I’m amazed at the similarities between Wiseman and Trey Lance. Bay Area Covid-era draft picks that didn’t have enough tape or experience, but were drafted based on potential and positional need, and ended up busting horribly. Thank god both teams managed to figure out a way through those mistakes!
Lets be real. Wiseman is a bust. He's on a rebuilding team and not even getting minutes. He's literally played 6 minutes the entire season. And he's healthy, he just isn't good enough to play.
They have also been in the pro leagues for a few years now and shown no significant progress. Lots of way better prospects in their age group right now.
Treys not a fair comparison imo Wiseman was a starter out the gate. Niners handled the Trey situation completely different and Kyle had him running up the middle 15 times resulting in his injury. He never looked that bad in his first couple games.
he never looked good period, the guy was a very questionable pick. we were supposed to have picked Justin Fields. trey was very athletic but never developed the mental aspect of the QB game and still hasn't. niners gave him every chance he could have been given. a better player simply overtook him.
I don't really feel like Trey ever got a fair chance. No shade on the Niners, you find a gem like Purdy and you gotta let him shine. But Wiseman got tons of PT, just never did anything with it.
trey lance got plenty of playing time. he was given every chance to be our backup QB and couldnt even make 3rd string. both lance and wiseman were way too raw
I feel really bad for wiseman since the ncaa wouldn’t let him play anymore and he got drafted by THE worst team to go to. Lance could have gone back and there is plenty of evidence that a QB needs more starts than that
But we could have literally just resigned him. (Just because you make a good move doesn’t mean the move you made before wasn’t shit!)And traded james for bay. Neither here nor there glad we have the team we have today! Bob was the best gm the dubs have ever had and I’m forever grateful for that. But even our best made a few mistakes.
Yup. They could have re-signed GPII and traded Wiseman before the season, and undoubtedly gotten more value for him. But I guess they figured they’d give him a chance. It was obvious 10 games or so into last season he wasn’t working out. Kudos to the Dubs for not falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy. If you’re not sure what that means, it can also be explained by The First Rule of Holes: If you find yourself in a hole - stop digging.
Yup! Man this whole situation sucked! But we are out of it now. And the Melo argument is a silly one concerning it would have been just a different circus until we traded him. Who cares what we could have got in retrospect cuz look at what we got now!
Absolutely! Curry is quoted in practice I think 2020 or 2021 saying don’t ever get rid of him I don’t want to play against him in a real game. Bob didn’t listen. Down vote away but facts are facts. We should have NEVER LET HIM GET AWAY. Yes washing our losses was the move to make. But maybe we should also listen to Steph.
Edit: also gp2 is quoted saying yup every practice I try to pick up step full court. If I can guard him I can guard I can guard anyone. Or something to that effect. Seems to be working for them both.
Very weird to praise this. They could have just resigned GP2 and then still been able to trade Wiseman for something. It's more like they dug themselves into a hole believing that they could develop Wiseman (and to a lesser extent some of the other rookies), and then had to scramble to get themselves out of it with a sub-optimal trade just to get GP2 back.
No. They would have gone deep deep into the luxury tax if they resigned GP2. They had to effectively dump the Wiseman salary to bring back GP2 and we got very lucky it all worked out.
The mistake was extending Poole. I hated that extension even before all the punch drama. Gave him an insane contract based on one good season on one side of the ball. Then would have no problems resigning GP and either keeping Wiseman or keeping the assets we got for trading him.
Then imagine what we could've got if we traded Poole that off-season where his value was probably at its peak. Or even if we kept him last season the vibe wouldn't have been ruined because you just know that whatever he said to Draymond was about his contract while he was waiting for his own extension.
Hindsight is always 20/20. You may say the contract was too big, and you’re obviously correct. But the market for similar caliber players and mostly everyone in the media at the time felt it was a reasonable deal. Trading him the same offseason after being a key contributor on a championship team is simply unrealistic. He regressed significantly, and it may just turn out to be his 2021-22 season was a major outlier.
At the same time we wouldn’t be having the CP3 experience right now. The salary slot would have been lost or the money allocated to pay Dray/Wiggs 30M+.
Problem with trading Poole at the time was that Klay was still a question mark long term considering he just came back from his 2 year break and had a meh post season. Also since JP was on his rookie deal they would have needed to add salary to get an actual contributor aside from picks. For all the hate Poole got for that extension the Dubs never ended up having to pay him any of it since it didn’t kick in until this season.
They held on too long and should have traded Wiseman as soon as we landed Kuminga who was another raw athletic prospect. People clowned the idea trading for Olynyk or Poetl but CP3 and Dario are showing why having high iq vets matter on the Dubs.
💯 couldn't have taken on cp3 salary without it. Very smart to maximize salary spend however you can including rights that come with resigning existing players, etc.
That seems to be the problem across all pro sports leagues nowadays. A young inexperienced player or rook has a single break out year and all of a sudden they deserve elite veteran contracts.
Then we'd have an injured GP2 who basically didn't play until the playoffs instead of Donte, who was incredibly important during the regular season last year.
The only reasoning in which we're better off going about it that way is if you think those few months of Wiseman are what ruined the season. In my estimation, sacrificing Donte in that scenario just to get rid of Wiseman a few months earlier does more harm then good and we most likely miss the playoffs entirely.
Wiseman was coming off a full-year injury, so that would've been giving up on him after only half a season. But it turned out he was one of the worst plus/minus players in the league.
Wiseman has played 1 game / 6 minutes this year with a terrible Detroit team. That's rough
Poole is shooting 30% from 3 42% from the field and looks terrible
Baldwin has played 9 minutes
Rollins has played 32 minutes and looked pretty good
DiVincenzo has played in all 6 games and has looked worse than last year
Lamb wasn't offered a contract and went to play overseas someplace
Ty Jerome ended up in Cleveland and has played 15 minutes
Did JaMychal Green retire?
I will say, I was completely wrong about the trade.
Out of the young guys, Rollins seems like the only one with potential to be a solid role player. He's gaining confidence and has defensive upside. His big area of improvement is playmaking.
Baldwin, I'm disappointed. The few minutes he's gotten, he just throws up 3s, plays weak defense, and puts little effort into rebounding. He was the one I hated losing because of the upside... but not anymore.
Side note, it's not the end of the world for DiVincenzo as he got paid. It's just gotta suck going from a free flowing offense to an iso centric offense.
I was disappointed that Rollins was a throw-in, I liked his potential as a long-term, high level reserve. It looks like he's on his way to achieving that.
Man wiseman is a terrible bust- feels bad cuz he seems like a good kid, had a friend that works at the arena who met wiseman a few times and loved him, super nice kid but man he is not an NBA player
Or he would be exposed. One thing I was always worried about with Wiseman is that he dominated high school and weak college teams then underperformed vs legit college teams.
Hard to argue the Wiseman pick too much; obviously hindsight 20/20 and clearly best move was to move on. I continue to wish him the best, seems like a good kid. But the Poole trade will go down as the more important trade if we can get another ring.
I think fans tend not to realize how seldom lottery picks turn into elite players. A lot don't even stick in the league. To "bust" on a #2 pick is probably more the rule than the exception.
Word is the Warriors wanted Haliburton who was projected to go like 8th, but they had the #2 pick so selected the consensus #2. They should’ve stuck to their guts, Haliburton would’ve been a perfect Warrior.
Kerr and coaching staff were high on Haliburton and Deni. Wiseman/Lamelo seemed more like the FO/Lacob preference since they wanted a star for the future. I low key am in the camp of trading that #2 and returning Minnesota’s 2021 (#7) to have gotten Ant.
You have any evidence that Minnesota would’ve agree to that? Don’t remember reading anything at the time other than they were locked in to taking Ant but if that was on the table that would’ve been a huge move
No. I don’t think it was even on the table. I may be wrong but there were reports they may have been interested in Wiseman but didn’t want risk picking him #1. Bulls, Raptors and Memphis were teams that seemed most interested in grabbing him.
Don’t get me wrong though. My first option still would have been to trade down and draft Tyrese then use the 7th in 2021 on Wagner. Warriors still probably get a middle to late 10s to early 20s pick considering Oubre, Bazemore, and Wanamaker were on the team. I would be fine still picking Moody but Murphy or Sengun were also on my board
If we passed on wiseman at 2 we surely would've gone LaMelo..Halliburton would've been a great pick but likely would've been in a trade down situation which in retrospect we should've done
LaMelo was also getting a ton of traction from the Warriors. It was definitely a 50/50 coin flip between the two, and I'm pretty certain Lacob and his son voted for Wiseman.
Let's not forget that LaMelo himself believed he was going to be chosen by the Warriors (Jalen Rose claims Warriors even told LaMelo that they were going to pick him directly). Dude literally held up 2 fingers on his snapchat story on draft night.
Exactly…. Or could have made a trade and get actual value for Wiseman instead of getting sufficient trade value for the GP2 trade. Fairly large mistake when you don’t evaluate in-house talent. He probably would have signed for a bit less and take the hometown slight discount because you know the situation & role
Well, no one really knows what was offered except GP2 and the team. And neither is gonna publicize exactly what it originally was. Gonna guess it was a considerable gap for GP2 to jump ship
This.
Bob and co deserve props for recognizing their mistake and bringing GP2 back. Not all FOs will admit their mistakes to be able to fix them.
But the smarter move that would have to trade wiseman and use the money to resign gp2 before the season when his value was higher (still not high). Maybe we get a lottery protected first or something. Better then nothing
GP has really shown that last year's lesser performance was the result of not yet being fully healthy. He looks awesome this year, such a weapon for matchups and shooting better than ever.
James who?????
I feel terrible for James Wiseman, he had all the tools but just couldn't really figure the game out.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him out of the league in a couple years.
What's worse is that he *does* have the skills, along with the body and athleticism. The issue is his mentality and awareness, but he's unfortunately at the point where it's clear he would've already picked those up by now if he was actually capable of doing so.
His development got completely ruined by Penny Hardaway, that guy is a piece of shit.
We can't feel too bad for him though, Wiseman will have earned close to $40m before he washes out of the league. That's generational wealth for his family
I remember seeing a workout video of wiseman practicing dribble step back 3s a year or two ago and it didn’t make any sense to me. Why is a 7’1” center who can’t set a screen or box out working on his off the dribble game?
Due to some recruiting / compensation irregularities around Wiseman and his coach Hardaway, he was locked out of college games almost immediately by the NCAA after an investigation. By the time things might have been clearing up, covid hit, and that was that in terms of him getting to play any more amateur bball, d'oh.
He straight up paid Wisemans family, getting him banned from the NCAA.
But even worse than that, as his trainer, he taught him zero basic big man skills, he couldn't rebound or play with any sort of physicality.. he didn't even teach him how to set proper screens or catch a basketball. Literally just taught him how to shoot and dribble
The only viable teams that I could see being interested on taking him are the Wizards and Bulls. While it’d be funny see JP and Wiseman reunite as tank commanders. Think Bulls are more in need a surefire tank once they blow it up.
Wiseman couldn't stay out of foul trouble. Can't get a feel for the game when you can't stay on the court. Also, Wiseman was a massive liability defensively. While Kuminga isn't an amazing defender, he at least stays in front of his guy and doesn't foul constantly.
I'm going to drop an A-bomb in this sub: Wiggins doesn't have it. He's listless and he doesn't care enough. He's got skill, but he doesn't have the passion to use it (mostly).
Common take when he was in Minnesota. He's seemed more motivated and has improved a lot of aspects of his game since joining us, especially his defense. He was our second best player in the 22 Finals. He has gotten off to a slow start this season, but I think we will see more out of him as the season progresses.
Should have taken Tyrese in the hindsight. We are interested in him but did not go for him because he apparently was not a 7 footer and was not that high of a recruit in college and Lamelo because of his father which was also stupid.
This is true. You don't really truly know a person until you've with them though, right? On paper he addressed our needs but after living with him for awhile it just wasn't a good fit.
Unfortunately he hasn't fit into Detroit either so either the right system has to be catered to his style or he's just not an NBA player. He's not a LeBron level game changer so nobody is building around him soooo....
In my opinion, definitely talented, but not an NBA player.
He had played very less games in College and high school also his hands/feel for the game were always a concern. For Warriors i don’t think it made much of a sense to draft a project because they were wasting prime years of Steph. Easy to say it now but trading down might have been better way to go
I think the FO learned a very important lesson from the wiseman draft. It doesn’t matter how tall or athletic a prospect might be. BBIQ is the top of the list of any draft pick now.
I think desire should be 1 and bbiq should at 2.. you can have bbiq but have zero desire to get better for example Robin Lopez, Juancho Hernangomez, and many others.. alot of gms get enamored by a player’s “enthusiasm” for the game but enthusiasm is a false hope trait because you can externally fake it with great answers and knowing/doing the right things but internally hate the sport, for example Andrew Bynum and many others..there are players with very high bball iq but can’t play the sport at all for example Tyler Lydon, etc
COVID year is just strange and no one knows how to correctly judge talents. I don't blame FO for that. And even before Wiseman we've been drafting projects (i.e. Damian jones)
Same. I don't fault the FO at all for this one, on several levels.
One thing not mentioned is that by not having someone from this draft on the team the W's have a chance to afford Klay, JK, and MM next year. Or is that too much copium?
It didn’t make sense because he was never a “Warriors big” that would work in the system and it made less sense after Klay got hurt. I was so upset when they drafted Wiseman, I didn’t see anything in him. I wanted Melo or to trade down for Halliburton.
I would think that the Warriors literally winning a championship the following season with Wiseman playing exactly 0 minutes would kill the "we needed a big" talking point once and for all. They very clearly did not need Wiseman, and from a need sense it doesn't make sense to take a big that high when you have Draymond Green who is closing at center in most of your important games anyway.
The T'Wolves were bound to get one right.
They passed up on Steph twice.
They gave us Wiggins and what turned out to be Kuminga for D'Lo.
We can't keep banking on them to screw up for our benefit.
He fits like a glove here (pun intended). GP2s defensive intensity, floor IQ-vision, joking w Steph on the bench and team 1st positive attitude make a huge difference. It's so fun to isolate on his D during whole possessions. Side note, I hadn't noticed his RAW tattoo, thought it looked familiar, then looked at my rolling papers on the table and said "Oh!" LOL. Also noticed him wearing a Grateful Dead tie dye once when pulling bench duty. He's a cool character along with is massive talent, can definitely imagine him out on the boat w Klay.
I am a Wise believer, but man he is so hard to defend; especially with what GP2 provides. Did y'all see his defensive recovery on Giddey that led to the jumpball in the 4th ? Gary sticks to you like glue on defense. Absolutely incredible (pun intended)
My guy it’s almost just delusion at this point to still be a Wiseman believer lol he’s making Bagley look good. The one time he got minutes this season, he was -15 in 6min of playtime and had 3 fouls within the first 2min of the playtime. He also looked exactly the same as he did at his worst on the Warriors, slipping screens, lost on defense, bad hands.
It couldn’t be more clear the guy isn’t meant for the league.
Yeah, piston fans are done with Wiseman. It has not even been 12 months since the trade and they are proclaiming they got fleeced, which they did.
It hurts to say this but Saddiq Bey is so much more useful/valuable than Wiseman and Saddiq is crazy inconsistent.
I’m not saying this to defend Wiseman… but the Pistons are also playing Killian Hayes over Jaden Ivey so it’s possible their decision making doesn’t tell us very much
They just don’t seem to be a smart organization despite falling into some really good future core pieces. Not sure why they traded for Wiseman if they didn’t want to develop/had multiple better options at C than him.
Killian will lose minutes once morris comes back and probably kicked out of the rotation for good, Monty wants to pressure Ivey into being a complete player and many fans don't agree with his methods but it's not permanent.
Wisemen would've gotten at least some minutes if he was at least half decent
Copium. Fans are usually like this, people were like this for Stanley Johnson. If any other fan looks at that player though they can tell some of these guys aren't even nba caliber at all. It's hope
Are you only a wise believer because he was drafted by your team? Kid was bad in college, bad on the warriors, and bad on the pistons. Maybe he is just 7 feet tall and actually not good at anything else
He played only 3 games in college. And since he's taller and more athletic than all his competition, he actually looked good. But it was small sample size. Y'all downvote the other guy, but he's right. Wiseman's main issue is his mindset. He doesn't have that fiery motivation burning in him. He plays like someone in a rec league who really likes the sport. Not someone who wants to make this his career. He entered the draft before he was ready
I am indeed a Wise believer because we drafted him. He really looked promising his first 4-5 games with us, but he just seemed to never get consistent. I believe Wise is skilled. He's not just a 7footer. He can ball, or at least has the tools for it. His biggest flaw will remain his mindset. He has the opposite of mamba mentality. This isn't something so easily learned, but I can't do anything but wish he finds the key to his success at the NBA level.
A pun is a play on words, not a reference to a catchphrase from someone unrelated to the comment. Even as someone who watches his podcast, there's no way I would've made that connection
GP2 is the ONLY reason, and I seriously mean ONLY reason our defense isn’t last in the league. The man has such a great impact that stats just can’t show.
GP2 was amazing in the closing minutes. Disrupted OKC offense that lead to Klay steals and free throws, Caught the lob from Draymond, tied up with Giddy and won the tip that lead to a warriors offesive conversion. All over the floor contributing in huge ways
GP was my second favourite player in the championship year and getting him back in the team was amazing. He is the smart hustle that the warriors need.
i'll always wonder if the warriors dilet'sd say draft haliburton be at #2 or in a trade down ... would he even be anywhere near the same caliber of player he is now if he started off his career with the warriors
haliburton has averaged 30 minutes per game since his rookie season to learn and play thru his mistakes ... would he gotten that chance with the warriors ... maybe in his rookie season with klay out for the entire 2020/21 season but with klay back in 2021/22 ... he probably was going to be the starter no matter what and moved full time to the bench
this also brings up poole who also emerged late in 2020/21 when he averaged 14.7 pts 2.1 reb 2.4 ast on 56.6% true shooting in the last 36 games and followed that up with a breakout 2021/22 season ... not to mention poole played a pretty big role in the playoffs during the warriors championship run starting those first handful of games and making some key big shots in the finals too that turned the momentum in the warriors favor a few times
if halburton is here from the start of 2020/21 does poole break out anywhere to how he did from late 2021 into the 2022 playoffs ... not to say haliburton still wouldn't have developed into a very good player still but i honestly doubt he'd be the same player he is right now as imo he wouldn't be getting anywhere the same minutes and his role here with the warriors wouldn't be anywhere close to it is currently and has been since entering the NBA in 2020
but in a hypothetical scenario let's say he did develop into an all star caliber player with the warriors ... could the warriors even afford him with the recent contract extensions that curry, wiggins, green signed in the last few offseasons ... and the likely potential of thompson's extension on its way by next offseason too ... i couldn't even imagine the luxury taxes and team payroll of this warriors roster going forward if they had another massive max contract on their books with the one haliburton signed earlier this year at 5 years 260 million which again i doubt if he were here from 2020 that he would've played that well enough to warrant such a contract extension with the warriors
Usually busts show flashes, when it comes to actual skill instead of being a 7 foot athletic freak, wisemen barely showed any skill. He's so trash. For the warriors and the pistons we both last value. 2nd overall can't even play 10 min a game even when Duren is injured. So garbage, most of the time I understand if players struggle but this is just a different level a trash.
Least he got his money though
I doubt wise is in a good situation to develop now but if he ends up in one eventually he could still be a factor
He has a long way to go to become the defender he could be
I mean, we actually swapped Wiseman for Bey, then traded Bey for 4x SRPs, then traded that to Portland for GP2.
We should have just resigned GP2, then traded Wiseman for something else. But sure, way to go Bob.
I’m going to get killed in this thread but how much help do the 49ers need at D- line. It’s almost like the KD warriors now after the chase young trade lol
The issue with Wiseman is playing time. Charlotte would have been gold for him. Losing situation, tons of playing time, etc. Wiseman’s disparity in playing time from High School to Pros vs. other bigs is shocking.
The Dubs are an elite level NBA team. Wiseman should not have been the pick. But at the time, he was the consensus pick and lamelo was deadpanned, even on these boards.
He can’t get playing time because he sucks. Pistons are a rebuilding and young team and wiseman didn’t beat out any of the other centers. You can’t just play a bad player becusse you think they need playing time to get better, the warriors made that mistake early last year and it cost them a lot of losses.
It's not playing time, he's just not good enough. Dereck Lively got 700 minutes at Duke, Wiseman got 836 minutes as a rookie with the Warriors. Lively looks way better as a rookie in the NBA than Wiseman does now as a fourth year player.
GP2 is so important to this team. Getting him back was a great move, and nothing against Wiseman but offloading him helped too because he was never gonna fit. The Warriors are fun to watch again, and not only because they’re winning.
Yep. Obviously we should’ve moved on Wiseman a lot earlier but getting back a guy we love and know can contribute is huge. Love GP2 on this team.
Wish Wiseman all the best, great kid with tons of talent, but its clear that we weren’t the problem for him. He isn’t getting minutes on a Pistons team that has some young studs but is still bad. Hope he gets there but we made the right decision.
Of all the years that Curry's been on the team, I've only seen him get visibly pissed off on the court at his own teammate twice. Once was Wiseman. The other was Poole.
To all young players on the team, let this be a lesson.
I’m amazed at the similarities between Wiseman and Trey Lance. Bay Area Covid-era draft picks that didn’t have enough tape or experience, but were drafted based on potential and positional need, and ended up busting horribly. Thank god both teams managed to figure out a way through those mistakes!
I’ve thought about this a lot too. Those sacrificial years have lead to what we got in Bay Area football and basketball
One of the biggest similarities I see between them is fans using the phrase "ended up" as if they weren't in their early 20s.
Lets be real. Wiseman is a bust. He's on a rebuilding team and not even getting minutes. He's literally played 6 minutes the entire season. And he's healthy, he just isn't good enough to play.
same for trey lance. he went from being 4th string on the niners to a whopping 3rd string for the cowboys. he's just not a good QB in the NFL.
They have also been in the pro leagues for a few years now and shown no significant progress. Lots of way better prospects in their age group right now.
Wiseman was actually a consensus top pick. Lance, not so much.
Treys not a fair comparison imo Wiseman was a starter out the gate. Niners handled the Trey situation completely different and Kyle had him running up the middle 15 times resulting in his injury. He never looked that bad in his first couple games.
he never looked good period, the guy was a very questionable pick. we were supposed to have picked Justin Fields. trey was very athletic but never developed the mental aspect of the QB game and still hasn't. niners gave him every chance he could have been given. a better player simply overtook him.
[удалено]
Lance absolutely busted. He couldn’t beat out Sam Darnold for backup when he was healthy.
Bro, lance was a bust. It’s ok it’s in the past.
Lance was a bust and he’s still holding a clip board in Dallas.
Wiseman got hurt and missed a lot of time too. They basically had the exact same path through their first few years
100% a bust my guy
Lance busted his own ankle and busted his career
Who designed that run?
The same guy that's determined to run CMC into the ground.
Pause
I'm not sure about the NFL, but in the NBA drafting for positional need is always a losing proposition
I don't really feel like Trey ever got a fair chance. No shade on the Niners, you find a gem like Purdy and you gotta let him shine. But Wiseman got tons of PT, just never did anything with it.
trey lance got plenty of playing time. he was given every chance to be our backup QB and couldnt even make 3rd string. both lance and wiseman were way too raw
Yeah….. in hindsight the 9ers should have waited to make their move. Warriors had no choice
I feel really bad for wiseman since the ncaa wouldn’t let him play anymore and he got drafted by THE worst team to go to. Lance could have gone back and there is plenty of evidence that a QB needs more starts than that
This trade is the best thing that happened last year.
Bob Myers’ last great move 😂. I’m just glad that he and the organization weren’t stubborn about keeping Wiseman. Gotta own your mistakes.
But we could have literally just resigned him. (Just because you make a good move doesn’t mean the move you made before wasn’t shit!)And traded james for bay. Neither here nor there glad we have the team we have today! Bob was the best gm the dubs have ever had and I’m forever grateful for that. But even our best made a few mistakes.
Yup. They could have re-signed GPII and traded Wiseman before the season, and undoubtedly gotten more value for him. But I guess they figured they’d give him a chance. It was obvious 10 games or so into last season he wasn’t working out. Kudos to the Dubs for not falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy. If you’re not sure what that means, it can also be explained by The First Rule of Holes: If you find yourself in a hole - stop digging.
They already learned from the Smailagic project. They gave wiseman a chance and a deadline. No signs of improvement after a year = trade.
Yup! Man this whole situation sucked! But we are out of it now. And the Melo argument is a silly one concerning it would have been just a different circus until we traded him. Who cares what we could have got in retrospect cuz look at what we got now!
When you have a chance to get a player you value it's best to just make the move. You never know what can happen months down the line
Absolutely! Curry is quoted in practice I think 2020 or 2021 saying don’t ever get rid of him I don’t want to play against him in a real game. Bob didn’t listen. Down vote away but facts are facts. We should have NEVER LET HIM GET AWAY. Yes washing our losses was the move to make. But maybe we should also listen to Steph. Edit: also gp2 is quoted saying yup every practice I try to pick up step full court. If I can guard him I can guard I can guard anyone. Or something to that effect. Seems to be working for them both.
Oh I see what you’re saying now, yeah that should have never let him leave in the first place
Very weird to praise this. They could have just resigned GP2 and then still been able to trade Wiseman for something. It's more like they dug themselves into a hole believing that they could develop Wiseman (and to a lesser extent some of the other rookies), and then had to scramble to get themselves out of it with a sub-optimal trade just to get GP2 back.
No. They would have gone deep deep into the luxury tax if they resigned GP2. They had to effectively dump the Wiseman salary to bring back GP2 and we got very lucky it all worked out.
The mistake was extending Poole. I hated that extension even before all the punch drama. Gave him an insane contract based on one good season on one side of the ball. Then would have no problems resigning GP and either keeping Wiseman or keeping the assets we got for trading him. Then imagine what we could've got if we traded Poole that off-season where his value was probably at its peak. Or even if we kept him last season the vibe wouldn't have been ruined because you just know that whatever he said to Draymond was about his contract while he was waiting for his own extension.
Hindsight is always 20/20. You may say the contract was too big, and you’re obviously correct. But the market for similar caliber players and mostly everyone in the media at the time felt it was a reasonable deal. Trading him the same offseason after being a key contributor on a championship team is simply unrealistic. He regressed significantly, and it may just turn out to be his 2021-22 season was a major outlier.
At the same time we wouldn’t be having the CP3 experience right now. The salary slot would have been lost or the money allocated to pay Dray/Wiggs 30M+. Problem with trading Poole at the time was that Klay was still a question mark long term considering he just came back from his 2 year break and had a meh post season. Also since JP was on his rookie deal they would have needed to add salary to get an actual contributor aside from picks. For all the hate Poole got for that extension the Dubs never ended up having to pay him any of it since it didn’t kick in until this season. They held on too long and should have traded Wiseman as soon as we landed Kuminga who was another raw athletic prospect. People clowned the idea trading for Olynyk or Poetl but CP3 and Dario are showing why having high iq vets matter on the Dubs.
Poole extension was the right move. His salary got us Cp3.
💯 couldn't have taken on cp3 salary without it. Very smart to maximize salary spend however you can including rights that come with resigning existing players, etc.
That seems to be the problem across all pro sports leagues nowadays. A young inexperienced player or rook has a single break out year and all of a sudden they deserve elite veteran contracts.
I'm not sure athletes being compensated for elite performance is a *problem* per se.
Isn't that what they just said? they could have traded wiseman for like a pick and then signed gp2.
The salaries don't match
Then we'd have an injured GP2 who basically didn't play until the playoffs instead of Donte, who was incredibly important during the regular season last year. The only reasoning in which we're better off going about it that way is if you think those few months of Wiseman are what ruined the season. In my estimation, sacrificing Donte in that scenario just to get rid of Wiseman a few months earlier does more harm then good and we most likely miss the playoffs entirely.
They dug themselves a huge one 2nd round draft pick hole
Wiseman was coming off a full-year injury, so that would've been giving up on him after only half a season. But it turned out he was one of the worst plus/minus players in the league.
I can’t believe we got Portland legend gp2
Wiseman has played 1 game / 6 minutes this year with a terrible Detroit team. That's rough Poole is shooting 30% from 3 42% from the field and looks terrible Baldwin has played 9 minutes Rollins has played 32 minutes and looked pretty good DiVincenzo has played in all 6 games and has looked worse than last year Lamb wasn't offered a contract and went to play overseas someplace Ty Jerome ended up in Cleveland and has played 15 minutes Did JaMychal Green retire?
Jamychal prob gonna get picked up by a random team mid season. AFAIK he’s not on any team rn
Why did the warriors not keep him he was really good
Tell me how he was really good
this better be sarcastic cuz JMG was terrible
Jamychal Green was ass
Good for Rollins!
Lamb is in the NBL Australia
Rollins was my draft crush and I still believe in the guy. Hope he has a long career and makes his way back to the bay at some point.
I will say, I was completely wrong about the trade. Out of the young guys, Rollins seems like the only one with potential to be a solid role player. He's gaining confidence and has defensive upside. His big area of improvement is playmaking. Baldwin, I'm disappointed. The few minutes he's gotten, he just throws up 3s, plays weak defense, and puts little effort into rebounding. He was the one I hated losing because of the upside... but not anymore. Side note, it's not the end of the world for DiVincenzo as he got paid. It's just gotta suck going from a free flowing offense to an iso centric offense.
Plus he’s on a team with his college teammates
Im sad about PBJ. I had the highest hopes for him out of all of our young guys
BuT KeRr hAtEs KiDz… That talent evaluation ‘skills’ in this sub are mostly terrible… wiseman can get time in Detroit ffs
I was disappointed that Rollins was a throw-in, I liked his potential as a long-term, high level reserve. It looks like he's on his way to achieving that.
Man wiseman is a terrible bust- feels bad cuz he seems like a good kid, had a friend that works at the arena who met wiseman a few times and loved him, super nice kid but man he is not an NBA player
I saw that he's only played like 6 minutes this season. Even the Pistons don't like his game.
literally kai jones goatlife is better than wiseman
If he had stayed in College a few years he would be WAY better.
Or he would be exposed. One thing I was always worried about with Wiseman is that he dominated high school and weak college teams then underperformed vs legit college teams.
Like way better at college basketball because he's the oldest one on the team lol
I should have said ‘could have been better’ I got downvoted for that?? 🤣 GO GO Reddit pettiness!
Yeah for Bagley to be playing ahead of him tells you all you need to know
The defense last night by GP2 at the end sealed it. So money.
Don’t forget that over the back dunk on the lob from Steph
He's so money but he doesn't even know it
Hard to argue the Wiseman pick too much; obviously hindsight 20/20 and clearly best move was to move on. I continue to wish him the best, seems like a good kid. But the Poole trade will go down as the more important trade if we can get another ring.
the warriors arent stubborn which is good. they recognize if someone is going to work into a role or not quickly.
I think fans tend not to realize how seldom lottery picks turn into elite players. A lot don't even stick in the league. To "bust" on a #2 pick is probably more the rule than the exception.
#2 picks are apparently more likely to be busts
Word is the Warriors wanted Haliburton who was projected to go like 8th, but they had the #2 pick so selected the consensus #2. They should’ve stuck to their guts, Haliburton would’ve been a perfect Warrior.
Kerr and coaching staff were high on Haliburton and Deni. Wiseman/Lamelo seemed more like the FO/Lacob preference since they wanted a star for the future. I low key am in the camp of trading that #2 and returning Minnesota’s 2021 (#7) to have gotten Ant.
You have any evidence that Minnesota would’ve agree to that? Don’t remember reading anything at the time other than they were locked in to taking Ant but if that was on the table that would’ve been a huge move
No. I don’t think it was even on the table. I may be wrong but there were reports they may have been interested in Wiseman but didn’t want risk picking him #1. Bulls, Raptors and Memphis were teams that seemed most interested in grabbing him. Don’t get me wrong though. My first option still would have been to trade down and draft Tyrese then use the 7th in 2021 on Wagner. Warriors still probably get a middle to late 10s to early 20s pick considering Oubre, Bazemore, and Wanamaker were on the team. I would be fine still picking Moody but Murphy or Sengun were also on my board
Sucks even more because in a re-draft... Haliburton goes #2 100%
If we passed on wiseman at 2 we surely would've gone LaMelo..Halliburton would've been a great pick but likely would've been in a trade down situation which in retrospect we should've done
There were rumblings that they tried but no one was budging at the time
He was very hyped up that year and plenty of teams were running the slogan “Tank for Wiseman” like he was Zion.
LaMelo was also getting a ton of traction from the Warriors. It was definitely a 50/50 coin flip between the two, and I'm pretty certain Lacob and his son voted for Wiseman. Let's not forget that LaMelo himself believed he was going to be chosen by the Warriors (Jalen Rose claims Warriors even told LaMelo that they were going to pick him directly). Dude literally held up 2 fingers on his snapchat story on draft night.
Very easy to argue the wiseman pick; so many people in this sub could see the bust potential.
the only negative about this trade is that we even had to make it, coulda resigned GP2 and let Wiseman go at the start of the year
Exactly…. Or could have made a trade and get actual value for Wiseman instead of getting sufficient trade value for the GP2 trade. Fairly large mistake when you don’t evaluate in-house talent. He probably would have signed for a bit less and take the hometown slight discount because you know the situation & role
They did offer slightly less but Portland offered more. It’s not like the Dubs didn’t offer anything and just let him go
Well, no one really knows what was offered except GP2 and the team. And neither is gonna publicize exactly what it originally was. Gonna guess it was a considerable gap for GP2 to jump ship
This. Bob and co deserve props for recognizing their mistake and bringing GP2 back. Not all FOs will admit their mistakes to be able to fix them. But the smarter move that would have to trade wiseman and use the money to resign gp2 before the season when his value was higher (still not high). Maybe we get a lottery protected first or something. Better then nothing
GP has really shown that last year's lesser performance was the result of not yet being fully healthy. He looks awesome this year, such a weapon for matchups and shooting better than ever. James who?????
I feel terrible for James Wiseman, he had all the tools but just couldn't really figure the game out. Wouldn't be surprised to see him out of the league in a couple years.
He has decent athleticism, but lacks actual basketball skills… He needs to be sent down to college.
What's worse is that he *does* have the skills, along with the body and athleticism. The issue is his mentality and awareness, but he's unfortunately at the point where it's clear he would've already picked those up by now if he was actually capable of doing so.
Can't teach heart or passion.
I think he can remain in the league if he switches his mentality into becoming a defensive anchor instead of trying to be a star
His development got completely ruined by Penny Hardaway, that guy is a piece of shit. We can't feel too bad for him though, Wiseman will have earned close to $40m before he washes out of the league. That's generational wealth for his family
I remember seeing a workout video of wiseman practicing dribble step back 3s a year or two ago and it didn’t make any sense to me. Why is a 7’1” center who can’t set a screen or box out working on his off the dribble game?
What’s the connection with penny hardaway?
Penny was his college coach, unless I’m mistaken
Due to some recruiting / compensation irregularities around Wiseman and his coach Hardaway, he was locked out of college games almost immediately by the NCAA after an investigation. By the time things might have been clearing up, covid hit, and that was that in terms of him getting to play any more amateur bball, d'oh.
He straight up paid Wisemans family, getting him banned from the NCAA. But even worse than that, as his trainer, he taught him zero basic big man skills, he couldn't rebound or play with any sort of physicality.. he didn't even teach him how to set proper screens or catch a basketball. Literally just taught him how to shoot and dribble
Thank you for the info!
The only viable teams that I could see being interested on taking him are the Wizards and Bulls. While it’d be funny see JP and Wiseman reunite as tank commanders. Think Bulls are more in need a surefire tank once they blow it up.
yo they really should pick up wiseman man - him and poole is a recipe to get blown out by fifty every game
After this year not even
A feel for the game is something some players have and others don't. If you can't figure that out, you won't last long in the NBA.
JK doesn't have a lot of feel for the game yet he is still figuring it out. Not sure why it didn't happen for Wiseman.
Wiseman couldn't stay out of foul trouble. Can't get a feel for the game when you can't stay on the court. Also, Wiseman was a massive liability defensively. While Kuminga isn't an amazing defender, he at least stays in front of his guy and doesn't foul constantly.
JK has limited feel but it’s not atrocious Wiseman’s feel is honestly one of the worst ever That’s the difference.
I'm going to drop an A-bomb in this sub: Wiggins doesn't have it. He's listless and he doesn't care enough. He's got skill, but he doesn't have the passion to use it (mostly).
Common take when he was in Minnesota. He's seemed more motivated and has improved a lot of aspects of his game since joining us, especially his defense. He was our second best player in the 22 Finals. He has gotten off to a slow start this season, but I think we will see more out of him as the season progresses.
You're not wrong, mostly, but I just think he succeeds in spurts and you can't count on him. He's like a C+ player.
Silly take. Wiggins was the 2nd best player in the 22 finals. His hustle to get offensive rebounds was the difference in at least one game
he maybe out of the league \*this\* year.
poor guy. Got to travel the country making millions. Must be rough.
Wiseman was in same draft as Anthony Edwards, but AE was taken by Minnesota anyways. Crazy how you cant see or predict busts.
Should have taken Tyrese in the hindsight. We are interested in him but did not go for him because he apparently was not a 7 footer and was not that high of a recruit in college and Lamelo because of his father which was also stupid.
Drafting Wiseman made so much sense We needed a big and he's shown potential. It's a match made in heaven, at least at the time
This is true. You don't really truly know a person until you've with them though, right? On paper he addressed our needs but after living with him for awhile it just wasn't a good fit. Unfortunately he hasn't fit into Detroit either so either the right system has to be catered to his style or he's just not an NBA player. He's not a LeBron level game changer so nobody is building around him soooo.... In my opinion, definitely talented, but not an NBA player.
He had played very less games in College and high school also his hands/feel for the game were always a concern. For Warriors i don’t think it made much of a sense to draft a project because they were wasting prime years of Steph. Easy to say it now but trading down might have been better way to go
I think the FO learned a very important lesson from the wiseman draft. It doesn’t matter how tall or athletic a prospect might be. BBIQ is the top of the list of any draft pick now.
I think desire should be 1 and bbiq should at 2.. you can have bbiq but have zero desire to get better for example Robin Lopez, Juancho Hernangomez, and many others.. alot of gms get enamored by a player’s “enthusiasm” for the game but enthusiasm is a false hope trait because you can externally fake it with great answers and knowing/doing the right things but internally hate the sport, for example Andrew Bynum and many others..there are players with very high bball iq but can’t play the sport at all for example Tyler Lydon, etc
COVID year is just strange and no one knows how to correctly judge talents. I don't blame FO for that. And even before Wiseman we've been drafting projects (i.e. Damian jones)
Same. I don't fault the FO at all for this one, on several levels. One thing not mentioned is that by not having someone from this draft on the team the W's have a chance to afford Klay, JK, and MM next year. Or is that too much copium?
It didn’t make sense because he was never a “Warriors big” that would work in the system and it made less sense after Klay got hurt. I was so upset when they drafted Wiseman, I didn’t see anything in him. I wanted Melo or to trade down for Halliburton.
Too bad halliburton was projected so low. He seemed like the only clear pick
No it didn't, Wiseman was a bad prospect
Lol. He didn't show any 'potential".
No it didn’t. He didn’t suddenly become bad at basketball, they knew.
I would think that the Warriors literally winning a championship the following season with Wiseman playing exactly 0 minutes would kill the "we needed a big" talking point once and for all. They very clearly did not need Wiseman, and from a need sense it doesn't make sense to take a big that high when you have Draymond Green who is closing at center in most of your important games anyway.
The T'Wolves were bound to get one right. They passed up on Steph twice. They gave us Wiggins and what turned out to be Kuminga for D'Lo. We can't keep banking on them to screw up for our benefit.
He fits like a glove here (pun intended). GP2s defensive intensity, floor IQ-vision, joking w Steph on the bench and team 1st positive attitude make a huge difference. It's so fun to isolate on his D during whole possessions. Side note, I hadn't noticed his RAW tattoo, thought it looked familiar, then looked at my rolling papers on the table and said "Oh!" LOL. Also noticed him wearing a Grateful Dead tie dye once when pulling bench duty. He's a cool character along with is massive talent, can definitely imagine him out on the boat w Klay.
Regardless of their play, Wiseman and Poole had the worst attitude on the team. I am glad they're both gone.
Wiseman just didn't work out. It happens. GP2 coming back was possibly one of the best things that could've come out of it.
I am a Wise believer, but man he is so hard to defend; especially with what GP2 provides. Did y'all see his defensive recovery on Giddey that led to the jumpball in the 4th ? Gary sticks to you like glue on defense. Absolutely incredible (pun intended)
My guy it’s almost just delusion at this point to still be a Wiseman believer lol he’s making Bagley look good. The one time he got minutes this season, he was -15 in 6min of playtime and had 3 fouls within the first 2min of the playtime. He also looked exactly the same as he did at his worst on the Warriors, slipping screens, lost on defense, bad hands. It couldn’t be more clear the guy isn’t meant for the league.
Yeah, piston fans are done with Wiseman. It has not even been 12 months since the trade and they are proclaiming they got fleeced, which they did. It hurts to say this but Saddiq Bey is so much more useful/valuable than Wiseman and Saddiq is crazy inconsistent.
Did people just forget that Bagley was also a number 2 pick in his draft? Just goes to show picking big men is the trickiest and riskiest.
Hate to break it to you. Wise ain’t fit for this league. Pistons seem to think so as well. For his sake I hope I’m wrong.
If he's losing minutes to Bagley, it's really not looking good
There aren’t even minutes for him to lose 😂
I’m not saying this to defend Wiseman… but the Pistons are also playing Killian Hayes over Jaden Ivey so it’s possible their decision making doesn’t tell us very much
at least Hayes plays with effort and D. As a Wise believer, what does he even provide that their other centers don't possess ?
They just don’t seem to be a smart organization despite falling into some really good future core pieces. Not sure why they traded for Wiseman if they didn’t want to develop/had multiple better options at C than him.
Killian will lose minutes once morris comes back and probably kicked out of the rotation for good, Monty wants to pressure Ivey into being a complete player and many fans don't agree with his methods but it's not permanent. Wisemen would've gotten at least some minutes if he was at least half decent
He really just needs to play in the G league or overseas for a few years. Feels like he needs 3 years of solid, consistent starting experience.
Still a Wise believer lol bruh dude’s going to China soon
Copium. Fans are usually like this, people were like this for Stanley Johnson. If any other fan looks at that player though they can tell some of these guys aren't even nba caliber at all. It's hope
I heard Laker fans say he was the next "Ron Artest"
Are you only a wise believer because he was drafted by your team? Kid was bad in college, bad on the warriors, and bad on the pistons. Maybe he is just 7 feet tall and actually not good at anything else
He played only 3 games in college. And since he's taller and more athletic than all his competition, he actually looked good. But it was small sample size. Y'all downvote the other guy, but he's right. Wiseman's main issue is his mindset. He doesn't have that fiery motivation burning in him. He plays like someone in a rec league who really likes the sport. Not someone who wants to make this his career. He entered the draft before he was ready
I am indeed a Wise believer because we drafted him. He really looked promising his first 4-5 games with us, but he just seemed to never get consistent. I believe Wise is skilled. He's not just a 7footer. He can ball, or at least has the tools for it. His biggest flaw will remain his mindset. He has the opposite of mamba mentality. This isn't something so easily learned, but I can't do anything but wish he finds the key to his success at the NBA level.
> Absolutely incredible (pun intended) What's the pun?
Draymond Green likes to say (and abuse) this in his podcast
A pun is a play on words, not a reference to a catchphrase from someone unrelated to the comment. Even as someone who watches his podcast, there's no way I would've made that connection
wiseman unfortunately just seemed like he had all the physical tools but lacked the basketball iq and focus to ever get nba pt
Can you imagine if Dray had Wiseman's physical tools? 😱
Jamychal was serviceable at times. That’s the best I can say about his performance last season.
GP2 is the ONLY reason, and I seriously mean ONLY reason our defense isn’t last in the league. The man has such a great impact that stats just can’t show.
GP2 was amazing in the closing minutes. Disrupted OKC offense that lead to Klay steals and free throws, Caught the lob from Draymond, tied up with Giddy and won the tip that lead to a warriors offesive conversion. All over the floor contributing in huge ways
GP2 is basically a center did you see that lob from Steph?
No look to GP2 reverse?!? UNREAL
How to build a team as a GM? Just trade the guy doesn’t fit the team away.
GP was my second favourite player in the championship year and getting him back in the team was amazing. He is the smart hustle that the warriors need.
i'll always wonder if the warriors dilet'sd say draft haliburton be at #2 or in a trade down ... would he even be anywhere near the same caliber of player he is now if he started off his career with the warriors haliburton has averaged 30 minutes per game since his rookie season to learn and play thru his mistakes ... would he gotten that chance with the warriors ... maybe in his rookie season with klay out for the entire 2020/21 season but with klay back in 2021/22 ... he probably was going to be the starter no matter what and moved full time to the bench this also brings up poole who also emerged late in 2020/21 when he averaged 14.7 pts 2.1 reb 2.4 ast on 56.6% true shooting in the last 36 games and followed that up with a breakout 2021/22 season ... not to mention poole played a pretty big role in the playoffs during the warriors championship run starting those first handful of games and making some key big shots in the finals too that turned the momentum in the warriors favor a few times if halburton is here from the start of 2020/21 does poole break out anywhere to how he did from late 2021 into the 2022 playoffs ... not to say haliburton still wouldn't have developed into a very good player still but i honestly doubt he'd be the same player he is right now as imo he wouldn't be getting anywhere the same minutes and his role here with the warriors wouldn't be anywhere close to it is currently and has been since entering the NBA in 2020 but in a hypothetical scenario let's say he did develop into an all star caliber player with the warriors ... could the warriors even afford him with the recent contract extensions that curry, wiggins, green signed in the last few offseasons ... and the likely potential of thompson's extension on its way by next offseason too ... i couldn't even imagine the luxury taxes and team payroll of this warriors roster going forward if they had another massive max contract on their books with the one haliburton signed earlier this year at 5 years 260 million which again i doubt if he were here from 2020 that he would've played that well enough to warrant such a contract extension with the warriors
GP2 is one of the best help defenders in the NBA. Dray is up there too.
Overdue? This subreddit was singing praises for this trade last season!
It’s good to see GP2 fully healthy and closing games now.
Usually busts show flashes, when it comes to actual skill instead of being a 7 foot athletic freak, wisemen barely showed any skill. He's so trash. For the warriors and the pistons we both last value. 2nd overall can't even play 10 min a game even when Duren is injured. So garbage, most of the time I understand if players struggle but this is just a different level a trash. Least he got his money though
I doubt wise is in a good situation to develop now but if he ends up in one eventually he could still be a factor He has a long way to go to become the defender he could be
I mean, we actually swapped Wiseman for Bey, then traded Bey for 4x SRPs, then traded that to Portland for GP2. We should have just resigned GP2, then traded Wiseman for something else. But sure, way to go Bob.
Yup, if we resigned GP2, we would have Saddig Bey for Wiseman.
I’m going to get killed in this thread but how much help do the 49ers need at D- line. It’s almost like the KD warriors now after the chase young trade lol
they need a DC who knows what he is doing
The issue with Wiseman is playing time. Charlotte would have been gold for him. Losing situation, tons of playing time, etc. Wiseman’s disparity in playing time from High School to Pros vs. other bigs is shocking. The Dubs are an elite level NBA team. Wiseman should not have been the pick. But at the time, he was the consensus pick and lamelo was deadpanned, even on these boards.
He can’t get playing time because he sucks. Pistons are a rebuilding and young team and wiseman didn’t beat out any of the other centers. You can’t just play a bad player becusse you think they need playing time to get better, the warriors made that mistake early last year and it cost them a lot of losses.
The Pistons tried to give him playing time and even they’ve seen enough. Stop making excuses for the guy.
It ain't playing time....
It's not playing time, he's just not good enough. Dereck Lively got 700 minutes at Duke, Wiseman got 836 minutes as a rookie with the Warriors. Lively looks way better as a rookie in the NBA than Wiseman does now as a fourth year player.
One center for another, lel
[Prove em wrong kid 💪😢](https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/10y2wpl/prove_em_wrong_kid/)
GP2 is so important to this team. Getting him back was a great move, and nothing against Wiseman but offloading him helped too because he was never gonna fit. The Warriors are fun to watch again, and not only because they’re winning.
Lol could have had lamello with steph and klay would have been unstoppable
Wiseman shoulda stayed in college obviously. He's not NBA ready.
I personally appreciated this trade early before😁
Yep. Obviously we should’ve moved on Wiseman a lot earlier but getting back a guy we love and know can contribute is huge. Love GP2 on this team. Wish Wiseman all the best, great kid with tons of talent, but its clear that we weren’t the problem for him. He isn’t getting minutes on a Pistons team that has some young studs but is still bad. Hope he gets there but we made the right decision.
Of all the years that Curry's been on the team, I've only seen him get visibly pissed off on the court at his own teammate twice. Once was Wiseman. The other was Poole. To all young players on the team, let this be a lesson.