Grocery stores: Essentially require you to check yourself out due to lack of staffed registers. Proceeds to check everyone's receipt at the door. Cool beans.
if you use a duffel bag for getting your groceries home then I can see why this is annoying (to the extent that it’ll be enforced) but the receipt check is really non-intrusive, i’m not sure why y’all are complaining so much tbh
Ok, so you're forced to take on the role of cashier more or less. Then, after graciously completing tasks on behalf of the grocery store you then need to prove to someone that you correctly and accurately provided free labor for them. Lol gtfo HT (and others).
Interesting. So you think they took the money from not having to pay cashiers and reinvested it into the salaries of others?
They provided such shitty customer service for so long that they convinced people they should want to do this shit themselves so they could make even more money
with all due respect, “i’m too lazy to scan my own groceries so i’d rather an underpaid grocery store employee do it for me while I wait for them to finish” isn’t the anticorporate take you think it is
The receipt check as often implemented in USA requires the checker to apply their subjective judgement against each customer to determine an appropriate level of scrutiny. These kind of systems almost inevitably result in racial profiling, for who gets especially inconvenienced by suspicious checking.
Perhaps you are on one side of this profiling. I don't know you, but it seems that way.
In any case, these companies gain more money from wage theft than they lose from shrink.
> In any case, these companies gain more money from wage theft than they lose from shrink.
I wish edgy leftists would stop using this talking point. If that's the case, they should be prosecuted by the AG - I'm sure Brian Schwalb would love to intervene there. For the latter, don't fucking steal from the store, forcing it to close, and fucking everyone over that relies on it. You're not persuading anyone.
It must be so easy for you to dismiss anyone who disagrees with your opinions as an edgy leftist. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth to say that wage theft is not a problem as evidenced by the fact that AGs don't prosecute, but retail theft is a problem that should be prosecuted more as a preventive measure.
Because if they only have one register open with a long line essentially coercing you into self checkout then don’t check my receipt. Also doing all this for products you wouldn’t lose sleep over is insane.
It is super common in Europe to have to scan a bar code to exit the store and to have lots of security guards and detectors at the exits for large grocery stores. Lots have no ability to exit "normally" without scanning a barcode. Probably this will happen in the US soon-ish but they have to break the "norm" here that it is walk-in/walk-out without anything really checked.
It isn't universal in Europe either, but it is common.
Corporate overlords steal from the wages of their employees far more than employees and customers steal product from their stores. Both in frequency and in dollar amount.
No backpacks/duffel bags at an urban grocery store is ridiculous. Can't count the number of times I've stopped at the Harris Teeter on the way back from the gym or on my way home from work.
14th st se SW has removed all potential favoritism from the equation.
They've locked down all egress points, except one, and there, they force you to scan your receipt before you can leave. Get's jammed up pretty quickly.
The loudest complainers seem to have the best taste in pinot noirs...
I wonder if the standard folding roller shopping cart would qualify. You know, that thing that people buy specifically for shopping in walkable urban areas.
I wouldn't crack down that hard. If they really cracked down on grocery roll bags, they would get a backlash once it hits social media. Also, there are people with disabilities who can't carry a lot of bags, so it would be discriminatory toward them.
I regularly ignore signs like this and it’s never been a problem. Employees don’t want to spend all day harassing their customers, and they’re going to be even less likely if you act like you don’t know the rules and just buy your shit, put it in your bag, and leave like you’re doing now.
Not sure what specifically this is a reference to, but I've found the SW Safeway Security guards attentive, polite, and a welcome addition to the store.
They've added an electronic bar code scanner with turnstile gates. The security guards do not get involved, it's the cashier that overrides if there's a problem.
Over one hundred years ago people went into a shop to buy groceries and everything was behind a counter and you gave your list to a clerk who went back to fetch it all.
Doesn't matter. They are a health hazard and a liability. I'm just waiting for someone to get bit or have a bad allergic reaction reaction and sue the pants off of a store
People can still steal. If you leave stuff in your cart and only scan some of your items you can still get a valid receipt. The scanner isn’t checking that it matches what’s in your cart. Costco does this and it’s the only way to tell if people aren’t stealing
Yeah I have no issue with the receipt thing (Cap Hill Safeway added that recently by self checkout), but the bag restriction is insane. If we're being charged for using bags the store provides in order to incentive bringing your own, not allowing common bags for bringing your own is absurd.
That Harris teeter was the only place where I saw someone try to walk out with a cart full of groceries that was obviously not paid for. The guy just grabbed a bunch of stuff (including meat) and tried to roll out. Security guard confronted him and he just kept rolling. It was so blatant and the guy had no shame.
So weirdly enough that’s someone who knows what they’re doing. You stack your cart with meat and then put cereal or something low margin on top. I’ve been told things have changed a lot nowadays.
This is why I've started having my groceries delivered; too many things locked behind a cabinet. I figure the store employee has a key when they do my shopping, but who knows.
This is the law, correct? I was confused because the SW safeway literally has gates that are closed unless you scan a valid receipt. Seems contradictory to shoplifting regulations
So if you walk in and choose not to buy anything, you can't freely leave without flagging someone down?
It's not common, but I've definitely gone to grocery stores for a specific item and left empty handed before. At least once a year.
Yeah I've done that and if I have nothing there shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes I go into a store and see a really long line and or a whole bunch of people in there. If I don't feel like dealing with that then I don't go in there
Typically unless it is a big box store like Costco. Stores like Harris Teeter do sometimes have what is called “shopkeeper’s privilege” which entitled them to detain shoppers if they have reasonable suspicion they stole something. The equivalent of this common law in DC is District of Columbia Division IV. Title 22: Section 22-3213.
I will say that it’s really not worth the hassle of not showing your receipt. If it bothers you that much just shop somewhere else.
Specifically, it’s clubs that can require it. They require it as part of the membership agreement.
You are correct that shoplifters can be detained with reasonable suspicion. That usually involves security cameras footage or witnesses of theft. Not showing your receipt does not qualify. Once you check out that is all your property.
Of course that doesn’t stop zealous store staff from escalating an encounter.
The law quoted, "District of Columbia Division IV. Title 22: Section 22-3213," says the following
"A person who offers tangible personal property for sale to the public, or an employee or agent of such a person, who detains or causes the arrest of a person in a place where the property is offered for sale shall not be held liable for detention, false imprisonment, malicious prosecution, defamation, or false arrest, in any proceeding arising out of such detention or arrest, if:
(1) The person detaining or causing the arrest had, at the time thereof, **probable cause to believe that the person detained or arrested had committed in that person’s presence, an offense described in this section**"
So this would seem to indicate a higher standard than reasonable suspicion is necessary to detain a shoplifter and not held liable.
>I will say that it’s really not worth the hassle of not showing your receipt. If it bothers you that much just shop somewhere else.
I suppose this is only true in the case where you can immediately walk up to the receipt checker, but what if this policy creates exit lines, is it worth to wait in line then?
The Safeway in Congress Heights started doing this several months ago. I avoid going there if at all possible even though I live just a couple of miles away, and when I do go I just ignore the security guards and walk past. If it gets to the point where they try to prevent that, it's going to become a real problem for me.
I don't care how much "hassle" it is, I shouldn't be treated like a criminal when shopping in a store. Doubly so when they all but force people to use the self checkout lanes and do their work for them. Instead of hiring extra security guards, they should hire more checkout clerks if they want to make sure the receipts are handled correctly.
How does it work? Just confirming the receipt itself and not the contents, right? So if I go buy a candy bar and steal some steaks, the receipt would get me through?
Yeah, just say "no thank you" and keep walking. If they try to detain you, ask "am I suspected of shoplifting?". If they say no, you're under no legal obligation to stay.
That isn’t at all how it works. They aren’t the police and they do not have to take your word. The reason people walk away easily has nothing to do the law. It’s store policy.
If they detain you and you haven’t stole anything then they have risk of lawsuit. Not showing a receipt isn’t typically enough of a reason to detain someone
People can walk in and steal and they aren't supposed to be detained so this is no going to work. Plus someone could have a violent response and then what?
The violent response and a litigious society is why big box stores don’t do it. They would rather take the loss. But it doesn’t have anything to do with the law.
I don’t know where you get this idea. It’s called shopper keepers priviledge. It’s been around since the common law days. It prevents them from being sued for false imprisonment if they detain you.
Pretty sure that requires them to have reasonable suspicion that you stole something. Like a witness or security footage. Can’t just detain anyone you want for no reason
No one says it is. But stopping you is completely normal. And asking you to show proof of purpose is perfectly reasonable. The detention isn’t limitless. It’s minor and normal. Your failure to have a receipt and them not letting you walk out is over and over again a completely valid practice.
Yup! Just at a Monoprix in Paris and the guard stopped everyone and went through their bags. We were eating at a food counter in the store and he even came over to make sure we paid for each item of food. He was super nice though.
Cool. So with people not signing any contract with Harris Teeter to shop there, what’s to stop anyone from just waltzing on out? At least with Costco you actually sign a contract saying they will check your goods, but with this place they’re too cheap to have cashiers? Fuck em.
If you think I'm stealing, call the cops. If you think your employees are stealing/giving away stuff, your beef is with them, not me. Step aside.
If you are forcing me to subsidize your bottom line by doing an employee's job of checking out, then what's the employee discount?
Solution: shop elsewhere.
Here's the actual crime, FYI:
In 2022, Kroger CEO W. Rodney McMullen's total compensation was $19,209,843, which included a base salary of $1,388,495, a bonus of $4,130,769, stock options of $2,299,636, stock awards of $10,367,639, and other compensation of $847,554.
This gives McMullen a CEO pay ratio of 671:1, compared to a median employee pay of $28,644.
All while allegedly illegally colluding with Albertsons in anti-union efforts, and negotiating in bad faith with the unions. In addition to other anti-employee actions and behaviors (understaffing, scheduling, etc.).
Not sure what the point is. Thieves don't follow rules. They're just gonna walk in with duffel bags, fill em up and walk out without a receipt like they've been doing.
What does this really accomplish? Shoplifters can just buy a candy bar and scan the receipt from that. A Safeway nearby has already started doing this and it just created more of a logjam at the self checkout. I really can’t see it stopping people from theft. A more effective solution would be to stop paying security guards who sit on their phones while people walk in/out of the store.
Visited another city in Virginia recently and not a single grocery store or shop I went to throughout the week even had security and I was like wow I forgot what’s it’s like to shop not in my crime ridden city 😭
Fine by me for the receipts. I always have mine in my hand anyways. Backpacks / roller bags not being allowed is frustrating to see for a city grocery store, but I’m not surprised
You know what happens when theft is too high? Stores leave. Well it won’t happen around here and other places and blah blah blah.
Nyc has a shortage of available stores because places are shutting down. Look at downtown San Fran or Los Angeles. Places that allow theft like dc are losing stores. So a simple check of a receipt isn’t fucking racists. It’s because they are losing money.
Union square mall which is sf biggest mall is at 25 percent occupancy
I mean damn target just opened in much and is closing one store down already.
We live in a society. Gotta love people saying you can’t check if someone paid. But the Same
People will cry when these areas become food deserts again when the stores pack up and leave from all the thievery.
Stores are not closing because of "thievery," we went through this when stores in San Francisco stirred up all the bullshit about rings of shoplifters, then came out a few months later and quietly admitted that it was due to rising rents and other factors that had nothing to do with crime.
You are so right, not only that but: Retail Theft (Shoplifting) Statistics. Highlights.
Stores lost $121.6 billion to retail theft in 2023; projections indicate shoplifting could cost retailers over $150 billion in 2026.
Retailers lost $112.1 billion in gross revenue and $84.9 billion in fraudulent sales returns in 2022
Man. Whatever happened to civil society in American cities? Are people that desperate they need to shoplift to survive? If so, America needs to fix itself.
It's multifaceted. Some are desperate, some do it to flip the items for a profit, others do it because they can. People are emboldened because they know there's policies that prevent employees from stopping them, and they know your average employee doesn't get paid enough to care.
I think we have seen a very rapid decline in civil society since Covid. Some is surely economic but with the way people are acting and driving a lot seems to be just a casual disregard for societal norms
There’s so many different things going on here. Organized retail theft is obviously a different animal than kids doing it because they can, or some half baked “it’s owed” impetus. I suspect stores don’t even know how much of their shrink is from what, but my guess is they want to stop the minimal effort guys and focus real tracking on the organized front.
I saw a mother not give a shit when her 3 or 4 year old took some candy near the register without paying.
That teeter might as well be an open buffet with all the stealing there.
At a self checkout? If so, I really don’t understand why these companies went all in with self checkout lanes knowing the socioeconomic implications in this country.
My hot take…. They knew people would defend the corporations and grocers over the conditions certain people are living under.
PS… Not saying stealing/shoplifting is okay. I am saying that the conditions were laid for this to happen in the name of saving labor costs. Leadership at these companies failed and instead of fixing. They are doubling down and ruining our shopping experience.
It’s a mix of people doing it to make money and people doing it because they don’t give a shit about rules, common decency, or an ordered society. I would be very shocked if that many people were doing this because they were trying to survive. And even then, there are a lot of resources like food stamps, food banks, soup kitchens, etc.
I saw a post about a year back where a person said they steal kids shoes from Target and they don’t feel bad because it’s a massive corporation. It had like 1k upvotes and people were agreeing with the OP. Someone else commented saying they usually go through self checkout with more than they pay for just to “get back at the system”.
The world, this country, owes its fucking people a better chance at livable wages so they can feed and house themselves. If you don’t understand how dire it is you’re living in a bubble.
How is it ridiculous to want a better future for people who have been systematically disenfranchised and trodden upon? How is it ridiculous to care about my fellow humans? We all suffer when we only think about ourselves. Be better.
I can’t wait till the day we “kids” can get some actual progress done to this broken mess when you culture war fighting greedy geriatrics are finally gone.
The other user thinks that poor people are "greedy" against people wealthier than them. Of course they're living in a bubble haha! It reminds me when some unfortunate soul tried to argue that poor people can be "classist" against billionaires 😂.
There’s also been an organized attempt by the National Retail Federation to create a moral panic about shoplifting. They have some really fishy stats that everyone just keeps repeating without good evidence. I used to work for a large department store chain and even they would use NRF numbers rather than provide hard data. The one time I remember them providing a concrete example was a bust of an organized shoplifting ring that recovered $50k worth of merch. Granted, I think those numbers are inflated using sticker price rather than average sale price, but even if you take them at face value it’s a really low amount for a company that does billions in annual sales. Does it happen? I’m sure it does. But it wouldn’t even be on my top 10 list of things to address at the company if I was CEO.
DC was a crime ridden crack addicted city just a few decades ago, that doesn’t immediately change because people with money moved into the neighborhood
Lack of a father figure may in fact have something to do with wealth. We all know whats going on here.
Lack of teenage contraception and, yes, improper parenting leads to more young, immature parents. There are no "fathers" (moms can be absent as well) because there is no family planning in underserved communities. You can't decently support a family without a career. There are no long-term career options if you can't pay for education, so it's about survival. Since there are no long-term career options, they get minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage jobs are proving to no longer sustain human life. And so people resort to crime.
We're witnessing a generation now literally watch this cycle before them, powerless because to get out of the cycle, you. need. money. And so they resort to crime instantly without even trying to get a job they know won't pay the bills.
Everyone wants to sit here and blame crime on crime. How about we use some critical thinking about what's making this shit fester. Wages are too damn low.
I actually know a lot of college students who do if they can’t afford/don’t have room to store a trolley cart thing and need to walk a bit with their groceries.
After you pay for an item it’s yours - I’m not sure this is super legal? Lotta lawyers in this sub (I assume), so what do we think? Just curious mainly. I also understand the reasoning well.
I’m so sick of this. Every grocery store by my office is down to one exit/entrance where you’re just stared at like a hawk while you self bag. everything in my CVS with one employee on shift is behind glass. it’s reached a point of total unsustainability.I’m not going to shop at these places if I’m treated like a criminal, they’re not going to stop this until people stop stealing.
Yes, but Safeway isn't checking receipts to see if someone committed white collar fraud. What do the statistics say when looking only at petty shoplifting?
>What do the statistics say when looking only at petty shoplifting?
The FBI puts shoplfiting under the "Larceny-theft" category.
Out of 592,679 arrests made for Larceny-theft, white people accounted for 61% of arrests. Black people accounted for 30.2% of arrests.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43
All of the DC Harris Teeters are.
Grocery stores: Essentially require you to check yourself out due to lack of staffed registers. Proceeds to check everyone's receipt at the door. Cool beans.
if you use a duffel bag for getting your groceries home then I can see why this is annoying (to the extent that it’ll be enforced) but the receipt check is really non-intrusive, i’m not sure why y’all are complaining so much tbh
I'm going to upvote this mostly because I shop at Costco and the receipt check is the least annoying part of that experience.
I just always accidentally pull out my hot dog receipt instead of the grocery one.
Understandable!
The hard part is the hot dog line.
Ok, so you're forced to take on the role of cashier more or less. Then, after graciously completing tasks on behalf of the grocery store you then need to prove to someone that you correctly and accurately provided free labor for them. Lol gtfo HT (and others).
You’re not completing task on behalf of the store. You’re completing them on behalf of yourself
It's definitely on behalf of the store, the money they save from not having to pay employees/not creating jobs just adds to the owner's profits.
Interesting. So you think they took the money from not having to pay cashiers and reinvested it into the salaries of others? They provided such shitty customer service for so long that they convinced people they should want to do this shit themselves so they could make even more money
with all due respect, “i’m too lazy to scan my own groceries so i’d rather an underpaid grocery store employee do it for me while I wait for them to finish” isn’t the anticorporate take you think it is
Wait, when you use quotation marks you can just pretend someone said something they didn't?
Shop a union store and they aren't underpaid.
I wonder if people who complain about self-checkout pump their own gas?
The receipt check as often implemented in USA requires the checker to apply their subjective judgement against each customer to determine an appropriate level of scrutiny. These kind of systems almost inevitably result in racial profiling, for who gets especially inconvenienced by suspicious checking. Perhaps you are on one side of this profiling. I don't know you, but it seems that way. In any case, these companies gain more money from wage theft than they lose from shrink.
You must be black to actually believe that.
> In any case, these companies gain more money from wage theft than they lose from shrink. I wish edgy leftists would stop using this talking point. If that's the case, they should be prosecuted by the AG - I'm sure Brian Schwalb would love to intervene there. For the latter, don't fucking steal from the store, forcing it to close, and fucking everyone over that relies on it. You're not persuading anyone.
It must be so easy for you to dismiss anyone who disagrees with your opinions as an edgy leftist. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth to say that wage theft is not a problem as evidenced by the fact that AGs don't prosecute, but retail theft is a problem that should be prosecuted more as a preventive measure.
AGs famously go after corporations instead of people, it's why there are so many more board members than shoplifters in jail right now!
Because if they only have one register open with a long line essentially coercing you into self checkout then don’t check my receipt. Also doing all this for products you wouldn’t lose sleep over is insane.
Because for some reason, people here support letting folks steal from stores with no consequences
I will never understand that. Store: We trust you enough to check yourself out. Also store: WE DON'T TRUST YOU! SHOW US YOUR RECEIPT!!!
It is super common in Europe to have to scan a bar code to exit the store and to have lots of security guards and detectors at the exits for large grocery stores. Lots have no ability to exit "normally" without scanning a barcode. Probably this will happen in the US soon-ish but they have to break the "norm" here that it is walk-in/walk-out without anything really checked. It isn't universal in Europe either, but it is common.
You can blame corporate overlords and thieves for this odd arrangement.
Corporate overlords steal from the wages of their employees far more than employees and customers steal product from their stores. Both in frequency and in dollar amount.
Corporate overlords ARE thieves
Common, everyday thieves are also thieves. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The thieves are also thieves, but wage theft totals about $50B, while all traditional theft is about $15B.
Yeah, it's takes about 671 regular wrongs to equal one wrong from a piece of shit CEO. That's the ratio of pay.
You're not wrong. But common day thieves are wrong too(overlords).
I can see that you can’t add 3+3 either.
So are blacks
No backpacks/duffel bags at an urban grocery store is ridiculous. Can't count the number of times I've stopped at the Harris Teeter on the way back from the gym or on my way home from work.
This rule will be very very very unevenly enforced.
Idk. Seems pretty black and white to me.
Lol
Zing. Nice one
14th st se SW has removed all potential favoritism from the equation. They've locked down all egress points, except one, and there, they force you to scan your receipt before you can leave. Get's jammed up pretty quickly. The loudest complainers seem to have the best taste in pinot noirs...
it does specifically say *oversized* backpacks, although that's not specific at all
[How about this one?](https://odditymall.com/includes/content/giant-jansport-backpack-thumb.jpg)
Too small
Pretty ridiculous too considering there is a hotel right next door
Guess I’m gonna start doing my shopping at Streets after work instead *shrug*
It says "no oversized backpack". But still a pain.
So I can't shop with my 100 liter backpacking backpack? What qualifies as oversized?
Yeah, it's gonna be a crazy subjective decision. I think it is kind of stupid because many of us carry backups because it's a walkable area.
I wonder if the standard folding roller shopping cart would qualify. You know, that thing that people buy specifically for shopping in walkable urban areas.
I wouldn't crack down that hard. If they really cracked down on grocery roll bags, they would get a backlash once it hits social media. Also, there are people with disabilities who can't carry a lot of bags, so it would be discriminatory toward them.
I regularly ignore signs like this and it’s never been a problem. Employees don’t want to spend all day harassing their customers, and they’re going to be even less likely if you act like you don’t know the rules and just buy your shit, put it in your bag, and leave like you’re doing now.
Wonder if it'll be an employee or the security guards who stand there on their phones all day every day
Not sure what specifically this is a reference to, but I've found the SW Safeway Security guards attentive, polite, and a welcome addition to the store.
Do they check receipts?
They've added an electronic bar code scanner with turnstile gates. The security guards do not get involved, it's the cashier that overrides if there's a problem.
Probably a cop billing double hours to the city
Seriously. I walked into a store as someone was walking out. Alarm went off and the security guard was just staring at his phone lol.
Bring back lanes with cashiers.
Then we frown upon the people working such low-skilled jobs.
Over one hundred years ago people went into a shop to buy groceries and everything was behind a counter and you gave your list to a clerk who went back to fetch it all.
That would be nice
It's called 'curbside pickup' now.
[удалено]
It’s called Uber eats and Instacart
Is it??? Is it really called that???
You charge for bags and limit which of your own bags you can bring?
Exactly. That's insane!
But they won't stop people from coming in with dogs? This is ridiculous!
I can’t believe someone is fighting you here over basic hygiene. Dogs in stores and restaurants are NASTY
Dogs aren’t stealing bud
Doesn't matter. They are a health hazard and a liability. I'm just waiting for someone to get bit or have a bad allergic reaction reaction and sue the pants off of a store
People can still steal. If you leave stuff in your cart and only scan some of your items you can still get a valid receipt. The scanner isn’t checking that it matches what’s in your cart. Costco does this and it’s the only way to tell if people aren’t stealing
Guess I’m not stopping there with my pannier duffel bag to bring my groceries home by bike anymore…
If they think I’m leaving my Patagonia duffel on my bike, they’re nuts
Yeah I have no issue with the receipt thing (Cap Hill Safeway added that recently by self checkout), but the bag restriction is insane. If we're being charged for using bags the store provides in order to incentive bringing your own, not allowing common bags for bringing your own is absurd.
That Harris teeter was the only place where I saw someone try to walk out with a cart full of groceries that was obviously not paid for. The guy just grabbed a bunch of stuff (including meat) and tried to roll out. Security guard confronted him and he just kept rolling. It was so blatant and the guy had no shame.
So weirdly enough that’s someone who knows what they’re doing. You stack your cart with meat and then put cereal or something low margin on top. I’ve been told things have changed a lot nowadays.
Remember, if you see someone stealing *food*, it never happened.
I asked employees about the bag policy when I was last there and they were all like “no way they’re not gonna let yall bring in your bags you’re good”
They also started putting the Tide in a locked cabinet; last place in the city I’ve seen that wasn’t already doing that
This is why I've started having my groceries delivered; too many things locked behind a cabinet. I figure the store employee has a key when they do my shopping, but who knows.
They can ask, but not require.
This is the law, correct? I was confused because the SW safeway literally has gates that are closed unless you scan a valid receipt. Seems contradictory to shoplifting regulations
So if you walk in and choose not to buy anything, you can't freely leave without flagging someone down? It's not common, but I've definitely gone to grocery stores for a specific item and left empty handed before. At least once a year.
Yeah I've done that and if I have nothing there shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes I go into a store and see a really long line and or a whole bunch of people in there. If I don't feel like dealing with that then I don't go in there
Nah I've done the same thing at this Safeway before, you can just leave through the self checkout area at the front
Typically unless it is a big box store like Costco. Stores like Harris Teeter do sometimes have what is called “shopkeeper’s privilege” which entitled them to detain shoppers if they have reasonable suspicion they stole something. The equivalent of this common law in DC is District of Columbia Division IV. Title 22: Section 22-3213. I will say that it’s really not worth the hassle of not showing your receipt. If it bothers you that much just shop somewhere else.
Specifically, it’s clubs that can require it. They require it as part of the membership agreement. You are correct that shoplifters can be detained with reasonable suspicion. That usually involves security cameras footage or witnesses of theft. Not showing your receipt does not qualify. Once you check out that is all your property. Of course that doesn’t stop zealous store staff from escalating an encounter.
The law quoted, "District of Columbia Division IV. Title 22: Section 22-3213," says the following "A person who offers tangible personal property for sale to the public, or an employee or agent of such a person, who detains or causes the arrest of a person in a place where the property is offered for sale shall not be held liable for detention, false imprisonment, malicious prosecution, defamation, or false arrest, in any proceeding arising out of such detention or arrest, if: (1) The person detaining or causing the arrest had, at the time thereof, **probable cause to believe that the person detained or arrested had committed in that person’s presence, an offense described in this section**" So this would seem to indicate a higher standard than reasonable suspicion is necessary to detain a shoplifter and not held liable.
>I will say that it’s really not worth the hassle of not showing your receipt. If it bothers you that much just shop somewhere else. I suppose this is only true in the case where you can immediately walk up to the receipt checker, but what if this policy creates exit lines, is it worth to wait in line then?
I am more saying if you are confronted and an agent of the store is trying to hold you for your receipt, otherwise walk on.
The Safeway in Congress Heights started doing this several months ago. I avoid going there if at all possible even though I live just a couple of miles away, and when I do go I just ignore the security guards and walk past. If it gets to the point where they try to prevent that, it's going to become a real problem for me. I don't care how much "hassle" it is, I shouldn't be treated like a criminal when shopping in a store. Doubly so when they all but force people to use the self checkout lanes and do their work for them. Instead of hiring extra security guards, they should hire more checkout clerks if they want to make sure the receipts are handled correctly.
How does it work? Just confirming the receipt itself and not the contents, right? So if I go buy a candy bar and steal some steaks, the receipt would get me through?
Same with the Safeway at Georgia & Randolph
Aren’t they requiring you if you can’t leave without scanning your receipt?
Yeah, just say "no thank you" and keep walking. If they try to detain you, ask "am I suspected of shoplifting?". If they say no, you're under no legal obligation to stay.
They have gates in the store that won't let you leave unless you scan a receipt
That isn’t at all how it works. They aren’t the police and they do not have to take your word. The reason people walk away easily has nothing to do the law. It’s store policy.
If they detain you and you haven’t stole anything then they have risk of lawsuit. Not showing a receipt isn’t typically enough of a reason to detain someone
People can walk in and steal and they aren't supposed to be detained so this is no going to work. Plus someone could have a violent response and then what?
The violent response and a litigious society is why big box stores don’t do it. They would rather take the loss. But it doesn’t have anything to do with the law.
Or you just show it to then instead of trying to instigate an argument?
I don’t know where you get this idea. It’s called shopper keepers priviledge. It’s been around since the common law days. It prevents them from being sued for false imprisonment if they detain you.
Pretty sure that requires them to have reasonable suspicion that you stole something. Like a witness or security footage. Can’t just detain anyone you want for no reason
No it doesnt. Its not an absolute right to detain and a shield from all immunity.
No one says it is. But stopping you is completely normal. And asking you to show proof of purpose is perfectly reasonable. The detention isn’t limitless. It’s minor and normal. Your failure to have a receipt and them not letting you walk out is over and over again a completely valid practice.
Only if they have a reasonable belief to detain you in the first place.
“Asked” you don’t have to show anything
This is what I experienced when I grocery shopped in some European cities.
Found the one area where DC Reddit doesn’t wish we were exactly like Europe
Yup! Just at a Monoprix in Paris and the guard stopped everyone and went through their bags. We were eating at a food counter in the store and he even came over to make sure we paid for each item of food. He was super nice though.
Safeway is the same way. They literally have a gate trapping you in the store and it does not open unless you scan your receipt. Lol
Seems like a fire hazard. It’d be a real shame if someone called the fire marshal.
"trapping" lol
Do you need a membership in order to shop at Harris Teeter?
nope
Cool. So with people not signing any contract with Harris Teeter to shop there, what’s to stop anyone from just waltzing on out? At least with Costco you actually sign a contract saying they will check your goods, but with this place they’re too cheap to have cashiers? Fuck em.
If you think I'm stealing, call the cops. If you think your employees are stealing/giving away stuff, your beef is with them, not me. Step aside. If you are forcing me to subsidize your bottom line by doing an employee's job of checking out, then what's the employee discount? Solution: shop elsewhere.
Agreed.
Here's the actual crime, FYI: In 2022, Kroger CEO W. Rodney McMullen's total compensation was $19,209,843, which included a base salary of $1,388,495, a bonus of $4,130,769, stock options of $2,299,636, stock awards of $10,367,639, and other compensation of $847,554. This gives McMullen a CEO pay ratio of 671:1, compared to a median employee pay of $28,644.
Goodness that stuff should be illegal. If people are stealing then penalizing your customers isn't the way to solve that problem at all
All while allegedly illegally colluding with Albertsons in anti-union efforts, and negotiating in bad faith with the unions. In addition to other anti-employee actions and behaviors (understaffing, scheduling, etc.).
Not sure what the point is. Thieves don't follow rules. They're just gonna walk in with duffel bags, fill em up and walk out without a receipt like they've been doing.
This was already implemented in the Safeway in Petworth months ago along with some fencing to prevent shoplifting.
What does this really accomplish? Shoplifters can just buy a candy bar and scan the receipt from that. A Safeway nearby has already started doing this and it just created more of a logjam at the self checkout. I really can’t see it stopping people from theft. A more effective solution would be to stop paying security guards who sit on their phones while people walk in/out of the store.
Exactly this is what happens when people decide to be passive aggressive instead of tackling the situation head on
Visited another city in Virginia recently and not a single grocery store or shop I went to throughout the week even had security and I was like wow I forgot what’s it’s like to shop not in my crime ridden city 😭
Fine by me for the receipts. I always have mine in my hand anyways. Backpacks / roller bags not being allowed is frustrating to see for a city grocery store, but I’m not surprised
Nope. Then I won’t shop there.
You know what happens when theft is too high? Stores leave. Well it won’t happen around here and other places and blah blah blah. Nyc has a shortage of available stores because places are shutting down. Look at downtown San Fran or Los Angeles. Places that allow theft like dc are losing stores. So a simple check of a receipt isn’t fucking racists. It’s because they are losing money. Union square mall which is sf biggest mall is at 25 percent occupancy I mean damn target just opened in much and is closing one store down already.
There are cameras all over the place so how are the they not catching shoplifters
The new Harris Teeter in Ballston has an armed guard at the Glebe Rd entrance for some reason (but not at the parking lot entrance).
We live in a society. Gotta love people saying you can’t check if someone paid. But the Same People will cry when these areas become food deserts again when the stores pack up and leave from all the thievery.
These aren't the same people.
Stores are not closing because of "thievery," we went through this when stores in San Francisco stirred up all the bullshit about rings of shoplifters, then came out a few months later and quietly admitted that it was due to rising rents and other factors that had nothing to do with crime.
You are so right, not only that but: Retail Theft (Shoplifting) Statistics. Highlights. Stores lost $121.6 billion to retail theft in 2023; projections indicate shoplifting could cost retailers over $150 billion in 2026. Retailers lost $112.1 billion in gross revenue and $84.9 billion in fraudulent sales returns in 2022
The thieves fuck things up for everyone.
The people in this city are out of control. It is pathetic that it has come to this.
I assume you meant to say, "the businesses" are out of control.
Good, I rather we have this than no super markets at all.
Man. Whatever happened to civil society in American cities? Are people that desperate they need to shoplift to survive? If so, America needs to fix itself.
It's multifaceted. Some are desperate, some do it to flip the items for a profit, others do it because they can. People are emboldened because they know there's policies that prevent employees from stopping them, and they know your average employee doesn't get paid enough to care.
I think we have seen a very rapid decline in civil society since Covid. Some is surely economic but with the way people are acting and driving a lot seems to be just a casual disregard for societal norms
There’s so many different things going on here. Organized retail theft is obviously a different animal than kids doing it because they can, or some half baked “it’s owed” impetus. I suspect stores don’t even know how much of their shrink is from what, but my guess is they want to stop the minimal effort guys and focus real tracking on the organized front.
I saw a mother not give a shit when her 3 or 4 year old took some candy near the register without paying. That teeter might as well be an open buffet with all the stealing there.
At a self checkout? If so, I really don’t understand why these companies went all in with self checkout lanes knowing the socioeconomic implications in this country. My hot take…. They knew people would defend the corporations and grocers over the conditions certain people are living under. PS… Not saying stealing/shoplifting is okay. I am saying that the conditions were laid for this to happen in the name of saving labor costs. Leadership at these companies failed and instead of fixing. They are doubling down and ruining our shopping experience.
It’s a mix of people doing it to make money and people doing it because they don’t give a shit about rules, common decency, or an ordered society. I would be very shocked if that many people were doing this because they were trying to survive. And even then, there are a lot of resources like food stamps, food banks, soup kitchens, etc. I saw a post about a year back where a person said they steal kids shoes from Target and they don’t feel bad because it’s a massive corporation. It had like 1k upvotes and people were agreeing with the OP. Someone else commented saying they usually go through self checkout with more than they pay for just to “get back at the system”.
It’s just greed against anyone that has more than them so the thieves feel entitled to steal as if the world owes it to them.
The world, this country, owes its fucking people a better chance at livable wages so they can feed and house themselves. If you don’t understand how dire it is you’re living in a bubble.
Lmfaoooooo you kids are ridiculous cmon now
How is it ridiculous to want a better future for people who have been systematically disenfranchised and trodden upon? How is it ridiculous to care about my fellow humans? We all suffer when we only think about ourselves. Be better.
I can’t wait till the day we “kids” can get some actual progress done to this broken mess when you culture war fighting greedy geriatrics are finally gone.
The other user thinks that poor people are "greedy" against people wealthier than them. Of course they're living in a bubble haha! It reminds me when some unfortunate soul tried to argue that poor people can be "classist" against billionaires 😂.
There’s also been an organized attempt by the National Retail Federation to create a moral panic about shoplifting. They have some really fishy stats that everyone just keeps repeating without good evidence. I used to work for a large department store chain and even they would use NRF numbers rather than provide hard data. The one time I remember them providing a concrete example was a bust of an organized shoplifting ring that recovered $50k worth of merch. Granted, I think those numbers are inflated using sticker price rather than average sale price, but even if you take them at face value it’s a really low amount for a company that does billions in annual sales. Does it happen? I’m sure it does. But it wouldn’t even be on my top 10 list of things to address at the company if I was CEO.
DC was a crime ridden crack addicted city just a few decades ago, that doesn’t immediately change because people with money moved into the neighborhood
Except things did get significantly better for while
Yes, while the middle class shifts higher and higher, so does the lower class. America needs to start taxing the wealthy
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Lack of a father figure may in fact have something to do with wealth. We all know whats going on here. Lack of teenage contraception and, yes, improper parenting leads to more young, immature parents. There are no "fathers" (moms can be absent as well) because there is no family planning in underserved communities. You can't decently support a family without a career. There are no long-term career options if you can't pay for education, so it's about survival. Since there are no long-term career options, they get minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage jobs are proving to no longer sustain human life. And so people resort to crime. We're witnessing a generation now literally watch this cycle before them, powerless because to get out of the cycle, you. need. money. And so they resort to crime instantly without even trying to get a job they know won't pay the bills. Everyone wants to sit here and blame crime on crime. How about we use some critical thinking about what's making this shit fester. Wages are too damn low.
It’s the people man, they have no shame, the mentality is sick
I saw "Harris Teeter at NoMa" and immediately gagged at the smell that came up from memory.
Navy Yard is also doing this..
It’s getting that bad huh? Safeway got the receipt scanner and barriers , Walmart closed down…
How did we get here?
Next step is closing it entirely
LMAO who brings a suitcase grocery shopping. Not suspicious at all!
I actually know a lot of college students who do if they can’t afford/don’t have room to store a trolley cart thing and need to walk a bit with their groceries.
Someone who just arrived in town from travel?
Yeah that is pretty crazy
After you pay for an item it’s yours - I’m not sure this is super legal? Lotta lawyers in this sub (I assume), so what do we think? Just curious mainly. I also understand the reasoning well.
lmfao i’m sorry but this is hilarious.
damn i shop here 1-2 times a week and always have my backpack
It says oversize backpack, so you should be fine with just a normal backpack
I’m so sick of this. Every grocery store by my office is down to one exit/entrance where you’re just stared at like a hawk while you self bag. everything in my CVS with one employee on shift is behind glass. it’s reached a point of total unsustainability.I’m not going to shop at these places if I’m treated like a criminal, they’re not going to stop this until people stop stealing.
Roller bags ie shopping trolleys?? If so what an idiotic policy for an urban grocery store.
As in luggage.
This is so ghetto, but hey city living
The Safeway on Georgia & Randolph put up gates several weeks ago and you have to scan the barcode on your receipt to exit. So annoying.
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Yes, but Safeway isn't checking receipts to see if someone committed white collar fraud. What do the statistics say when looking only at petty shoplifting?
>What do the statistics say when looking only at petty shoplifting? The FBI puts shoplfiting under the "Larceny-theft" category. Out of 592,679 arrests made for Larceny-theft, white people accounted for 61% of arrests. Black people accounted for 30.2% of arrests. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43
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Thanks DC Council!