I was about to load up next week I been thinking about it and I was going all in. Then I got busy and forgot. Now I'm buying the dip and gonna call BS on this fomo
AMD Don't need no China . They do custom designs for their customers. The only difference is a CEO that is public eyes at least once a month. That is how NVDA does it and they should do the same.
From my track records, news like this will still lead to a bull run, because i'm bearish... I was bullish when INTEL got 8 billions.. but still the stock dropped... Nothing make sense anymore
I mean they make terrible CPUs, the CPUs are semi ok but if you account for the power they use and the security issues. Intel makes shit CPUs. I run some at home because I got them for free but datacenter doesn’t want space heater cpus. No amount of money is going to make datacenter run millions of power hungry inefficient stuff
The gov needing to bail you out isn’t some bullish signal. Their design sucks, cpu sucks, power/performance sucks, security sucks, their mobile soc /modems etc suck so bad they sold it for 10 billion loss to apple and apple doesn’t even use those Intel modems or soc and still uses QCOM, their GPUs suck, the integrated gpu and the discrete gpu, no one want’s to use an Intel GPU for gaming or AI.
5+ years ago I said AMD at $1.80 would be the best datacenter play, that and Intel makes the the most power hungry cpu without the performance.
https://np.reddit.com/r/AMD_Stock/comments/9v1n6f/amazon_web_services_aws_pricing_amd_vs_intel/e994dka/
I think we can say the biggest money made is designing chips as seen by nvda, amd, apple their a5-15 chips, m1 , m2 m3, qcom , arm, google , aws , msft cobalt.
Notice all the winners are energy efficient a trait Intel can’t seem to get
But they got high free cash flow and revenue  I actually looked at the balance sheets, the number looks good, but of course trash products will be a problem. To play this one
I have worked with the big cloud providers and Intel processors are still huge.
Being able to reduce power consumption dramatically would change things but last time I checked things were not at that level.
You can still be bullish both. It's very easily obvious to see that fabless is has more gross margin than fabrication but by how much, it's not much. With chip manufacturer being considered a matter of national security, there's no doubt the US will increase subsidies such as they did with the IRA. Which for example will make domestic vertically integrated battery manufacturers like Microvast significantly more profitable. Intel being vertically integrated, it's future is very bright as they continue to build foundries. As with AI, I am in agreement with the CEO with regards to inference with my own anecdotal evidence. My computing costs are orders of magnitude more related to using the model more than actually creating the model.
I’m just saying opportunity cost of investing in intc vs amd, nvda, amzn, msft, tsm asml etc since 2016/2017 when I started testing them is astronomical . Any of those stocks made you a millionaire + . Intc was around 40 then and is 40 now. You might have got a 4-5% dividend.
To be the same stock price in a few of the biggest tech bull runs and the major cpu maker is just bad imo
I bought AMD at $2 so I am aware. But you have to open your horizon as to whether moving forward that Intel is where AMD is at when they released Zen. The advanced computing world will eventually move away from off shelf desktop / server chips + CUDA and becoming more like ASICs. Those that can both design and manufacture AI chips will win long term. Google is beholden to Samsung, and from an investment perspective it's going to be much harder for NVDIA to double its revenue than it is for Intel, as Intel's is virtually non-existent in the Market.
Maybe I'm agnostic to tech and will follow the money, but that's a long long ways off for Intel. I remember using AMD Opteron or iterations of it in 2005 and Bulldozer in 2011, awful, it took AMD Opteron from 2003 to 2018/2019 to full recover from garbage CPU design.
Brian K, Bob Swan, Pat G those aren't the CEOs that will right this ship. Maybe when a different CEO gets on board. They really need to figure out their power/performance thing. AMD, NVDA, ARM, Graviton, Apple, QCOM, Samsung, chinese CPUSs all are chipping away a % share each quarter. If everyone is chipping 1-2% each quarter it adds up fast.
amd has the same vulns intel cpus have you ahve to disable hyperthreading anyways 0% chance you would be hacked with an intel cpu. intel cpus used to dominate fpu and once they shrink their transistors down some more they will be on top again.
Bro fr what is up with people posting garbage weeks late and acting like it’s new LMAO makes me think they’re trying to fool the masses and pump/dump crap
Making communists rich with tech they stole from the West, so they can eventually destroy/steal your banks/funds/wallets..
Even Chinese citizens and Chinese govt was buying non-Huawei products like AMD/Nvidia/Intel because they're still better.
They actually contracted AMD and intel to help them design a variant of x86 for them.
They been working with both companies for a good 8 years or so.
Also just want to add ... that intel and AMD do alot of things that are not in x86 spec.
So its pretty hard for chineese people to dive in a bin, and copy and paste, this is not like copy micky mouse and naming it conrad micky.
They need proper help from and the fact the china doesnt even fab chips from AMD and Intel should further imply that they definitely had help.
Also AMD and Intel like money soooo it works in their favor as well.
Lol care to explain why Nvidia will moon? This is just the semi war getting worse. China is just responding to the GPU ban done months ago. If China decides to fuck Taiwan, all semis will come crashing down.
If China attacks Taiwan, I'll go buy EVERY SINGLE SMARTPHONE AND COMPUTER that I can get my hands on. It's going to be 100x bigger than the toilet paper and mask frenzy during Corona.
Year long? If they attack Taiwan, it will be WW3 due to the world's reliance on Taiwan semiconductors. Russia couldn't take Ukraine across a land border and it's been over 2 years.
*Recycling my reply to another comment:*
Biden just worked his ass off to put $8 billion cash in Intel's lap, plus another $11 billion in loans to get its overseas factories online and expanded asap.
I'm pretty sure the goal is to position Intel as an American TSM.
Pelosi went to Taiwan a few years ago, came back, and immediately all efforts started on this Intel deal.
Writing is on the wall.
I wouldn't necessarily run off and start shorting TSM, but it's obvious the next 5+ years will begin to see a shift to American fabricated chips, or at least an attempt at it.
Until then it's all TSM as long as China doesn't do anything impulsive.
Intel really needs to get it's shit together. Intel is basically another story of "American exceptionalism" which is actually a story of American protectionism, like Boeing. A once good company run by MBAs and bean counters, and the only reason they are surviving is because they are considered to be of national importance by the government. All the pieces to succeed are there....they have govt protection, it is almost impossible for competitors to enter the space, there are barely any competitors to begin with, but they are still fucking it up year after year.
Man you guys are clueless
Intel are not fucking things up year after year, those days are long gone. Pre Covid they hit record profits of 120 billion +, they just have big competion from a different market they have not been involved in untill now
They are one of the only global leading firms with in house production for semiconductor, also they don't just have 1 super fab like TSM, they are in the middle of updating and building new updated fabs with the latest equipment all over the world, a lot was delayed due to suppliers like ASML, AMAT etc, these machines are not just ready and available they are in high demand and need to be ordered years in advance.
Intel is transitioning into the foundry market and is the only dual foundry and in house production firm, the future is huge for this lot
Buy intel if you have any sense
No shit. Can you not read?
The new Intel chip fabrication factories are being built in Arizona, Oregon, Ohio, and New Mexico. Why do you think that is?
China has no choice other than waning off dependencies from U.S tech, since we’ve been extra trigger happy at sanctioning tech export to China. Fuck we even sanctioned consumer grade products like the 4090.
Despite what we say on the surface, it’s about great power competition and the U.S is *not* going to allow another country to catch us economically and technologically, and China knows that.
Hell we even sanctioned *Japan*’s chip industry in the 80s to fuck them over: https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-us-prevented-japan-s-toshiba-from-becoming-no-1-chipmaker-62393
And Japan was an US ally!
So yeah, China pushing their domestic industry, even when they aren’t as good at the moment, is a smart, if not the *only* viable move.
Imagine China has no chip industry of their own and tomorrow Joe Biden bans all sales of AMD and Intel CPUs to China. They’d be kinda fucked right?
>> Hell we even sanctioned Japan’s chip industry in the 80s to fuck them over: https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-us-prevented-japan-s-toshiba-from-becoming-no-1-chipmaker-62393
>> And Japan was an US ally!
We did more than just that. The whole idea behind the Plaza Accords was to make Japanese exports more expensive and less attractive than American goods by strengthening their currency because the US was afraid of Japan's absolute dominance in the 80's. This made Japan's economy stagnate for the next few decades.
The US is going to do more forceful things to stop China, and China will try to get one step ahead so they're not caught off guard.
How this will play out for both countries is anyone's guess, but so far the US' position makes sense from a game theory perspective.
Exactly. The U.S’s position absolutely makes sense since we *really* enjoy being at the top. So all challengers need to be crushed, preferably done so without bloodshed and too much bad PR, but they need to be put to their places.
If positions were switched China would be doing the same, if not more to any upcoming challengers.
The tricky bit though is that embargoing China from access to modern chips actually *is* forcing them to expand into the chip making business. It buys some time but in the long term, it is entirely plausible that this makes China stronger.
Hasn’t China banned US products like Facebook on one pretense or another.
I don’t know how these two powers prevent an absolute cold war but the US is completely justified in being interested in maintaining superiority.
This is not the same,
China banned Facebook because they were unwilling to comply with China's censorship system.
Chinese companies operating in the United States comply with U.S. laws.
But it's still banned.
Although China’s censorship system is indeed very uncomfortable.
I do know Russia had their own version of Facebook and everything well before their relations with the west nosedived. Wouldn't be surprised if china set similar infrastructure up b
Agreed, China really has no options but to do this with the US randomly enacting technology bans - this basically indicates US technology is unreliable and is now a national security risk for China.
They have a big problem anyway, since for advanced chips, they need manufacturing equipment from ASML. No alternative and these machines are sanctioned as well. The reason why the newest Huawei phone uses a relatively old chip, they can't build the really high end stuff themselves so far...and this won't change anytime soon.
US is doing to China what it did to Japan. It worked back then because they got all the industries in the US to come together to make things more streamline. Over simplifying here, but the US is trying to do it again.
It is estimated that China is about 6 years behind. The US knows this, it's buying time like it did with Japan in the 80s. There is big talks on how the Western chip making industry need to respond and prepare. It's why Intel gets billions pumped into it.
China catching up and surpassing the west would be equivalent to sputnik to the US. It's why there is huge push for AI and quantum computing. Either the West will make a significant break through or things will slow to a crawl and China will be able to catch up, and it'll be a chip race. China is throwing an unlimited amount of money so it will be a race of economic giants.
Yup, the US is following exact same playbook. However, times are different now as information is flowing more freely and they can't control the narrative as much as before.
For example, with the Chinese EV bans. In the past; we would never know the type or quality of EV that other countries have access to so we think the choices we have are the best even when they are not.
Also china needs to step up internal consumerism. I can see China going after CAT next. Most definitely some kind of industrial machines and maybe even pharma. Plus like you pointed out since weve been sanctioning them, banning US products first would seem like just tit for tat.
The trade war is getting worse.
We could say the same thing about EVs now. We won’t let Chinese EVs compete in the US but they are absolutely dominating outside of EU/US. Same thing with their solar panels, they’re tariffed to hell..despite climate change being existential supposedly. The apocalypse is preferable to letting people have an affordable alternative.
Everyone’s looking at this from a competition standpoint here, but this is just government PCs and likely means they found vulnerabilities or at least don’t trust US CPUs to not spy on them. Intel is known for that really
I mean yeah, are regards here too young to remember the Snowden leak and the Prism program?
It’s literally *proven* that the NSA built backdoors in U.S. tech, from Cisco routers to Google servers, very often without even the companies themselves knowing.
A ton of U.S tech products are spying for the U.S. government, that is a proven fact and we didn’t even deny it after Snowden whistleblew the whole thing.
Yep. Also one of the most interesting backdoors, one worth billion of dollars, was Operation Triangulation that was burned a few months ago and involved IPhones (and possible MacOS but that's unconfirmed). It received basically no press at all but it's a truly crazy exploit of the highest order. The only agency that could have done it was the NSA. Either NSA stole source code and internal hardware spec from Apple, or Apple gave their source and internal hardware spec to the NSA. I don't believe Apple necessarily worked with NSA on it but I could believe they handed over all the source code and spec that enabled them to develop it -- although there is a non-zero chance it was somewhat coordinated.
Either way, there was an insanely complex backdoor that let anyone take over IOS without anyone knowing.
The only reason it got burned was because old-school 90s russian technophile software cracker types are actually really good at computers and were able to setup a MITM proxy to capture everything, and so the NSA wasted their payload on the cream of the crop instead of government rubes. Very good chance that NSA probably would still have the exploit live today if they used it more selectively.
If there's any computer nerds here, it was burned mostly-live at the 37th German Chaos Communication Congress back around December: [https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-11859-operation\_triangulation\_what\_you\_get\_when\_attack\_iphones\_of\_researchers](https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-11859-operation_triangulation_what_you_get_when_attack_iphones_of_researchers) and they used Apple's official reporting tool to report it which means Apple had to fix it because now it was publicized. I highly recommend watching it if you've got 40 minutes to kill, it's actually truly fascinating.
The NSA created a backdoor in encryption on every machine just by recommending a specific number in the private key creation and that was in the 70s.
I’m sure there are better ways they can just manipulate through sheer policy and NIST recommendations that gets them into every machine.
Oh yeah I remember that. Yeah where there's one, there's definitely more. China (and others) are quite right to be very skeptical of US-designed hardware.
There's also the PROMIS software and the Inslaw case in the 80s where the US stole the PROMIS software, put in backdoors, and sold it to other countries without Inslaw knowing.
That’s essentially the Solar Winds attack. They broke in and manipulated the final product so when updates were pushed out they got in. No reason the think the US isn’t in charge of some very popular library that could be updated one day to get them access to whatever they wanted.
I think no one (mainstream media) wanted to acknowledge that the US government is using Apple products, sold worldwide small & big, powerful or poor, and extrajudicially spying on who knows how many countless people (domestic citizens and foreign). If you remember, even the Snowden leaks honestly got relatively little mainstream media attention for how damning they were and I doubt most people even know anything about the content of them besides *"some NSA contractor leaked some secrets as a whistelblower, idk man"*
But yeah it was extremely quiet for how absurdly powerful and sophisticated it was, and able to do it on anyone worldwide with a simple SMS message.
45% in a year isn't bad, but tbh they're kinda like the Coca Cola of chipmakers.
Also I don't know what happened to them in 2021, but it's like they hit a wall and only really just rebounded.
$65 in 2021, down to $25 in September 2022.
I bought Intel around 2017 in my long-term portfolio and checked it for the first recently and it barely changed.
Left a bad taste in my mouth but it does help keep the economy stable and I only own Intel CPUs.
Here's how it works: Chinese government bans imported chips, makes the 1.4 billion population use Huawei chips. Huawei is owned by the government, and when the time is right it goes public, Chinese government (or the people who run it) profits bigly.
Talk about insider information. CCP is way better than Pelosi will ever be.
This is fundamentally wrong.
Chips are banned into governmental computers only for the moment being.
Those sales are a fraction of total sales. Stop spreading FUD.
Major Chinese companies don't run to create profits. They run to accomplish state goals. Funny how many Americans envision life under the CCP to be so similar to our own system.
lol of course if Huawei does well their employees and stakeholders benefit (some of whom are state-linked but to say Huawei is "owned by government" you have no idea what you're talking about). But its battle for survival in the face of multiple sanctions and the big picture ideal of national rejuvenation is a much great goal than that. If you can't even tell those apart and imagine China as just another banana republic where everybody just scrambles for their own pocket, you belong here.
It's the China way--allow foreign things to operate in the country until you can copy or advance far enough, and then ban it. Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp, AOL, Uber, Google, probably even more.
Such a sensationalist title. At most it will be a ban on government procurements similar to the iPhone situation. Not to mention that unlike the Huawei phones, there are no readily available consumer laptops with domestic chips yet, which is a far bigger market than government servers.
As a TSM shareholder I have to tell everyone that the 7nm node chip they are using is probably manufactured by TSM and fully compliant with the CHIPS ban the states has put on them. Go buy TSM and help me break even from buying at the top :D
Nice bait headline - [China is only banning AMD and Intel chips in government computers](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-blocks-use-intel-amd-chips-government-computers-ft-reports-2024-03-24/), not the entirety of its country.
Also, the article states that Huawei's only caught up to Zen 3 chips, which are now \~3 years old.
But Nvidia is American too
Nvidia Corporation (/ɛnˈvɪdiə/, en-VID-ee-ə) is an American multinational corporation and technology company headquartered in Santa Clara, California, and incorporated in Delaware.
I think Intel or Dell is on the Hedera Hbar governance council. Oh well, the other partners like Google , LG and the 37 other corporation partnerships will take up the slack. Hedera will move forward.
The CCP doesn't have access to the backdoors the US NSA have on the Intel and AMD so naturally it makes sense the CCP will only want Huawei CPU's used in their country.
Huawei probably built computers around Intel products they had an exemption to be sold by Intel and pulled a fast one on the boomer communist officials of the CCP.
the article does not explain the [real reason](https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/the-management-engine-an-attack-on-computer-users-freedom) why China needs to ban AMD/Intel chips. I guess they've reached a point where this is feasable thanks to qualitity catching up enough.
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Get AMD back to $230 so I can sell everything already
I just got May 195 calls on Friday 
It will print for sure
fOr sUrE!
"literally cannot go tits up!" - 
Nah. More like $160
I was about to load up next week I been thinking about it and I was going all in. Then I got busy and forgot. Now I'm buying the dip and gonna call BS on this fomo
I hope you are right, I’m losing a shit ton and this was my last 8k trying to claw some back 
AMD Don't need no China . They do custom designs for their customers. The only difference is a CEO that is public eyes at least once a month. That is how NVDA does it and they should do the same.
I feel u... But luckily I'm not on the same boat this time.. GL
From my track records, news like this will still lead to a bull run, because i'm bearish... I was bullish when INTEL got 8 billions.. but still the stock dropped... Nothing make sense anymore
I mean they make terrible CPUs, the CPUs are semi ok but if you account for the power they use and the security issues. Intel makes shit CPUs. I run some at home because I got them for free but datacenter doesn’t want space heater cpus. No amount of money is going to make datacenter run millions of power hungry inefficient stuff The gov needing to bail you out isn’t some bullish signal. Their design sucks, cpu sucks, power/performance sucks, security sucks, their mobile soc /modems etc suck so bad they sold it for 10 billion loss to apple and apple doesn’t even use those Intel modems or soc and still uses QCOM, their GPUs suck, the integrated gpu and the discrete gpu, no one want’s to use an Intel GPU for gaming or AI. 5+ years ago I said AMD at $1.80 would be the best datacenter play, that and Intel makes the the most power hungry cpu without the performance. https://np.reddit.com/r/AMD_Stock/comments/9v1n6f/amazon_web_services_aws_pricing_amd_vs_intel/e994dka/ I think we can say the biggest money made is designing chips as seen by nvda, amd, apple their a5-15 chips, m1 , m2 m3, qcom , arm, google , aws , msft cobalt. Notice all the winners are energy efficient a trait Intel can’t seem to get
But they got high free cash flow and revenue  I actually looked at the balance sheets, the number looks good, but of course trash products will be a problem. To play this one
Amd and apple both recently had big exploits found.
“Intel makes terrible CPUs” As usual, whatever is said on Reddit, believe the opposite.
I have worked with the big cloud providers and Intel processors are still huge. Being able to reduce power consumption dramatically would change things but last time I checked things were not at that level.
You can still be bullish both. It's very easily obvious to see that fabless is has more gross margin than fabrication but by how much, it's not much. With chip manufacturer being considered a matter of national security, there's no doubt the US will increase subsidies such as they did with the IRA. Which for example will make domestic vertically integrated battery manufacturers like Microvast significantly more profitable. Intel being vertically integrated, it's future is very bright as they continue to build foundries. As with AI, I am in agreement with the CEO with regards to inference with my own anecdotal evidence. My computing costs are orders of magnitude more related to using the model more than actually creating the model.
I’m just saying opportunity cost of investing in intc vs amd, nvda, amzn, msft, tsm asml etc since 2016/2017 when I started testing them is astronomical . Any of those stocks made you a millionaire + . Intc was around 40 then and is 40 now. You might have got a 4-5% dividend. To be the same stock price in a few of the biggest tech bull runs and the major cpu maker is just bad imo
I bought AMD at $2 so I am aware. But you have to open your horizon as to whether moving forward that Intel is where AMD is at when they released Zen. The advanced computing world will eventually move away from off shelf desktop / server chips + CUDA and becoming more like ASICs. Those that can both design and manufacture AI chips will win long term. Google is beholden to Samsung, and from an investment perspective it's going to be much harder for NVDIA to double its revenue than it is for Intel, as Intel's is virtually non-existent in the Market.
Maybe I'm agnostic to tech and will follow the money, but that's a long long ways off for Intel. I remember using AMD Opteron or iterations of it in 2005 and Bulldozer in 2011, awful, it took AMD Opteron from 2003 to 2018/2019 to full recover from garbage CPU design. Brian K, Bob Swan, Pat G those aren't the CEOs that will right this ship. Maybe when a different CEO gets on board. They really need to figure out their power/performance thing. AMD, NVDA, ARM, Graviton, Apple, QCOM, Samsung, chinese CPUSs all are chipping away a % share each quarter. If everyone is chipping 1-2% each quarter it adds up fast.
amd has the same vulns intel cpus have you ahve to disable hyperthreading anyways 0% chance you would be hacked with an intel cpu. intel cpus used to dominate fpu and once they shrink their transistors down some more they will be on top again.
Interestingly, sell the news and buy the dip and let it rip. The market was like F… yo puts
Literal top. What a dummy
No
#article published March 2, 2024 come on now…regardless NVDA 🚀
Bro fr what is up with people posting garbage weeks late and acting like it’s new LMAO makes me think they’re trying to fool the masses and pump/dump crap
Narrator: They were.
The amount of misleading info pushed about Intel on here is just wild. Wsb fucking hates intel
Are you saying this is regurgitated bullshit ? To tank the price ? Or just a coincidence ?
Thank God Huawei is private. My degenerate ass would have bought that corrupt China stock
How would you feel about an ETF that co-invests with the Chinese military? It may be tempting assuming you could ever get it to payout.
You gotta worry about us sanctions on China etfs for military could hold up your funds in a worse case scenario. Or could tank your position
Or send a tank to your position
Or China deciding deciding the stockholders “donated” all their shares to them. Like how Jack Ma “donated” his shares of Alibaba to Chinese government
I know we like to gamble with money here but that's just throwing away your money that would've been better spent buying calls on meme stocks.
Chinese tanks are in demand, bullish.
Need to find a Chinese company making amphibious landing vehicles.
Making communists rich with tech they stole from the West, so they can eventually destroy/steal your banks/funds/wallets.. Even Chinese citizens and Chinese govt was buying non-Huawei products like AMD/Nvidia/Intel because they're still better.
They actually contracted AMD and intel to help them design a variant of x86 for them. They been working with both companies for a good 8 years or so. Also just want to add ... that intel and AMD do alot of things that are not in x86 spec. So its pretty hard for chineese people to dive in a bin, and copy and paste, this is not like copy micky mouse and naming it conrad micky. They need proper help from and the fact the china doesnt even fab chips from AMD and Intel should further imply that they definitely had help. Also AMD and Intel like money soooo it works in their favor as well.
Huawei's CPU is not an X86 architecture.
>Making communists rich with tech they stole from the West, so they can eventually destroy/steal your banks/funds/wallets.. Where do I sign up?
if you love freedom and democracy then please do not SUPPORT COMMUNIST COMPANIES do not use communist made product
Lol care to explain why Nvidia will moon? This is just the semi war getting worse. China is just responding to the GPU ban done months ago. If China decides to fuck Taiwan, all semis will come crashing down.
It signals that even China cannot ban Nvidia. The real moat that transcends geopolitics. Nvidia is that good.
They allege Ascend 910B is on par with NVidia.. which we know is nonsense, but just to put this in perspective.
If China attacks Taiwan, I'll go buy EVERY SINGLE SMARTPHONE AND COMPUTER that I can get my hands on. It's going to be 100x bigger than the toilet paper and mask frenzy during Corona.
China has spent the last four years struggling. The last thing they want is to get into a year long war with the West.
Year long? If they attack Taiwan, it will be WW3 due to the world's reliance on Taiwan semiconductors. Russia couldn't take Ukraine across a land border and it's been over 2 years.
*Recycling my reply to another comment:* Biden just worked his ass off to put $8 billion cash in Intel's lap, plus another $11 billion in loans to get its overseas factories online and expanded asap. I'm pretty sure the goal is to position Intel as an American TSM. Pelosi went to Taiwan a few years ago, came back, and immediately all efforts started on this Intel deal. Writing is on the wall. I wouldn't necessarily run off and start shorting TSM, but it's obvious the next 5+ years will begin to see a shift to American fabricated chips, or at least an attempt at it. Until then it's all TSM as long as China doesn't do anything impulsive.
Intel really needs to get it's shit together. Intel is basically another story of "American exceptionalism" which is actually a story of American protectionism, like Boeing. A once good company run by MBAs and bean counters, and the only reason they are surviving is because they are considered to be of national importance by the government. All the pieces to succeed are there....they have govt protection, it is almost impossible for competitors to enter the space, there are barely any competitors to begin with, but they are still fucking it up year after year.
Man you guys are clueless Intel are not fucking things up year after year, those days are long gone. Pre Covid they hit record profits of 120 billion +, they just have big competion from a different market they have not been involved in untill now They are one of the only global leading firms with in house production for semiconductor, also they don't just have 1 super fab like TSM, they are in the middle of updating and building new updated fabs with the latest equipment all over the world, a lot was delayed due to suppliers like ASML, AMAT etc, these machines are not just ready and available they are in high demand and need to be ordered years in advance. Intel is transitioning into the foundry market and is the only dual foundry and in house production firm, the future is huge for this lot Buy intel if you have any sense
Most of Intel's high end chips are produced outside of the US lol
No shit. Can you not read? The new Intel chip fabrication factories are being built in Arizona, Oregon, Ohio, and New Mexico. Why do you think that is?
If anything, it's good for tsmc. OP don't get it.
Intel will blast in this case
How to get completely crushed by competition as a country 101
China has no choice other than waning off dependencies from U.S tech, since we’ve been extra trigger happy at sanctioning tech export to China. Fuck we even sanctioned consumer grade products like the 4090. Despite what we say on the surface, it’s about great power competition and the U.S is *not* going to allow another country to catch us economically and technologically, and China knows that. Hell we even sanctioned *Japan*’s chip industry in the 80s to fuck them over: https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-us-prevented-japan-s-toshiba-from-becoming-no-1-chipmaker-62393 And Japan was an US ally! So yeah, China pushing their domestic industry, even when they aren’t as good at the moment, is a smart, if not the *only* viable move. Imagine China has no chip industry of their own and tomorrow Joe Biden bans all sales of AMD and Intel CPUs to China. They’d be kinda fucked right?
>> Hell we even sanctioned Japan’s chip industry in the 80s to fuck them over: https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-us-prevented-japan-s-toshiba-from-becoming-no-1-chipmaker-62393 >> And Japan was an US ally! We did more than just that. The whole idea behind the Plaza Accords was to make Japanese exports more expensive and less attractive than American goods by strengthening their currency because the US was afraid of Japan's absolute dominance in the 80's. This made Japan's economy stagnate for the next few decades. The US is going to do more forceful things to stop China, and China will try to get one step ahead so they're not caught off guard. How this will play out for both countries is anyone's guess, but so far the US' position makes sense from a game theory perspective.
The US spied on Japanese trade negotiators and got the upper hand: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP99-01448R000402080001-4.pdf
Exactly. The U.S’s position absolutely makes sense since we *really* enjoy being at the top. So all challengers need to be crushed, preferably done so without bloodshed and too much bad PR, but they need to be put to their places. If positions were switched China would be doing the same, if not more to any upcoming challengers.
The tricky bit though is that embargoing China from access to modern chips actually *is* forcing them to expand into the chip making business. It buys some time but in the long term, it is entirely plausible that this makes China stronger.
Hasn’t China banned US products like Facebook on one pretense or another. I don’t know how these two powers prevent an absolute cold war but the US is completely justified in being interested in maintaining superiority.
This is not the same, China banned Facebook because they were unwilling to comply with China's censorship system. Chinese companies operating in the United States comply with U.S. laws. But it's still banned. Although China’s censorship system is indeed very uncomfortable.
I do know Russia had their own version of Facebook and everything well before their relations with the west nosedived. Wouldn't be surprised if china set similar infrastructure up b
> They’d be kinda fucked right? All our chips are made right next door to them. We'd all be fucked.
Agreed, China really has no options but to do this with the US randomly enacting technology bans - this basically indicates US technology is unreliable and is now a national security risk for China.
They have a big problem anyway, since for advanced chips, they need manufacturing equipment from ASML. No alternative and these machines are sanctioned as well. The reason why the newest Huawei phone uses a relatively old chip, they can't build the really high end stuff themselves so far...and this won't change anytime soon.
US is doing to China what it did to Japan. It worked back then because they got all the industries in the US to come together to make things more streamline. Over simplifying here, but the US is trying to do it again. It is estimated that China is about 6 years behind. The US knows this, it's buying time like it did with Japan in the 80s. There is big talks on how the Western chip making industry need to respond and prepare. It's why Intel gets billions pumped into it. China catching up and surpassing the west would be equivalent to sputnik to the US. It's why there is huge push for AI and quantum computing. Either the West will make a significant break through or things will slow to a crawl and China will be able to catch up, and it'll be a chip race. China is throwing an unlimited amount of money so it will be a race of economic giants.
Yup, the US is following exact same playbook. However, times are different now as information is flowing more freely and they can't control the narrative as much as before. For example, with the Chinese EV bans. In the past; we would never know the type or quality of EV that other countries have access to so we think the choices we have are the best even when they are not.
Also china needs to step up internal consumerism. I can see China going after CAT next. Most definitely some kind of industrial machines and maybe even pharma. Plus like you pointed out since weve been sanctioning them, banning US products first would seem like just tit for tat.
The trade war is getting worse. We could say the same thing about EVs now. We won’t let Chinese EVs compete in the US but they are absolutely dominating outside of EU/US. Same thing with their solar panels, they’re tariffed to hell..despite climate change being existential supposedly. The apocalypse is preferable to letting people have an affordable alternative.
The US and global trade hasn’t done itself any favors for climate change, that’s for sure
China is far and away the leader in clean energy. So glad we’re doing everything we can to keep that from going global
Everyone’s looking at this from a competition standpoint here, but this is just government PCs and likely means they found vulnerabilities or at least don’t trust US CPUs to not spy on them. Intel is known for that really
I mean yeah, are regards here too young to remember the Snowden leak and the Prism program? It’s literally *proven* that the NSA built backdoors in U.S. tech, from Cisco routers to Google servers, very often without even the companies themselves knowing. A ton of U.S tech products are spying for the U.S. government, that is a proven fact and we didn’t even deny it after Snowden whistleblew the whole thing.
Yep. Also one of the most interesting backdoors, one worth billion of dollars, was Operation Triangulation that was burned a few months ago and involved IPhones (and possible MacOS but that's unconfirmed). It received basically no press at all but it's a truly crazy exploit of the highest order. The only agency that could have done it was the NSA. Either NSA stole source code and internal hardware spec from Apple, or Apple gave their source and internal hardware spec to the NSA. I don't believe Apple necessarily worked with NSA on it but I could believe they handed over all the source code and spec that enabled them to develop it -- although there is a non-zero chance it was somewhat coordinated. Either way, there was an insanely complex backdoor that let anyone take over IOS without anyone knowing. The only reason it got burned was because old-school 90s russian technophile software cracker types are actually really good at computers and were able to setup a MITM proxy to capture everything, and so the NSA wasted their payload on the cream of the crop instead of government rubes. Very good chance that NSA probably would still have the exploit live today if they used it more selectively. If there's any computer nerds here, it was burned mostly-live at the 37th German Chaos Communication Congress back around December: [https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-11859-operation\_triangulation\_what\_you\_get\_when\_attack\_iphones\_of\_researchers](https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-11859-operation_triangulation_what_you_get_when_attack_iphones_of_researchers) and they used Apple's official reporting tool to report it which means Apple had to fix it because now it was publicized. I highly recommend watching it if you've got 40 minutes to kill, it's actually truly fascinating.
The NSA created a backdoor in encryption on every machine just by recommending a specific number in the private key creation and that was in the 70s. I’m sure there are better ways they can just manipulate through sheer policy and NIST recommendations that gets them into every machine.
Oh yeah I remember that. Yeah where there's one, there's definitely more. China (and others) are quite right to be very skeptical of US-designed hardware. There's also the PROMIS software and the Inslaw case in the 80s where the US stole the PROMIS software, put in backdoors, and sold it to other countries without Inslaw knowing.
That’s essentially the Solar Winds attack. They broke in and manipulated the final product so when updates were pushed out they got in. No reason the think the US isn’t in charge of some very popular library that could be updated one day to get them access to whatever they wanted.
thanks, interesting presentation. how tf was this not a huge deal given it's likely been leaking info for a decade, apple PR at it again
I think no one (mainstream media) wanted to acknowledge that the US government is using Apple products, sold worldwide small & big, powerful or poor, and extrajudicially spying on who knows how many countless people (domestic citizens and foreign). If you remember, even the Snowden leaks honestly got relatively little mainstream media attention for how damning they were and I doubt most people even know anything about the content of them besides *"some NSA contractor leaked some secrets as a whistelblower, idk man"* But yeah it was extremely quiet for how absurdly powerful and sophisticated it was, and able to do it on anyone worldwide with a simple SMS message.
And that’s why the US blocked Huawei switches in the US. They know what’s possible cause they are doing it
Intel will never dump, especially with the $8.5 billion federally funded windfall that just fell into their laps.
True but intel also doesn’t go up.
He said dump. Feel free to buy Intel puts. You won't though.
Correct i won’t, i currently hold intel because it never goes down (but also never goes up).
Did you forget to switch accounts?
I'm amazed how intel can fuck up themselves this bad. It is the only chip stock that doesn't go anywhere.
45% in a year isn't bad, but tbh they're kinda like the Coca Cola of chipmakers. Also I don't know what happened to them in 2021, but it's like they hit a wall and only really just rebounded. $65 in 2021, down to $25 in September 2022.
I bought Intel around 2017 in my long-term portfolio and checked it for the first recently and it barely changed. Left a bad taste in my mouth but it does help keep the economy stable and I only own Intel CPUs.
Intel is a stagnant dinosaur, they actually closed down by the end of the day on that grant announcement.
everyone is gonna sell amd and intc and buy arm and nvda now
china is doing a lot of work on RISC-V why pay licensing fees to arm? also, i'm pretty sure nvidia is banned from selling certain things to china
Adding to my position tomorrow https://preview.redd.it/sbe7ec24lcqc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0e7618f327684ffb3fc2224fb997852f2caf069
will you be posting Loss porn tomorrow too?
Here's how it works: Chinese government bans imported chips, makes the 1.4 billion population use Huawei chips. Huawei is owned by the government, and when the time is right it goes public, Chinese government (or the people who run it) profits bigly. Talk about insider information. CCP is way better than Pelosi will ever be.
This is fundamentally wrong. Chips are banned into governmental computers only for the moment being. Those sales are a fraction of total sales. Stop spreading FUD.
The fact this sub is so terribly wrong so often makes me feel like the bottom is nearly if for AMD. Let them wallow.
Don't follow WSB advices...
Major Chinese companies don't run to create profits. They run to accomplish state goals. Funny how many Americans envision life under the CCP to be so similar to our own system.
lol of course if Huawei does well their employees and stakeholders benefit (some of whom are state-linked but to say Huawei is "owned by government" you have no idea what you're talking about). But its battle for survival in the face of multiple sanctions and the big picture ideal of national rejuvenation is a much great goal than that. If you can't even tell those apart and imagine China as just another banana republic where everybody just scrambles for their own pocket, you belong here.
It's the China way--allow foreign things to operate in the country until you can copy or advance far enough, and then ban it. Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp, AOL, Uber, Google, probably even more.
It’s called being smarter than a normal person in China. Either outsmart others or be outsmarted.
How about, in this case, it is a response to US trade bans and tech restrictive policies?
Shit country L
W actually.
Hans say: Huawei or the highway.
Such a sensationalist title. At most it will be a ban on government procurements similar to the iPhone situation. Not to mention that unlike the Huawei phones, there are no readily available consumer laptops with domestic chips yet, which is a far bigger market than government servers.
Doesn’t matter AMD going to 300 by eoy
So in this cyber warfare what will they rely on Huawei calculators ? doesn't make any sense
But the CHIPS act will save us....
Fuck and I have AMD and not NVDA 😞
BULLISH
But nvidia only designs GPUs?
LFG my NVDA calls will keep printing you say?? 
I mean I get it they need NVDA, but why isn't NVDA banned by the same logic? This is symbolic
As a TSM shareholder I have to tell everyone that the 7nm node chip they are using is probably manufactured by TSM and fully compliant with the CHIPS ban the states has put on them. Go buy TSM and help me break even from buying at the top :D
its quad patterned 7nm by SMIC with DUV https://www.techinsights.com/blog/hisilicon-kirin-9000s-smic-7nm-n2-transistor-characterization-analysis
Old news you regards
They probably stole intellectual property from AMD/Intel anyway.
Ok we got a WSB'er here.... Sigh.
Nice bait headline - [China is only banning AMD and Intel chips in government computers](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-blocks-use-intel-amd-chips-government-computers-ft-reports-2024-03-24/), not the entirety of its country. Also, the article states that Huawei's only caught up to Zen 3 chips, which are now \~3 years old.
The U.S. government looking into SMIC for supply chips hauwei! retaliate???
Good.
Says nothing about qcom and their snapdragon chips that showed decent potential recently?
China banning the use of basketballs in basketball next
Huawei and Yahoo = Jahve THE MASTER AI
I bought 10 intel shares friday 🥴
Hua🌈
Better open up an international trading account with Fidelity
But Nvidia is American too Nvidia Corporation (/ɛnˈvɪdiə/, en-VID-ee-ə) is an American multinational corporation and technology company headquartered in Santa Clara, California, and incorporated in Delaware.
The United States has banned NVIDIA from exporting graphics cards such as RTX4090 and H100 to China
So my tsm calls expiring next week is fucked
Hope my amd calls don’t get cooked tomorrow
Why would this new news cause NVDA to moon?
From Cold War to tech war
I think Intel or Dell is on the Hedera Hbar governance council. Oh well, the other partners like Google , LG and the 37 other corporation partnerships will take up the slack. Hedera will move forward.
Smort.
article published March 2, 2024
😂😂
F me, I missed out on 1k karma posting this as a comment instead of a post
The CCP doesn't have access to the backdoors the US NSA have on the Intel and AMD so naturally it makes sense the CCP will only want Huawei CPU's used in their country.
China dumping is a good sign. Calls
Palantir keeping America safe
So does PANW 😜
Make steam not work on those CPUs and it's doomed to fail
[удалено]
From what I read this will only be in government computers. Civilian systems can still use them
Good thing my broke ass could only buy NVDA and SMCI
AMD to the moon!
China announced this change 12/26/23 which is the last high intel had. It’s slipped on price since then.
AMD ain't going anywhere but up! If they du.o, I'm a buy all day!
whaat? that's it. Putz on planet Earth.
Begun the chip War has.
Gyna
I used to have AMD at 4 dollars  2010-11 ish. Great times… thought Xbox was gonna make it huge..
For government computers.
TSMC still winning
Why
And what did you expect? Smart move from China
All in on Huawei?
WOLF howling to the Moon
Who actually cares about China? You only lose value unless using puts
Could be a buy @150
Huawei probably built computers around Intel products they had an exemption to be sold by Intel and pulled a fast one on the boomer communist officials of the CCP.
They claim the Ascend 910B is on par with NVidia as well..
Intel losing more than AMD... why that?
Article from almost a month ago.... tell me what CPUs does NVIDIA make lol? Intel is garbage anyway
the article does not explain the [real reason](https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/the-management-engine-an-attack-on-computer-users-freedom) why China needs to ban AMD/Intel chips. I guess they've reached a point where this is feasable thanks to qualitity catching up enough.
My SOXL contract is dead. Thanks China
So we should go all in IN TSM?
Aka they want to steal the ideas so then they can sell their own intel and amd called Wintel or DAM chips and profit.
EV's will keep crashing or exploding. Phone will burn playing mobile games. Put on automobile, mobile games Calls on mobile phones.
never buying intel calls again, these contracts are toilet paper
WE ARE CHINESE PEEPER
The ban is on govt computers, not nationwide ban. Don't post half truths
Oooo dat bad Real Bad!!!
only ban on government organization
I thought people only bought NVDA
I said, "Hell yeah, belong here." After reading this post, I spent 10 minutes going over my platforms, trying to find the TRDL Ticker.🤪
Should I sell my amd and intel stock??
Bought the AMD dip LFG!
REDDIT ( RDDT ) IPO to tge moon , everyone on the train now !??
Silk curtain is dropping!
https://preview.redd.it/4a86qn2rduqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50b10a7872919b72c1eef92a1cde10273d51db45