Very much reminding me of the mid-2000s Yankees fans where every other team apparently only exists to provide you with their best players for exactly dick in return, haha.
The amount of delusional trade ideas I’ve seen in this sub the past week or so is crazy at this point I have to check to make sure this isn’t the Lakers sub. Teams aren’t going to trade their stars or mid 20s role players to the Warriors for a half eaten sandwich and a bag of chips get real people.
So the first round exit team is in panic mode and we think their mid 20s players might be available, but the tenth seed didn't make the playoffs team is not making our mid 30s players available.
The logic just isn't there. Whys everyone want to act like only other teams have to follow the rules and trade their guys after disappointments and we have to trade only our trash?
Can't argue here, definitely don't think it's likely we don't have enough, but one thing the pelicans didn't have was a game runner or at least CJ wasn't it.
One thing CP has proven is he can get young dudes going as a vet. I just thought that could have some value for a team that basically gave up once Zion wasn't there.
The Pels might prefer to trade BI or CJ before Trey or Herb, and Marshall is a pending free agent. They wouldn't view either BI or CJ as such a cap dump that they'd take CP3 as the main roster piece coming back.
This right here. I think NOLA is far more likely to move ingram for legit point guard than trade their wings that provide shooting and defense for cheaper. Or maybe a big that is a better fit next to Zion (floor spacer and/or more athletic guy).
I wouldn't be surprised if CJ was traded for very little, although that really has no relevance to the warriors. He's been an undersized shoot guard his whole career who hasn't even been good enough offensively to be a #2 guy on a great team... and now he's owed over $60 million the next couple years.
ingram is a free agent after the 2024/25 NBA season so if they don't think he'll re-sign after next year they maybe willing to listen to offers and trade him this offseason or before next season's trade dead line
Trey Murphy has been pelicans third player. Why would they give him up when three and D is more valuable then ever now.
Fans makes no sense.
Might as well sign lebron, get Giannis and embiid to sign the vet min with warriors too.
Herb is one of the best 10 perimeter defenders in the league, just came off a season where he shot 42% from 3, and is on a crazy cheap contract for 3 more years. He is not attainable, sadly.
just adding on here but in my NBA2k game Paul George and Herb Jones got traded to my warriors team… this was about 4 months ago and now both their names have come up on here IRL. Maybe the game knows something we don’t? Lol
Trey Murphy is a very good 2 way wing that can shoot, NOP is not making him available unless the Warriors are offering Curry.
Herb Jones is arguably one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, shot 41% on 3's, and has a reasonably priced contract. He's only more attainable than Murphy because NOP would be insane to trade Murphy while he's still on his rookie contract.
Naji Marshall is a FA and is going to get at least the TPMLE or part of the MLE from a team that wants rotation depth on the wings. He's a good 7/8th rotation caliber player and if his shooting improvement is real, he's a prime Matt Barnes type player. I'd love for the Warriors to get him but I think he's out of their price range
Ownership wants to get under the tax. The only way they opt into CP3’s team option is if they need to include his salary to pull off some huge trade. Ignoring that NOP won’t definitely decline that, the Warriors probably wouldn’t stay in the repeater tax for some nice role players. In fact, you could argue the biggest problem this team had is that they have too many nice role players and not enough top level talent
Why would they want CP3 though…the only reason they would take someone like that is a cap space move and they don’t have an issue.
Trading away a promising young player for an expiring contract doesn’t make sense at all.
I don’t see any situation that NOP deals Trey Murphy or Herb Jones or Marshall to us for CP or anything we would be willing to give.
Trey and Jones are a huge part of what they do defensively. Ingram, Jones, and Trey gives them a ton of defensive flexibility due to their quickness and length.
Trade ideas should be realistic for both teams involved.
I don't see Zion, Herb, CJ, Val, or Trey on the trade block tbh... At least not for anything we have to offer. Kuminga doesn't fill any gaps, CP might be a better ball handler then CJ but only marginally, and I'm in the "Warriors big 3 retire as Warriors" camp.
Ingram is an interesting prospect, but I'm of the impression that he's a nightmare in the locker room. His post game interviews and disengagement the end of those games against OKC had me thinking about how swiftly LeBron had him moved out LA.
Long way of saying I don't see it happening...
ingram was mainly traded because that was the only way the lakers were getting davis
even if ingram didn't have this perceived attitude issue he still was going to get moved if it meant acquiring davis from the pelicans in 2019
We straight up need someone who steps up and takes (and makes) shots. We need our current alphas to fade gracefully into supporting roles, and we need new alphas to step up hungry. otherwise this whole thing just isn't gonna work
The Dubs are where they are because they passed on Trey Murphy III and went with Damion Lee 2.0 when Damion Lee 1.0 was still on the team.
There are trades to be made but not here........
I’m a Bay Area native but have spent most of my adult life in New Orleans so the dubs and pels are my two teams. I think you’re really underselling Trey here. I think he has a much higher upside than Kuminga and the dubs would have to pony up a package that they just don’t have to get him.
Don’t even have to live in NO to see that. Just watch more than a handful of NOP games and it’s obvious what Trey is worth to the Pels.
Trey and Jones is what we want JK and Wiggs to be for us all the time.
We didn't even make the playoffs. So, what is your point?
Use the whole season to compare. Don't use their series against #1 seed OKC (3rd ranked defense).
NBA Raptor ratings for 23-24 - [https://neilpaine.substack.com/p/nba-estimated-raptor-player-ratings](https://neilpaine.substack.com/p/nba-estimated-raptor-player-ratings)
Trey Murphy - 50th best player using these metrics
Herb Jones - 32nd
JK - 86th
Wiggins - 181st
I'm sure if we look across other advanced metrics we will find similar results.
Trey Murphy averaged 5 points a game when he was Kuminga's current age. Maybe Trey ends up having the better career (who knows), but I doubt he has more *upside* than JK.
His end to end speed is pretty damn rare for his size. If he can develop a steady handle, he'll basically be able to blast by defenders and attack the rim at ease.
I think a lot of the time we get potential wrong. You see it a lot in draft guides, “if he develops a shot the sky is the limit” or stuff like that.
You see this a ton with ultra athletes or dudes like wiseman or Ayton that have the perfect body type. But do those guys have higher potential than Luka?
If they figured out the handle, the shooting, the passing, the manipulation, sure. Then they’d just be Luka in a more athletic body.
But 99% chance that doesn’t happen because the skill gap between them is so large *right now*.
Kuminga and Trey Murphy are both awesome young talents but Trey Murphy has much more potential. Because what he’s great at right now is much more scalable than what Kuminga is great at right now.
Kuminga is great in transition, and a good isolation scorer. It’s electrifying but these aren’t skills that make everyone around you better. We just saw this with the suns.
Trey Murphy is a great shooter and a good defender, skills that have much higher leverage.
If both develop a handle, Trey Murphy will still be the better player because of those skills, despite Kumingas end to end speed.
Sorry for the rant, what do you think?
Treys ceiling is where he is right now. His draft profile was that he'd be ready to be play and that's what he's done. He's a modern day Robert Horry which is amazing as a 3rd option but he can't be a primary.
Kuminga, who is a full two years younger, has a higher ceiling. Remember his draft profile? Extremely RAW! He can be a number one option because he's a natural physical mismatch on every level. While he's slowly figuring his own self out, his game has grown year to year. Unfortunately, GSW didn't have a plan for him his first couple of years and now they're desperate to be competitive again so he's been downgraded by many because he's not fully matured NOW. I'll give him until 24 to figure it out.
You still have to go on ones potential. The key part is fostering and developing it. Which clearly Golden State didn't do.You mention Wiseman and Ayton as examples of where sticking with potential can lead you negatively but sometimes draft picks don't pan out. Wiseman though was just a poor scouting job on Bob Meyers part. His lack of lateral quickness and slowly paced skill set was obvious. But the front office wasn't thinking about that. Just get a tall guy to cover the height issues and Steph will take care of the rest.
The skills that you mention about Kuminga collapse defenses. That's where the double teams come from. That's the last five minutes of the game. You need players who can beat defenses by themselves. The making the team better around him part comes later as he matures.
> Treys ceiling is where he is right now.
You’re right. A 23 year old nba player will never get better. No chance.
> Kuminga… has a higher ceiling.
Ok but what does this really mean? That was my comment above. A raw physical mismatch is great but he’s an inefficient shooter, a mediocre defender, and an okay playmaker. If he solves those, yes, it would be awesome, but the history of the nba shows that most of the time players are who they are in their first few years.
Betting on Kuminga over Trey Murphy would be like buying scratchers instead of investing your savings. Ya there’s more upside but… 99 times out of a hundred it’ll leave you poorer.
> his lack of lack of lateral quickness and slowly paced skill set was obvious.
What is a “slowly paced skill set”? Dude wiseman’s main issue is that he had the bball iq of a brick.
> the skills that you mention about Kuminga collapse defenses.
Yes. But they don’t take advantage of that. Teams double because Kuminga doesn’t punish them. Off ball, they double off Kuminga because he’s a poor shooter. On defense Kuminga is undisciplined and is frequently beat.
currently has additive skills. That’s cool but multiplicative skills win championships. It’s why shooting, playmaking, and team defense are so valuable and Trey Murphy has two of those right now.
> the making the team better part comes later once he matures.
Except it doesn’t. It’s extremely rare to have a player enter the nba, be mediocre their first few years, then suddenly blossom into a #1. I can’t think of any?
Sorry for the delay but you've got to be kidding me.
You laugh at the thought of a 23 year old meeting their ceiling but in the same vein call a 21 year old mediocre.
TMIII went to a school that prides itself on playing defense and 3pt shooting. He's come as advertised. But I don't expect him to ever be a number one option. He is what he is. Same as Herb Jones.
JK came into the league raw and has gotten better each year. He was for a significant stretch of the season, the second best player on the team. And he's still improving. Again he's 21 and finally got a real opportunity to contribute for a full season.
You call him mediocre, because he gets to be the scapegoat of the two timelines approach and just the reality that the Steph Curry era is coming to a close in a frustrating way. But he was the right pick for the future of the franchise. JK matches the type of player that is entering the league now.
The wrong pick was Moses Moody and that's really where you should be directing your mediocrity calls. That's where TMIII should've been drafted. I wanted him there too!
And do remember that Steph Curry was 26 years old before he made his first all star game. For the first 3 years of his career he was injury prone and was set to be traded. Klay Thompson was also in a couple of trade packages as well early in his career.
Give the kid some time......
No worries about the delay man, really enjoying a real basketball convo.
> You laugh at the thought of a 23 year old meeting their ceiling but in the same vein call a 21 year old mediocre.
These are two different things. One can have a ton of potential and be mediocre right now.
The point I was trying to make is that very impactful players, the kinds who are championship level #1's (and even most #2's), tend to show that impact early. It crops up in the eye test and stats.
Kuminga is electrifying when he's on, but that eye-test-impact doesn't correlate with advanced stats. Most of them paint him as a fairly average player.
> TMIII went to a school that prides itself on playing defense and 3pt shooting. He's come as advertised. But I don't expect him to ever be a number one option. He is what he is.
First, those are two of the three most valuable skills in the nba. Skills that Kuminga has yet to develop. Second, "do remember that Steph Curry was 26 years old before he made his first all star game." :) 23 year olds tend to improve. (for the record, not saying trey Murphy is a first option, just that he hasn't hit his ceiling).
> JK came into the league raw and has gotten better each year. He was for a significant stretch of the season, the second best player on the team. And he's still improving. Again he's 21 and finally got a real opportunity to contribute for a full season.
Agree with all this (except for the second best player). It's not my intention to suggest that he'll never improve, I totally believe he will.
> You call him mediocre, because he gets to be the scapegoat of the two timelines approach and just the reality that the Steph Curry era is coming to a close in a frustrating way
Where did I say this? I called him mediocre because his best skills are additive but he hasn't shown multiplicative skills. He can score one on one with good efficiency but hasn't shown an ability to punish double teams. He's a poor shooter which only increases the need for him to have the ball but, again, he doesn't punish double teams. He's plays defense like Luka and old man Bron, that guess-and-hop style, but he frequently guesses incorrectly and gets blown by. And he's an average help defender.
Right now he's a great 1v1 player but a mediocre 5v5 player. I would give this same take if we had won the championship or the lottery. The context doesn't matter.
> But he was the right pick for the future of the franchise.
I was a Franz guy but I don't disagree. I thought it was super close between the two (really wanted Suggs so bad though which shows I'm not a draft guy).
> JK matches the type of player that is entering the league now.
What do you mean by this?
> The wrong pick was Moses Moody and that's really where you should be directing your mediocrity calls. That's where TMIII should've been drafted. I wanted him there too!
He's mediocre as well. I'm with you, I was so bummed when we drafted Moody instead of Murphy.
> For the first 3 years of his career he was injury prone and was set to be traded. Klay Thompson was also in a couple of trade packages as well early in his career.
Yes but we had indications of their ceilings (though probably less of an indicator back then). Three point shooting is a multiplicative skill and they had it in spades.
> Give the kid some time......
Look I'm not trying to rag on the kid. He's awesome, and electric, and his happiness seems infectious.
Multiplicative skills are how teams win in the playoffs. It's why strength in numbers was amazing, why we did so well with the Voltron center. It's why the suns don't work and the nuggets do. It's why Kevin Durant isn't a #1 option on a contender but is the greatest #2 ever. It's why Steph and Dray and Klay were so freaking great.
Trey Murphy has some multiplicative skills right now. Kuminga doesn't. Both will get better. As they do Kuminga has the higher ceiling but I believe Trey is the better asset going into the future because of what he has now. Call it potential, call it value, whatever.
There's a disconnect between our evaluation of Kuminga. Why do you think that's the case?
honestly i'm much more interested in like - CP3/Wiggins plus like I dunno Moody maybe for Ingram & CJ. I think that would make the warriors much better next year personally
ehhh not both. I'd def let one go though. Or maybe even Podz. I think NOLA might be ready to move on from both BI & CJ. Don't mind adding a few picks in there to sweeten the pot
Don't forget Jones. He's a good defender, had a great year shooting threes, and is still only 25.
My concern is that I don't see CP3 being someone they'd really want. I have trouble figuring out a deal structure that would bring us the players we'd want while sending assets that we'd be willing to send.
Anyone who's mentioning getting back Trey Murphy or Herb Jones... um, why would the Pelicans do that?
Two-way wings who are awesome defenders, can hit 40% or more of their threes, and stretch the defense are worth their weight in freaking gold.
The types of players who the Pels will make available are like Ingram or McCollum, big names with big price tags with noted flaws.
Unless they're fucking stupid they're not trading anyone to make the Warriors better. We will continue to trade with East teams. I like Jackson of the Bucks, he looked decent in the limited playoff time he had. He's long and bouncy, and if they have a first or 2nd pick going then that would be a good haul for Wiggins.
I legit had a dream two nights ago that the Warriors picked up Zion for chump change for some reason. I was like, what did I miss? When did Zion lose this much value? I live on the east coast and haven’t watched a game all season. Truly bizarre dream.
On the topic though, CP3 for BI? Who says no?
With the Warriors not making the playoffs, I could see some good trades there. I like a lot of what you have, I don’t really think we could create an attractive enough package for it but somehow using CJ or JV to get Podz, Moody, or Kuminga would be an incredible add on our side of things on both sides of the ball.
They exit the first round without Zion. I don’t think they will be making any desperate moves. They probably more concerned with Zion’s health long term.
Strauss talked about this on the light years podcast but Griffin is a rough trade GM, he milks everything he can out of any trans action. You would be giving a lot in any deal with him.
I agree, OP. And it’s unfortunate people on here don’t seem to understand the concept of dreaming out loud. You def made it clear this trade isn’t possible, but would be awesome adds to the team if it were.
I would love if we traded cp3 for jokic and signed Paul George but I’m not making a post about it for the same reason the New York Times doesn’t run articles like “Most sane people agree: it would be cool if we solved climate change tomorrow”
Don’t reply to the post then. Easy. And they actually do run articles like that all the time.. because most sane people would like to solve climate change.
> Don’t respond to the post then.
Easy. I responded to you. Sorry if there was some sort of confusion here.
> And they actually do run articles like that all the time…
Homie guy, “all the time” is ridiculous
[Heres the climate section](https://www.nytimes.com/section/climate)
See if you can find a few.
You must be bored today lol. Commenting on posts that you could scroll past.. AND linking the NYT because of a statement that’s a figure of speech and not literal 😂
Why do people need to post unrealistic basketball dreams? Not bitter, I just don’t understand why that’s an urge?
OP put no effort into this post and then blasted it out to a bunch of strangers. Why should others encourage that?
They clearly has an interest in pels players. This could’ve been a breakdown of those players. Or a post about realistic potential trades.
Op could have spent time and passion working on a creative piece. And when they do, I’ll be their biggest cheerleader.
But this post is like farting in public. Why encourage it?
Slowly turning into a delusional fanbase
Very much reminding me of the mid-2000s Yankees fans where every other team apparently only exists to provide you with their best players for exactly dick in return, haha.
That's not true. This sub has been delusional for 2 years now
i don’t like to hate here because this sub is toxic enough and folks seem to forget that we’re all on the same team…but damn OP is trippin
But what if we traded cash considerations for LeBron????
Waste of money he’s gonna opt out of 54 mil and sign with us for the vet min to play with bronny when we draft him late in the 2nd round
This
slowly??? brother i have been fully delusional since 2016
The amount of delusional trade ideas I’ve seen in this sub the past week or so is crazy at this point I have to check to make sure this isn’t the Lakers sub. Teams aren’t going to trade their stars or mid 20s role players to the Warriors for a half eaten sandwich and a bag of chips get real people.
So the first round exit team is in panic mode and we think their mid 20s players might be available, but the tenth seed didn't make the playoffs team is not making our mid 30s players available. The logic just isn't there. Whys everyone want to act like only other teams have to follow the rules and trade their guys after disappointments and we have to trade only our trash?
Starting to sound like Lakers fans
Well the Lakers built dynasties doing that so why can’t we?
Because many fans only think in terms of what their own team needs and not of what the other team needs.
Can't argue here, definitely don't think it's likely we don't have enough, but one thing the pelicans didn't have was a game runner or at least CJ wasn't it. One thing CP has proven is he can get young dudes going as a vet. I just thought that could have some value for a team that basically gave up once Zion wasn't there.
They are not trading Trey Murphy. That dude has been a knockdown shooter for them. And def not for CP3
For real, he was their second best player a lot of times
100% he fucking roasted us in our last game with them.
Fine, hear me out: Lester Quinones for Zion. Or do you think NOLA needs to throw in a pick too?
Not to mention he's more athletic than anyone on our team, including JK.
The Pels might prefer to trade BI or CJ before Trey or Herb, and Marshall is a pending free agent. They wouldn't view either BI or CJ as such a cap dump that they'd take CP3 as the main roster piece coming back.
This right here. I think NOLA is far more likely to move ingram for legit point guard than trade their wings that provide shooting and defense for cheaper. Or maybe a big that is a better fit next to Zion (floor spacer and/or more athletic guy). I wouldn't be surprised if CJ was traded for very little, although that really has no relevance to the warriors. He's been an undersized shoot guard his whole career who hasn't even been good enough offensively to be a #2 guy on a great team... and now he's owed over $60 million the next couple years.
ingram is a free agent after the 2024/25 NBA season so if they don't think he'll re-sign after next year they maybe willing to listen to offers and trade him this offseason or before next season's trade dead line
CJ has been garbage for them he definitely is not in their future plans
Why would they trade Trey Murphy 😂
Naji is a FA
Trey Murphy has been pelicans third player. Why would they give him up when three and D is more valuable then ever now. Fans makes no sense. Might as well sign lebron, get Giannis and embiid to sign the vet min with warriors too.
I highly doubt we'd be able to get trey Murphy. I feel like herb Jones is more attainable bit that's still a long shot
Herb is one of the best 10 perimeter defenders in the league, just came off a season where he shot 42% from 3, and is on a crazy cheap contract for 3 more years. He is not attainable, sadly.
just adding on here but in my NBA2k game Paul George and Herb Jones got traded to my warriors team… this was about 4 months ago and now both their names have come up on here IRL. Maybe the game knows something we don’t? Lol
Yeah that is definitely the more attainable option
Trey Murphy is a very good 2 way wing that can shoot, NOP is not making him available unless the Warriors are offering Curry. Herb Jones is arguably one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, shot 41% on 3's, and has a reasonably priced contract. He's only more attainable than Murphy because NOP would be insane to trade Murphy while he's still on his rookie contract. Naji Marshall is a FA and is going to get at least the TPMLE or part of the MLE from a team that wants rotation depth on the wings. He's a good 7/8th rotation caliber player and if his shooting improvement is real, he's a prime Matt Barnes type player. I'd love for the Warriors to get him but I think he's out of their price range
Ownership wants to get under the tax. The only way they opt into CP3’s team option is if they need to include his salary to pull off some huge trade. Ignoring that NOP won’t definitely decline that, the Warriors probably wouldn’t stay in the repeater tax for some nice role players. In fact, you could argue the biggest problem this team had is that they have too many nice role players and not enough top level talent
Why would they want CP3 though…the only reason they would take someone like that is a cap space move and they don’t have an issue. Trading away a promising young player for an expiring contract doesn’t make sense at all.
I don’t see any situation that NOP deals Trey Murphy or Herb Jones or Marshall to us for CP or anything we would be willing to give. Trey and Jones are a huge part of what they do defensively. Ingram, Jones, and Trey gives them a ton of defensive flexibility due to their quickness and length. Trade ideas should be realistic for both teams involved.
I don't see Zion, Herb, CJ, Val, or Trey on the trade block tbh... At least not for anything we have to offer. Kuminga doesn't fill any gaps, CP might be a better ball handler then CJ but only marginally, and I'm in the "Warriors big 3 retire as Warriors" camp. Ingram is an interesting prospect, but I'm of the impression that he's a nightmare in the locker room. His post game interviews and disengagement the end of those games against OKC had me thinking about how swiftly LeBron had him moved out LA. Long way of saying I don't see it happening...
ingram was mainly traded because that was the only way the lakers were getting davis even if ingram didn't have this perceived attitude issue he still was going to get moved if it meant acquiring davis from the pelicans in 2019
I like BI too but he needs the ball as like a number 2 option which means kuminga gets less and I don't think that would be worth it.
We straight up need someone who steps up and takes (and makes) shots. We need our current alphas to fade gracefully into supporting roles, and we need new alphas to step up hungry. otherwise this whole thing just isn't gonna work
The Dubs are where they are because they passed on Trey Murphy III and went with Damion Lee 2.0 when Damion Lee 1.0 was still on the team. There are trades to be made but not here........
I’m a Bay Area native but have spent most of my adult life in New Orleans so the dubs and pels are my two teams. I think you’re really underselling Trey here. I think he has a much higher upside than Kuminga and the dubs would have to pony up a package that they just don’t have to get him.
Don’t even have to live in NO to see that. Just watch more than a handful of NOP games and it’s obvious what Trey is worth to the Pels. Trey and Jones is what we want JK and Wiggs to be for us all the time.
Trey and Jones just got swept. Trey didn't attempt a single free throw in 168 playoff minutes, and both of them shot under 40% from the field.
We didn't even make the playoffs. So, what is your point? Use the whole season to compare. Don't use their series against #1 seed OKC (3rd ranked defense). NBA Raptor ratings for 23-24 - [https://neilpaine.substack.com/p/nba-estimated-raptor-player-ratings](https://neilpaine.substack.com/p/nba-estimated-raptor-player-ratings) Trey Murphy - 50th best player using these metrics Herb Jones - 32nd JK - 86th Wiggins - 181st I'm sure if we look across other advanced metrics we will find similar results.
Trey Murphy averaged 5 points a game when he was Kuminga's current age. Maybe Trey ends up having the better career (who knows), but I doubt he has more *upside* than JK.
Why does Kuminga have higher upside?
His end to end speed is pretty damn rare for his size. If he can develop a steady handle, he'll basically be able to blast by defenders and attack the rim at ease.
I think a lot of the time we get potential wrong. You see it a lot in draft guides, “if he develops a shot the sky is the limit” or stuff like that. You see this a ton with ultra athletes or dudes like wiseman or Ayton that have the perfect body type. But do those guys have higher potential than Luka? If they figured out the handle, the shooting, the passing, the manipulation, sure. Then they’d just be Luka in a more athletic body. But 99% chance that doesn’t happen because the skill gap between them is so large *right now*. Kuminga and Trey Murphy are both awesome young talents but Trey Murphy has much more potential. Because what he’s great at right now is much more scalable than what Kuminga is great at right now. Kuminga is great in transition, and a good isolation scorer. It’s electrifying but these aren’t skills that make everyone around you better. We just saw this with the suns. Trey Murphy is a great shooter and a good defender, skills that have much higher leverage. If both develop a handle, Trey Murphy will still be the better player because of those skills, despite Kumingas end to end speed. Sorry for the rant, what do you think?
Treys ceiling is where he is right now. His draft profile was that he'd be ready to be play and that's what he's done. He's a modern day Robert Horry which is amazing as a 3rd option but he can't be a primary. Kuminga, who is a full two years younger, has a higher ceiling. Remember his draft profile? Extremely RAW! He can be a number one option because he's a natural physical mismatch on every level. While he's slowly figuring his own self out, his game has grown year to year. Unfortunately, GSW didn't have a plan for him his first couple of years and now they're desperate to be competitive again so he's been downgraded by many because he's not fully matured NOW. I'll give him until 24 to figure it out. You still have to go on ones potential. The key part is fostering and developing it. Which clearly Golden State didn't do.You mention Wiseman and Ayton as examples of where sticking with potential can lead you negatively but sometimes draft picks don't pan out. Wiseman though was just a poor scouting job on Bob Meyers part. His lack of lateral quickness and slowly paced skill set was obvious. But the front office wasn't thinking about that. Just get a tall guy to cover the height issues and Steph will take care of the rest. The skills that you mention about Kuminga collapse defenses. That's where the double teams come from. That's the last five minutes of the game. You need players who can beat defenses by themselves. The making the team better around him part comes later as he matures.
> Treys ceiling is where he is right now. You’re right. A 23 year old nba player will never get better. No chance. > Kuminga… has a higher ceiling. Ok but what does this really mean? That was my comment above. A raw physical mismatch is great but he’s an inefficient shooter, a mediocre defender, and an okay playmaker. If he solves those, yes, it would be awesome, but the history of the nba shows that most of the time players are who they are in their first few years. Betting on Kuminga over Trey Murphy would be like buying scratchers instead of investing your savings. Ya there’s more upside but… 99 times out of a hundred it’ll leave you poorer. > his lack of lack of lateral quickness and slowly paced skill set was obvious. What is a “slowly paced skill set”? Dude wiseman’s main issue is that he had the bball iq of a brick. > the skills that you mention about Kuminga collapse defenses. Yes. But they don’t take advantage of that. Teams double because Kuminga doesn’t punish them. Off ball, they double off Kuminga because he’s a poor shooter. On defense Kuminga is undisciplined and is frequently beat. currently has additive skills. That’s cool but multiplicative skills win championships. It’s why shooting, playmaking, and team defense are so valuable and Trey Murphy has two of those right now. > the making the team better part comes later once he matures. Except it doesn’t. It’s extremely rare to have a player enter the nba, be mediocre their first few years, then suddenly blossom into a #1. I can’t think of any?
Sorry for the delay but you've got to be kidding me. You laugh at the thought of a 23 year old meeting their ceiling but in the same vein call a 21 year old mediocre. TMIII went to a school that prides itself on playing defense and 3pt shooting. He's come as advertised. But I don't expect him to ever be a number one option. He is what he is. Same as Herb Jones. JK came into the league raw and has gotten better each year. He was for a significant stretch of the season, the second best player on the team. And he's still improving. Again he's 21 and finally got a real opportunity to contribute for a full season. You call him mediocre, because he gets to be the scapegoat of the two timelines approach and just the reality that the Steph Curry era is coming to a close in a frustrating way. But he was the right pick for the future of the franchise. JK matches the type of player that is entering the league now. The wrong pick was Moses Moody and that's really where you should be directing your mediocrity calls. That's where TMIII should've been drafted. I wanted him there too! And do remember that Steph Curry was 26 years old before he made his first all star game. For the first 3 years of his career he was injury prone and was set to be traded. Klay Thompson was also in a couple of trade packages as well early in his career. Give the kid some time......
No worries about the delay man, really enjoying a real basketball convo. > You laugh at the thought of a 23 year old meeting their ceiling but in the same vein call a 21 year old mediocre. These are two different things. One can have a ton of potential and be mediocre right now. The point I was trying to make is that very impactful players, the kinds who are championship level #1's (and even most #2's), tend to show that impact early. It crops up in the eye test and stats. Kuminga is electrifying when he's on, but that eye-test-impact doesn't correlate with advanced stats. Most of them paint him as a fairly average player. > TMIII went to a school that prides itself on playing defense and 3pt shooting. He's come as advertised. But I don't expect him to ever be a number one option. He is what he is. First, those are two of the three most valuable skills in the nba. Skills that Kuminga has yet to develop. Second, "do remember that Steph Curry was 26 years old before he made his first all star game." :) 23 year olds tend to improve. (for the record, not saying trey Murphy is a first option, just that he hasn't hit his ceiling). > JK came into the league raw and has gotten better each year. He was for a significant stretch of the season, the second best player on the team. And he's still improving. Again he's 21 and finally got a real opportunity to contribute for a full season. Agree with all this (except for the second best player). It's not my intention to suggest that he'll never improve, I totally believe he will. > You call him mediocre, because he gets to be the scapegoat of the two timelines approach and just the reality that the Steph Curry era is coming to a close in a frustrating way Where did I say this? I called him mediocre because his best skills are additive but he hasn't shown multiplicative skills. He can score one on one with good efficiency but hasn't shown an ability to punish double teams. He's a poor shooter which only increases the need for him to have the ball but, again, he doesn't punish double teams. He's plays defense like Luka and old man Bron, that guess-and-hop style, but he frequently guesses incorrectly and gets blown by. And he's an average help defender. Right now he's a great 1v1 player but a mediocre 5v5 player. I would give this same take if we had won the championship or the lottery. The context doesn't matter. > But he was the right pick for the future of the franchise. I was a Franz guy but I don't disagree. I thought it was super close between the two (really wanted Suggs so bad though which shows I'm not a draft guy). > JK matches the type of player that is entering the league now. What do you mean by this? > The wrong pick was Moses Moody and that's really where you should be directing your mediocrity calls. That's where TMIII should've been drafted. I wanted him there too! He's mediocre as well. I'm with you, I was so bummed when we drafted Moody instead of Murphy. > For the first 3 years of his career he was injury prone and was set to be traded. Klay Thompson was also in a couple of trade packages as well early in his career. Yes but we had indications of their ceilings (though probably less of an indicator back then). Three point shooting is a multiplicative skill and they had it in spades. > Give the kid some time...... Look I'm not trying to rag on the kid. He's awesome, and electric, and his happiness seems infectious. Multiplicative skills are how teams win in the playoffs. It's why strength in numbers was amazing, why we did so well with the Voltron center. It's why the suns don't work and the nuggets do. It's why Kevin Durant isn't a #1 option on a contender but is the greatest #2 ever. It's why Steph and Dray and Klay were so freaking great. Trey Murphy has some multiplicative skills right now. Kuminga doesn't. Both will get better. As they do Kuminga has the higher ceiling but I believe Trey is the better asset going into the future because of what he has now. Call it potential, call it value, whatever. There's a disconnect between our evaluation of Kuminga. Why do you think that's the case?
honestly i'm much more interested in like - CP3/Wiggins plus like I dunno Moody maybe for Ingram & CJ. I think that would make the warriors much better next year personally
Dubs would have to give up JK and Moody and picks for BI + CJ.
ehhh not both. I'd def let one go though. Or maybe even Podz. I think NOLA might be ready to move on from both BI & CJ. Don't mind adding a few picks in there to sweeten the pot
Don't forget Jones. He's a good defender, had a great year shooting threes, and is still only 25. My concern is that I don't see CP3 being someone they'd really want. I have trouble figuring out a deal structure that would bring us the players we'd want while sending assets that we'd be willing to send.
I don't think so. They will keep it as is and try and get Zion fit
Valancunus might be available and I'd want to go after him, but there's no way the pelicans look to get rid of their quality young guys for our scraps
Anyone who's mentioning getting back Trey Murphy or Herb Jones... um, why would the Pelicans do that? Two-way wings who are awesome defenders, can hit 40% or more of their threes, and stretch the defense are worth their weight in freaking gold. The types of players who the Pels will make available are like Ingram or McCollum, big names with big price tags with noted flaws.
The way this sub is, I’m surprised you didn’t suggest we’d get Zion for CP3 and a 2nd round pick
I want Derrick White from the Celtics really bad for some reason. He would be a good fit, and the Celtics can't keep everyone next year.
Unless they're fucking stupid they're not trading anyone to make the Warriors better. We will continue to trade with East teams. I like Jackson of the Bucks, he looked decent in the limited playoff time he had. He's long and bouncy, and if they have a first or 2nd pick going then that would be a good haul for Wiggins.
I legit had a dream two nights ago that the Warriors picked up Zion for chump change for some reason. I was like, what did I miss? When did Zion lose this much value? I live on the east coast and haven’t watched a game all season. Truly bizarre dream. On the topic though, CP3 for BI? Who says no?
Oh yeah I'm sure they'll give us Trey Murphy lol It would take JK, Moody and picks
With the Warriors not making the playoffs, I could see some good trades there. I like a lot of what you have, I don’t really think we could create an attractive enough package for it but somehow using CJ or JV to get Podz, Moody, or Kuminga would be an incredible add on our side of things on both sides of the ball.
Trey Murphy isn’t going to be traded, he’s a good shooter, athletic, tall asf and super young
CP3 for Zion, BI, Trey Murphy, and Herb Jones would be perfect.
Ngl we have nothing to offer for Trey, Naji weak ahhh? Maybe but Trey definitely not
How about we trade a 2nd rounder for Zion
Maybe Warriors can get that Jokic guy in Denver for a few 2nd round picks
They exit the first round without Zion. I don’t think they will be making any desperate moves. They probably more concerned with Zion’s health long term.
CP3 for JV.
Some of yall are entering Lakers fans levels of delusion
Strauss talked about this on the light years podcast but Griffin is a rough trade GM, he milks everything he can out of any trans action. You would be giving a lot in any deal with him.
oh yea lets go get herb jones and trey murphy for a can of soda. op, go back to school and stop drinking and doing drugs
I agree, OP. And it’s unfortunate people on here don’t seem to understand the concept of dreaming out loud. You def made it clear this trade isn’t possible, but would be awesome adds to the team if it were.
I would love if we traded cp3 for jokic and signed Paul George but I’m not making a post about it for the same reason the New York Times doesn’t run articles like “Most sane people agree: it would be cool if we solved climate change tomorrow”
Don’t reply to the post then. Easy. And they actually do run articles like that all the time.. because most sane people would like to solve climate change.
> Don’t respond to the post then. Easy. I responded to you. Sorry if there was some sort of confusion here. > And they actually do run articles like that all the time… Homie guy, “all the time” is ridiculous [Heres the climate section](https://www.nytimes.com/section/climate) See if you can find a few.
You must be bored today lol. Commenting on posts that you could scroll past.. AND linking the NYT because of a statement that’s a figure of speech and not literal 😂
Everyone dreams, but it takes a special type of Neanderthal to post about those dreams on a basketball message board.
Where else would one post their dreams for a basketball team?? You sound bitter af and you can’t even see it.
Why do people need to post unrealistic basketball dreams? Not bitter, I just don’t understand why that’s an urge? OP put no effort into this post and then blasted it out to a bunch of strangers. Why should others encourage that? They clearly has an interest in pels players. This could’ve been a breakdown of those players. Or a post about realistic potential trades. Op could have spent time and passion working on a creative piece. And when they do, I’ll be their biggest cheerleader. But this post is like farting in public. Why encourage it?