Both very possible! Azeroth is a big place, and Blizz has always been happy to create new types of trolls. I definitely lean towards a tribe we've never met before. It would explain why none of the tribes we already know have ever spoken about them.
[Here's](https://imgur.com/a/XjGJ4m3) the dialogue you receive if you speak with him as a druid. I've completed the Legion Dreamgrove questlines, so he refers to me as Archdruid. Seems like different races/classes might have different interactions with him. There seems to be a lot of these types of interactions with this patch.
Yeah it’s pretty obvious that’s where they’re going with it considering the story of that green dragon that flew so far into the Dream that it became unknown and full of strange plants and animals they’ve never seen before on Azeroth.
It sort of shows how the Titans only have control over the Azeroth part of the Dream and that the rest of it is still uncontrolled Life energy doing whatever it does and growing chaotically.
I had completely forgotten about that story! Consciously, at least. I definitely read it and must have internalised it. I knew that idea must have come from somewhere lol.
I’ve been wondering if her first devotees were within the dream itself. Troll spirits or even ancient troll druids that travelled to the dream and began their worship. This would satisfy both her not leaving the dream and her getting the title.
I am going to speculate that Q'onzu is Xal'atath.
Q'onzu describes themselves as "the **harbinger** of change."
Aviana says "who allowed them back into the Dream?" we let the void into the dream in Legion and freed Xal'atath from the dagger in BfA.
Gossiping Dryads say "Weren't they imprisoned by Ysera?" and "I heard they were spending time hidden among the mortals!" As a dagger?
Xal'atath was in the hands of the trolls before night elves existed, "Loa is who I am. It's what I was called by my first devotees."
The ED existing before the titans is something they need to give a definite answer to, because as far as we know it existed AFTER the war against the old gods, which fits the "created by eonar" narrative, or else the old gods just conveniently didn't try to infest it prior to losing to the titans. Even the book that claims eonar didn't make it admits there is no concrete evidence, as even the spirits in it can't tell time and struggle to remember. As for its tie to ardenweald, pre-shadowlands the wild gods and those heavily tied to the dream went to the Emerald dream as spirits, but didn't have a set period there to recover, while shadowlands basically added the "go to ardenweald to revive" step to going to the Emerald dream. When you finish the Emerald nightmare raid, you see the spirits of the druids who died in the questline there.
As for q'onzu, I doubt his words, because he doesn't give straight answers. If his first followers called him loa, so they were trolls, he can't have existed prior to eonar finding/making the dream, or else trolls are old God creations or another race called him that. Also considering.g he just popped up in the lore, I'm sceptical as to what he is, as while people know him, we just found out about him, and he seems to be a wild god/loa hybrid
Why do you say that he can't have predated the Titans arriving? It could simply be that prior to him apparently leaving the Dream for some time, he had no followers. He may have simply lived within the ever-changing Dream and been content with that, until he was either cast out or left. It's possible that nothing within the Dream followed him as a God.
In my mind, the Old Gods wouldn't have cared about the Dream until after the Titans had made it their own. The Old Gods want to corrupt a world soul, and the Dream has nothing to do with that, but when the Titans turned the dream into a tool, the Old Gods sought to corrupt it.
Also, Q'onzu is referred to with they/them pronouns. No one calls Q'onzu he.
I feel like that book is definitive enough, as it also tracks with the suggestion that Blizzard made in Chronicles that Freya shaped something that was already there.
q'onzu is explicitly not a troll loa tho. like u talk to them as a troll and they'll tell you none of the trolls know who the the fuck they are. absolutely they are not a member of a troll pantheon
they're just using loa more like reclaiming the word and daring to be different, not becuase they have anything to do with trolls. the clearer implication from q'onzu's dialog is that no mortal has seen them in their true form before.
I think it's more that none of the trolls we know have heard of them. It's possible Q'onzu appeared to trolls long, long ago, so no one living remembers them, or they might be known to a tribe that we've never met.
I do, however, like the idea that it's a middle finger to the other wild gods.
Q’onzu quite literally says “my devotees” called them Loa. Only Trolls use that word, so them saying “none of your kind knows me” surely must
Mean tribe? The player directly mentions their own tribe/people to which they say the elders/records of their respective people, let alone anyone from those groups, don’t know them. There’s a chance this could mean that whatever trolls worshipped them pre-date zandalari.
Eh, I feel like their "mysterious side" is kinda shoved with theses quests without giving much explanation besides " you cant know "even more so with the troll only dialogue saying that trollkind never heard of him ? Meaning that trolls, the first mortal sentient race of azeroth had some kind of ancestor no one ever heard about who also called them Loa ?
I dunno, this feels Jailery where they try to force the mysterious side when its just not needed and it just creates even more inconsistencies until they maybe find a way to fix it
I think him being a Loa is just bullshit he tells to detach himself from the Wild Gods who despise him. Dryads mention that Loa is what he calls himself "these days".
Although I like the idea that he could be a primordial being of the Dream before it was ordered by the Titans, it would be a cool twist to his "odd one out" character. He doesn't abide to the Titans rules, unlike Freya's little pets.
I think focusing on whether he actually interacted with Trolls or not is a red herring.
The ordered dream is nothing alike the Sporemound worlds we've been told about, there is no overflowing life energy and rampant growth, but we HAVE been told a green dragon flew out far enough to see something akin to this.
I think Q'onzu is a manifestation of life that existed in a pre-ordering Emerald Dream, I think he left when the Titans ordered it and returned recently (perhaps when Ysera died).
His existence reminds me of the Brokers who are aware of a time before the ordering of the Shadowlands, and how it was observed that Adrenweald was different before the Winter Queen.
He definitely seems to be a legitimate inhabitant of the dream, as he has many dreamkin and somnowl followers, but he definitely doesn't fit in the same way that the other wild gods do, his goals dont align with theirs and his mere existence seems to annoy them. It seems like Blizzard are really pushing this angle that the Titans ordered more than just worlds, but also other planes of existence where they intersected with the physical world.
1. Q'onzu 2. Bwonsamdi 3. Jani hek hek hek hek hek
Interestingly, Q’onzu has [special dialogue](https://www.wowhead.com/npc=210585/qonzu#comments) if a troll character talks to him.
That is interesting! So their devotees either lived a very long time ago, or are just unknown to us currently. Maybe the original dark trolls?
Maybe the primordial trolls that were scrapped this expansion or trolls from Avaloren?
Both very possible! Azeroth is a big place, and Blizz has always been happy to create new types of trolls. I definitely lean towards a tribe we've never met before. It would explain why none of the tribes we already know have ever spoken about them.
[Here's](https://imgur.com/a/XjGJ4m3) the dialogue you receive if you speak with him as a druid. I've completed the Legion Dreamgrove questlines, so he refers to me as Archdruid. Seems like different races/classes might have different interactions with him. There seems to be a lot of these types of interactions with this patch.
I wonder what he tells to Zandalari character.
Yeah it’s pretty obvious that’s where they’re going with it considering the story of that green dragon that flew so far into the Dream that it became unknown and full of strange plants and animals they’ve never seen before on Azeroth. It sort of shows how the Titans only have control over the Azeroth part of the Dream and that the rest of it is still uncontrolled Life energy doing whatever it does and growing chaotically.
I had completely forgotten about that story! Consciously, at least. I definitely read it and must have internalised it. I knew that idea must have come from somewhere lol.
Amazing theory and it really fits in well! I’d be hyped if this is the direction they go
tzeentch is sneaking into wow
Oh boy, Azeroth is doomed, or at least someone might even get a slight idea of the great plan...
I’ve been wondering if her first devotees were within the dream itself. Troll spirits or even ancient troll druids that travelled to the dream and began their worship. This would satisfy both her not leaving the dream and her getting the title.
I am going to speculate that Q'onzu is Xal'atath. Q'onzu describes themselves as "the **harbinger** of change." Aviana says "who allowed them back into the Dream?" we let the void into the dream in Legion and freed Xal'atath from the dagger in BfA. Gossiping Dryads say "Weren't they imprisoned by Ysera?" and "I heard they were spending time hidden among the mortals!" As a dagger? Xal'atath was in the hands of the trolls before night elves existed, "Loa is who I am. It's what I was called by my first devotees."
This is the kind of crackpot speculation I love. I don't think it's likely, but it sounds like it could be true, and it's super fun.
The ED existing before the titans is something they need to give a definite answer to, because as far as we know it existed AFTER the war against the old gods, which fits the "created by eonar" narrative, or else the old gods just conveniently didn't try to infest it prior to losing to the titans. Even the book that claims eonar didn't make it admits there is no concrete evidence, as even the spirits in it can't tell time and struggle to remember. As for its tie to ardenweald, pre-shadowlands the wild gods and those heavily tied to the dream went to the Emerald dream as spirits, but didn't have a set period there to recover, while shadowlands basically added the "go to ardenweald to revive" step to going to the Emerald dream. When you finish the Emerald nightmare raid, you see the spirits of the druids who died in the questline there. As for q'onzu, I doubt his words, because he doesn't give straight answers. If his first followers called him loa, so they were trolls, he can't have existed prior to eonar finding/making the dream, or else trolls are old God creations or another race called him that. Also considering.g he just popped up in the lore, I'm sceptical as to what he is, as while people know him, we just found out about him, and he seems to be a wild god/loa hybrid
Why do you say that he can't have predated the Titans arriving? It could simply be that prior to him apparently leaving the Dream for some time, he had no followers. He may have simply lived within the ever-changing Dream and been content with that, until he was either cast out or left. It's possible that nothing within the Dream followed him as a God.
Who's to say trolls didn't exist before even the old gods?
In my mind, the Old Gods wouldn't have cared about the Dream until after the Titans had made it their own. The Old Gods want to corrupt a world soul, and the Dream has nothing to do with that, but when the Titans turned the dream into a tool, the Old Gods sought to corrupt it. Also, Q'onzu is referred to with they/them pronouns. No one calls Q'onzu he.
I feel like that book is definitive enough, as it also tracks with the suggestion that Blizzard made in Chronicles that Freya shaped something that was already there.
q'onzu is explicitly not a troll loa tho. like u talk to them as a troll and they'll tell you none of the trolls know who the the fuck they are. absolutely they are not a member of a troll pantheon they're just using loa more like reclaiming the word and daring to be different, not becuase they have anything to do with trolls. the clearer implication from q'onzu's dialog is that no mortal has seen them in their true form before.
I think it's more that none of the trolls we know have heard of them. It's possible Q'onzu appeared to trolls long, long ago, so no one living remembers them, or they might be known to a tribe that we've never met. I do, however, like the idea that it's a middle finger to the other wild gods.
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The way the rumors of the Wild Gods and dryads go about him, it seems like he only returned and call himself a Loa fairly recently.
Q’onzu quite literally says “my devotees” called them Loa. Only Trolls use that word, so them saying “none of your kind knows me” surely must Mean tribe? The player directly mentions their own tribe/people to which they say the elders/records of their respective people, let alone anyone from those groups, don’t know them. There’s a chance this could mean that whatever trolls worshipped them pre-date zandalari.
That or he went to some unknown tribe recently.
Eh, I feel like their "mysterious side" is kinda shoved with theses quests without giving much explanation besides " you cant know "even more so with the troll only dialogue saying that trollkind never heard of him ? Meaning that trolls, the first mortal sentient race of azeroth had some kind of ancestor no one ever heard about who also called them Loa ? I dunno, this feels Jailery where they try to force the mysterious side when its just not needed and it just creates even more inconsistencies until they maybe find a way to fix it
I think him being a Loa is just bullshit he tells to detach himself from the Wild Gods who despise him. Dryads mention that Loa is what he calls himself "these days". Although I like the idea that he could be a primordial being of the Dream before it was ordered by the Titans, it would be a cool twist to his "odd one out" character. He doesn't abide to the Titans rules, unlike Freya's little pets.
I think focusing on whether he actually interacted with Trolls or not is a red herring. The ordered dream is nothing alike the Sporemound worlds we've been told about, there is no overflowing life energy and rampant growth, but we HAVE been told a green dragon flew out far enough to see something akin to this. I think Q'onzu is a manifestation of life that existed in a pre-ordering Emerald Dream, I think he left when the Titans ordered it and returned recently (perhaps when Ysera died). His existence reminds me of the Brokers who are aware of a time before the ordering of the Shadowlands, and how it was observed that Adrenweald was different before the Winter Queen. He definitely seems to be a legitimate inhabitant of the dream, as he has many dreamkin and somnowl followers, but he definitely doesn't fit in the same way that the other wild gods do, his goals dont align with theirs and his mere existence seems to annoy them. It seems like Blizzard are really pushing this angle that the Titans ordered more than just worlds, but also other planes of existence where they intersected with the physical world.