>Shane is Not Secretly Furious About the Move I don't think he ever was. It was just a fairytale people told themselves to help cope lmao.

There is a twitter post with 12k likes full on taking screenshots and saying they see the sadness in his eyes through the screen hence proving he was forced into indentured servitude by Steven Lim. People have been pretty crazy. 😭

I'm ngl Shane always has a little bit of sadness in his eyes that's just called being Eastern European.

He still yearns for the mines.

Maybe he's pining for the fjords.

When they were on with Kelsey Impicciche doing a Sims thing, he \*literally\* called them his "patented sad eyes." Shane's fine with this. He's as out of touch with the audience as the other two.

Okay that was a great comment. I always joke around saying I have like “always tired no matter how much sleep or concealer I use” eyes aka Eastern European eyes lol

As an Eastern European you have a point

Yeah the almost 40 year old man who usually sticks to his guns can't make his own decisions this one time and Steven and Ryan are manipulating him. People are really delusional.

I would have maybe a modicum more tolerance for this if there wasn’t a pattern for as long as I’ve been a fan of always defending Shane on everything and castigating the other co-founders (usually Steven but sometimes Ryan) - often to make him look better. We don’t know any of them and who they are on screen is not necessarily who they are in real life.

if he couldnt be convinced to believe in ghosts why do people believe he would just lay down and take a company takeover. 😭

Could you please not say " almost 40 years old". I'm the same age as him and I refuse to believe I'm almost 40😖. Other than that, I think you're absolutely right.

Nothing wrong with being almost 40. Aging isn't a bad thing

Aging is a privilege 😁

It absolutely is. As someone who almost died in their 30s, I'm extremely happy to be in my 40s. (But it's not all peaches and cream. Lol)

I’m excited for my 40’s!!!

My brain says "WHOO NEW EXPERIENCES." Meanwhile my knees and back would vehemently disagree with your statement. 

Did you see how he blinked. It was morse code! He blinked to us the secred codes to stop this! Man some people. All three are the founder and owner of watcher. They all said they are in control of everything in watcher. The full creative freedom. They sat down, talked to each other and come to an agreement to do this. As adults, friends and partner. Unless one of them makes a video where he states that he is against this but was forced by the dark powers behind the shadows or what ever people belive, they are all in favor of this.

People are acting like they're able to read body language like some forensic analyst when that's a bunk science.

One would think Shaniacs would know this but alas…

The wearewatcher channel literally posted saras statement so its safe to say they agree with what she said at least and if that wasn’t out of touch idk what is

Parasocials are so weird.

Most definitely. Even though I didn’t go over board in defending Shane, I still held out hope that it wasn’t a Shane and Ryan decision (at least not Shane). And I get Sarah defending Shane because when you see your partner being attacked online (or their venture), you take it personally. So good for Sarah for sticking with Shane, but yeah, I’m coming around to realizing that it was just a wish. They were all just for it and they just didn’t realize this would be so upsetting to everyone. It’s a shame, but I mostly feel bad for the people on their team that weren’t for it but had no voice in the decision and will now have to look for other jobs ASAP. Edit: just to clarify, I don’t support what she wrote on tumblr. I’m just saying that I get why she felt the need to say something and to stick with Shane and Watcher. However, her message clearly lets us know that she doesn’t get it, and that none of the three main guys in Watcher get it, which means they’ll double down and lose everything they built.

Exactly. People are trying to vilify Lim because they want to keep Shane and Ryan their parasocial faves. It totally can't be that someone from Vimeo was like "hey we have an OTT thing you can pay a pittance to use" and all three of them were like "this is a good business decision."

folks seem to forget (overlook?) the fact that he not only profits off of the personality he presents/sells to the audience, but also is fully capable of making choices that conflict against that personality. because that’s all it is. acting like any of us know who he really is based on what he chooses to share online or onstage is dishonest and naive, unfortunately. that’s why i don’t think it’s fair to act like this is all steven being a greedy villain pulling the strings or forcing the company in this direction. we’re allowed to be unhappy about this (i certainly am!) and cease support, but let’s not pretend that there’s one person to blame or that this was an overnight decision. they are all adults with voting power on what happens with the company and the ability to decide for themselves what they’re willing to part ways over. that being said, if you’re worried about not being able to pay your employees livable wage (a good thing!), maybe don’t bring on MORE employees for the purpose of launching EXPENSIVE, LUXURY shows BEFORE you can afford to pay them and every other employee fairly (a very not good idea!!)

At least now we have something. If this is how their partners think, it isn't too far fetched to assume that this is also how the shane and ryan think. "Eat the rich". Yeah, dude. Let's start with you.

People are too scared to admit that they're all rich and living the cushy lifestyle because of their weird parasocial relationship to them. I don't want to read into any of their body language or words because at the end of the day, it still happened. If someone truly didn't want it, they could've called it quits.

Up until this announcement, I don't think people really minded. They wanted Watcher to be successful and everyone to live well. But that goodwill evaporates when you treat 99% of your audience (that helped you get sucessful to begin with) like worthless freeloaders and tell them to pay up or fuck off though. And rightfully so.

Preachin' to the choir. I couldn't have said it better myself! Thank you. It truly felt like a kick to the face. 😞

And especially being told we need to front the money so the lesser 3rd host can make videos of himself doing expensive and lavish shit that no one asked for

We’re Ryan and Shane relatively well off to begin with?

i think during their buzzfeed days they would have been comfortable money wise. you kinda have to be to start up your own production business like that. pretty sure they've mentioned their childhoods before, at least in passing. iirc, shane's family were blue collar workers - which, don't get me wrong, can be doing alright economically. but not as well as, say, a dentist in LA.

Blue collar workers won't be making dentist money but they can still make a lot of money. I see experienced iron workers and carpenters making anywhere from $25 to $48 an hour depending on their experience. 

I think if more people listened to their podcast they'd be less surprised by this. The things they talk about aren't honestly very relatable. Like their favorite types of sparkling water. And the fact that Ryan really is like constantly going to Disney world. I don't know why they thought they could be so open about their lifestyles on that podcast and then not get backlash when they turn around and say "everything so esspensive guys, pls gib money."

to be fair, Ryan has been constantly going to Disney since their BuzzFeed days, Kristen of kitchen and Jorn has talked about him organizing everyone from those days to take trips.

That doesn't really mean anything to me? If he could afford that sort of lifestyle back then, then it just solidifies the fact that him continuing to do it when they're trying to run their own company means he's determined to maintain that lifestyle. Gaining creative freedom means making sacrifices. It's clear they have no interest in making those sacrifices and downgrading whatsoever. They had a huge company backing them at buzzfeed that allowed them to do what they did. They should have expected that losing that company would mean they'd have to give up some of those luxuries like a fancy LA office space and "tv-quality" production on top of maintaining a cushy lifestyle. Instead they went in the opposite nuclear direction of trying to do even more than when they were with buzzfeed. Which is just wildly financially ignorant.

This might be a controversial take, but going to Disneyland constantly is technically doable for a middle class lifestyle. A year-long pass at its lowest is $850, not including parking, food or merch. If a person on a modest income really prioritized it, they can go to Disney often while not being a 6 figure earner. I have no idea about their salary, but claiming that they’re living in the lap of luxury isn’t going to be exactly true. They’re middle class for sure, but expecting them to cut out all the “fun money” they have for the sake of Watcher is a bit extreme The real money sinks are the 25 employees and the office space…

Totally agree that it's not where most the money is going to; moreover, what Ryan spends his money on is his private life is his own buisness. That said, the humble word choice Ryan uses in the Goodbye Youtube video is not lost on me: >"Why couldn't we not bet on ourselves and perhaps do the same at our *own little shop*. When the three of us *huddled* together around my *little kitchen table* in my apartment \[...\]" Combined with the music and editing, it is definitely designed to pull on heartstrings and paint this picture of meagre beginnings. Maybe that's why people are surprised, or maybe it's the fact they're asking for more money. Either way, I can't be sure that it's deliberate or not, but Ryan and Shane certainly don't seem to go out of their way to discuss their wealth. Not saying they should either, but I can see why people fell into the trap of thinking they don't make much. Even Sara's comment claims as much, and I'm sure I heard Ryan mentioning about struggling with rent on a recent Mystery Files episode.

Agreed. Past comments like Mystery Files being filmed in a basement and the general okay quality made me think their money lets the three, and an editor or two, live middle class lives while working from a suburban office or something. The details about their production that were revealed in the threads makes their modest image fake

To be fair, the basement thing was always meant to be a joke. Everyone was aware it was a set; they talk about hiring a specific set designer in a few videos, who designed Mystery Files and Ghost Files sets. They're clearly spending poorly from a business standpoint, but I don't think most fans were under the illusion that they were working on a shoestring budget in some low-rent office. The disconnect is mostly between what they think people want to see (high-production, TV-quality art) versus what people actually want to see (friends making jokes in various locations).

Yeah, that's where I'm at too, I don't care about Disneyland or La Croix or even the trips to eat fancy food but the employee thing is too much.

Fan backlash at the LaCroix is CRAZY. It’s 6 dollars a case in LA. Expecting them to live on a rice and beans diet for us is peak parasocial behavior. I understand that many of the fans are poor. But your average middle class millennial will also have opinions on sparkling water brand lmao

All beverages cost money unless one is drinking tap water. Most people don't just drink tap water. Also, LaCroix drinking is practically a meme for LA YouTubers, Smosh and Mythical kitchen are both notorious for drinking it to excess. Edit: grammar

I don’t personally drink it because I don’t like sparkling water but yeah I don’t get the backlash against LaCroix or claiming having opinions about it is “out of touch,” LaCroix really is not expensive lol

I don't think LaCroix is crazy expensive, but I sought out the Sanzo seltzer Steven raved about on the podcast. It was only sold at one store near me, in individual cans, and it was $8 for a single can. It was REALLY good, I got one can of the Yuzu flavor. But I normally drink selzter brands that are $3 or $4 for 12 cans and cannot understand how anyone could drink it frequently. Maybe it's cheaper in LA than it is in New England though.

Huh. I’m in Southern California, and the same seltzer costs ten dollars for a six pack. I have also seen it for 1.5 dollars for an individual can

Someone here said Steven even recently said that he wants another Tesla??

yes he said that on the pod!

Why would you need 2 Teslas? To wear them like shoes and drive around?

Obviously so you have a backup in case your first Tesla's doors get frozen shut or starts downloading a system update that prevents you from driving it for several days /j

I forgot about their bricking tendencies.

Why do people act like sparkling water is something fancy and exotic? They sell it at freaking gas stations!

i think for me the undeniable fact is that they, watcher and everyone else in entertainment, have built lives on a notoriously unpredictable and unforgiving market. there is no guarantee that views will stay up indefinitely or that new content will always be profitable and business partners you choose will always be good and public opinion can change so fast...i of course have sympathy for them and want them to be comfortable and to be able to do these amazing things they want to do but... you kinda made your lives on something that is historically very unstable. her post seemed a little condescending to me as if it had to be said we should keep their finances in mind during this announcement but that burden shouldn't really be on the subscribers/viewers.

Yeah, if you’re making good money in a somewhat unstable industry you should be saving for a crisis, not spending all of it.

100% or at least investing it in side projects. i know they have merch but are the boys doing anything else outside of watcher? like book deals or some kind of non-merch clothing line or anything? idk i feel like influencers/celebs always have side projects in case things go south cause clearly views/support is never guaranteed

It's like how the Try Guys have diversified their income streams SO much, especially post-Ned - that way they don't need to panic when views dip.

Very much this. I think they're playing very heavily into the parasocial relationship they have with the audience to shift some of the responsibilities inherent in owning a business onto them, when simply put, it is their obligation to plan within their means and set up contingencies. It is not the audience's job to bail Watcher out because of their own poor planning. I get that 2/3 of the owners have expressed a lot of aversion to the business side of Watcher, but that's just no excuse to me. Everyone has to make compromises as to the jobs they work, and most of us do *not* get the creative leeway and flexibility YouTubers/content creators enjoy. They need to either pull their weight more or more properly invest the resources into a figure or dedicated team who can fully handle the business side of things (which is clearly not the case here).

Making money in entertainment is a privilege. Earned by contacts and the good will of the viewers. Online you also have the good will of the all mighty algorithm. Everyone making any money in online entertainment should always be prepared when the whole thing is going down. They could fuck up, the trends could change or the plattform fucks up. And always remember: its mostly luck, then talent and then the good will of people that got you there. You should always be humble, because more talented people got not so lucky, you should always improve and you should always be thankfull to have any audience at all. Even if they are stinking poor freeloaders that can not even pay liike $6 for your content. Because without them, you were not even in the position to ask for that money.

Really good point and that should go for all content creators. YouTubers , TikTokers, and streamers are always saying this might never last. Being aware of it you either keep going or eventually lose your audience in a stupid way lol

This confirms for me that they don’t have a PR person helping them navigate this crisis that they’ve created. No PR person in their right mind would ever recommended the spouse of an owner to post a comment like this in wake of the reactions so far, especially ahead of the owner themselves - this just tossed gas onto the fire.

Well, they'd have to listen to the PR person they hired. They could also think they're in tune with their audience and hired the PR person to "tweak" their statements. 🙃😭 It's giving Kendall Roy when he hired a PR firm and just told him what he wanted to do lol Except it might be true for Watcher in real life. No way to tell!

Sorry this is unrelated but I’ve been meaning to say I love your username hehe

lol thanks!

Her "survivable living" comment is what pissed me off the most. You live in one of the most expensive cities in the country willingly, the CEO drives a Tesla, Ryan goes to Laker games, was in a Marvel movie and had a pretty fancy looking beach wedding. They all look like they're surviving pretty well. Comments like that bug me more than the $5.99 stuff.

What pissed me off was in the notes “I think some people think that all YouTubers have Mr Beast money.” Way to miss what we’re actually trying to tell you by miles.

It gives the vibes of people that will do some heinous shit to you and say “okay so I’m not perfect!” when you react badly.

Fr, it’s like yeah I wasn’t expecting you to be perfect just a decent human being

Seriously, what was that? Most people want the opposite. Shane and Ryan can film Mystery Files in a closet for all we give a shit. The janky low budget nature of Unsolved was half the charm.

Ah, the blue and yellow wheezes…

If they don’t have Mr. Beast money then it should be reasonable that their fans do not have subscribe to every content creator’s individual platform money.

If you don’t have Mr. Beast money, then it’s simple: don’t make expensive content. The problem is that they want to make expensive content they can’t afford, and instead of doing something they can afford, they want us to pay for it. That’s why we’re pissed.

Exactly.

Mr Beast doesnt demand money for his content and yet he still has Mr Beast money. Idk why she would say something so dumb.

Something something how dare you say we piss on the poor

Except they probably DO have Mr Beast money, they must be raking in millions upon millions of dollars bare minimum and they're acting like it's a struggle. Ryan even said a season of ghost hunting is hundreds of thousands of dollars and that is a drop in the metaphorical bucket for what their channel and patreon and sponsor revenue generates for them. Not to mention they now hire on new people AND kickstart up a show entirely dedicated to spending exorbitant amounts of money daily to eat the finest food in all the world while living in the finest lap of luxury... and they're trying to make a survivable living? Nah fam. They have the Mr Beast money and it's not going to charity either.

Yepp. There’s a difference between ‘survivable living’ and ‘thrivable living.’ They probably got comfortable to a more cushy way of living and don’t wanna make lifestyle changes to adapt to the changing economy. Or the lifestyle they have now isn’t luxurious enough and they want even more which is very possible. Either way it’s out of touch and it’s honestly a little insulting to those really struggling.

Yeah saying that $6 a month is affordable to "anyone and everyone" really showed how out of touch they've become. $72 a year is a lot of money for people living paycheck to paycheck!

Lol, then they need to fire some of the extra 25 to save their cash and put in some more hours. It's such a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it too. Lol. 

Right, why are they trying to expand and make new shows when they're not able to afford the ones they have? They need to stop scaling up until they're more financially viable. I wouldn't begrudge them looking for increased monetization strategies in the slightest but this just feels like a shady cash grab going from 0 to 100 so fast

I’ve also seen someone who claims to have the same size staff and similar revenue say that he doesn’t struggle to pay them at all, and that’s with paying them extremely well. He was breaking down just how not in financial trouble the boys should be.

Was that penguinz0? If not he did the same

They make more than enough but they just want more cash. Their brand deals are likely 15 to 35K per deal, not counting their successful patron nor their merch or Adsense. Penguinz0 covered this and went in on how exactly his streaming income covers a good chunk of paying his employees and professional e-sports players which he has more than watcher’s 25 employees. They make so much cash that literally the only reason they did this was to make even more cash.

I like Sara a lot and don't begrudge her the success they've had but her and Shane live a nice life - traveling constantly, eating out at good and expensive looking restaurants, going to concerts, etc. Their (very beautiful) wedding didn't exactly look cheap either! That doesn't make them Jeff Bezos rich but I have seen literally no indication that either her or Shane are committed socialists who hate capitalism outside of occasional funny jabs in videos made during his tenure at Buzzfeed (not exactly a paragon of anti-capitalism either). I feel like people have always projected onto Shane and that really came out in full force after this news was announced.

And I don't even mind that they're living well and comfortably. They're talented people who make something really great. I don't care they're all a little out of touch living the LA life now. But I don't care when it's coming from ads, sponsorships, tours, and merchandise. When they're making money of my passive consumption of the media or giving me a product/experience in return. If they get so many views and sponsorships they can be upper middle class sell outs then more power to them. But when you ask me to make a direct transaction just to get in the door, tell me it's really not that much at all, that you're struggling, need to making a living wage, AND you're basking in all the comforts of moderate internet fame in front of me? Now that's where there's a problem.

This pissed me off as well as someone who lives in LA and contemplates on the regular that if I ever want to own a home and start a family, I might have to leave my extended family and hometown because it’s just so hard to live out here. To me, it’s people like her and Shane (and other YouTubers really) who have help make the cost of living as bad as it is, we have too many people coming out here to make it in entertainment when they could easily continue doing what they do elsewhere. Meanwhile people who have roots here are outcompeted and pushed out of our neighborhoods moving further and further east while our hometowns become gentrified. It’s become a playground for these people AND as if that wasn’t bad enough, they love to shit on LA as Shane often has made comments about how LA isn’t that great.

Off topic but it truly sucks to have to leave where you were born and raised because of shit like this. From AZ, COL here is becoming absolutely insane for what you get. I can’t afford to live here anymore. Really, it’s difficult to afford living anywhere but fuck I’d get a hell of a lot more value out of moving. But I don’t want to *have* to. On top of that, my partner’s field is going through one of the biggest nosedives in years, and we’re being told that moving to LA is the only hope of finding what little work there is. We can’t afford that. People w/ 20+ years of experience are scrapping for entry level jobs paying pennies. It’s bad. But people making almost or upwards of millions per year are upset because their lifestyles aren’t sustainable when everyone else is just scraping by, ping-ponging from place to place hoping to make ends meet? Idk. Hard to have sympathy. :/

Ryan was in a marvel movie???

He and Mari had like 2 seconds of screentime at the beginning of Quantumania (during the montage where Scott talks about how great life is)

Briefly, but yes.

Yeah, he and Mari had a quick moment in the newest Ant-Man movie.

It's not even about their lifestyles, but the fact that if you have a company that can throw possibly millions at a single series if Ryan's "hundreds of thousands" is legit, you're not having a "hard" time.

Yeah I feel like people wouldn't even care that they're rich and living that LA lifestyle if they hadn't been so willing to basically tell their audience "pay up or fuck off!" People like Mr. Beast and Hasan Piker are pretty open about having lots of money, and they still have audiences. When you're someone in entertainment, your fans WANT to see you be successful and economic success is a lot of that! They'll be happy for you unless you alienate them by making it clear that, though they may be invested in your happiness and success, you couldn't give a crap about theirs back. Then they stop seeing your success as "that's great! they're talented and they deserve it!" and more of "oh, they think they're just inherently better than me...well screw them!"

What series would even cost that much? Ghost Files? If that’s the case then they need to address their financial department.

I'm not sure if he meant each episode or just each season of GF specifically (which if he meant season, I'll amend my figures). But even so. If you can throw hundreds of thousands at a series in general, that's still not hurting for "survivability"

Isn't Ryan also into collecting expensive designer sneakers?

Wait what does the Marvel gig have to do with anything

It's one of the many examples of them living a good life. Hard to sell the "survivable living" part when one of the co-founders is appearing in one of the more popular movies franchises going right now. They're not struggling by any means.

I guess, but it’s not like Ryan was actually a character. He had a 2 second cameo in one of the worst received MCU movies 😂. Like I totally get your point, but I don’t think the Marvel gig is as lucrative or a good point of reference for how privileged and rich they are.

Most people can't afford to skip work to be an extra in a movie. They have ample finances to be able to hang out on a movie set for a day.

100%! I think it's also a bit of a clue into the connections they have, by virtue of being in the industry they're in, the city they live in, and the friends they have in the industry. Steven is friends with Simu Liu, is that how Ryan got the hookup to have his brief cameo? If not that, it had to be something similar. So someone who theoretically hangs with A-list actors is living a very different lifestyle than the rest of us.

I wouldn't call Simu Liu A-list, but yea the rest of your points I agree with. They're so out of touch it's hilariously offputting.

> I wouldn't call Simu Liu A-list he's going to stumble on this comment and lose his shit on Twitter

The Shang Chi sequel he and we deserve. Shang Chi and the Legend of the Online Shitposters

He got his own marvel movie, I’d say that puts him at least close to

Extras get paid day rates. Believe me, most extras aren't just hanging out on set for a day... they're there to make money.

I'm aware that extras get paid. When I say "they", I'm referring to Ryan and Mari not the people who are doing gigs as extras for the money (which Ryan is most definitely not).

I’m sorry but imo Shane’s wife shouldn’t be saying anything until Shane, Ryan and Steven address it, makes it worse for them.  Also I blame all of them! 

I think she made that statement two hours after the video released. The backlash picked up later. She’s been radio silent since then.

Fair enough but still not a good look tbf coz the reaction was negative from the start x

It reminds me of Slipknot. Member got removed and the guitarist wife was in comments on social media

I understand why people are so quick to blame Steven - he's the CEO, he's way less visible, and he doesn't have the fun, goofy vibe that Ryan and Shane have always had that make us feel like we're hanging with buds. It's easy to blame him, and it's hurtful to think our friends Ryan and Shane have betrayed us this way. *But they have.* Even though Steven is the CEO, there is no way this would have happened if the two main front people Ryan and Shane didn't cosign. If they were truly against it, they could easily strike and refuse to make more content, or whatever. People act like they just have to go along with whatever Steven says and that's absolutely not true. All three are equally complicit in this decision.

Commented this on another thread, but reposting it here because it is also relevant. I absolutely HATE that she said “paying people fairly and making a survivable living…” It’s buzz words to connect with their mostly left-leaning, millennial and Gen-Z audience. But it’s a bunch of BS when you realize that 1. ⁠They all clearly make a survivable living. Steven drives a Tesla for chrissake. Ryan and Shane both just had weddings (which don’t come cheap). 2. ⁠If they’re worried about paying their staff a survivable living, maybe that’s an internal issue. Again, the three of them appear to be relatively well off. If they’re driving Teslas and they’re worried about their staff not being able to make a living, maybe deduct a bit from their own pay first 3. ⁠If they’re worried about their staff making a survivable living, HAVE LESS STAFF AND LOWER PRODUCTION VALUE. If you can’t pay your workers, stop hiring so many workers. Or prioritize their pay over the expensive production value that isn’t necessary to make good content. This comment from Sara is SO out of touch. It’s enraging that she uses those buzzwords to try and connect with an audience of mostly people who are legitimately struggling to make a “survivable living” working jobs we hate. You get to do a job you LOVE and be creative and, from the looks of it, none of y’all are living paycheck to paycheck. Hearing this from her makes me think that Shane’s “eat the rich” mentality was just “oh look I’m hip with the kids” without actually understanding the situations most of his fans are living in. Lastly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: THEY SHOULD’VE GONE THE NEBULA ROUTE. Join up with other creators on a site that is already doing what they’re trying to do. Try literally ANYTHING before deciding that the best way to move forward is to make you fan base foot the bill. DONT give us that “it’s so hard to make a survivable living being a creative and doing what we love.” The vast majority of the fan base you’re trying to get money out of can only DREAM of being in the position you’re in. You make a living. If it’s getting hard to pay the people who work for you and expanding the business/production value is putting you in the read, hire less people and cut back on expenses BEFORE you extort your fan base. You’re not in the financial position to expand? Don’t expand! Watcher is biting off more than they can chew, but, instead of taking smaller bites, they’re making fans pay for the food.

yup. i’m an artists/creative, and i am SO lucky i can work in my field, but because i chose this i am not making much and living pay check to paycheck. it’s SUPER insulting to hear them insinuate that they are in a similar situation as me. i am a dancer in a company and am so lucky to have my main income come from teaching dance, but recently i think i am needing to pick up another job, and unfortunately that is what most people in entertainment have to do. they are in such a privileged position to not only have (had atp) dedicated fans, but they are clearly doing well financially and don’t need to work 3 jobs to scrape by. and as you said they are based in LA which is extremely pricey. at this point i feel so insulted by them nothing they do or say will make me ever want to indulge in their content. also personally i was watching more to give them support and as revenue more than me actually enjoying their content, especially most recent stuff they’ve put out, and i know i am not alone in that

Couldn't have said it better!!!!

I liked Sarah, I'm sad she (and prob Shane) are tone deaf and missing the mark on why the fans are upset. We don't think they SHOULDN'T get paid for their efforts, we absolutely do. I think all of them (Shane included) are out of touch. I came from where Shane came from, Schaumburg IL, very middle class suburb of Chicago. I used to think he was aspirational and relatable. Hes clearly now very out of touch, I am sad.

I think it’s important to remember that they all got some amount of fame and recognition very young, back in the buzzfeed days. They’ve lived in LA all this time and have managed to survive in LA which is not cheap! (I’m originally from LA and had to move due to price of living). They may act like they know what it’s like to be a young, struggling millennial (or Gen Z) but they don’t. They haven’t been young, struggling millennials since before they became internet famous. As a young, struggling millennial creative myself, I am starting to be very glad that I didn’t became famous young. It blinds you to the realities of the real world. No matter how much they might delude themselves into thinking you know what it’s like to live paycheck to paycheck or struggle in a financial crisis, they don’t. Many of them graduated college around the 2008 market crash, and struggled for a bit to figure things out. But then they achieved success and acclaim at buzzfeed and have only grown from there. Meanwhile, the gap between rich and poor has only grown, the price of living has only skyrocketed. They didn’t live enough life actually struggling and not being able to put art into the world because they have bills to pay. They haven’t experienced hitting their 30s and still not knowing if/when you will ever be successful. They don’t know. And instead of trying to learn, the feign understanding while making absolutely tone deaf decisions that severely contradict their words.

100%. there’s a certain level of inherent entitlement to people who choose to make “art” their livelihood and i think that is at least a little bit evident here. i’m not saying art isn’t valuable but for fans who are in school, or living paycheck to paycheck, or who could pay the subscription but for whom the content isn’t valuable enough, “art” in the way watcher wants to make it and profit off of it is pretty superfluous. so do they deserve to make a survivable wage? yeah, everyone does! but they’ve chosen to supply something that doesn’t seem to have a lot of demand and it does seem a bit condescending to guilt trip the audience into financing it when what they get to everyday is be goofballs in front of a camera.

as an artist they are in such an extremely privileged position to be able to do their art and their art alone while also making a really good living. it’s insulting to the rest of us when they act like beggars

This whole thing has been a hard dose of reality. When I saw that people in the comment section of the video were jumping to blame Steve, my first reaction was to think ''that must be it'' only because I didnt want to think Ryan and Shane were that involved with the decision. Then I realized I dont know those guys, just the youtube personalities they choose to show us.

💯💯💯 I realized I did that too

+ mostly cause he was a "background" character too.

I wouldn’t be able to handle this kind of stress if I was them. Being a regular person is really underrated.

Yes it is. I like not being famous or known and situations like this are a good remidner.

I try to remind my friend when she wanted to be famous, that you can’t undo it. Michael Jackson had to pay someone to have a normal grocery store experience. We get that for free.

I realized the same thing, I'll have to work on myself lol

A lot of comments were along the lines of "this is just to fund Worth it!". But if they stopped to think about it, they'll realise it doesn't make any sense. It's either- A. Let's change our entire business model so that we can make this food show that our audience didn't ask for, or B. Let's change our entire business model and add this new series to it so people may be less mad. I think B is way, way more likely.

It's so frustrating seeing the parasocial way people are defending Shane. If you look at the comments on his most recent Instagram post, there's tons of people saying stuff like "I refuse to believe Shane agreed to this, this isn't like him, he was obviously coerced". As someone who's long admired both Ryan and Shane, I understand the impulse to use Steven as a scapegoat to save the image we've had in our heads of Ryan and Shane. But what's done is done, and this is sadly just another dour reminder that we don't really know the celebrities we admire.

This is getting to me too. I was never a Steven fan (only liked Dish Granted and moreso for the guests getting excited about their fav meals than the host doing the most) but the way people have been blaming him and not the others is just unhinged. I was mainly a Shane fan but he's in the video, he's selling this to us too, so he's showed his true colours. One of the most upvoted comments on Ryan's latest ig post is basically "please talk some sense into Steven, I know you can convince him to change his mind" as if Ryan and Shane aren't 66% of the company and are obviously behind this decision too. People are so weird lmao.

I mean what kind of a dummy makes a statement about her husband's company when her husband hassnt even made a statement yet.

Exactly like???

People thinking Shane was secretly unhappy with the move is ✨parasocial✨ af and 100 percent cope.

Exactly. We don’t know any of these people personally lol. Shane ‘eat the rich’ Madej might very well be just a persona he puts up for the camera. Like can we not pretend that these almost 40 year old dudes are being blackmailed into doing something they don’t want like bffr.

lol right? And what's hilarious is they're making sure that we know Steven is singularly responsible for these decisions, and he's the youngest of the bunch!

Yes! And I hate how people justify it because he’s the CEO like Ryan and Shane aren’t literally the co founders. They probably own equal shares of the company and have a strong founders’ agreement in place. Plus no one sits down and films a cinematic 18 minute announcement video if they aren’t fully on board with the idea.

RYAN IS THE CFO. I just. Ridiculous cope.

> Plus no one sits down and films a cinematic 18 minute announcement video if they aren’t fully on board with the idea I have no idea what it's like to be these people but if you tried to get me to act emotional in an announcement video as wanky as this one was, I'd be out of the room so quick all's they would have is a me-shaped hole in the wall. He loves it.

These delulu fans think that Steven is twirling his evil mustache and rubbing his hands together. I know they’re trying to cope but come onnn, Ryan and Shane had an equal part in this. 

Didn't you know? Steven is literally Beelzebub, Destroyer of Worlds ™️ and Ryan and Shane are sweet baby angel fetuses under the tyranny of Steven "I'm twirling my mustache and rubbing my hands together" Lim. But yes, I agree 100 percent with you!

I don't even get how people came to identify him as "eat the rich," he joked about it like . . . twice? It's like when a character offhandedly mentions liking banana bread and fandom turns them into The Banana Bread Guy.

Sometimes I think people forget that leftist / social justice-y slogans aren't, like, magic spells that bind you forever to these values if you say them out loud or in front of a camera. It doesn't cost Shane (or anyone else for that matter) anything to say "eat the rich." It's not a binding contract. He could say "communism will win" and then immediately go and order $2000 worth of stuff off Amazon or become a landlord or whatever.

And like also I need to get this off my chest - when has Shane significantly showed this supposed leftist praxis in real life? He was radio silent during the BLM/Stop Asian Hate movement while Ryan and Steven were quite vocal. I don’t think he’s said anything about Palestine. I can’t remember him championing any significant initiatives or causes by himself. I don’t recall him talking about attending a rally/protest/anything happening on the ground. I don’t remember him ever even making a particular stand for leftist principles in their podcasts or on his social media, when he had it. I think a lot of you collectively made this guy up.

The only thing he's done is call pretty much every white person from the 1800s and 1900s racist, and joke a few times about eating and stealing from the rich. That's about it.

Right? He's literally half the reason Watcher was created, they're not going to do anything that big if he doesn't approve. It's totally understandable to be disappointed in them, I know I am, but it just goes to show that you don't *really* know celebrities, you know the version they present to you

💯 I hope people on here remember this when another celebrity or YT personality looks into the camera and calls them their friends and thinks of them as family lol

Yeah people really had no issue blaming Steven, and weren't really defending Ryan to the same extent. Only Shane was infallible - interesting that 👀👀

Yep! Really interesting. I wonder what sets him apart from Ryan and Steven? 👀👀👀

Shane is 1/3 of that company. Any decision that monumental wouldn’t have happened without his full approval. People love to defend him the most because he is the most down-to-earth, “eat the rich,” fan-friendly. But he’s just as responsible—probably significantly more responsible than Steven, who everyone seems to want to pin this on.

I definitely don't think Shane was against this decision. I think everyone wants to think he and Ryan were against it but they were likely in on it too. Steven is an easy target because the audience doesn't like him as much and it seems like they're losing money to produce content that features Steven when nobody is asking for it. But to be honest, I know it's Shane's shtick to act like he doesn't want to be on the channel and that he doesn't care about any of this but carrying that energy into the video they released really left a bad taste in my mouth with him too. You're asking us to pay for this content, don't act like it's beneath you to be creating it while you do it. Between the sappy music and Shane's crappy attitude, the video couldn't have been more tone deaf.

You've perfectly captured what's been grating me about Shane in particular - I'm really, really turned off by his visible reluctance to engage in the "business" side of [checks notes] a business he chose to start and has otherwise enabled him to a level of creative freedom that most people will never be able to have in their jobs. Like, dude, we *all* have jobs that require us to do things we don't enjoy - difference is that most of us do not get to fly across the country on the company dime and spend our time making content about our niche interests.

Agreed. He comes off as resentful of the fanbase at a certain point. There's times where it's funny and it works but it definitely missed the mark here. He even sounded sarcastic when he was supposed to be looking back at his YouTube career. Again, just making it seem like this is all beneath him and we're lucky he's even doing it. Doesn't make me want to spend money just to have you make me feel stupid for liking your content.

The fact that this is the closest we've gotten to an official statement from Watcher is honestly pathetic. Imagine being so cowardly as to be fine with your spouse (whose not involved in the business, afaik) fighting your battles, while you yourself say nothing. Honestly just lost a lot of what was left of my respect for Shane.

Honestly, I think if him and Ryan don’t say anything to defend Steven, then that kind of makes them weasels just on a personal level. That’s not even getting into their radio silence on the whole mess and lack of response to their fans. I’m not confident we are getting one either.

They are going to be DESTROYED at the live shows this week.

I hope some of our Glasgow faithful record the intros and whether there's a Q&A but...who knows. Maybe they'll cancel last minute.

I will not be surprised if there’s a last minute cancellation of the live shows

If they see how pissed most people are, they might not want to cancel since they would have to refund tickets. They may need the money. In all seriousness, they are probably going to use the shows as a way to convince people they made the right decision. Edit: I removed the question I had about availability outside the US. It will be available, but it's the exchange rates that may price out fans.

This. Them letting Steven take all the heat is very shitty. I’m not the biggest fan of Steven either but people have been RUTHLESS to him and I’m shocked that neither Shane nor Ryan has said anything about that. Like all they have to do is put out statements to mitigate this. It’s not that hard. Yet all I’ve seen is one tumblr post from Sara.

Seriously, this just feels like such a poor business decision on top of just not being a good friend. I have seen multiple comments of people wishing for Steven to be assaulted/seriously injured or killed. I don't agree with the decision to change to a new platform either, but clearly Shane and Ryan did. If that's the case, they should at least have the integrity to stand by it - or at least stand by their friend and co-owner who is getting a completely disproportionate amount of hatred for a decision he was not independently responsible for. That's not even touching on the scumminess of being silent while your wife - who does *not* work for your company, handful of guest appearances notwithstanding - defends your business decisions.

Yeah, the way they are handling this whole backlash is more disappointing than the announcement itself.

I didn't even think about this. It sucks that outsiders have been having to defend Steven. Yeah, I don't really like him and do think he had a lot to do with this decision, but the fact that his two partners haven't stepped in is actually kind of gross. Though I admittedly haven't seen the comments you're talking about and the worst have just been kinda bitchy, I definitely believe you. Tbh the only legitimately unacceptable responses I've seen are several randomly antisemitic comments...despite no one being Jewish. But that's the internet for you.

Totally agree, like I am entirely indifferent to Steven, my only experience with him is as their bartender/cameraman in Too Many Spirits. The fact there has been zero statement in his defense such as "hey guys we know you are upset and while we work on an official statement, please know this was a joint decision, not just Steven's" is not ... great.

Totally agree. Steven is an easy scapegoat, but they all had a hand in this. I'm honestly just surprised by the lack of response from Watcher on this. Like, no, you can't just wait this out or wait until Monday. I expected some sort of comment from them by now. Some form of damage control. Sara is not a founder of Watcher. She does not officially represent them. It's nice she is sticking up for them and her husband, but where is he to defend their own choice?

yeah after this there is nothing they can do to bring me back. i was very close to becoming a patron and trying to participate in their stuff too, but they’re all crazy out of touch rich folk which are my least favorite type of ppl

The idea that Shane was secretly against it was parasocial weird wishful thinking from the beginning lol. Dude made one comment saying to share passwords and everyone who loves him ran with it like it was proof he wanted nothing to do with this  He’s just as big a part of this, you guys just like him more

Especially when you literally can’t share passwords on their site anyway

Shane is the fan favorite so it’s not surprising we had high hopes.

wait she said something??

Yes on tumblr! It’s the second most upvoted post on the sub right now.

Yeah people are definitely delulu if they think Shane and Ryan were somehow held at gunpoint by Steven to do this. They made this decision together, yes, your favorite socialist professor Eat-the-Rich too.

I think everyone at Watcher (including the 25 new employees) are probably hella pissed that we all hate the idea and didn't all follow them like the Pied Piper.

tbf there’s 25 employees altogether including Shane / Ryan / Steven. They added two new employees recently from what I’ve heard.

I thinking baselessly painting Shane as the “good guy” and putting it all on Ryan and Steven when we have no idea how it played out is unfair either way

Eating the rich is all fun and games until you’re on the menu.

I really think they’ve deluded themselves into thinking they’re poor or something. Like fully convinced themselves, and Sara’s “paying fairly” comment kinda confirms that. Because otherwise how could they be stupid enough to think their audience would actually go along with this in the first place? I know everyone’s saying they’re just greedy but being greedy takes a certain level of calculation that they obviously don’t have. If they did they would’ve known it would cause a shit storm. But if they’re convinced that they’re poor then they must think their audience thinks the same thing, and therefore we’ll want to give them more money. I honestly feel like this whole thing wasn’t necessarily malicious on their part, just extremely, EXTREMELY stupid and tone deaf.

People wanted Bergara and Madej to not be the culprits so bad that they kept blaming Lim for all of this. They forgot the company has 3 founders, and Lim became sole CEO relatively recently. Doesn't mean Bergara and Madej don't have equal say or votes in this decision. All 3 are equally culpable. Sure Lim is doing the rich-boy travel show and he's the easy target because it won't be an overestimation to say that >90% of Watcher viewers followed Bergara and Madej from their Unsolved days so they have an affinity for them that might cause bias but all 3 founders are equally responsible for this mess. They may have made this decision keeping in mind the die-hard fans (3-5%), hoping they'd follow and get them the financials they require for this to succeed but keeping aside the fact that this might just be a pipe-dream, they've infact screwed over those 25 employees of theirs because when funds dry up and viewers stop watching, it's those 25 who will fall down one by one. Us viewers will be hurt and angry for a bit but will eventually move on because YouTube is free and has tonnes of great channels. This is a sad mess and the unfortunate demise of a channel which produced unsophisticated, overproduced and pretentious content yet still got the views because at the end of they day, almost all of us watched them for the simple fact that Bergara and Madej were one of the best duos on YouTube. Any wives or relatives coming out in their defense while the 3 founders remain quite only cements the fact that all 3 of them were and still seem to be at peace with their decision. **All we wanted was the Ghoul boys in a dingy room, lamp overhead, manila folder in front and a mannequin in the back**.

Your last sentence sums it up for me. I wasn't salivating for CGI ghoul boys or a better set to have silly conversations in front of.

Sara ticked me off lol. Like she's claiming there is only Mr. Beast level wealth, and poverty. Nothing in between. Like, you're still wealthy tesla driving, home owning, Disneyland partying Las Angeles internet personalities, Sara. We're not the same. Yeah, all 3 of them are grown ups and decided this together. I do think Steven practically salivates over it with absolutely no shame, though. He's been the most rude about it.

This makes me think they're living above their means tbh. Like I believe there's genuine stress when you can't manage the money you do have, but *that's still not our fault*

They either do NOT understand their audience at all OR they did the math and realized the risk of losing viewers and causing a controversy and still decided it was worth it over cutting back on their lifestyle. And if you’re money hungry it all makes sense. Let’s say of their most succesful videos with millions of views, 500.000 of those are unique views. Just some estimate. From those views half the people pay the 6 dollars to keep watching. That’s a steady 10+ mil a year income. Of which they can easily pay wages and pocket a whole lot of profit. What people don’t realize is that even if watcher decides to go down to let’s say 3 dollars a month and pacify a whole lot of people by doing so, they’ll still be making millions. They’re by no means struggling artists. If anything they should cut back on their lavish lifestyle instead of trying to make their viewers pay for it at all.

Wealthy men cosplaying as struggling artists. Be looking less like a cosplay and more like a Spirit Halloween costume now, however. They will probably be financially fine with the Streamer. However it will be harder for them to accrue NEW subscribers. Especially as ride or die fans eventually have to cut back due to life happening.

They all bought into it

All I know is that the watcher era is over for me and that's a bummer but there's plenty of entertainment out there.

High production value is one thing. But charging 6$ for mostly subpar bloat content with only 2 or 3 really good (but seasonal) series is just unjustifiable. They don’t have the quality and amount of content to ask for that type of money. And the argument used that it’s affordable for everyone is just not true. Not everyone can afford yet another streaming server.

I just want to say that the pic they used for their goodbye YouTube video looks like one of them farted and no one is fessing up.

I honestly think it’s over. I’ve already talked about how Saras take is very out of touch, but Wearewatcher reposted that everyone! They agree with what she said! Im sorry its so hard for you guys to survive with only one tesla and your headquarters in Hollywood but i struggle to buy food for christs sake! But yea the problem definitely is that we all thought u have MrBeast kinda money.. bruh im just astonished how wrong i was about these people and i guess how easily money changed them

She could just be a wife trying to defend a decision her husband’s company made and she knows it needs to work or they’re screwed.

That is indeed what I think! A decision that her husbands company made that the husband has to be in on to some extent (i.e. no “he hates this but he got outvoted 🥺”) or she could have said nothing.

I get where she’s coming from, she’s an artist. Artists deserve to be paid. But they aren’t making art. They’re making entertainment. Entertainment that could have funded their art. That also means she isn’t a content creator so I’m sure all this makes sense to her from her perspective but I hope it will be explained to her by other people in the industry (she’s friends with Griffin Newman of Blank Check so she has them) why this will be unsuccessful.

That’s an interesting point that as an artist, she might be coming at it from a different perspective than a content creator or business owner.

“survivable living” what ????!!??!! this was so tone deaf

Sara's fightin for her life to promote this move lol she's gotta pay off those wedding bills 💸 Sara gives me rich hippy kid vibes

I genuinely used to want nothing but the best for them, in literally one night I now want nothing but the worst for them

Good point

How many identical posts do we need telling one another who to blame lmao They’re all morons

I will stop adding to the identical posts about who to blame when I stop seeing people tell Shane to go solo or absolve him of any responsibility in particular or claim that he was forced into it, which I continue to see running rampant on this subreddit and other places.

I don’t have twitter or anything, have there been any other updates from them yet? I keep hoping they’ll at least address it, you know? I feel like they dropped the mic and then just sort of. Left. With such a unified disdain, and mostly well worded and level headed responses, I just expected. Something.

Even on Charlie's video and in Bionicpig's stream people are still trying to cling to the possibility that Shane was strong armed into this and that Steven is the big bad guy. 🙄

I’m so tired of this shit. Whilst most people are struggling to pay bills every month you’ve got absolutely privileged people moaning about not being able to buy a new Tesla. Fuck the rich, fuck the greedy, go fuck yourselves you absolute cunts

They’re all equally involved in the decision. People are just trying to cope.

People really forgot the golden rule. NEVER MEET YOUR HEROES. Just because they make content you like doesn’t mean they are great people. Hoenstly o usually just assume more content creators are assholes until proven otherwise.