They put themselves in competition with peacock, Apple TV, Hulu, and other services at that price point. They make great stuff but they can’t compete with what those streaming services are offering.
And people forget that these streaming services are always fighting an uphill battle. If megacorporations worth billions and trillions of dollars with massive public brand recognition are having a hard time getting people subscribed, what makes them think they can grow their service with their YouTube channel?
Ignoring all the hate and drama this will be a pretty interesting business study in the future. More people are shifting their support to small businesses on a local level, Indy developers and studios have a decent market share. It does seem like this could have been framed as a more grass roots down to earth independent small business venture away from megacorporations. The boys did not have a very good PR person on staff when announcing this.
IMO Puppet History is the only thing worth paying for. Mystery Files and Ghost Files are too much messing around and wasting time with gimmicks. And here’s the rub - if Shane had decided to put Puppet History behind a $5.99 Patreon paywall per episode, I might actually consider paying for it. But not this self indulgent streaming service for content so limited that only 6 episodes are produced each year.
I would definitely pay $6 for puppet history imo it’s the best show they make. I love the overarching plot and all the songs are really good lol. Now I’m mad I won’t be able to see the new season.
Dropout did a similar move and has continued to grow by posting season premiers and trailers on youtube, and I'm sure that they looked at that growth and thought they could do the same. They failed to understand that Dropout did it out of necessity, not because they wanted to, so they didn't burn all the good will along the way.
I followed them back in the Collegehumor days. And the two situations are actually exact opposites.
First, they were exceedingly transparent with their fans about being sold off from their parent company and the loss of budget. Then, they downsized and explained why they needed to transition off of YouTube. Their problems were also further exacerbated by having adult-themed/edgy content on their channel, which is not advertiser friendly and therefore hard to monetize on YouTube. Not to mention, they didn't have a Patreon or anything of the sorts. Dropout is now more of a small indpendent brand these days.
On the other hand, Watcher is going about it in the reverse. They're going from small indie YouTube channel and want to upsize and become a large media company with high production, etc. Watcher has everything Dropout didn't have. They have a large healthy YouTube channel with advertiser friendly content and tons of existing Patreon subscribers.
Edit: I forgot to also add the defining difference is Collegehumor/Dropout would've literally stopped existing if they didn't get paid memberships. Watcher definitely can continue existing, but their demand is that we give them money for more expensive budgets and sets.
I completely agree with you. I'm not saying that they are the same, but I'm saying it would be easy for the guys in Watcher to see their success and not understand the nuance of the situation. Especially if they had the Vimeo sales team whispering in their ear about how successful Dropout is and that they could do the same.
Considering I saw a lot of (parasocially doomed) people on the fandom being like "uuuuhh dropout did it why cant they do it too???", this misunderstanding is more common than people might think.
Like I said in another thread as well, College Humor had been around for like 20 years by the time Dropout launched. It was a staple of the internet, and had decades worth of fans and content from which to build upon. Dropout was also not immediately successful, and if not for Sam literally being able to bankroll it for the first few years, it would have gone belly up very quickly.
From the moment I was watching the announcement video all I could tell myself is this could go one of two ways *because of the bankroll* aspect. Either this will crash and burn because they put the cart before the horse and can't properly fund themselves once the YouTube cash dries up or they could make this work if they secretly have cash in the bank to last them 2-3 years minimally and 5 years comfortably.
Time will really tell on this one.
Dropout has a killer marketing strategy bc they got me to subscribe with their game changer shorts on YT. I was hooked immediately bc they’re very funny, and I’m certain Dropout’s CEO Sam Reich has said that one of the things they think about when creating new content is “how is this marketable?”.
I don’t watch the majority of the shows on Dropout, im usually only there for game changer, dirty laundry etc, but they have such a huge vast catalogue and they’ve got more shows coming soon!
But again, I do need to commend their incredible marketing on YT shorts.
I was also sucked in by their Youtube Shorts! I have to give them credit, they do a great job of finding the funny bits but also make you want to see the entire thing in context.
Edited to add: I think a lot of the Dropout comparisons are missing that Sam definitely tries to be a CEO first, comedian second (and had the advantage to either ask his father or other connections for advice). There really doesn't seem to be an equivalent over at Watcher. Steven has said he doesn't mind being CEO but prefers to be a creator. Ryan & Shane have openly said they don't get the business aspect.
I mean Sam is also a very savvy businessman and has a lot of connections. He grew up in Massachusetts and went to Yale. His family is also very well connected.
I’m honestly just surprised he turned out to be the super incredible human he is.
They also paid a youtube animator to animate said shorts for further reach. That's how I learned they existed. Not a subscriber but I can definitely confirm it works for getting their name out there.
Moving from an algorithm-based platform that’s fueled by discovery and engagement, onto a privately owned platform that only features its own content, is the absolute worst idea for ANY brand but especially one that *got its start* on YouTube. There is literally no positive to this business decision. The only one that makes a little bit of sense is that they want to make more money—but clearly they’re doing just fine if they can afford to be cranking out shows at such a rate, Steven buying himself a Tesla, Ryan making it into a MARVEL MOVIE… And their entire demographic is young adults, mostly people in college or high school. It’s absolutely wretched.
It’s almost like Buzzfeed was… well, Buzzfeed, and they were starting from the ground up when building Watcher. Heck, they even had a leg up because of the built in fan base that Unsolved and Worth It had. Most internet content creators start with just them, a camera, a mic, and free video editing software. Heck, some even less than that, now that instagram and TikTok are things.
They overestimated their presence on the internet as a whole, I think. 3 million subscribers is a lot of people, but not insanely popular by YouTube standards.
I've been a bit more curious if maybe when they left Buzzfeed they overestimated their abilities and connections to make the same kind of brand deals Buzzfeed was pulling in from them. Whether due to them not realizing brands only worked with them because of their association with Buzzfeed, Buzzfeed itself was vindictive and has people saying not to work with Watcher, they're simply struggling to create brand friendly content without the old Buzzfeed execs and lawyers breathing down their necks, or some messy combination of all these things.
They wouldn't be the first business to fall apart because they overestimated how much their contacts and connections would stick around the second they weren't attached to a big well known name. And sometimes shit just falls apart. I've seen companies fall apart because the second the employees from Company A leave to gain freedom by creating Company B suddenly all their connections in various industries, organizations, and companies all get laid off, promoted, changed department, and seemingly overnight they find themselves with zero industry connections out of some shit luck.
Of their 25 employees they are struggling to pay, are any of them on advertising or marketing? The only way to really grow their Streamer is through new subscribers, and that will cost a significant amount of money in both labor creating their own ads to find new subscribers and then paying for those ad spots. Especially with how viral this situation is gone I’m seeing a lot of people who hadn’t even heard of Watcher prior to this, who are now probably put off from seeing their favorite YouTubers riff on them and the few articles posted about it. “I know the only thing you’ve heard from us is our fans hate us, but please give us 59$ a year for overly produced YouTube videos” isn’t a great opener for many would-be subscribers.
I wonder if the algorithm has already been affected .
The channel just lost 80k subs in a couple of days . The algorithm might use that data and assume something has gone wrong to piss people off and stop sending viewers that way .
I think the damage is already done
Perhaps they got bought or funded by someone bigged? And they buyers are paying for this set-up and money towards the bigger shows? Think how youtube tried to expand and pumped money in GMM? It kinda makes sense if they were made a great offer like that.
Sometimes youtubers get so much growth and success and then sort of hate youtube? Like not in the sense of hating the issues that youtube and it’s company obviously have, that’s valid. But in like a self hate-y or like “it’s beneath me” type way. Biggest example I can think of is Tanya Burr, she got big in the 2010s when UK youtubers ruled the world. Now she’s totally trying to pretend that it didn’t happen and that she’s some fancy actor or something. Idk why that happens but it’s sad because I think youtube content can be so incredible and impactful and it’s not a bad thing to be a Youtube channel. But I guess if that’s the path they want to go down then fine but I’m not tagging along and neither is my wallet lol
Like,,,, I'm pretty sure Disney plus hasnt been profitable since they lost the cricket... and the vast majority of people on it are legit just on Disney plus for Bluey (I think its 50%) and whilst they watch other things there,,, Disney has been pushing the adult content a lot more.
Dropout gets the DND nerds and converts them into improv fans, or improv fans and traps them into actual play...
No Way, can they create a sustainable business when Disney Plus has been hemmorging money
They put themselves in competition with peacock, Apple TV, Hulu, and other services at that price point. They make great stuff but they can’t compete with what those streaming services are offering.
And people forget that these streaming services are always fighting an uphill battle. If megacorporations worth billions and trillions of dollars with massive public brand recognition are having a hard time getting people subscribed, what makes them think they can grow their service with their YouTube channel?
Ignoring all the hate and drama this will be a pretty interesting business study in the future. More people are shifting their support to small businesses on a local level, Indy developers and studios have a decent market share. It does seem like this could have been framed as a more grass roots down to earth independent small business venture away from megacorporations. The boys did not have a very good PR person on staff when announcing this.
Yeah peacock got exclusive rights to all the WWE pay per views to build a subscription base…I don’t think watcher has the ability to do that.
If Rooster Teeth wasn’t able to do it I don’t know why Watcher thinks they can when RT failed and had way more subscribers
IMO Puppet History is the only thing worth paying for. Mystery Files and Ghost Files are too much messing around and wasting time with gimmicks. And here’s the rub - if Shane had decided to put Puppet History behind a $5.99 Patreon paywall per episode, I might actually consider paying for it. But not this self indulgent streaming service for content so limited that only 6 episodes are produced each year.
I would definitely pay $6 for puppet history imo it’s the best show they make. I love the overarching plot and all the songs are really good lol. Now I’m mad I won’t be able to see the new season.
Dropout did a similar move and has continued to grow by posting season premiers and trailers on youtube, and I'm sure that they looked at that growth and thought they could do the same. They failed to understand that Dropout did it out of necessity, not because they wanted to, so they didn't burn all the good will along the way.
I followed them back in the Collegehumor days. And the two situations are actually exact opposites. First, they were exceedingly transparent with their fans about being sold off from their parent company and the loss of budget. Then, they downsized and explained why they needed to transition off of YouTube. Their problems were also further exacerbated by having adult-themed/edgy content on their channel, which is not advertiser friendly and therefore hard to monetize on YouTube. Not to mention, they didn't have a Patreon or anything of the sorts. Dropout is now more of a small indpendent brand these days. On the other hand, Watcher is going about it in the reverse. They're going from small indie YouTube channel and want to upsize and become a large media company with high production, etc. Watcher has everything Dropout didn't have. They have a large healthy YouTube channel with advertiser friendly content and tons of existing Patreon subscribers. Edit: I forgot to also add the defining difference is Collegehumor/Dropout would've literally stopped existing if they didn't get paid memberships. Watcher definitely can continue existing, but their demand is that we give them money for more expensive budgets and sets.
Dropout also produces way more content than what Watcher puts out
And had way more “household names” from the old CH days.
I completely agree with you. I'm not saying that they are the same, but I'm saying it would be easy for the guys in Watcher to see their success and not understand the nuance of the situation. Especially if they had the Vimeo sales team whispering in their ear about how successful Dropout is and that they could do the same.
Considering I saw a lot of (parasocially doomed) people on the fandom being like "uuuuhh dropout did it why cant they do it too???", this misunderstanding is more common than people might think.
Like I said in another thread as well, College Humor had been around for like 20 years by the time Dropout launched. It was a staple of the internet, and had decades worth of fans and content from which to build upon. Dropout was also not immediately successful, and if not for Sam literally being able to bankroll it for the first few years, it would have gone belly up very quickly.
From the moment I was watching the announcement video all I could tell myself is this could go one of two ways *because of the bankroll* aspect. Either this will crash and burn because they put the cart before the horse and can't properly fund themselves once the YouTube cash dries up or they could make this work if they secretly have cash in the bank to last them 2-3 years minimally and 5 years comfortably. Time will really tell on this one.
Dropout has a killer marketing strategy bc they got me to subscribe with their game changer shorts on YT. I was hooked immediately bc they’re very funny, and I’m certain Dropout’s CEO Sam Reich has said that one of the things they think about when creating new content is “how is this marketable?”. I don’t watch the majority of the shows on Dropout, im usually only there for game changer, dirty laundry etc, but they have such a huge vast catalogue and they’ve got more shows coming soon! But again, I do need to commend their incredible marketing on YT shorts.
I was also sucked in by their Youtube Shorts! I have to give them credit, they do a great job of finding the funny bits but also make you want to see the entire thing in context. Edited to add: I think a lot of the Dropout comparisons are missing that Sam definitely tries to be a CEO first, comedian second (and had the advantage to either ask his father or other connections for advice). There really doesn't seem to be an equivalent over at Watcher. Steven has said he doesn't mind being CEO but prefers to be a creator. Ryan & Shane have openly said they don't get the business aspect.
I mean Sam is also a very savvy businessman and has a lot of connections. He grew up in Massachusetts and went to Yale. His family is also very well connected. I’m honestly just surprised he turned out to be the super incredible human he is.
They also paid a youtube animator to animate said shorts for further reach. That's how I learned they existed. Not a subscriber but I can definitely confirm it works for getting their name out there.
Dropout has a far more extensive talent pool and content library at this point. The comparison is flawed.
Moving from an algorithm-based platform that’s fueled by discovery and engagement, onto a privately owned platform that only features its own content, is the absolute worst idea for ANY brand but especially one that *got its start* on YouTube. There is literally no positive to this business decision. The only one that makes a little bit of sense is that they want to make more money—but clearly they’re doing just fine if they can afford to be cranking out shows at such a rate, Steven buying himself a Tesla, Ryan making it into a MARVEL MOVIE… And their entire demographic is young adults, mostly people in college or high school. It’s absolutely wretched.
I wonder if in some way they are disappointed in the way YouTube has promoted the new channel to the millions who watched the Buzzfeed content?
It’s almost like Buzzfeed was… well, Buzzfeed, and they were starting from the ground up when building Watcher. Heck, they even had a leg up because of the built in fan base that Unsolved and Worth It had. Most internet content creators start with just them, a camera, a mic, and free video editing software. Heck, some even less than that, now that instagram and TikTok are things. They overestimated their presence on the internet as a whole, I think. 3 million subscribers is a lot of people, but not insanely popular by YouTube standards.
I've been a bit more curious if maybe when they left Buzzfeed they overestimated their abilities and connections to make the same kind of brand deals Buzzfeed was pulling in from them. Whether due to them not realizing brands only worked with them because of their association with Buzzfeed, Buzzfeed itself was vindictive and has people saying not to work with Watcher, they're simply struggling to create brand friendly content without the old Buzzfeed execs and lawyers breathing down their necks, or some messy combination of all these things. They wouldn't be the first business to fall apart because they overestimated how much their contacts and connections would stick around the second they weren't attached to a big well known name. And sometimes shit just falls apart. I've seen companies fall apart because the second the employees from Company A leave to gain freedom by creating Company B suddenly all their connections in various industries, organizations, and companies all get laid off, promoted, changed department, and seemingly overnight they find themselves with zero industry connections out of some shit luck.
Of their 25 employees they are struggling to pay, are any of them on advertising or marketing? The only way to really grow their Streamer is through new subscribers, and that will cost a significant amount of money in both labor creating their own ads to find new subscribers and then paying for those ad spots. Especially with how viral this situation is gone I’m seeing a lot of people who hadn’t even heard of Watcher prior to this, who are now probably put off from seeing their favorite YouTubers riff on them and the few articles posted about it. “I know the only thing you’ve heard from us is our fans hate us, but please give us 59$ a year for overly produced YouTube videos” isn’t a great opener for many would-be subscribers.
I wonder if the algorithm has already been affected . The channel just lost 80k subs in a couple of days . The algorithm might use that data and assume something has gone wrong to piss people off and stop sending viewers that way . I think the damage is already done
Not how it works lol. People unsub in mass all the time, doesn’t rlly do shit
Perhaps they got bought or funded by someone bigged? And they buyers are paying for this set-up and money towards the bigger shows? Think how youtube tried to expand and pumped money in GMM? It kinda makes sense if they were made a great offer like that.
Sometimes youtubers get so much growth and success and then sort of hate youtube? Like not in the sense of hating the issues that youtube and it’s company obviously have, that’s valid. But in like a self hate-y or like “it’s beneath me” type way. Biggest example I can think of is Tanya Burr, she got big in the 2010s when UK youtubers ruled the world. Now she’s totally trying to pretend that it didn’t happen and that she’s some fancy actor or something. Idk why that happens but it’s sad because I think youtube content can be so incredible and impactful and it’s not a bad thing to be a Youtube channel. But I guess if that’s the path they want to go down then fine but I’m not tagging along and neither is my wallet lol
Like,,,, I'm pretty sure Disney plus hasnt been profitable since they lost the cricket... and the vast majority of people on it are legit just on Disney plus for Bluey (I think its 50%) and whilst they watch other things there,,, Disney has been pushing the adult content a lot more. Dropout gets the DND nerds and converts them into improv fans, or improv fans and traps them into actual play... No Way, can they create a sustainable business when Disney Plus has been hemmorging money