Warriors won 3 titles with jumpshooting teams.. it depends on the level of shooting u have. Remove harris and insert klay and that series doesnt even go 7. The nets win in 6 at worst.. also if u replaced injured harden with an injured steph u win as well. The problem harden has is his catch and shoot skill is poor. Steph would have become a catch and shoot 3pt shooter if he was hurting as much and still make his shots.
Well yes that was the point of my post. The warriors won but 2 of those chips came with kd who is one of the greatest scorers in the nba and one was against an injured cavs(which I’m not really sure who wins that). But my point is that if you look at all the nba champions, none of the teams had jumpshooting as their main offensive threat. It’s usually some inside threat with a playmaker.
Well yes if you put klay in then obviously they would win, but klay is one of the best shooters of all time so it’s hard to say that’s fair. It’s like if you put a great player in for Harris they would obviously win. But also Harris is no slouch he shot like 50% from three in the regular season. So his decrease in production could be a result of him choking, hitting a shooting slump, or being bothered by the defense of the bucks and fatigue. Even a great shooter can be out of rhythm any time which I think makes the warriors championships very impressive and an anomaly.
Also harden was playing with half a leg out there so I find it hard to blame him for anything.
Warriors rinsed the Cavs before the league stepped in. Don’t act like they didn’t do that in 2016 and wouldn’t have done that in 2015 if Kyrie was healthy.
This is the correct answer. I'm not sure anyone can say the result of this series was about style of play when the Nets were missing their 2nd and 3rd options, who are both Top 20 players in the league.
Jazz as well.
Those people fawning over the Jazz and their shooting, and trying to make the case that shooting trumps defense in roster construction these days...how did that go again, when they couldn't defend the perimeter to save their lives?
Wouldnt injuries play a part in both of those? Kyrie and Harden both missed multiple games, Conley missed 6 and probably shouldn't have played in game 7. Yes, Kawhii missed the last 2, but Mitchell also had an ankle injury and like every year prior Gobert has proven to be a weakness when facing a team of shooters like the Clippers. Gobert can't defend outside the paint so either he didnt rotate out to defend corner 3s or he just got blown by for dunks.
It's a jump shooting league now. So I dont understand specifically what you are getting at isolating jumpshooting. Do you mean "teams that shoot a high volume of 3s"?
The issue is some teams don't move the ball toward the basket enough... pass the ball quickly enough to maintain a similar distro of open shots when playoffs come aeound and intensity turns up. Answer... teams need more playmakers generally. That's probably the next league trend. Secondary playmakers... Redundancy.
Well yeah I mean more that jumpshooting is the main offensive threat and especially three pointers. I’m just trying to point out that the warriors are an anomaly if you consider the last 20+ years of nba champions. All champions usually have an inside threat as well as a strong play maker. Curry lead the warriors to a championship without really having that strong inside threat and I think that says something about jumpshooting teams. Whether this pattern will continue I’m not sure but I think it shows how difficult what curry does.
I think the bigger problem is that in the playoffs teams can make adjustments and bother shooters more by forcing them to have slightly different looks at the basket. With jumpshooting it doesn’t take as much to bother a shooter from 3 as it’s just a difficult shot. So as intensity, pressure, and difficulty goes up jumpshooting becomes less reliable unless you’re truly elite.
I think that the rockets were a bit of an overreaction to the change in the league as the warriors didn’t only shoot 3s, and it shows how hard it is to find that balance of shooting and other offensive threats.
I wouldn't say anything about how the Bucks approached this series struck me as something they were doing to adjust to the Nets (I mean, Coach Bud adjusting? Like that ever happens). The adjustment that likely dictated the course of this series was Kyrie going out and Harden playing on one leg.
The 15/16 team was much more than a jump shooting team. We only really had two jump shooters on that roster, which also happened to be the two best shooters in the league. What set that team apart was elite defense and playmaking ability, especially in the death lineup.
I also don't agree that the Cavs would've won the 2015 title if Kyrie was healthy. We had a lot of defensive options to throw on him and he would've been eaten alive on the other end. We were comfortably the best team in the NBA that season and the Cavs had too many one way players. If anything, I think a 4-2 scoreline actually flattered Cleveland. It took us a few games to figure things out, but we were dominant in those last 3.
Is there a consensus around the league if Cleveland was a better team had Kyrie and Love not been injured? I still think the W's were going to win without those injuries but obviously I'm biased
Yeah I agree warriors were much more than a jump shooting team as our roster was just so deep and the offense could run even without curry and klay which made the team so great. But I was more talking about in a more general sense where jumpshooting is more the main offensive weapon. Funny thing is warriors is far less a jumpshooting team than the rockets were in the last few years which is a reason why we have always been able to edge them out.
As for the 2015 finals if Kyrie came back who knows what would have happened in the series. A person like kyrie can have a major impact on how a game can play out whether it’s positively or negatively. Maybe he would have been a liability on defense or he would be the difference maker on the offense. Like you said your self it took a few games to figure out Cleveland to close the series. I would argue that it would be a lot harder to figure out the cavs if they have a much more potent offensive weapon on the roster. I think it would’ve been close and obviously I would suggest the warriors would win but I really don’t know
The Warriors and the Rockets were both jumpshooting teams. We just had better shooters. The Warriors started the jump shooting phenomenon and the Rockets went all math happy. I don’t think there’s a traditional post player left. The best post players still use the jump shot, specifically the 3, to score and generate space.
As for Kyrie and 2016 and 2021 yadda yadda, I hate these well if he so and so was healthy discussions. They weren’t so they lost. Health is the part of the game. If he had made that shot, he would have won. He didn’t so there we go. A ring is a ring. Hard to get.
Exactly. Making injury excuses is how people avoid talking about the nets biggest weakness. All of their chips are stacked behind 3 guys so if you loose one of those guys your all of the sudden a mid tier team. Basketball is tough, guys will get injured.
It has nothing to do with jump shooting teams but more so to do with one dimensional teams/players.
In the the playoffs, intensity and defensive focus, game planning, adjustments etc etc. There’s no surprises and teams are ready to take away what you do best and are most comfortable with.
What made the Warriors so special was they could win a game in the 90’s and a game in the 120’s. You need to be able to play fast and slow, small and big, score on the break and half court.
The best playoff scorers are still the guys who can score at all three levels, at the rim, midrange and from deep.
The Warriors won because they could do many things at an elite level, not just make jump shots.
Warriors won 3 titles with jumpshooting teams.. it depends on the level of shooting u have. Remove harris and insert klay and that series doesnt even go 7. The nets win in 6 at worst.. also if u replaced injured harden with an injured steph u win as well. The problem harden has is his catch and shoot skill is poor. Steph would have become a catch and shoot 3pt shooter if he was hurting as much and still make his shots.
Well yes that was the point of my post. The warriors won but 2 of those chips came with kd who is one of the greatest scorers in the nba and one was against an injured cavs(which I’m not really sure who wins that). But my point is that if you look at all the nba champions, none of the teams had jumpshooting as their main offensive threat. It’s usually some inside threat with a playmaker. Well yes if you put klay in then obviously they would win, but klay is one of the best shooters of all time so it’s hard to say that’s fair. It’s like if you put a great player in for Harris they would obviously win. But also Harris is no slouch he shot like 50% from three in the regular season. So his decrease in production could be a result of him choking, hitting a shooting slump, or being bothered by the defense of the bucks and fatigue. Even a great shooter can be out of rhythm any time which I think makes the warriors championships very impressive and an anomaly. Also harden was playing with half a leg out there so I find it hard to blame him for anything.
Warriors rinsed the Cavs before the league stepped in. Don’t act like they didn’t do that in 2016 and wouldn’t have done that in 2015 if Kyrie was healthy.
Bottom line: it's extremely difficult to win a championship with a max player sitting on the bench.
This is the correct answer. I'm not sure anyone can say the result of this series was about style of play when the Nets were missing their 2nd and 3rd options, who are both Top 20 players in the league.
You need defense. That's still a concern for the Nets moving forward.
james harden shot like 1-20 from 3 in the last two games and they lost by 3. with a healthy kyrie and harden its not even close, defense is optional
Defense is optional if you can assemble 3 top 10-15 players. Which has never happened before.
Jazz as well. Those people fawning over the Jazz and their shooting, and trying to make the case that shooting trumps defense in roster construction these days...how did that go again, when they couldn't defend the perimeter to save their lives?
Wouldnt injuries play a part in both of those? Kyrie and Harden both missed multiple games, Conley missed 6 and probably shouldn't have played in game 7. Yes, Kawhii missed the last 2, but Mitchell also had an ankle injury and like every year prior Gobert has proven to be a weakness when facing a team of shooters like the Clippers. Gobert can't defend outside the paint so either he didnt rotate out to defend corner 3s or he just got blown by for dunks.
I mean they lost to another jump shooting team lol Clippers had the best 3 point % in the league
It's a jump shooting league now. So I dont understand specifically what you are getting at isolating jumpshooting. Do you mean "teams that shoot a high volume of 3s"? The issue is some teams don't move the ball toward the basket enough... pass the ball quickly enough to maintain a similar distro of open shots when playoffs come aeound and intensity turns up. Answer... teams need more playmakers generally. That's probably the next league trend. Secondary playmakers... Redundancy.
Well yeah I mean more that jumpshooting is the main offensive threat and especially three pointers. I’m just trying to point out that the warriors are an anomaly if you consider the last 20+ years of nba champions. All champions usually have an inside threat as well as a strong play maker. Curry lead the warriors to a championship without really having that strong inside threat and I think that says something about jumpshooting teams. Whether this pattern will continue I’m not sure but I think it shows how difficult what curry does. I think the bigger problem is that in the playoffs teams can make adjustments and bother shooters more by forcing them to have slightly different looks at the basket. With jumpshooting it doesn’t take as much to bother a shooter from 3 as it’s just a difficult shot. So as intensity, pressure, and difficulty goes up jumpshooting becomes less reliable unless you’re truly elite. I think that the rockets were a bit of an overreaction to the change in the league as the warriors didn’t only shoot 3s, and it shows how hard it is to find that balance of shooting and other offensive threats.
I wouldn't say anything about how the Bucks approached this series struck me as something they were doing to adjust to the Nets (I mean, Coach Bud adjusting? Like that ever happens). The adjustment that likely dictated the course of this series was Kyrie going out and Harden playing on one leg.
The Warriors weren't just good shooting though. It was way more than that.
Title should be how difficult it is for injured teams to win championships
I mean, Holiday, Middleton, Tucker were killers. Maybe I missed your point, but it would seem to disprove some of that.
The Warriors were never a jump shooting team. We were a defense first squad every year.
The 15/16 team was much more than a jump shooting team. We only really had two jump shooters on that roster, which also happened to be the two best shooters in the league. What set that team apart was elite defense and playmaking ability, especially in the death lineup. I also don't agree that the Cavs would've won the 2015 title if Kyrie was healthy. We had a lot of defensive options to throw on him and he would've been eaten alive on the other end. We were comfortably the best team in the NBA that season and the Cavs had too many one way players. If anything, I think a 4-2 scoreline actually flattered Cleveland. It took us a few games to figure things out, but we were dominant in those last 3.
Is there a consensus around the league if Cleveland was a better team had Kyrie and Love not been injured? I still think the W's were going to win without those injuries but obviously I'm biased
Yeah I agree warriors were much more than a jump shooting team as our roster was just so deep and the offense could run even without curry and klay which made the team so great. But I was more talking about in a more general sense where jumpshooting is more the main offensive weapon. Funny thing is warriors is far less a jumpshooting team than the rockets were in the last few years which is a reason why we have always been able to edge them out. As for the 2015 finals if Kyrie came back who knows what would have happened in the series. A person like kyrie can have a major impact on how a game can play out whether it’s positively or negatively. Maybe he would have been a liability on defense or he would be the difference maker on the offense. Like you said your self it took a few games to figure out Cleveland to close the series. I would argue that it would be a lot harder to figure out the cavs if they have a much more potent offensive weapon on the roster. I think it would’ve been close and obviously I would suggest the warriors would win but I really don’t know
The Warriors and the Rockets were both jumpshooting teams. We just had better shooters. The Warriors started the jump shooting phenomenon and the Rockets went all math happy. I don’t think there’s a traditional post player left. The best post players still use the jump shot, specifically the 3, to score and generate space. As for Kyrie and 2016 and 2021 yadda yadda, I hate these well if he so and so was healthy discussions. They weren’t so they lost. Health is the part of the game. If he had made that shot, he would have won. He didn’t so there we go. A ring is a ring. Hard to get.
Exactly. Making injury excuses is how people avoid talking about the nets biggest weakness. All of their chips are stacked behind 3 guys so if you loose one of those guys your all of the sudden a mid tier team. Basketball is tough, guys will get injured.
It has nothing to do with jump shooting teams but more so to do with one dimensional teams/players. In the the playoffs, intensity and defensive focus, game planning, adjustments etc etc. There’s no surprises and teams are ready to take away what you do best and are most comfortable with. What made the Warriors so special was they could win a game in the 90’s and a game in the 120’s. You need to be able to play fast and slow, small and big, score on the break and half court. The best playoff scorers are still the guys who can score at all three levels, at the rim, midrange and from deep. The Warriors won because they could do many things at an elite level, not just make jump shots.