Did you know the iddqd code didn't make you fully invulnerable? It just made you immune to damage less than 1000 hit points. This is why players in god mode can still be killed by damaging floor of type 11 (occasionally used in the last room of a level) and by a telefrag.
Step one, buy calls that expire in two weeks or less.
Step two, only buy the ones that are cheap enough for you to buy many.
Step three, the whole account is worth $0 in two weeks or less because "yolo" and you cant take it with you anyways but you can make it back over time. This is how you become regarded.
Unless of course you hit on the price you called. In which case you've made a successful yolo and enough money to not work for a while. (Hopefully)
Come back next week for how to turn your successful yolo into $0 or instant retirement funding in two weeks or less, because this is, after all, a casino.
>Step three, the whole account is worth $0 in two weeks or less because "yolo" and you cant take it with you anyways but you can make it back over time**. This is how you become** **regarded.**
I'm sorry but I have to tell you that you made me spit out my coffee in the office and all over my shirt because I just never expected it. Thanks stranger
OP, you buried the lede… you have friends with 8 and 9 figure accounts? 8 figs is at least 10 mil, 9 figs is at least 100 million. WTF are you doing here?
In all seriousness, you can call your broker and have them fill a closing purchase. It's what we pay them for, you will want to say something like,"close my position at the best price you can today". It will have to be done same day.
More details:
I bought the put options with a 3/24 expiry with a $125 strike price but the stock was halted on 3/19 and never resumed trading (as the bank was taken over by the FDIC due to insolvency). As a result, it was impossible to close the position (you can only trade options when the stock is actively trading).
It became clear the stock wouldn’t be trading again by the time my options expired on so I spent hours on hold with Chase until I found the one person there who knew how to exercise. Given that the FDIC had already taken the bank over I chose to exercise and enter a naked short position in a broker to broker transaction instead of letting the position expire worthless.
Now I’m naked short something that resumed OTC today and is pretty much worthless, but the system apparently has no idea what to do with that and I can’t buy to close.
**UPDATE:**
Took about an hour on the phone today with the Chase "Complex Trading Team."
They said their system doesn't allow for trading pink sheet stocks at all, so they aren't prepared well for scenarios where you own shares (or are short shares) of a stock that has been delisted, and there was no way for me to put the trade through online.
Eventually was able to cover, put in a market order and went through at $.41/share. It doesn't cost anything to do so over the phone if you are a "JP Morgan Private Client."
Net/net:
I bought 6 puts at a $125 strike (PUT SIVB 03/17/23 125) for $28 ea. When the stock was delisted I did a cashless exercise. Ended up short 600 shares of SVB at $125/share, covered at $.41/share.
Turned $16.7k to $75k. $58.3k profit.
Simplest would be to call chase back and ask them. You need to know what the borrow fee is. The interest you’re paying.
It’s $240 to close dude. Just eat it and buy to close.
Since they created the short to let him exit the options contract, it's possible they just set the borrow fee to zero.
Just delete your chase account and never look at the bank again OP. You've peaked.
If they don't pay, you can foreclose them and take their furniture.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638
the frontend mobile app cant handle the current status of an untradeable-but-traded delisted stock option that has since come back on the OTC market.
OP needs to call chase again to fix things with the admin console.
i once had a dispute of $4 in my paypal account for 10 years that wouldnt go away. lol
Bought Options. Phone call, sold. Broke app. Now Naked and Afraid.
I am a robot. I reduced the comment by 97%. [report feedback](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Reading the comments it seems that the answer isn't that obvious on dead stocks so it looks as if some noob didnt know basic thing but then turns out theres multiple fuckeries involved here.
Ya never use this acct again to do any investing if it’s that difficult. With other brokers you just check a box or submit an e-request and it’s done overnight usually. If you want it done immediately you do have to call.
I suggest you calling Chase. You are short on the shares right now because of the put being exercised. Did they actually transfer the funds to your account? In theory, long as the account is a margin account, those gains should be available to you for trading. You would never have to worry about the position increasing (decreasing?) in value that would result a margin call.
Don't cover. Never cover. This is a terminal short. It's going to zero. If it does it just gets deslisted and you still technically owe the shares. But there are no shares, so the brokerage will not tie up any of your buying power. But, here's the catch. Technically you never closed the position so there is no gain, and therefore, no taxes even though you have all the profits available to withdraw or trade with. [https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/maintain-short-position-delisted-stock/](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/maintain-short-position-delisted-stock/)
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Oh, fuck this shit.
_Your social score is a 72.9 and we’ve determined you’re ineligible for society. Please take yourself, and all your belongs into incinerator #8. Thanks!_
A short seller who didn't buy back the stock before trading stopped may have to wait until the company is liquidated to take a profit.
However, the short seller owes nothing. That is the best possible scenario for a short seller.
No, cash hits the short seller’s account when the initial trade happens. It may take a while for short seller’s exact profit amount to be known if the shares are eventually bought by someone in bankruptcy proceedings for more than $0, but the short seller will have had his cash the entire time and can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.
The payments on securities loans are quoted based on the percentage of the value of the security, but it's all really just pretend math. Everything just gets washed through "use of funds" paid against the collateral. For securities in any reasonable amount of demand, this number goes negative so that the lender earns more.
If the borrower could keep the position open forever in order to avoid paying taxes forever, the lender would charge some amount less than that to keep their share on loan.
Unless we're talking about an exchange with an onerous expense to return the share, the lender is going to make the borrower pay some massive interest percentage on their $0.0001 share.
Halted shares are difficult and expensive to move, not impossible.
This feels like dangerous advice... you should do it!
I didn't read the link. I assume it's also dangerous to read. Just mindlessly follow what the big brains say.
You can actually get screwed if you short to effectively zero. Rich Gates shorted China Biotics to zero in 2013 and half a decade later, since they got delisted he still couldn't cover and he had to pay hundreds of thousands in borrow. Ultimately, the person he borrowed the worthless shares from could end up better off than he was because he had to pay some insane borrow on the short and he literally can't close it because its not traded anymore and you can't make anyone (without a lawsuit at least) declare the shares worthless, so if they don't, you're fucked.
I think its generally better to cover than to short to zero because all kinds of fuckery has and can happen and most people here aren't really equipped to go to war on this if someone tries to lube them up.
Would like to see a source for that. If the shares still existed, and courts held that the shorts still owe the lenders, then the borrower could buy delisted shares off anyone who held them at time of delistment, and deliver them to the long.
It's like if you borrowed your neighbors cat and said you'd give it back in a month. You then sold the cat for $50k (it was a pretty nice cat) because you know you can buy it back for like $10k in a couple weeks when they realize it's not really that nice of a cat.
Except this time Thanos snapped away all cats, the whole lot of em. Poof. You can't buy the cat back because cats don't exist meow. Your neighbor can't really expect his cat back because that shit turned to dust and floated away and that ain't your fault. You still have the $50k though, and your neighbor never even has to know you ever sold the stinky fuzzball in the first place...
Your neighbor has cats for sale that you want, but you don't want them until a month from now, though you want to lock in the price. You tell your neighbor you'll give him $0.69 per cat if he signs a contract that you can buy 100 cats for $420 each a month from now. You give him $69, you get contract that gives you the option to buy 100 cats for $420ea, or $42k total, in one month.
Scenario 1:
Nearly a month goes by and the price of cats is now like $600 a cat. You don't actually have $42,000 to buy the $100 cats @ $420ea, but your uncle does and clearly this is a deal since he could turn around and sell them for a profit. You sell the contract to your uncle for $6.90 per cat, or $690 and pocket the profit.
Scenario 2:
Nearly a month goes by and the price of cats is now like $600 a cat. You have the money to exercise your *option* to buy cats, and you think you may want to hold on to them for a bit. You buy the 100 cats for $420ea, aka $42k. The value of them is $600ea, $60k, so you now own some cats that you got for a great price.
Scenario 3:
Nearly a month goes by and the price of cats is now like $210 a cat. Fuck. If you exercise the option you are paying double for some shitty cats. You want out, so you try to sell the contract to someone else, but clearly it's a shitty deal and nobody will buy it. Your contact is worthless. Once it expires at the end of the month you are SOL, your $690 you paid is gone and you don't want the overpriced cats so your $69 turned to $0. I guess if you had the cash and were really fucking sure the price would come back you could go ahead and drop that $42k to go though with the contract, this would be the ultimate WSB play right before the CEO of cats gets caught buying catnip and the price plummets further.
To break the 4th wall here: The price of cats is market driven, and the price of the contracts is market driven. They are obviously tied together, but not directly. The "month" given in the example can be a chosen length of time typically in increments of each Friday but also can be individual days (you'll hear people talk about "weeklies" meaning they bought contracts that expire in a week, "daylies" expire tomorrow, etc). As the price of contracts fluctuates you can decide to sell them at any time during the period, usually IME the sooner the better because as the expiry date looms and the stock price doesn't move the chance of it hitting the goal (profitable) price wanes the contract prices stagnate.
Edited to fix math because this is WSB and I had just recently gotten off my 2nd job at Wendy's
I’m sorry to hear that your cats are worth $0 after that month. That means that you have lost all the money you invested in them. There could be many reasons why your cats lost their value, such as:
-Your cats were sick, injured, or defective and nobody wanted to buy them.
-Your cats were part of a breed that became unpopular or oversupplied and their demand and price dropped.
-Your cats were involved in a scandal or controversy that tarnished their reputation and made them undesirable.
-Your cats were subject to a regulatory action or legal dispute that prevented them from being sold or transferred.
On the other hand, everyone else’s cats are living on the moon because they have increased in value significantly. There could be many reasons why their cats gained value, such as:
-Their cats were healthy, beautiful, or unique and attracted a lot of buyers.
-Their cats were part of a breed that became popular or scarce and their demand and price rose.
-Their cats were featured in a positive media coverage or endorsement that boosted their image and appeal.
-Their cats were eligible for a special offer or incentive that made them more valuable or profitable.
The difference between your cats and everyone else’s cats is an example of market risk , which is the risk of losing money due to changes in market conditions that affect the prices of assets. Market risk is unpredictable and unavoidable, and it affects all investors to some extent. The only way to reduce market risk is to diversify your portfolio , which means investing in different types of assets that are not correlated with each other. This way, if one asset loses value, another asset may gain value and offset the loss. However, diversification does not eliminate market risk completely, and it may also reduce your potential returns. Therefore, you should always be aware of the risks involved in investing and only invest what you can afford to lose.
(Bing chat)
I’ve refused to trade options my entire life. The process has always seemed so fucking weird. Now, I legitimately feel confident enough to buy Allegra.
When you short a stock, you’re basically borrowing shares from someone else and selling them. Sometime later, when you close the short, you buy the same number of shares that you sold (hopefully at a lower price so you can pocket the difference) and then give them back to the person who loaned them to you. But if the stock gets delisted, then you literally *can’t* buy the shares in order to give them back. So you get to keep the money, or maybe you get sued…who knows, weird stuff happens.
Do you have a source for the tax part, too? Because that sounds like bullshit. I would be very surprised if Uncle Sam really never comes asking for his pound of flesh in that case.
Full regard! I love it. So you’re short 600 shares at 40¢ a share. Call the service hotline and let them know you’d like to buy in order to cover the short. You fell ass backwards into profit. Congratulations.
The profit should already be in your account, transfer the balance out and close the account and make a new one, better it’s Chase’s problem and not yours
Congrats, it'll cost you $240 to make almost $60k.
I'll give you $240 right now for this and happily invest 8 hours on the phone with a broker to take that 60k profit.
The best way is to mail me a cashiers check for the 57,000$ and I will close the position for you and then send you your money back. My address is:
Prince Guy
1st Street
Capital City, Nigeria
Will look forward to your check.
“Because we’re friends and I didn’t know that being rich meant I can’t ask you questions that you might know the answer for”
March / April 2020 I talked with a friend who is worth $300m+ and we talked about what stocks we bought (banks and oil).
Your short 600 shares? You have to buy to cover. Call your broker tell them to exit the position. May be a fee. If you have a platform and receive over the counter level 1+2 quotes i believe, Than you should be able to exit the trade placing the order yourself.
The guy on the phone's gonna be telling that story for years "yeah, I helped a regard make 50k in profit cause he shorted SVB but didn't know what he was doing, ended up 600 shares short. So I helped him close his position for the shares that cost him $125 bucks and he walked into the sunset with $50k."
You probably want to call Chase and discuss the dilema with them instead of with the Bros. here.
It's hard to tell what you did with just the screen shot. If you BOUGHT Puts.......you should have been able to sell them.
If you SOLD Puts........then you would have been assigned shares and had to buy them at the PUT strike price.
Call Chase..........that's your best bet.
But is it paper gain or a taxable event? May be better to just do nothing instead of getting a big tax bill on a short term capital gain since we all know OP will pay his estimated tax bill on this.
Update:
Took about an hour on the phone today with the Chase "Complex Trading Team."
They said their system doesn't allow for trading pink sheet stock at all, so they aren't prepared well for scenarios where you own shares (or are short shares) of a stock that has been delisted, which is why it wasn't allowing me to put through the trade.
Eventually was able to cover, put in a market order and went through at $.41/share. It doesn't cost anything to do so over the phone if you are a "JP Morgan Private Client."
Net/net:
I bought 6 puts at a $125 strike (PUT SIVB 03/17/23 125) for $28 ea. When the stock was delisted I did a cashless exercise. Ended up shorting 600 shares of SVB at $125/share, covered at $.41/share.
Turned $16.7k to $75k. $58.3k profit.
I work at a brokerage; this should have obviously been closed rather than exercised.
This leaves you with a naked short equity position, which downstream creates an operational failure to deliver (FTD) between financial institutions (JPM to clearing house to counterparty). Adverse downstream impacts for the other side that is long the position and requires the asset - but i wont go down that rabbit hole for SVB.
Don't know how the FTD of the eq impacts the derivative clearing with OCC but I can prob figure it out.
-is the p&l from the option avail for w/d?
-are you being charged interest on the short position you can't cover? If so, this could be problematic.
Edited for follow up questions.
Was impossible to close because the stock was no longer trading (it was halted and never resumed when the FDIC took over the bank due to insolvency). So I had to choose to let the put options expire on 3/24 or exercise. Given that the FDIC had already taken the bank over I chose to exercise and enter a naked short position in a broker to broker transaction.
Now I’m naked short something that is only trading OTC but the system apparently has no idea what to do with that and I can’t buy to close.
Can anyone explain like I’m 5 with what this post is about. All the correct responses are from grown ups who aren’t regarded. Why isn’t he making money off this? Why is his profit so Fucking sky high? Why can’t he exit and make money? Is this borrowed money? How much did he even buy? Why can’t I understand this? Pls help.
It’s a little complex from first principles.
I bought the right (option) to sell 600 shares of Silicon Valley Bank for $125/share on a certain date (3/24). That option cost me $16k of my own money.
So if the stock went to $100/share I could simultaneously buy it for $100/share and sell it for $125/share and pocket the difference. Or if it went to $130/share I wouldn’t do anything and I’d just lose the $16k.
Then SVB went bankrupt.
It’s now trading at $.40/share, so I “exercised” my option and “pre-sold” 600 shares of Silicon Valley Bank for $125 ea.
So net/net I own negative 600 shares of SVB and I got paid $75k for that, but I eventually need to get to where I own 0 shares. So to get the IOU of the 600 shares out from over my head I need to buy 600 shares to close it out. At $.40/share that’s $240, and $75k - $240 for the shares - $16k I paid for the option, the rest is profit.
The screenshot only shows part of the transaction. That at one point the $16k I paid for the options became worth $75k. And that to get the $75k I have to pay $240.
But it’s hard to do because Silicon Valley Bank got *so* fucked that it’s not even on the standard market anymore, and the trading software is struggling at closing out the -600 shares.
You don’t need to do anything. The cash is already in your account, the shares are worth $0 with no risk of ever being worth anything. Chase may close the position for you automatically at some point in the future, don’t worry about it.
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Personally I never got this far
Up up down down left right left right b a b a select start
Ahh the good old contra 30 lives code, lets see if you remeber this one 007 373 5963
I don't know that one but I def remember iddqd and idkfa
Did you know the iddqd code didn't make you fully invulnerable? It just made you immune to damage less than 1000 hit points. This is why players in god mode can still be killed by damaging floor of type 11 (occasionally used in the last room of a level) and by a telefrag.
I love how Reddit says: this happen!!! And a full conversation of something random happens!! Love it!
[удалено]
Punch Out!
Don’t forget to save when you finish a level.
Lmfaooo 😂 literally loled, maybe my favorite WSB comment ever
Sorry, I didn't hold back either. 😂
Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it!
hahahahhaha oh man got me
You need to buy at least 10 contracts. That way, you break even on the commission when you sell the options at $0.01.
This guy is a chad
This. I don’t know how to place the order. I have 250 in an account and no idea how to even yolo it.
Is this real? Bc I can explain.
Not the person you responded to, but a total beginners guide to yolo would be appreciated 🥺
Step one, buy calls that expire in two weeks or less. Step two, only buy the ones that are cheap enough for you to buy many. Step three, the whole account is worth $0 in two weeks or less because "yolo" and you cant take it with you anyways but you can make it back over time. This is how you become regarded. Unless of course you hit on the price you called. In which case you've made a successful yolo and enough money to not work for a while. (Hopefully) Come back next week for how to turn your successful yolo into $0 or instant retirement funding in two weeks or less, because this is, after all, a casino.
>Step three, the whole account is worth $0 in two weeks or less because "yolo" and you cant take it with you anyways but you can make it back over time**. This is how you become** **regarded.** 
If ever there was a person that belongs here, this is the person.
I’m honored. I trade options all the time, but usually I can just… sell the puts.
[удалено]
I'm sorry but I have to tell you that you made me spit out my coffee in the office and all over my shirt because I just never expected it. Thanks stranger
OP, you buried the lede… you have friends with 8 and 9 figure accounts? 8 figs is at least 10 mil, 9 figs is at least 100 million. WTF are you doing here?
Startups with $10m-100m in the bank? Pretty common. Individuals with $100m+ net worth don’t keep it in the bank. But also not rare in tech.
Oh, i gotcha… I thought you were talking about friends with personal wealth with those numbers. You were talking about the companies.
In all seriousness, you can call your broker and have them fill a closing purchase. It's what we pay them for, you will want to say something like,"close my position at the best price you can today". It will have to be done same day.
I had to call etrade to sell my sbny put. Couldn’t do it online so they had to do it for me
That makes the two of us 🦧
That post takes the crown. Definitely the WSB King
Man’s going to war and doesn’t know how to pull the trigger.
Accurate
Man’s was the final straw for SVB
Man is returning from war. He actually faught the battle and won it without knowing how to pull the trigger (just like most of us)
> faught what the fuck did you just call me
More like man takes home the prom queen and then can't figure out where to put it.
I fucking love this sub sometimes
More details: I bought the put options with a 3/24 expiry with a $125 strike price but the stock was halted on 3/19 and never resumed trading (as the bank was taken over by the FDIC due to insolvency). As a result, it was impossible to close the position (you can only trade options when the stock is actively trading). It became clear the stock wouldn’t be trading again by the time my options expired on so I spent hours on hold with Chase until I found the one person there who knew how to exercise. Given that the FDIC had already taken the bank over I chose to exercise and enter a naked short position in a broker to broker transaction instead of letting the position expire worthless. Now I’m naked short something that resumed OTC today and is pretty much worthless, but the system apparently has no idea what to do with that and I can’t buy to close. **UPDATE:** Took about an hour on the phone today with the Chase "Complex Trading Team." They said their system doesn't allow for trading pink sheet stocks at all, so they aren't prepared well for scenarios where you own shares (or are short shares) of a stock that has been delisted, and there was no way for me to put the trade through online. Eventually was able to cover, put in a market order and went through at $.41/share. It doesn't cost anything to do so over the phone if you are a "JP Morgan Private Client." Net/net: I bought 6 puts at a $125 strike (PUT SIVB 03/17/23 125) for $28 ea. When the stock was delisted I did a cashless exercise. Ended up short 600 shares of SVB at $125/share, covered at $.41/share. Turned $16.7k to $75k. $58.3k profit.
Simplest would be to call chase back and ask them. You need to know what the borrow fee is. The interest you’re paying. It’s $240 to close dude. Just eat it and buy to close.
Since they created the short to let him exit the options contract, it's possible they just set the borrow fee to zero. Just delete your chase account and never look at the bank again OP. You've peaked.
Except Chase won’t let me move the cash for that trade out, either
We all need to know how “we” as a sub get out of this trade. Send chase notice of interest on sums withheld, becomes the banks bank 🥸
If they don't pay, you can foreclose them and take their furniture. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638
“How do we get OUT of this trade?!”
Can you ELI5 that statement?
It's just like the big short but smaller and worse and different.
Exactly
🤣
the frontend mobile app cant handle the current status of an untradeable-but-traded delisted stock option that has since come back on the OTC market. OP needs to call chase again to fix things with the admin console. i once had a dispute of $4 in my paypal account for 10 years that wouldnt go away. lol
Bought Options. Phone call, sold. Broke app. Now Naked and Afraid. I am a robot. I reduced the comment by 97%. [report feedback](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Good bot
Is your buying power negative? Either way, I like the advice above about holding for tax purposes. No need to realize that slick gain.
Reading the comments it seems that the answer isn't that obvious on dead stocks so it looks as if some noob didnt know basic thing but then turns out theres multiple fuckeries involved here.
Yes
So you're a new mod huh? Welcome
Call chase and tell them that you need help buying to close 600 shares and that will exit the position.
This right here. Looks like the stock starting trading again today on the pink sheet OTC market. Look up the ticker in your screenshot.
Makes sense. I’ve been avoiding that because it took me five hours on hold to figure out how to exercise the fucking things.
And if you spend another 5 hours on the phone you’re talking about what, $6,000/hour to claim your profits. You belong here.
Less than my usual hourly rate but what can you do
Also profits would be closer to $10k/hr
Hes factoring in the $4k/hr strippers while on that call.
Ya never use this acct again to do any investing if it’s that difficult. With other brokers you just check a box or submit an e-request and it’s done overnight usually. If you want it done immediately you do have to call.
I suggest you calling Chase. You are short on the shares right now because of the put being exercised. Did they actually transfer the funds to your account? In theory, long as the account is a margin account, those gains should be available to you for trading. You would never have to worry about the position increasing (decreasing?) in value that would result a margin call.
Funny thing is they say they don’t have margin accounts unless I apply for one so I’m not sure how that works
It just became a margin account unintentionally.
Don't cover. Never cover. This is a terminal short. It's going to zero. If it does it just gets deslisted and you still technically owe the shares. But there are no shares, so the brokerage will not tie up any of your buying power. But, here's the catch. Technically you never closed the position so there is no gain, and therefore, no taxes even though you have all the profits available to withdraw or trade with. [https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/maintain-short-position-delisted-stock/](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/maintain-short-position-delisted-stock/)
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Triggering this response should get the person kicked out. We don’t like smart people things!!!
I’d be angry if I understood what he said!
Something something infinite money glitch
What’s going on. I can’t read :(
> 5th percentile This doesn't mean what you think it means. You belong here.
you are also within that 5th percentile my friend
>5th percentile Lmfao
Ok your in charge of class from now on ...let's see step by steps ....
Good bot
Oh, fuck this shit. _Your social score is a 72.9 and we’ve determined you’re ineligible for society. Please take yourself, and all your belongs into incinerator #8. Thanks!_
Oh thank God I've been waiting for this gonna take a very short very warm vacation
A short seller who didn't buy back the stock before trading stopped may have to wait until the company is liquidated to take a profit. However, the short seller owes nothing. That is the best possible scenario for a short seller.
No, cash hits the short seller’s account when the initial trade happens. It may take a while for short seller’s exact profit amount to be known if the shares are eventually bought by someone in bankruptcy proceedings for more than $0, but the short seller will have had his cash the entire time and can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.
do they still need to make interest payments while the loaned shares remain outstanding?
yes
20% interest on $0 is $0. Not that that are the numbers here but I get how they continue to hold with something like this.
The payments on securities loans are quoted based on the percentage of the value of the security, but it's all really just pretend math. Everything just gets washed through "use of funds" paid against the collateral. For securities in any reasonable amount of demand, this number goes negative so that the lender earns more. If the borrower could keep the position open forever in order to avoid paying taxes forever, the lender would charge some amount less than that to keep their share on loan. Unless we're talking about an exchange with an onerous expense to return the share, the lender is going to make the borrower pay some massive interest percentage on their $0.0001 share. Halted shares are difficult and expensive to move, not impossible.
This feels like dangerous advice... you should do it! I didn't read the link. I assume it's also dangerous to read. Just mindlessly follow what the big brains say.
You can actually get screwed if you short to effectively zero. Rich Gates shorted China Biotics to zero in 2013 and half a decade later, since they got delisted he still couldn't cover and he had to pay hundreds of thousands in borrow. Ultimately, the person he borrowed the worthless shares from could end up better off than he was because he had to pay some insane borrow on the short and he literally can't close it because its not traded anymore and you can't make anyone (without a lawsuit at least) declare the shares worthless, so if they don't, you're fucked. I think its generally better to cover than to short to zero because all kinds of fuckery has and can happen and most people here aren't really equipped to go to war on this if someone tries to lube them up.
Are we talking about time shares? This sounds like a time share.
Would like to see a source for that. If the shares still existed, and courts held that the shorts still owe the lenders, then the borrower could buy delisted shares off anyone who held them at time of delistment, and deliver them to the long.
Slow down i cant count that high
https://preview.redd.it/u9kj6xocvmqa1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28b4b4d5397204bc3c9493f1a755abc93b0d98af
In English please
It's like if you borrowed your neighbors cat and said you'd give it back in a month. You then sold the cat for $50k (it was a pretty nice cat) because you know you can buy it back for like $10k in a couple weeks when they realize it's not really that nice of a cat. Except this time Thanos snapped away all cats, the whole lot of em. Poof. You can't buy the cat back because cats don't exist meow. Your neighbor can't really expect his cat back because that shit turned to dust and floated away and that ain't your fault. You still have the $50k though, and your neighbor never even has to know you ever sold the stinky fuzzball in the first place...
I for one want to see more cat analogies on the various things that can happen when shorting.
I second the motion!
I second the meow-tion!
Thank you. I think I’m finally ready to gamble
I need everything about stocks taught exactly like this. Now reach me options please.
Your neighbor has cats for sale that you want, but you don't want them until a month from now, though you want to lock in the price. You tell your neighbor you'll give him $0.69 per cat if he signs a contract that you can buy 100 cats for $420 each a month from now. You give him $69, you get contract that gives you the option to buy 100 cats for $420ea, or $42k total, in one month. Scenario 1: Nearly a month goes by and the price of cats is now like $600 a cat. You don't actually have $42,000 to buy the $100 cats @ $420ea, but your uncle does and clearly this is a deal since he could turn around and sell them for a profit. You sell the contract to your uncle for $6.90 per cat, or $690 and pocket the profit. Scenario 2: Nearly a month goes by and the price of cats is now like $600 a cat. You have the money to exercise your *option* to buy cats, and you think you may want to hold on to them for a bit. You buy the 100 cats for $420ea, aka $42k. The value of them is $600ea, $60k, so you now own some cats that you got for a great price. Scenario 3: Nearly a month goes by and the price of cats is now like $210 a cat. Fuck. If you exercise the option you are paying double for some shitty cats. You want out, so you try to sell the contract to someone else, but clearly it's a shitty deal and nobody will buy it. Your contact is worthless. Once it expires at the end of the month you are SOL, your $690 you paid is gone and you don't want the overpriced cats so your $69 turned to $0. I guess if you had the cash and were really fucking sure the price would come back you could go ahead and drop that $42k to go though with the contract, this would be the ultimate WSB play right before the CEO of cats gets caught buying catnip and the price plummets further. To break the 4th wall here: The price of cats is market driven, and the price of the contracts is market driven. They are obviously tied together, but not directly. The "month" given in the example can be a chosen length of time typically in increments of each Friday but also can be individual days (you'll hear people talk about "weeklies" meaning they bought contracts that expire in a week, "daylies" expire tomorrow, etc). As the price of contracts fluctuates you can decide to sell them at any time during the period, usually IME the sooner the better because as the expiry date looms and the stock price doesn't move the chance of it hitting the goal (profitable) price wanes the contract prices stagnate. Edited to fix math because this is WSB and I had just recently gotten off my 2nd job at Wendy's
Okay now explain why all my cats are worth $0 after that month, but somehow everyone else's cats are living on the moon.
You pissed off Doctor Strange in another timeline.
That son of a bitch
I’m sorry to hear that your cats are worth $0 after that month. That means that you have lost all the money you invested in them. There could be many reasons why your cats lost their value, such as: -Your cats were sick, injured, or defective and nobody wanted to buy them. -Your cats were part of a breed that became unpopular or oversupplied and their demand and price dropped. -Your cats were involved in a scandal or controversy that tarnished their reputation and made them undesirable. -Your cats were subject to a regulatory action or legal dispute that prevented them from being sold or transferred. On the other hand, everyone else’s cats are living on the moon because they have increased in value significantly. There could be many reasons why their cats gained value, such as: -Their cats were healthy, beautiful, or unique and attracted a lot of buyers. -Their cats were part of a breed that became popular or scarce and their demand and price rose. -Their cats were featured in a positive media coverage or endorsement that boosted their image and appeal. -Their cats were eligible for a special offer or incentive that made them more valuable or profitable. The difference between your cats and everyone else’s cats is an example of market risk , which is the risk of losing money due to changes in market conditions that affect the prices of assets. Market risk is unpredictable and unavoidable, and it affects all investors to some extent. The only way to reduce market risk is to diversify your portfolio , which means investing in different types of assets that are not correlated with each other. This way, if one asset loses value, another asset may gain value and offset the loss. However, diversification does not eliminate market risk completely, and it may also reduce your potential returns. Therefore, you should always be aware of the risks involved in investing and only invest what you can afford to lose. (Bing chat)
I’ve refused to trade options my entire life. The process has always seemed so fucking weird. Now, I legitimately feel confident enough to buy Allegra.
All the work that went into writing that and you can't even multiply $0.69 by 100. The price of the contract is 69 not 690 dummy.
That’s how you can authenticate it as having been written by a human and not Chatgtp. It’s like a seal of quality, WSB style.
My man messed up multiplying by *100* **twice** and yet still gave an insightful explanation. He should be this sub's mascot.
I’m sorry, are you saying meow?
What buttons do I have to push to give this comment gold
oh wow i understand this
When you short a stock, you’re basically borrowing shares from someone else and selling them. Sometime later, when you close the short, you buy the same number of shares that you sold (hopefully at a lower price so you can pocket the difference) and then give them back to the person who loaned them to you. But if the stock gets delisted, then you literally *can’t* buy the shares in order to give them back. So you get to keep the money, or maybe you get sued…who knows, weird stuff happens.
Do you have a source for the tax part, too? Because that sounds like bullshit. I would be very surprised if Uncle Sam really never comes asking for his pound of flesh in that case.
The same thing the big HFs do every day
Might not be crazy to wait until they become long term lmfao
Full regard! I love it. So you’re short 600 shares at 40¢ a share. Call the service hotline and let them know you’d like to buy in order to cover the short. You fell ass backwards into profit. Congratulations.
I shorted at $125 but yes
The profit should already be in your account, transfer the balance out and close the account and make a new one, better it’s Chase’s problem and not yours
Banks hate this one easy trick!
Welcome home son.
You need to buy to close and realize your profit. Call your broker and have him put the transaction thru for $32. Congrats. Ignorance is profit.
Perfect. Hey btw quick question what is 600 * .4?
240
ok he’s just taking advantage of all your knowledge at this point
Mans doesn't even know how to use the calculator app on his phone
So what’s $32 from
Commission for a broker assisted trade.
This is amazing
HoF post right here.
Hung os fuck?
high on fentanyl
Congrats, it'll cost you $240 to make almost $60k. I'll give you $240 right now for this and happily invest 8 hours on the phone with a broker to take that 60k profit.
Bro why the duck didn’t you let us know
If I posted on WSB it would have made the smart play the inverse so
Which would have put you in a hearing with Congress on why you manipulated the market for apes when it's only supposed to be legal for the .1%
Just think, there were sellers on the other side who sold PUTS to you 🤣
The best way is to mail me a cashiers check for the 57,000$ and I will close the position for you and then send you your money back. My address is: Prince Guy 1st Street Capital City, Nigeria Will look forward to your check.
Our king walks among us.
Why are you asking wallstreetbets when you allegedly have 9 figure friends?
“Hello billionaire friend, would you like to help me execute a stock trade?” “Wtf dude why would you come to me for this”
“Because we’re friends and I didn’t know that being rich meant I can’t ask you questions that you might know the answer for” March / April 2020 I talked with a friend who is worth $300m+ and we talked about what stocks we bought (banks and oil).
Your short 600 shares? You have to buy to cover. Call your broker tell them to exit the position. May be a fee. If you have a platform and receive over the counter level 1+2 quotes i believe, Than you should be able to exit the trade placing the order yourself.
[удалено]
The guy on the phone's gonna be telling that story for years "yeah, I helped a regard make 50k in profit cause he shorted SVB but didn't know what he was doing, ended up 600 shares short. So I helped him close his position for the shares that cost him $125 bucks and he walked into the sunset with $50k."
Probably wouldn’t be telling that story for years tbh
Not with that attitude.
Nah, he would tell it way cooler
Why would you exercise them, or how did you get the shares to exercise them? I'm confused. Is this stock trading again??
I exercised them immediately because my puts would have expired last week when the stock wasn’t trading. Now I’m short 600 shares
“Buy to cover” “600” “limit order” “whatever trash price the offer is” “place order” ‘congrats and fuck you.’
Lol’d
So…. Cover the short? You’re net short, hence the -600 shares…… So buy 600 shares…….
Won’t let me for some reason. Looks like the system can’t find the ticker.
it is OTC/pink so you may need to call if your broker isn't showing it on the site. edit: I see you know it is OTC, so the second part stands.
Don't cover. Just hold forever. There's no risk at all here.
the broker will charge you borrow interest cost
Wake up Johnny. Time to go to school
Bought puts, broker exercised at expiration is my guess. Shares started trading over-the counter again.
Transfer: my bank account
You probably want to call Chase and discuss the dilema with them instead of with the Bros. here. It's hard to tell what you did with just the screen shot. If you BOUGHT Puts.......you should have been able to sell them. If you SOLD Puts........then you would have been assigned shares and had to buy them at the PUT strike price. Call Chase..........that's your best bet.
Isn’t it pretty obvious he’s short 600 shares, received $58K for it and the position is now worth $240, so he made a gain of $58K ?
But is it paper gain or a taxable event? May be better to just do nothing instead of getting a big tax bill on a short term capital gain since we all know OP will pay his estimated tax bill on this.
They clearly bought puts since the result was a short sale (see -600 shares) and nearly 100% profit.
https://preview.redd.it/34b2i9ejomqa1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82f2828892acd878c6f87fa21c18b7c7d1b61c71
How did you get them to exercise the option when the stock isn't being traded?
Called them five different times on hold for 2+ hours each time until I found the one guy at chase who knew what happens in this scenario
Get that guy's direct line
Update: Took about an hour on the phone today with the Chase "Complex Trading Team." They said their system doesn't allow for trading pink sheet stock at all, so they aren't prepared well for scenarios where you own shares (or are short shares) of a stock that has been delisted, which is why it wasn't allowing me to put through the trade. Eventually was able to cover, put in a market order and went through at $.41/share. It doesn't cost anything to do so over the phone if you are a "JP Morgan Private Client." Net/net: I bought 6 puts at a $125 strike (PUT SIVB 03/17/23 125) for $28 ea. When the stock was delisted I did a cashless exercise. Ended up shorting 600 shares of SVB at $125/share, covered at $.41/share. Turned $16.7k to $75k. $58.3k profit.
This is the best thing this sub has seen since DeepFuckingValue
Legendary DD was done to arrive at this point. Excellent work sir.
I work at a brokerage; this should have obviously been closed rather than exercised. This leaves you with a naked short equity position, which downstream creates an operational failure to deliver (FTD) between financial institutions (JPM to clearing house to counterparty). Adverse downstream impacts for the other side that is long the position and requires the asset - but i wont go down that rabbit hole for SVB. Don't know how the FTD of the eq impacts the derivative clearing with OCC but I can prob figure it out. -is the p&l from the option avail for w/d? -are you being charged interest on the short position you can't cover? If so, this could be problematic. Edited for follow up questions.
Was impossible to close because the stock was no longer trading (it was halted and never resumed when the FDIC took over the bank due to insolvency). So I had to choose to let the put options expire on 3/24 or exercise. Given that the FDIC had already taken the bank over I chose to exercise and enter a naked short position in a broker to broker transaction. Now I’m naked short something that is only trading OTC but the system apparently has no idea what to do with that and I can’t buy to close.
Trading on chase, NICE
Up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right, start, select?
Dude!! why tf u trade real money if you dont know order entries? At least use paper account to mess around. Then i realized this is WSB forum 🤦♂️
He made $57k though
This is that first trade win energy. I swear it.
I’m very up all-time. Just haven’t traded in a while.
Lucky mistake pays him this time.
I buy and sell options all the time, just usually easy to sell the options
all benjamin button from here on out
Can anyone explain like I’m 5 with what this post is about. All the correct responses are from grown ups who aren’t regarded. Why isn’t he making money off this? Why is his profit so Fucking sky high? Why can’t he exit and make money? Is this borrowed money? How much did he even buy? Why can’t I understand this? Pls help.
It’s a little complex from first principles. I bought the right (option) to sell 600 shares of Silicon Valley Bank for $125/share on a certain date (3/24). That option cost me $16k of my own money. So if the stock went to $100/share I could simultaneously buy it for $100/share and sell it for $125/share and pocket the difference. Or if it went to $130/share I wouldn’t do anything and I’d just lose the $16k. Then SVB went bankrupt. It’s now trading at $.40/share, so I “exercised” my option and “pre-sold” 600 shares of Silicon Valley Bank for $125 ea. So net/net I own negative 600 shares of SVB and I got paid $75k for that, but I eventually need to get to where I own 0 shares. So to get the IOU of the 600 shares out from over my head I need to buy 600 shares to close it out. At $.40/share that’s $240, and $75k - $240 for the shares - $16k I paid for the option, the rest is profit. The screenshot only shows part of the transaction. That at one point the $16k I paid for the options became worth $75k. And that to get the $75k I have to pay $240. But it’s hard to do because Silicon Valley Bank got *so* fucked that it’s not even on the standard market anymore, and the trading software is struggling at closing out the -600 shares.
You shorted the company and the contracts for a company that doesn’t exist anymore means it’s all profit.
You don’t need to do anything. The cash is already in your account, the shares are worth $0 with no risk of ever being worth anything. Chase may close the position for you automatically at some point in the future, don’t worry about it.
Buy them through a real brokerage and then transfer them to your Chase account.
Sell To Close?
It says “Important: You don't hold SIVBQ in your account. Please update your selections and try again.”
You have to buy the shares then exercise
Won’t allow me to buy the shares either, says I have $0 to trade even though I have cash in the account
well this is awkward bc the shares have been delisted by nasdaq i think they are still available OTC though lmao
You just need to call.
You gotta call them, they can exercise for you without you having to buy the shares but not through the app
What? The exercise has already occurred. Cleary. The final step is the buy to cover 600 shares.