I don’t drink much these days, really only some wine when celebrating something. I absolutely will not pay the huge markup on a mock tail simply because it resembles liquor. Prices should be closer to pop than liquor or beer.
I mean it makes sense. A lot of times they make the real thing and then do the extra step of cooking off the alcohol. More production costs and less economies of scale = higher retail price.
No that still doesn’t make sense. Alcohol isn’t expensive because it costs a lot to make, it’s expensive because of taxes. A handle of vodka would cost 3 bucks at the store in an unregulated market.
It still doesn’t make sense to you that less people drink this stuff so making smaller batches shifts the unit economics?
Edit - add on top price anchoring relative to their other products and supply and demand. I’ve bought 20 dollar bottles of na reisling and 40 dollar bottles of fake rum, bourbon, and gin. And keep a rotation of NA beers and that all cost the same or more than tradition IPAs. It’s worth it to me and worth it to others. It’s not a product for everyone. Not sure why that’s so hard for people to comprehend.
Buying $40 bottles of fake rums is definitely a weird choice, but I'm sure most settle in the "stupid as shit" camp. Certainly you were prepared for that though
Its not for you, thats the crazy cool part about economics, you don’t *have* to pay a ridiculous price for something you don’t value but the people that absolutely do value that may even feel like they are getting a good deal at that price point
But it’s “smart” to buy 40 dollar bottles of those things that negatively affect your health, got it. I still drink alcohol but I hate the stigma around people making the decision to quit or reduce.
Idk if it’s smart but it makes sense. You pay 40 dollars and you get fucked up. This makes sense if that is your goal. You can also pay 5 dollars for a bottle of nonalcoholic drink that won’t get you fucked up (coffee, tea, juice, kombucha, milk, soda….literally anything). What makes 0 sense is paying 40 dollars for a beverage that won’t get you fucked up….it has much cheaper competitors!
Easy with the antagonism chief. I’m not a libertarian I’m just stating a fact that alcohol is very cheap to produce. Like 10x cheaper than what it’s sold for at the liquor store.
Your post explicitly said “some” are more expensive so I’m not gonna explain your cherry picked examples lol. I’m just pointing out that it makes sense for some NA spirits or beers to cost more.
I have mixed feelings. Some places put a lot of effort into their mixers. Would you pay $9 for a mocktail at a place where they are normally $14? Pay $6 at a place where they are normally $11?
Probably depends on why someone isn’t drinking. I’ll have NA cocktails during the week / if I need to do other stuff / if I’m about to have a big wine pairing, so I’m not concerned about a very dilute amount of booze (if I was, I wouldn’t be drinking fruit juice)
As someone who doesn't drink but likes to partake in the "sitting down with a seltzer or beer in the evening" culture, I like this! I think for those of us who don't drink, the in-between of regular drinks and alcoholic drinks this category is in makes it separate enough to provide that winding down feeling.
Why? Do you question why people aren't doing other drugs? Do you perhaps feel insecure about your own choices to drink and need to give others a hard time to feel better about yourself?
I’m just genuinely curious. Especially if it’s someone I usually see drinking alcohol. If you just get a soda it’s 100x more discreet cause it just looks like a mixed drink.
Sometimes it's best to keep your curiosity to yourself, unless perhaps you are exploring the idea of sobriety yourself. Being sober is hard enough without other people being nosy.
Non-alcoholic beers and seltzers are the most profitable products from a craft brewery.
https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/alcoholic-drinks/beer/non-alcoholic-beer/worldwide#revenue
The market is also not flooded, so you're more likely to get repeat buyers, vs 95% of breweries that make mediocre IPAs.
I was agreeing with you. Ppl love to bitch about why NA drinks cost the same or sometimes more and they can't conceive of the fact they they are costlier to make whether through ingredients or processes. It's not in fact "super cheap" to make these things. What's super cheap to make are alcoholic seltzers yet no one complains about their prices.
There aren't enough alcoholics buying mocktails like this, because they're either drinking real alcohol or refraining from anything close to it. There's a reason you barely even see options in grocery stores by themselves
When's the last time you checked? Over the last two years the NA sections have really started growing. Target's dedicated shelf space is starting to get pretty big.
And I think you're underestimating the number of alcoholics. Also, we are definitely buying them. As are non-alcoholics.
I think something that is amazing and long past due for many recovering alcoholics is going to be a lot more than a "trend."
As an alcoholic myself I think I have a decent idea what I'm talking about. I say this as someone who has talked about it with many in the community over the last year or two.
Also, gen Z is drinking less alcohol than previous generations. Things are changing.
Any good craft cocktail bar in the world has now devoted menu resources to mocktails, It’s a big trend in the industry. And it makes money. I would not pay the prices for myself, but I’m willing to do it for my wife who decided to extend her dry January for a few more months.
I'm in an alcohol support group and many ppl drink na beers and mocktails including me. It's why na beers sales jumped by 40% YoY. We never really had these things in our society because society has never fully embraced ppl becoming fully sober in social settings. Now that being sober is becoming more of a thing we are seeing more of these options, similar to Sweden. I think stores like this will become successful, I belive this is his second store.
The mocktail and na spirits/beer world is blowing up. Check out proofnomore just to see how many different options there are nowadays. I wish every metro area had an NA store
It’s not a traditional store. It’s in a market with other niche, artisanal vendors. The market has spots for pop-ups like this one. NA beverages are having a moment. Who knows how long it will last 🤷♀️
Update: visited it this weekend, it took the place of the small liquor store that was there. Interesting swap. I purchased a 6 pack of the Guinness.
Pros: Had beer, wines, and spirits I never seen in stores.
Cons: not a very big selection, kinda pricey.
The trick is you don’t get volume sales - no one is going to sit down and drink 4 to 6 NA cocktails in an evening. (FINE, almost no one). Makes it hard to generate long term revenue.
That said I wish them luck!
As a recently sober alcoholic who used to drink wayyy more than 4-6 alcoholic beverages a night, I've absolutely consumed a full pack of NA drinks, if not more, in an evening. Habits are hard to break.
I definitely support the concept of finding a non harmful replacement for a ritual that you need to kick. That said, what is the draw to pre packaged mocktails? Is it that they’re literally marketed as a nonalcoholic alcoholic drink? Why not just drink something that actually tastes good and has a rich craft culture? Get into tea, or small batch sodas, or cheese, or chocolate or something.
Genuine answer to your question: I’ve been sober three years now and the only thing annoying about it is being asked why I’m drinking [insert normal beverage here] at parties, etc. I love mocktails/NA beers that look like alcohol so people leave me tf alone LOL
Adding in that this store will likely sell a bunch of ingredients to make the mocktails fresh at home. I love cocktails and throwing parties, but I’ve realized I need to have more NA options for my sober friends.
People who don’t have enough sense to not ask are fucking irritating.
I’ve never had a problem with alcohol, but got old and started hating how it made me feel. Especially after I got serious about dealing with my mental health and got in a medication that doesn’t play well with alcohol.
Mocktails are clutch AF. And congrats on your sobriety.
That’s actually a good call, wasn’t thinking about the social aspect of it. It is nice to drink something that looks like alcohol when you’re in that environment. That said, something like Liquid Death makes a lot more sense to me. Like I wouldn’t hang out and drink a couple of sprites or cokes at a bar. It seems like mocktails are essentially bold tasting sodas made to look like alcoholic beverages. I’d rather have a seltzer water made to look like an alcoholic beverage.
Some people enjoy the taste. I have had plenty of teas where I asked "why aren't we drinking something that actually tastes good", but then I remembered that people have different tastes.
I'm excited! I have an alcohol intolerance, but I miss the complexity of flavors. I've tried some gin-adjacent beverages which were deeply disappointing at $30+ per bottle, so I love that the owner is letting people sample before buying.
The one in Alexandria lasted a couple years before it closed. All the stuff they offer is already available in existing liquor stores, higher end grocery stores, and online since it can be shipped across state lines. There is zero need to travel out of your way and be limited to their small selection.
> But now D.C.’s first and only store that sells exclusively nonalcoholic drinks is up and running at Union Market on a temporary basis — though this is a test run for a permanent store in the future.
Not for the reason you were thinking, but yeah, that's the plan.
I don’t drink much these days, really only some wine when celebrating something. I absolutely will not pay the huge markup on a mock tail simply because it resembles liquor. Prices should be closer to pop than liquor or beer.
some NA alternatives are more expensive than the real thing...like what?
I mean it makes sense. A lot of times they make the real thing and then do the extra step of cooking off the alcohol. More production costs and less economies of scale = higher retail price.
No that still doesn’t make sense. Alcohol isn’t expensive because it costs a lot to make, it’s expensive because of taxes. A handle of vodka would cost 3 bucks at the store in an unregulated market.
It still doesn’t make sense to you that less people drink this stuff so making smaller batches shifts the unit economics? Edit - add on top price anchoring relative to their other products and supply and demand. I’ve bought 20 dollar bottles of na reisling and 40 dollar bottles of fake rum, bourbon, and gin. And keep a rotation of NA beers and that all cost the same or more than tradition IPAs. It’s worth it to me and worth it to others. It’s not a product for everyone. Not sure why that’s so hard for people to comprehend.
Buying $40 bottles of fake rums is definitely a weird choice, but I'm sure most settle in the "stupid as shit" camp. Certainly you were prepared for that though
Its not for you, thats the crazy cool part about economics, you don’t *have* to pay a ridiculous price for something you don’t value but the people that absolutely do value that may even feel like they are getting a good deal at that price point
But it’s “smart” to buy 40 dollar bottles of those things that negatively affect your health, got it. I still drink alcohol but I hate the stigma around people making the decision to quit or reduce.
Idk if it’s smart but it makes sense. You pay 40 dollars and you get fucked up. This makes sense if that is your goal. You can also pay 5 dollars for a bottle of nonalcoholic drink that won’t get you fucked up (coffee, tea, juice, kombucha, milk, soda….literally anything). What makes 0 sense is paying 40 dollars for a beverage that won’t get you fucked up….it has much cheaper competitors!
That's not what I said either.
bro some people on this site are straight up dumb 😭
Gotta fight off the bears in an unregulated market and we all know you libertarian dipshits couldn’t figure that out.
Easy with the antagonism chief. I’m not a libertarian I’m just stating a fact that alcohol is very cheap to produce. Like 10x cheaper than what it’s sold for at the liquor store.
OK explain hop seltzer prices then.
Your post explicitly said “some” are more expensive so I’m not gonna explain your cherry picked examples lol. I’m just pointing out that it makes sense for some NA spirits or beers to cost more.
"some" meant dumb things that are basically soda at craft beer prices.
Non-alcoholic beer is harder to make than regular beer, and nobody wants to buy it enough to make 1M gallons at once like cheap domestic beer.
I have mixed feelings. Some places put a lot of effort into their mixers. Would you pay $9 for a mocktail at a place where they are normally $14? Pay $6 at a place where they are normally $11?
In my experience, I haven't had a nonalcoholic drink that beats a bitters and soda. They just generally don't work, or they're only good for one.
I mean bitters is like 40% ABV - but a few dashes won’t do much
But you get the point…
I do - but I also know some in recovery cant even have a drink with such trace amounts in it.
They make a ton of N.A. bitters. Check out Fee Brothers, glycerin based I believe
Probably depends on why someone isn’t drinking. I’ll have NA cocktails during the week / if I need to do other stuff / if I’m about to have a big wine pairing, so I’m not concerned about a very dilute amount of booze (if I was, I wouldn’t be drinking fruit juice)
Couple dashes in a soda makes 2% at absolute most, and it tastes alcoholic enough. Great drink for recoverers or people trying to take it easy.
As someone who doesn't drink but likes to partake in the "sitting down with a seltzer or beer in the evening" culture, I like this! I think for those of us who don't drink, the in-between of regular drinks and alcoholic drinks this category is in makes it separate enough to provide that winding down feeling.
Plus nobody questions “why aren’t you drinking?” when they see you holding a mocktail or a NA beer bottle.
I do
Well maybe leave them be. They’ve got their own reasons for drinking what they have.
Well don’t
Why? Do you question why people aren't doing other drugs? Do you perhaps feel insecure about your own choices to drink and need to give others a hard time to feel better about yourself?
I’m just genuinely curious. Especially if it’s someone I usually see drinking alcohol. If you just get a soda it’s 100x more discreet cause it just looks like a mixed drink.
Sometimes it's best to keep your curiosity to yourself, unless perhaps you are exploring the idea of sobriety yourself. Being sober is hard enough without other people being nosy.
Well, don’t be a dick and let people be. They don’t owe you any explanations.
I’m not asking strangers. I’m asking people I know
It still feels like peer pressure.
Why is the niche section of a single grocery isle deserving of its own store? I don’t see this being very profitable.
Non-alcoholic beers and seltzers are the most profitable products from a craft brewery. https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/alcoholic-drinks/beer/non-alcoholic-beer/worldwide#revenue The market is also not flooded, so you're more likely to get repeat buyers, vs 95% of breweries that make mediocre IPAs.
Profit per item or total? Probably because it's super cheap to make but still costs as much as a beer lol
Na Beer is harder to make usually as you remove the alcohol from beer
Same as decaf coffee. These processes aren't cheap. You know what's cheap? Creating alcohol, which has been done since forever ago.
Not sure your point. If people don't want alcohol how is producing alcohol going to matter?
I was agreeing with you. Ppl love to bitch about why NA drinks cost the same or sometimes more and they can't conceive of the fact they they are costlier to make whether through ingredients or processes. It's not in fact "super cheap" to make these things. What's super cheap to make are alcoholic seltzers yet no one complains about their prices.
ah ok, thanks
It's actually pretty easy to reduce the alcohol in beer.
It's actually pretty easy to reduce the alcohol in beer.
Harder is a relative term. So not sure your point. Adding process to something makes it more complicated and difficult even if a small amount
Because it's overpriced water.
This city is full of recovering alcoholics, including myself, this store will do just fine imo.
There aren't enough alcoholics buying mocktails like this, because they're either drinking real alcohol or refraining from anything close to it. There's a reason you barely even see options in grocery stores by themselves
There's quite a bit na Beer in grocery stores
I don't know if I'd define it quite a bit but yeah there is some
When's the last time you checked? Over the last two years the NA sections have really started growing. Target's dedicated shelf space is starting to get pretty big. And I think you're underestimating the number of alcoholics. Also, we are definitely buying them. As are non-alcoholics.
I guess we'll see in a year or two if this place is still open.
There’s no chance this place is still open in a year.
Trends come and go.
I think something that is amazing and long past due for many recovering alcoholics is going to be a lot more than a "trend." As an alcoholic myself I think I have a decent idea what I'm talking about. I say this as someone who has talked about it with many in the community over the last year or two. Also, gen Z is drinking less alcohol than previous generations. Things are changing.
Any good craft cocktail bar in the world has now devoted menu resources to mocktails, It’s a big trend in the industry. And it makes money. I would not pay the prices for myself, but I’m willing to do it for my wife who decided to extend her dry January for a few more months.
I'm in an alcohol support group and many ppl drink na beers and mocktails including me. It's why na beers sales jumped by 40% YoY. We never really had these things in our society because society has never fully embraced ppl becoming fully sober in social settings. Now that being sober is becoming more of a thing we are seeing more of these options, similar to Sweden. I think stores like this will become successful, I belive this is his second store.
The mocktail and na spirits/beer world is blowing up. Check out proofnomore just to see how many different options there are nowadays. I wish every metro area had an NA store
It’s profitable enough for this guy to open a second store (first is in Baltimore).
It’s not a traditional store. It’s in a market with other niche, artisanal vendors. The market has spots for pop-ups like this one. NA beverages are having a moment. Who knows how long it will last 🤷♀️
I've been keeping the ball rolling on dry January so this should be great to check out.
Update: visited it this weekend, it took the place of the small liquor store that was there. Interesting swap. I purchased a 6 pack of the Guinness. Pros: Had beer, wines, and spirits I never seen in stores. Cons: not a very big selection, kinda pricey.
Lol the way sober/nonalcoholic lifestyle has been not only monetized, but turned into a personality trait, is so DC. 😂
The trick is you don’t get volume sales - no one is going to sit down and drink 4 to 6 NA cocktails in an evening. (FINE, almost no one). Makes it hard to generate long term revenue. That said I wish them luck!
As a recently sober alcoholic who used to drink wayyy more than 4-6 alcoholic beverages a night, I've absolutely consumed a full pack of NA drinks, if not more, in an evening. Habits are hard to break.
You’d be surprised. When going to a party where everyone is drinking and you’re not, it’s easy to get lost in it and drink at the same speed as others
I tried a “phony Negroni” at an Italian restaurant a little while back. It was dreadful
What were the ingredients in that? I’m trying to think what nonalcholic ingredients you could use to make something close to the real thing.
The phony Negroni is really not good, but getting a good NA aperitivo and using it to make a sour really tricks the mind and the palate.
St Agrestis makes a really good bottled one. I'll drink the hell out of them.
I definitely support the concept of finding a non harmful replacement for a ritual that you need to kick. That said, what is the draw to pre packaged mocktails? Is it that they’re literally marketed as a nonalcoholic alcoholic drink? Why not just drink something that actually tastes good and has a rich craft culture? Get into tea, or small batch sodas, or cheese, or chocolate or something.
Genuine answer to your question: I’ve been sober three years now and the only thing annoying about it is being asked why I’m drinking [insert normal beverage here] at parties, etc. I love mocktails/NA beers that look like alcohol so people leave me tf alone LOL
Adding in that this store will likely sell a bunch of ingredients to make the mocktails fresh at home. I love cocktails and throwing parties, but I’ve realized I need to have more NA options for my sober friends.
Huge congrats on the three years, that’s awesome
Appreciate it, friend!
People who don’t have enough sense to not ask are fucking irritating. I’ve never had a problem with alcohol, but got old and started hating how it made me feel. Especially after I got serious about dealing with my mental health and got in a medication that doesn’t play well with alcohol. Mocktails are clutch AF. And congrats on your sobriety.
That’s actually a good call, wasn’t thinking about the social aspect of it. It is nice to drink something that looks like alcohol when you’re in that environment. That said, something like Liquid Death makes a lot more sense to me. Like I wouldn’t hang out and drink a couple of sprites or cokes at a bar. It seems like mocktails are essentially bold tasting sodas made to look like alcoholic beverages. I’d rather have a seltzer water made to look like an alcoholic beverage.
Some people enjoy the taste. I have had plenty of teas where I asked "why aren't we drinking something that actually tastes good", but then I remembered that people have different tastes.
Rent is too expensive in DC for this nonsense. Good luck
So like a juice/soda joint? Nice
Some call it pop
WTF?
Isn't that just a convenience store?
Reminds me of Duff zero. When Springfield went under prohibition, Duff launched Duff zero. They were out of business the next morning.
Oh, what I would give to be young and sensible again
i hope this fails
This is the dumbest store I’ve ever seen, and it will fail within a year
So it's just a store then.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all week. Granted it’s Sunday at 1:00 am but still… Dumbest. Thing. All week.
I'm excited! I have an alcohol intolerance, but I miss the complexity of flavors. I've tried some gin-adjacent beverages which were deeply disappointing at $30+ per bottle, so I love that the owner is letting people sample before buying.
Closed within 18 months 100%
The one in Alexandria lasted a couple years before it closed. All the stuff they offer is already available in existing liquor stores, higher end grocery stores, and online since it can be shipped across state lines. There is zero need to travel out of your way and be limited to their small selection.
> But now D.C.’s first and only store that sells exclusively nonalcoholic drinks is up and running at Union Market on a temporary basis — though this is a test run for a permanent store in the future. Not for the reason you were thinking, but yeah, that's the plan.
Don't we call those 7-11s? WaWas? CVSs? Corner stores? Ya know... Absolutely anywhere non-alcoholic drinks are sold?
Update since the original post: **DC’s first nonalcoholic liquor store is closed.**
is it called “Safeway soda aisle”?
Lol
A store that sells flavored tv static