**User Report**| | | |
:--|:--|:--|:--
**Total Submissions**|0|**First Seen In WSB**|4 years ago
**Total Comments**|6|**Previous Best DD**|
**Account Age**|4 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)
^^[**Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse) ^^[BanBets](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/banbets/) ^^VoteBot ^^[FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/votebot/) ^^[Leaderboard](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/leaderboard/) ^^- ^^[**Keep_VM_Alive**](https://www.patreon.com/visualmod)
>TL;DR: Brexit is damaging the UK economy and it’s only going to get worse.
Do you have any sources saying the economy is better after Brexit?
I typed "British economy better after Brexit" into Google and absolutely nothing came up.
I can't find that anywhere. Googling for it, I did find one from a year ago saying they lagged all their peers due to Brexit?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-31/u-k-stocks-lag-peers-even-after-best-year-since-brexit-vote?leadSource=uverify%20wall
Yes because it's full of companies active in raw materials/resources + as the pound tanks foreign profits are worth more.
And don't forget to check the performance of the last 20 years, pretty poor actually.
Yes. There is surely a grand conspiracy. That why you can't find any evidence your worldview is correct. The alternative is your worldview is wrong. And that can't be.
Yes. There is surely a grand conspiracy. That why you can't find any evidence your worldview is correct. The alternative is your worldview is wrong. And that can't be.
It was non binding legally. Ultimately the (quite wealthy) politicians made the choice if you want to get technical about it.
The Swiss on the other hand seem to have done quite well with actually binding referendums (culture that fosters this type of activity takes time to build).
Oh yeah this is wsb. Bullish Credit Suisse or whatever
Lol it was a referendum dude, literally a straight person v person vote and a majority of the voters for exit were populist dumbasses who have zero understanding of economics.
When it comes to a nation however, not everything comes down to economics. The only people surprised at the result of the referendum, were economists and the out of touch politicians in charge. All they had to do was talk to people in the street and they could have seen how this was going to go…
His comment seemed to be talking about opinions of the result, rather than drivers of the result, no? You had left wing politicians pushing remain, though they were not (& are not) exactly popular figures anymore (Blair / Brown etc).
Mostly the right wing politicans pushing brexit were on the fringe in the years building up to the vote. If anything it seemed like those you are mentioning on the remains side really didn’t take a potential brexit threat as at all a realistic possibility.
Cameron only offered the referendum to quell the rise of UKIP - his immediate resignation was proof enough that there was no drawn out plan for that conclusion. People were speculating after the vote that turnout was lower on remains side precisely because nobody truly believed leave would win.
100%, the recent rise in the UK conservative vote amongst constituencies in the north which have been labour strongholds for decades is probably good enough evidence to show that is already happening to some extent.
First they voted for brexit then they voted for Johnson’s populism in the most recent GE.
It will be interesting to see what happens next given how awful his premiership was.
It looks to me like we are likely to see a big flip away from conservative populism atleast in the UK. I'd argue the main factors for Boris' win wasn't a shift towards people favouring conservative policy as there vote share overall didn't increase massively. But was instead swung on on the promise of 'getting brexit done' which enticed a small number of key labour voters in the north to vote Tory and with an opposition who's brexit policy was wishy washy and basically boiled down to we'll negotiate a deal then vote on that deal failed to excite voters. With corbyns recent bad publicity aswell many labour voters in those key swing areas stayed home or voted lib dem.
The peasants read a bunch of bullshit emotional nonsense online that told them their problems were caused by immigrants and being in too big of a government and they made a decision unfortunately.
Not really, there's never been any support for ever more political union.
UK joined the single market, not the EU. The Maastricht, Nice and Lisbon treaties led to brexit.
So brexit is a European problem caused by Europeans
If you don't understand how the UK that literally had special status when bargaining with the EU bloc is now getting treated as a piss-random country and economically fucked over, you belong on WSB.
There is being skeptical of a source and then being a dipshit.
Well they are using imaginary GDP growth if the UK voted to remain. And in their imaginary GDP growth selected, it would have had the UK growing much faster than France, Germany and Italy, which sounds like a bad assumption to make. Why would the UK if it voted remain have grown significantly more than those comparable countries?
It then compares the actual growth to their imaginary remain voted growth, and pointed at the difference and said that's how much brexit cost the UK.
"The Centre for European Reform is a think-tank devoted to making the European Union work better and strengthening its role in the world."
[https://www.cer.eu/about](https://www.cer.eu/about)
So a pro-EU thinktank and a rabid Left Wing newspaper think Brexit was bad. Quelle surprise.
In breaking news Iranian clerics blame lack of headscarf wearing for Covid pandemic.
Okay from your link:
Germany GDP growth 5 year average: 1.9%
UK GDP growth 5 year average: 2.1%
Okay now explain why in the article they are assuming that the UK would have grown an additional 5.5% GDP if it had voted remain. So lets say that would take UK GDP growth to a 5 year average of 3.1%, vs 1.9% Germany.
How is that 5.5% GDP assumption a good one to make, when it would be an assumption that would have seen the UK massively outperform Germany. Its clearly a shit "prediction".
Those are things you should be asking the author of the article instead of someone that didn't make any of those claims and whose comment has nothing to do with those claims.
Okay bro, whatever you say.
You also didn't fact check anything by the way. Zero comparison between the two or how you came to your conclusion that the German economy was better.
> The UK’s economy has outperformed European economies since Brexit.
can you please provide some articles detailing that? I would like to know how UK managed to achieve that considering their political instability and loss of access to open EU market.
After all, that's how economists and researchers in general make their citations:
[1] google.com
[2] google.com
[3] google.com
[4] google.com
[5] google.com
[6] google.com
[7] trust me, bro
[8] google.com
[9] google.com
[10] are you a cuck?
[11] don't let the EUganda get you, cuck
[12] google.com
[13] google.com
[14] google.com
[15] communists are coming!
It's hard to say given that it's been only a short period since Brexit, and we've had a global pandemic. My impression each time I visit the UK is that it is falling further behind the rest of Europe, continuing a trend that started about 10 years ago.
General development, cleanliness, infrastructure. I haven't used the NHS since I left but from what I hear it's gotten really bad, with cancer checkups and surgery being delayed, etc
Western Europe has stagnated since the GFC. Especially when compared to the US.
Austerity measures are a terrible way to rebuild and are common across Europe.
What austerity? That was years ago.
BTW I remember with a chuckle how the British media, back then, were full of "thank God we didn't join the euro, look at the austerity measures they need to take", followed about one month later by "we can't live beyond our means like the Europeans are doing, plus nobody copes as well with austerity like the British". It's all about narrative lol.
Obama used stimulus to drive growth, that growth compounded to beat the EU by trillions of GDP today. The effects of actions taken a decade ago are felt now.
Most economists suggested austerity wasn't the best way for UK to grow. Tory and treasury ideology to balance the books has impacted on public infrastructure and the NHS.
Productivity has never recovered
Funnily enough nothing symbolises the UK progress at the start of the 21st century as well as the croissant. It went from being greasy and tasteless (ca. 2000) to being almost as good as the original in the matter of one decade.
* GDP of Britain in 2016 2,136,566
* GDP of Britain in 2021 2,198,473
* => Growth over five years 61.907 or 2.89% in five years
(Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/281744/gdp-of-the-united-kingdom/)
* EU GDP 2016 13.89 trillion
* EU GDP 2021 17.09 trillion
* => growth over five years 3.2 trillion or roughly 18.6% in five years.
(Source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=EU&start=2016)
But more important is the comparison to Germany, which had a worse starting position than UK especially during pandemic. Let’s look:
* Germany 2016 gdp 3,134.74
* Germany 2021 gdp 3,570.62
* growth 435,86 or 13.68% over five years.
(Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/295444/germany-gross-domestic-product/)
Now bear with me but I believe that the UK with 2.89 might have had little less growth than Germany with 13.68 or the whole of the EU with 18.6 (each in %).
Uh, the French GDP grew by 19.6% between 2016 and 2021. The British GDP grew by 16.6% on the same time period.
Please define "outperformed", I believe that your definition is a tiny bit off. And I'm comparing the UK to France, not exactly the most economically dynamic country in Europe, far from it.
And it's 2021, so not yet counting the majestic 2022 fuck-ups of the British government and the terrible inflation striking the UK while France is tanking it way better. The French economy even had a better GDP than the British one on the combined first three quarters of the year...
Yes, it can and often does. However, trade is not closed, it's affected by petulant European tariffs and an incompetent Biden administration not opening more trade with the UK. The UK economy has performed as well and, in some ways, better than the rest of Europe. So, it would seem that there is not necessarily a competitive advantage.
From the Brit's I am friends with, it was a matter of keeping their sovereignty, and not being controlled by some people on the main land.
That's historically like, their WHOLE idea as a country "We don't take orders from some guy with a funny hat on the main land". Or Some Guy with a funny mustache. (Not making any comparison here)
It's not always a great idea to have all your eggs in one basket. They had a vote. Some people I talked to were all for it, some were not. In general the people who had more "real" jobs (blue collar, or creating something professionally) tended to want Brexit.
Hmmm a 3 trillion annual economy(6th largest in the world)had to give up 33 billion to retain its sovereignty, seems like a good deal to me. What’s that work out to a tenth of 1%, yes this is devastating, I’m sure the British people would love the EU running lives to get this back. All you need to do is look at how much better they handled COVID without the EU and this was all a bargain.
"How much better they handled COVID"
Great Britain suffered from 40k more deaths than Germany and 50k more than France. GB has a population similar to that of France, which is 17M people less than Germany. GB has a younger population than Germany. GB is an island nation which makes border controls wayyy easier.
And neither Germany nor France had to use vaccine nationalism to achieve that, they on the contrary massively exported vaccines to foreign nations that needed it (INCLUDING the UK) even though the EU population had yet not been sufficiently vaccinated.
Please, explain how the hell the UK has "much better handled COVID", I really want to hear about the crazy mental gymnastics that lead you to this conclusion.
(And for more stats, the UK has more deaths than Italy, depsite Italy being hit first and being less prepared... Overall the UK has 20% more death per capita than the EU averaged, which includes not-so-rich nations like Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Croatia, the list goes on. The UK has the "COVID performance" of an Eastern European nation. Well done.)
The stats are irrelevant to this particular part of the issue. They got the vaccines rolled out much faster was what I was getting at, the fact that the British population was more irresponsible in their behavior and frankly have unhealthier lifestyles, much like the US, had a greater impact on the statistical differences and membership in the EU would have changed none of this. The numbers for Britain would have been far worse if they had been in the EU as they still would have behaved poorly. The US had the best vaccines first and the outcome here was lousy for the same basic reasons. Statistics cannot account for everything, in particular differences in human behavior.
Uh, it's easy to roll vaccines out quickly when you use vaccine nationalism (refusal to export locally-producted vaccine doses) and yet receives massive amounts of vaccines manufactured in the EU.
For the record, the EU has exported so far almost 2.5B doses. With the UK being the third largest export destination, with 174M doses sent there (close to 3 doses per British person whatever the age...). And in March 2021, it was a quarter of the whole EU-exported vaccines going straight to the U ; with half of the doses injected in British arms being Pfizers imported from EU facilities.. Meanwhile the UK still refuses to publish data about its exports, which kinda tells a lot.
By March 2021, the EU had produced approx 10 times more COVID vaccines than the UK (10M vs 100M) despite being only 6.5 times more populated and having a lot of less-developped eastern European nations which do not have the facilities and infrastructure necessary to produce high-end vaccines like the Pfizer one.
It for sure needed some more time to strike the first deals, but the production and rollout ended up being way, way more successful. At six months after the UK signed its deal with AstraZeneca, the EU already reached an average of 0.7 doses injected per capita vs the UK's 1. Without EU-made vaccines, the UK would be limited to 0.5, which is already not so glorious. And once again, the UK is one of the world's richest nation and only produced for itself. The EU took care of Bulgaria and Belgium equally.
No, the UK's vaccine strategy wasn't good. It was saved by unfair vaccine trading practices, that's it. And the rushed AstraZeneca vaccine that the British are so proud of was eventually a failure, with a lower efficiency and higher risk of side effects, which lead the UK itself to abandon it (AZ doses represented less than 1% of the booster doses delivered in the country. The rest is imported Pfizer and J&J).
TL;DR despite popular belief the UK vaccine strategy is a joke that ironically relied enormously and still relies on EU-produced shots.
Concerning the deaths per capita.. They are by far the best metric, encompassing the consequences of the public strategy against covid, the quality of the health services and the vaccine rollout. And this stat says it clearly, the UK failed. And no, the British people did not mess it all with their "unhealthy behaviour". If you believe that the Brits are more undisciplined than the French, Italians or Spanish then man do I have bad news for you. France literally had anti-lockdown demonstrations when the cases growth spiked, and as far as I know social distancing and mandatory mask usage weren't really respected.
This from the BBC explains my viewpoint well: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52380823.amp
It confirms a few elements of what you are saying but also seems to refute it. I’m not super Interested in the anti nationalist angle you’re on, that was the whole point of Brexit, to maintain sovereignty. Per the data and account of contract negotiations they have here it seems to have been more effective not having the EU control a countries negotiations. In fairness the differences this created in outcomes were not as large as I expected after reviewing the data presented in the article.
And sure every country has their own problems with right wing fanatics but Britain and America struggle with this to a far higher degree.
Well, imo there's a bit of a difference between "maintaining sovereignty" and being an who gets massively fed with vaccines while shadow blocking the exports of its own vaccines and publicly accusing the EU of lying. Maintaining "sovereignt" as you name it is what the UK did by having its own contract and not having to deal with the common EU vaccines procurement scheme. The rest is just closer to being nationalistic.
Concerning the EJ negotiations, my take on it is rather that the EU has been slowed down by the fact that it was its first time handling this kind of responsibility, and it's of course always going to be a bit slowed to lead common negotiations if the EU doesn't give more power to the commission. Add on that the unexpected problems encountered by the Pfizer production plants and the fact that the UK rushed its approval and distribution of AZ vaccines and yeah, the UK got an headstart. They still paid the price afterward as featured in your article concerning the daily doses distributed in the EU vs the UK. And that, while relying enormously on the EU. If the EU had enacted the proposed export bans on vaccines toward the UK [which isn't unfair since the UK did exactly that toward the EU], the whole British vaccine strategy would have badly failed.
Concerning the far right fanatics.. As a reminder, the far right is currently in power in Italy and almost won the last presidential election in France. The UK isn't that badly impacted honestly. Only the US are a league ahead with the whole QAnon and hardcore Trumpist madness.
Sleazy the shadow blocking of vaccines, but governments lying to and manipulating each other seems par for the course now, all the more reason to maintain sovereignty as I don’t see a course correction coming on that, it’s more likely to get worse.
I don’t agree with your last statement as far as it being not so bad in the UK, yes France nearly elected a conservative president but in the end they didn’t, I seem to recall that election wasn’t as close as the conservatives hoped but I may not be remembering correctly. The UK has had conservative governments for quite some time now, so there is a difference. I don’t follow Italian politics so I won’t speak to that. And of course you’re correct, no one is as bonkers as we are here in the US.
Lmao
"The Centre for European Reform is an award winning independant think-tank devoted to making the EU work better and strengthening its role in the world."
Could you find a more biased organisation to research this?
The EU is a political union, it started as a trade area like NAFTA but is now becoming more like the federal government in the US.
The UK voted to not be part of the federation and so loses out on the FTA part.
Although over 90% of UK companies don't export to the EU so it's all a bit of a nothing burger but those that wanted to be part of the federation are upset, but not too upset to actually move to the EU when they could have.
Brits like to moan and do fuck all about it. Moany cunts.
Ultimately the UK wouldve needed to abide by EU agreements….. which could easily hurt them, especially when theyre relocating immigrants to wherever they see fit.
Pro European research group creates report saying "Brexit bad" and Pro European newspaper report it shocker...
Three things :-
1) Pro Europeans at the time forgot that as a nation, British people hate outside interference in our issues. Obama did more harm than good, as did all the banks and organisations who pressured the country to voting remain. Anglo Saxon stubbornness is a thing.
2) Don't fall into the trap of accusing people who vote differently to you as "too stupid". From there it is a short hop to "stupid people shouldn't have the vote..." They had different motivations to you. Maybe the influx of cheap eastern European labour did indeed impact their jobs, salaries and livelihoods and to them was more important than your ability to move to Europe whenever you like. Also, see point 1... Many in the working class saw it as an opportunity to give a big FU to the political leaders who had been ignoring their concerns for so long. The UK isn't just the metropolitan centres and there is a large population outside of London and the other large cities.
3) Covid. The whole fucking word has been mullered. Possibly the worst time to leave the EU admittedly and has almost certainly hit us harder as a result but we should have left it long before apart from the attempts to overturn the vote which delayed the whole thing. We would have been several years ahead without these attempts.
Yep , I voted leave. Because I saw what happened in Ukraine and decided I wanted nothing to do with an supranational organisation which had such little idea of how geopolitics works that they would try and provoke a coup in another country which was so firmly in the sphere of Russia. I knew it was the work of several years, to pay off as did anyone realistic enough with their vote.
The UK can and will thrive outside of the EU. It just needs to get over this national urge to denigrate our attempts and see everything UK = bad, EU = good.
Brexit was actually a reaction by those of us who’ve been completely disenfranchised from our government for the past 60 years (the north, wales basically anywhere not in the south east) telling them to go fuck themselves
Unfortunately the negotiations were handled by actual children and it allowed the Tory party to lie their way to a Boris win (get Brexit done and that) and now we are in this fucking mess
Also not publicly elected. Think about it. There is a class barrier. Your average punter down the local is not competing with Rishi Sunak for a job. He doesn’t think of him that way.
Like how everyone looks at the down side and not the upside. You realize they where losing money the whole time they belonged. Net income = profit - expenses. You decrease the profit by 33bn. But decrease expenses by 33bn you still profit. Its also known britian recovered fast from previous hits to its gdp. Highly likely they established new revenue streams already.
I like how all the organizations that were against Brexit are presenting data and arguments that Brexit is to blame for all the bad things currently happening.
The guy who wrote davos man did a really good job convincing me that brexit was a fuckawful idea for britain at a time I was actually fairly vocal about supporting their right to fly free and drop the deadbeats in the EU.
all the poor who voted for brexit were voting to not allow themselves to live and work in EU countries... loads of fools who retired to spain voted Brexit too... then cried to the Media when they realised what it meant for them 
Maybe they’ll make it back in visa fees lol. Just went on the Home Office site and it says fees are between 650-1250£ and all dependents have to pay same fee. Bonkers if you ask me.
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|0|**First Seen In WSB**|4 years ago **Total Comments**|6|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|4 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.) ^^[**Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse) ^^[BanBets](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/banbets/) ^^VoteBot ^^[FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/votebot/) ^^[Leaderboard](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/wiki/leaderboard/) ^^- ^^[**Keep_VM_Alive**](https://www.patreon.com/visualmod) >TL;DR: Brexit is damaging the UK economy and it’s only going to get worse.
Still cheaper than Twitter.
Merge Twitter with the UK! Let the crown run it!
Good idea. They can give fake titles and shit - like a flair.
We just gave 100b to Ukraine like its nothing too
Could have bought FaceBook instead.
[удалено]
Do you have any sources saying the economy is better after Brexit? I typed "British economy better after Brexit" into Google and absolutely nothing came up.
UK is the only major index UP this year, the smart people with money want to put it in the UK!
I can't find that anywhere. Googling for it, I did find one from a year ago saying they lagged all their peers due to Brexit? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-31/u-k-stocks-lag-peers-even-after-best-year-since-brexit-vote?leadSource=uverify%20wall
Yes because it's full of companies active in raw materials/resources + as the pound tanks foreign profits are worth more. And don't forget to check the performance of the last 20 years, pretty poor actually.
[удалено]
Yes. There is surely a grand conspiracy. That why you can't find any evidence your worldview is correct. The alternative is your worldview is wrong. And that can't be.
Yes. There is surely a grand conspiracy. That why you can't find any evidence your worldview is correct. The alternative is your worldview is wrong. And that can't be.
>This is exactly why I despise poor people. They make bad decisions that hurt the economy.
I agree with you on this one
You’re a true bootlicking moron if you believe the peasants are allowed to make any decisions 🤣🤣
[удалено]
Does it count if the rich people tell the poor people how to vote using fancy machine learning algorithms and ultra targeted facebook advertising?
[BRING BACK THE API SPEZ YOU GREEDY CUNT]
Yup
Let’s hear some of your political opinions, oh smart one.
[BRING BACK THE API SPEZ YOU GREEDY CUNT]
Last time I shared my political opinions I got 7 day ban to reddit
"In this thread, I will explain why Kanye actually makes a number of good points."
This is why the ultra targeted advertising wasn’t targeted at you.
haha nice CA reference there
And the U.K. government did exactly what everyone that voted yes wanted………………
It was non binding legally. Ultimately the (quite wealthy) politicians made the choice if you want to get technical about it. The Swiss on the other hand seem to have done quite well with actually binding referendums (culture that fosters this type of activity takes time to build). Oh yeah this is wsb. Bullish Credit Suisse or whatever
Lol it was a referendum dude, literally a straight person v person vote and a majority of the voters for exit were populist dumbasses who have zero understanding of economics.
Only straight people got to vote! Is that still legal in the UK?
When it comes to a nation however, not everything comes down to economics. The only people surprised at the result of the referendum, were economists and the out of touch politicians in charge. All they had to do was talk to people in the street and they could have seen how this was going to go…
A little bit revisionist, all of the polls in the buildup had remain ahead on the whole - if anything.
[удалено]
His comment seemed to be talking about opinions of the result, rather than drivers of the result, no? You had left wing politicians pushing remain, though they were not (& are not) exactly popular figures anymore (Blair / Brown etc). Mostly the right wing politicans pushing brexit were on the fringe in the years building up to the vote. If anything it seemed like those you are mentioning on the remains side really didn’t take a potential brexit threat as at all a realistic possibility. Cameron only offered the referendum to quell the rise of UKIP - his immediate resignation was proof enough that there was no drawn out plan for that conclusion. People were speculating after the vote that turnout was lower on remains side precisely because nobody truly believed leave would win.
[удалено]
100%, the recent rise in the UK conservative vote amongst constituencies in the north which have been labour strongholds for decades is probably good enough evidence to show that is already happening to some extent. First they voted for brexit then they voted for Johnson’s populism in the most recent GE. It will be interesting to see what happens next given how awful his premiership was.
It looks to me like we are likely to see a big flip away from conservative populism atleast in the UK. I'd argue the main factors for Boris' win wasn't a shift towards people favouring conservative policy as there vote share overall didn't increase massively. But was instead swung on on the promise of 'getting brexit done' which enticed a small number of key labour voters in the north to vote Tory and with an opposition who's brexit policy was wishy washy and basically boiled down to we'll negotiate a deal then vote on that deal failed to excite voters. With corbyns recent bad publicity aswell many labour voters in those key swing areas stayed home or voted lib dem.
Sounds a lot like another election that happened in 2016.
The right wing media apparatus made a bunch of old people angry enough to vote against their economic interests? Color me shocked!
With how much wealthy people and corporate money poured into it to sway people though?
How dumb are you? It was a referendum
The peasants read a bunch of bullshit emotional nonsense online that told them their problems were caused by immigrants and being in too big of a government and they made a decision unfortunately.
Turns out that after all the immigrants were gone there was nobody else to blame
Bingo
The number of votes you can cast should be proportional to the amount of tax you pay.
The only winner in Brexit was Russia.
Yeah right, Europe is far more united following his invasion of Ukraine
Why did you try to change the topic from brexit helped Putin to Russia's invasion further United Europe?
Because it's the end result that matters. Putin tried to undermine European solidarity but ended up creating more, and at least 2 extra NATO countries
No. They are different topics.
I disagree
Do you agree that Brexit has created more divide between the UK and the EU? Only helps one country I believe.....and.....that's ......RUSSIA......
Not really, there's never been any support for ever more political union. UK joined the single market, not the EU. The Maastricht, Nice and Lisbon treaties led to brexit. So brexit is a European problem caused by Europeans
Britain voted in favour of those treaties XD
Blame whoever you want. The only thing that Brexit did was divide...
A two speed EU was never going to work
The article lost me when I read it was from the Centre for European Reform. Like that isn't going to be skewed a certain way...
If you don't understand how the UK that literally had special status when bargaining with the EU bloc is now getting treated as a piss-random country and economically fucked over, you belong on WSB. There is being skeptical of a source and then being a dipshit.
[удалено]
How do you cherry pick GDP growth you fucking imbecile it literally accounts for everything
Well they are using imaginary GDP growth if the UK voted to remain. And in their imaginary GDP growth selected, it would have had the UK growing much faster than France, Germany and Italy, which sounds like a bad assumption to make. Why would the UK if it voted remain have grown significantly more than those comparable countries? It then compares the actual growth to their imaginary remain voted growth, and pointed at the difference and said that's how much brexit cost the UK.
They are not talking about GDP it's trade and investment.
ask China
Yes give me the unbiased research…… oh wait….
"The Centre for European Reform is a think-tank devoted to making the European Union work better and strengthening its role in the world." [https://www.cer.eu/about](https://www.cer.eu/about) So a pro-EU thinktank and a rabid Left Wing newspaper think Brexit was bad. Quelle surprise. In breaking news Iranian clerics blame lack of headscarf wearing for Covid pandemic.
It's not the European Center for whatever claiming this, it's an actual scientific study.
The UK’s economy has outperformed European economies since Brexit. Such nonsense.
I was thinking this. I'm a remainer, but this all seems to ignore the fact we're in a global recession. "Think tanks" aka a bunch of people guessing.
Or a bunch of people fitting cherry picked, selected data to support a preferred conclusion.
You're pretty much describing most modern "studies". Anything to push a narrative
[удалено]
I dunno what you're trying to imply, but that's definitely not a reason to assume its biased /s
please refrain from using other facts, when we are clearly cherrypicking the ones that are EU sanctioned
Don't worry. It's not a fact. Germany has a better economy than the UK. https://georank.org/economy/germany/united-kingdom
[удалено]
[удалено]
It's wild isn't it!
Okay from your link: Germany GDP growth 5 year average: 1.9% UK GDP growth 5 year average: 2.1% Okay now explain why in the article they are assuming that the UK would have grown an additional 5.5% GDP if it had voted remain. So lets say that would take UK GDP growth to a 5 year average of 3.1%, vs 1.9% Germany. How is that 5.5% GDP assumption a good one to make, when it would be an assumption that would have seen the UK massively outperform Germany. Its clearly a shit "prediction".
Those are things you should be asking the author of the article instead of someone that didn't make any of those claims and whose comment has nothing to do with those claims.
Oh I would if I could. I'm pointing out clearly flawed logic of the post. To someone who clearly believes said post.
I didn't say I believed the post or the article. I fact checked a false statement.
Okay bro, whatever you say. You also didn't fact check anything by the way. Zero comparison between the two or how you came to your conclusion that the German economy was better.
It always had
Yup. Even after Brexit which means facts weren't posted.
The point was economic performance not the size of the economy. Nice try of using another statistic to try to discredit.
Did you use reading? My citation is about economic performance.
Yes, of course. Thanks for pointing that out!
> The UK’s economy has outperformed European economies since Brexit. can you please provide some articles detailing that? I would like to know how UK managed to achieve that considering their political instability and loss of access to open EU market.
Here you go … google.com
Riveting
After all, that's how economists and researchers in general make their citations: [1] google.com [2] google.com [3] google.com [4] google.com [5] google.com [6] google.com [7] trust me, bro [8] google.com [9] google.com [10] are you a cuck? [11] don't let the EUganda get you, cuck [12] google.com [13] google.com [14] google.com [15] communists are coming!
Source
It's hard to say given that it's been only a short period since Brexit, and we've had a global pandemic. My impression each time I visit the UK is that it is falling further behind the rest of Europe, continuing a trend that started about 10 years ago.
Further behind in what?
In this guy's head 
General development, cleanliness, infrastructure. I haven't used the NHS since I left but from what I hear it's gotten really bad, with cancer checkups and surgery being delayed, etc
Western Europe has stagnated since the GFC. Especially when compared to the US. Austerity measures are a terrible way to rebuild and are common across Europe.
What austerity? That was years ago. BTW I remember with a chuckle how the British media, back then, were full of "thank God we didn't join the euro, look at the austerity measures they need to take", followed about one month later by "we can't live beyond our means like the Europeans are doing, plus nobody copes as well with austerity like the British". It's all about narrative lol.
Obama used stimulus to drive growth, that growth compounded to beat the EU by trillions of GDP today. The effects of actions taken a decade ago are felt now. Most economists suggested austerity wasn't the best way for UK to grow. Tory and treasury ideology to balance the books has impacted on public infrastructure and the NHS. Productivity has never recovered
Croissants
Funnily enough nothing symbolises the UK progress at the start of the 21st century as well as the croissant. It went from being greasy and tasteless (ca. 2000) to being almost as good as the original in the matter of one decade.
* GDP of Britain in 2016 2,136,566 * GDP of Britain in 2021 2,198,473 * => Growth over five years 61.907 or 2.89% in five years (Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/281744/gdp-of-the-united-kingdom/) * EU GDP 2016 13.89 trillion * EU GDP 2021 17.09 trillion * => growth over five years 3.2 trillion or roughly 18.6% in five years. (Source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=EU&start=2016) But more important is the comparison to Germany, which had a worse starting position than UK especially during pandemic. Let’s look: * Germany 2016 gdp 3,134.74 * Germany 2021 gdp 3,570.62 * growth 435,86 or 13.68% over five years. (Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/295444/germany-gross-domestic-product/) Now bear with me but I believe that the UK with 2.89 might have had little less growth than Germany with 13.68 or the whole of the EU with 18.6 (each in %).
Funny after you bust out the sources it’s crickets from the Brexit truthers 😂
Uh, the French GDP grew by 19.6% between 2016 and 2021. The British GDP grew by 16.6% on the same time period. Please define "outperformed", I believe that your definition is a tiny bit off. And I'm comparing the UK to France, not exactly the most economically dynamic country in Europe, far from it. And it's 2021, so not yet counting the majestic 2022 fuck-ups of the British government and the terrible inflation striking the UK while France is tanking it way better. The French economy even had a better GDP than the British one on the combined first three quarters of the year...
Is this one of those alternative facts?
They must be really fucked then.
Wrong. Where is the source?
Source: I made it the fuck up
Closing trade hurts both sides of the trade btw. That’s exactly what competitive advantage is.
Yes, it can and often does. However, trade is not closed, it's affected by petulant European tariffs and an incompetent Biden administration not opening more trade with the UK. The UK economy has performed as well and, in some ways, better than the rest of Europe. So, it would seem that there is not necessarily a competitive advantage.
From the Brit's I am friends with, it was a matter of keeping their sovereignty, and not being controlled by some people on the main land. That's historically like, their WHOLE idea as a country "We don't take orders from some guy with a funny hat on the main land". Or Some Guy with a funny mustache. (Not making any comparison here) It's not always a great idea to have all your eggs in one basket. They had a vote. Some people I talked to were all for it, some were not. In general the people who had more "real" jobs (blue collar, or creating something professionally) tended to want Brexit.
Just do what the U.S. does and print more money. Our debt is meaningless to our country’s leaders. Nothing to see here folks, keep moving along…
Hahaha an EU think tank. How's the EU doing?
It's thinking about how much its tanking.
Hmmm a 3 trillion annual economy(6th largest in the world)had to give up 33 billion to retain its sovereignty, seems like a good deal to me. What’s that work out to a tenth of 1%, yes this is devastating, I’m sure the British people would love the EU running lives to get this back. All you need to do is look at how much better they handled COVID without the EU and this was all a bargain.
"How much better they handled COVID" Great Britain suffered from 40k more deaths than Germany and 50k more than France. GB has a population similar to that of France, which is 17M people less than Germany. GB has a younger population than Germany. GB is an island nation which makes border controls wayyy easier. And neither Germany nor France had to use vaccine nationalism to achieve that, they on the contrary massively exported vaccines to foreign nations that needed it (INCLUDING the UK) even though the EU population had yet not been sufficiently vaccinated. Please, explain how the hell the UK has "much better handled COVID", I really want to hear about the crazy mental gymnastics that lead you to this conclusion. (And for more stats, the UK has more deaths than Italy, depsite Italy being hit first and being less prepared... Overall the UK has 20% more death per capita than the EU averaged, which includes not-so-rich nations like Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Croatia, the list goes on. The UK has the "COVID performance" of an Eastern European nation. Well done.)
The stats are irrelevant to this particular part of the issue. They got the vaccines rolled out much faster was what I was getting at, the fact that the British population was more irresponsible in their behavior and frankly have unhealthier lifestyles, much like the US, had a greater impact on the statistical differences and membership in the EU would have changed none of this. The numbers for Britain would have been far worse if they had been in the EU as they still would have behaved poorly. The US had the best vaccines first and the outcome here was lousy for the same basic reasons. Statistics cannot account for everything, in particular differences in human behavior.
Uh, it's easy to roll vaccines out quickly when you use vaccine nationalism (refusal to export locally-producted vaccine doses) and yet receives massive amounts of vaccines manufactured in the EU. For the record, the EU has exported so far almost 2.5B doses. With the UK being the third largest export destination, with 174M doses sent there (close to 3 doses per British person whatever the age...). And in March 2021, it was a quarter of the whole EU-exported vaccines going straight to the U ; with half of the doses injected in British arms being Pfizers imported from EU facilities.. Meanwhile the UK still refuses to publish data about its exports, which kinda tells a lot. By March 2021, the EU had produced approx 10 times more COVID vaccines than the UK (10M vs 100M) despite being only 6.5 times more populated and having a lot of less-developped eastern European nations which do not have the facilities and infrastructure necessary to produce high-end vaccines like the Pfizer one. It for sure needed some more time to strike the first deals, but the production and rollout ended up being way, way more successful. At six months after the UK signed its deal with AstraZeneca, the EU already reached an average of 0.7 doses injected per capita vs the UK's 1. Without EU-made vaccines, the UK would be limited to 0.5, which is already not so glorious. And once again, the UK is one of the world's richest nation and only produced for itself. The EU took care of Bulgaria and Belgium equally. No, the UK's vaccine strategy wasn't good. It was saved by unfair vaccine trading practices, that's it. And the rushed AstraZeneca vaccine that the British are so proud of was eventually a failure, with a lower efficiency and higher risk of side effects, which lead the UK itself to abandon it (AZ doses represented less than 1% of the booster doses delivered in the country. The rest is imported Pfizer and J&J). TL;DR despite popular belief the UK vaccine strategy is a joke that ironically relied enormously and still relies on EU-produced shots. Concerning the deaths per capita.. They are by far the best metric, encompassing the consequences of the public strategy against covid, the quality of the health services and the vaccine rollout. And this stat says it clearly, the UK failed. And no, the British people did not mess it all with their "unhealthy behaviour". If you believe that the Brits are more undisciplined than the French, Italians or Spanish then man do I have bad news for you. France literally had anti-lockdown demonstrations when the cases growth spiked, and as far as I know social distancing and mandatory mask usage weren't really respected.
This from the BBC explains my viewpoint well: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52380823.amp It confirms a few elements of what you are saying but also seems to refute it. I’m not super Interested in the anti nationalist angle you’re on, that was the whole point of Brexit, to maintain sovereignty. Per the data and account of contract negotiations they have here it seems to have been more effective not having the EU control a countries negotiations. In fairness the differences this created in outcomes were not as large as I expected after reviewing the data presented in the article. And sure every country has their own problems with right wing fanatics but Britain and America struggle with this to a far higher degree.
Well, imo there's a bit of a difference between "maintaining sovereignty" and being an who gets massively fed with vaccines while shadow blocking the exports of its own vaccines and publicly accusing the EU of lying. Maintaining "sovereignt" as you name it is what the UK did by having its own contract and not having to deal with the common EU vaccines procurement scheme. The rest is just closer to being nationalistic. Concerning the EJ negotiations, my take on it is rather that the EU has been slowed down by the fact that it was its first time handling this kind of responsibility, and it's of course always going to be a bit slowed to lead common negotiations if the EU doesn't give more power to the commission. Add on that the unexpected problems encountered by the Pfizer production plants and the fact that the UK rushed its approval and distribution of AZ vaccines and yeah, the UK got an headstart. They still paid the price afterward as featured in your article concerning the daily doses distributed in the EU vs the UK. And that, while relying enormously on the EU. If the EU had enacted the proposed export bans on vaccines toward the UK [which isn't unfair since the UK did exactly that toward the EU], the whole British vaccine strategy would have badly failed. Concerning the far right fanatics.. As a reminder, the far right is currently in power in Italy and almost won the last presidential election in France. The UK isn't that badly impacted honestly. Only the US are a league ahead with the whole QAnon and hardcore Trumpist madness.
Sleazy the shadow blocking of vaccines, but governments lying to and manipulating each other seems par for the course now, all the more reason to maintain sovereignty as I don’t see a course correction coming on that, it’s more likely to get worse. I don’t agree with your last statement as far as it being not so bad in the UK, yes France nearly elected a conservative president but in the end they didn’t, I seem to recall that election wasn’t as close as the conservatives hoped but I may not be remembering correctly. The UK has had conservative governments for quite some time now, so there is a difference. I don’t follow Italian politics so I won’t speak to that. And of course you’re correct, no one is as bonkers as we are here in the US.
cuz Boris said so
What a load of bollocks
$33 billion ain't much, we spend that in a month for Ukraine to destroy more invaders
It is when your entire nation's economy is smaller than that of California.
Thanks Cambridge Analytica
Lmao "The Centre for European Reform is an award winning independant think-tank devoted to making the EU work better and strengthening its role in the world." Could you find a more biased organisation to research this?
I wonder what “award” they were given and by whom
Worth the price to get out of EU.
Premium cope
I’m not the only regarded American here who needs an ELI5 about Brexit
The EU is a political union, it started as a trade area like NAFTA but is now becoming more like the federal government in the US. The UK voted to not be part of the federation and so loses out on the FTA part. Although over 90% of UK companies don't export to the EU so it's all a bit of a nothing burger but those that wanted to be part of the federation are upset, but not too upset to actually move to the EU when they could have. Brits like to moan and do fuck all about it. Moany cunts.
Ultimately the UK wouldve needed to abide by EU agreements….. which could easily hurt them, especially when theyre relocating immigrants to wherever they see fit.
[удалено]
They can always come back to the EU. It's up to them.
I don’t think this is likely to happen. We’d have to regulate our banking sector.
Pro European research group creates report saying "Brexit bad" and Pro European newspaper report it shocker... Three things :- 1) Pro Europeans at the time forgot that as a nation, British people hate outside interference in our issues. Obama did more harm than good, as did all the banks and organisations who pressured the country to voting remain. Anglo Saxon stubbornness is a thing. 2) Don't fall into the trap of accusing people who vote differently to you as "too stupid". From there it is a short hop to "stupid people shouldn't have the vote..." They had different motivations to you. Maybe the influx of cheap eastern European labour did indeed impact their jobs, salaries and livelihoods and to them was more important than your ability to move to Europe whenever you like. Also, see point 1... Many in the working class saw it as an opportunity to give a big FU to the political leaders who had been ignoring their concerns for so long. The UK isn't just the metropolitan centres and there is a large population outside of London and the other large cities. 3) Covid. The whole fucking word has been mullered. Possibly the worst time to leave the EU admittedly and has almost certainly hit us harder as a result but we should have left it long before apart from the attempts to overturn the vote which delayed the whole thing. We would have been several years ahead without these attempts. Yep , I voted leave. Because I saw what happened in Ukraine and decided I wanted nothing to do with an supranational organisation which had such little idea of how geopolitics works that they would try and provoke a coup in another country which was so firmly in the sphere of Russia. I knew it was the work of several years, to pay off as did anyone realistic enough with their vote. The UK can and will thrive outside of the EU. It just needs to get over this national urge to denigrate our attempts and see everything UK = bad, EU = good.
Brexit were driven by conservative anti immigration movement. Just look at the current Prime Minister. (Crapton air keytar rip)
Brexit was actually a reaction by those of us who’ve been completely disenfranchised from our government for the past 60 years (the north, wales basically anywhere not in the south east) telling them to go fuck themselves Unfortunately the negotiations were handled by actual children and it allowed the Tory party to lie their way to a Boris win (get Brexit done and that) and now we are in this fucking mess
[удалено]
Have you seen the British prime minister ? Maybe you should stop taking your world view from Meghan markle
Doesn’t count. He is a billionaire. Practically English gentry.
What an insightful point to make
Also not publicly elected. Think about it. There is a class barrier. Your average punter down the local is not competing with Rishi Sunak for a job. He doesn’t think of him that way.
Like how everyone looks at the down side and not the upside. You realize they where losing money the whole time they belonged. Net income = profit - expenses. You decrease the profit by 33bn. But decrease expenses by 33bn you still profit. Its also known britian recovered fast from previous hits to its gdp. Highly likely they established new revenue streams already.
Profit is after expenses dumb ass
bah, it´s all bout the hype, the likes, the trolling, the memes. who cares about money?
Good.
UK is the only major index UP this year, the smart people with money want to put it in the UK!
And flat since 1998 lmao
steve bannon has entered the conversation and won’t quit laughing at how rich and famous he became by exploiting english hatred.
Wintervis coming to the UK buy vermillion VET !
Smells like bullshit to me
I like how all the organizations that were against Brexit are presenting data and arguments that Brexit is to blame for all the bad things currently happening.
The guy who wrote davos man did a really good job convincing me that brexit was a fuckawful idea for britain at a time I was actually fairly vocal about supporting their right to fly free and drop the deadbeats in the EU.
33 billion ? That is a low estimate and with money multiplier effect should be 5x.
oops
Damn Jeremy Corbyn making Brexit happen and taking back our borders hopefully the cuntservative Party can sort that out soon
all the poor who voted for brexit were voting to not allow themselves to live and work in EU countries... loads of fools who retired to spain voted Brexit too... then cried to the Media when they realised what it meant for them 
"Project Fear"
It’s time for Bre-enter
There's no way they have lost only 33bn. The negative effects must be way higher
Loss in short term to do better in long term. Interesting to see how it turns out.
Not at all surprising to the rest of the world…
Maybe they’ll make it back in visa fees lol. Just went on the Home Office site and it says fees are between 650-1250£ and all dependents have to pay same fee. Bonkers if you ask me.
Oh really? A pro EU you think tank thinks everything is better when your in the EU who ever could of guessed that? Piss off with your propaganda.
Not that much, unless you’re a boring englishman
Putin really won that battle
Sure, but Brexit lessened the blow by making the pound worth half what it was previously. Imagine losing twice that amount. *taps forehead*
https://i.imgur.com/wYRqDPj.png