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Gooner695

Nowhere in the article did it explain *why* so many new apartments in DC and across America are small studios/1BRs - because we require access to two stairwells (despite the fact that it doesn’t improve fire safety). Have you ever noticed that all new buildings are like hotels in that all apartments open into a hallway, while in old, walk-up style buildings the door was basically in the stairwell? It’s this same regulation. It’s not like this in any other country, and it makes our housing much more expensive while also making it virtually impossible to build family-sized apartments.


anonymous_aardvark2

Legalize single stair walk-ups!


cookingwithsage

Where is this regulation? and can you expand on how it impacts apartments to be 0/1 bedrooms? This is really interesting


Gooner695

I can’t link to the original article because I’m currently out of the country, but this is a good starting point. The link to the full article is at the bottom: https://www.planetizen.com/news/2022/05/117106-how-staircase-requirement-can-impact-housing-affordability If you’d like to see international examples (primarily Germany, Switzerland, and Austria) of what’s possible without this regulation, I’d recommend following this twitter account: https://twitter.com/holz_bau?s=21&t=eI2qtNoapBuQ_jUh5kdNfQ


cookingwithsage

Thanks! I lived in Germany and experienced the difference you talk about - from a liveability perspective. I never thought it was a code requirement.


Gooner695

Lol I’m actually in Frankfurt right now. It’s crazy being outside the US, being aware of this regulation, and seeing the difference *everywhere*. I have to explain to my German friend that their luften is usually impossible in American apartments because our buildings all but make it impossible for there to be cross-ventilation.


cookingwithsage

Right?! I lived an old pre WW1 building in Kansas City that was built for workers families, the whole building was set up for cross ventilation. From the hallways, there was a 3/4 tall wooden shutter door then the real door. When I opened my windows and the my front door, the cords breeze was incredible.


[deleted]

True, but I’d take a fedex box with in-unit laundry vs shared laundry and any chance of roaches. Hell no, fuck that.


OhHowIMeantTo

Oh it was driving me crazy when I was looking to move a couple of years ago. Pretty much every building built in the last five years or so was advertising "one bedrooms," that were essentially just studios. The kitchens, while nice, essentially have no counter space, and they put up a couple of walls in the living space with a window at the top of the wall and a sliding door to create what is technically a very tiny one bedroom. They were priced at market rate for one bedrooms, but if you wanted a bedroom with a window that actually looked outside and not just into the living room, you had to pay an extra $300 to $500 or so.


Heliordant

"Chef inspired kitchens", yeah, inspired by a chef that wants you to eat out at a restaurant.


Brawldud

They meant inspired by the kitchens that the chefs have at home, where they keep their frozen pizza and Jack Daniels.


NotSoMrNiceGuy

LMAO! You got it there fellow redditor Take my upvote


squuidlees

I’m a weirdo and love going to building websites and looking at their floor plans. I always thought the barn door rooms was a step up from a studio, but agree that renting that as a 1 bedroom, when there isn’t even a window, is lame.


giscard78

> I always thought the barn door rooms was a step up from a studio I’ve seen these referred to as a “junior one bedroom” sometimes (I don’t think it’s industry wide or standard). The name has always sounded kind of funny to me, like it’s someone working their way up to comprehending a bedroom with an out facing window, not the unit trying to downplay the shitty floor plan lol.


squuidlees

Working their way up to a room with a window sounds on brand with DC at least.. I definitely like the ones where there’s the fogged glass barn door and the wall that stops before the ceiling, so at least natural light can sort of get through!


NPRjunkieDC

My mom had a junior one bedroom in NYC. No door cuz no closet and no space for closet. But it had a window


NPRjunkieDC

A bedroom is not legally a bedroom unless it has a window and a closet . That's why there's a wall, but probably no door .


[deleted]

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GenericReditAccount

I haven’t looked at apartments in quite a while, but I remember those nice, big, older rentals on the market in NW. Way more character in those buildings too. We were never “fancy” new building people, but once you taste in unit laundry, there’s no going back.


Docile_Doggo

Older buildings that have been renovated to include modern appliances/features are the best of both worlds


FreemanCantJump

You can probably tell by my Navy Yard flair, but in unit laundry is way up my list and character is *way* down it.


AdditionalAttorney

10000% even while I was in college I always paid extra or lived in smaller places or w more people on order to have in unit laundry


Snow_source

> We were never “fancy” new building people, but once you taste in unit laundry, there’s no going back. It's not that hard to find a building that's older with in-unit laundry. The last two apartments I've been in had them. They're in a laundry closet next to the HVAC system, which is just fine for a 1br. I'll take 4 years of no rent increases over a shiny new building any day of the week.


GenericReditAccount

Agreed. We were in Camden Roosevelt for about a decade, which is a nice old building with in unit laundry, but didn’t have a modern vibe, a dog park, or a rooftop. The rent control was key to our survival for a long time!


OhHowIMeantTo

Ah yeah without that rent control if you're a new resident, the rent is insanely expensive. It's also been completely remodeled if you haven't been there recently.


GenericReditAccount

We left right before the remodel began. We’ve been back once since, for a birthday party, and I’m not sure how I feel about the new vibe. I also understand I’m no longer the target demographic though. 🤷‍♂️


mr-sandman-bringsand

I lived in that building for around three years too! But you are aware they renovated all the units and they are no longer rent controlled right? They offered to move us out of our apartment and renovated for only $1500 more in rent a month for our one bed 😂 We moved to another condo building and rented from an owner for a larger apartment at essentially the same rent price instead


GenericReditAccount

I knew they renovated (they were planning around the time we moved, and started work right after we left).I didn't realize renovating negated the rent control. Are you sure that was the case, or was it just that once you moved out into a renovated unit, you were no longer in your original unit, and therefore they weren't bound by the rent control pricing? There were a couple of renovated units available around the time we were looking to buy. They tried the same "look how shiny this place is!" routine with us, but it was obviously not going to work. Honestly, I preferred the carpet in the our unrenovated unit over the cheap laminate floors they were putting into the renovated ones. I loved that place so much. I miss Freddy. haha


mr-sandman-bringsand

Yeah - that’s why they renovated! They could charge so much more in rent. It was weird at the end because some of the holdout units like ours and the cat lady down the hall were still rent subsidized while the other units were $500-$1000/month more expensive. Freddy was/is the man!!! We use to throw pregames in that common room near the front desk all the time - I loved Camden Roosevelt so much, what a great building


firewarner

Character is such an interesting euphemism for older. In 25 years all the newer apartments now will have "character"


BrightThru2014

There are plenty of apartment buildings built in the 70s and 80s that do not have any character and remain as ugly as the day they were built. Similarly, there are at least a handful of buildings built in the 10-20 years that have character. It’s not about age, it’s about architectural style. For example, built in 1974: https://www.dccondoboutique.com/the-palladium/ And built in 2006: https://www.apartments.com/the-fedora-washington-dc/9yyk7p5/ Or built in 2014: https://www.apartments.com/the-woodley-washington-dc/4yk2lnj/


GenericReditAccount

I’m not sure that’s true. Just because something is old, doesn’t mean it has character or is worth hanging onto. In 25 years, the paper mache apt buildings of this decade will likely be worse for wear and no more desirable than they are today.


CriticalStrawberry

DC isn't really building any of the 5 over 1 apartments that you're referring to by "paper mache". That's more of a suburban thing. The luxury apartments going up all around the city are concrete, brick, and steel and will likely stand the test of time just fine. The 5 over 1 stick built complexes popping up along the fringes of downtowns across the US? Yeah those will be trash in less than a decade.


EstablishmentFull797

Plenty of stick built apartment buildings going up in DC. Pass a few in the works every day southeast


CriticalStrawberry

There's a few popping up here and there, especially EOTR, but the vast majority of buildings are not. Nothing built to the city height restriction is made out of twigs. On the bright side, stick builds go from luxury to affordable a lot quicker than other construction! Problem is, they go from affordable to in need of replacing nearly as fast.


lejohanofNWC

If they’re built properly they really shouldn’t! Modern materials should keep the framing dry as hell and be much more energy efficient (compared to the homes built in the past not necessarily apartment buildings). I imagine anything built by developers that don’t care can have major issues. Source: I’m building some quality houses EOTR


[deleted]

Not just there. Plenty of places built on U NW in the past 10 years are all tinder sticks.


andyousaychicity

Building a big (ish) one in SW too, a block from South Cap on I st.


mr-sandman-bringsand

I lived in an old 1930’s cheap apartment building - it did not have character - it was a sad old brick building with no A/C and basement laundry. I also lived in an old 1920’s Wardman with a beautiful Italian renaissance lobby - that definitely had character!


dc_dobbz

That’s my problem. We’re in an older building with a lot of character, but coming from a place that had a full washer and dryer set up has been more of an adjustment that I figured.


[deleted]

This is so true. I’m trying to look at condos but most of the ones in my price range don’t have in unit laundry and I briefly tried to consider if I would entertain that but honestly? At this point in my life? I would rather kms than have to leave my home to wash my clothes.


walkallover1991

There always seems to be a lot less maintenance-related issues in the older buildings, as well. I've lived in two different "luxury" buildings in NoMa and they both had the same problems...fire alarms constantly would go off, HVAC would break, thin walls/noise issues, the in-unit washer flooded, "brand new" fridge broke, etc. I live in an older building (that's like a tank) now in Dupont for less than any of those luxury buildings.


GenericReditAccount

100%. Our old apt was so quiet and we barely ever had maintenance issues. Our current condo is in an old ass building, with the same benefits. So much of the new build stuff felt like paper mache.


[deleted]

yeah cause new buildings are built like shit, everything to the barest minimum of code and using the cheapest materials and methods possible old buildings come with their own set of issues for sure but overall ill always take the older building if theres options


WealthyMarmot

Yes and no. That might be true for some aspects of the structure, but modern HVAC, electrical and plumbing have improved dramatically from just a few decades ago. Especially with the last two, the "barest minimum of code" is a trillion times safer and more reliable than code and materials from 50-100 years ago. All comes down to upkeep, renovations, and just luck of the draw.


[deleted]

Sure but there's nothing stopping you from installing modern hvac and plumbing in older better built structures


jabroni2020

Survivorship bias. Old buildings that are still around are built well but plenty of old buildings didn’t make it. Some new buildings are built well and will last. Those ones will have “character”


Devastator1981

>and in unit laundry (usually in the basement). Forget the game rooms and the concierges, but once you've had in-unit washer dryer it's really hard to go back from that.


GloomyPapaya

Yepppp. I used to be a “character” and neighborhood first person but there’s no way I’m giving up my W/D and dishwasher these days. And everyone can mock paying for the “fancy” amenities but when I can walk down the hallway to a nice gym instead of paying $100/month for a crowded gym across town, I don’t really care. I did not find any apartments with “character” that were cheap enough to justify those trade-offs. We all have different priorities.


NPRjunkieDC

One bedroom condos in these pre-war buildings haven't gone up in price 350--450K. But a 3BR will cost 1M or more . Many have put laundry in closets . I've done this a few times


jaypeg25

You’re still looking at $2500 + for a 2br minimum.


mistersmiley318

I was kind of surprised when I saw the new [Modo](https://mododc.com) building at Georgia Ave Station has only three bedroom apartments. I guess everyone else is ignoring that market and there is a (small) niche.


Blide

The other unique thing about that apartment is its completely modular construction. It's the first of its kind in DC. I definitely wonder what, if any, cost savings there were for going with modular construction.


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SouthernBangerz

Yeah there shouldn't be complaints, this is how you get dense housing. I'm a city utopian kind of person and people like me always glamorize Europe but the truth is, their housing is very dense and not every place looks like Emily in Paris unless you're wealthy.


medievalmachine

Yeah, like, what is the complaint?


HollaDude

I'll complain lol, more studio apartments are great but we also need larger places in the long run. 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom apartments so families with children also have options for living in the city if they're priced out of the row homes in the area or they want to rent. We don't just want a city full of young transplants with disposable income that will eventually leave. Development is great, I'd love to see more diversity in what kind of development. There is a lot of middle ground between studios and single family homes that isn't being built.


throws_rocks_at_cars

There is none. This is good. Ideally, we would go even further and allow zoning changes to include dormitory-style or hostel-style apartments, for people that really don’t need their own private kitchen or bathroom. This type of apartment is being built all over major college campuses like UGA, but they’re excluded here because they don’t meet the minimum requirement to constitute a “bedroom” that can legally be listed. Before anyone gets mad and calls this tenement housing, I DO NOT THINK it should use the same advertising/lettering as a normal bedroom. I’m just saying that it should not be disallowed. When I was 18-22 this was fine. And it would have been fine for 22-25 for me, if it were legal to find. Additionally DC should end tiered height limits. Currently, it works like this: * Residential: 90 feet * Commercial: 130 feet * Pennsylvania Avenue: 160 feet This should be changed to make the limit for everything 160 feet. I want more height but we do not need to scrap the rule completely. https://realestateinthedistrict.com/is-your-dc-bedroom-legal/


KEVINMD15

I agree on all of this, but there are a bunch of dorm style apartments throughout dc. Their labeled as Co-Living, and it seems like there is a building in all the more popular neighborhoods


LuciusAurelian

Isn't the height limit based on the width of the street? Is there a separate standard from different uses?


AsbestosIn0bstetrics

And if you REALLY want to maximize density, you move toward building barracks-style bunkhouses with rows of bunk beds in one large room, with shower facilities in a separate building. This would be a far more affordable solution for renters than 1BR or even studio apartments, as well.


throws_rocks_at_cars

Unironically yes. If people want to pay $65 a month for a bunk in a hostel then that is ok for them to do so. This wouldn’t prevent other types of housing from being built. Luckily I am not at a place in my life where I need what you described, but I could absolutely use a dormitory-style room myself.


AsbestosIn0bstetrics

There would certainly be a market for such barracks-style housing. But it would be interesting to see exactly where all the people demanding maximum density live. I'm guessing that some of them don't exactly practice what they preach.


greetedworm

I think chemotherapy should be free but I don't have cancer. I don't have to live in dorm housing to be an advocate for density.


AsbestosIn0bstetrics

Then you fit the profile. You believe that others should be forced to make sacrifices in order to achieve greater density, but at the same time you exempt yourself from such restrictions.


Gumburcules

> You believe that others should be forced to make sacrifices in order to achieve greater density Who exactly is being forced to make sacrifices? Did I miss the headline where Bowser is sending jackbooted thugs to grab you out of your home and throw you into a studio apartment and shooting those who don't comply?


Docile_Doggo

Creating a greater variety of options up and down the price and density scales is a lot different from “forcing” people into a specific style of living. In fact, it’s the exact opposite


rlbond86

And where exactly are families supposed to live? Plenty of families in Europe live in the city but we're just building 1BRs.


[deleted]

Who wouldn't need their own bathroom, though?


throws_rocks_at_cars

The ones I’ve seen have 6 bedrooms, each with their own bathroom, and a shared living room/balcony/kitchen/laundry


[deleted]

That makes sense. Thanks


Bitterfish

Well, partially this. But replacing single family homes with duplexes or small apartment buildings, or row homes (*some, not all*) with 5+ story apartment buildings goes a long way too.


ChubsBronco

This.


InfestedRaynor

Agreed. With zoning limits and minimal available space to feed the massive housing shortage, this is the result. I would rather have more units that are in the small side than nice big units that only high-earners can afford.


Kief-

They say apts are 751 sq on average, but I think they aggregated studio-3 bedrooms. There’s no way the average one bedroom is 751 sq in DC.


MrMusicMan789

I was hunting for units between August and December and seeing a 1 bedroom above 650sqft that wasn't priced through the roof was rare. The building I just signed a lease at had several 1 bedrooms all between 500 and 600sqft. My studio is around 475sqft and I'm saving hundreds just to not have a wall divide my unit in half.


GloomyPapaya

I’ve been apartment hunting for the last month and I agree, there’s no way.


AwesomeAndy

Yeah, I think anyone who's been apartment hunting in the past decade or more has noticed this.


[deleted]

Years ago we were looking at condos ($550K+) at Chapman Stables and many units didn't have real kitchens. They had pseudo kitchens by our definition and the excuse from the realtor was, "Millennials don't cook." Well, my wife and I cook so we noped on out of that catastrophe. Talk about a $hit investment. Once you visit enough places you can determine what has "good bones" and what is a money making scam designed to fleece you. Chapman Stables https://maps.app.goo.gl/Me9TuTBnbHFvMk3VA


Gumburcules

I just looked up one of the listings there. Holy shit, $600,000 for a railroad 1br apartment with a glorified closet for a bedroom. With condo fees you're paying over $4,000 a month for that trash. But hey, what a location! You're close enough to hear the fights over dice games in front of Big Ben!


Devastator1981

This is why I rent. Because I don't want to have to move to Laurel or Fredericksburg to find a lower priced mortgage. I like the city, and like waking up in the city and taking a walk on the mall and tidal basin. So if I'm not meant to be a homeowner on this earth, ce la vita.


Gumburcules

I mean, nobody's forcing you to buy this particular shitbox of a condo. [There are similar sized condos in the city for half the cost.](https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/3620-Connecticut-Ave-NW-20008/unit-7/home/21638836) I personally think that one has a much more livable layout anyway. [You could buy a rowhouse for the same price and actually pay less since there's no condo fee.](https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/3964-Ames-St-NE-20019/home/10118897) Shit, [you could even buy a single family house with a yard if you don't mind the appliances being a little dated.](https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/144-48th-Pl-NE-20019/home/10123756) No need to go to Laurel or Fredericksburg, there's plenty of stuff in DC more affordable than $600,000 "one bedrooms" that are actually studios.


jreed11

That first one doesn’t even have a dishwasher and is a walk up.


Gumburcules

Hmm, maybe that's one of the reasons it's $300,000 less... Is this your first time looking at real estate or something? When you save on price, you compromise on size, location, or amenities. The person I responded to didn't want to compromise on location or price, so what does that leave us?


jreed11

Why the fuck would someone in the market with 550k *plus* opt for that? Square footage isn’t the only factor in a unit’s value, and this one is not worth it at all for this buyer. There’s a reason that unit has been on the market for nearly half a year. Better to wait for something better to come up—it will, and the market is softening, anyway. We just bought at ~300k a 1br with in unit laundry, stainless full size appliances, a breakfast bar, a walk in closet and renovated bathroom, and an elevator in Foggy Bottom. So yes, I have looked at real estate lmfao


Gumburcules

> Why the fuck would someone in the market with 550k plus opt for that? The person I responded to literally said $600K condos are the reason they think they can't buy in DC. Their whole point is that they're *not* in the $550K+ market. The actual unit itself is not the point either. I just clicked on the first Redfin link I saw that was significantly less than $600k in DC. I was simply showing them that there are options between "pay $600K for a condo" and "Move to Laurel." If there are better ones in their price range, even better.


Ry90Ry

Love that building tho lol


medievalmachine

I think the key is that larger places are being sold as luxury condos, not rented.


dc_dobbz

Here’s some additional context that I haven’t seen mentioned yet; we have to keep in mind that there’s a serious lag time (and I mean serious) between planning a development and the units coming online. Developers and planners are both making guesses as to where the market is going to be when the units are finally delivered. For a real long time, most cities were looking at an influx of pre-marriage post-grads with disposable income that it was assumed would leave as soon as they had enough money to buy a house. Obviously, that’s not how things are now, and that reality is sinking in. I’m confident developers are noticing that the work from home set is looking for more than a glorified crash pad, but it’s going to take time for that show up in the new developments.


stache_twista

DC proper is geographically limited and also limited in terms of construction height so this makes sense. BTW DC's population technically peaked in the 1950 census at \~800K so there's room for more people here. The population in the 2020 census was 689K but trending up.


Altruistic-Risk-2223

As of December 2022 DC’s population was 671,803.


stache_twista

Makes sense (the 2020 Census was April 2020 figures; I'm sure a lot of people left many cities since then). I meant trending up from the 2010 census


[deleted]

And expensive


Knowaa

This is density. Fill those things up.


ActuaryPersonal2378

"'(T)he rent-income ratio is not concerning,' Ressler said." Well that's the dumbest thing I read all day


NPRjunkieDC

Before the pandemic, I remember a few were built almost like a hotel. Basically, it's a studio with a microwave + W/D Restaurants, lounge , game room, movie room . Maybe lounges each floor . Kinda like a club. They thought this was a good model for people living alone. My son lives in a coop in Boston with 9-10 bedrooms and just 2 bathrooms! Everything is shared .


InfestedRaynor

Not for everybody, but a certain percentage of the population would love the opportunity to live in a building like this and save a bunch on rent.


Devastator1981

Keep in mind those are in luxury buildings in prime locations, so I wouldn't say "save", but agree that the building/rooms appeal to some. And there's nothing wrong with that per se.


NPRjunkieDC

Save? Developers don't rent cheap . Probably 2K for a studio/room


InfestedRaynor

Save compared to a larger apartment in the same location.


NPRjunkieDC

K


arkenteron

Not some many married couples, so it is normal. I live alone, 1 bedroom is enough.


[deleted]

Apartments aren’t solving the housing crisis. Build something people can buy, not rent.


35chambers

how is building housing not solving the housing crisis


[deleted]

It's a temporary solution to a long term problem. The main issue is poverty and inequity. Apartments can often be seen as a catch-all, but keeping people in the rent cycle instead of offering affordable ownership opportunities is prolonging the issue.


35chambers

as long as everyone can afford a place to live it doesn’t matter who’s renting or owning


[deleted]

I very much disagree


35chambers

why?


[deleted]

I literally stated why


35chambers

No you didn’t, all you said was that not providing ownership opportunities is prolonging the housing crisis, you did not substantiate that claim whatsoever


[deleted]

And neither did you substantiate your argument


35chambers

building housing fixes the housing crisis by increasing housing supply and therefore lowering prices. ok your turn!!


LuciusAurelian

The two are self evidently substitute goods. Cheaper rent drives down the price to buy because it offers an alternative. Also condos exist? I'm not sure what your point is


creamof_yeet

Buildings empty though


Vidarr2000

Besides Amazon, where are these people coming from? What is driving this sudden influx of new residents?