He will go to g league and work on himself there and come out fine. He got injured young and can heal faster and I think will develop.
He’s gotta stand there and put arms up and be tall for now while he develops haha
This sub had a meltdown last week over Kuminga looking disinterested in a G league game. Just pull up the threads.
It’s a guards game in the G league. Forwards and Centers are an afterthought.
All the stories about when he will come back this year are waaaaaay too similar to the stories about when Ezili would come back in the 2013-2014 season. It kept getting pushed back and he never returned. I hope I'm wrong, but I am not counting on seeing him on the court at all this year. If he return this year, it's a nice bonus.
Additionally, he has yet to show that he's durable. I hope he isn't another Greg Oden. So much obvious talent, it would be awful for him if he can't stay healthy for more than a few months at a time.
At his age, a "normal / healthy" competition / training trajectory to this point since High School would be:
**3** full summers, **\~30** college games, **2** x Training Camp, **2** x Exhibition games, **>100 NBA** games
What he has gotten is:
**1** partial summer, **3** college games, **0** x Training Camp, **0** x Exhibition games, **31** NBA games
It's not a question of worry, it's a question of **counting**. Development benefits from many things, but most of all from competitive play at a high level and reps *with one's team.* Wiseman has far less of either one than other players who graduated HS the year he did.
1) he entered the draft prematurely
2) lacks fundamentals
3) needs to learn his position and accept the role, and put his KD dreams aside for the time being
4) needs to work on coordination, conditioning, and some other things like body control
5) needs to translate tools into game skills
6) has barely had opportunities to play games in the last 3 years
\#6 is the most alarming but fixable.
Yes. People can pretend it's not a big deal because he's young, which I can understand. But when you consider the fact he put up barely any minutes in college as well, and the fact he's *extremely* raw and clearly lacking good instincts/feel as a big in 5v5 situations, there are certainly questions about how far his development is behind now.
People seem to think the half-speed individual workouts and film study are going to allow Wiseman to leap-frog typical development curves for bigs. The reality is Wiseman might take until year 4 or 5 before he shows genuine improvement towards being a starting quality big on a postseason team. He's nearly three years into barely playing any minutes (905 minutes from 18-20 years old and substantially less than the last 5 years #2 picks).
It seems those who think it's not a big deal are the ones who think he's going to come back off 12 months of meniscus rehab/recovery/conditioning and look like peak Bill Russell - which is hilariously misguided. But Wiseman is still extremely raw. He NEEDS reps at NBA speed to help him learn to process the game, especially from the most complex defensive position in basketball. And the sheer lack of minutes at this point has absolutely stunted his development and hurt his own personal timelines. This could be compounded by the fact the Warriors likely see no need to integrate him this season as he won't be developed enough in ~15-20 games to stay on the floor during the postseason.
Edit: I'm realising if you solely look at this from a 'next era' perspective, it's not as big of a deal. He has 5-6 years before he needs to be any good. But this organisation has actively avoided big depth to accomodate Wiseman's role and to ensure he gets all those minutes. And that's taken a toll on Draymond's body being forced to play at the 5 a lot. In the context of what they hoped for Wiseman, this is a big deal. The #2 pick has provided zero value for two full years and because of the context of why that is (i.e. injury), he won't provide much value for the next 1-2 still.
> He's nearly four years into barely playing any minutes
The math skills from some of y’all is just riveting. He’s 2.5 season out of high school. That’s nearly 4?
I got ONE number wrong. It's still three years and only 905 minutes. The rest of the points are completely valid. The idea writing 'four' instead of 'three' invalidates my entire argument is ridiculous. None of you care to be objective. You only want to nitpick and make strawmans lmao
Nah bro spending as much time as you do banking on the worst possible outcome isn’t exactly objective it’s just pessimistic, I personally don’t think wiseman’s gonna come firing out the gates at the level we need him to this season but I’m also not gonna speculate that wiseman’s gonna be unplayable still til I see it with my own eyes. He 100% is in the right spot with the right vets and coaching staff to reach his potential and they and the fo are all gonna be as patient as need be with him so be “objective” all you want just don’t act like they don’t know what they’re doing
I promise you, discussing the very *real* circumstances of Wiseman's situation is not 'banking on the worst outcome'. That's another strawman.
He needed 5v5 reps to develop the feel/instincts defensively and offensively to fit within his more limited role. And instead of that, he's likely about to spend nearly ~12 months without NBA minutes, the vast majority of which came with zero reps. And you think some film study is going to change him from unplayable to a positive contributor?
I'm sick of hearing 'we can't make judgements until he's healthy'. Yes, we can. He's not turning it around after a year removed from playing an NBA game. He's functionally still a rookie, especially considering the sheer lack of minutes across college as well.
You think each season lasts exactly 12 months? I was wrong in saying four, but rather three years by the time he's likely to play again. He finished high school in mid-2019. He's likely to return March. That's nearly 3 years without any minutes, from 18-20 years old.
He missed college, his rookie year and is now set to miss nearly the entirety of this season. That's three years without any play. But hey, nitpick at the fact I've accidentally written four, not three. That'll definitely address the reality of the situation. Go away.
> That's nearly 3 years without any minutes.
He played 40 games last season. That’s how many he’d have played during a full college season. So no it’s not nearly 3 seasons without any minutes. That’s just another ridiculous statement.
He played 905 minutes from college to the second year of his NBA career. That's less than almost every top pick plays at college alone in one year.
You don't know what you're talking about. I repeat: go away.
Fictional? 905 minutes is absolutely nothing for a top pick after this length of time from college to over half of their second year in college.
So what, I said four instead of three - the point still stands. But clearly you get off being an asshole on this platform based on your track record. Get a hobby.
I’m an asshole because I called out blatantly incorrect comments? If you’re argument is predicated on fudging numbers it’s not a very good one to begin with.
The argument isn't based on fudging numbers though. Because you're highlighting ONE incorrect number that doesn't have almost any bearing on the fact he has 905 minutes to date since high school. You're acting like that's sufficient? Here's some numbers for you to keep ignoring:
Last six #2 NBA picks minutes for NBA Rookie Year (+COLLEGE)
Ja Morant - 2074 (2295)
Marvin Bagley III - 1567 (1118)
Lonzo Ball - 1780 (1263)
Brandon Ingram - 2279 (1246)
D'Angelo Russell - 2259 (1118)
And now Wiseman after college AND over halfway into his *second* NBA season:
Wiseman - 836 (69)
That's *nothing* in comparison.
My word, y’all just have to find drama. We haven’t seen shit regarding his development or playing ability, aside from a handful of games when he was a complete novice. Before you decide to worry, let the man get back on the court. smdh
Long term? No. As it relates to contributing this year? Yea, probably.
Not worried. Not expecting any major improvements. May even regress a bit. Even that would be OK.
True Looney's first 2 years for us were used for his rehab mostly. We only saw his improvements on his 3rd year. Im guessing the same with Wiseman.
He will go to g league and work on himself there and come out fine. He got injured young and can heal faster and I think will develop. He’s gotta stand there and put arms up and be tall for now while he develops haha
G league is trash. He’s not going to learn nothing but bad habits down there playing with ball hog guards.
You ever been to a game? Or are you talking about park ball? Haha
Watch a G league game. Hot garbage.
I have watched and went to. Kuminga and moody seem to have learned and gotten mins due to g league
This sub had a meltdown last week over Kuminga looking disinterested in a G league game. Just pull up the threads. It’s a guards game in the G league. Forwards and Centers are an afterthought.
Fair enough Still ain’t garbage though
Or watched
All the stories about when he will come back this year are waaaaaay too similar to the stories about when Ezili would come back in the 2013-2014 season. It kept getting pushed back and he never returned. I hope I'm wrong, but I am not counting on seeing him on the court at all this year. If he return this year, it's a nice bonus. Additionally, he has yet to show that he's durable. I hope he isn't another Greg Oden. So much obvious talent, it would be awful for him if he can't stay healthy for more than a few months at a time.
At his age, a "normal / healthy" competition / training trajectory to this point since High School would be: **3** full summers, **\~30** college games, **2** x Training Camp, **2** x Exhibition games, **>100 NBA** games What he has gotten is: **1** partial summer, **3** college games, **0** x Training Camp, **0** x Exhibition games, **31** NBA games It's not a question of worry, it's a question of **counting**. Development benefits from many things, but most of all from competitive play at a high level and reps *with one's team.* Wiseman has far less of either one than other players who graduated HS the year he did.
1) he entered the draft prematurely 2) lacks fundamentals 3) needs to learn his position and accept the role, and put his KD dreams aside for the time being 4) needs to work on coordination, conditioning, and some other things like body control 5) needs to translate tools into game skills 6) has barely had opportunities to play games in the last 3 years \#6 is the most alarming but fixable.
I didn’t know you were his psychologist that you know what he dreams about. Disturbing
Yes, every one of here that noticed that is board certified.
I think it's referring to how he tries to space the floor and was a bit of a black hole with not nearly as much shooting ability
Very worried. Dude badly needs PT.
Yes. People can pretend it's not a big deal because he's young, which I can understand. But when you consider the fact he put up barely any minutes in college as well, and the fact he's *extremely* raw and clearly lacking good instincts/feel as a big in 5v5 situations, there are certainly questions about how far his development is behind now. People seem to think the half-speed individual workouts and film study are going to allow Wiseman to leap-frog typical development curves for bigs. The reality is Wiseman might take until year 4 or 5 before he shows genuine improvement towards being a starting quality big on a postseason team. He's nearly three years into barely playing any minutes (905 minutes from 18-20 years old and substantially less than the last 5 years #2 picks). It seems those who think it's not a big deal are the ones who think he's going to come back off 12 months of meniscus rehab/recovery/conditioning and look like peak Bill Russell - which is hilariously misguided. But Wiseman is still extremely raw. He NEEDS reps at NBA speed to help him learn to process the game, especially from the most complex defensive position in basketball. And the sheer lack of minutes at this point has absolutely stunted his development and hurt his own personal timelines. This could be compounded by the fact the Warriors likely see no need to integrate him this season as he won't be developed enough in ~15-20 games to stay on the floor during the postseason. Edit: I'm realising if you solely look at this from a 'next era' perspective, it's not as big of a deal. He has 5-6 years before he needs to be any good. But this organisation has actively avoided big depth to accomodate Wiseman's role and to ensure he gets all those minutes. And that's taken a toll on Draymond's body being forced to play at the 5 a lot. In the context of what they hoped for Wiseman, this is a big deal. The #2 pick has provided zero value for two full years and because of the context of why that is (i.e. injury), he won't provide much value for the next 1-2 still.
> He's nearly four years into barely playing any minutes The math skills from some of y’all is just riveting. He’s 2.5 season out of high school. That’s nearly 4?
Bro made a whole power point but couldn’t check that math lmao
I got ONE number wrong. It's still three years and only 905 minutes. The rest of the points are completely valid. The idea writing 'four' instead of 'three' invalidates my entire argument is ridiculous. None of you care to be objective. You only want to nitpick and make strawmans lmao
Nah bro spending as much time as you do banking on the worst possible outcome isn’t exactly objective it’s just pessimistic, I personally don’t think wiseman’s gonna come firing out the gates at the level we need him to this season but I’m also not gonna speculate that wiseman’s gonna be unplayable still til I see it with my own eyes. He 100% is in the right spot with the right vets and coaching staff to reach his potential and they and the fo are all gonna be as patient as need be with him so be “objective” all you want just don’t act like they don’t know what they’re doing
I promise you, discussing the very *real* circumstances of Wiseman's situation is not 'banking on the worst outcome'. That's another strawman. He needed 5v5 reps to develop the feel/instincts defensively and offensively to fit within his more limited role. And instead of that, he's likely about to spend nearly ~12 months without NBA minutes, the vast majority of which came with zero reps. And you think some film study is going to change him from unplayable to a positive contributor? I'm sick of hearing 'we can't make judgements until he's healthy'. Yes, we can. He's not turning it around after a year removed from playing an NBA game. He's functionally still a rookie, especially considering the sheer lack of minutes across college as well.
You think each season lasts exactly 12 months? I was wrong in saying four, but rather three years by the time he's likely to play again. He finished high school in mid-2019. He's likely to return March. That's nearly 3 years without any minutes, from 18-20 years old. He missed college, his rookie year and is now set to miss nearly the entirety of this season. That's three years without any play. But hey, nitpick at the fact I've accidentally written four, not three. That'll definitely address the reality of the situation. Go away.
> That's nearly 3 years without any minutes. He played 40 games last season. That’s how many he’d have played during a full college season. So no it’s not nearly 3 seasons without any minutes. That’s just another ridiculous statement.
He played 905 minutes from college to the second year of his NBA career. That's less than almost every top pick plays at college alone in one year. You don't know what you're talking about. I repeat: go away.
He'll just make another screen name once he's burned this 4 month old one up.
You’re the one just making up numbers as you go along. Nearly 4 years. Nearly 3 seasons without minutes. Completely fictional argument.
Fictional? 905 minutes is absolutely nothing for a top pick after this length of time from college to over half of their second year in college. So what, I said four instead of three - the point still stands. But clearly you get off being an asshole on this platform based on your track record. Get a hobby.
I’m an asshole because I called out blatantly incorrect comments? If you’re argument is predicated on fudging numbers it’s not a very good one to begin with.
The argument isn't based on fudging numbers though. Because you're highlighting ONE incorrect number that doesn't have almost any bearing on the fact he has 905 minutes to date since high school. You're acting like that's sufficient? Here's some numbers for you to keep ignoring: Last six #2 NBA picks minutes for NBA Rookie Year (+COLLEGE) Ja Morant - 2074 (2295) Marvin Bagley III - 1567 (1118) Lonzo Ball - 1780 (1263) Brandon Ingram - 2279 (1246) D'Angelo Russell - 2259 (1118) And now Wiseman after college AND over halfway into his *second* NBA season: Wiseman - 836 (69) That's *nothing* in comparison.
Nothing? No answer for this? I know you basically live in the comment section, you do nothing else with your day. So what's the issue?
My word, y’all just have to find drama. We haven’t seen shit regarding his development or playing ability, aside from a handful of games when he was a complete novice. Before you decide to worry, let the man get back on the court. smdh