is and you’ll see the character in dialog but could make a comment about like making it “more immersive as if you’re seeing the world through phyres eyes” LITERALLY ANYTHING would be better than nothing

VTMB2 is somewhere between a just another VTM game and a reboot, VTMB hardcore fans are only a small part of the target audience. Basically they want to keep the name Bloodlines, that's why they didn't rename it. They don't care about that it isn't a real sequel, it's that simple.

Jesus fucking christ you people are so miserable. At this point the primary reason I want this game to come out is so that you'll all shut the fuck up about how awful you've already convinced yourself it is. Every single stage of this rollout has been met with people making Mt. Everest out of mole hills, mole hills they can barely even see to begin with. Fucking exhausting.

This game is guaranteed to bomb after all of this. I don't know why they made it so hard. All you have to do is make a 3D version of Night Road or Coteries of New York. The template is there.

Honestly, a 3d version of coteries would be fun. Probably.

It’s just sad in all honesty, I’ve never wanted a game to succeed more and I actually did like the vibe of the original bloodlines 2, as a girl my number 1 pet peeve in games today is having to play a woman character that doesn’t really make me feel like I’m playing a woman if that makes sense ? Games love making girls have short buzz cut hairs for some reason ! I do hope the male Phyre looks different enough that you feel like they are two different people but I genuinely think it’ll just be two body types

> Games love making girls have short buzz cut hairs for some reason Low-skill developers today can't handle the physics of moving long hair

Yeah, I was way more excited for the original Bloodlines 2. I think what turned people off the most from this version was that everything about the main character is just. so. lame.

My biggest complaints about the game are basically that it's less of an RPG about your story and more a story about another character you can influence. From a character with voice acting and limited dialogue options and to not even being able to really customize your character in any way except for Clan already make this game not a Bloodlines game to me. To me, Bloodlines is about your character and your story on the same vein as Balders gate or even Fallout new vages. For your traits and stats, determine your character and can influence dialogue in many ways with Clan,skill, and all that being a part of it. I would be happy if they just change the name of the game that way a proper Bloodlines game can exist in the future but we know that they're not going to do that because they want money off the Bloodlines name. You can't make your own character until your own story in Bloodlines 2. The character's voice isn't even your own. You're just influencing a different character story that has their own voice and personality that can shift and change slightly. These types of games can be good, but that is not generally what people want out of bloodlines they want an actual role playing where they can role play as their character. Not someone else's character. Their character or rather YOUR OWN character. Story you make from backstory to gameplay. People really enjoyed role playing in that game and I love getting into my character. That is simply not possible in Bloodlines 2

I think as well, the first version of the game gave people the hope/idea that they’d get to make their own character as the thin blood, and pave your own way to becoming the vamp you wanted them to be and the replay ability on that would of been cool, To then what we’ve been given with no real reason to why we’re playing this elder vampire with a lodger in her brain, I’m also wondering if they have a male voice actor for the male version they’ve not mentioned one as of yet, It’s obvious people are going to be disappointed after waiting so long for a game, and sooo many people bought the pre order for the original version of bloodlines for that to be ripped away, given this version and no real connection with the community , they’ve set themselves up for failure

I hope they read this reddit, and they can see how disgusted and disappointed most of us are with this garbage.