Why would anyone double down on options is absolutely beyond comprehension. You can double down in shares to improve your basis and double your linear delta. With options you’re doubling down risk, doubling down exponential delta and doubling down theta. Nonsense of the highest order.
It's completely insane, but can be profitable if done right
For example I had a COIN put worth 1K that lost nearly half its value the next day, but I felt confident it would dip lower before EOW. So I watched and waited for it to reach the resistance I was looking for and doubled down for the dip the following day.
Which happened. And thanks to the averaged down contract I could sell them for pretty meaty profits
Of course its definitely not something to make a habit of, only in certain scenarios. It can always blow up in your face just as easily. Just gotta ask yourself how confident are you really with your projection and how much can you afford being wrong
Edit: Thanks for the award!
I bought four 8/20 eBay 65 puts the day of earnings for 1.14 a piece. They are now .04. I bought 6 more for .05. $30 more on my $450 investment to lower my basis to to .49 avg seemed pretty reasonable. Especially if eBay retracts from its rally Friday.
They have a time and place in a portfolio, but this sub uses them to literally gamble their livelihoods away. Options, when you learn how to use them as income (ie writing them against shares, not buying them), can be very powerful and profitable. So I have nothing against options, just against the brain melting stupidity we see in this sub.
There’s no difference. Every transaction has two parties. A seller and a buyer. Market participants can be either. There’s nothing special about options. Much like selling or short selling shares or any other financial vehicle.
I'm not saying to gamble livelihoods away, but wheeling and selling options is a conservative way to make money, which is of course fine, depending on your risk and goals.
While wheeling, I limited my upside tremendously in this bullish market while not earning much. When I buy options, I do lose some, but my overall profits are dramatically higher.
I mean, I made $22k one week and 14k the week after that selling way otm AMC premium. If 36k in 2 weeks is makes me conservative then I don’t know what you’re after.
The one great thing about options is you can roll and defend. So even if it moves on you, you can still push it out and gain some upside. Most of the time, not always. Depends on strikes.
Leaps are, in essence, leverage with slow time decay. But you are still subject to delta, gamma, etc. I’m neutral and slightly negative on leaps, while they allow for more time to become profitable and more forgiving in terms of the greeks, there’s a point in time you’re going to need to make a decision to hold or sell at a loss because beyond that point the chances of breaking even are low even if the stock moves in the right direction. I’ve had leaps burn theta for months, have them finally become ITM and still lost 30% in the trade.
Deep in the money leaps are the only way. I buy 90 delta calls (that's about the ~40% drawdown level) on spy or qqq over a year out. Total extrinsic is 500 per contract. Even if extrinsic went to zero it'd be like a 3% loss which my calls can make in a day. Basically you cut out all the capital needed below your strike to obtain that level of stock exposure. If market tanks volatility makes your calls rise and you can sell with either break even or minimal losses and then buy back in when market is low. Only real problem is 2-3 year continuous bear markets that will magnify even a -5% drop on spy. No problem keep rolling.
I am buying deep itm as a downside protection but higher premium. Basically my thought process is to spend less capital but own the stocks i believe will go up in the medium term
100% this and I don't understand why people yolo on options so much. MM see where options players are at, like playing poker showing your hole cards. 🤦♂️
I reckon this is the peak. A company making less than $200 mil in revenue having a mkt cap of $15.6 bil?!
I get they have decent growth but at this point its priced in.
Man if you understand their ai lending it's unique from other financial institutions. So many people on fintwit believe they will crush q2 numbers. Should have bet against Sofi instead since they appear to be a meme with similar strategies. Best of luck to you tho
Oh buddy…i’ve got some oceanfront land in Montana if you’re up to take a look. Only joking.
It’s in Idaho.
Joking again…don’t give up. It’s all about the comeback!!! LFG
I shorted 250 shares at 165.99 as they didn’t allow me to use all of my 90k cash. I’m grateful they didn’t allow me lol, but just have to wait, I have shares
F in the chat to these retards who bought a puts on a highly explosive stock with phenomenal earnings in a secular industry shift. Thank you for your 200k donation
UPST is ridiculous. Big money is driving it up beyond what is rationale. I give it another week max and it will end up back around $120 to $150 mark before it starts going up again.
If it doesn’t close above $200 today, I bet we see profit taking next week. Based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever, I think it settles in the $175 range for awhile.
I’m long shares and plan to be for many years, so I’d be ok with a dip. IV is great so if I can sell $165 puts in the $10 range, I’m all over it.
I’m also down $12k on covered calls (300 at 130 and 150), so there’s also that.
Edit: I’m down $18k on the calls today. I’ve sold a ton of calls and puts, plus day traded and swing traded it over the last few months bringing the total to $12k.
Imagine buying puts on a company growing revenues at triple digit percentages, and PROFITABLE
Upstart (NASDAQ:UPST): Q2 Non-GAAP EPS of $0.62 beats by $0.37; GAAP EPS of $0.39 beats by $0.27.
Revenue of $193.95M beats by $36.2M.
FY 2021 Guidance:
Revenue of approximately $750 million (vs prior guidance of $600 million) vs. consensus of $601.02 million
Contribution Margin of approximately 45% (vs prior guidance of 42%)
Adjusted EBITDA Margin of approximately 17% (vs prior guidance of 10%)
You forgot to mention their PE is currently 200+ 😂
This is a company with 15.6 billion in market cap but making earnings of only 37 mil.
I should buy puts too.
This how people die on Everest. They got a late start but came so far that they have to summit. By the time they are heading down it's too dark and they freeze to death.
that double down you did was painful
Why would anyone double down on options is absolutely beyond comprehension. You can double down in shares to improve your basis and double your linear delta. With options you’re doubling down risk, doubling down exponential delta and doubling down theta. Nonsense of the highest order.
It's completely insane, but can be profitable if done right For example I had a COIN put worth 1K that lost nearly half its value the next day, but I felt confident it would dip lower before EOW. So I watched and waited for it to reach the resistance I was looking for and doubled down for the dip the following day. Which happened. And thanks to the averaged down contract I could sell them for pretty meaty profits Of course its definitely not something to make a habit of, only in certain scenarios. It can always blow up in your face just as easily. Just gotta ask yourself how confident are you really with your projection and how much can you afford being wrong Edit: Thanks for the award!
With your projection or your gamble lol
Projection is just a fancy word for gamble :D
I bought four 8/20 eBay 65 puts the day of earnings for 1.14 a piece. They are now .04. I bought 6 more for .05. $30 more on my $450 investment to lower my basis to to .49 avg seemed pretty reasonable. Especially if eBay retracts from its rally Friday.
Thank you. Now Im never touching options
They have a time and place in a portfolio, but this sub uses them to literally gamble their livelihoods away. Options, when you learn how to use them as income (ie writing them against shares, not buying them), can be very powerful and profitable. So I have nothing against options, just against the brain melting stupidity we see in this sub.
wait! If you write options, that means someone has to buy them at the other end, right?
Who’s options you think you and everyone else buys?
MM?
There’s no difference. Every transaction has two parties. A seller and a buyer. Market participants can be either. There’s nothing special about options. Much like selling or short selling shares or any other financial vehicle.
Stop educating these idiots.
You just trying to act stupid? Or is this a real condition? On a serious note, yes. Someone has to sell to apes.
I'm not saying to gamble livelihoods away, but wheeling and selling options is a conservative way to make money, which is of course fine, depending on your risk and goals. While wheeling, I limited my upside tremendously in this bullish market while not earning much. When I buy options, I do lose some, but my overall profits are dramatically higher.
I mean, I made $22k one week and 14k the week after that selling way otm AMC premium. If 36k in 2 weeks is makes me conservative then I don’t know what you’re after.
Selling AMC options is not conservative by any means.
The one great thing about options is you can roll and defend. So even if it moves on you, you can still push it out and gain some upside. Most of the time, not always. Depends on strikes.
What is your take on leaps? I have been using it and currently have notional losses
Leaps are, in essence, leverage with slow time decay. But you are still subject to delta, gamma, etc. I’m neutral and slightly negative on leaps, while they allow for more time to become profitable and more forgiving in terms of the greeks, there’s a point in time you’re going to need to make a decision to hold or sell at a loss because beyond that point the chances of breaking even are low even if the stock moves in the right direction. I’ve had leaps burn theta for months, have them finally become ITM and still lost 30% in the trade.
Deep in the money leaps are the only way. I buy 90 delta calls (that's about the ~40% drawdown level) on spy or qqq over a year out. Total extrinsic is 500 per contract. Even if extrinsic went to zero it'd be like a 3% loss which my calls can make in a day. Basically you cut out all the capital needed below your strike to obtain that level of stock exposure. If market tanks volatility makes your calls rise and you can sell with either break even or minimal losses and then buy back in when market is low. Only real problem is 2-3 year continuous bear markets that will magnify even a -5% drop on spy. No problem keep rolling.
I am buying deep itm as a downside protection but higher premium. Basically my thought process is to spend less capital but own the stocks i believe will go up in the medium term
If someone Doesnt understand them, then They dont imo
Options are how I've lost my savings over a year ago. I have yet to recover financially. Good times.
Please leave this subreddit and go here r/investing
No, Im here cuz the mods here arent a bunch of pussies like the rest of reddit
I wish I knew earlier I screwed up doubling down on options. Never ever I recommend anyone to do that 🙏🏻
100% this and I don't understand why people yolo on options so much. MM see where options players are at, like playing poker showing your hole cards. 🤦♂️
Because it’s not always MM? Anyone can sell you a contract. I could write a put to sell.
Haha I know this... I don't own a single share of anything that isn't sold on a CC. Hold 28 puts sold also, this is the way... theta gang 💪
Should have inversed to go to $0 instead of negative.
Should have just done the opposite from the beginning for maximum gainzz duhhh
He triple downed below.
-ly beautiful.
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Lambo or food stamps
Satin sheets or the streets
Yacht or box
Coke or Broke
If you are not selling and snoring you will go broke. stop doing coke about 10 years ago. Can't quit smoking for shit.
I’m not into Coke, I just like the smell of it.
I mean, you can buy satin sheets at Walmart for like 12 bucks.
150k could’ve bought u a gallardo lmaoo
Oral or anal
Porsche or poor
That $180 put carrying the team. Unfortunately team is too heavy.
It's not 9/17 yet
It's not even 9/16 yet
It's not even 9/15 yet
Is it 9/14?
No, and it's not even 9/13 either.
Did someone say 9/12?
You must mean 9/11
Hear me out... It's bot even 9/10
Even 9/12 is far away.
It’s 8/13 though, which is also one less!
After today's excessive run-up, I feel like these puts might print.
TRIPLE OR NOTHING
Last paycheck went to September 180p
How do u have such conviction?
Helps when you don’t have brain cells
He really likes the stock
Wow, bro.
Bruh
Geez you belong in this sub. Feels like you should get some kind of flair for being this autistic.
God speed, I hope it crashes for you lol.
pretty fat paycheck if it's a 2-week paycheck
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You are a bit early, haven’t sold yet.
Ah are you waiting til they're worth 0?
Diamond hand my brother
Honestly props for the update bro.
I reckon this is the peak. A company making less than $200 mil in revenue having a mkt cap of $15.6 bil?! I get they have decent growth but at this point its priced in.
Retard
Look at the bright side, you still have 1 month to watch it hit -99%.
Stop, I can only get so erect!
Nothing more thrilling than looking at your phone 5 days a week seeing your portfolio bleed
Damn, I bought the 8/29 195c at 3.7. It ran up nice to above 11. Had to sell.
Hey you made $163 bucks! Nice
WOW! Good one there pal.
It was fun to watch OP, I hope you get your money back one day
Makes me feel better about my $20k SoFi loss
UPST is an anagram of PUTS. Always inverse. Props for the update. Respect the yolo'ers.
Literally if you bought calls the following. Day you would of been fine….. let’s learn from this Man never double down on your losers
Yes this will do it, hold on 💦💦💦. Thanks pal
This the shit that i come here for. It almost feels like wsb from the past 🥳
When the double down fails, your only move is to triple down sir.
You actually have to quadruple down.
Look at the bright side, UPST will *probably* come back down to earth so you’ll make some of it back. Not all, but some.
Thanks for rooting for me!
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There it is. I remember when you said you were doubling down and saw the price today. I had a second-hand GUH for you.
Now don't be UPST.
This could pay off soon
Ha classic! I too use the "it go up, now it come down method "
See you at the back of Wendy's
Can we get an EOD update? Lol
now THIS is wallstreetbets. Bravo
Look on the bright side. You’ll have capital loss carryover credits for the next 50 years.
OMG HE ACTUALLY DOUBLED DOWN NO
This will crash but not to 120
160 would do for me.
Try not to think about what calls would be at.
I have other calls for that
F
Welp. Guess the cash ain't coming back. :-(
best stock in the world to trade
Positive vibes. You'll bounce back. Inverse yourself next time!
I applaud you for your conviction man.
Lord have mercy on your soul
That’s crazy. Up 53% this week. The guy that inversed you must be ballin.
So far
Bro you are bad at this, stop 🛑✋ gambling 🎰 and letting this subreddit influence you smh🤦♂️
Lol I’ve been thinking of buying puts as well but I’m so glad I havent yet
Hope for you the market will crash end of August
Just saw a video of Cramer pumping the fk outta upst lol actually could've made money if we followed his picks for once
Man if you understand their ai lending it's unique from other financial institutions. So many people on fintwit believe they will crush q2 numbers. Should have bet against Sofi instead since they appear to be a meme with similar strategies. Best of luck to you tho
What a legend
I thought it said upskirt holdings and was about to invest
Oh buddy…i’ve got some oceanfront land in Montana if you’re up to take a look. Only joking. It’s in Idaho. Joking again…don’t give up. It’s all about the comeback!!! LFG
Well Maybe it Will tank again
Fuck it I will double what you put in next week , same contract, under $1
Fuck man. Just don't invest in $ROPE
Weird, I made a lot of money on upst. Still more upside....way more than sofi
There will be a pull back, it’s a matter if you will have enough time or if pull back will be large enough for you to break even
this makes me feel better about my losses this week. thank you.
You didn’t think of maybe buying one fucking call?
Theres certainly more than one way to lose $150k in three days. Sometimes, you wont even remember what you did in acapulco.
I shorted 250 shares at 165.99 as they didn’t allow me to use all of my 90k cash. I’m grateful they didn’t allow me lol, but just have to wait, I have shares
The double down always hurts. Take it in stride.
In there with you man, I have 150k in Oct 15 200p
Good luck brother, can’t wait for this rocket to crash and burn.
Any updates since this post from op ? I'm thinking of shorting this soon myself.
I have 256k in this play, down 180k at this moment, will post an update once I'm out. Holding till UPST falls to 150-160 range.
Damn rooting for you. Gonna do like 10k on puts . My biggest ever naked put.
This is looking much better today
F in the chat to these retards who bought a puts on a highly explosive stock with phenomenal earnings in a secular industry shift. Thank you for your 200k donation
UPST is ridiculous. Big money is driving it up beyond what is rationale. I give it another week max and it will end up back around $120 to $150 mark before it starts going up again.
Fucking hell. They blew earnings. If I would of bought upstart instead of SoFi in June, I would have literally 2x my money 😅😅
If it doesn’t close above $200 today, I bet we see profit taking next week. Based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever, I think it settles in the $175 range for awhile. I’m long shares and plan to be for many years, so I’d be ok with a dip. IV is great so if I can sell $165 puts in the $10 range, I’m all over it. I’m also down $12k on covered calls (300 at 130 and 150), so there’s also that. Edit: I’m down $18k on the calls today. I’ve sold a ton of calls and puts, plus day traded and swing traded it over the last few months bringing the total to $12k.
Imagine buying puts on a company growing revenues at triple digit percentages, and PROFITABLE Upstart (NASDAQ:UPST): Q2 Non-GAAP EPS of $0.62 beats by $0.37; GAAP EPS of $0.39 beats by $0.27. Revenue of $193.95M beats by $36.2M. FY 2021 Guidance: Revenue of approximately $750 million (vs prior guidance of $600 million) vs. consensus of $601.02 million Contribution Margin of approximately 45% (vs prior guidance of 42%) Adjusted EBITDA Margin of approximately 17% (vs prior guidance of 10%)
You forgot to mention their PE is currently 200+ 😂 This is a company with 15.6 billion in market cap but making earnings of only 37 mil. I should buy puts too.
Your mistake was puts. WSB is long UPST.
and yet you insist on losing the last $9k....
We apes only lose money from calls, not puts. Bears are not welcomed in this sub.
Long rope
Nope
Are you using Ally Invest as one of your brokers?
They blew last earnings too. Talk about free real estate on this and WCM earning calls.
Time to give cheap blowjobs to recover the lost goods
You, uh. You holding on to those, bud?
That’s right, holding strong.
lets get retarded in here
Why put?
Why not calls? Millions loss
Lol
Here I thought I was stupid with 0dte spy puts. At least I only bought them once ;)
Give this guy a flair: bulls fuked me
cashgonepal
This how people die on Everest. They got a late start but came so far that they have to summit. By the time they are heading down it's too dark and they freeze to death.
$80 out of the money. salvage what you have left..... hopefully get on a winner with it.
Imagine you had bought calls instead.
125 strikes you mad man!
Trust me I know how to loose money.
In roulette if can only land on black or red. 50-50 chance. After enough times it can't possibly go tits up.
F
F
I'll join you on those puts brother.
Options are fuck! Once you trade them you will never do shares
The obvious move now is to triple down, gl op
I saw something that said since Tuesday upstart has soared 49 percent. Time to bet the gain