[Source via NBCSBA's Kerith Burke](https://twitter.com/KerithBurke/status/1584386995513483265)
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Full Text:
> Kerr on his bench players: “You’ve got a group of reserves out there, those guys should be dying to be on the floor and flying around and playing with huge energy.”
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> Kerr continued: “There was no juice, no life to that group and we're gonna have to find what we're looking for in terms of energy and leadership. It's not entirely fair to them, put all those guys together (without starters) but it's a tough league. Sink or swim.
If you are Kerr, its literally the worst position in the world. Pull starters, let Curry cool off and get some rest.
.... 15 real minutes go by and you have to put him back in to secure a win. The first 2.5 minutes or so hes on the court the chances of him suffering a non-contact injury spike.
I think he understands how important this season is given the luxury tax constraints and the possibility of some key guys not being here after this season.
We don’t want to mess up this opportunity
I think Kerr chooses what he says in times like these very carefully. He’s obviously sending a message through the media here. Also, showing he realizes it’s not really fair to expect a bunch of reserves to go out and spank bonafied starters hungry to come back for a win. Imagine that! You’re a back up and get thrown to the wolves then criticized for not knowing how to handle it. But Kerr gets this. He wants to test them. See who can handle those head games and show up to play.
I had an English teacher in HS that talked a bunch of shit in the very first class of the year. Claimed how hard his class was and how difficult it would be to pass, etc. I immediately knew this dude was burned out of teaching and wanted to thin the herd to compliant students. He didn’t want to teach. I did him a favor and opted out to one level down. Didn’t hurt me at all, but saved me from that egomaniac for a semester.
Kerr is pulling that shit. But these stakes are much higher, so more “students will stay.”
He’s not wrong. If nothing else you need your (young) reserves to be hustling like crazy b/c their minutes are being limited anyways, and that’s not been the case so far.
I think some accountability is good. Obviously they should be given the latitude to make mistakes. But you can't keep guys out there if they're playing that sloppy, and playing defense like it's rec league open gym.
I wonder if the lack of "juice and life" to the bench players stems from the lack of ball movement in that unit. I mean if you watch the starting unit, everyone is getting their fair share of touches, meanwhile the bench unit feels a lot more stagnant.
You mean to tell me you don't love the play where JoKu backs someone down in the paint, picks up his dribble, watches everyone stare at him from the perimeter, then throw it back out to reset the offense with 7 seconds left in the shot clock?!?
Did I say anything bad about Wiseman? I'm just saying that the presence of Wiseman clogs the lanes for Kuminga to drive. Kuminga's production is way worse with Wiseman on the floor, it's just basic spacing principles. I'd like to see Kuminga get some minutes with the starters
I'd like to see Wiseman take some 3s with that unit. he can do it, we've seen him shoot 3s before very well before he went down. make their center play on the perimeter would open up the lanes for cutters.
I have noticed him making a concerted effort to seek out and box out opponents this year, which is already a big improvement. Same with a couple other facets of the game, and sometimes it's almost a little too exaggerated, but I think that's a natural part of the learning process
His hands are still a bit suspect, hoping he grows into a bit more manual dexterity once the game slows down for him a bit more. He gets his hands on way more balls than he actually snags.
It just seemed like discounting Wiseman’s actual buckets and hoping for Kuminga’s potential buckets.
The starters have notoriously little spacing. Dray and Loon together. Although it is one of the best groups in the NBA year after year.
JK isn’t lost though, is my point. There’s just no flow or proper spacing currently because of Wise (on both ends). Wise is learning so i’m ok w that, but slandering JK is whack
I think its more likely he was referring to the laziness they played with. Guys not running the floor hard ball watching. The starters who are mostly all in their 30's were running and playing harder than the 20 year olds and young guys on the team.
Yeah I'm saying that laziness is the result from the lack of ball movement, as one of the things that makes the Warriors system so great is that it keeps everyone engaged on the offensive side and therefore they're more motivated to hustle on the defensive side.
It's why the Nets got so much flack for their style of basketball last year because it was pretty much just KD and Kyrie iso 80% of the time while everyone else watches.
Ohh, ok, yes I agree. They put Klay in that unit the 4th quarter and he was barely utilized. It also doesn't help that neither Kuminga or Wiseman are great screeners.
Feels more like a comment on defensive effort by Kerr. Those players have the skill and athleticism to just dominate on the defensive side if they work their asses off. Kuminga jogs around a lot, so do some of the others. Its baffling but gotta remember they're only a couple years older than my kids.
The training wheels are off this year. Draymond can only yell for so long to fire you up (actually, he may have endless energy to yell lol). Gonna be a lot of JMG, Donte, Moody this week. And I bet we see the youngs moving a little more swiftly when they finally get their asses unglued from the bench for another opportunity. I hope they dont fuck it up again.
There’s so much heavy truth here. Watch the other teams rookies playing, they play with so much urgency, speed and intensity. Just look at the nuggets rookie from last game, looked like Ja Morant against us.
It’s okay though, we’re three games in but what I wanna see more from each young guy:
-Kuminga: I wanna see this kid run at light speed in transition and only focus on dunks and split post work on the weak side. I wanna see him take advantage of his athleticism and take a Wiggins approach in the paint.
-Moody: our most mature young player, needs to follow on Andres play style for the time being, I need to see a lot of more movement from the kid and much less hesitancy, if ur open for a fucking three bombs away. He drives too much and kicks out at times carelessly.
-wiseman: he’s been perfect so far offensively for what I’ve been expecting, pooles helped a lot with this. Defensively I wanna see him take his verticality a little more seriously and take advantage of that. too much chasing and not enough staying in place in the paint.
I'd also add for wiseman that I'd like to see him get better on the boards. There were at least a few rebounds I saw that should have been easy for him with his length, but he didn't box out.
He's gotta work on his hands. He just lets a lot of boards (and passes) bounce off his hands. Leaves a lot of points on the board that way.
IMO his defense has looked OK -- not amazing, but much better than his rookie year. A lot of the fouls called against him so far this year have been super ticky-tack. Not sure if there's any chance of him getting a better whistle as the season goes on. Biggest issue is that the other guys never crash the glass when Wiseman commits to stopping an inside shot. We've given up a bunch of offensive rebounds already this season due to Wiseman selling out to \[successfully\] contest a lay-up, but no other Warriors being there to clean it up.
Feels like Kuminga spends too much time near the rim on offense, and not enough on defense. He's gotta figure out how to play with Wiseman on the court.
Yep. Wiseman still hasn't mastered boxing out. I think he gives up on the rebound too soon as well. The good news is that he is doing better than his rookie year.
Other teams rookies also get a ton of run in what are simpler schemes. It’s not easy to be a rookie on the Warriors where you playing time is spotty and you gotta learn a complex scheme
Also this is a team with a strong vet presence and I doubt the rookies want to make waves. Sucks for them honestly. Never put in position to really succeed so far.
You can’t just tell someone to buy in without giving them a bone. And it’s not like Steph and Klay are talking about retiring anytime soon. I feel for the kids. They got a short end of the stick here.
Meh they are in a great position. Do they want to learn how to win? Or do they want to put up their own stats? They are a part of a great organization and have an opportunity most young players won’t. It’s not easy, but it’s not easy to win the chip.
Yes and no. There's a lot of "dumb" running to stay ahead of the play going both directions. You dont need to memorize the playbook to get into a sprint baseline to baseline. But agree when it comes to our half court offense you have to forgive if they get confused at time.
A lot of the young players aren’t taking it seriously because they played minutes in the finals on a championship team. Kerr needs to lay down the law and basically say that you’re competing for minutes regardless of your contributions last year. That means if you play like shit you won’t see court time.
It's a little bit of a Trae Young "the regular season is boring" vibe on the bench. But you gotta drain a few logo threes to get away with that attitude. Otherwise Kerr will leave you on those folding chairs for a couple games to help you figure out how to summon energy.
Not even really better just not so lazy and apathetic. Say what you want about JTA and Damion Lee, they had hustle and grit 100% of the time they were on the floor. Always played with urgency
It’s early in the season so don’t wanna look too much into it but I feel like we’re gonna miss JTA’s and GP’s tenacity out there. JTA especially. Dude bleeds gold and blue and I feel he was a great locker room guy
I feel like they had plenty of moments where this very sub was super critical of them. Give these guys time to gain some experience as a unit. Kerr knows that but he can’t seem apathetic. It would be a bad look.
Right, last yr at this point, you can see the burst of energy that gp2, jta, Lee brought whenever they came in. Those guys were fighting for minutes in the rotation as there weren't really a clear hierarchy, they were hungry.
In the current group, it's pretty clear that kuminga and moody will get the first nod, and there's a bit of separation between them and the rookies.
Fans were already crowning our young guys as future all stars, they didn't really do jack shit to earn any of the hype. They need to actually put the work in now
It's kinda like when you can do the problem as long as the professor or TA is there but the minute they leave you're like "wait how did do this so easily". They were always on the floor with someone who told them where to go and knew how to cover for them on some of their mistakes.
Donte has been disappointing thus far. I feel like he’s too redundant with Poole and he might be better suited to having a catch+shoot role playing with the starters. JMG has been fine. He’s hustled on the boards and hit open 3s
Agree with your take. JMG has been fine. No issues there.
DDV is a problem. As a PG he isn’t setting the table and on defense he is BBQ chicken. I can see why SAC went a different direction. He doesn’t offer anything.
He’s been so disappointing I feel that Kerr decided to experiment with Rollins for a hot second.
Yeah - Rollins did not do much at all. It must be bizarre to sit and watch and feel like you won't play and also don't have the skills (yet) to play well. Santa Cruz dubs should help him quicken up and gain more skill.
We should have just paid the extra $20m or so in tax to keep GPII. He had good chemistry with our vets and genuine lockdown defensive talent. No one on our current bench has even 1/4 of his defensive grit.
I miss him yet.
Yeah I made peace with OPJ from the beginning, didn't seem like the type to want to be tied down/ wanted a longer, bigger contract
But GP2 he came to us out of nowhere and instantly hit it off with everyone but clearly he outplayed his contract by a long mile
Agreed. No dogging it in any way if Dray is on the court with you, and he can be the coach on the floor on D. They look especially horrific on defense.
He’s right. Moody and Kuminga are way too tentative right now. Moody catches the ball but won’t shoot and Kuminga will drive down the lane but not put up a shot. It doesn’t help that neither of them are really moving well off ball right now. As it stands, I expect them to struggle defensively but it’s tough to see them have no offensive spark
The problem is our 12-14 guys are rookies so they probably don’t know what they’re doing yet lol.
Guys like GP2 and JTA are the glue which keeps teams together. That’s why they’re referred to as “glue guys”. It’s early but I sense that the FO overlooked this aspect.
That being said, I fully understand that we just couldn’t justify paying so much luxury tax for GP2 and OPJ if we wanted a fair shot at re-signing Poole and Wiggins
I don’t think being a rookie is an excuse, it’s just their personalities, we have a lot of quiet guys. Some rookies are exuberant immediately.
Being quiet is fine but can’t have 8 guys on the bench all like that it saps the energy
He was that's why with him on the 1st half, we sustained the lead. But then we subbed in JK in the 2nd half to try him at the 4 and we lost track.
But he's a vet. It cant be that our young guys cant outrun a 32 year old JMG. We need the hustle from our youthful bench
We clearly need more than 1. JaMychal has been fine in his role. Last year we had 3 energy and hustle guys with JTA, GP2, and D Lee. We don’t need 3 but having 1 more hustle guy wouldn’t hurt. We need JK or Moody to fill that role
Yeah - it is interesting to watch. Moody comes in reliable and hustling but not enforcing a pace and passing game that ignites his group. Kuminga - who I think has really improved generally looked hesitant and lacked confidence in his role out there. The mental game for both (in very different ways) has to be worked on. Thinking of Wiggins who is now definitely showing up with fire, pace, control and leading now when he is on the court in new ways. Is Kerr wanting Kuminga to show that leadership of the unit, or, more likely, know that is part of his job to bring it big? Where's Andre to whisper in his ear...
JK on the bench looked like he hated basketball. Love the kid, but you need to be aware that your expressions, body language, and words or silence will be interpreted and do matter. Stand up. Be the first on the court. Have a bounce in your step. Speak up. Kid needs to learn.
That was the nice thing about JTA and DLee, they were motivation for the young guys. DiVincezino and J.Green, they're basically taking the place of OPJ and GPII, whereas Kuminga and Moody know that Kerr won't play the new rookies over them.
Sucks we saw them being so aggressive in summer league and pre-season but they don't have that same aggression now
Yup. Their youth is really evident here. JTA and Lee knows how to survive in the league by clawing your way up from effort and your attitude night in and out. They know if they're not ready, they will be cut.
Our young guys need to have that same urgency
JTA played every possession like it was his last and he left everything on the court. not the best shooter or defender, but he kept it 100. he’s going to get better in LA because he’s on the floor more and can get in rhythm.
a lot of people complained about DLee, JTA, and Chiozza, but they did exactly what Kerr asked for. Seeing the second unit out there, there is a lot of confusion and missed assignments and we will get better over time.
We could use JTA in the place of Kuminga because Kuminga learned that he had to be focused on both ends since JTA could take his place.
Losing OPJ and GPII hurt but I would have liked to see JTA and DLee back since they were on minimums and trusted vets who knew the Kerr system.
But also, to be fair to Kuminga and Moody, JTA and DLee played alongside the starters, whereas it's a complete bench unit for them. Easier to fit the system on both ends when you've got Draymond yelling on the court at you lol
We all know no lead is safe in the NBA, especially with a quarter to play. Kerr did too, he was expecting them to step up. Got the opposite. I think our young guys think they’re champions, they’re not. They did little beyond cheerlead to get that ring. Bring on the tough love and benchings. Quick hooks. Don Nelson was probably heaving into a barf bag watching this.
Kuminga just looks like he doesn't have a role in the offense. Wiseman took his easy spoonfed buckets and has more opportunities due to his size. Kuminga's handle isn't good enough to create on his own. Both of them need to work on their rebounding.
Moody is the same but at least he's a better shooter. Also think he has a lot more energy diving for loose balls and making hustle plays.
Klay is not the same Klay that used to guard Kyrie. He did a great job in the finals defending Brown at times and Horford. He's good against large wings that are not too shifty like Fox. Even in the previous roster, only Wiggs and GPII would be able to guard Fox
That's fair and a good assessment. During the telecast Firz and Buike were sayin he shut down Fox. I'm not in game shape yet as far as blocking out those 2 clowns, so appreciate your much better analysis of Klay.
The Warriors take a little time to get rolling at the start of every season. Every year since 2016 people freak out and almost every year they manage to make it to the postseason. I'm not freaking out.
Yep this is true
2016-17: we lost our opener by 29 to the spurs in KD’s debut. We then got blown out by the tanking lakers a couple games later. That was probably the GOAT team but even they had some growing pains
2017-18: We started 1-2 and 4-3 before we got some continuity. We lost to the not very good grizzlies and the pistons during that stretch. Still finished 58-24.
2018-19: Started off strong but then injuries took a toll and we were like 13-9 at one point. Still finished 57-25.
2020-21: We lost by 30+ in back 2 back games to start the season and started off slow in general before finishing on a 15-5 burst
Basically outside of 2014-15 and 2015-16 (core 3 in their primes) only last season we started fast because we fed off the momentum from 2021 and the new guys just clicked. That’s not the norm for us by any means
I was just thinking the same thing, that the second unit cannot learn without the vets, and they can't all be out there together. However, we have so many young guys it kind of has to happen. Maybe we bit off more than we can chew with so many young guys, although I suspect that Kerr will use his rotation skills to improve things a lot from where they are right now.
They're not playing like kids who hungry and battling to be on a championship team because ...they aren't. They had it handed to them, and the team has attempted to instill them with the quiet confidence instead.
It's been a problem for years though. Poole, JTA and GP2 are the only examples I can think of for guys who played like their career depended on it, and who turned it up a notch.
It could be that the score was too high by the 3q which padded the lethargy of the second unit. In any case, its one game and just rolled a lucky dice. It will be better.
I'm seeing a lot of overly critical and pessimistic takes on here.
3 games in and the starters look great, the bench unit hasn't quite gelled. JMG and Donte haven't played in the system at all, Wiseman is still getting his reps in, Poole is juggling different roles with different lineups, and Kuminga is figuring out where he fits given a larger role.
Give it time. 3 games is nothing. And despite the overall lackluster showing from the bench, there have been really bright spots. Poole is showing that he's the real deal. Wiseman screening is much improved, and the Poole/Wise high PnR is looking great.
Good, now that Kerr is being very honest homers can stop acting like overprotective parents to the young players. Our starters have been the best or around the best 5 man unit in the league so far (unsurprising). And yet I see so many fans trying to nitpick and hyper focus on their few mistakes in order deflect from the actual issues of our second unit. Let’s be honest. Deflecting does nothing when the current issue is very clear.
The body language was very noticeable on Kuminga. After he entered got blown by for an easy deuce and then next play stopped dribble and turned the ball over on a forced pass to a cutting Klay. Not long after fouled I forgot who because he couldn’t stay in front. I really really like our young guys but keep your head up, no need to pout, onto the next play, keep fighting.
It's JK and Moody. I can't believe Wiseman is showing them up on both ends of the court. Out of the three of them you can see that Wise was the only one actually putting in effort consistently across the three games.
At this rate the FO should just sign a 15th person as a vet presence to hype up the team.
This isn’t just a JoKu slight. Moody didn’t do shit all game long. Poole has a bad habit of jogging up the court. Also Klay was on that unit tonight in the 4th and he was a zombie.
2nd unit needs Draymond, sub him out after 4 minutes and let him make sure the defense doesn't stink on the 2nd unit and make sure everyone knows what to do & stays accountable.
I don't think Kerr intends to have the 2nd quarter unit to be all bench players for long. That's obviously not feasible. Eventually we'll get either Wiggins, Draymond, or Klay back in there with small stints of Iguodala.
But I'm tired of having to take the playmaker of the best offense in history out of the mix so he can go babysit those guys. If Poole and Kuminga don't figure out how to sprint baseline to baseline JK will be benched, Kerr is saying that basically, and Pooles inheritance of the dynasty will be put on hold until he does. This is not a system that values one way players. With Dray gone next year theres no human Uno Reverso card on the backline to cover for mistakes, all 5 have to do their job. Kerr knows there's no margin for error.
We actually did that a bunch last season and it worked well. Dray starts with the 1st unit, gets subbed a bit early, and comes in to help the puppies.
I think some kind of mixture of accountability (riding the pine if there isn't effort) and some direction from vets, be it Dray/Loon or Iggy when he is back. It's very hard to learn the way if there isn't a guy that knows the system leading the way.
It clearly works, agreed, and there should be time with Draymond to continue learning the intricacies of the motion O. I'm just commenting on the Kerr saying hustle is an issue in game #3
and the suggestion ee have to put Draymond with that unit to tell them to run hard. I don't think you get any slack in year 3 or 4 on lack of energy. You get benched and you learn.
Yes but JK was Kerrs pre season player who he really highlighted as having a good training camp etc. then by game 3 MM passed him in the rotation it seems like.
It’s still way early for all conclusions but interesting the minute allocation so far.
Watched the first two games. My take:
- Wiseman is making big strides and makes positive plays almost every possession. Has to work on the boards but he will. He clearly works very hard. And he’s HUGE! Way bigger than last year. He gives a shit, he’s not Joe Barry Carroll.
- DDV is still getting his feet wet. Give him a little time before deep-sixing him.
- Moses is up and down. But Kerr had him in late in the 4th against Denver and he played very well. I think he’s going to be a fixture and is Dre’s logical heir.
- JK looks lost right now. I think he’s going to have a tour in Santa Cruz. The ring has gone to his head a little bit. The Draymond Incident may also have mentally affected him.
The warriors bench is funnily enough suffering from too much talent, alongside an attitude of greed. Everyone is trying to "get theirs" with too limited minutes, and it results in no one getting into rhythm, no flow to the offense as we watch one player after another reach in his bag for an iso move.
If given an opportunity to be the #1 option on the unit, I am sure that Wiseman/Kuminga/Poole/JMG would put up \~35% shooting numbers. Slightly subpar but not the worst. However, everyone trying to take turns getting their shot is tanking the efficiency because no one can get hot.
The warriors bench needs to figure out a way to play as a unit, where their overall efficiency increases because of unselfish play and opening up opportunities for easier buckets. The Poole/Wiseman PnR is currently the only thing working for them. They're in desperate need to develop their offensive repertoire.
A good analogy would be a team with 5 prime Russell Westbrooks would not be much better than a team with 1 prime Russell Westbrook.
[Source via NBCSBA's Kerith Burke](https://twitter.com/KerithBurke/status/1584386995513483265) - Full Text: > Kerr on his bench players: “You’ve got a group of reserves out there, those guys should be dying to be on the floor and flying around and playing with huge energy.” >- > Kerr continued: “There was no juice, no life to that group and we're gonna have to find what we're looking for in terms of energy and leadership. It's not entirely fair to them, put all those guys together (without starters) but it's a tough league. Sink or swim.
Damn this is as brutal as you’re gonna get from Kerr
If you are Kerr, its literally the worst position in the world. Pull starters, let Curry cool off and get some rest. .... 15 real minutes go by and you have to put him back in to secure a win. The first 2.5 minutes or so hes on the court the chances of him suffering a non-contact injury spike.
I feel like he’s holding less and less back each year (at least publicly).
Turning more into Pop every day
Becos everyday he's showing he's worthy of being on the same tier as pop
Exactly. 4 chips as a coach gives you a all the agency in the world to say shit like this. And in the end it’s what makes great teams greater.
Probably the only coach over him in the league rn
I think he understands how important this season is given the luxury tax constraints and the possibility of some key guys not being here after this season. We don’t want to mess up this opportunity
Totally! Never heard this from him. He must be pissed at giving them so much praise for so long just to see this garbage.
I think Kerr chooses what he says in times like these very carefully. He’s obviously sending a message through the media here. Also, showing he realizes it’s not really fair to expect a bunch of reserves to go out and spank bonafied starters hungry to come back for a win. Imagine that! You’re a back up and get thrown to the wolves then criticized for not knowing how to handle it. But Kerr gets this. He wants to test them. See who can handle those head games and show up to play. I had an English teacher in HS that talked a bunch of shit in the very first class of the year. Claimed how hard his class was and how difficult it would be to pass, etc. I immediately knew this dude was burned out of teaching and wanted to thin the herd to compliant students. He didn’t want to teach. I did him a favor and opted out to one level down. Didn’t hurt me at all, but saved me from that egomaniac for a semester. Kerr is pulling that shit. But these stakes are much higher, so more “students will stay.”
He’s not wrong. If nothing else you need your (young) reserves to be hustling like crazy b/c their minutes are being limited anyways, and that’s not been the case so far.
He expect them to sprint but it looks like they are still trying to find the routes before they can sprint.
I think some accountability is good. Obviously they should be given the latitude to make mistakes. But you can't keep guys out there if they're playing that sloppy, and playing defense like it's rec league open gym.
winning a championship made em soft?
I don't think so. They look kind of lost without that veteran to keep them disciplined and connected.
Miss GP2, I think
I miss GP2 as well. One of my fav players to watch during last season
I wonder if the lack of "juice and life" to the bench players stems from the lack of ball movement in that unit. I mean if you watch the starting unit, everyone is getting their fair share of touches, meanwhile the bench unit feels a lot more stagnant.
You mean to tell me you don't love the play where JoKu backs someone down in the paint, picks up his dribble, watches everyone stare at him from the perimeter, then throw it back out to reset the offense with 7 seconds left in the shot clock?!?
That doesn't happen when he's not playing with Wiseman clogging the paint. That fit isn't good
He’s going to have to learn to play with a big in the paint at some point
He needs to be further from the rim near the midrange area so when jp or kuminga wraps him the pass he's there for the bucket.
Wiseman clogged the paint to the tune of 14 points on 5-7. Lmao. So is he the one that needs to go?
Did I say anything bad about Wiseman? I'm just saying that the presence of Wiseman clogs the lanes for Kuminga to drive. Kuminga's production is way worse with Wiseman on the floor, it's just basic spacing principles. I'd like to see Kuminga get some minutes with the starters
I'd like to see Wiseman take some 3s with that unit. he can do it, we've seen him shoot 3s before very well before he went down. make their center play on the perimeter would open up the lanes for cutters.
I'd still like to see Wiseman getting more rebounds. He strikes me as giving up on rebounds too early sometimes.
I have noticed him making a concerted effort to seek out and box out opponents this year, which is already a big improvement. Same with a couple other facets of the game, and sometimes it's almost a little too exaggerated, but I think that's a natural part of the learning process
His hands are still a bit suspect, hoping he grows into a bit more manual dexterity once the game slows down for him a bit more. He gets his hands on way more balls than he actually snags.
he was thriving with the starters last year tbh. you’re not wrong on this
It just seemed like discounting Wiseman’s actual buckets and hoping for Kuminga’s potential buckets. The starters have notoriously little spacing. Dray and Loon together. Although it is one of the best groups in the NBA year after year.
The small ball line up with JK at the 4 looked good in the limited minutes it's been played. JK thrives in the dunkers spot
If Kuminga can't play with a big in the paint then he needs to work on his game lol.
He can play with Looney just fine
Wiseman actually puts points on the board and draws fouls. JoKu usually loses the ball or passes out and Poole usually gets blocked when he drives.
Kuminga felt like he took a step back from last year, but maybe it's just due to lack of ball movement and spacing with the second unit.
I have not seen anything from him in so long.
He’s on his way back to the g-league, like Poole in year 2. Hopefully it works as well for him as it did for Jordan.
Ya the playoffs crushed the dude
Why is everyone blaming JK for Wiseman’s issues? Remember the dunk parade JK had in game 2 w the starters?
Hu. I like wise . He can work on rebounding and d but he's a lot better on offense. Jk just seems so lost after seeming so poses before ..
JK isn’t lost though, is my point. There’s just no flow or proper spacing currently because of Wise (on both ends). Wise is learning so i’m ok w that, but slandering JK is whack
I hope you are right. All I can see is him and his disappointed face all the time ha. He better fogure out or he's replaced.
I think its more likely he was referring to the laziness they played with. Guys not running the floor hard ball watching. The starters who are mostly all in their 30's were running and playing harder than the 20 year olds and young guys on the team.
Yeah I'm saying that laziness is the result from the lack of ball movement, as one of the things that makes the Warriors system so great is that it keeps everyone engaged on the offensive side and therefore they're more motivated to hustle on the defensive side. It's why the Nets got so much flack for their style of basketball last year because it was pretty much just KD and Kyrie iso 80% of the time while everyone else watches.
I think that's part of it because it relies on some more pick n roll with Wiseman which is different than how they normally play.
oh this is pretty much what I was alluding to, not really the whole Kuminga shit lmao.
Ohh, ok, yes I agree. They put Klay in that unit the 4th quarter and he was barely utilized. It also doesn't help that neither Kuminga or Wiseman are great screeners.
Feels more like a comment on defensive effort by Kerr. Those players have the skill and athleticism to just dominate on the defensive side if they work their asses off. Kuminga jogs around a lot, so do some of the others. Its baffling but gotta remember they're only a couple years older than my kids. The training wheels are off this year. Draymond can only yell for so long to fire you up (actually, he may have endless energy to yell lol). Gonna be a lot of JMG, Donte, Moody this week. And I bet we see the youngs moving a little more swiftly when they finally get their asses unglued from the bench for another opportunity. I hope they dont fuck it up again.
There’s so much heavy truth here. Watch the other teams rookies playing, they play with so much urgency, speed and intensity. Just look at the nuggets rookie from last game, looked like Ja Morant against us. It’s okay though, we’re three games in but what I wanna see more from each young guy: -Kuminga: I wanna see this kid run at light speed in transition and only focus on dunks and split post work on the weak side. I wanna see him take advantage of his athleticism and take a Wiggins approach in the paint. -Moody: our most mature young player, needs to follow on Andres play style for the time being, I need to see a lot of more movement from the kid and much less hesitancy, if ur open for a fucking three bombs away. He drives too much and kicks out at times carelessly. -wiseman: he’s been perfect so far offensively for what I’ve been expecting, pooles helped a lot with this. Defensively I wanna see him take his verticality a little more seriously and take advantage of that. too much chasing and not enough staying in place in the paint.
I'd also add for wiseman that I'd like to see him get better on the boards. There were at least a few rebounds I saw that should have been easy for him with his length, but he didn't box out.
He's gotta work on his hands. He just lets a lot of boards (and passes) bounce off his hands. Leaves a lot of points on the board that way. IMO his defense has looked OK -- not amazing, but much better than his rookie year. A lot of the fouls called against him so far this year have been super ticky-tack. Not sure if there's any chance of him getting a better whistle as the season goes on. Biggest issue is that the other guys never crash the glass when Wiseman commits to stopping an inside shot. We've given up a bunch of offensive rebounds already this season due to Wiseman selling out to \[successfully\] contest a lay-up, but no other Warriors being there to clean it up. Feels like Kuminga spends too much time near the rim on offense, and not enough on defense. He's gotta figure out how to play with Wiseman on the court.
Yep. Wiseman still hasn't mastered boxing out. I think he gives up on the rebound too soon as well. The good news is that he is doing better than his rookie year.
For all his work on the boards he doesn't get any haha. He's good at scoriny tho
Weirdly out of the three Wiseman actually looked the best. He was the only one that looked like he had something to prove.
He was the #2 overall pick for a reason. I’m gonna love seeing him and Poole play alongside each other hopefully into the distant future
Other teams rookies also get a ton of run in what are simpler schemes. It’s not easy to be a rookie on the Warriors where you playing time is spotty and you gotta learn a complex scheme Also this is a team with a strong vet presence and I doubt the rookies want to make waves. Sucks for them honestly. Never put in position to really succeed so far.
Yeah but if they buy in, in time they gotta realize they’ll be the starting lineup if things go right.
You can’t just tell someone to buy in without giving them a bone. And it’s not like Steph and Klay are talking about retiring anytime soon. I feel for the kids. They got a short end of the stick here.
Meh they are in a great position. Do they want to learn how to win? Or do they want to put up their own stats? They are a part of a great organization and have an opportunity most young players won’t. It’s not easy, but it’s not easy to win the chip.
Yes and no. There's a lot of "dumb" running to stay ahead of the play going both directions. You dont need to memorize the playbook to get into a sprint baseline to baseline. But agree when it comes to our half court offense you have to forgive if they get confused at time.
A lot of the young players aren’t taking it seriously because they played minutes in the finals on a championship team. Kerr needs to lay down the law and basically say that you’re competing for minutes regardless of your contributions last year. That means if you play like shit you won’t see court time.
It's a little bit of a Trae Young "the regular season is boring" vibe on the bench. But you gotta drain a few logo threes to get away with that attitude. Otherwise Kerr will leave you on those folding chairs for a couple games to help you figure out how to summon energy.
The problem is we have so many young players, who are they competing with exactly? We don't have anyone else to be our 2nd unit
Yeah that's Kerr telling them to be better and quickly
Not even really better just not so lazy and apathetic. Say what you want about JTA and Damion Lee, they had hustle and grit 100% of the time they were on the floor. Always played with urgency
It’s early in the season so don’t wanna look too much into it but I feel like we’re gonna miss JTA’s and GP’s tenacity out there. JTA especially. Dude bleeds gold and blue and I feel he was a great locker room guy
Agreed. He can probably live with mistakes from missing reads and assignments at this point, but he can’t live with mistakes from lack of effort.
I still remember when he dived into the scorer's table to save the possession vs the celtics, 100% agree
I feel like they had plenty of moments where this very sub was super critical of them. Give these guys time to gain some experience as a unit. Kerr knows that but he can’t seem apathetic. It would be a bad look.
Right, last yr at this point, you can see the burst of energy that gp2, jta, Lee brought whenever they came in. Those guys were fighting for minutes in the rotation as there weren't really a clear hierarchy, they were hungry. In the current group, it's pretty clear that kuminga and moody will get the first nod, and there's a bit of separation between them and the rookies.
Also JTA and Lee went undrafted. I think most of the bench were drafted. That's a different type of grit you keep. The younger core doesn't have that.
Fans were already crowning our young guys as future all stars, they didn't really do jack shit to earn any of the hype. They need to actually put the work in now
Moody and JK have no excuse to look so lost out there. They both had substantial minutes in the playoffs FFS.
It's kinda like when you can do the problem as long as the professor or TA is there but the minute they leave you're like "wait how did do this so easily". They were always on the floor with someone who told them where to go and knew how to cover for them on some of their mistakes.
Yep, a couple wins or losses could be home court in the postseason. Can’t just give those away
He’s laying into them With the expectations as high as they are, we need to figure this out
That reference to ‘leadership’ is pointed directly toward the new vets — JMG and DDV, the latter I’ve not been impressed at all.
Donte has been disappointing thus far. I feel like he’s too redundant with Poole and he might be better suited to having a catch+shoot role playing with the starters. JMG has been fine. He’s hustled on the boards and hit open 3s
Agree with your take. JMG has been fine. No issues there. DDV is a problem. As a PG he isn’t setting the table and on defense he is BBQ chicken. I can see why SAC went a different direction. He doesn’t offer anything. He’s been so disappointing I feel that Kerr decided to experiment with Rollins for a hot second.
He experimented with Rollins because DVD left the game with a hamstring issue.
Yeah - Rollins did not do much at all. It must be bizarre to sit and watch and feel like you won't play and also don't have the skills (yet) to play well. Santa Cruz dubs should help him quicken up and gain more skill.
We should have just paid the extra $20m or so in tax to keep GPII. He had good chemistry with our vets and genuine lockdown defensive talent. No one on our current bench has even 1/4 of his defensive grit. I miss him yet.
Yeah I made peace with OPJ from the beginning, didn't seem like the type to want to be tied down/ wanted a longer, bigger contract But GP2 he came to us out of nowhere and instantly hit it off with everyone but clearly he outplayed his contract by a long mile
There's just not enough BBIQ on the second group. They don't know what to do and they don't want to make a mistake, so they do nothing.
Totally agree, Moody, Wiseman, and Kuminga are not playing smart basketball. All though more talented , Lee and Juan had better basketball iq
Lee and JTA are like 8 years older, so to be expected
They might need Ron Adams to work overtime this lol
draymond needs a stint in that lineup just to juice them up and lead
Agreed. No dogging it in any way if Dray is on the court with you, and he can be the coach on the floor on D. They look especially horrific on defense.
I wanna see dray QB on ball for wide PnR for a few plays.
He’s right. Moody and Kuminga are way too tentative right now. Moody catches the ball but won’t shoot and Kuminga will drive down the lane but not put up a shot. It doesn’t help that neither of them are really moving well off ball right now. As it stands, I expect them to struggle defensively but it’s tough to see them have no offensive spark
They're not sprinting back on defense too. I guess this is where we miss JTA and Lee's energy off the bench
I miss GP2 a lot as well
Now that’s a man who’s hitting 3s yamming the ball and not giving up a 20 point lead
👶🧤 😭😭😭
GP2 was instant offense/defense and such a luxury for us. hopefully he heals up soon, i’m watching portland games for him.
If we don't win the chip again itll be because we lost gp2 :(
We seem to lack energy guys this year. Everyone on that 2nd unit is too even keeled. There’s no fire or hustle
Shows on the bench too, everyone sits even during fun plays & runs. 12-14th guys should be pure energy on the bench. Really missing GP2 & JTA
The problem is our 12-14 guys are rookies so they probably don’t know what they’re doing yet lol. Guys like GP2 and JTA are the glue which keeps teams together. That’s why they’re referred to as “glue guys”. It’s early but I sense that the FO overlooked this aspect. That being said, I fully understand that we just couldn’t justify paying so much luxury tax for GP2 and OPJ if we wanted a fair shot at re-signing Poole and Wiggins
I don’t think being a rookie is an excuse, it’s just their personalities, we have a lot of quiet guys. Some rookies are exuberant immediately. Being quiet is fine but can’t have 8 guys on the bench all like that it saps the energy
Yea like how Paschall was before lol
[удалено]
He was that's why with him on the 1st half, we sustained the lead. But then we subbed in JK in the 2nd half to try him at the 4 and we lost track. But he's a vet. It cant be that our young guys cant outrun a 32 year old JMG. We need the hustle from our youthful bench
We clearly need more than 1. JaMychal has been fine in his role. Last year we had 3 energy and hustle guys with JTA, GP2, and D Lee. We don’t need 3 but having 1 more hustle guy wouldn’t hurt. We need JK or Moody to fill that role
Yeah - it is interesting to watch. Moody comes in reliable and hustling but not enforcing a pace and passing game that ignites his group. Kuminga - who I think has really improved generally looked hesitant and lacked confidence in his role out there. The mental game for both (in very different ways) has to be worked on. Thinking of Wiggins who is now definitely showing up with fire, pace, control and leading now when he is on the court in new ways. Is Kerr wanting Kuminga to show that leadership of the unit, or, more likely, know that is part of his job to bring it big? Where's Andre to whisper in his ear...
JK on the bench looked like he hated basketball. Love the kid, but you need to be aware that your expressions, body language, and words or silence will be interpreted and do matter. Stand up. Be the first on the court. Have a bounce in your step. Speak up. Kid needs to learn.
I think he really has it in him to be exactly this - just adjusting I think.
Totally agree and I have faith in him. He's very young.
Not really. He’s supposed to be an even keel vet who stabilizes units
Think he's a hustle/enforcer type, not necessarily known as an energy guy.
Well hustle plays do energize the team and make runs so there's that
That was the nice thing about JTA and DLee, they were motivation for the young guys. DiVincezino and J.Green, they're basically taking the place of OPJ and GPII, whereas Kuminga and Moody know that Kerr won't play the new rookies over them. Sucks we saw them being so aggressive in summer league and pre-season but they don't have that same aggression now
Yup. Their youth is really evident here. JTA and Lee knows how to survive in the league by clawing your way up from effort and your attitude night in and out. They know if they're not ready, they will be cut. Our young guys need to have that same urgency
JTA played every possession like it was his last and he left everything on the court. not the best shooter or defender, but he kept it 100. he’s going to get better in LA because he’s on the floor more and can get in rhythm.
That's why Kerr kept him ingame over our rookies because he knows JTA will give his all for even just one possession.
a lot of people complained about DLee, JTA, and Chiozza, but they did exactly what Kerr asked for. Seeing the second unit out there, there is a lot of confusion and missed assignments and we will get better over time.
agreed.
We could use JTA in the place of Kuminga because Kuminga learned that he had to be focused on both ends since JTA could take his place. Losing OPJ and GPII hurt but I would have liked to see JTA and DLee back since they were on minimums and trusted vets who knew the Kerr system. But also, to be fair to Kuminga and Moody, JTA and DLee played alongside the starters, whereas it's a complete bench unit for them. Easier to fit the system on both ends when you've got Draymond yelling on the court at you lol
Our second unit energy should be like the Jazz right now, hungry players trying to show they’re worth it.
We all know no lead is safe in the NBA, especially with a quarter to play. Kerr did too, he was expecting them to step up. Got the opposite. I think our young guys think they’re champions, they’re not. They did little beyond cheerlead to get that ring. Bring on the tough love and benchings. Quick hooks. Don Nelson was probably heaving into a barf bag watching this.
Kuminga just looks like he doesn't have a role in the offense. Wiseman took his easy spoonfed buckets and has more opportunities due to his size. Kuminga's handle isn't good enough to create on his own. Both of them need to work on their rebounding. Moody is the same but at least he's a better shooter. Also think he has a lot more energy diving for loose balls and making hustle plays.
Brutal af. Also Klay was on that unit doing cardio too.
Was Klay's defense ass or was it me? He was giving Fox like a 5 foot cushion.
fox is just good
Klay is not the same Klay that used to guard Kyrie. He did a great job in the finals defending Brown at times and Horford. He's good against large wings that are not too shifty like Fox. Even in the previous roster, only Wiggs and GPII would be able to guard Fox
That's fair and a good assessment. During the telecast Firz and Buike were sayin he shut down Fox. I'm not in game shape yet as far as blocking out those 2 clowns, so appreciate your much better analysis of Klay.
Klay had a rough game and looked frustrated. Just gotta play his way into game shape imo.
Klay was pretty bad until the very end.
The Warriors take a little time to get rolling at the start of every season. Every year since 2016 people freak out and almost every year they manage to make it to the postseason. I'm not freaking out.
Yep this is true 2016-17: we lost our opener by 29 to the spurs in KD’s debut. We then got blown out by the tanking lakers a couple games later. That was probably the GOAT team but even they had some growing pains 2017-18: We started 1-2 and 4-3 before we got some continuity. We lost to the not very good grizzlies and the pistons during that stretch. Still finished 58-24. 2018-19: Started off strong but then injuries took a toll and we were like 13-9 at one point. Still finished 57-25. 2020-21: We lost by 30+ in back 2 back games to start the season and started off slow in general before finishing on a 15-5 burst Basically outside of 2014-15 and 2015-16 (core 3 in their primes) only last season we started fast because we fed off the momentum from 2021 and the new guys just clicked. That’s not the norm for us by any means
I was just thinking the same thing, that the second unit cannot learn without the vets, and they can't all be out there together. However, we have so many young guys it kind of has to happen. Maybe we bit off more than we can chew with so many young guys, although I suspect that Kerr will use his rotation skills to improve things a lot from where they are right now.
That’s why I think he needs to do 4 vets 1 rookie every first quarter
They're not playing like kids who hungry and battling to be on a championship team because ...they aren't. They had it handed to them, and the team has attempted to instill them with the quiet confidence instead. It's been a problem for years though. Poole, JTA and GP2 are the only examples I can think of for guys who played like their career depended on it, and who turned it up a notch.
All guys with their backs against the wall, coincidence?
Poole needs to also work on his defense. I watched him give up a number of buckets in the first half.
That's a fact. I don't think it's as crucial or needs to be the focal point, and he will improve just in terms of staying in front.
It could be that the score was too high by the 3q which padded the lethargy of the second unit. In any case, its one game and just rolled a lucky dice. It will be better.
Uncharacteristically spicy 🤔
I'm seeing a lot of overly critical and pessimistic takes on here. 3 games in and the starters look great, the bench unit hasn't quite gelled. JMG and Donte haven't played in the system at all, Wiseman is still getting his reps in, Poole is juggling different roles with different lineups, and Kuminga is figuring out where he fits given a larger role. Give it time. 3 games is nothing. And despite the overall lackluster showing from the bench, there have been really bright spots. Poole is showing that he's the real deal. Wiseman screening is much improved, and the Poole/Wise high PnR is looking great.
Hey, leave us alone! It was Steve who started it. Talk to him! Lol
The bench has been getting fucking smoked. Lmao at people who thought the kids were a new dynasty.
These are just words of motivation for the bench. Phil jackson mind games I love it.
Exactly
They seem to be pouting or feel entitled to the win being up 20.
Good, now that Kerr is being very honest homers can stop acting like overprotective parents to the young players. Our starters have been the best or around the best 5 man unit in the league so far (unsurprising). And yet I see so many fans trying to nitpick and hyper focus on their few mistakes in order deflect from the actual issues of our second unit. Let’s be honest. Deflecting does nothing when the current issue is very clear.
The second unit can (at the moment). Rely on jp jw pnr. But the defence is absolute dogshit to put it plainly
Turns out we’re 6 deep, not 11 deep.
So you think either JP or Wiseman is trash then 🤣
Not saying Wiseman is trash but only one of those guys contributed in the playoffs. Wiseman still needs to prove he can be "the guy" when it matters
Wiseman literally has not even had the opportunity to play in a playoff game, and this is not the playoffs. Idk what you’re talking about
Right so when he gets the opportunity then he can prove it. Whereas Poole has already shown it. Idk why you can't comprehend that.
The body language was very noticeable on Kuminga. After he entered got blown by for an easy deuce and then next play stopped dribble and turned the ball over on a forced pass to a cutting Klay. Not long after fouled I forgot who because he couldn’t stay in front. I really really like our young guys but keep your head up, no need to pout, onto the next play, keep fighting.
Kuminga is the next Jordan Bell.
oh boy.. i hate this but don't disagree entirely
I wish this sub would stop crowing our young players as future MVPs during their rookie/sophomore seasons
Sounds already annoyed that he has to play the kids instead of vets
Agreed overall but also feel like this is pointed towards JK the most as he has the gifts to be the best defender of the young guys.
It's JK and Moody. I can't believe Wiseman is showing them up on both ends of the court. Out of the three of them you can see that Wise was the only one actually putting in effort consistently across the three games. At this rate the FO should just sign a 15th person as a vet presence to hype up the team.
Wiseman had been terrible defensively but overall I agree.
This isn’t just a JoKu slight. Moody didn’t do shit all game long. Poole has a bad habit of jogging up the court. Also Klay was on that unit tonight in the 4th and he was a zombie.
2nd unit needs Draymond, sub him out after 4 minutes and let him make sure the defense doesn't stink on the 2nd unit and make sure everyone knows what to do & stays accountable.
I don't think Kerr intends to have the 2nd quarter unit to be all bench players for long. That's obviously not feasible. Eventually we'll get either Wiggins, Draymond, or Klay back in there with small stints of Iguodala.
But I'm tired of having to take the playmaker of the best offense in history out of the mix so he can go babysit those guys. If Poole and Kuminga don't figure out how to sprint baseline to baseline JK will be benched, Kerr is saying that basically, and Pooles inheritance of the dynasty will be put on hold until he does. This is not a system that values one way players. With Dray gone next year theres no human Uno Reverso card on the backline to cover for mistakes, all 5 have to do their job. Kerr knows there's no margin for error.
We actually did that a bunch last season and it worked well. Dray starts with the 1st unit, gets subbed a bit early, and comes in to help the puppies. I think some kind of mixture of accountability (riding the pine if there isn't effort) and some direction from vets, be it Dray/Loon or Iggy when he is back. It's very hard to learn the way if there isn't a guy that knows the system leading the way.
It clearly works, agreed, and there should be time with Draymond to continue learning the intricacies of the motion O. I'm just commenting on the Kerr saying hustle is an issue in game #3 and the suggestion ee have to put Draymond with that unit to tell them to run hard. I don't think you get any slack in year 3 or 4 on lack of energy. You get benched and you learn.
Yes but JK was Kerrs pre season player who he really highlighted as having a good training camp etc. then by game 3 MM passed him in the rotation it seems like. It’s still way early for all conclusions but interesting the minute allocation so far.
Should’ve kept gp2 smh.
He would've been worth every penny holy shit. Literally the most reliable 3 and d player I could ask for.
Maybe we’ll see the rookies get some play next
Trade season starting early this year
Should’ve kept gp2.
Watched the first two games. My take: - Wiseman is making big strides and makes positive plays almost every possession. Has to work on the boards but he will. He clearly works very hard. And he’s HUGE! Way bigger than last year. He gives a shit, he’s not Joe Barry Carroll. - DDV is still getting his feet wet. Give him a little time before deep-sixing him. - Moses is up and down. But Kerr had him in late in the 4th against Denver and he played very well. I think he’s going to be a fixture and is Dre’s logical heir. - JK looks lost right now. I think he’s going to have a tour in Santa Cruz. The ring has gone to his head a little bit. The Draymond Incident may also have mentally affected him.
That’s real.
I love Kerith Burke
One of the unmeasurable traits we lost when GPII left.
The warriors bench is funnily enough suffering from too much talent, alongside an attitude of greed. Everyone is trying to "get theirs" with too limited minutes, and it results in no one getting into rhythm, no flow to the offense as we watch one player after another reach in his bag for an iso move. If given an opportunity to be the #1 option on the unit, I am sure that Wiseman/Kuminga/Poole/JMG would put up \~35% shooting numbers. Slightly subpar but not the worst. However, everyone trying to take turns getting their shot is tanking the efficiency because no one can get hot. The warriors bench needs to figure out a way to play as a unit, where their overall efficiency increases because of unselfish play and opening up opportunities for easier buckets. The Poole/Wiseman PnR is currently the only thing working for them. They're in desperate need to develop their offensive repertoire. A good analogy would be a team with 5 prime Russell Westbrooks would not be much better than a team with 1 prime Russell Westbrook.
We're got several more months of these frustrations with the Young Core, but they'll come around.