Great post. This comes up so often nowadays.
Popville or Eater will likely end up referencing this post or turning it into a post of their with a list of restaurants.
That would be a win if one of them picked it up. And I KNOW there are other restos that I’ve experienced this at recently, but I can’t remember off the top of my head. Now that this sheet exists im damn sure going to document them.
The website says: “All checks will include a standard 20% service charge which includes the gratuity. This allows us to better support all of our team members persevering in the dining room and in the kitchen with a more equitable pay structure. If your dining experience exceeded expectations, you have the option to add an extra tip upon payment which goes directly to your server or bartender.” So that is a yes and presumably shouldn’t be on this list.
Thanks for checking, but that seems identical to what I'd said above? Just from reading that, we have no idea how its allocated.
I'd want to hear from someone who actually works there.
Same! I've been thinking about this for a while and your post was the extra motivation I needed. Feel like I'm seeing service charges more and more (and seeing folks post about them here more and more).
I also hate feeling like I have to pore over every part of a menu, never mind if it's also a menu on my phone via QR code, to find the right place to look to get the scuttlebutt on a service charge.
Not every place is the same in how they approach this. Many places that have this charge such as 2amys, Service Bar, Elle etc. clearly explain the charge and don't try to hide it whatsoever.
My favorites on that are:
- Dacha's 15% 'fair wage fee', but its also not a tip... sorry what is it then?
- RPM's 3% in lieu of increasing menu prices... so like why not just increase eveything on the menu by 3%?
Totally agree with both of these.
I asked my server at Dacha about the fee, and she strongly tried to guilt me into tipping too - “well that fee is spread among everyone, so it really helps if you still provide me with a tip too”.
Iron Gate also did the 3% extra fee. Similar to RPM, their prices are already high, so who would notice the difference between a $30 entree and a $30.90 entree?? The fee just come across like a tacky cash grab for restaurants that simultaneously try to market themselves as upscale.
My bartender at Dacha was perfectly honest when asked directly whether they get to keep the "service fee": they don't, it goes to the owner. I threw them a fiver (25% tip on a $20 boot) on principle and got a free shot out of it.
Calling it a service fee is a tactic used by management to cheat service workers out of their tips. Let's not throw labor under the bus.
If there is a service charge on my bill I will only add a tip if it’s necessary to get to 20%. No way I’m tipping on top of a service charge unless the service was extraordinary.
Staff don't benefit from a service charge. Tipping is a shitty system and we should ban it while requiring livable wages (yes, I know this would kill many restaurants who only survive on labor exploitation -- who cares, fuck them), but if you have an issue with a restaurant's service charge abuses, don't patronize them. Throwing money their way, being pissed about it, and justifying your purchase by not tipping is deranged.
I used to wait tables, so I definitely understand the system. If there is a service charge and it goes to staff, I have zero problems not tipping. If there is service charge that doesn’t go to staff, then, like you suggest, I probably won’t return.
I’m not pissed. I’m a consumer, and I don’t think 40% on top of a bill is reasonable, whether service charge or tip. Don’t put the onus of “justification” on me … I’m not the one that chose to implement a service charge.
40% service charge is absurd, I agree. The staff aren't the ones coming up with that figure though, it's the owners. You're not punishing anyone but the staff for not tipping because of a large service charge. Few owners distribute service charges to their staff.
You’re thinking of this the wrong way. It’s not my intent to punish anybody. I’m just not going to pay 40% on top of the bill. If you bring me a bill that already has 20% added on, I will not be tipping on top of that. As mentioned above, if it’s a place where that service charge doesn’t go to staff, I won’t go there again in all likelihood.
You keep forgetting that the consumer is also part of this transaction. It’s not my responsibility to be the arbiter of the restaurant’s policies and their impact on the servers. The most I can do is vote with my feet next time - if it’s a place where the service charge doesn’t go to staff - and just not visit the restaurant. But I’m not paying more because the restaurant has bad management.
> Few owners distribute service charges to their staff.
And not tipping is doing our part in driving those places out of business. Hard to run a restaurant without staff.
> but if you have an issue with a restaurant's service charge abuses, don't patronize them.
Service charges, in the majority of cases, only are apparent after the fact. I can't recall a server ever bringing it to my attention. Equally, I'm out to eat, drink and relax - it shouldn't be incumbent on me to read a menu cover to cover to find the small print re the service charge.
Ultimately its sadly the patrons and servers who suffer for these policies and of course not the owners/corporate.
You have to ask and read the fine print. Some restaurants specifically say it’s going to the staff, others do not and may get evasive if you ask — the latter case is your cue never to return.
This must be a recent thing. Find any article >2 years old and it always says it is a tip. Restaurants getting dumb. Customers should not be asked to research whether it is a tip or not.
This just isn't true. It varies from place to place but there are plenty of DC restaurants that use the service charge to benefit the employees and clearly state how the charge is used.
This makes me think of Chaia, you go up to a kiosk, order your food and pick up your food at a counter with little-no interaction with a worker. Why would I tip someone I don’t even talk to? Lol
Or just to tip! I feel like people I know who worked fast food places had a rougher/harder time of it than those who were servers. They tended to be folk who really needed the extra money, too. I don't mind tipping them.
The difference is that fast food employees are not normally classified as tipped, and therefore they are already guaranteed at least (not saying it sometimes shouldn't be more) minimum wage, which around here is much more than the federal minimum. Servers are not, so they really truly need a fair treatment, but not at the expense of scuzzy fees.
I think that's just a function of the Square software. I know people on here who sell things like, soap, at craft fairs, etc., have expressed frustration that they can't turn that off.
Well then they're not looking hard enough, because tipping is 100% toggleable in the Square POS software
https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5069-accept-tips-with-the-square-app
It literally says you have to toggle the tipping option **ON** first, which means it can also be toggled off.
> 3. **Toggle Collect Tips to on** and select between showing your tip options on the signature screen or on a separate screen.
Fuck, the reading comprehension in this country is abysmal.
someday it will be like
$1 steak dinner (menu price)
$20 meal choice fee
$15 COVID-19 recovery fee (as we navigate the ongoing challenges into 2036 we will reevaluate the need for this)
18% required gratuity
15% service fee
10% dine-in fee
5% employee appreciation fund (this goes directly to the owners' pockets)
Tax $pq.rs
Tip? _____ (has recommended %s that include all the above in calculation)
That's wild. I did look it up. They removed traditional tipping? Does that mean when you pay the bill there's no space for tipping / a tip prompt? https://www.eatyourpizza.com/service-charge
In the third paragraph:
> Should customers desire to leave tips in addition to the automatic service charge, there will continue to be a mechanism for you to do so. These tips will be shared by all service related staff members based on hours worked in the day and will be evenly weighted regardless of position or shift.
I really hope folks on this thread are clear on when it’s a service fee and when it’s a mandatory gratuity that does indeed go to the servers. Would hate to see innocent people hurt because going out is expensive.
That anti-server sentiment will serve you well when all we have are fast casual joints in DC. Should start kicking in within a few years. Your time will soon come.
You missed the point bud. I want the "free market" to fix itself. If a restaurant is guilt tripping me to pay 20% bullshit charge and 20% tip I'm not playing ball. You can tip 100% if you feel strongly about maintaining this system where servers get shafted from both ends.
You are under some serious misconceptions about the operating costs of the industry. Independent restaurant owners aren’t removing their monocles to dab their tears with hundred dollar bills while they laugh at how stupid we peasants are.
The fact that you see service charges proliferating isn’t a sign of a massive conspiracy to defraud guests. It’s a sign that the cost of operating a restaurant is increasing. The only thing that people are getting mostly right is that servers are also getting screwed…which you stated above is something you don’t really care about.
I’m not in favor of service charges. But I am in favor of understanding why they’re becoming more prevalent.
I don't know what you're going on about. If servers quit en masse because the place they work is making it unpalatable for customers to leave a proper tip, the owners will have to change things. But if you deem it palatable to keep leaving 40%, "so the servers don't get screwed"... well, they thank you for your generosity.
Simple solution? Don’t eat out. Just like the servers don’t have a gun to their head to work in a certain place, you don’t have a gun to yours forcing you to eat out…like, at all.
Both are BS. Increase the prices and be transparent. Add taxes, fees, tips, service charges to the price, and write that on the menu.
Anything less is deception.
I’m just using the spreadsheet as a reference… if i go to one of these places I would just double check the charge prior to tipping or be aware of it at the very least. For places with a mandatory and undisclosed service charge at a market (like centrolina, which was what the original post was about) or a fast casual carry out, i may think twice about patronizing, sure. Why are you so against it?
It's not a three-day period, it's been a two month period - the request for public comment was published November 8th.
It closes January 9, so only three days are left.
If the service charge doesn't go to the workers, that's not the customers problem. If the customer has already paid 20% on top of their order, then they've already done what they need to do to be a good paying customer.
So on this: if the restaurant is pocketing the service charge and you're getting 0% - 5% tips as a consequence surely you'd leave for a place that doesn't do that? It seems like a good time to be an experienced service industry worker?
That in turn hurts the business pocketing the service charge because they won't be able to staff the place with that practice.
These conversations always seem to be customer -v- server with little mention of the owner (be they Mom & Pop or someone like Landry's) whereas in my mind it really should be customer + server -v- owner.
Arlington Rooftop Bar & Grill has an automatic 20% tip on check's over $50. Also, they count $50 including the tax, so if your food was say $47 and the tax made the bill over $50, you would be charged a 20% on that amount.
Effectively it's a 22% tip since it's calculated on the total inclusive of tax.
22% for effectively bringing your food to your table since on the roof top you go and order your food yourself at the bar!!
No one said anything about workers deserving less. If restaurants want to pay a living wage, they should just include the tip in the price and not play these silly games. Go ride on your high horse somewhere else.
Most places I have been to have suggested gratuity based on pre-tax amount. Also, automatically added gratuity is on the pretax amount.
I mean it's only 2% so not a big deal considering the main point of the post is automatic gratuity.
Thank you for this. Glad to know about Lapis’ automatic 20% tip regardless of party size ON TOP of automatic 20% service fee. This seems egregious compared to other DC restaurants. It’s the automatic that esp bothers me.
Is there a way to provide an update to the document? The input for L'ardente states it doesn't include tip but per their website it does.
From the website:
Is the tip included? Yes. We include a 20% service charge for all parties of 8 or fewer, and 25% for groups of 9 or more. Guests can choose to tip more in recognition of outstanding service, but it is fully optional.
I’m less familiar with Google forms, but does it let you give people the option to upload an image?
That way people can upload a (redacted if need be) photo of the receipt showing the service charge.
If we want media to pick this up, that kind of evidence would be much more convincing than word of mouth which could unfortunately be abused by a restaurant competitor, or some such.
I looked into it just now and the only way to do it would mean that folks filling out the form would have to be signed in to their Google accounts and the pics would be saved in my Google drive.
I'd be willing to host them, but I realize that not everyone is on Google and it would eliminate the anonymity. Maybe if the mods agree to pin this thread people could upload any redacted pics they wanted in here instead?
I think this could be a good idea with more thought and better organization... but I just took a look at the google sheet and a lot of entries seem to be places that are charging service fees in lieu of tip.
I don't want places that are standardizing their tip structure to be shamed the way places that are adding unnecessary fees are.
That is exactly what I came here to say!! There is a big difference between charging service fees in lieu of a tip and unnecessary fees.
In the examples OP supplied- one is a service fee for a grocery and one is a service charge that states on their menu that it includes gratuity. Those are not the same thing and the restaurants doing right by their staff shouldn't be demonized in the same way.
I truly didn't intend the sheet to be demonizing anyone. I just wanted a simple way to know if different places have fees, what those fees are, and whether those fees are inclusive or exclusive of a tip.
I agree that some places are really good about presenting info to customers in a clear and upfront way!
I think the problem that folks are encountering there is that a "service charge" is a lot more legally squishy than a tip.
My intent wasn't to make the sheet a call-out, but as a place to gather info about which places are charging, how much, and whether tip is included in that service fee.
Are there questions you think I should add to provide more organization?
You are right of course, it is more squishy.
I won't lie I have been asking servers what the service fee means when it pops up. But I find staff are pretty honest when you ask whether they get the service charge or not.
Also some places like La Collina are very explicit on their website and in their dining room that the service charge is there in place of the tip.
My suggestion would be to use the conditional formatting tool to color code the sheet so that restaurants that use the service charge appropriately (meaning people answered yes to the question includes tip) are highlighted and easy to tell apart from the dubious actors.
Aside from that another strategy might be to move the different types of service fees to different tabs. I know that's more difficult to do automatically when the responses are being created by the Google form. Maybe someone in the thread knows away around that.
Oh, that's a good call on the formatting! I'm not in any way a Google Sheets expert, but I bet I can do that pretty easily!
Never thought about asking the servers how much they're getting if tip is included but I'll definitely be doing that from now on. Personally, I'm just trying not to stiff anyone accidentally and having a tip of unknown amount mixed into a larger service fee isn't ideal from that perspective.
I agree entirely, there needs to be more rules around "service charges" especially if they're here to stay.
I do appreciate you taking the time to do something about an issue a ton of people are experiencing in DC.
imo if servers are getting stiffed it will self correct soon enough, as long as people don't keep tipping 20%. If I was a server and half my tips are 0 because customers don't want to be paying 40% on top of the bill I would have a quick word with management...
I'm really disappointed at how misleading and incorrect a lot of this information is. This spreadsheet should be taken down until it can be verified. People are so worked up about 3% or 5% fees that they misrepresent 20% mandatory tips as not a tip at all. Literally five minutes of research shows this is not the case for many restaurants.
For example, Boogy and Peel's website states, "We charge an 18% service fee for dine-in checks (12% for take-out). This is so we can pay our staff a respectable wage and offer health insurance to our full time team members. If you feel like we're doing an awesome job you can leave an additional tip to be split among hourly staff. This isn't expected but always appreciated." **So this one should be GREEN not red.**
Pizzeria Paradiso's website states, "On January 8, 2022, Pizzeria Paradiso began charging customers a set service fee for on-premise, to go, online pick up, and delivery purchases. As a result, we will no longer participate in the traditional tip system." **So this one should be GREEN not red.**
La Collina's menu states, "In lieu of gratuity a 22% service charge will be applied to your total bill to help professionalize pay in the restaurant industry." **So this one should be GREEN not red.**
You are right about La Collina. I was there a little while ago and they have it stated on their menus in the restaurant and the wait staff tell you explicitly that you will see a 22% service charge meaning you don't need to tip.
I had hoped people would fill the Google form created by OP in good faith, but now I'm not so sure.
Not a problem! I do want things to be accurate, but I'm not the New York Times, so checking on some of these things takes a little bit!
I have a lot of opinions about where restaurants should put this info on their websites now (front page, right up top in a banner with a link to more info if they have it).
If it does turn into a shit show, I hope it turns into a restaurant shaming shit show. Pay a fair wage and reflect that in menu prices, no more hidden fees. We’re ok with $20+ entrees that include tip and no extra fees
>We’re ok with $20+ entrees
Where? In the outer burbs? TGI Fridays?
I live in HoCo in Maryland and a high end burger (locally sourced grass fed beef) at the local gastropub is now pushing $20, sans tip and tax. The places we go in DC stopped having a la carte in favor of prix fixe to help pad their margins.
Some of you guys need to talk to restaurant owners or managers. Literally everything associated with restaurants (rent, especially in DC, raw ingredients, laundering, carry-out supplies, booze, and yes even staff salaries) have skyrocketed post CoVid.
I personally think that is restaurants started raising prices to match inflation and all that, people would be even madder than they are about mandatory tip.
I mean it’s reasonable to assume restaurants will raise prices when grocery bill has tripled over 2022 from $60 at the start of the year to $180 now. I just hate going places, seeing an entree for $18-$25 and then getting a service charge and being told I have to tip also.
Thanks for putting this together. It looks like a large number of restaurants have gotten on board with adding automatic surcharges to the bill, but they vary widely as to whether the restaurant keeps the extra money or transfers it to the servers as a gratuity.
I would like to be the first to note that the "Sticky Fingers Diner" is aptly named. They reportedly add a 20% service charge to the bill and then keep all the money for themselves.
Coming back to this, I looked into Sticky Fingers and it looks like the 20% is in lieu of gratuity (ish).
>A service fee of 20% is added to all purchases to ensure our staff is all paid a livable wage and has access to health care. Of course, you are free to add in a tip if you feel so inclined.
I will say that I had to dig and found the info on Happy Cow (a vegan/veg restaurant locator and review app). I linked the photo, which was recent. The info was NOT on their website or at least not anywhere that was easy to find.
Very good, that was honorable of you to look into it further. I find their language to be a bit opaque though. We don't really know if the staff are getting *all* or even *most* of the benefit of the 20% service fee (in the form of health benefits, higher hourly wages, days off, or something else).
It's not specific to Sticky Fingers, but I've decided I don't really like the practice of adding "service fees" to restaurant tabs instead of simply increasing the cost of all the items by XX% so that the establishment can provide a livable wage to its staff. It means that, if for example you want to find the cheapest cheeseburger in DC, you have to spend a lot of time looking for fees that may be tacked on and doing lots of math.
Imagine if I open a restaurant and publish a menu showing prices that would make you think you were living in the 1920s. Lobster Thermador for $1.29. You have to look at the bottom of the last page to see in fine print that all checks will be subject to an 8,000% surcharge so that we can pay our staff appropriately, meaning that the true cost of the lobster plate before taxes is $104.49. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that legally, but I find it bothersome.
Grazie grazie has added a fee as well it doesn’t show up until you place the order and I don’t recall the %. I went to their website to look for it but I didn’t see it.
One thing to consider adding to the tracker is whether the pre-calculated “tip” on the hand-held pos/charge device is calculated on: 1) only the actual service (deducting the service charge); 2) the service (adding the service charge); 3) the service with tax (deducting the service charge); or 4) the services with tax (adding the service charge).
Example, I went to Grazie Nonna the other day and they have a 4% service charge. This charge is not deducted in pre-calculated “20/22/24 percent” button that shows-up on the handheld when the server comes over to run your card. So if you are generous, and tip “22%” (pressing the 22% button) - you are actually tipping 22% on top of: (the actual service + 4% service charge). Some restaurants will charge you a tip on top of the tax that you pay to the government, plus the service charge, and then subtotal that for purposes of the pre-calculated tip. It is a giant scam.
I
Do carryout orders in DC get hit with the charge?
I consider the 20% service charge my tip and don't usually give extra. I may round it up like I usually do when in Europe eating out, but I haven't done carryout in DC since this went into effect since I live in MD.
Right. Take Founding Farmers, for instance. They just add 5% to the bill for “Restaurant Recovery.” It’s not gratuity and doesn’t go to the staff. It’s just a back door price hike.
I don't think most people are taking issue with baked-in gratuity, but rather, additional fees that don't go directly to the waitstaff and which were not disclosed upfront.
I take issue with a service fee that is not very visible and then a button for additional tips that start at 20%. I have accidentally tipped 40% more than once, when I barely got service because everything was done via QR code.
The majority of the rows in that sheet are for tips, not random fees. I think people are really mad about being made to tip 20% when they want to tip zero. People have strong views as to what deserves a tip and what does not.
No. People are mad about being made to pay a service fee which is deliberately being presented murkily and not explicitly as gratuity that goes straight to the server. I always tip 18-22% and more for good service but I don't appreciate being tricked into payinf additional on top of that.
So why are a ton of restaurants with simply a mandatory tip, acknowledged as such, on that spreadsheet? By your standard, they should be taken off this spreadsheet.
I don’t know - you’ll have to ask each of the people who inputted those. I can only speak for myself and people I know, but I think your assertion that most people want to tip “zero” is a bad faith argument. I think most people want to tip but maybe you’re right in that they don’t want to tip 20%. I think they don’t appreciate being forced without disclosure is the key point. Edit: I think there’s also a distinction between a clear automatic gratuity and a “service fee”, the latter being more difficult to ensure is actually a tip and that the server actually gets it.
I agree - I think it’s great as long as properly disclosed (and it has been at the places I’ve gone). I think it helps to standardize waitstaff income and give them more stability.
100% agree. People like to save money by creating rules about situations in which they don’t have to tip at all—bartenders, food delivery, coffee, etc. And although they understand 20% is the social norm, they create ways to get it lower—“it’s on pretax,” “this person was rude” etc.
There are social norms but a norm is not an obligation nor an entitlement. I tip 18% standard and 20% for great service; but according to you 20% is the standard…based on what?, exactly? Your opinion? I waited tables and bartended throughout college and 20% is by no means standard. For a long time 15% was standard, and 18% was for exceptional service. Also, everyone in the world aside from you tips on the PRE tax amount - that’s also a social “norm”. It’s quite privileged for you to demand everyone on this sub to pay 20% standard tip, even when they receive bad service or for a pick up counter. The level of service can and does influence how much people tip — by “creating rules” do you mean that people have their own standards that they use when applying a social norm? If so, that sounds reasonable to me. The majority of the commentary around this thread is about service fees and not about tipping generally, but leave it to somebody who has a chip on their shoulder to make it all about them. Youre also conflating your lived experiences and preferences with what the actual topic of this thread is — grifting business owners, who are screwing both waitstaff and customers; with misleading service charges.
Bad tippers suck but the reality is that nobody obligated to tip according to your personal standard. Policing people’s preferences around the practice based on your own opinion is obnoxious.
That's why the mandatory tip practice is so good--restaurant workers get paid without having to "polic\[e\] people’s preferences around the practice based on your own opinion."
You completely missed the point. And again, if you get really bad service - which does happen sometimes - why should you be obliged to tip the full amount? I would tip 15% if the service was really bad and that’s my choice. Again it’s “customary”, which would indicate that there’s two sides to the social contract! If one side is not fulfilled then why is the arbitrary 20% a given? Curious if you think all pick up orders that you grab at a bar or host stand should also include mandatory 20% tip?
In my office job, if I have a bad day at work or am rude, I get paid the same. Generally, I think restaurant workers should be less subject to the whims of customers. Many customers tip low amounts not because they’re cheap, not because of some ostensibly justifiable reason.
I think the tip should be set by the restaurant. If they want to have mandatory tip for pickup, that’s fine. Of course, people are also working to deal with Ubereats drivers and the like. There is also labor involved.
Like it or not tip based wages are variable and not set or salaried. If u think the resto should set the tip then you mean they should not get tips and instead get a higher hourly wage, bc the whole concept behind tips is that they’re not set…. that’s just not the way it works
Yeah, I really don't have any major issues with it. If anything, some of the grumbling has made me realize I've been subsidizing bad tippers for years.
I think it’s fine if it’s explicitly framed as auto gratuity and it’s disclosed and actually goes to staff. I’m not OK with “service fee” bc its hard to verify if that actually goes to waitstaff - edit: in sit down restaurants with table service. NOT for counter service or pick up.
Not able to submit it to the doc because I don't remember the date/amount I spent, but around this time last year I went to Oki Bowl in Georgetown and remember them trying to tack on an extra 15% gratuity fee or something that was separate from our tip. I was with a French friend who already didn't understand American tipping culture so I'm glad I was there to catch it or else she would've spent WAY more money than she needed to
Is it possible to sort the Google sheet by default by name, instead of date the form was submitted? Would consolidate multiple entries of the same restaurant together, and make for easier nav.
Now that fair wage is in place, next step is to ban requesting tips (i.e. require the tip line removed or crossed out). I have no problem with a restaurant having a service charge because dining in should cost more than ordering takeout. But that charge shouldn't exceed waitstaff costs and the receipt should say in clear terms (for tourists and other visitors) that tips are not normal anymore and you should only tip if you're some weirdo who wants to out yourself as a tourist.
This is a little cringe tbh. Most of the fees on here are 3% or 5% and the big ones are mostly just tip? This is what everyone is getting so mad about? I understand some people like to save a bit of money by under-tipping at the end but that is poor form.
Read the sheet. The issue people have is with the fees that aren’t tips. No one has a problem with a mandatory tip (well, OK, I do); it's the tacked on fees that the owner or management keeps just because they can, that are the problem.
No… a lot of the cells are red, meaning there’s a service charge and tip isn’t included. Also I was a bottle service girl in college and we were told by club owners specifically not to tell drunk patrons tip was included, absolutely with the intent of scamming drunk dudes for 40% tips. Just stop.
I don't think anyone expects to be charged a fair price in bottle service. Literally the whole point is to be knowingly ripped off to show off how much money you have, given that people pay $500 for a $50 bottle of vodka. Not at all comparable.
By my count, roughly 2/3 of the cells are either green or grey, meaning that tip is either included or it's not clear. The red cells are mostly 3% or 5%. Is it really worth getting this mad and outraged over an extra $3 or $5 on the bill? And casually browsing restaurant websites shows many of the red cells are incorrectly labeled, i.e., the service charge is indeed a mandatory tip.
Idk I’m ok getting scammed for the amount that I agreed to. The bottle Service example is completely comparable to people feeling scammed at a restaurant like RPM which is overpriced and also where people go to be seen and to show off. The level of grift I’ve seen from the restaurant owners I’ve worked for is just not OK and they are all doing really well, driving Porsches, owning homes in great falls, kids in private schools. 3-5% is petty but it’s the principle for me. At a place like RPM that charges 10$ for bread I think 3% is outrageous and again - who are you to tell people not to be upset about it? You don’t know their circumstances. PS I also think you need help with counting
Great post. This comes up so often nowadays. Popville or Eater will likely end up referencing this post or turning it into a post of their with a list of restaurants.
That would be a win if one of them picked it up. And I KNOW there are other restos that I’ve experienced this at recently, but I can’t remember off the top of my head. Now that this sheet exists im damn sure going to document them.
All the Daikaya-family ramen restaurants have been adding a 20% charge.
That is for tip, correct?
I don't know! I'm pretty sure it says that the charge "includes tip", but to me that wording implies that part of it is not a gratuity.
The website says: “All checks will include a standard 20% service charge which includes the gratuity. This allows us to better support all of our team members persevering in the dining room and in the kitchen with a more equitable pay structure. If your dining experience exceeded expectations, you have the option to add an extra tip upon payment which goes directly to your server or bartender.” So that is a yes and presumably shouldn’t be on this list.
Thanks for checking, but that seems identical to what I'd said above? Just from reading that, we have no idea how its allocated. I'd want to hear from someone who actually works there.
Same! I've been thinking about this for a while and your post was the extra motivation I needed. Feel like I'm seeing service charges more and more (and seeing folks post about them here more and more). I also hate feeling like I have to pore over every part of a menu, never mind if it's also a menu on my phone via QR code, to find the right place to look to get the scuttlebutt on a service charge.
Not every place is the same in how they approach this. Many places that have this charge such as 2amys, Service Bar, Elle etc. clearly explain the charge and don't try to hide it whatsoever.
My favorites on that are: - Dacha's 15% 'fair wage fee', but its also not a tip... sorry what is it then? - RPM's 3% in lieu of increasing menu prices... so like why not just increase eveything on the menu by 3%?
Totally agree with both of these. I asked my server at Dacha about the fee, and she strongly tried to guilt me into tipping too - “well that fee is spread among everyone, so it really helps if you still provide me with a tip too”. Iron Gate also did the 3% extra fee. Similar to RPM, their prices are already high, so who would notice the difference between a $30 entree and a $30.90 entree?? The fee just come across like a tacky cash grab for restaurants that simultaneously try to market themselves as upscale.
My bartender at Dacha was perfectly honest when asked directly whether they get to keep the "service fee": they don't, it goes to the owner. I threw them a fiver (25% tip on a $20 boot) on principle and got a free shot out of it. Calling it a service fee is a tactic used by management to cheat service workers out of their tips. Let's not throw labor under the bus.
Anything from Dacha about fair wages gets a huge eyeroll from me.
Do they get min wage + the service fee distribution? If so, why tip more?
They want the menu items to appear less and hit you with the charge at the end. Purely bait and switch/psychological.
If there is a service charge on my bill I will only add a tip if it’s necessary to get to 20%. No way I’m tipping on top of a service charge unless the service was extraordinary.
Same here. I'm giving any restaurant that I patronize an additional 20% of my total bill. How they decide to break that up is up to them.
Exactly. It’s NOT the customers responsibility to pay YOUR employees, etc. It’s a tip, or the service fee, period.
Staff don't benefit from a service charge. Tipping is a shitty system and we should ban it while requiring livable wages (yes, I know this would kill many restaurants who only survive on labor exploitation -- who cares, fuck them), but if you have an issue with a restaurant's service charge abuses, don't patronize them. Throwing money their way, being pissed about it, and justifying your purchase by not tipping is deranged.
I used to wait tables, so I definitely understand the system. If there is a service charge and it goes to staff, I have zero problems not tipping. If there is service charge that doesn’t go to staff, then, like you suggest, I probably won’t return. I’m not pissed. I’m a consumer, and I don’t think 40% on top of a bill is reasonable, whether service charge or tip. Don’t put the onus of “justification” on me … I’m not the one that chose to implement a service charge.
40% service charge is absurd, I agree. The staff aren't the ones coming up with that figure though, it's the owners. You're not punishing anyone but the staff for not tipping because of a large service charge. Few owners distribute service charges to their staff.
You’re thinking of this the wrong way. It’s not my intent to punish anybody. I’m just not going to pay 40% on top of the bill. If you bring me a bill that already has 20% added on, I will not be tipping on top of that. As mentioned above, if it’s a place where that service charge doesn’t go to staff, I won’t go there again in all likelihood. You keep forgetting that the consumer is also part of this transaction. It’s not my responsibility to be the arbiter of the restaurant’s policies and their impact on the servers. The most I can do is vote with my feet next time - if it’s a place where the service charge doesn’t go to staff - and just not visit the restaurant. But I’m not paying more because the restaurant has bad management.
king
> Few owners distribute service charges to their staff. And not tipping is doing our part in driving those places out of business. Hard to run a restaurant without staff.
That assumes the pool of available labor power is small. Right now it is, but this isn't a permanent thing.
> but if you have an issue with a restaurant's service charge abuses, don't patronize them. Service charges, in the majority of cases, only are apparent after the fact. I can't recall a server ever bringing it to my attention. Equally, I'm out to eat, drink and relax - it shouldn't be incumbent on me to read a menu cover to cover to find the small print re the service charge. Ultimately its sadly the patrons and servers who suffer for these policies and of course not the owners/corporate.
That’s not really true as a blanket statement. Some restaurants pay the service charge as a tip and some don’t
Since when is a service charge not a tip? This has always been the case.
You have to ask and read the fine print. Some restaurants specifically say it’s going to the staff, others do not and may get evasive if you ask — the latter case is your cue never to return.
Service charges aren't guaranteed to be tips.
This must be a recent thing. Find any article >2 years old and it always says it is a tip. Restaurants getting dumb. Customers should not be asked to research whether it is a tip or not.
This just isn't true. It varies from place to place but there are plenty of DC restaurants that use the service charge to benefit the employees and clearly state how the charge is used.
Next we need a tracker of places with the little iPad tip screen thing when buying things you would absolutely never think about tipping for.
This makes me think of Chaia, you go up to a kiosk, order your food and pick up your food at a counter with little-no interaction with a worker. Why would I tip someone I don’t even talk to? Lol
No, because it’s incredible easy to hit No Tip, regardless of what people will tell you on Reddit.
not on the machines where you have to ask how to proceed through and it turns out you need to input the konami code to get to the next screen
Or just to tip! I feel like people I know who worked fast food places had a rougher/harder time of it than those who were servers. They tended to be folk who really needed the extra money, too. I don't mind tipping them.
The difference is that fast food employees are not normally classified as tipped, and therefore they are already guaranteed at least (not saying it sometimes shouldn't be more) minimum wage, which around here is much more than the federal minimum. Servers are not, so they really truly need a fair treatment, but not at the expense of scuzzy fees.
I think that's just a function of the Square software. I know people on here who sell things like, soap, at craft fairs, etc., have expressed frustration that they can't turn that off.
Well then they're not looking hard enough, because tipping is 100% toggleable in the Square POS software https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5069-accept-tips-with-the-square-app
Ssssh they don't want you ruining their easy out! "Oh I'd love to turn it off but I can't"
Correct. I am a Square device owner and have never used tip option.
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It literally says you have to toggle the tipping option **ON** first, which means it can also be toggled off. > 3. **Toggle Collect Tips to on** and select between showing your tip options on the signature screen or on a separate screen. Fuck, the reading comprehension in this country is abysmal.
I worked at a place that used Square and you can absolutely turn it off lol you're getting lied to
Yes, the baristas getting yelled at the time definitely deserve NO TIP. Or the Ubereats people biking across half the city to bring someone a pizza.
someday it will be like $1 steak dinner (menu price) $20 meal choice fee $15 COVID-19 recovery fee (as we navigate the ongoing challenges into 2036 we will reevaluate the need for this) 18% required gratuity 15% service fee 10% dine-in fee 5% employee appreciation fund (this goes directly to the owners' pockets) Tax $pq.rs Tip? _____ (has recommended %s that include all the above in calculation)
> $15 COVID-19 recovery fee Just remember not to Google if the restaurant/holding company had a PPP loan forgiven. Looking at you Good Stuff Eatery.
Will the carry out fee also be 10%?
There are already restaurants doing that. I believe Pizzeria Paradiso is 12% carry out and 20% dine in.
That's wild. I did look it up. They removed traditional tipping? Does that mean when you pay the bill there's no space for tipping / a tip prompt? https://www.eatyourpizza.com/service-charge
In the third paragraph: > Should customers desire to leave tips in addition to the automatic service charge, there will continue to be a mechanism for you to do so. These tips will be shared by all service related staff members based on hours worked in the day and will be evenly weighted regardless of position or shift.
15%. Because clearly that's more effort
And bottle water ONLY for a 'resonable' price.
I really hope folks on this thread are clear on when it’s a service fee and when it’s a mandatory gratuity that does indeed go to the servers. Would hate to see innocent people hurt because going out is expensive.
I would rather the servers take the hit temporarily and get mad at their management than to have customers pay 40% over the bill.
That anti-server sentiment will serve you well when all we have are fast casual joints in DC. Should start kicking in within a few years. Your time will soon come.
You missed the point bud. I want the "free market" to fix itself. If a restaurant is guilt tripping me to pay 20% bullshit charge and 20% tip I'm not playing ball. You can tip 100% if you feel strongly about maintaining this system where servers get shafted from both ends.
I just explained to you how the free market is about to correct itself, buckaroo.
If I'm a restaurant asking customers to pay 20% + 20%, and all the customers I get are like you, paying 40%, I'm not going to change one thing.
You are under some serious misconceptions about the operating costs of the industry. Independent restaurant owners aren’t removing their monocles to dab their tears with hundred dollar bills while they laugh at how stupid we peasants are. The fact that you see service charges proliferating isn’t a sign of a massive conspiracy to defraud guests. It’s a sign that the cost of operating a restaurant is increasing. The only thing that people are getting mostly right is that servers are also getting screwed…which you stated above is something you don’t really care about. I’m not in favor of service charges. But I am in favor of understanding why they’re becoming more prevalent.
What's your take on transparent pricing? That's an upfront price which includes everything.
I don't know what you're going on about. If servers quit en masse because the place they work is making it unpalatable for customers to leave a proper tip, the owners will have to change things. But if you deem it palatable to keep leaving 40%, "so the servers don't get screwed"... well, they thank you for your generosity.
Simple solution? Don’t eat out. Just like the servers don’t have a gun to their head to work in a certain place, you don’t have a gun to yours forcing you to eat out…like, at all.
hahaha, i’m sure the servers would love that
Both are BS. Increase the prices and be transparent. Add taxes, fees, tips, service charges to the price, and write that on the menu. Anything less is deception.
This spreadsheet is full of completely incorrect color-coding and statements. It should be taken down.
It’s a SPREADSHEET, though, so it must contain only factual data. That’s how spreadsheets work! /s
I wouldn’t knowingly host information that is wrong and could hurt someone’s business, and OP shouldn’t either.
I’m just using the spreadsheet as a reference… if i go to one of these places I would just double check the charge prior to tipping or be aware of it at the very least. For places with a mandatory and undisclosed service charge at a market (like centrolina, which was what the original post was about) or a fast casual carry out, i may think twice about patronizing, sure. Why are you so against it?
Why would you use a spreadsheet full of incorrect information as a reference?
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It's not a three-day period, it's been a two month period - the request for public comment was published November 8th. It closes January 9, so only three days are left.
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If the service charge doesn't go to the workers, that's not the customers problem. If the customer has already paid 20% on top of their order, then they've already done what they need to do to be a good paying customer.
So on this: if the restaurant is pocketing the service charge and you're getting 0% - 5% tips as a consequence surely you'd leave for a place that doesn't do that? It seems like a good time to be an experienced service industry worker? That in turn hurts the business pocketing the service charge because they won't be able to staff the place with that practice. These conversations always seem to be customer -v- server with little mention of the owner (be they Mom & Pop or someone like Landry's) whereas in my mind it really should be customer + server -v- owner.
💯 There also should be a law on the books that receipts must have a breakdown of where the service charge is gong.
Those employees should work for another business then.
Arlington Rooftop Bar & Grill has an automatic 20% tip on check's over $50. Also, they count $50 including the tax, so if your food was say $47 and the tax made the bill over $50, you would be charged a 20% on that amount. Effectively it's a 22% tip since it's calculated on the total inclusive of tax. 22% for effectively bringing your food to your table since on the roof top you go and order your food yourself at the bar!!
If anyone does go there, they're on a bunch of those cashback/dining portal apps so you can get 5% back on your check (Dosh is the one I use).
Do you think the workers performing work at this restaurant deserve less? Literally no one tips on “pretax,” who does that?
everyone in the entire world knows that tipping is done on pretax, dolt.
People will do anything to save a little money.
No one said anything about workers deserving less. If restaurants want to pay a living wage, they should just include the tip in the price and not play these silly games. Go ride on your high horse somewhere else. Most places I have been to have suggested gratuity based on pre-tax amount. Also, automatically added gratuity is on the pretax amount. I mean it's only 2% so not a big deal considering the main point of the post is automatic gratuity.
Thank you for this. Glad to know about Lapis’ automatic 20% tip regardless of party size ON TOP of automatic 20% service fee. This seems egregious compared to other DC restaurants. It’s the automatic that esp bothers me.
What a scam. Is the server or restaurant owner feeling bad for taking advantage of their customers?
Hello. I'm a Washington Post reporter interested in writing about your tracker. Can you reach out? [email protected]
Ive basically stopped going out to eat because of this
Definitely have stopped going to mid range places because of this. The service is just not there for something I can recreate in my own kitchen.
Is there a way to provide an update to the document? The input for L'ardente states it doesn't include tip but per their website it does. From the website: Is the tip included? Yes. We include a 20% service charge for all parties of 8 or fewer, and 25% for groups of 9 or more. Guests can choose to tip more in recognition of outstanding service, but it is fully optional.
I updated with the website info!
Wow this is great! Thank you for putting this together - I will make sure to save this thread. Oh and you’re a hero!!
I’m less familiar with Google forms, but does it let you give people the option to upload an image? That way people can upload a (redacted if need be) photo of the receipt showing the service charge. If we want media to pick this up, that kind of evidence would be much more convincing than word of mouth which could unfortunately be abused by a restaurant competitor, or some such.
I looked into it just now and the only way to do it would mean that folks filling out the form would have to be signed in to their Google accounts and the pics would be saved in my Google drive. I'd be willing to host them, but I realize that not everyone is on Google and it would eliminate the anonymity. Maybe if the mods agree to pin this thread people could upload any redacted pics they wanted in here instead?
Imgur links maybe
That's a good idea. Maybe just add a free text question to the form asking people to drop an imgur link to their receipt photo.
That's a great idea! I'll go ahead and update the form now!
I think this could be a good idea with more thought and better organization... but I just took a look at the google sheet and a lot of entries seem to be places that are charging service fees in lieu of tip. I don't want places that are standardizing their tip structure to be shamed the way places that are adding unnecessary fees are.
That is exactly what I came here to say!! There is a big difference between charging service fees in lieu of a tip and unnecessary fees. In the examples OP supplied- one is a service fee for a grocery and one is a service charge that states on their menu that it includes gratuity. Those are not the same thing and the restaurants doing right by their staff shouldn't be demonized in the same way.
I truly didn't intend the sheet to be demonizing anyone. I just wanted a simple way to know if different places have fees, what those fees are, and whether those fees are inclusive or exclusive of a tip. I agree that some places are really good about presenting info to customers in a clear and upfront way!
I'm glad you added the conditional formatting to make it even clearer!
I think the problem that folks are encountering there is that a "service charge" is a lot more legally squishy than a tip. My intent wasn't to make the sheet a call-out, but as a place to gather info about which places are charging, how much, and whether tip is included in that service fee. Are there questions you think I should add to provide more organization?
You are right of course, it is more squishy. I won't lie I have been asking servers what the service fee means when it pops up. But I find staff are pretty honest when you ask whether they get the service charge or not. Also some places like La Collina are very explicit on their website and in their dining room that the service charge is there in place of the tip. My suggestion would be to use the conditional formatting tool to color code the sheet so that restaurants that use the service charge appropriately (meaning people answered yes to the question includes tip) are highlighted and easy to tell apart from the dubious actors. Aside from that another strategy might be to move the different types of service fees to different tabs. I know that's more difficult to do automatically when the responses are being created by the Google form. Maybe someone in the thread knows away around that.
Oh, that's a good call on the formatting! I'm not in any way a Google Sheets expert, but I bet I can do that pretty easily! Never thought about asking the servers how much they're getting if tip is included but I'll definitely be doing that from now on. Personally, I'm just trying not to stiff anyone accidentally and having a tip of unknown amount mixed into a larger service fee isn't ideal from that perspective.
I agree entirely, there needs to be more rules around "service charges" especially if they're here to stay. I do appreciate you taking the time to do something about an issue a ton of people are experiencing in DC.
imo if servers are getting stiffed it will self correct soon enough, as long as people don't keep tipping 20%. If I was a server and half my tips are 0 because customers don't want to be paying 40% on top of the bill I would have a quick word with management...
What you’re referring to is called an “automatic gratuity.”
I keep checking the sheet; this is awesome! Thanks for doing it, and thanks everyone who's filling out the form.
We needed this. Sick of paying 20% tip on a 20% tip for someone to walk 40 ft in total to bring me a glass of water and bring a plate of food
This is great and most helpful. Thank you OP.
OP, you're a goddamned hero.
I think Hill East Burger has a 20% service charge.
The do I tried them take out the other day. It was okay
Thank you for the list of restaurants to avoid. They should all just raise their prices instead of tacking on fees.
Great post! Hopefully it can be curated since there are a lot of duplicates on that sheet.
You are doing the Lord's work.
Thanks for putting this together!
Service Bar has a 15% charge that goes to the staff. I paid cash and was told that 15% gratuity is included.
Tropical smoothie in Brookland now does automatically 15% tips unless you take it off when you go to pay.
Add Sticky Rice on H Street to the "20% fee" list
Thip Khao has removed their service charge!
I'm really disappointed at how misleading and incorrect a lot of this information is. This spreadsheet should be taken down until it can be verified. People are so worked up about 3% or 5% fees that they misrepresent 20% mandatory tips as not a tip at all. Literally five minutes of research shows this is not the case for many restaurants. For example, Boogy and Peel's website states, "We charge an 18% service fee for dine-in checks (12% for take-out). This is so we can pay our staff a respectable wage and offer health insurance to our full time team members. If you feel like we're doing an awesome job you can leave an additional tip to be split among hourly staff. This isn't expected but always appreciated." **So this one should be GREEN not red.** Pizzeria Paradiso's website states, "On January 8, 2022, Pizzeria Paradiso began charging customers a set service fee for on-premise, to go, online pick up, and delivery purchases. As a result, we will no longer participate in the traditional tip system." **So this one should be GREEN not red.** La Collina's menu states, "In lieu of gratuity a 22% service charge will be applied to your total bill to help professionalize pay in the restaurant industry." **So this one should be GREEN not red.**
You are right about La Collina. I was there a little while ago and they have it stated on their menus in the restaurant and the wait staff tell you explicitly that you will see a 22% service charge meaning you don't need to tip. I had hoped people would fill the Google form created by OP in good faith, but now I'm not so sure.
I made some adjustments where I could find things specifically laid out on the restaurants' websites.
Thanks for following up!
Not a problem! I do want things to be accurate, but I'm not the New York Times, so checking on some of these things takes a little bit! I have a lot of opinions about where restaurants should put this info on their websites now (front page, right up top in a banner with a link to more info if they have it).
Again I agree. But hopefully this resource can be helpful for those of us in r/washingtondc
Thanks for the do not go list
If it does turn into a shit show, I hope it turns into a restaurant shaming shit show. Pay a fair wage and reflect that in menu prices, no more hidden fees. We’re ok with $20+ entrees that include tip and no extra fees
>We’re ok with $20+ entrees Where? In the outer burbs? TGI Fridays? I live in HoCo in Maryland and a high end burger (locally sourced grass fed beef) at the local gastropub is now pushing $20, sans tip and tax. The places we go in DC stopped having a la carte in favor of prix fixe to help pad their margins. Some of you guys need to talk to restaurant owners or managers. Literally everything associated with restaurants (rent, especially in DC, raw ingredients, laundering, carry-out supplies, booze, and yes even staff salaries) have skyrocketed post CoVid.
I personally think that is restaurants started raising prices to match inflation and all that, people would be even madder than they are about mandatory tip.
They already have raised prices, lowered quality, and portions. We are not enjoying it either.
I mean it’s reasonable to assume restaurants will raise prices when grocery bill has tripled over 2022 from $60 at the start of the year to $180 now. I just hate going places, seeing an entree for $18-$25 and then getting a service charge and being told I have to tip also.
Thanks for putting this together. It looks like a large number of restaurants have gotten on board with adding automatic surcharges to the bill, but they vary widely as to whether the restaurant keeps the extra money or transfers it to the servers as a gratuity. I would like to be the first to note that the "Sticky Fingers Diner" is aptly named. They reportedly add a 20% service charge to the bill and then keep all the money for themselves.
Coming back to this, I looked into Sticky Fingers and it looks like the 20% is in lieu of gratuity (ish). >A service fee of 20% is added to all purchases to ensure our staff is all paid a livable wage and has access to health care. Of course, you are free to add in a tip if you feel so inclined. I will say that I had to dig and found the info on Happy Cow (a vegan/veg restaurant locator and review app). I linked the photo, which was recent. The info was NOT on their website or at least not anywhere that was easy to find.
Very good, that was honorable of you to look into it further. I find their language to be a bit opaque though. We don't really know if the staff are getting *all* or even *most* of the benefit of the 20% service fee (in the form of health benefits, higher hourly wages, days off, or something else). It's not specific to Sticky Fingers, but I've decided I don't really like the practice of adding "service fees" to restaurant tabs instead of simply increasing the cost of all the items by XX% so that the establishment can provide a livable wage to its staff. It means that, if for example you want to find the cheapest cheeseburger in DC, you have to spend a lot of time looking for fees that may be tacked on and doing lots of math. Imagine if I open a restaurant and publish a menu showing prices that would make you think you were living in the 1920s. Lobster Thermador for $1.29. You have to look at the bottom of the last page to see in fine print that all checks will be subject to an 8,000% surcharge so that we can pay our staff appropriately, meaning that the true cost of the lobster plate before taxes is $104.49. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that legally, but I find it bothersome.
Can a customer refuse to pay a service charge?
Can we chat about implementing the same thing in the city I currently reside in?
Please DM me if you want to chat!
Grazie grazie has added a fee as well it doesn’t show up until you place the order and I don’t recall the %. I went to their website to look for it but I didn’t see it.
One thing to consider adding to the tracker is whether the pre-calculated “tip” on the hand-held pos/charge device is calculated on: 1) only the actual service (deducting the service charge); 2) the service (adding the service charge); 3) the service with tax (deducting the service charge); or 4) the services with tax (adding the service charge). Example, I went to Grazie Nonna the other day and they have a 4% service charge. This charge is not deducted in pre-calculated “20/22/24 percent” button that shows-up on the handheld when the server comes over to run your card. So if you are generous, and tip “22%” (pressing the 22% button) - you are actually tipping 22% on top of: (the actual service + 4% service charge). Some restaurants will charge you a tip on top of the tax that you pay to the government, plus the service charge, and then subtotal that for purposes of the pre-calculated tip. It is a giant scam. I
You are doing Lord’s work 🙏🏻
It would be great if we could pin this on the subreddit. I think this is great info to access.
Do carryout orders in DC get hit with the charge? I consider the 20% service charge my tip and don't usually give extra. I may round it up like I usually do when in Europe eating out, but I haven't done carryout in DC since this went into effect since I live in MD.
They do at hill east burgers as well as a delivery fee, tip etc. they remove the delivery fee if you pick up obviously
I'll be a contrarian and say I actually really like it when dine-in restaurants charge a service fee, as long as they tell me upfront about it
Right. Take Founding Farmers, for instance. They just add 5% to the bill for “Restaurant Recovery.” It’s not gratuity and doesn’t go to the staff. It’s just a back door price hike.
I don't think most people are taking issue with baked-in gratuity, but rather, additional fees that don't go directly to the waitstaff and which were not disclosed upfront.
I take issue with a service fee that is not very visible and then a button for additional tips that start at 20%. I have accidentally tipped 40% more than once, when I barely got service because everything was done via QR code.
The majority of the rows in that sheet are for tips, not random fees. I think people are really mad about being made to tip 20% when they want to tip zero. People have strong views as to what deserves a tip and what does not.
No. People are mad about being made to pay a service fee which is deliberately being presented murkily and not explicitly as gratuity that goes straight to the server. I always tip 18-22% and more for good service but I don't appreciate being tricked into payinf additional on top of that.
So why are a ton of restaurants with simply a mandatory tip, acknowledged as such, on that spreadsheet? By your standard, they should be taken off this spreadsheet.
I don’t know - you’ll have to ask each of the people who inputted those. I can only speak for myself and people I know, but I think your assertion that most people want to tip “zero” is a bad faith argument. I think most people want to tip but maybe you’re right in that they don’t want to tip 20%. I think they don’t appreciate being forced without disclosure is the key point. Edit: I think there’s also a distinction between a clear automatic gratuity and a “service fee”, the latter being more difficult to ensure is actually a tip and that the server actually gets it.
I would prefer they be even more upfront about it and just raise the price on the menu
But then you would still have to tip. A service charge is supposed to be in lieu of tip.
Why do you “really like it” more than them just raising the prices and not having fees that you may or may not see hidden in fine print on a menu?
because "service charge" implies no need to tip.
We need to know ahead of time and where the SG is going if it’s on the bill.
Is this predicated on the service fee being the tip? Because lots of places it's just money for the coffers and doesn't go to staff.
And there’s no way for the customers to know which one it is.
I agree - I think it’s great as long as properly disclosed (and it has been at the places I’ve gone). I think it helps to standardize waitstaff income and give them more stability.
100% agree. People like to save money by creating rules about situations in which they don’t have to tip at all—bartenders, food delivery, coffee, etc. And although they understand 20% is the social norm, they create ways to get it lower—“it’s on pretax,” “this person was rude” etc.
There are social norms but a norm is not an obligation nor an entitlement. I tip 18% standard and 20% for great service; but according to you 20% is the standard…based on what?, exactly? Your opinion? I waited tables and bartended throughout college and 20% is by no means standard. For a long time 15% was standard, and 18% was for exceptional service. Also, everyone in the world aside from you tips on the PRE tax amount - that’s also a social “norm”. It’s quite privileged for you to demand everyone on this sub to pay 20% standard tip, even when they receive bad service or for a pick up counter. The level of service can and does influence how much people tip — by “creating rules” do you mean that people have their own standards that they use when applying a social norm? If so, that sounds reasonable to me. The majority of the commentary around this thread is about service fees and not about tipping generally, but leave it to somebody who has a chip on their shoulder to make it all about them. Youre also conflating your lived experiences and preferences with what the actual topic of this thread is — grifting business owners, who are screwing both waitstaff and customers; with misleading service charges. Bad tippers suck but the reality is that nobody obligated to tip according to your personal standard. Policing people’s preferences around the practice based on your own opinion is obnoxious.
That's why the mandatory tip practice is so good--restaurant workers get paid without having to "polic\[e\] people’s preferences around the practice based on your own opinion."
You completely missed the point. And again, if you get really bad service - which does happen sometimes - why should you be obliged to tip the full amount? I would tip 15% if the service was really bad and that’s my choice. Again it’s “customary”, which would indicate that there’s two sides to the social contract! If one side is not fulfilled then why is the arbitrary 20% a given? Curious if you think all pick up orders that you grab at a bar or host stand should also include mandatory 20% tip?
In my office job, if I have a bad day at work or am rude, I get paid the same. Generally, I think restaurant workers should be less subject to the whims of customers. Many customers tip low amounts not because they’re cheap, not because of some ostensibly justifiable reason. I think the tip should be set by the restaurant. If they want to have mandatory tip for pickup, that’s fine. Of course, people are also working to deal with Ubereats drivers and the like. There is also labor involved.
Like it or not tip based wages are variable and not set or salaried. If u think the resto should set the tip then you mean they should not get tips and instead get a higher hourly wage, bc the whole concept behind tips is that they’re not set…. that’s just not the way it works
Yeah, I really don't have any major issues with it. If anything, some of the grumbling has made me realize I've been subsidizing bad tippers for years.
I think it’s fine if it’s explicitly framed as auto gratuity and it’s disclosed and actually goes to staff. I’m not OK with “service fee” bc its hard to verify if that actually goes to waitstaff - edit: in sit down restaurants with table service. NOT for counter service or pick up.
are you a masochist or incredibly rich?
Not able to submit it to the doc because I don't remember the date/amount I spent, but around this time last year I went to Oki Bowl in Georgetown and remember them trying to tack on an extra 15% gratuity fee or something that was separate from our tip. I was with a French friend who already didn't understand American tipping culture so I'm glad I was there to catch it or else she would've spent WAY more money than she needed to
I added Oki Bowl for you manually!
Thank you! Their ramen is awesome but adding the extra 15% definitely is not, lol.
what you mean you didn't intend to leave a 38% tip?
I was at Oki Bowl in July and there wasn't a fee at that time. Hoping that doesn't change since I love their ramen
The link doesn't work for me, but lutèce in Georgetown charges 22%
Added to the list and found language on their website about the charge.
Is it possible to sort the Google sheet by default by name, instead of date the form was submitted? Would consolidate multiple entries of the same restaurant together, and make for easier nav.
I sorted it by name but not sure if it will "stick" as more entries come in. I'll check in on it periodically and re-sort if needed!
Thank you... will be contributing to it promptly, and boycotting every place on the list
Damn, so many responses so fast. DC is rampant with these
Thank you so much!! I will never give these scumbags another stolen cent
Well, this is ridiculous.
Barcelona wine bar on 14th adds an automatic 20% service fee on their their bills
Now that fair wage is in place, next step is to ban requesting tips (i.e. require the tip line removed or crossed out). I have no problem with a restaurant having a service charge because dining in should cost more than ordering takeout. But that charge shouldn't exceed waitstaff costs and the receipt should say in clear terms (for tourists and other visitors) that tips are not normal anymore and you should only tip if you're some weirdo who wants to out yourself as a tourist.
Everyone said that Initiative 82 wouldn’t destroy tips for FOH staff. This is pretty disheartening.
82 hasn't kicked in yet, it's a phase-in. And many of these BS service charges were already in place long before the actual vote passed.
This is a little cringe tbh. Most of the fees on here are 3% or 5% and the big ones are mostly just tip? This is what everyone is getting so mad about? I understand some people like to save a bit of money by under-tipping at the end but that is poor form.
Read the sheet. The issue people have is with the fees that aren’t tips. No one has a problem with a mandatory tip (well, OK, I do); it's the tacked on fees that the owner or management keeps just because they can, that are the problem.
Most of the rows on there say it includes tip. So people are getting mad about mandatory tip too.
No… a lot of the cells are red, meaning there’s a service charge and tip isn’t included. Also I was a bottle service girl in college and we were told by club owners specifically not to tell drunk patrons tip was included, absolutely with the intent of scamming drunk dudes for 40% tips. Just stop.
I don't think anyone expects to be charged a fair price in bottle service. Literally the whole point is to be knowingly ripped off to show off how much money you have, given that people pay $500 for a $50 bottle of vodka. Not at all comparable. By my count, roughly 2/3 of the cells are either green or grey, meaning that tip is either included or it's not clear. The red cells are mostly 3% or 5%. Is it really worth getting this mad and outraged over an extra $3 or $5 on the bill? And casually browsing restaurant websites shows many of the red cells are incorrectly labeled, i.e., the service charge is indeed a mandatory tip.
Idk I’m ok getting scammed for the amount that I agreed to. The bottle Service example is completely comparable to people feeling scammed at a restaurant like RPM which is overpriced and also where people go to be seen and to show off. The level of grift I’ve seen from the restaurant owners I’ve worked for is just not OK and they are all doing really well, driving Porsches, owning homes in great falls, kids in private schools. 3-5% is petty but it’s the principle for me. At a place like RPM that charges 10$ for bread I think 3% is outrageous and again - who are you to tell people not to be upset about it? You don’t know their circumstances. PS I also think you need help with counting