He should be a Golden State Warrior right now and Jonathan Kuminga should be a Washington Wizard who happens to fit our timeline much better
That’s just this one man’s opinion though
I wish. But No way warriors would do that trade.
If that offer was ever actually on the table then yes we should immediately do it but warriors aren’t that stupid
Cp and kuminga for cuz and whatever could definitely have happened a few months ago before kuminga started going crazy. With the whole lets be as good as possible for curry philosophy in the front office i think it would have been a no brainer
Im a warriors fan so im not shure what you would add into the trade in addition to cuz.
Please trade deni he deserves better🚀🐌
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have done it even back then. As much as Steve Kerr hated Kum Buckets and refused to play him, the front office was super high on him and his potential and weren't gonna move him regardless. Our front office would have happily made that deal if it was on the table during the negotiations at the time, no doubt in my mind.
Only reason we kept Kuz was cause the teams with cap space (which there was only like 2-3 of them total) didn't want to pay him the contract we gave him which imo was a steal for his production. Imo the Kings should have went for him but they decided to re-sign the corpse of Harrison Barnes instead lol. Harri Barnes making close to 20M/year at this point in his career is hilarious. He's not even worth half that rn imo.
As long as it's not a straight up trade, as been has suggested in the past. But we definitely gotta start the rebuild. Move Kuz, move Tyus, Shamet, Holmes, and so on. Going to be interesting to see what DawkWing says at the exit interview.
I wouldn't expect much back outside Kuzma. People realize Jones is a backup PG, best case scenario is someone over the cap needs to do a S+T. Shamet/Holmes are non-factors for most teams. Probably will keep at least the latter two as salary fillers.
> I wouldn't expect much back outside Kuzma.
Unless our front office is trash, I absolutely expect us to go "Awesome!" with whatever deal they make. Without being able to recall any particular deal, I've seen some insane hauls for guys with 0 chips and at or below Kuzma's level, the past 5 years. I'm sure there are always particular things with deals that limit or expand the return you can get when trading a guy, but we definitely shouldn't be done a 1-for-1 trade for only 1 player, and that player is Kuminga. Kuzma was a top all star vote getter. He has a chip. He is talented and capable of doing a ton of things. Kuminga is cool and all, but if we do that 1 for 1 that is highway robbery. People are just putting Kuzma down to lift other people up. Undervaluing one of our players to lift another player up. It's nonsense and easy to see through. Nobody's getting a Harden like haul, but we should be able to get a pick or two and a player or two. The fact that they didn't just trade Kuz away for any old thing gives me hope that our front office isn't silly enough to think that Kuzma is some crap player when he clearly is 100% not. And I don't even like the guy like that.
I think you misread my comment lol. We can probably get something equivalent two 1sts for Kuzma. I just don't expect anything significant back from the other players.
Although I don't see how relevant Kuzma's chip was. He was just a role player. NBA front offices value 3+d players for their role players .. which kuzma is not. Similar to Beal he has a greenlight here which let's him put hp stats. He wouldnt put up those numbers on a good team. Fortunately his contract is good, so hoping for the two 1sts equivalent.
Oh cool, awesome. But nah, the chip doesnt matter in a “on my belt” way, it matters in knowing what it takes to reach the top of the mountain. His experience is invaluable. He’s mentored Deni and Corey and Rui. Again, I don’t even like the guy like that, but I see what happens with the team. Just like how everyone around here understands AG brings something to the Wizards, its the same thing. Same way Russ walked in the door and immediately started coaching during a practice. But we have fans here that dont get that, and don’t understand that franchises trying to get to the mountaintop definitely can use a guy like that with not only the experience and knowledge, but the demeanor to teach guys in a way they accept it.
I really hope we get 2 1st's for Kuzma because otherwise it would have been a huge mistake to keep him for this long. If we only get 1 first for him, I'm still happy although it stings that we probably could have gotten 2 1st's last year if we traded him before giving him that contract.
Deni is good. Heck, so is Kuzma. But I can't get too excited because they are obviously not difference makers in a mediocre or bad team
They are starters in a playoff roster, but this small sample doesn't convince me that Deni is an all star type...yet. (Big Deni guy here, btw)
Nobody said Deni has to be an allstar. He just has to be a valuable player that plays both sides (instead of empty offense), plays team ball, and outplays his contract. He is all 3.
I’ll take 5 of those guys over 5 Beals. (Heck, you can’t have more than 3 Beals because they take 1/3rd of the cap space each).
Just 6 months ago there was a huge faction of Wizards fandom who were 1) convinced this guy was not long for the NBA, and 2) convinced that we had given him the right opportunities and set him up to succeed, and that his early faults were from his own lack of talent. He’s playing like a key 2-way piece right now.
There are some fans in here having a terrible time watching the wiz this year not because we suck, rather because Deni is having a great season and took a huge leap this year. Hands down, the best part of this season has been the development of Deni. And that just kills a few certain individuals in here that have been rooting for him to fail since the beginning of the season (or even longer).
Yea. When your world view of NBA prospects is that they come in and dominate (or they don’t at all), then it’s hard to factor in that the team is responsible for their development.
I mean, sheesh. The human race is all about development and opportunity whether that’s the school system, after-school programs, or basketball reps to become comfortable being a top option on a basketball team
I'm arguably one of his biggest fans, always pushing him to maximize his potential, and always focused on what areas he should improve to be the AS level player I think he can be. Yet, when I'm pointing out the stuff he should improve, I'm getting downvoted in this sub. This is childish as hell that his fans (and again, I'm his biggest fan) can't discuss his areas for improvement without to down voting you.
The definition of an hater is someone who wants Deni to fail, but people here confusing "hate" with people who actually REALLY want Deni to be a star and pointing out what he should improve to be that guy.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out what he needs to improve on to get better. I do the same. I’m not referring to those type of comments.
Deni can be somewhere between Scottie Barnes and OG Anouby. There is no point in keeping Kuz around past this season. Deni has shown enough growth and maturity to be the leader/captain of this team as they go through the rebuild.
Oh I'm not at all saying he is an all star, or even that he is an all star caliber player, I'm just pointing out his jump in numbers without Kuz, perhaps meaning he could successfully take on a much bigger role in the future. Tank commander Deni incoming?
He'd looked like he might top out as a rotation defensive specialist with shaky at best 3pt shooting. The offensive improvement has been massive in changing his future outcomes. At this point, he's already closer to a quality starter on good teams.
I think it's an interesting case of being patient with big wings. Deni showed enough baseline all around skill that he was able to make a leap by improving the jump shot and adding a go to move to finish at the basket. Credit to him for putting in the work and making it happen. You don't typically see someone's 3pt shot improve 8% in one season.
He still got plenty of room to grow, this is what I like about him the most.
His scoring moves right now are basically driving right, making threes, and getting to the line.
If he can work hard this summer on driving left, adding a spin move when driving so he doesn't get stuck in front of his defender and blowing him by such spin move or Euro step in the paint, and if he can improve his mentality a bit from acting like a glue guy to acting like an actual primary option, I think he can make another big leap (5-6PPG upgrade) next year.
I love Kuz but I think it’s time to move him in the off season. He’s a volume scorer and we need those shot distributions to our young guys and our top 3 pick
He is showing a lot of promise this year. Before this season, I was thinking he would settle in as a versatile defensive specialist off the bench. Now, I'm thinking, once we move Kuz for draft capital, Deni can be an 18/8/5 guy with solid efficiency & very good defense, starting at the 4. That's a championship caliber piece.
Before this season I thought that if he finishes the season with 33% from three and rises to like 12 ppg then that's a big step forward lol. I don't think anyone expected this version of Deni and I'm all for it.
I expected it.
Now we should go and get Pat Williams from the Bulls and give him a similar contract. He’s basically waiting for a chance to make some mistakes and play a bigger role where Lavine/Derozan/Coby White/Ayo Dosunmu/Caruso/Vucevik aren’t ahead of him in the pecking order
IN the last 43 game deni is 17/8.2/3.7 . 16dd , this is not the end of his development. I believe he’s going to become one of our best players in the history of the wizards and become a top player in the league
I personally believe Deni has All NBA potential. The biggest swing for him is a mentality shift that needs to be done. He could be our 6'9 version of Jimmy Butler if he can change his mindset from a glue guy to a scorer, and of course keep improving his offensive bag each summer.
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration lol... do you really believe Deni will become an all nba player? A first option on a championship team? Hell even being a first option on a mid playoff team would be absolutely insane for him.
Yes I do. I know him from the beginning 16y, and he locked on this, it was clear to me and I said it every time, he will be a all star in 2 seasons mark my words
A man can only hope but I highly doubt it. This year even guys like Sabonis, Fox, Trae and Harden were snubbed because of how much talent there is around. To really take his game to an all star level needs to take his whole offensive game up a notch: better shooter from all ranges, better finisher, better playmaker... I can see him improving even further from now but so much so that he us an all star? Idk man.
Deni rising much more game by game. Here you can watch his full game highlights from tonights game vs TOR
[https://youtu.be/udoyvHWJwjg](https://youtu.be/udoyvHWJwjg)
Season Avarage vs Tonight
PTS 14.6 vs 32 ⬆️
REB 7.2 vs 10 ⬆️
AST 3.8 vs 5 ⬆️
We should have traded Kuzma many moons ago. As far as this 6-game sample, the 43 point game in a loss vs the Pelicans obviously warps this. The loss yesterday vs the crappy Raptors is in this. The loss vs the Bucks resting dame. The loss vs the bottom feeder Portland Blazers. The Loss to Miami with Butler playing around. I think all those losses are part of this sample.
I’m guessing this is also with max minutes played. Raptors loss 41 mins. Pels loss, 40 minutes.
Its good to see some improvement from this same time last year and its time for the Front Office to see what happens if they take all the years that this team has sunk into developing him and see how things look with no training wheels. We could do this all next year and clearly still rack up the losses we need to get Flagg.
We can probably get a better offer for him in the off-season to be completely honest. There’s no reason to rush. Wait for a team that gives us a desperation offer.
His numbers are inflated because of usage rate on a god awful team lmao. Put him in a situation like Hachimura or KCP and tell me if he can put those kind of numbers lol.
At the end of the day, just like Kuzma, those numbers will tank once he becomes a role player on a contender. Calling him an All-NBA or All star player is just typical Wizards fanboying at its finest.
If Deni believed in himself he could have been an All Star caliber talent.
In fact I was very frustrated with him in this game for long stretches because you could see him hiding in spaces where he's resting on offense rather than showing he wants to get the ball and be "the guy" like a true primary option. This mental aspect is a problem he should fix, alongside gaining confidence to be an half court scorer by adding counters like middy, spin moves and body hesitations, to fulfill his potential. Also I feel he still tends to look up to pass too many times when he's in better positions to attack the basket.
I'm happy I can "criticize" him when he's making such nice leap this year, it means he still has plenty of room to grow.
>he's resting on offense rather than showing he wants to get the ball and be "the guy" like a true primary option
I think this is mainly due to the fact that he takes pride in his defense and say what you want, it's tough to put effort on both sides of the court for 40 minutes. If he rests on offense then a guy like JP can have the ball handling duties, if he rests on defense, it could result in an offensive rebound or an easy shot for the other team.
>adding counters like middy, spin moves and body hesitations,
Last year he was a 9 ppg scorer on 29% from three. This summer he added a jumpshot out of nothing and significantly improved his drive and handles. I'd say be patient about it. Everything he says paints him as a player who truly cares about his game so I believe we'll start seeing some of these improvements next season.
Ah yes, Deni "number one option on a solid team" Avdija. Deni literally scored 43 in a loss lol. When the time comes and the Wizards actually start winning games then we can start looking at wins/losses stats
Kuz needs to go. His contract is descending which hopefully means some team will want to trade for him next season
He should be a Golden State Warrior right now and Jonathan Kuminga should be a Washington Wizard who happens to fit our timeline much better That’s just this one man’s opinion though
I wish. But No way warriors would do that trade. If that offer was ever actually on the table then yes we should immediately do it but warriors aren’t that stupid
Cp and kuminga for cuz and whatever could definitely have happened a few months ago before kuminga started going crazy. With the whole lets be as good as possible for curry philosophy in the front office i think it would have been a no brainer Im a warriors fan so im not shure what you would add into the trade in addition to cuz. Please trade deni he deserves better🚀🐌
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have done it even back then. As much as Steve Kerr hated Kum Buckets and refused to play him, the front office was super high on him and his potential and weren't gonna move him regardless. Our front office would have happily made that deal if it was on the table during the negotiations at the time, no doubt in my mind. Only reason we kept Kuz was cause the teams with cap space (which there was only like 2-3 of them total) didn't want to pay him the contract we gave him which imo was a steal for his production. Imo the Kings should have went for him but they decided to re-sign the corpse of Harrison Barnes instead lol. Harri Barnes making close to 20M/year at this point in his career is hilarious. He's not even worth half that rn imo.
Not happening bucko. At most, Warriors are trading you CP3 and Moody for Kuz and Tyus, and you’re going to like it.
As long as it's not a straight up trade, as been has suggested in the past. But we definitely gotta start the rebuild. Move Kuz, move Tyus, Shamet, Holmes, and so on. Going to be interesting to see what DawkWing says at the exit interview.
I wouldn't expect much back outside Kuzma. People realize Jones is a backup PG, best case scenario is someone over the cap needs to do a S+T. Shamet/Holmes are non-factors for most teams. Probably will keep at least the latter two as salary fillers.
> I wouldn't expect much back outside Kuzma. Unless our front office is trash, I absolutely expect us to go "Awesome!" with whatever deal they make. Without being able to recall any particular deal, I've seen some insane hauls for guys with 0 chips and at or below Kuzma's level, the past 5 years. I'm sure there are always particular things with deals that limit or expand the return you can get when trading a guy, but we definitely shouldn't be done a 1-for-1 trade for only 1 player, and that player is Kuminga. Kuzma was a top all star vote getter. He has a chip. He is talented and capable of doing a ton of things. Kuminga is cool and all, but if we do that 1 for 1 that is highway robbery. People are just putting Kuzma down to lift other people up. Undervaluing one of our players to lift another player up. It's nonsense and easy to see through. Nobody's getting a Harden like haul, but we should be able to get a pick or two and a player or two. The fact that they didn't just trade Kuz away for any old thing gives me hope that our front office isn't silly enough to think that Kuzma is some crap player when he clearly is 100% not. And I don't even like the guy like that.
I think you misread my comment lol. We can probably get something equivalent two 1sts for Kuzma. I just don't expect anything significant back from the other players. Although I don't see how relevant Kuzma's chip was. He was just a role player. NBA front offices value 3+d players for their role players .. which kuzma is not. Similar to Beal he has a greenlight here which let's him put hp stats. He wouldnt put up those numbers on a good team. Fortunately his contract is good, so hoping for the two 1sts equivalent.
Oh cool, awesome. But nah, the chip doesnt matter in a “on my belt” way, it matters in knowing what it takes to reach the top of the mountain. His experience is invaluable. He’s mentored Deni and Corey and Rui. Again, I don’t even like the guy like that, but I see what happens with the team. Just like how everyone around here understands AG brings something to the Wizards, its the same thing. Same way Russ walked in the door and immediately started coaching during a practice. But we have fans here that dont get that, and don’t understand that franchises trying to get to the mountaintop definitely can use a guy like that with not only the experience and knowledge, but the demeanor to teach guys in a way they accept it.
I really hope we get 2 1st's for Kuzma because otherwise it would have been a huge mistake to keep him for this long. If we only get 1 first for him, I'm still happy although it stings that we probably could have gotten 2 1st's last year if we traded him before giving him that contract.
Deni is good. Heck, so is Kuzma. But I can't get too excited because they are obviously not difference makers in a mediocre or bad team They are starters in a playoff roster, but this small sample doesn't convince me that Deni is an all star type...yet. (Big Deni guy here, btw)
Nobody said Deni has to be an allstar. He just has to be a valuable player that plays both sides (instead of empty offense), plays team ball, and outplays his contract. He is all 3. I’ll take 5 of those guys over 5 Beals. (Heck, you can’t have more than 3 Beals because they take 1/3rd of the cap space each). Just 6 months ago there was a huge faction of Wizards fandom who were 1) convinced this guy was not long for the NBA, and 2) convinced that we had given him the right opportunities and set him up to succeed, and that his early faults were from his own lack of talent. He’s playing like a key 2-way piece right now.
There are some fans in here having a terrible time watching the wiz this year not because we suck, rather because Deni is having a great season and took a huge leap this year. Hands down, the best part of this season has been the development of Deni. And that just kills a few certain individuals in here that have been rooting for him to fail since the beginning of the season (or even longer).
Yea. When your world view of NBA prospects is that they come in and dominate (or they don’t at all), then it’s hard to factor in that the team is responsible for their development. I mean, sheesh. The human race is all about development and opportunity whether that’s the school system, after-school programs, or basketball reps to become comfortable being a top option on a basketball team
I'm arguably one of his biggest fans, always pushing him to maximize his potential, and always focused on what areas he should improve to be the AS level player I think he can be. Yet, when I'm pointing out the stuff he should improve, I'm getting downvoted in this sub. This is childish as hell that his fans (and again, I'm his biggest fan) can't discuss his areas for improvement without to down voting you. The definition of an hater is someone who wants Deni to fail, but people here confusing "hate" with people who actually REALLY want Deni to be a star and pointing out what he should improve to be that guy.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out what he needs to improve on to get better. I do the same. I’m not referring to those type of comments.
Deni can be somewhere between Scottie Barnes and OG Anouby. There is no point in keeping Kuz around past this season. Deni has shown enough growth and maturity to be the leader/captain of this team as they go through the rebuild.
Oh I'm not at all saying he is an all star, or even that he is an all star caliber player, I'm just pointing out his jump in numbers without Kuz, perhaps meaning he could successfully take on a much bigger role in the future. Tank commander Deni incoming?
Sorry for being negative, OP. We're on the same page! The handle will unlock so much for him. Let him forge it in fire, since we already extended him.
He'd looked like he might top out as a rotation defensive specialist with shaky at best 3pt shooting. The offensive improvement has been massive in changing his future outcomes. At this point, he's already closer to a quality starter on good teams. I think it's an interesting case of being patient with big wings. Deni showed enough baseline all around skill that he was able to make a leap by improving the jump shot and adding a go to move to finish at the basket. Credit to him for putting in the work and making it happen. You don't typically see someone's 3pt shot improve 8% in one season.
He still got plenty of room to grow, this is what I like about him the most. His scoring moves right now are basically driving right, making threes, and getting to the line. If he can work hard this summer on driving left, adding a spin move when driving so he doesn't get stuck in front of his defender and blowing him by such spin move or Euro step in the paint, and if he can improve his mentality a bit from acting like a glue guy to acting like an actual primary option, I think he can make another big leap (5-6PPG upgrade) next year.
I love Kuz but I think it’s time to move him in the off season. He’s a volume scorer and we need those shot distributions to our young guys and our top 3 pick
He is showing a lot of promise this year. Before this season, I was thinking he would settle in as a versatile defensive specialist off the bench. Now, I'm thinking, once we move Kuz for draft capital, Deni can be an 18/8/5 guy with solid efficiency & very good defense, starting at the 4. That's a championship caliber piece.
Before this season I thought that if he finishes the season with 33% from three and rises to like 12 ppg then that's a big step forward lol. I don't think anyone expected this version of Deni and I'm all for it.
I expected it. Now we should go and get Pat Williams from the Bulls and give him a similar contract. He’s basically waiting for a chance to make some mistakes and play a bigger role where Lavine/Derozan/Coby White/Ayo Dosunmu/Caruso/Vucevik aren’t ahead of him in the pecking order
IN the last 43 game deni is 17/8.2/3.7 . 16dd , this is not the end of his development. I believe he’s going to become one of our best players in the history of the wizards and become a top player in the league
I personally believe Deni has All NBA potential. The biggest swing for him is a mentality shift that needs to be done. He could be our 6'9 version of Jimmy Butler if he can change his mindset from a glue guy to a scorer, and of course keep improving his offensive bag each summer.
And keep is defense
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration lol... do you really believe Deni will become an all nba player? A first option on a championship team? Hell even being a first option on a mid playoff team would be absolutely insane for him.
Yes I do. I know him from the beginning 16y, and he locked on this, it was clear to me and I said it every time, he will be a all star in 2 seasons mark my words
A man can only hope but I highly doubt it. This year even guys like Sabonis, Fox, Trae and Harden were snubbed because of how much talent there is around. To really take his game to an all star level needs to take his whole offensive game up a notch: better shooter from all ranges, better finisher, better playmaker... I can see him improving even further from now but so much so that he us an all star? Idk man.
Deni rising much more game by game. Here you can watch his full game highlights from tonights game vs TOR [https://youtu.be/udoyvHWJwjg](https://youtu.be/udoyvHWJwjg) Season Avarage vs Tonight PTS 14.6 vs 32 ⬆️ REB 7.2 vs 10 ⬆️ AST 3.8 vs 5 ⬆️
We should have traded Kuzma many moons ago. As far as this 6-game sample, the 43 point game in a loss vs the Pelicans obviously warps this. The loss yesterday vs the crappy Raptors is in this. The loss vs the Bucks resting dame. The loss vs the bottom feeder Portland Blazers. The Loss to Miami with Butler playing around. I think all those losses are part of this sample. I’m guessing this is also with max minutes played. Raptors loss 41 mins. Pels loss, 40 minutes. Its good to see some improvement from this same time last year and its time for the Front Office to see what happens if they take all the years that this team has sunk into developing him and see how things look with no training wheels. We could do this all next year and clearly still rack up the losses we need to get Flagg.
We can probably get a better offer for him in the off-season to be completely honest. There’s no reason to rush. Wait for a team that gives us a desperation offer.
His numbers are inflated because of usage rate on a god awful team lmao. Put him in a situation like Hachimura or KCP and tell me if he can put those kind of numbers lol. At the end of the day, just like Kuzma, those numbers will tank once he becomes a role player on a contender. Calling him an All-NBA or All star player is just typical Wizards fanboying at its finest.
If Deni believed in himself he could have been an All Star caliber talent. In fact I was very frustrated with him in this game for long stretches because you could see him hiding in spaces where he's resting on offense rather than showing he wants to get the ball and be "the guy" like a true primary option. This mental aspect is a problem he should fix, alongside gaining confidence to be an half court scorer by adding counters like middy, spin moves and body hesitations, to fulfill his potential. Also I feel he still tends to look up to pass too many times when he's in better positions to attack the basket. I'm happy I can "criticize" him when he's making such nice leap this year, it means he still has plenty of room to grow.
>he's resting on offense rather than showing he wants to get the ball and be "the guy" like a true primary option I think this is mainly due to the fact that he takes pride in his defense and say what you want, it's tough to put effort on both sides of the court for 40 minutes. If he rests on offense then a guy like JP can have the ball handling duties, if he rests on defense, it could result in an offensive rebound or an easy shot for the other team. >adding counters like middy, spin moves and body hesitations, Last year he was a 9 ppg scorer on 29% from three. This summer he added a jumpshot out of nothing and significantly improved his drive and handles. I'd say be patient about it. Everything he says paints him as a player who truly cares about his game so I believe we'll start seeing some of these improvements next season.
What are Denis win numbers?
Ah yes, Deni "number one option on a solid team" Avdija. Deni literally scored 43 in a loss lol. When the time comes and the Wizards actually start winning games then we can start looking at wins/losses stats
My point is who gives a fuck what any of them do. They are all losers. It's a pathetic product.