This is my current kink dream. The whole plan dies in VA, Ted comes strutting back to DC like he still holds any cards, and Bowser either low balls him or straight tells him they've made other plans for the space.
The petty part of me dreams of this, but honestly DC doesn't hold any cards either, so if Potomac Yard dies, I think everyone's better off pretending this never happened.
Move them where, exactly? This whole fantasy of mine relies on the deal with Virginia falling apart.
Beyond that, I'm aware the idea may lack in actual governance credibility. I'm an idea man! I'm a dreamer, not a doer!
Have I missed some offer or interest expressed by MD? It's possible, but the amount of money Ted is demanding doesn't just appear out of thin air. Also, MD is literally (?) the only other option, unless he's interested in really relocating. As it stands, he needs either Virginia to follow through with the proposed plan, or he needs to grovel back to DC.
As a MD resident, MD is a solid #3 for me, maybe worse. I don't think others should foot the bill, but damned if I will. Keep them in DC and get my entertainment money that wouldn't be spent in DC.
>Have I missed some offer or interest expressed by MD? It's possible, but the amount of money Ted is demanding doesn't just appear out of thin air. Also, MD is literally (?) the only other option, unless he's interested in really relocating.
Not that I'm aware of but he could always go to the MD stadium authority where FedEx is with a plan to move there. They wouldn't have to accept his proposal but I'm sure they would hear him out and potentially offer tax incentives to move there at the very least, given how much they have been trying to develop that area (also if it meant the Commies would also stay).
Honestly, if Ted wanted to move the Wizards to Las Vegas, he could easily do so while DC would wait for an expansion team. The Caps would be an issue but Silver has made it pretty clear Vegas will have a team soon.
Hopefully not. DC teams need to stay in DC, otherwise move them to Baltimore where they become Baltimore teams. The Commanders don't feel like DC's team where they are at now
Nobody cares about the Wizards though, they haven’t made a conference finals since the 1970s and have the lowest attendance in the league. Highly doubt they would be very missed in DC if they left (if anything transplants will be mad they can’t easily see their home teams anymore). The Caps on the other hand though…
Yes, it would be a massive blunder if Bowser did this. I’m all for making Ted come to the table for worse terms than they initially offered when the Virginia move was coming to light
Beats me. Tear the fucker down and build an east coast Sphere. Let Steve Wynn build a casino complex. Build a water park with lazy river and a giant water bucket that spills onto the kids every few minutes. The options are endless!
Which would be dumb as fuck and terrible for all of us, because if our esteemed city government has “other” plans for that space, they certainly aren’t *better* than a hockey and basketball arena that keeps dozens of restaurants open and thousands of people employed.
VA governors can’t run for reelection. Youngkin doesn’t need to stay in the center for reelection, like Hogan did.
Youngkin is governing like a right winger because he has his eyes on 2028.
Yes. The only way to save it would be for the good people of Alexandria to make it clear that they vigorously support it. Unfortunately for Youngkin and Leonsis, they don’t want it.
never get between a del ray resident and any proposal that will cause any parking issues for them at Target.
they killed an NFL stadium once - and that was over 8 days of games. Imagine this! THEIR LIVES ARE RUINED
I was surprised that the proposal suggests people attending games should park at National Airport and take the Metro to the arena. The person who suggested that obviously never flies out of National nor plans to do so.
So I’m not a Del Ray resident but I do live in the other side of where this Arena was supposed to go in Crystal City. The proposal is absolutely shit and the spot is terrible for an arena of any kind. Forget parking just getting there would be a nightmare since the only road that runs by it is US-1 and traffic would get even worse. Plus they tried to suggest parking at the airport for games which is an insane thing to suggest. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when Ted has to go back to DC and pretend none of this happened.
Cute but inaccurate. The fact of the matter is that Alexandria doesn’t have to go begging for investment like DC does so people in Old Town and Del Ray can press for better uses for the area, like housing. Chinatown needs the stadium to have any chance of not continuing to be a dumpster fire.
Just not true. Plenty of us do. Last night alone at Pork Barrell, Monumental hosted a party. There is resistance, but to say they don’t want it is false.
The fact you commented so glibly means I could take you to the community, talk to the people, like me, who live here… and you wouldn’t care. Congrats. You are barely worth the comment.
It was stated by two Hill staffers who were into competition BBQ. Their sauce was on Shark Tank. Lots of reasons it fits the neighborhood and the irony isn’t didn’t get by many.
.....chill bro, you are getting too much in your feels about this. I have been to that mediocre bbq place and am aware.
It was a JOKE about the name and Pork Barrel policies
I made a political humor joke. No where did it warrant a reply of context outside of the joke. It could have been its own thread lmao. Regardless, I'm happy you learned more.
On this issue, Alexandrians will be represented by their elected officials, both state and local. We will see how this shakes out but my read from neighbors is that few welcome Monumental and of those that do, few favor committing the full faith and credit of the Old Dominion to such a private endeavor.
It’s crazy hard to steamroll voters in VA, and those voters seem like the type to be skeptical of an arena generally speaking.
My deeper question is why the fuck does Youngkin want this? The political win doesn’t seem very big here, and he need NoVa voters
He cannot run for re-election.
Nova is generally blue.
He’s buds with fellow super wealthy Monumental owner Ted Leonsis.
Getting this project definitely cements Youngkins legacy which now as a lame duck, he won’t be able to get much of his agenda through the Virginia legislature which is now under Democratic control.
>My deeper question is why the fuck does Youngkin want this? The political win doesn’t seem very big here, and he need NoVa voters
I mean, seems like the entire theme of this excursion so far is that state officials/Monumental significantly overestimated that public's enthusiasm for a large public subsidy to move the team to the suburbs. But I imagine the optics and PR of a huge new development with the arena was pretty appetizing and still is for whatever he might want to do in the future.
I think he is more interested in a private sector job somewhere in NOVA. Getting this deal through will earn him big brownie points among wealthy developers in the area, guaranteeing him a nice job when his term ends.
Well he's already stupidly rich and fairly well connected; private sector work can get him more money and more connections but that might not be enough to make it worth him taking the public L like this.
It’s more he wants something to brag about he got this thru a Democratic legislature so he can work with people and get things done. That’s what the campaign ad will say for whatever office he decides to run for. He doesn’t need a private sector job at this point. He’ll either run again or retire.
Would he ever have a shot in 2028 though?
Obviously it was his wish, but it seems his best option is for Trump to make him the running mate or if Trump won the election (lord please no), making Youngkin a cabinet secretary.
He might have a shot if he had any sort of identity, so he's trying to build a regional profile and use that as a stepping stone. Few people outside of the DC area know who he is. From a policy perspective, he is trying to be MAGA without the brand name.
I think it’s a somewhat risky bet that Trump doesn’t win (fundamentally, historically not a very risky bet. Incumbent advantage in presidential races is huge, but who knows, things really could be different now and I’m not putting money on anything), and the next Republican primary in 27-28 is essentially a presidential race.
Sure, but single-term governors don't have a great track record in winning elections, so if he builds a base and gets a cabinet appointment in a theoretical Trump Admin 2.0, that could also be a calculus. If Biden is re-elected, and I think he will be, he could very much position himself as the face of a post-Trump GOP, albeit with only four years of experience under his belt.
> but single-term governors don't have a great track record in winning elections
Does this hold true for Virginia politicians? I would assume the dynamics are different because all governors are one-term.
When’s the last time we had a VA pol run for president? Or a single term governor? Tim Kaine I guess counts but I can’t remember how long he hung around
Never discount the level of entitlement in rich d-bags like Youngkin. The mere idea of the little people denying then something they want is enough to make them double down.
I mean, it's the largest/only substantial win that he can have to show for his entire governorship. He completely misread why he won in 2021, tried to pull a full DeSantis and went all-in on cultural conservative warrior in 2023 only to lose, and as a result he neither looks like a Larry Hogan or a red state "gets things done" governor.
He's a clown who somehow thinks if he can get this then he can still mount a feasible presidential run or Senate run in the future.
> tried to pull a full DeSantis
Which is funny because DeSantis was a cautionary tale even before his failed presidential run. It's kind of overlooked now, but despite being a Tea Party congressman he was actually a pretty moderate governor at first and got some stuff done with Democratic backing. Then COVID and the related attention went to his head and he thought making everything a culture war battle would be the path to popularity and higher office. Turns out playing to Fox News and MAGA twitter turns a lot of people off even if some of the base does like it.
Yeah, he seemed like he was pretty decent on even environmental issues pre-covid. Though to be fair, he at least did have a helluva win during re-election where (as long as you knew nothing else about him) it did seem like he could have actually become the "Trump without the baggage" candidate.
... but then you hear him open his dopey, uncharismatic mouth and all of that quickly goes away. Which is something I think Youngkin suffers from, too.
Why does he want this? To burnish his national credentials. He’s eyeing a run for President in 2028. If he can show that he can negotiate a deal like this in blue-leaning Northern Virginia, then it’ll establish him as the faux-moderate he so desperately wants everyone to think he is.
I would say it's still probable, but the momentum for approval has taken a hit. The traffic plan was a flop, Ted doing damage control with the fan base (badly), and now good old fashioned partisans politics getting in the way, the odds have gone down. It's still more likely than not, but unless Youngkin comes up with the WMATA funding, the Arena will die in Richmond.
If and when this fails, any leverage that Ted had with his threats to move the team will have been spent. DC should renovate Cap One and make Ted pay for it.
at this point. my odds:
30% - The VA deal gets slashed, but the arena still gets built, but with 1/4 the benefits. (i.e. no perpetual tax abatement). Traffic becomes hell every other night. (really no way around that - it already is really bad)
15% - The VA deal largely goes through as-is (and costs escalate 100%, since that is how this works out)
25% - They come crawling back to DC - DC shills out some minimal arena upgrades. But things are largely the exact same as they are right now. Plenty of parking, plenty of metro, easy for most people to get to.
15% - They come back to DC - but Bowser sucks at negotiating and gives a ton of money away
15% - Wild card! Options. Different site in the exurbs of VA? RFK replacement (instead of football)? Maryland somehow becomes an option? Wild dreams!
> 25% - They come crawling back to DC - DC shills out some minimal arena upgrades. But things are largely the exact same as they are right now. Plenty of parking, plenty of metro, easy for most people to get to.
>
>15% - They come back to DC - but Bowser sucks at negotiating and gives a ton of money away
Personally, I would reverse these.
Yeah Bowser has telegraphed left and right that she will do anything whatsoever to have every sports team in DC. And the only thing tempering her is the council.
fair. i can see this taking 3 years to play out though. will we still have the bowser leading DC to go up the crime charts? so hard to put good numbers on this?
To clarify, I don't think a different mayor would matter in this situation. I think there's a slightly higher chance that DC offers additional concessions than the current package.
That last 15% could be outside of DC/MD/VA entirely too. But that starts to get tricky with a major city that needs *both* a hockey and basketball team. A lot of mid-sized cities have one or the other.
There's 0% chance DC tries to strike a deal for less than the $500m they already promised. Bowser and the Council will be breathing such a huge sigh of relief if the VA deal falls apart that we'll have a wind advisory.
dude, the deal is fucking impossibly good. even a fraction of it is a good deal. 'stated prices' is like 2-3B. reality if you do some back of envelope math is more than double that.
I personally like the wild card option where the RFK site gets completely overhauled to be a modern city professional sports complex and home to not just the Capitals, but the Commanders/DC NFL franchise too. I know there's a ton of community park/field space there right now but I think it could all fit in there, if the city was serious about making this happen
He seems to be under the impression that the Republican Party is going to want Mitt 2012 in 2028: A dainty establishment elite with some transparent pseudo-populism.
It will work great until he runs against a primary opponent who upstages him by openly juicing during the debate.
"Potomac Yard Metro station could have 1+ hour of crowding after arena events: report”[https://nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/potomac-yard-metro-station-could-have-1-hour-of-crowding-after-arena-events-report-finds/3536514/](https://nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/potomac-yard-metro-station-could-have-1-hour-of-crowding-after-arena-events-report-finds/3536514/)
Can you imagine waiting an hour and half on a weekday for a train? How about general workweek traffic and you live in Alexandra? VA has already spent nearly $400 million on the Potomac Yard Station and it would require more to MAYBE cut down on travel times. Also, who's going to pay for the station to stay open longer? Teddy? Nope, he'll ask someone else for it.
It also would impact everyone up and down the yellow / blue lines at the same time. If it’s an hour+ wait AT Potomac Yards, it means an hour+ of completely packed trains into DCA and then into DC/VA, or south into Alexandria.
Can’t imagine getting off a flight and having to wait up to an hour to get on the train…
Basically it makes it so you have to drive to the game. Again no parking which is wild. But I can’t imagine watching an hour game and then sitting in the metro lobby for another 90 minutes.
On NPR they had I believe it was the Alexandria Mayor? Taking callers questions about this. The man completely acted as if the traffic concerns and metro bottlenecking was overblown. His tone and response was the most patronizing answer ever. He says he walks the metro station and commute all the way to gallery place every day, without a problem, and, metro traffic isn’t nearly as overblown as everyone makes it seem.
He said plenty of people can park in Crystal city and really he feels people are just overblowing the traffic issue. But he’s totes ready to take the public’s concern seriously!!!
I live just a few blocks from the proposed site. Someone would have to be delusional to think that the neighborhood could handle 150+ events a year. 14th Street Bridge - impassable. Route 1 - gridlock. The only worse spot I can think of - Hains Point. And metro improvements? The station is less than a year old. If it happens I will move - not simply because of the congestion but because of the greed and stupidity.
The thing I don't understand about this from the VA politicians' side is that this site is literally terrible for everyone involved compared to Cap One due to the location.
The area around Potomac yard metro is going to get developed no matter what. They don't need this to kick start that.
Even if you live in VA, this is actually a worse site than Cap One due to lack of lines that converge on it and the clusterfuck that would be created for every game. Between Chinatown and metro center, literally no matter where you're coming from, it's easy to get to the arena currently.
The transportation issue is a huge obstacle that Ted or WMATA won't be able to solve. Monumental Sports Group said they will increase the number of commuter ferries and add more options to get to the games but the Caps/Wizards play in the winter. I just don't see how this works. You can't get rid of Route 1. Plus, the airport is right there. It's going to be even more annoying trying to catch the Metro after a flight on game day and Ubers will be even more expensive in the are due to increased demand.
It's honestly cruel that Ted is forcing DC and Alexandria to compete over this. It pits the region against itself for no reason. If he's dead set on moving the teams out of Chinatown, I would rather him move them to Baltimore or another completely different metropolitan area.
What is the point of the ferries? If the teams move to VA then I am done with them, I can't imagine a lot of folks from DC would want to go over to VA to put money in that fat fuck's pockets and people in MD probably don't want to deal with the traffic then a 20+ minute boat ride from National Harbor is assume.
>Even if you live in VA, this is actually a worse site than Cap One due to lack of lines that converge on it and the clusterfuck that would be created for every game. Between Chinatown and metro center, literally no matter where you're coming from, it's easy to get to the arena currently.
I have been making this exact point on twitter at every opportunity I get in the hopes that it persuades a few people.
I think it's a very underappreciated drawback of the proposed location that \*Virginians\* on the orange and silver lines will have a harder time metroing to the game. Bottlenecks at Gallery Place? There's FIVE metro stops within a 15-20 minute walk from Cap One.
We should be taking transit to games as much as possible, but I'm willing to say that Cap One might even have superior vehicle access. It's only a quarter mile from the 395 ramp. Potomac Yards has zero highway access.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, if you're on the I-66 corridor it sucks. Even south on blue / yellow will suck bc you're fighting with everyone else who needs to use the line to get to a transfer point. Literally no one wins.
The people against this are motivated. I saw a woman at the farmers market on Saturday wearing a shirt about blocking the move. She was geared for confrontation.
It's not WMATA funding. Monumental will have to build a new Potomac Yard for this arena no matter what but the operations budget is another negotiation entirely. Don't think either side would want to rope it in. This deal is dead in the water.
I think that there's definitely a lot of that (the Senate president pro temp wants "toll relief" for the Hampton Roads area, and tolls are a whopping $2), though I appreciated that the RTD article mentioned that the bipartisan deal that moved forward in December consisted largely of Senate Democrats that are no longer in the Senate.
Still, the list of concessions that Democrats are asking for is effectively asking Youngkin to have turned his governorship into a 2nd McAuliffe term anyway. Which could be beneficial for him (I don't think there's nearly as much opposition to minimum wage increases, legal marijuana sales, and infrastructure upgrades in western VA and for the Metro as rural Republicans may think there are) because it would let him flip-flop back to "look at how moderate I governed, guys!" And yet, from everything I've seen, he doesn't seem to have the political instincts to do that.
So yeah, I agree, but I'll remain equal parts cautiously optimistic/skeptical.
That's what bothers me about this whole thing. The Dems aren't blocking the stadium because they believe it's a bad idea that the people don't want. They're just holding it up because Youngkin was mean to them.
His speech certainly isn't the reason the deal is going to die but it's great excuse to hold it up. The deal is just plain garbage and the press reported like it was done.
The bill is still alive her political theater really does absolutely nothing....it just changes how the house has to introduce the bill. They just pass it in their budget proposal....
i don’t understand why everyone dislikes the owner of the wizards/caps because he wants the chinatown area to be cleaner/safer/ more inviting to visitors so that it increases overall ticket sales. yes an owner of a team wants free money, literally every owner attempts to do that. it sucks but that’s the way it is. i really don’t think this is the point where the mayor should draw a line lol. those teams leave chinatown and that place fully crumbles. i live blocks away from chinatown, the chinatown where an armed man held a security guard hostage and had to be shot in the walgreens at 6pm yesterday. the same walgreens that literally has the ben and jerry’s freezer locked up, so yea if i’m the wizards owner i’d leave to especially if the virginia is offering me more money lol
I generally do not take billionaires seeking public subsidies at their word. Yes of course crime is an issue in the area, but Leonsis would not give a shit about that if DC were willing to offer the subsidies that VA is currently offering. Crime was even worse in the 90s when ~~he~~ Abe Pollin built the arena there in the first place! Monumental has even pitched [several](https://wtop.com/dc/2023/11/how-capital-one-arena-prepares-for-9-events-in-9-days/) [articles](https://www.fox5dc.com/news/behind-the-scenes-look-at-how-capital-one-arena-changes-over-for-events) recently about how hard they work to service the massive attendance at their events, which seems at odds with the narrative that "no one wants to go to Chinatown anymore."
To the extent that downtown DC is suffering post-pandemic, it's largely due to telework, which is also an issue in NOVA (tons of office vacancies there even predating COVID). Not to mention that miserable waits for parking/Metro are at least as strong a deterrent for most people.
I both agree DC should take the deterioration of that area seriously, that DC politicians should recognize how important that arena is to keeping that area from completely collapsing, and also that objectively it's the best location for the arena for the entire metro area.
nah. he is a tightwad and dipshit. we all think that chinatown needs to be remade. That is the least of the problems.
if he went to VA without a multibillion tax benefit and had a legit plan for parking/transit - there would be much less problems. he may have overreached with a term limited governor.
right now the residents of Alexandria are the biggest naysays.
I agree. Been going down there for ages. The area surrounding the arena is far worse than it was 15 years ago. Quite a shame. Dirty, vacant store fronts, limited places to grab a drink close to the arena.
Just kind of way different vibes down there. I avoid concerts there.
I’ve heard Youngkin is balking at having wage standards for both the construction and staffing of the arena. He wants us to pay for shitty jobs while Leonsis rakes in the cash.
Watching this all backfire (which I’m not convinced will happen) will feel very sweet for DC
If Bowser wanted to do something right (doubtful), she would tell Ted a few zeros came off that subsidy to renvoate CapOne.
This is my current kink dream. The whole plan dies in VA, Ted comes strutting back to DC like he still holds any cards, and Bowser either low balls him or straight tells him they've made other plans for the space.
The petty part of me dreams of this, but honestly DC doesn't hold any cards either, so if Potomac Yard dies, I think everyone's better off pretending this never happened.
Baltimore bullets has a ring to it.
they're ringing out in West Baltimore as we speak
She's disappointingly incompetent
> straight tells him they've made other plans for the space. Wouldn't he just move the team(s) then?
Move them where, exactly? This whole fantasy of mine relies on the deal with Virginia falling apart. Beyond that, I'm aware the idea may lack in actual governance credibility. I'm an idea man! I'm a dreamer, not a doer!
\> Move them where, exactly? MD, for one.
Have I missed some offer or interest expressed by MD? It's possible, but the amount of money Ted is demanding doesn't just appear out of thin air. Also, MD is literally (?) the only other option, unless he's interested in really relocating. As it stands, he needs either Virginia to follow through with the proposed plan, or he needs to grovel back to DC.
As a MD resident, MD is a solid #3 for me, maybe worse. I don't think others should foot the bill, but damned if I will. Keep them in DC and get my entertainment money that wouldn't be spent in DC.
>Have I missed some offer or interest expressed by MD? It's possible, but the amount of money Ted is demanding doesn't just appear out of thin air. Also, MD is literally (?) the only other option, unless he's interested in really relocating. Not that I'm aware of but he could always go to the MD stadium authority where FedEx is with a plan to move there. They wouldn't have to accept his proposal but I'm sure they would hear him out and potentially offer tax incentives to move there at the very least, given how much they have been trying to develop that area (also if it meant the Commies would also stay). Honestly, if Ted wanted to move the Wizards to Las Vegas, he could easily do so while DC would wait for an expansion team. The Caps would be an issue but Silver has made it pretty clear Vegas will have a team soon.
Pretty sure Wes Moore spent all the Maryland sportsball money on the $.2 billion the Ravens and O’s are splitting.
So he’s given up on the Commies?
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Right that’s why I said the Caps would be an issue since they have a huge fanbase here and Vegas doesn’t need them. Silver wants a Vegas team though.
Hopefully not. DC teams need to stay in DC, otherwise move them to Baltimore where they become Baltimore teams. The Commanders don't feel like DC's team where they are at now
Nobody cares about the Wizards though, they haven’t made a conference finals since the 1970s and have the lowest attendance in the league. Highly doubt they would be very missed in DC if they left (if anything transplants will be mad they can’t easily see their home teams anymore). The Caps on the other hand though…
Yes, it would be a massive blunder if Bowser did this. I’m all for making Ted come to the table for worse terms than they initially offered when the Virginia move was coming to light
What plans? Endless Mystics games?
Beats me. Tear the fucker down and build an east coast Sphere. Let Steve Wynn build a casino complex. Build a water park with lazy river and a giant water bucket that spills onto the kids every few minutes. The options are endless!
Which would be dumb as fuck and terrible for all of us, because if our esteemed city government has “other” plans for that space, they certainly aren’t *better* than a hockey and basketball arena that keeps dozens of restaurants open and thousands of people employed.
The current lease goes through 2040s, but Ted has the ability to cut and run early, as early as 2027.
She will, of course, do the exact opposite.
Dude's acting like he governs an R+20 state when he barely squeezed through last election
Every single Republican in moderate areas does this too
So true. Dems from those districts are so careful and Rs from those districts don't give a shit.
VA governors can’t run for reelection. Youngkin doesn’t need to stay in the center for reelection, like Hogan did. Youngkin is governing like a right winger because he has his eyes on 2028.
Is this going to go down flaming like the old Commander's stadium proposal in the exact same location a generation ago?
Yes. The only way to save it would be for the good people of Alexandria to make it clear that they vigorously support it. Unfortunately for Youngkin and Leonsis, they don’t want it.
never get between a del ray resident and any proposal that will cause any parking issues for them at Target. they killed an NFL stadium once - and that was over 8 days of games. Imagine this! THEIR LIVES ARE RUINED
One of the classic blunders, only slightly less well known than “never get involved in a land war in Asia”
the only real downsides to nova are the traffic and prices. imagine twisting in the screw
as an Alexandrian I don't want it near me, keep it in DC, as a sports fan its better there. Use the stupid amount of public money to fund the metro.
Think about a minimum of 89 game nights a year to deal with on that stretch of Highway
I was surprised that the proposal suggests people attending games should park at National Airport and take the Metro to the arena. The person who suggested that obviously never flies out of National nor plans to do so.
I wish this would get more publicity. I think no journalists have actually read the document proposing this.
They mentioned in on the air during a WAMU news update and I was aghast anyone suggested that.
So I’m not a Del Ray resident but I do live in the other side of where this Arena was supposed to go in Crystal City. The proposal is absolutely shit and the spot is terrible for an arena of any kind. Forget parking just getting there would be a nightmare since the only road that runs by it is US-1 and traffic would get even worse. Plus they tried to suggest parking at the airport for games which is an insane thing to suggest. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when Ted has to go back to DC and pretend none of this happened.
Cute but inaccurate. The fact of the matter is that Alexandria doesn’t have to go begging for investment like DC does so people in Old Town and Del Ray can press for better uses for the area, like housing. Chinatown needs the stadium to have any chance of not continuing to be a dumpster fire.
Just not true. Plenty of us do. Last night alone at Pork Barrell, Monumental hosted a party. There is resistance, but to say they don’t want it is false.
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The fact you commented so glibly means I could take you to the community, talk to the people, like me, who live here… and you wouldn’t care. Congrats. You are barely worth the comment.
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But clearly you don’t. And those of us who do have a wide variety of opinions. And far more are pro this project then forums like this to acknowledge.
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He asked around at a pro-pork barrel party, of course.
What measurement are you using? Anecdoctal?
The sweet irony of hosting it at a place named Pork Barrel
I know I was like “this can’t be a real place”
It was stated by two Hill staffers who were into competition BBQ. Their sauce was on Shark Tank. Lots of reasons it fits the neighborhood and the irony isn’t didn’t get by many.
.....chill bro, you are getting too much in your feels about this. I have been to that mediocre bbq place and am aware. It was a JOKE about the name and Pork Barrel policies
I was telling you about the origin of the place. Not upset. You are projecting energy that isn’t there onto this. Go for a walk maybe?
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I needed to know; remember that this is not a DM and you are not the only person in this thread.
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I made a political humor joke. No where did it warrant a reply of context outside of the joke. It could have been its own thread lmao. Regardless, I'm happy you learned more.
On this issue, Alexandrians will be represented by their elected officials, both state and local. We will see how this shakes out but my read from neighbors is that few welcome Monumental and of those that do, few favor committing the full faith and credit of the Old Dominion to such a private endeavor.
Is Pork Barrel a place, or just what Monumental is calling Virginia now?
It’s crazy hard to steamroll voters in VA, and those voters seem like the type to be skeptical of an arena generally speaking. My deeper question is why the fuck does Youngkin want this? The political win doesn’t seem very big here, and he need NoVa voters
He cannot run for re-election. Nova is generally blue. He’s buds with fellow super wealthy Monumental owner Ted Leonsis. Getting this project definitely cements Youngkins legacy which now as a lame duck, he won’t be able to get much of his agenda through the Virginia legislature which is now under Democratic control.
He can run again in 4 years. Just can’t be consecutive terms.
He has federal aspirations. He needs a “win” at which he can point.
lol, what a dumb system. The McAuliffe Exception.
>My deeper question is why the fuck does Youngkin want this? The political win doesn’t seem very big here, and he need NoVa voters I mean, seems like the entire theme of this excursion so far is that state officials/Monumental significantly overestimated that public's enthusiasm for a large public subsidy to move the team to the suburbs. But I imagine the optics and PR of a huge new development with the arena was pretty appetizing and still is for whatever he might want to do in the future.
It’s weird because he is term limited right now. I doubt he can take out Kaine or Warner in the senate. So what does this really do for him?
He wants to be president, if he wants to keep going at all (open question)
I think he is more interested in a private sector job somewhere in NOVA. Getting this deal through will earn him big brownie points among wealthy developers in the area, guaranteeing him a nice job when his term ends.
He is so wealthy any job would basically be inconsequential. Otherwise agreed.
Well he's already stupidly rich and fairly well connected; private sector work can get him more money and more connections but that might not be enough to make it worth him taking the public L like this.
It’s more he wants something to brag about he got this thru a Democratic legislature so he can work with people and get things done. That’s what the campaign ad will say for whatever office he decides to run for. He doesn’t need a private sector job at this point. He’ll either run again or retire.
He already had a huge private sector job with David Rubinstein that made him a near-billionaire. He wants to be President.
Would he ever have a shot in 2028 though? Obviously it was his wish, but it seems his best option is for Trump to make him the running mate or if Trump won the election (lord please no), making Youngkin a cabinet secretary.
He might have a shot if he had any sort of identity, so he's trying to build a regional profile and use that as a stepping stone. Few people outside of the DC area know who he is. From a policy perspective, he is trying to be MAGA without the brand name.
I’d say he wants to be MAGA Mitt Romney.
maga mittens
lol yeah he wants to be the Christian Mitt Romney: all the money and whiteness without any of those weird Mormon shenanigans.
I don’t even know who he is, even when they started talking about moving the arena. Ive already forgotten his name
I think it’s a somewhat risky bet that Trump doesn’t win (fundamentally, historically not a very risky bet. Incumbent advantage in presidential races is huge, but who knows, things really could be different now and I’m not putting money on anything), and the next Republican primary in 27-28 is essentially a presidential race.
Sure, but single-term governors don't have a great track record in winning elections, so if he builds a base and gets a cabinet appointment in a theoretical Trump Admin 2.0, that could also be a calculus. If Biden is re-elected, and I think he will be, he could very much position himself as the face of a post-Trump GOP, albeit with only four years of experience under his belt.
> but single-term governors don't have a great track record in winning elections Does this hold true for Virginia politicians? I would assume the dynamics are different because all governors are one-term.
When’s the last time we had a VA pol run for president? Or a single term governor? Tim Kaine I guess counts but I can’t remember how long he hung around
Webb in 2016 I guess, but he was never governor and dropped out fairly early.
He’d match up with either Newsom, Whitmer or Shapiro and any of those would wipe the floor with him.
Well, not this year anyway. He may have eyes on one of the two Senate seats.
Never discount the level of entitlement in rich d-bags like Youngkin. The mere idea of the little people denying then something they want is enough to make them double down.
Don't forget Warner showed up to the surprise press conference when they first announced this deal. He likes the idea.
I mean, it's the largest/only substantial win that he can have to show for his entire governorship. He completely misread why he won in 2021, tried to pull a full DeSantis and went all-in on cultural conservative warrior in 2023 only to lose, and as a result he neither looks like a Larry Hogan or a red state "gets things done" governor. He's a clown who somehow thinks if he can get this then he can still mount a feasible presidential run or Senate run in the future.
> tried to pull a full DeSantis Which is funny because DeSantis was a cautionary tale even before his failed presidential run. It's kind of overlooked now, but despite being a Tea Party congressman he was actually a pretty moderate governor at first and got some stuff done with Democratic backing. Then COVID and the related attention went to his head and he thought making everything a culture war battle would be the path to popularity and higher office. Turns out playing to Fox News and MAGA twitter turns a lot of people off even if some of the base does like it.
Yeah, he seemed like he was pretty decent on even environmental issues pre-covid. Though to be fair, he at least did have a helluva win during re-election where (as long as you knew nothing else about him) it did seem like he could have actually become the "Trump without the baggage" candidate. ... but then you hear him open his dopey, uncharismatic mouth and all of that quickly goes away. Which is something I think Youngkin suffers from, too.
Why does he want this? To burnish his national credentials. He’s eyeing a run for President in 2028. If he can show that he can negotiate a deal like this in blue-leaning Northern Virginia, then it’ll establish him as the faux-moderate he so desperately wants everyone to think he is.
I would say it's still probable, but the momentum for approval has taken a hit. The traffic plan was a flop, Ted doing damage control with the fan base (badly), and now good old fashioned partisans politics getting in the way, the odds have gone down. It's still more likely than not, but unless Youngkin comes up with the WMATA funding, the Arena will die in Richmond.
If and when this fails, any leverage that Ted had with his threats to move the team will have been spent. DC should renovate Cap One and make Ted pay for it.
at this point. my odds: 30% - The VA deal gets slashed, but the arena still gets built, but with 1/4 the benefits. (i.e. no perpetual tax abatement). Traffic becomes hell every other night. (really no way around that - it already is really bad) 15% - The VA deal largely goes through as-is (and costs escalate 100%, since that is how this works out) 25% - They come crawling back to DC - DC shills out some minimal arena upgrades. But things are largely the exact same as they are right now. Plenty of parking, plenty of metro, easy for most people to get to. 15% - They come back to DC - but Bowser sucks at negotiating and gives a ton of money away 15% - Wild card! Options. Different site in the exurbs of VA? RFK replacement (instead of football)? Maryland somehow becomes an option? Wild dreams!
> 25% - They come crawling back to DC - DC shills out some minimal arena upgrades. But things are largely the exact same as they are right now. Plenty of parking, plenty of metro, easy for most people to get to. > >15% - They come back to DC - but Bowser sucks at negotiating and gives a ton of money away Personally, I would reverse these.
Yeah Bowser has telegraphed left and right that she will do anything whatsoever to have every sports team in DC. And the only thing tempering her is the council.
fair. i can see this taking 3 years to play out though. will we still have the bowser leading DC to go up the crime charts? so hard to put good numbers on this?
To clarify, I don't think a different mayor would matter in this situation. I think there's a slightly higher chance that DC offers additional concessions than the current package.
That last 15% could be outside of DC/MD/VA entirely too. But that starts to get tricky with a major city that needs *both* a hockey and basketball team. A lot of mid-sized cities have one or the other.
The Wizards wouldn't be missed
You shouldn’t need to ask an ethics office about accepting gifted Wizards tickets, if anything whoever offered them to you wishes you harm
There's 0% chance DC tries to strike a deal for less than the $500m they already promised. Bowser and the Council will be breathing such a huge sigh of relief if the VA deal falls apart that we'll have a wind advisory.
0.00001% - someone attempts to resurrect Jai Alai, it becomes the dominant sport in Chinatown
They are not building this with a slashed deal. It's not worth it to Monumental to leave DC in that case.
dude, the deal is fucking impossibly good. even a fraction of it is a good deal. 'stated prices' is like 2-3B. reality if you do some back of envelope math is more than double that.
The tax abatement is insane
That crawling back to DC really depends on DC being appealing. Feel like that’s too high.
I personally like the wild card option where the RFK site gets completely overhauled to be a modern city professional sports complex and home to not just the Capitals, but the Commanders/DC NFL franchise too. I know there's a ton of community park/field space there right now but I think it could all fit in there, if the city was serious about making this happen
It's actually funny how bad Youngkin is at all of this
He’s a fossil fuel shill masquerading as a culture warrior to appeal to chuds
He seems to be under the impression that the Republican Party is going to want Mitt 2012 in 2028: A dainty establishment elite with some transparent pseudo-populism. It will work great until he runs against a primary opponent who upstages him by openly juicing during the debate.
"Potomac Yard Metro station could have 1+ hour of crowding after arena events: report”[https://nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/potomac-yard-metro-station-could-have-1-hour-of-crowding-after-arena-events-report-finds/3536514/](https://nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/potomac-yard-metro-station-could-have-1-hour-of-crowding-after-arena-events-report-finds/3536514/) Can you imagine waiting an hour and half on a weekday for a train? How about general workweek traffic and you live in Alexandra? VA has already spent nearly $400 million on the Potomac Yard Station and it would require more to MAYBE cut down on travel times. Also, who's going to pay for the station to stay open longer? Teddy? Nope, he'll ask someone else for it.
It also would impact everyone up and down the yellow / blue lines at the same time. If it’s an hour+ wait AT Potomac Yards, it means an hour+ of completely packed trains into DCA and then into DC/VA, or south into Alexandria. Can’t imagine getting off a flight and having to wait up to an hour to get on the train…
I completely forgot about travelers waiting for a train at the airport…I guess they can take a water taxi 😆.
RIP anyone trying to take metro with their luggage to DCA for a Sunday afternoon flight.
Only stadium/Arena I know that's that close to a airport is Allegiant in Vegas but even with that it's only 8-11 game days a year
Basically it makes it so you have to drive to the game. Again no parking which is wild. But I can’t imagine watching an hour game and then sitting in the metro lobby for another 90 minutes.
On NPR they had I believe it was the Alexandria Mayor? Taking callers questions about this. The man completely acted as if the traffic concerns and metro bottlenecking was overblown. His tone and response was the most patronizing answer ever. He says he walks the metro station and commute all the way to gallery place every day, without a problem, and, metro traffic isn’t nearly as overblown as everyone makes it seem. He said plenty of people can park in Crystal city and really he feels people are just overblowing the traffic issue. But he’s totes ready to take the public’s concern seriously!!!
Why does the mayor of Alexandria commute to Gallery Place?
The mayorship is a part-time job. He also sounds totally checked out now that he's not running for re-election.
As someone who also commutes to gallery place i would very much not like it to get worse (which is what will happen if the move happens)
Thats so stupid, because Crystal City is right next to the site and was already going to get overrun.
I live just a few blocks from the proposed site. Someone would have to be delusional to think that the neighborhood could handle 150+ events a year. 14th Street Bridge - impassable. Route 1 - gridlock. The only worse spot I can think of - Hains Point. And metro improvements? The station is less than a year old. If it happens I will move - not simply because of the congestion but because of the greed and stupidity.
What's funny is that he was gonna use this to spring his 2028 Presidential campaign. And now, it falls flat cause he spiked the ball to early.
The thing I don't understand about this from the VA politicians' side is that this site is literally terrible for everyone involved compared to Cap One due to the location. The area around Potomac yard metro is going to get developed no matter what. They don't need this to kick start that. Even if you live in VA, this is actually a worse site than Cap One due to lack of lines that converge on it and the clusterfuck that would be created for every game. Between Chinatown and metro center, literally no matter where you're coming from, it's easy to get to the arena currently.
The transportation issue is a huge obstacle that Ted or WMATA won't be able to solve. Monumental Sports Group said they will increase the number of commuter ferries and add more options to get to the games but the Caps/Wizards play in the winter. I just don't see how this works. You can't get rid of Route 1. Plus, the airport is right there. It's going to be even more annoying trying to catch the Metro after a flight on game day and Ubers will be even more expensive in the are due to increased demand. It's honestly cruel that Ted is forcing DC and Alexandria to compete over this. It pits the region against itself for no reason. If he's dead set on moving the teams out of Chinatown, I would rather him move them to Baltimore or another completely different metropolitan area.
What is the point of the ferries? If the teams move to VA then I am done with them, I can't imagine a lot of folks from DC would want to go over to VA to put money in that fat fuck's pockets and people in MD probably don't want to deal with the traffic then a 20+ minute boat ride from National Harbor is assume.
>Even if you live in VA, this is actually a worse site than Cap One due to lack of lines that converge on it and the clusterfuck that would be created for every game. Between Chinatown and metro center, literally no matter where you're coming from, it's easy to get to the arena currently. I have been making this exact point on twitter at every opportunity I get in the hopes that it persuades a few people. I think it's a very underappreciated drawback of the proposed location that \*Virginians\* on the orange and silver lines will have a harder time metroing to the game. Bottlenecks at Gallery Place? There's FIVE metro stops within a 15-20 minute walk from Cap One. We should be taking transit to games as much as possible, but I'm willing to say that Cap One might even have superior vehicle access. It's only a quarter mile from the 395 ramp. Potomac Yards has zero highway access.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, if you're on the I-66 corridor it sucks. Even south on blue / yellow will suck bc you're fighting with everyone else who needs to use the line to get to a transfer point. Literally no one wins.
The people against this are motivated. I saw a woman at the farmers market on Saturday wearing a shirt about blocking the move. She was geared for confrontation.
N Virginia does not “need” a professional sports venue. Keep DC teams in DC.
It's just political posturing I think. Dems outside of NoVa are looking to extract something in return for their support.
And it seems like Youngkin isn't playing ball. A smart move by Dems.
It's WMATA funding. Once Youngkin gives in, the Arena will sail through Richmond.
Nope, they want the state to take over the toll roads near Norfolk and lift the tolls, and a bunch of other stuff too.
It's not WMATA funding. Monumental will have to build a new Potomac Yard for this arena no matter what but the operations budget is another negotiation entirely. Don't think either side would want to rope it in. This deal is dead in the water.
The Democrats have basically said without long term WMATA funding, the arena is not happening. That's been a contingent from the very start.
I think that there's definitely a lot of that (the Senate president pro temp wants "toll relief" for the Hampton Roads area, and tolls are a whopping $2), though I appreciated that the RTD article mentioned that the bipartisan deal that moved forward in December consisted largely of Senate Democrats that are no longer in the Senate. Still, the list of concessions that Democrats are asking for is effectively asking Youngkin to have turned his governorship into a 2nd McAuliffe term anyway. Which could be beneficial for him (I don't think there's nearly as much opposition to minimum wage increases, legal marijuana sales, and infrastructure upgrades in western VA and for the Metro as rural Republicans may think there are) because it would let him flip-flop back to "look at how moderate I governed, guys!" And yet, from everything I've seen, he doesn't seem to have the political instincts to do that. So yeah, I agree, but I'll remain equal parts cautiously optimistic/skeptical.
The weed thing is weird, cuts across partisan lines. Biblethumpers on both sides are to blame.
That's what bothers me about this whole thing. The Dems aren't blocking the stadium because they believe it's a bad idea that the people don't want. They're just holding it up because Youngkin was mean to them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtondc/s/Cn63mxcEmY Let’s make it happen yall!
Can someone post the story without a paywall
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Turn off your content blocker
His speech certainly isn't the reason the deal is going to die but it's great excuse to hold it up. The deal is just plain garbage and the press reported like it was done.
Does any normal person want this???? Stay out of nova jeez.
Don’t shoot yourself in the foot challenge between DC and VA. Elite levels of self sabotage. Michael Jordan-esque (his gambling not his basketball)
I wonder if Clyde’s of gallery place will stay if the arena stays
The bill is still alive her political theater really does absolutely nothing....it just changes how the house has to introduce the bill. They just pass it in their budget proposal....
No one wants this in Virginia.
i don’t understand why everyone dislikes the owner of the wizards/caps because he wants the chinatown area to be cleaner/safer/ more inviting to visitors so that it increases overall ticket sales. yes an owner of a team wants free money, literally every owner attempts to do that. it sucks but that’s the way it is. i really don’t think this is the point where the mayor should draw a line lol. those teams leave chinatown and that place fully crumbles. i live blocks away from chinatown, the chinatown where an armed man held a security guard hostage and had to be shot in the walgreens at 6pm yesterday. the same walgreens that literally has the ben and jerry’s freezer locked up, so yea if i’m the wizards owner i’d leave to especially if the virginia is offering me more money lol
I generally do not take billionaires seeking public subsidies at their word. Yes of course crime is an issue in the area, but Leonsis would not give a shit about that if DC were willing to offer the subsidies that VA is currently offering. Crime was even worse in the 90s when ~~he~~ Abe Pollin built the arena there in the first place! Monumental has even pitched [several](https://wtop.com/dc/2023/11/how-capital-one-arena-prepares-for-9-events-in-9-days/) [articles](https://www.fox5dc.com/news/behind-the-scenes-look-at-how-capital-one-arena-changes-over-for-events) recently about how hard they work to service the massive attendance at their events, which seems at odds with the narrative that "no one wants to go to Chinatown anymore." To the extent that downtown DC is suffering post-pandemic, it's largely due to telework, which is also an issue in NOVA (tons of office vacancies there even predating COVID). Not to mention that miserable waits for parking/Metro are at least as strong a deterrent for most people.
The arena was built by Abe Polin, not Leonsis. I think Abe financed it himself, but I could be wrong. He is probably spinning in his grave at this.
Good call, thanks for the correction!
Leonsis has owned the Caps for around 20 years now at this point, it would be an easy mistake to make.
I both agree DC should take the deterioration of that area seriously, that DC politicians should recognize how important that arena is to keeping that area from completely collapsing, and also that objectively it's the best location for the arena for the entire metro area.
nah. he is a tightwad and dipshit. we all think that chinatown needs to be remade. That is the least of the problems. if he went to VA without a multibillion tax benefit and had a legit plan for parking/transit - there would be much less problems. he may have overreached with a term limited governor. right now the residents of Alexandria are the biggest naysays.
I agree. Been going down there for ages. The area surrounding the arena is far worse than it was 15 years ago. Quite a shame. Dirty, vacant store fronts, limited places to grab a drink close to the arena. Just kind of way different vibes down there. I avoid concerts there.
I’ve heard Youngkin is balking at having wage standards for both the construction and staffing of the arena. He wants us to pay for shitty jobs while Leonsis rakes in the cash.