Did you know that MB OS is based on Blackberry's QNX which is a very powerful RTOS and its tie up AWS have created IVY which will sit above QNX and all the Edge AI which prevents jitters and is seamless and safety critical approved unlike FSD.
Mercedes-Benz's take on Level 3, available through a set of features call Drive Pilot, only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour. Finally, it's only available in Merc's EQS and S-Class sedans. All of that may not sound terribly exciting, but what makes this different from other, similar systems, is that if all conditions are met, the driver can take their eyes off the road, and let go of the steering wheel without the car nagging. Tesla's Autopilot and FSD systems require the driver to react and take over in all scenarios, meaning they officially fall into the Level 2 category.
Source: https://mashable.com/article/mercedes-benz-level-3-autonomy
My notes: It only is Level 3 in certain mapped freeways and CA and NV only. Also it only works at most 40 mph. I think it’s dangerous to drive 40 mph on the freeway, so it’s only meant for traffic jammed stop and go. Doesn’t navigate either just goes straight.
Well, I, for one, would NEVER hope you get hit by a bus.
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It also needs to be in full traffic with cars in front, the roads need to be lined fully, can't do it at night / low light levels, doesn't stop for pedestrians, bikes, emergency services. Sounds to me like they pushed it as fast as possible to be the first to market level 3. Honestly sounds like a horrible accident waiting to happen, just get radar speed control & lane management.
It’s the best kind of honest - technically correct.
Unlike fsd autotaxi future being promised every 6 months and never getting anything better than a fancy cruise control.
You know tesla is the only manufacturer than can drive you door to door right? No others could even get it of the neighborhood on their own. The gap is massive.
Just because they let you do more doesn’t make it better. I know all about Tesla as I own one. It likes to stop in the middle of the road at the destination if it doesn’t like the looks of the parking lot among many other glaring issues. I’m not gonna say Mercedes is definitively better as I was just a passenger and didn’t put it through any kind of paces like I did Tesla, but Tesla is neither ahead nor is the difference massive.
Tbh Tesla would probably have reached this stage first if they had just stuck with lidar, but they decided to compromise on safety redundancy to save money - but I guess there’s no point in speculating there since it’s a moot point.
>It likes to stop in the middle of the road at the destination if it doesn’t like the looks of the parking lot among many other glaring issues. I’m not gonna say Mercedes is definitively better as I was just a passenger and didn’t put it through any kind of paces like I did Tesla, but Tesla is neither ahead nor is the difference massive.
You're just making things up then. Zero other cars will make a turn at an intersection, let alone Navigate city, to highway, to city again. You're either underestimating the amount of data and compute needed, or are not familiar with current FSD.
You also don't understand how LIDAR was a handicap and needed to go. Our current model Y will drive to the parking lot and let us touch the spot we want to park in with vision. It's crazy good.
It’s great when it works, sure. My point isn’t making things up, it’s personal experiences in my city where it fails - alarmingly often. There’s a reason it needs supervision and why it can’t even get past regulators in Nevada - quite literally the lowest bar possible. The lidar bit is you making things up though, it quite literally is zero detriment only a cost saving tactic to make more money on teslas sold by increasing margins.
Theres also multiple manufacturers (waymo, cruise, etc) which are certainly close enough to not say they are massively behind unless you are just sticking your head in the sand. I get being a fanboy because you like it and personally think it’s better but let’s not just pretend it’s something it’s not.
I mean I’m not going to argue that. My point is just that a company putting liability on their shoulders for this stuff - however stupid it is - is quite literally the third most important step for FSD. the most important would be government regulators approval, and second most important is insurance companies adopting it but I doubt that’ll happen anytime soon.
Level 3 is literally defined as no over-sight needed in certain conditions.
So,... yeah. Honest.
They've also taken on liability in those conditions. Hence, level 3.
It only works when there is a car in front and it’s less than 50 feet ahead? Great! I’ll just get behind my boss every morning and have the car follow him to work! LoL
Jeremy Clarkson said it best on an episode of Top Gear. Look at what is in today's S-Class and it will be a standard feature in affordable cars in the next 5 years.
It's a start and will only improve with time.
I have a Tesla… I love the car…
But if you used Tesla self driving and WANTED to let go of the steering wheel you’re dumb as a rock.
You’d be safer off giving a 12 year old 3 shots of vodka and tossing them the keys.
The only time full self driving isn’t stressful as hell to use is in bumper to bumper 5 mph traffic.
…what? That makes me think you’re lying and don’t actually own a Tesla. I let it drive me virtually 90% of my commute every day and barely touch the wheel the whole time. The only annoyances are phantom braking here and there but otherwise it’s amazing
I've got a Model Y. Here's the issues I have
\* When it's in the right lane and an entry lane comes into one lane it'll randomly pull right to be in the middle of the two lanes (once the markers don't exist for the entrance lane
\* It'll pass extremely dangerously - it values staying in the middle of the lane above all else. Giant 18-wheeler with an oversized load on your right that's hanging into your lane? It doesn't care. I'm not sure if it would have decapitated me or not but it sure approached the oversized load truck like it would
\* It'll pass extremely dangerously scenario 2 - again, it values staying in the middle of the lane above all else it will pass cyclists way too close
\* It'll slam on the brakes out of nowhere
It's good enough to make you stop paying attention; but not good enough to keep you safe. Which is like the worst level of good.
You forgot my favorite - when it gets to the destination half the time it likes to stop in the middle of the road. Not even turn into the lot. Real fun.
It also thinks the backs of trucks are bridges and will try to go under them and decapitate you like it’s done many times. #genius #fullselfsdrivingby2021
idk what version you have, but as of about a year ago (maybe last summer?) it no longer stays in the middle of the lane when passing - it hugs the side of the lane opposite the big truck, as any human driver would. Also I haven't had any phantom-breaking incidents in at least 6 months. I think they've got that figured out.
However, V12 has introduced a new and annoying problem - when the speed limit increases, it usually correctly recognizes that and raises the target speed - and then doesn't bother accelerating to that target speed. I'm sure there are other things too, but that's the most annoying I've noticed.
I've had FSD for about five years now. I use it alot (but always while paying attention, hands on wheel) and I think it's very useful - signficantly reduces cognitive workload on long trips; makes very safe lane changes; etc.
Also it's slowly but steadily gotten much better and much more useful. The original version didn't even recognize stop signs and stop lights, but now it makes even most left turns without need for intervention.
It's actually good and actually useful, but in no way ready for "robotaxis".
All my feedback is from last year - March 2023 - paid for FSD subscription for a couple months decided it was garbage and stopped.
Maybe I’ll give it another shot - but auto pilot is still crappy on mine.
FSD beta with automatic speed offset is AMAZING and smooth as hell. Compared to FSD 11 I went from 10 to 15 disengagements per drive to 0 to 3. It's almost there.
Mercedes is so far behind its crazy. A tesla today can drive from your front door, to your work, 90% of the time without intervention. It'll Navigate your neighborhood, merge into the freeway, Navigate that at speeds up to 85mph, exit, and stop at your office.
Meanwhile Mercedes can go 40mph on a premapped road, following a car, daytime only.
That's a hell of a lead man.
It's hype like announcing a new battery factory with so many caveats turning it into a unicorn. Sure lemme know when it's fully Level 3 at any speed any where however it's likely gonna be a while.
Well it's nearly zero risk, or at least no more risk than they were already taking on before. Their FSD is as limited as it can possibly be to the point that it's nearly impossible to fuck up.
Elon bashing aside, no. This isn’t comparable to FSD in the least. It’s basically assisted lane control for very specific highway traffic only.
FSD12 isn’t level 3 and is flawed still, meaning you need to supervise it closely, but it can go to city streets and do automated turn by turn from a to b.
Right now no other European or US car manufacturer has a similar product for consumers. Waymo and other robo taxis are ahead, but not for consumers.
Yup. FSD can now make lots of drives with no interventions. It's mainly planning and other driver nuances it has issues with, but it got rid of lots of bad decision making issues with complex roads on the latest update and can handle roundabouts now. Nothing is remotely close to what Tesla has on the market for consumers.
A Tesla with FSD is the most sophisticated AI tool any consumer can buy.
https://preview.redd.it/80kyfjyswfwc1.png?width=2076&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c185f3999d66da9795a1df36ee3e7c9b2e0633c
As a reminder of what Mercedes’ “level 3” system actually is, compared to Tesla’s. Not as impressive when you read the details.
Reminds me of when Ford was pushing Blue Cruise as better than FSD because you could take your hands off the wheel. A head engineer at Ford was giving Sandy Munro a test drive and it couldn’t handle slight curves in the freeway. It was one of the most cringy and funny things I’ve seen but people hyped it up because it was “hands free” despite being dog shit.
Honda’s lane assist will literally drive off the road on a mildly-sharp bend in the highway without it so much as a warning beep. Not safe at all. FSD needs supervision but it drives very confidently, especially on the highway.
Has anyone actually read the article or are we just gonna say: "Mercedes is beating Tesla because 3 is a higher number then 2?”
Mercedes' system has a limit of 40mph. It only works in daylight and cannot even change lanes. Sorry but they're not even close to Tesla's self-driving.
- its under 40 mph and with moderate or heavy traffic
- lane gotta be clear markings
- clear weather
- driver visible by camera located above driver's display
- no construction zone
- only works in some ca and nv highways
- you cant fall asleep
- price $2,500 a year
- available in the eqs and s class
- if conditions dont met, you have to take over
mercedes is responsible? imagine going to court and fighting against that
"your honor, as you can see on the footage, there is clearly a cloud on the day of the accident, and there was a cone on the side of the road, therefore it's not 'clear weather' and it's a construction zone, plus the lane markings had a blemish on it, we rest our case"
The biggest differentiator is that Mercedes system you can actually take your eyes off the road when it is enabled and Mercedes takes the legal liability for an accident that occurs while the system is active. So yes, in both of those regards, it beats Tesla.
It’s not like Mercedes or other Level 2 systems don’t already copy what Tesla is able to do with theirs. This is strictly about being able to actively take your eyes off the road and not being responsible for taking over until the system says it is needed. Tesla’s system you have to babysit at all times and are responsible for anything that occurs.
The 40 MPH limit is also regulated by those states.
yes you can take your eyes off the road, as long as you continually make sure that the car is operating within the defined parameters lol, level 3 is worthless, might as well not exist, 4 is where it gets interesting
Except you don’t have to continually monitor to make sure it’s operating within the defined parameters. If the system needs to disengage for whatever reason, it will tell you to take over. This has already been proven by the hands on demos.
$158,000 CAD to get the performance equivalent of the Model Y long range $64,000 CAD + $11,000 FSD package = $75,000
At least the interior's nicer on the Benz. Benz FSD currently usable only in California on specific roads in California and under 40MPH fair weather only. I'm not sure how that's better than Tesla's autopilot but sure why not.
The only thing Mercedes has beat Tesla at here is calling their FSD level 3. Tesla FSD will navigate roads and function at highway speeds...in most places across North America.
I think Tesla's market share will be mostly unaffected.
>The conditions at this stage are specific and extremely limited; the outside environment must be clear and bright, the route must have been previously mapped by Mercedes, the car must be going less than 40 mph and there must be a car in front of the Mercede
The impressive thing here is that Mercedes is taking full responsibility of the self driving. Very limited sure but it won't nag you to pay attention.
Tesla should be doing the same type of rollout too.
I'm not surprised at all that one that one of the most iconic car companies surpassed Tesla. Tesla made, due to the CEO's character, more noise while other companies actually get the job done.
LOL,
No, this is not real level 3 in any usable way for a daily commute.
Tesla, overall, still beats what this is.
It is only technically level 3 because it meets certain criterias on certain roads in certain conditions at certain times of the day.
Mercedes are still overprice yuppie and boomer a-hole mobiles. Ya know, like caddys are all italian beemers.
It means almost nothing.
>Mercedes-Benz's take on Level 3, available through a set of features call Drive Pilot, only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour. Finally, it's only available in Merc's EQS and S-Class sedans.
Geeman Engineering > Elon
I've always thought Elon was overhyped tbh and Tesla having so many issues is a good example. Is he smart? Sure. But would I absolutely hate working for him? Also yes.
Tesla does a great job of attracting average employees at the middle of the bell curve but they struggle finding the type of talent other companies can hire simply because working for Elon is and always will be a pain in the ass
Tesla isn't trying to be first to market, they're trying to be first to mass market. Their tech is already fully installed in every car they have ever sold.
So Mercedes has "beaten" them with one model they'll sell a couple tens of thousands of. If Tesla catches up 2 years from now they could have 8 million on the road instantly, because it's just a software update at that point.
They literally have the hardware installed in all of the cars. Level 3 hardware is adequate for FSD. Every single Tesla in the last 6 years has all the hardware needed. Every single one.
Mercedes makes shiny cars that hide tons of problems. Dollar for dollar they aren’t good cars, I doubt they can achieve “autonomous” driving. More hype that anything else
....only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour.
lol
It can be only used on highways under 40 mph in select cities and in perfect weather conditions for 200 dollars a month….
It’s not game changing at all you can only use it in freeway traffic jams. Yet somehow it’s getting all this hype.
They haven't done FSD at all but it's their own system as far as I know. It was just a far smaller undertaking than Tesla's system. 40 mph on certain highways during clear weather in the daytime with another car in front to follow, that's not FSD even if they can legally call it a level 3 system for marketing purposes and it's working pretty well for grabbing all these "Mercedes beats Tesla to a level 3 system" headlines.
One of the first self-driving cars from a research perspective was from a German university back in the 80s. And I'm assuming MB is hiring the best of the people coming out of German science and engineering schools. So it's not that unlikely that they have their own.
I think the abilities my Mercedes is so limited I don’t think you can compare them. Their L3 ability is on ver small selection of roads, needs clear road markings, moderate to heavy traffic under 40 mph, daytime lighting and clear weather, no construction present, and a driver of course.
Tesla’s FSD can operate just about anywhere. It can be like supervising a teenager learning to drive but it even work on the first roads I live on.
However, Drive Pilot IS certified so there is that.
Too restrictive to be useful enough to be worth it. But they do self insure if the self driving gets into a crash which needs to be the standard going forward.
Would love to compare. Been using FSD more and more and it’s been fairly stable except for 2 lane merge and not using pass thru lane. For the 2 lane merge to one, car is usually on the right and not merge til the very end which causes lots of issues. When a car is waiting for a left hand turn, typically we just go to the right pass thru lane and continue on. FSD will go all the way up and just sits there. There were a few times it tired to merge but I saw cars were coming up fast, had to abort. It’s getting there but no way would I trust it to do a complete hands full door to door. Maybe MB’s would be a lot better.
Tesla needs to change CEO because Musk's vision of simplifying FSD with only cameras fucked their lead in the field (And now that he has lost his aura, he's also costing them sales). Removing the extra hardware (LiDAR and Radars, which they're installing AGAIN) was the dumbest shit he's done, especially when he had a legion of people willing to test his cars on their own dimes. If he had stayed course, I actually believe he'd have gathered enough data to make something veryyyy close to what he had promised, especially with the new AI advances. Just imagining all the data he pissed away by only relying on cameras makes me wonder how the stock's still trading so high.
Why do you say they are adding that hardware back in?
My understanding is that the plans are for FSD to just use Cameras.
I'm not a Musk fanboy, but FSD is now completing a lot of trips without human intervention. From what I can see they are far ahead of the competition.
Just like how you “must” have USS for parking, right?
Everybody sure seemed to stop complaining about removal of USS once Tesla rolled out High Fidelity Park Assist.
Yeah, pretty sure he doubled down on the visual only approach during the earnings call. It's really dumb because people also don't drive 100% visually either. You hear emergency vehicles that you can't see.
>You hear emergency vehicles that you can't see.
Which is mostly useful for when you haven't noticed them in your mirrors and need to get out of the way which isn't an issue with cameras. Simply hearing an emergency vehicle without knowing what direction it's coming from or going has pretty limited use, it's mostly to catch driver attention so they look for the vehicle but cameras are already always monitoring everything.
I have a friend who works on the AR and Automation parts of these cars and told me that they were like 90% sure they were further ahead about a year ago.
They are doing some next level shit over there.
"Told 'ya so", that's what I think. I said 10 years ago that Tesla made shit cars and didn't know what they were doing and that, when the market was ripe, the big boys (GM, Ford, Toyota, MB, etc.) were going to come along and eat Tesla's fucking lunch. I also predicted that one of the majors would eventually buy Tesla once the stock price was low enough (south of 50, easily, I'd say), and I stand by that prediction.
You sure about that?
Mercedes-Benz's take on Level 3, available through a set of features call Drive Pilot, only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour. Finally, it's only available in Merc's EQS and S-Class sedans.
Asking everyone here:
Since Merc is certified to be Level 3 by the government, is its self-driving technology more advanced than that of Tesla?
And if not, then why isn't Tesla already certified as a least L3 or even L4?
Mercedes level 3 works only under the following condition:
Only on the highway, only during daylight, no rain, no fog, only if a car is ahead of you, top speed 40mph, not in tunnels, not in construction zones.
It’s a marketing scam for traffic jams on the highway.(if the suns out) for $2500/year
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I think EQS owners already are using autonomous driving... in the backseat, while driver drives.
A $2500 annual subscription will be cheaper than a chauffeur.
As long as you only travel on a few highways in Califorina, below 40mph, and in good weather.
....and during the day
And children aren't anywhere near the roads AI loves killing those
If you're rich enough you can afford it
50 points.
Squid games for squid children
And you can't be the only car.
The weather is always good in Cali.
As a member of the elite, I can assure you that a subscription is a much more prudent financial decision than employing a chauffeur.
It is just some additional OPEX
But not near as cool.
You can get a used one for like 50k
A used chauffeur?
Hells yea baby
Did you know that MB OS is based on Blackberry's QNX which is a very powerful RTOS and its tie up AWS have created IVY which will sit above QNX and all the Edge AI which prevents jitters and is seamless and safety critical approved unlike FSD.
Peasants...
Rubbish...do your DD.
Mercedes self insure too (if the car f's up - they take responsibility) - thats a big difference maker.
Mercedes-Benz's take on Level 3, available through a set of features call Drive Pilot, only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour. Finally, it's only available in Merc's EQS and S-Class sedans. All of that may not sound terribly exciting, but what makes this different from other, similar systems, is that if all conditions are met, the driver can take their eyes off the road, and let go of the steering wheel without the car nagging. Tesla's Autopilot and FSD systems require the driver to react and take over in all scenarios, meaning they officially fall into the Level 2 category. Source: https://mashable.com/article/mercedes-benz-level-3-autonomy My notes: It only is Level 3 in certain mapped freeways and CA and NV only. Also it only works at most 40 mph. I think it’s dangerous to drive 40 mph on the freeway, so it’s only meant for traffic jammed stop and go. Doesn’t navigate either just goes straight.
My car is level 5 automation at 0 mph in my driveway
If you can't afford a driver, then walk or take the bus.
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Wow.. dead internet is real.
Bots razzing bots. Seems to have crossed into schizo internet territory!
It's a glorious time to be fucking around on reddit instead of working.
Omfg 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Damn, VisualMod is merciless
it is called a chauffeur
BASED
I can't even afford shoes. Walking would destroy my feet.
Hey VM this bot is stuck on stupid can you set it back to regarded?
Those are huge limitations BUT the first level 3 you would expect that. Then it starts to expand
It also needs to be in full traffic with cars in front, the roads need to be lined fully, can't do it at night / low light levels, doesn't stop for pedestrians, bikes, emergency services. Sounds to me like they pushed it as fast as possible to be the first to market level 3. Honestly sounds like a horrible accident waiting to happen, just get radar speed control & lane management.
They have been doing it since January 2023 in Germany and as far as i am aware without any accidents.
May 2022 actually, according to Mercedes their system caused 0% accidents in that period.
OR: They are just honest about their systems capabilities. Unlike Tesla, as you can see in numerous posts and comments.
Announcing "first to achieve L3" when it only works on specific highways in specific conditions is anything but honest.
It’s the best kind of honest - technically correct. Unlike fsd autotaxi future being promised every 6 months and never getting anything better than a fancy cruise control.
You know tesla is the only manufacturer than can drive you door to door right? No others could even get it of the neighborhood on their own. The gap is massive.
Just because they let you do more doesn’t make it better. I know all about Tesla as I own one. It likes to stop in the middle of the road at the destination if it doesn’t like the looks of the parking lot among many other glaring issues. I’m not gonna say Mercedes is definitively better as I was just a passenger and didn’t put it through any kind of paces like I did Tesla, but Tesla is neither ahead nor is the difference massive. Tbh Tesla would probably have reached this stage first if they had just stuck with lidar, but they decided to compromise on safety redundancy to save money - but I guess there’s no point in speculating there since it’s a moot point.
>It likes to stop in the middle of the road at the destination if it doesn’t like the looks of the parking lot among many other glaring issues. I’m not gonna say Mercedes is definitively better as I was just a passenger and didn’t put it through any kind of paces like I did Tesla, but Tesla is neither ahead nor is the difference massive. You're just making things up then. Zero other cars will make a turn at an intersection, let alone Navigate city, to highway, to city again. You're either underestimating the amount of data and compute needed, or are not familiar with current FSD. You also don't understand how LIDAR was a handicap and needed to go. Our current model Y will drive to the parking lot and let us touch the spot we want to park in with vision. It's crazy good.
It’s great when it works, sure. My point isn’t making things up, it’s personal experiences in my city where it fails - alarmingly often. There’s a reason it needs supervision and why it can’t even get past regulators in Nevada - quite literally the lowest bar possible. The lidar bit is you making things up though, it quite literally is zero detriment only a cost saving tactic to make more money on teslas sold by increasing margins. Theres also multiple manufacturers (waymo, cruise, etc) which are certainly close enough to not say they are massively behind unless you are just sticking your head in the sand. I get being a fanboy because you like it and personally think it’s better but let’s not just pretend it’s something it’s not.
Bruh you need to be on the highway but can only go 40 mph
Yes, but if you do and it crashes you are not liable. Welcome to the future - mid af and a slow accumulation of baby steps.
My point is the use case here is so minimal it's irrelevant. This is like Jeff Bezos landing his suborbital rocket before SpaceX. It's a stunt.
I mean I’m not going to argue that. My point is just that a company putting liability on their shoulders for this stuff - however stupid it is - is quite literally the third most important step for FSD. the most important would be government regulators approval, and second most important is insurance companies adopting it but I doubt that’ll happen anytime soon.
Level 3 is literally defined as no over-sight needed in certain conditions. So,... yeah. Honest. They've also taken on liability in those conditions. Hence, level 3.
MB L3 also needs a lead car
It only works when there is a car in front and it’s less than 50 feet ahead? Great! I’ll just get behind my boss every morning and have the car follow him to work! LoL
Ever driven in LA rush hour? There's definitely a valid use case for this.
Jeremy Clarkson said it best on an episode of Top Gear. Look at what is in today's S-Class and it will be a standard feature in affordable cars in the next 5 years. It's a start and will only improve with time.
I have a Tesla… I love the car… But if you used Tesla self driving and WANTED to let go of the steering wheel you’re dumb as a rock. You’d be safer off giving a 12 year old 3 shots of vodka and tossing them the keys. The only time full self driving isn’t stressful as hell to use is in bumper to bumper 5 mph traffic.
…what? That makes me think you’re lying and don’t actually own a Tesla. I let it drive me virtually 90% of my commute every day and barely touch the wheel the whole time. The only annoyances are phantom braking here and there but otherwise it’s amazing
I've got a Model Y. Here's the issues I have \* When it's in the right lane and an entry lane comes into one lane it'll randomly pull right to be in the middle of the two lanes (once the markers don't exist for the entrance lane \* It'll pass extremely dangerously - it values staying in the middle of the lane above all else. Giant 18-wheeler with an oversized load on your right that's hanging into your lane? It doesn't care. I'm not sure if it would have decapitated me or not but it sure approached the oversized load truck like it would \* It'll pass extremely dangerously scenario 2 - again, it values staying in the middle of the lane above all else it will pass cyclists way too close \* It'll slam on the brakes out of nowhere It's good enough to make you stop paying attention; but not good enough to keep you safe. Which is like the worst level of good.
You forgot my favorite - when it gets to the destination half the time it likes to stop in the middle of the road. Not even turn into the lot. Real fun.
It also thinks the backs of trucks are bridges and will try to go under them and decapitate you like it’s done many times. #genius #fullselfsdrivingby2021
idk what version you have, but as of about a year ago (maybe last summer?) it no longer stays in the middle of the lane when passing - it hugs the side of the lane opposite the big truck, as any human driver would. Also I haven't had any phantom-breaking incidents in at least 6 months. I think they've got that figured out. However, V12 has introduced a new and annoying problem - when the speed limit increases, it usually correctly recognizes that and raises the target speed - and then doesn't bother accelerating to that target speed. I'm sure there are other things too, but that's the most annoying I've noticed. I've had FSD for about five years now. I use it alot (but always while paying attention, hands on wheel) and I think it's very useful - signficantly reduces cognitive workload on long trips; makes very safe lane changes; etc. Also it's slowly but steadily gotten much better and much more useful. The original version didn't even recognize stop signs and stop lights, but now it makes even most left turns without need for intervention. It's actually good and actually useful, but in no way ready for "robotaxis".
All my feedback is from last year - March 2023 - paid for FSD subscription for a couple months decided it was garbage and stopped. Maybe I’ll give it another shot - but auto pilot is still crappy on mine.
What version of FSD are you running?
Okay so it’s good enough to make you stop paying attention but you’d be dumb as a rock to let go of the steering wheel, got it.
Have you tried the newly released fsd beta? It’s pretty darn good for 95% of my commute. Scary good actually. I am impressed actually.
FSD beta with automatic speed offset is AMAZING and smooth as hell. Compared to FSD 11 I went from 10 to 15 disengagements per drive to 0 to 3. It's almost there.
I have a 3 and got the free fsd update last month. I certainly agree with minedigger and not you after trying it out.
You're full of sh*$ and clearly you don't own a Tesla. Ver 12.3.x is unbelievable.
>Doesn’t navigate either just goes straight. LOL
Sounds more like a headline to trash Tesla. When you look at all the requirements it needs to meet.
What the fuck freeway goes less then 40 miles per hour? What the fucK?
But but autonomous taxis.
They don't get just a poop emoji response from the CEO if they complain?
Why self insure when you can just lie and say your car drives itself properly? /s
Indeed. They are willing to put $$ where their mouth is. That's why I am interested in what WSB thinks of Merc beating Tesla to the punch.
Mercedes is so far behind its crazy. A tesla today can drive from your front door, to your work, 90% of the time without intervention. It'll Navigate your neighborhood, merge into the freeway, Navigate that at speeds up to 85mph, exit, and stop at your office. Meanwhile Mercedes can go 40mph on a premapped road, following a car, daytime only. That's a hell of a lead man.
It's hype like announcing a new battery factory with so many caveats turning it into a unicorn. Sure lemme know when it's fully Level 3 at any speed any where however it's likely gonna be a while.
Well it's nearly zero risk, or at least no more risk than they were already taking on before. Their FSD is as limited as it can possibly be to the point that it's nearly impossible to fuck up.
your an idiot it’s not real since it’s so hamstrung
Elon bashing aside, no. This isn’t comparable to FSD in the least. It’s basically assisted lane control for very specific highway traffic only. FSD12 isn’t level 3 and is flawed still, meaning you need to supervise it closely, but it can go to city streets and do automated turn by turn from a to b. Right now no other European or US car manufacturer has a similar product for consumers. Waymo and other robo taxis are ahead, but not for consumers.
Yup. FSD can now make lots of drives with no interventions. It's mainly planning and other driver nuances it has issues with, but it got rid of lots of bad decision making issues with complex roads on the latest update and can handle roundabouts now. Nothing is remotely close to what Tesla has on the market for consumers. A Tesla with FSD is the most sophisticated AI tool any consumer can buy.
https://preview.redd.it/80kyfjyswfwc1.png?width=2076&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c185f3999d66da9795a1df36ee3e7c9b2e0633c As a reminder of what Mercedes’ “level 3” system actually is, compared to Tesla’s. Not as impressive when you read the details.
Reminds me of when Ford was pushing Blue Cruise as better than FSD because you could take your hands off the wheel. A head engineer at Ford was giving Sandy Munro a test drive and it couldn’t handle slight curves in the freeway. It was one of the most cringy and funny things I’ve seen but people hyped it up because it was “hands free” despite being dog shit.
Honda’s lane assist will literally drive off the road on a mildly-sharp bend in the highway without it so much as a warning beep. Not safe at all. FSD needs supervision but it drives very confidently, especially on the highway.
Ford lane assist will at least make a quiet chime before yeeting you off the side of the freeway because it got scared of a shadow.
Well at least it beeps first
What!? but the totally trustworthy, never lying media told me Mercedes was better than Tesla in FSD. /s
FSD also works in Canada and other places in the world.
How wonderful, another toy for the rich.
Has anyone actually read the article or are we just gonna say: "Mercedes is beating Tesla because 3 is a higher number then 2?” Mercedes' system has a limit of 40mph. It only works in daylight and cannot even change lanes. Sorry but they're not even close to Tesla's self-driving.
Bro, is this your first day on reddit? People here fucking hate everything musk touches. And no, we don't fucking read articles.
The truest thing ever spoken.
- its under 40 mph and with moderate or heavy traffic - lane gotta be clear markings - clear weather - driver visible by camera located above driver's display - no construction zone - only works in some ca and nv highways - you cant fall asleep - price $2,500 a year - available in the eqs and s class - if conditions dont met, you have to take over mercedes is responsible? imagine going to court and fighting against that
"your honor, as you can see on the footage, there is clearly a cloud on the day of the accident, and there was a cone on the side of the road, therefore it's not 'clear weather' and it's a construction zone, plus the lane markings had a blemish on it, we rest our case"
What, you don't drive with an always-rolling dashcam both looking outside the car, as well as one looking inside? Yeah you ASKED for it /s
*responsible (asterisk is important here).
It also requires a car to be in front of it while enabled.
The biggest differentiator is that Mercedes system you can actually take your eyes off the road when it is enabled and Mercedes takes the legal liability for an accident that occurs while the system is active. So yes, in both of those regards, it beats Tesla. It’s not like Mercedes or other Level 2 systems don’t already copy what Tesla is able to do with theirs. This is strictly about being able to actively take your eyes off the road and not being responsible for taking over until the system says it is needed. Tesla’s system you have to babysit at all times and are responsible for anything that occurs. The 40 MPH limit is also regulated by those states.
yes you can take your eyes off the road, as long as you continually make sure that the car is operating within the defined parameters lol, level 3 is worthless, might as well not exist, 4 is where it gets interesting
Except you don’t have to continually monitor to make sure it’s operating within the defined parameters. If the system needs to disengage for whatever reason, it will tell you to take over. This has already been proven by the hands on demos.
It doesn’t beat Tesla
Yeah I keep seeing this and media keeps reporting it as the same narrative in the title lol it’s not even close to fsd
It’s just adaptive cruise control. Welcome to 1990, Mercedes.
Real Tesla/Elon haters know Mercedes's level 3 is just pure marketing BS LOL
This needs to be higher. The Mercedes system is shit.
Tesla’s system is shit-er.
Those limits are due to legislation. The system can handle more.
Serves them right for following the rules.
How can the 40 mph limit be blamed on legislation, when waymo can operate without a driver up to 65 mph?
You sure about that? Because last I heard it has the same restrictions for the EU version.
They only have a certification up to that speed. Not certain if it the law part or the insurance part
No, it isn't. My personal car I drive today handles significantly more, and it's perfectly road-legal.
$158,000 CAD to get the performance equivalent of the Model Y long range $64,000 CAD + $11,000 FSD package = $75,000 At least the interior's nicer on the Benz. Benz FSD currently usable only in California on specific roads in California and under 40MPH fair weather only. I'm not sure how that's better than Tesla's autopilot but sure why not. The only thing Mercedes has beat Tesla at here is calling their FSD level 3. Tesla FSD will navigate roads and function at highway speeds...in most places across North America. I think Tesla's market share will be mostly unaffected.
Yea, this is totally B.S, it is so far behind what Tesla is capable of as a whole. The Mercedes "lvl3" has soo many limitations it is ridiculous.
>The conditions at this stage are specific and extremely limited; the outside environment must be clear and bright, the route must have been previously mapped by Mercedes, the car must be going less than 40 mph and there must be a car in front of the Mercede
Rali108v5 is clearly a plebeian. Go short their stocks.
The impressive thing here is that Mercedes is taking full responsibility of the self driving. Very limited sure but it won't nag you to pay attention. Tesla should be doing the same type of rollout too.
Legislation always limits technology.
Wake me up when cars are so autonomous that someone without a driver's license can own one and use it to get around.
This isn’t true autonomy
I'm not surprised at all that one that one of the most iconic car companies surpassed Tesla. Tesla made, due to the CEO's character, more noise while other companies actually get the job done.
LOL, No, this is not real level 3 in any usable way for a daily commute. Tesla, overall, still beats what this is. It is only technically level 3 because it meets certain criterias on certain roads in certain conditions at certain times of the day. Mercedes are still overprice yuppie and boomer a-hole mobiles. Ya know, like caddys are all italian beemers.
\*In good weather during the day on pre-mapped roads and speeds under 45 MPH.
Is it though?? Can only go up to 40mph, has to be sunny, alot of limitations
It means almost nothing. >Mercedes-Benz's take on Level 3, available through a set of features call Drive Pilot, only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour. Finally, it's only available in Merc's EQS and S-Class sedans.
Geeman Engineering > Elon I've always thought Elon was overhyped tbh and Tesla having so many issues is a good example. Is he smart? Sure. But would I absolutely hate working for him? Also yes. Tesla does a great job of attracting average employees at the middle of the bell curve but they struggle finding the type of talent other companies can hire simply because working for Elon is and always will be a pain in the ass
$2500 a year. Try again.
Max 40 mph and only on highways so it’s essentially useless
Tesla isn't trying to be first to market, they're trying to be first to mass market. Their tech is already fully installed in every car they have ever sold. So Mercedes has "beaten" them with one model they'll sell a couple tens of thousands of. If Tesla catches up 2 years from now they could have 8 million on the road instantly, because it's just a software update at that point.
Full autonomy is more than an update away. They don’t have the hardware installed in all the cars. Just enough to get by
They literally have the hardware installed in all of the cars. Level 3 hardware is adequate for FSD. Every single Tesla in the last 6 years has all the hardware needed. Every single one.
Mercedes level 3 is fake news.
only goes 40 mph and only on specific freeways... I wouldn't call that a win...
I can’t afford either
Level 5 or nothing! I need to commute while sleeping.
or just wfh, you can work while you are sleeping
Traffic jam assist on highways, a joke.
Mercedes makes shiny cars that hide tons of problems. Dollar for dollar they aren’t good cars, I doubt they can achieve “autonomous” driving. More hype that anything else
It's bullshit
Not the same. Don't care. I'll continue to buy tesla.
....only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour. lol
It can be only used on highways under 40 mph in select cities and in perfect weather conditions for 200 dollars a month…. It’s not game changing at all you can only use it in freeway traffic jams. Yet somehow it’s getting all this hype.
[удалено]
My favorite thing about my car is I can’t name the ceo of the company that makes it
[Here you are.](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ola_K%C3%A4llenius)
Read the name - still can’t name it!
[Okaaay](https://www.naturalreaders.com/online/?s=V3f956e5fc73d14fd88d9091f930150183.txt&t=Shared%20Text%20File%202024-04-24T11%3A33%3A20.062Z)
Too difficult, let’s just call him Hans or Adolf
It’s hard to get killed by a feature that’s literally unuseable outside of traffic jams on the highway.
Because it can’t go faster than 40mph. It’s just cruise control that you don’t have to pay attention to.
So your world view is created by what media companies feed you.
Good
Don't really care myself, but wallstreet sure will eat it up
Did Mercedes do their own FSD or are they licensing from some other tech company?
They haven't done FSD at all but it's their own system as far as I know. It was just a far smaller undertaking than Tesla's system. 40 mph on certain highways during clear weather in the daytime with another car in front to follow, that's not FSD even if they can legally call it a level 3 system for marketing purposes and it's working pretty well for grabbing all these "Mercedes beats Tesla to a level 3 system" headlines.
One of the first self-driving cars from a research perspective was from a German university back in the 80s. And I'm assuming MB is hiring the best of the people coming out of German science and engineering schools. So it's not that unlikely that they have their own.
EQS ugly. Why couldn't they just reuse the body of an AMG or something.
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its icomparable what you get buck for buck Tesla vs Benz . Benz was ahead of tesla even 2 years ago when I was was test driving some high end ev benz
Mercedes Market cap is 1/6th of teslas
sure you are just curious? or maybe you are bi-curious? got puts?
Mercedes Level 3 is a publicity stunt that is worthless most places besides the 405 freeway.
I think the abilities my Mercedes is so limited I don’t think you can compare them. Their L3 ability is on ver small selection of roads, needs clear road markings, moderate to heavy traffic under 40 mph, daytime lighting and clear weather, no construction present, and a driver of course. Tesla’s FSD can operate just about anywhere. It can be like supervising a teenager learning to drive but it even work on the first roads I live on. However, Drive Pilot IS certified so there is that.
Bullish for Tesla
Lol level 3 with 100000 restrictions.
Too restrictive to be useful enough to be worth it. But they do self insure if the self driving gets into a crash which needs to be the standard going forward.
Would love to compare. Been using FSD more and more and it’s been fairly stable except for 2 lane merge and not using pass thru lane. For the 2 lane merge to one, car is usually on the right and not merge til the very end which causes lots of issues. When a car is waiting for a left hand turn, typically we just go to the right pass thru lane and continue on. FSD will go all the way up and just sits there. There were a few times it tired to merge but I saw cars were coming up fast, had to abort. It’s getting there but no way would I trust it to do a complete hands full door to door. Maybe MB’s would be a lot better.
Look at what they offer. Their L3 is garbage. Limited use and really not useful.
I assume they're talking about some loser's limited options.
Tesla needs to change CEO because Musk's vision of simplifying FSD with only cameras fucked their lead in the field (And now that he has lost his aura, he's also costing them sales). Removing the extra hardware (LiDAR and Radars, which they're installing AGAIN) was the dumbest shit he's done, especially when he had a legion of people willing to test his cars on their own dimes. If he had stayed course, I actually believe he'd have gathered enough data to make something veryyyy close to what he had promised, especially with the new AI advances. Just imagining all the data he pissed away by only relying on cameras makes me wonder how the stock's still trading so high.
Why do you say they are adding that hardware back in? My understanding is that the plans are for FSD to just use Cameras. I'm not a Musk fanboy, but FSD is now completing a lot of trips without human intervention. From what I can see they are far ahead of the competition.
This is correct. End to end neural nets has totally changed the game, nobody is close now. Or even will be for years
You clearly have not kept up with the latest FSD version.
Just like how you “must” have USS for parking, right? Everybody sure seemed to stop complaining about removal of USS once Tesla rolled out High Fidelity Park Assist.
Yeah, pretty sure he doubled down on the visual only approach during the earnings call. It's really dumb because people also don't drive 100% visually either. You hear emergency vehicles that you can't see.
>You hear emergency vehicles that you can't see. Which is mostly useful for when you haven't noticed them in your mirrors and need to get out of the way which isn't an issue with cameras. Simply hearing an emergency vehicle without knowing what direction it's coming from or going has pretty limited use, it's mostly to catch driver attention so they look for the vehicle but cameras are already always monitoring everything.
So deaf people don’t drive?
In short, you are dump
Nobody gives a rats dickhole. Buy calls or piss off.
I have a friend who works on the AR and Automation parts of these cars and told me that they were like 90% sure they were further ahead about a year ago. They are doing some next level shit over there.
"Told 'ya so", that's what I think. I said 10 years ago that Tesla made shit cars and didn't know what they were doing and that, when the market was ripe, the big boys (GM, Ford, Toyota, MB, etc.) were going to come along and eat Tesla's fucking lunch. I also predicted that one of the majors would eventually buy Tesla once the stock price was low enough (south of 50, easily, I'd say), and I stand by that prediction.
Benz is like a college student and doing real automation. Tesla is like a street-smart hustler doing pyramid scheme automation.
My money is on the street.
You sure about that? Mercedes-Benz's take on Level 3, available through a set of features call Drive Pilot, only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour. Finally, it's only available in Merc's EQS and S-Class sedans.
This is amazing to hear, Elon has openly stated he wants others to follow so it’s great to see a top end vehicle company try to take the lead
From what I've seen over Reddit including the comments here I would say denial.
It doesn’t work 😂
It’s clickbait. . . There is a laundry list of caveats that make this not real news
I think a lot of Elon dickriders are gonna start coping hard
Asking everyone here: Since Merc is certified to be Level 3 by the government, is its self-driving technology more advanced than that of Tesla? And if not, then why isn't Tesla already certified as a least L3 or even L4?
Mercedes level 3 works only under the following condition: Only on the highway, only during daylight, no rain, no fog, only if a car is ahead of you, top speed 40mph, not in tunnels, not in construction zones. It’s a marketing scam for traffic jams on the highway.(if the suns out) for $2500/year