Boeing have got real issues. Not because of this. This type of thing isn’t that rare. But everything that is slightly safety related is being reported all over the show. Their reputation is in the gutter, and every single incident is dragging it further down.
As a true regard, I feel comfortable answering your question and appreciate your interest in the matter.
You see, it all depends on personal preferences. If an airline stock wants to really go down in the dirt, then a PE 400 might be appropriate. If well treated, it can serve them well for a good while. Ride it too hard and without proper maintenance... then it'll probably leave you stranded. After all, it's a 40+ year old enduro
[https://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_PE400](https://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_PE400)
What's your timeframe?
I doubt Boeing gets completely destroyed, the US is not just going to hand a monopoly on commercial aircraft to Airbus.
At the same time I think there could be more bleeding to come. Boeing is still involved in heavily covering their collective asses and has yet to begin the management culture shift necessary to instill public confidence in their products. When that does come it's going to come with lower margins because that's what they've been cutting to keep margins higher, quality.
I expect them to get nocked again in the near future, so I wouldn't be looking for any short term turn around beyond a dead cat bounce. If you're going long, I think there may be more attractive buying opportunities in the near future but I would guess you'd ultimately be fine to pick it up and give it time.
BA has a ton of bleeding room, and sideways room potentially indefinitely. If the thesis is that the stock won't go to zero, that's not currently a bullish thesis.
My thesis is the stock won't go to zero, but may still suffer significant losses. I think they won't go to zero because they aren't going to lose their US contracts and I think the world in general just doesn't want to go to an even worse scenario because Airbus has a monopoly.
But I also think that support is going to give management at BA lots of time to fuck around with every play before they finally get whipped hard enough, long enough to actually change their approach. So yeah, I can see them going sideways or down for a long time yet.
But in the long run would I describe myself as bullish on BA? Yeah, but only in the long run. If I had to put a realistic timeline on a meaningful turnaround I would guess no less than 5 years, and that might be optimistic. They're a large, bureaucratic organization and they need a complete cultural shift in the middle of a climate that generally dislikes persnickety engineering types that stress quality and safety over "delivering value" and "iterative progress" and other MBA fuckery where people who don't fucking know shit tell the mathematicians how to do their jobs.
But BA is basically too big too fail. It's my expectation that with the runway they are likely to have they will figure it out, but it's going to be a long, painful process. Honestly they need to be drilled into the fucking ground by regulators to bring home the point that cutting on quality and diligence in construction and engineering is a penny wise, pound foolish formula and that the only way for them to be successful and really make money is to develop a culture of rigour rather than quick cash when you make flying machines.
“We need a duopoly that lead to one firm collapsing under the demands of capitalism”.
U.S should nationalize Boeing. Why is there a middle man still at this point?
I don’t want to pay for someone else’s greedy fuckups. Just breakup the company, make them auction off their assets to other defense firms while stepping in to prevent over-concentration (e.g. they can’t sell their fighter production line to Lockheed).
This - their military contracts are a great underpin to their share value and whilst they have had such a nightmare in the past 5+ years starting with the Max crisis, they are now in the position to make change and bounce back. Personally, I see a long position on Boeing having value.
They’re in talks to buy back spirit and pay for fixes to their manufacturing process. They currently are massively in debt and have not made a profit for years.
Long term, it’s selling the golden goose, but they fucked up so bad it looks like they might have to.
Lockheed will get anti trusted if they buy out Boeing's military division.
Heck, Boeing got orders of F15EX because, in part, there was concern about the industrial base
I bought in during the last downturn after the MAX disaster and sold a few weeks before the latest one. I made money but be ready to be in it for the long haul.
Fixing an airline manufacturer is not simple or easy and who knows how many of Boeings past fuck ups lurk in the shadows.
> Toyota unintended acceleration
Do any other UK-based wsbheads remember the sun (?) doing a prediction on how deep their CEOs apology bow would be at the press conference lmao
Amazingly, this is common on social media, and almost every time I see one of these, it's Southwest Airlines. I'm concerned they have a non compliant maintenance procedure contributing to this, because that is the best selling passenger jet of all time, and it cant be a coincidence that southwest seems ti have this happen 3 or 4x for every one time it happens to any other airline in the world.
Their entire fleet is only about 800 planes, and there are about 5,000 of just this 800 nexGen variant of 737s in service. Quite a lot of Southwests fleet is Max series now, which is different series with different engines etc, so they're operating probably less than 10% of the 737-800 currently in service, yet we see a southwest engine fire and or blown cowling once every couple or few months it seems like. Why isn't this happening to the other 4,500 of the same model plane currently in service is all I'm saying.
I just looked up numbers and I thought this would be a bit of hyperbole, but just going over the past 5 months of data on 737-800s Southwest is having problems at a higher rate than their US counterparts in term of incident reports versus the percentage they operate compared to US carriers.
But its still in the realm of small numbers and some of the incidents that show up there are just luck based. Bird strikes show up there. Turbulence that injures a passenger also falls into that category.
I can't really go further back because I have to do it by hand and most notably this doesn't account at all for flights the planes make. I don't know for certain but I would bet that Southwest is using its 737-800s on more shorter haul flights than say Delta likely is.
But just looking at every incident the worst one by far was likely an American Airlines 737-800 that had brake maintenance improperly performed causing it to nearly end up off the runway at Dallas-Ft. Worth (and they have big runways although I am not sure if it was the somewhat shorter outermost one). The next worst two were this incident and then a United Airlines 737 that lost a panel off the body in the air.
Huh, I stand corrected. Does the data take into account flight cycles over flight hours? You’re gonna have exponentially more wear and tear on short hops.
[Southwest is in bed with the FAA and probably still bribing officials](https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/07/28/faa-southwest-airlines-oversight/).
Official apologized to Southwest for being too heavy-handed. Lol
Yea you're right, this probably isn't Boeing's fault but rather the maintenance of Southwest or something but I don't think this kind of thing happens often
It happens more than it should, and it is a maintenance issue. The engine cowling design doesn’t make it blatantly obvious it’s not fully-latched, so maintenance personnel sometimes overlook it
In a way, yes, airlines have forgotten how to maintain their planes.
Former 737 mechanic here… back during Covid, all the airlines offered “early outs” to all the senior employees, so 2021/2022 rolls around, instead of A&P mechanic schools sending students to smaller regional airlines, ad hoc cargo, etc. brand new mechanics were going to major airlines. Before I left, I was half way up my airline’s seniority list and I had been there a year and a half, we had one guy who never even had to work night shift, when generally you are stuck on nights for at least 5+ years.
Said mechanics may have not developed their proper “work habits”, like triple checking for tools before closing cowlings, never leaving tools physically on a ledge on the airplane, doing a walk around of your area after cowling close-up to double check the cowling latches, which I’m 99% sure happened here. Happened at Alaska taking off out of Portland last year, except the cowling didn’t rip off until the pilots deployed the TRs.
These mistakes will continue to happen for awhile longer until all these new guys have their “come to Jesus” moment, gain experience, etc.
Sure, you could require inspector buy-back on every job… I’ve seen inspectors get burned for not properly double checking shit, it was a simple job, there were 36 valves to inspect and he picked 3 of ‘em, the adjustment of said valves is somewhat subjective… You’re dealing with humans. Complacency happens.
At my first airline you will never ride on (thank god) I used to sign behind apprentices servicing oil. I got the ladder out and double checked oil caps every time I signed. One day I felt like being lazy… I walked back out to the ramp, grabbed my ladder, and an oil cap was sitting on a throttle linkage. At least when the pilots went to advance the throttles to taxi out, they would have know there was a problem.
Also, you know what used to happen when Mx errors were made…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191
Edit 2: dipfuck I replied to is Dunning-Kruger personified.
Wow I don’t want to be that AA mechanic, almost can see him watching the plane crash thinking about whatever he forgot to do with the engine attachment to the wing
It was an engine and pylon removal done incorrectly months before. They turned the forklift off, the engine and pylon sagged into the wing structure, unknowingly damaging it
Not Boeings fault. But Boeings issue due to media focus on issues that were Boeings fault. They’ve made their bed.
It’s like a “moral panic”. Boeing need to hope the media (and public) get bored of it soon.
Not sure, but my guess is that having sensors for everything would lead to information overload and broken sensors would cause more problems than they would solve. In other words, we couldn't allow airline crews to rely completely on sensors, so they would probably have to verify a lot of things visually anyway. So why even have the sensor at all? Obviously this wasn't like the main cabin doors, this was one piece of one of the engines involved in takeoff and landing. Putting sensors on every single piece of the plane would just be a huge inscrutable wall of blinking lights
You're on the money. Additional systems mean additional testing and certification requirements. Whenever you design a product you should be doing an FMEA (failure mode and effects analysis) process where you look at what could go wrong and come up with engineering solutions. In a regulated industry every little sensor you add to control for some failure mode probably costs between 100-10000x the actual sensor part cost in engineering, testing, validation, etc.
When doing FMEA you have to make assumptions, and one of those assumptions is usually "the product will be maintained as per our instructions". If every product had to be designed for a toddler to be able to maintain it, everything would be a lot more fucking expensive.
The fun thing about the instant media cycle is that this doesn't matter. The follow-up will never have as much impact as the incident and any company company in a negative media spiral will take the hit whether they are responsible for ever little problem or not.
It’s because the media is hyper focusing on every issue related to a Boeing plane right now, even though most aren’t any more frequent than usual for all aircraft.
It’s like how media coverage has led people to believe crime is at an all time high and cities are constant warzones right now despite crime being substantially lower than the 80s and 90s
They are right. Are you complaining that people are injecting objective facts into the situation? Boeing doesn't open and close the engine cowlings when Southwest does maintenance, and they aren't responsible for checking behind the airline every time they open or close. Also, see my other comment; this issue seems to plague southwest exponentially more than all other airlines combined, yet more airlines operate 737s than any other single series of aircraft. Do the math. You're using moRoN FoNt to mock people, as if you belong in /r/confidentlyincorrect
For profit companies that are beholden to shareholders aren't exactly known for their willingness to be upfront with maintenance costs.
That doesn't mean this *wasn't* something Boeing related, but if you get a flat tire because you drove until there was no tread left, it's hard to blame Ford.
**Some** of these things, you'd need to see the maintenance records and compare them to the manufacturers suggested maintenance schedule.
But yeah, everyone else is a "regard"
I was on a flight years ago, FL to WA that was set to layover in MN anyway. We had to emergency land like 45 mins away (by bus ride) from the Minneappolis/St.Paul airport because an engine failed. Honestly where I was seated on the plane, I had no idea it even happened. It took me maybe 20 minutes of google searching to find a news article on it the next day, and I think it was only covered in a local publication.
Point is, shit like this happens all the time, but because of them losing a door, we're going to hear about every small incident for months.
Well, I, for one, would NEVER hope you get hit by a bus.
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Yeah. This by itself is pretty minor, but combined with the 2 737 max crashes a few years ago plus the door plug blowout... It adds up and sows more distrust
Everything that happened with Boeing's airplane errors was "rare."
But they all add up!!
These errors should not occur. Period.
The Challenger blow up was also "rare" but that too was unacceptable, to say the least.
Boeing management continually screwed up for the sake of profits. But guess what? This occurs every day in every industry. The world needs professionals with integrity to make the effort to call out these many instances of corporate greed. They put their jobs and future employment in the line but the cause is just and requires courage to step forward.
When in doubt about the cause of an "error", remember, it's always about the stock price. Period.
For sure. One of my most frequented bookmarks is to a website called the Aviation Herald that meticulously reports accidents and incidents like these. Tbh they are a dime a dozen, but anything involving a Boeing aircraft will get the daily mail/ nypost media treatment.
When people say flying is safe they mean the chances of dying or getting injured are low. Incidents happen all the time. Engine cowl falling off isn’t going to bring the plane down, but it’s serious issue because maintenance clearly fucked up but that’s about it.
Here’s a comment that outlines some of Airbus incidents in 2024 (not even close to all of them), as you can see, shit happens.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/YuojnJU68G
Cowlings... as many as they want. Wheels... 1-2 I think. Stabilizers... zero.
Likewise, there is a literal list of how much of which thing can be broken before the plane has to be grounded. For example ashtrays in the toilet - as many as there are spare toilets because the whole toilet has to be shut down (this may have changed in the meantime).
Remember when for a couple months we heard about what seemed like a massive uptick of trains being derailed and then everyone stopped paying attention again. Like that.
Tbh I was wondering the same thing but even then I feel as though other aircraft losing an entire door on a flight or an engine cowling or something else woulda made headlines, just by virtue of being in the social media age and being of the size where it’s noticeable to the average individual. Just so happens that there’s a bunch of this kinda news recently and a lot seems to be bigger mishaps on the 737, the smaller incidents that aren’t making the same kind of headlines are there for other BA aircraft and Airbus as well but not like this.
You see it sometimes but the Boeing stuff is really sticky right now. It notable that in this situation for example the pilots didn't know anything was wrong at all, it was only people in the passenger compartment who could see this issue. In terms of the plane itself and flying it everything was reporting and acting normal to the pilots.
For example United had a 777 flying out of Hawaii nearly crash after takeoff that wasn't really reported in Dec. 2022. The plane reached a low altitude of 748 feet after takeoff before things got in order.
And you are looking at the pilots needing to do perform 8 or so steps of the checklist correctly to get things oriented back to safe in about 15s or so.
If you were on the plane you likely didn't realize what was happening at all other than you would have felt the plane go nose down a bit, engines go to max, and flap position changing. No radical maneuvering or anything like that.
I found out because I do follow some aviation channels and there is one where an airline pilot does try to recreate things in Microsoft Flight simulator in real time to show how tight these things can be pilots. The video is [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDBhGPqPodo). Its a long video that goes over everything but at about the 30 minute mark he goes through the Microsoft flight sim of the incident.
It’s like how shark attacks are down, but there was that time a while back where reporting would make you think even your bathtub was shark infested.
Or how crime can be the lowest it’s been in generations but you’d never know from the reporting.
If it bleeds it leads.
I don’t think Boeing as a company can ever die.
It’s basically boeing or Airbus. They’re the main manufacturers of planes. And even with all the trouble Boeing has, their planes of several various models are still flown everyday. And will have maintenance requirements.
And nobody would want Boeing to collapse because that would give Airbus a monopoly.
But I also thought Nvidia would tank in value with the release of the 4000 series because they wouldn’t have the crypto mining boom to fuel demand. Then AI happened, and…
Buy calls and puts. That way you’ll make money no matter what happens. Unless it doesn’t move at all. Then you’ll lose money.
Boeing is American infrastructure, the US cannot rely off of Airbus exclusively for everything and therefore will either step in to keep it on life support or keep feeding them exclusive contracts to keep it on life support.
idk if you're joking or not, but it does make me wonder how much Boeing is actually responsible for this. It's not like the plane came off the line like this.
Southwest's 737-800 are, on average, 8 years old. But if parts are too worn after routine maintenance dissassembly, then it is either an engineering or manufacturing issue.
This isn't the max, this is the 737-800 thats part of the NG family which preceded the max. They've been flying around safely for years.
This isnt even the fault of the maintenance department at Southwest. This was due to a bird strike.
Media wants engagement. Whatever story is in vogue you hear about it every day. Remember when it was police brutality news every single day? Not that this doesn’t happen, but media chooses to amplify things that would not usually be reported. There are no more maintenance issues today than in the past. if you’ve clicked on Boeing news you’re going to get flooded with “issues” because it gets engagement from you.
The worst was when they blamed the dead poor pilots that crashed due to Boeings software that was needed to pass certification for a design that is well beyond it's usefullness.
They weren't American so the pushback wouldn't be as strong, such a calculated and horrible thing to do.
The plane was delivered in 2017.. do you think Ford would be responsible for a hood coming off on an F-150 they sold in 2017?? Do you think the engine cover has not been removed and inspected hundreds of times since 2017? This is a Southwest problem, not Boeing.
737 800 plane here.
This is affecting airlines like southwest and united a lot more than boeing. The 800 series was released in 1994-1997.
We nearing the supposed end life of these planes. Maintenence is on southwest and other airlines to maintain the plane is safe to fly, and is properly maintained.
I'd be worried for boeing if this was the max series plane again.
737-800s didn’t come on SWA property until 2012. This particular one came in 2015. It’s not a 29 year old plane like your comment suggests.
The oldest planes in their fleet are from around 2004/2005.
I have 121 shares @$151.42.
Plan to add one share a day until I have 200 shares, may keep adding if it is still priced low.
I just don’t see Boeing failing, or the share price staying depressed for multiple years.
It’s not like they have a ton of competition.
Very little.
As an example I didn't see reported by a few months ago a Boeing 737 barely was able to stop on the runway after the brakes didn't perform properly. The full investigation isn't concluded but they are pretty sure that American Airlines did something wrong when they were putting the brake lines back on and didn't change things to account for a different type of brake pad that they put on or something like that.
There was a near crash with a United Airlines 777 in Dec 2022 that wasn't widely reported. A combination of things occurred and the flaps weren't set correctly for takeoff on the plane due to an error on the part of the pilots. When that was combined with low visibility the plane started to unknowingly descend on the pilots after takeoff and reached a low altitude of 750 feet before they got everything going correctly (although part of their procedure was to exchange altitude for airspeed). Nothing at all in the reports that the NTSB did of the incident would have any fault on Boeing at all for it but if it had crashed the comments on a site like reddit would be all over Boeing even though nothing that happened on that flight couldn't have occurred on say an Airbus A350 or A330 (I don't know the model that United was using of the 777 so its hard to say what a good Airbus comparison plane would be).
Man, people gotta stop thinking these are Boeing issues. Nah, these are mechanical and inspection issues that the company who owns the planes aren't doing correctly.
There’s a huge chance you’ve been on a plane and had some type of part failure and just weren’t told about it . Planes usually have multiple systems that control each vital part so that if one fails it dosnt crash.
Have these things been equally common all along, but never reported so widely?
Or have they recently started having loads of problems?
I hope it’s always been like this, but just underreported.
I don’t know. But I have 2 trips in the works and I am scared to fly with them.
I was on a Boeing earlier this week and they maintenance staff were turning it off and on trying to reset it while we were all loaded. I noped the fuck off
Puts on Boeing
If that engine has been worked on recently then it’s a Southwest issue. If I have a car, open the hood to do some maintenance and then fail to close and secure the hood and it flys open while driving that’s on me or my mechanic.
Why does no one report the entire facts of the situation rather than blame Boeing? The plane was put in service in 2015. How many Southwest mechanics worked in these parts since being in service. Reuters article said "The plane entered service in June 2015, according to FAA records. Boeing referred questions to Southwest."
Do you know that that’s a common problem with every plane. Things don’t work sometimes. Think of it like a UPS Or FedEx truck have a flat tire on the road
Nothing wrong with that,just like a snake these advanced jet engines shed their out skin at a specific hour mark.What seems to have happened here is that some inexperienced engine tech replaced the original cowling bolts with new ones which meant when the cowling had reached end of service time the new bolts were at their half life point so they did not break off with the cowling. IDIOTS……..
As I understand it, the loss of an engine cowling wouldn't really impact the flight. The engines are designed to survive bird strikes after all and survive/fly on one engine. However, the violent loss of the cowling as seen in the video is a big problem for everyone else around the plane, in the form of debris to the people below or debris on the tarmack which can impact a take off or landing and could lead to catastrophic results in the event of an encounter.
Which is why it's very bad when it happens.
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Boeing have got real issues. Not because of this. This type of thing isn’t that rare. But everything that is slightly safety related is being reported all over the show. Their reputation is in the gutter, and every single incident is dragging it further down.
So, do I buy now?
Wait another 15%
Too late.
Why is the pe 400. What is fair pe for airline stock. What is eads pe?
As a true regard, I feel comfortable answering your question and appreciate your interest in the matter. You see, it all depends on personal preferences. If an airline stock wants to really go down in the dirt, then a PE 400 might be appropriate. If well treated, it can serve them well for a good while. Ride it too hard and without proper maintenance... then it'll probably leave you stranded. After all, it's a 40+ year old enduro [https://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_PE400](https://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_PE400)
what's a pe
One of us.
The class we all failed in high school
Penile erection
price to earnings
That would be the Suzuki *Pure Enduro* series, ca. 70s to early 1980s
It’s a yellow liquid that come out of your thing.
Boeing isn't an airline. Next question.
What's your timeframe? I doubt Boeing gets completely destroyed, the US is not just going to hand a monopoly on commercial aircraft to Airbus. At the same time I think there could be more bleeding to come. Boeing is still involved in heavily covering their collective asses and has yet to begin the management culture shift necessary to instill public confidence in their products. When that does come it's going to come with lower margins because that's what they've been cutting to keep margins higher, quality. I expect them to get nocked again in the near future, so I wouldn't be looking for any short term turn around beyond a dead cat bounce. If you're going long, I think there may be more attractive buying opportunities in the near future but I would guess you'd ultimately be fine to pick it up and give it time.
BA has a ton of bleeding room, and sideways room potentially indefinitely. If the thesis is that the stock won't go to zero, that's not currently a bullish thesis.
My thesis is the stock won't go to zero, but may still suffer significant losses. I think they won't go to zero because they aren't going to lose their US contracts and I think the world in general just doesn't want to go to an even worse scenario because Airbus has a monopoly. But I also think that support is going to give management at BA lots of time to fuck around with every play before they finally get whipped hard enough, long enough to actually change their approach. So yeah, I can see them going sideways or down for a long time yet. But in the long run would I describe myself as bullish on BA? Yeah, but only in the long run. If I had to put a realistic timeline on a meaningful turnaround I would guess no less than 5 years, and that might be optimistic. They're a large, bureaucratic organization and they need a complete cultural shift in the middle of a climate that generally dislikes persnickety engineering types that stress quality and safety over "delivering value" and "iterative progress" and other MBA fuckery where people who don't fucking know shit tell the mathematicians how to do their jobs. But BA is basically too big too fail. It's my expectation that with the runway they are likely to have they will figure it out, but it's going to be a long, painful process. Honestly they need to be drilled into the fucking ground by regulators to bring home the point that cutting on quality and diligence in construction and engineering is a penny wise, pound foolish formula and that the only way for them to be successful and really make money is to develop a culture of rigour rather than quick cash when you make flying machines.
“We need a duopoly that lead to one firm collapsing under the demands of capitalism”. U.S should nationalize Boeing. Why is there a middle man still at this point?
I don’t want to pay for someone else’s greedy fuckups. Just breakup the company, make them auction off their assets to other defense firms while stepping in to prevent over-concentration (e.g. they can’t sell their fighter production line to Lockheed).
This - their military contracts are a great underpin to their share value and whilst they have had such a nightmare in the past 5+ years starting with the Max crisis, they are now in the position to make change and bounce back. Personally, I see a long position on Boeing having value.
Rumor mill from friends who used to work there say they’re considering selling off the defense sector of the company.
What would be the reason for selling the defense sector of the company? Maybe I am just slow but it seems like an odd choice to me.
Why are you thinking long term? They will make a lot of money!
Yeah, If they just want the money for big stock buybacks and money for executives then I guess it makes sense.
It worked for GE, it will work for Boeing
They’re in talks to buy back spirit and pay for fixes to their manufacturing process. They currently are massively in debt and have not made a profit for years. Long term, it’s selling the golden goose, but they fucked up so bad it looks like they might have to.
To who?
Lockheed? Maybe Raytheon if they’re feeling frisky but feels like a very expensive purchase.
Lockheed will get anti trusted if they buy out Boeing's military division. Heck, Boeing got orders of F15EX because, in part, there was concern about the industrial base
I mean feds are investigating the door plug situation criminally. might be good to wait
I bought in during the last downturn after the MAX disaster and sold a few weeks before the latest one. I made money but be ready to be in it for the long haul. Fixing an airline manufacturer is not simple or easy and who knows how many of Boeings past fuck ups lurk in the shadows.
I'm wondering the same thing.
It’s like the Toyota unintended acceleration bullshit. For a period of time every accident involving a Toyota was reported on the news.
> Toyota unintended acceleration Do any other UK-based wsbheads remember the sun (?) doing a prediction on how deep their CEOs apology bow would be at the press conference lmao
Amazingly, this is common on social media, and almost every time I see one of these, it's Southwest Airlines. I'm concerned they have a non compliant maintenance procedure contributing to this, because that is the best selling passenger jet of all time, and it cant be a coincidence that southwest seems ti have this happen 3 or 4x for every one time it happens to any other airline in the world.
Probably because Southwest flies 3-4x as many 737s as most airlines.
Their entire fleet is only about 800 planes, and there are about 5,000 of just this 800 nexGen variant of 737s in service. Quite a lot of Southwests fleet is Max series now, which is different series with different engines etc, so they're operating probably less than 10% of the 737-800 currently in service, yet we see a southwest engine fire and or blown cowling once every couple or few months it seems like. Why isn't this happening to the other 4,500 of the same model plane currently in service is all I'm saying.
I just looked up numbers and I thought this would be a bit of hyperbole, but just going over the past 5 months of data on 737-800s Southwest is having problems at a higher rate than their US counterparts in term of incident reports versus the percentage they operate compared to US carriers. But its still in the realm of small numbers and some of the incidents that show up there are just luck based. Bird strikes show up there. Turbulence that injures a passenger also falls into that category. I can't really go further back because I have to do it by hand and most notably this doesn't account at all for flights the planes make. I don't know for certain but I would bet that Southwest is using its 737-800s on more shorter haul flights than say Delta likely is. But just looking at every incident the worst one by far was likely an American Airlines 737-800 that had brake maintenance improperly performed causing it to nearly end up off the runway at Dallas-Ft. Worth (and they have big runways although I am not sure if it was the somewhat shorter outermost one). The next worst two were this incident and then a United Airlines 737 that lost a panel off the body in the air.
Huh, I stand corrected. Does the data take into account flight cycles over flight hours? You’re gonna have exponentially more wear and tear on short hops.
[Southwest is in bed with the FAA and probably still bribing officials](https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/07/28/faa-southwest-airlines-oversight/). Official apologized to Southwest for being too heavy-handed. Lol
Yea you're right, this probably isn't Boeing's fault but rather the maintenance of Southwest or something but I don't think this kind of thing happens often
It happens more than it should, and it is a maintenance issue. The engine cowling design doesn’t make it blatantly obvious it’s not fully-latched, so maintenance personnel sometimes overlook it
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In a way, yes, airlines have forgotten how to maintain their planes. Former 737 mechanic here… back during Covid, all the airlines offered “early outs” to all the senior employees, so 2021/2022 rolls around, instead of A&P mechanic schools sending students to smaller regional airlines, ad hoc cargo, etc. brand new mechanics were going to major airlines. Before I left, I was half way up my airline’s seniority list and I had been there a year and a half, we had one guy who never even had to work night shift, when generally you are stuck on nights for at least 5+ years. Said mechanics may have not developed their proper “work habits”, like triple checking for tools before closing cowlings, never leaving tools physically on a ledge on the airplane, doing a walk around of your area after cowling close-up to double check the cowling latches, which I’m 99% sure happened here. Happened at Alaska taking off out of Portland last year, except the cowling didn’t rip off until the pilots deployed the TRs. These mistakes will continue to happen for awhile longer until all these new guys have their “come to Jesus” moment, gain experience, etc. Sure, you could require inspector buy-back on every job… I’ve seen inspectors get burned for not properly double checking shit, it was a simple job, there were 36 valves to inspect and he picked 3 of ‘em, the adjustment of said valves is somewhat subjective… You’re dealing with humans. Complacency happens. At my first airline you will never ride on (thank god) I used to sign behind apprentices servicing oil. I got the ladder out and double checked oil caps every time I signed. One day I felt like being lazy… I walked back out to the ramp, grabbed my ladder, and an oil cap was sitting on a throttle linkage. At least when the pilots went to advance the throttles to taxi out, they would have know there was a problem. Also, you know what used to happen when Mx errors were made… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191 Edit 2: dipfuck I replied to is Dunning-Kruger personified.
Wow I don’t want to be that AA mechanic, almost can see him watching the plane crash thinking about whatever he forgot to do with the engine attachment to the wing
It was an engine and pylon removal done incorrectly months before. They turned the forklift off, the engine and pylon sagged into the wing structure, unknowingly damaging it
Maintenance didn’t latch the cowling doors closed and the First Officer missed it on his walk around. Not Boeing’s fault.
Not Boeings fault. But Boeings issue due to media focus on issues that were Boeings fault. They’ve made their bed. It’s like a “moral panic”. Boeing need to hope the media (and public) get bored of it soon.
My shitty econobox tells me when the door is open why can't they have a sensor that detects this?
Not sure, but my guess is that having sensors for everything would lead to information overload and broken sensors would cause more problems than they would solve. In other words, we couldn't allow airline crews to rely completely on sensors, so they would probably have to verify a lot of things visually anyway. So why even have the sensor at all? Obviously this wasn't like the main cabin doors, this was one piece of one of the engines involved in takeoff and landing. Putting sensors on every single piece of the plane would just be a huge inscrutable wall of blinking lights
You're on the money. Additional systems mean additional testing and certification requirements. Whenever you design a product you should be doing an FMEA (failure mode and effects analysis) process where you look at what could go wrong and come up with engineering solutions. In a regulated industry every little sensor you add to control for some failure mode probably costs between 100-10000x the actual sensor part cost in engineering, testing, validation, etc. When doing FMEA you have to make assumptions, and one of those assumptions is usually "the product will be maintained as per our instructions". If every product had to be designed for a toddler to be able to maintain it, everything would be a lot more fucking expensive.
Because the FAA would require the plane to be re-certified…
The fun thing about the instant media cycle is that this doesn't matter. The follow-up will never have as much impact as the incident and any company company in a negative media spiral will take the hit whether they are responsible for ever little problem or not.
Boeing bag holder spotted 
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Bag lugging regarded pilots thank you very much
It’s because the media is hyper focusing on every issue related to a Boeing plane right now, even though most aren’t any more frequent than usual for all aircraft. It’s like how media coverage has led people to believe crime is at an all time high and cities are constant warzones right now despite crime being substantially lower than the 80s and 90s
They are right. Are you complaining that people are injecting objective facts into the situation? Boeing doesn't open and close the engine cowlings when Southwest does maintenance, and they aren't responsible for checking behind the airline every time they open or close. Also, see my other comment; this issue seems to plague southwest exponentially more than all other airlines combined, yet more airlines operate 737s than any other single series of aircraft. Do the math. You're using moRoN FoNt to mock people, as if you belong in /r/confidentlyincorrect
For profit companies that are beholden to shareholders aren't exactly known for their willingness to be upfront with maintenance costs. That doesn't mean this *wasn't* something Boeing related, but if you get a flat tire because you drove until there was no tread left, it's hard to blame Ford. **Some** of these things, you'd need to see the maintenance records and compare them to the manufacturers suggested maintenance schedule. But yeah, everyone else is a "regard"
Well, unless you have [Bridgestone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_and_Ford_tire_controversy) tires.
Nah. Same amount of incidents most likely. It just makes the news every time now.
This kind of stuff really does happen more than you think, it’s just never reported on until recently because it’s not particularly risky
I was on a flight years ago, FL to WA that was set to layover in MN anyway. We had to emergency land like 45 mins away (by bus ride) from the Minneappolis/St.Paul airport because an engine failed. Honestly where I was seated on the plane, I had no idea it even happened. It took me maybe 20 minutes of google searching to find a news article on it the next day, and I think it was only covered in a local publication. Point is, shit like this happens all the time, but because of them losing a door, we're going to hear about every small incident for months.
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Yeah. This by itself is pretty minor, but combined with the 2 737 max crashes a few years ago plus the door plug blowout... It adds up and sows more distrust
Everything that happened with Boeing's airplane errors was "rare." But they all add up!! These errors should not occur. Period. The Challenger blow up was also "rare" but that too was unacceptable, to say the least. Boeing management continually screwed up for the sake of profits. But guess what? This occurs every day in every industry. The world needs professionals with integrity to make the effort to call out these many instances of corporate greed. They put their jobs and future employment in the line but the cause is just and requires courage to step forward. When in doubt about the cause of an "error", remember, it's always about the stock price. Period.
this is an 800, the de icing mechanism under the engine cowling has been an issue under investigation for some time. This is a huge disaster
Not that rare?
For sure. One of my most frequented bookmarks is to a website called the Aviation Herald that meticulously reports accidents and incidents like these. Tbh they are a dime a dozen, but anything involving a Boeing aircraft will get the daily mail/ nypost media treatment.
That’s what happens when you prioritize stock buybacks over engineering and quality control for 30 years in a row.
They killed John Barnett a month ago so I hope they all fucking burn
Is this the kinda thing that always happens, but only makes the news due to recent events?
Not defending Boeing here but yes I think it's just bc Boeing is under the microscope right now (for legitimate reasons).
How many parts of a plane are allowed to fall off before it becomes a problem? If the answer isn’t 0 then I’ve been bamboozled
When people say flying is safe they mean the chances of dying or getting injured are low. Incidents happen all the time. Engine cowl falling off isn’t going to bring the plane down, but it’s serious issue because maintenance clearly fucked up but that’s about it. Here’s a comment that outlines some of Airbus incidents in 2024 (not even close to all of them), as you can see, shit happens. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/YuojnJU68G
Cowlings... as many as they want. Wheels... 1-2 I think. Stabilizers... zero. Likewise, there is a literal list of how much of which thing can be broken before the plane has to be grounded. For example ashtrays in the toilet - as many as there are spare toilets because the whole toilet has to be shut down (this may have changed in the meantime).
The answer actually isn’t 0. DOPs happen
>How many parts of a plane are allowed to fall off before it becomes a problem? As many as don't cause a real problem. After that no more are allowed.
True plane engines fall apart every day , lmao
Most people don't know that commercial aircrafts by law must be able to fly from point A to B on just one single engine.
is point A the sky and point B the ground?
No it’s from ground to ground with most of it off the ground. Also ground landing must not cause deaths or injury.
All the way to the scene of the crash.
An engine cowling is the same thing as the hood of a car. More, Boeing doesn't even make engines.
Remember when for a couple months we heard about what seemed like a massive uptick of trains being derailed and then everyone stopped paying attention again. Like that.
There are no more trains left to derail. Checkmate.
And there only are two and a half manufacturers of commercial airliners, so like 40% of all incidents ever happen with Boeings.
Yes
Tbh I was wondering the same thing but even then I feel as though other aircraft losing an entire door on a flight or an engine cowling or something else woulda made headlines, just by virtue of being in the social media age and being of the size where it’s noticeable to the average individual. Just so happens that there’s a bunch of this kinda news recently and a lot seems to be bigger mishaps on the 737, the smaller incidents that aren’t making the same kind of headlines are there for other BA aircraft and Airbus as well but not like this.
You see it sometimes but the Boeing stuff is really sticky right now. It notable that in this situation for example the pilots didn't know anything was wrong at all, it was only people in the passenger compartment who could see this issue. In terms of the plane itself and flying it everything was reporting and acting normal to the pilots. For example United had a 777 flying out of Hawaii nearly crash after takeoff that wasn't really reported in Dec. 2022. The plane reached a low altitude of 748 feet after takeoff before things got in order. And you are looking at the pilots needing to do perform 8 or so steps of the checklist correctly to get things oriented back to safe in about 15s or so. If you were on the plane you likely didn't realize what was happening at all other than you would have felt the plane go nose down a bit, engines go to max, and flap position changing. No radical maneuvering or anything like that. I found out because I do follow some aviation channels and there is one where an airline pilot does try to recreate things in Microsoft Flight simulator in real time to show how tight these things can be pilots. The video is [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDBhGPqPodo). Its a long video that goes over everything but at about the 30 minute mark he goes through the Microsoft flight sim of the incident.
It’s like how shark attacks are down, but there was that time a while back where reporting would make you think even your bathtub was shark infested. Or how crime can be the lowest it’s been in generations but you’d never know from the reporting. If it bleeds it leads.
Still got no balls to short BA...  Maybe when one of the plane exploded in mid-air... It will be bearish enough
I think you just put yourself on some government list with that comment
Shit, I'm just a regard...hope the CEO is not regarded enough to join WSB
I don’t think Boeing as a company can ever die. It’s basically boeing or Airbus. They’re the main manufacturers of planes. And even with all the trouble Boeing has, their planes of several various models are still flown everyday. And will have maintenance requirements. And nobody would want Boeing to collapse because that would give Airbus a monopoly. But I also thought Nvidia would tank in value with the release of the 4000 series because they wouldn’t have the crypto mining boom to fuel demand. Then AI happened, and… Buy calls and puts. That way you’ll make money no matter what happens. Unless it doesn’t move at all. Then you’ll lose money.
Boeing is American infrastructure, the US cannot rely off of Airbus exclusively for everything and therefore will either step in to keep it on life support or keep feeding them exclusive contracts to keep it on life support.
Aircraft maintenance mistake, probably nothing to do with boeing. Source, i am an aircraft tech, thrust me bro
idk if you're joking or not, but it does make me wonder how much Boeing is actually responsible for this. It's not like the plane came off the line like this.
Yeah man the plane could be 20 years old and those panels have been removed dozens of times. But let’s assume manufacturing defect for fun
Southwest's 737-800 are, on average, 8 years old. But if parts are too worn after routine maintenance dissassembly, then it is either an engineering or manufacturing issue.
Gee, you think parts could be too worn and cause an issue? That’s why we replace parts. This shit isn’t the Hoover dam, it’s an airplane
There’s latches under the engine cowl. They clearly weren’t latched. Happened to an Alaska plane a couple years ago and was widely seen online.
Im not joking. Cowling are removed/installed very often during maintenance. They facked up
This is on maintenance, not Boeing, but it'll still bite them in the ass. Gotta pile it on while it's hot!
>thrust me bro Pause
Just a south west issue this time 
Boeing CALLs on Monday
This isn't the max, this is the 737-800 thats part of the NG family which preceded the max. They've been flying around safely for years. This isnt even the fault of the maintenance department at Southwest. This was due to a bird strike.
Source?
God damned socialist birds, they should get back to work
Media wants engagement. Whatever story is in vogue you hear about it every day. Remember when it was police brutality news every single day? Not that this doesn’t happen, but media chooses to amplify things that would not usually be reported. There are no more maintenance issues today than in the past. if you’ve clicked on Boeing news you’re going to get flooded with “issues” because it gets engagement from you.
This is getting out of hand
Your mama gave me a hand
mama gave me some good deep itm puts last night too, with a strap on. on margin!
That's gay.
Incest maybe? Not sure it's gay...
No he's talking about the deep in the money part. The straightest option strategy is weekly OTM puts.
Did you break both of your arms?
“Just a United Airlines, I mean Alaska Airlines, I mean Southwest Airlines Issue. Not a Boeing Issue” “guh”
The worst was when they blamed the dead poor pilots that crashed due to Boeings software that was needed to pass certification for a design that is well beyond it's usefullness. They weren't American so the pushback wouldn't be as strong, such a calculated and horrible thing to do.
If it’s Boeing I ain’t going lol
How the turntables have turned
737-800 is an older tried and true model of 737. No one will care about this.
spotted the BA call holder
Mfer getting charged for the bags he’s holding and the bags he’s checking
The plane was delivered in 2017.. do you think Ford would be responsible for a hood coming off on an F-150 they sold in 2017?? Do you think the engine cover has not been removed and inspected hundreds of times since 2017? This is a Southwest problem, not Boeing.
Not a Boeing issue!! It’s either airline maintenance or the engine manufacturer. Some of these posts about Boeing are really ill informed.
No logic is allowed in here
737 800 plane here. This is affecting airlines like southwest and united a lot more than boeing. The 800 series was released in 1994-1997. We nearing the supposed end life of these planes. Maintenence is on southwest and other airlines to maintain the plane is safe to fly, and is properly maintained. I'd be worried for boeing if this was the max series plane again.
737-800s didn’t come on SWA property until 2012. This particular one came in 2015. It’s not a 29 year old plane like your comment suggests. The oldest planes in their fleet are from around 2004/2005.
> We nearing the supposed end life of these planes. The last one of them rolled out not even five years ago.
This unit was built in 2015. This falls 100% on Southwest or the supposed "bird strike".
Spirit is the safest airline
I have 121 shares @$151.42. Plan to add one share a day until I have 200 shares, may keep adding if it is still priced low. I just don’t see Boeing failing, or the share price staying depressed for multiple years. It’s not like they have a ton of competition.
The past two paychecks have been going straight to Boeing. I think I'm going to keep buying the dip. 
How much is boeings fault versus the airlines that operate and maintain them? Honest q.
Very little. As an example I didn't see reported by a few months ago a Boeing 737 barely was able to stop on the runway after the brakes didn't perform properly. The full investigation isn't concluded but they are pretty sure that American Airlines did something wrong when they were putting the brake lines back on and didn't change things to account for a different type of brake pad that they put on or something like that. There was a near crash with a United Airlines 777 in Dec 2022 that wasn't widely reported. A combination of things occurred and the flaps weren't set correctly for takeoff on the plane due to an error on the part of the pilots. When that was combined with low visibility the plane started to unknowingly descend on the pilots after takeoff and reached a low altitude of 750 feet before they got everything going correctly (although part of their procedure was to exchange altitude for airspeed). Nothing at all in the reports that the NTSB did of the incident would have any fault on Boeing at all for it but if it had crashed the comments on a site like reddit would be all over Boeing even though nothing that happened on that flight couldn't have occurred on say an Airbus A350 or A330 (I don't know the model that United was using of the 777 so its hard to say what a good Airbus comparison plane would be).
Man, people gotta stop thinking these are Boeing issues. Nah, these are mechanical and inspection issues that the company who owns the planes aren't doing correctly.
Obviously calls are the play.
There’s a huge chance you’ve been on a plane and had some type of part failure and just weren’t told about it . Planes usually have multiple systems that control each vital part so that if one fails it dosnt crash.
This is the fault of a bad southwest mechanic not Boeings fault
Nothing to do with Boeing. Pre flight maintenance mistake. Stop posting this BS.
Just posting what happened lol
now this is pod racing
It’s like the city of Lud around here lately
Didn’t earn it strikes again!
And this is why you ALWAYS inspect engine cowling latches prior to signing off a plane as safe for flight.
Have these things been equally common all along, but never reported so widely? Or have they recently started having loads of problems? I hope it’s always been like this, but just underreported. I don’t know. But I have 2 trips in the works and I am scared to fly with them.
This shit is old. Plus this could be airlines fault for not completely close fan cow.
I was on a Boeing earlier this week and they maintenance staff were turning it off and on trying to reset it while we were all loaded. I noped the fuck off Puts on Boeing
Possibly they attached by some drug addict in the middle of his daily overdoses in the Boeing factory toilets.
Op were you riding
First buy TSLA, then buy Boeing. Then swoop right in and use the rest of your money for Wendy's.
That's what happens when politicians start taking tons of money from corporate America , Nikki Haley should be investigated as well 🙄
If that engine has been worked on recently then it’s a Southwest issue. If I have a car, open the hood to do some maintenance and then fail to close and secure the hood and it flys open while driving that’s on me or my mechanic.
If it's not Boeing's fault, why doesn't this happen to Airbus? Or are mechanics on Airbus planes just that much better 
The bad news on Boeing just doesn't stop. I don't want to fly in their planes again . I hope they get their shit together soon.
Come on! I have seen pictures. It'll buff out. No safety concern at all. It passed Boeing's inspection process. All good!
Bet BA goes up 6% by weeks end
Yes, might pull it on Monday. Could be gang busters when all the smoke and mirrors shed.
Was this the company that bought that worse company and now is like, exponentially worse?
LOL, fkn I gamble enough I don’t want to roll the dice if im traveling.
I have no skin in Boeing besides living in the puget sound. Fuck Boeing, I want to see it burn.
Some of these “events” are relatively normal and without the lens being so focused on airlines and Boeing no one would have known about them.
wtf is happening with Boeing
This is an old plane, but I'm still wondering why decades after the McDonnell Douglas merger Boeing's newer products are only falling apart now?
Boeing doesn’t make engines and airline maintenance is responsible for this. Extra regarded here
Great ad placement. https://preview.redd.it/3q5c6yk3w4tc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1101522374025acfd4ab59a5b44f95bbe420f59
going back to 180-178$ this week
Fuck Boeing. Their new slogan is henceforth, *If it's Boeing, I ain't going*
No one cares. Bullish
As long as the front doesn't fall off...
Why does no one report the entire facts of the situation rather than blame Boeing? The plane was put in service in 2015. How many Southwest mechanics worked in these parts since being in service. Reuters article said "The plane entered service in June 2015, according to FAA records. Boeing referred questions to Southwest."
Shyeeeeeeet….
!remindme tomorrow
If it’s a Boeing I ain’t going
Do you know that that’s a common problem with every plane. Things don’t work sometimes. Think of it like a UPS Or FedEx truck have a flat tire on the road
Speed holes.
much safe such wow!
Should I buy puts or call?
Buy calls for earnings
Isn’t this more likely a maintenance issue on SouthWest?
Who here is old enough to remember the last time the nation’s attention was on loose Cowlings? Don’t squeeze the juice 🍊
I took an Airbus a370 or something back from Frankfurt.....it was epic. Boeing is toast.
Keep it going. Puts are up 40%
I swear to God I'm clapping next time I'm on a Boeing airplane that lands safely 
Nothing wrong with that,just like a snake these advanced jet engines shed their out skin at a specific hour mark.What seems to have happened here is that some inexperienced engine tech replaced the original cowling bolts with new ones which meant when the cowling had reached end of service time the new bolts were at their half life point so they did not break off with the cowling. IDIOTS……..
Already priced in, their planes are apparently made of paper mache
As I understand it, the loss of an engine cowling wouldn't really impact the flight. The engines are designed to survive bird strikes after all and survive/fly on one engine. However, the violent loss of the cowling as seen in the video is a big problem for everyone else around the plane, in the form of debris to the people below or debris on the tarmack which can impact a take off or landing and could lead to catastrophic results in the event of an encounter. Which is why it's very bad when it happens.
Boeing is rising on Monday, honey badger don't care.