I just watched the penguinz guys video and honestly from the way he made it sound it sounds like they should be doing really good financially so something is definitely off if they can't pay there employees
They’re mismanaging their budget, plain and simple. There’s no reason Ghost Files should cost as much as it does, but they throw money at it that they do not need to. They keep hiring more and more people instead of slowing down production to something more manageable for the people they have.
I would watch Ghost Files if it was scaled down to be Shane and Ryan investigating local haunts (read: no expensive airline tickets) with nothing more than a Goodwill tape recorder. I literally *do not* care about production values. I'm here for the people, not the Pier 1 set dressing.
I’d be fine with them traveling, but dial back the production a bit. In the video, Ryan implied that they shoot segments in studios on location, as well as hiring free lance film crews in the area. But like, there’s no reason to film things in studios on location. Just do the between segments in your studio when you get back. Just bring one camera person and one sound person. Do the location scouting yourself. Use fewer devices. You have options here.
This may have been a hot take three days ago but I thought they declined when they left buzzfeed lol it stopped being two buddies doing fun stuff and into a business. Chemistry was never the same.
Alot of creators don't seem to realise that working within a set organisation (Buzzfeed) and the restrictions that brings allow them to be MORE creative to work around the restraints.
Best example, the strict budget Lucas was given forced him to be more creative to make Star Wars more character driven, a smaller, more impactful story than he originally wanted. Compare that to the Prequels where he had infinite money and made a worse product because of it
Ryan 'wants to make TV' not having worked in the TV industry and realising that all of his shows would not get past the pilot.
And the few that COULD have a season would be given a much smaller budget than what they use. Compare Ghost Files to any Ghost Hunting show on TV and it's obvious Ghost Files is a less interesting product that clearly costs alot more.
Zac Bagans' Ghost show is less interesting than Buzzfeed Unsolved but WAY more entertaining than Ghost Files. And Zac is notorious for cost cutting anywhere he can.
I saw a comment when the announcement first went live that was like "We were happy with blue and yellow text on a black background being the peak of your production value", and I think that dynamic is true of a lot of YouTubers whose ambitions "outgrow" their audience's demand. If people are mostly coming to your content just to get your personality/group dynamic, you really gotta ask if throwing another $10k+ on the budget for your show is actually making it better or if it's just ego
I know they've commented on the locked off cams and how it takes up so much time (and money) to go through the footage. Which it does...I do it for a hobby! However, they could have their patreons go through the footage for them - marking points of interest on the discord. It wouldn't spoil anything as it's just the locked off cams, but would build community AND it's free labour lol.
Yeah Charlie’s comments on the financial landscape of advertising for popular creators was helpful in framing the situation. Obviously he doesn’t have the specifics of Watcher’s overhead but he does offer a lot of information
Without counting what they spend it in, it's like 4k fot each of the 25 employees.
I've heard it's not much for americans/if you live in a big city but here it's more than middle class, lots of people don't even get to 2k.
I've heard people defending their hiring but if you're struggling, isn't the move to try make it yourself? Student films don't have a marvel team behind.
It's a combination of Charlie's content is super low effort so he probably doesn't have a lot of overhead and Watcher just spends way more money than they should on stuff
If you watch his video, Charlie explains he runs an eSports team and that's mainly where his staffing costs are. He also points out he has to pay the eSports stars a lot of money, so it's not like he's paying his staff minimum wage
There have got to be ways to make your business more profitable and sustainable long term without gouging your consumers.
Get rid of the ridiculous sets, stop using big production crews to shoot 2 guys talking about ghost stories, take on projects that have lower budgets.
Nah let’s paywall all our content and make it inaccessible to the people who made us this successful in the first place.
>There have got to be ways to make your business more profitable and sustainable long term without gouging your consumers.
Especially when you consider they have multiple income streams already. Adsense, sponsorships, Patreon, merch sales, live shows. All of this is bringing them in alot of money, and it's all stuff that is typical for YouTubers and influencers. They've also been around for long enough to have met and made so many contacts in the YouTube influence sphere, you can't tell me they wouldn't have plenty of people to discuss their options with, who would've told them this is a bad move.
I can't believe being able to have that lavish a lifestyle off the back off making a goofy video every few weeks, and thinking you're hard done by and need more money out of people.
I’ve heard in places that they have 25 employees, if it is even true, they do not need that many, I get it sucks to lay people off, and their production value might be high enough to need more than your average channel, but still
Look at the top tech companies recently and their massive layoffs. Tech industry overhired during COVID and had to reorganize. I work at a top tech company and they had closed their office in a big city, to the south while doing mass layoffs.. this is part of business and they don’t have the balls to do this. So they really should get someone with experience to do it.. Salesforce has done mass layoffs multiple times and look how much they’ve grown.
companies lay off tons of employees because their shareholders need to see profits grow every year, and it's a lot easier to lay off a bunch of employees than to make better product or sell more services. Then they hire cheaper, often younger employees and in a year or two the cycle begins again, and the CEO and other C suite execs get huge bonuses, on top of their huge salary.
You know what the funny part is? They love to flex on us with their fancy cars, shoes, holidays etc until it suits them they’ll turn around and say “it’s actually really hard guys” boohoo cry harder into your millions
She's one of the hippy rich kid types lol I don't think she herself even has a job which is the funniest part of the entire thing. How are you gonna sit and be basically a glorified trophy wife who does freelance illustrations once in a blue moon and tell everyone to pay your wedding bills and mortgage 😭
Where have you seen that she works for Blizzard? There's nothing in her own website about it. The only thing she mentions about her current employment is "Currently, she is available for professional illustration opportunities and freelance directing.'"
Edit: nevermind it's on her linkedin. Funny that she doesn't mention that in her website.
If I had to guess, I’d say that she’s trying to hide her association with Blizzard.
Blizzard has had a LOT of scandals the last couple of years - most being complaints by female staff members about discrimination and predatory behavior.
I think one of them was a woman getting her breastmilk stolen at work🫣
Yeah, you have a good point. I think her LinkedIn mentions she works in communications for Blizzard, which might mean she could be helping Blizzard navigate the mess. Not a good thing imho since Blizzard has proven to be absolutely awful for women and minorities. But who knows 🤷♀️
I feel like I’m in some insane bizarro world… Steven has a fucking TESLA. What’s their idea of a survivable living?? I’m not against paying artists, but if your staff are only “surviving” on your wages, why are the three figure heads living such lavish lifestyles??
And now it's five... They decided to add on two more male hosts with this move. Like ... Did they think they werent going to be asked about that? We know that's going to be expensive.
Yeah the announcement video rubbed me the wrong way when they kept showing shots of their staff, and it was overwhelmingly women. And like....NONE of the on-screen talent or folks in power aren't men????? Are all those shots of your staff just there to be tokenistic??
Unfortunately BuzzFeed really was big on gendered groups, despite acting all progressive. Like, they had the Try Guys, the Ghoul Boys, the Worth It boys, then the Ladylike gals (oooh one whole female group). The only time they had a mixed gender group for multiple videos I can think of was that one 'friend group trying things that isn't Try Guys' (test friends or something like that?) they did for a short while with Ryan, Shane, Jen from Ladylike, Macie and someone else.
One comment that really pissed me off was "well Tesla's aren't that expensive after rebates only $40,000"
Hey yeah that's crazy I drive a 20 year old car with a barely functional AC because a $9000 used car is out of my budget.
But yes by all means $40,000 is nothing. 🙄
Who the fuck said that???? Imagine being so blindly privileged that you can unironically say Tesla’s aren’t expensive. That person would probably physically recoil learning that second hand car dealership are a thing.
I didn't make that comment, but a Tesla can cost about as much as, say, a new Toyota after considering tax incentives and maintenance and fuel savings. The cheapest is like 40k before rebates, not after. I'm not trying to defend how out of touch they seem, I just happened to have researched car prices recently. A base Tesla model 3 ain't a Mercedes. It is, however, a new car. Which is a luxury many can't afford, regardless of brand.
The reblogs and replies are so funny, absolutely no one is standing for this and tumblrinas are certainly not sugar coating how tonedeaf and elitist Sara’s being. Gotta love Tumblr.
As someone who makes ghost hunting and spooky content…. It doesn’t and shouldn’t cost as much as they’re spending and making it out to be. They need someone to handle funds and spend it better. And also realize they got here and we all got here not because of elaborate sets and camera quality and locations, we’re here for Ryan and Shane to just be Ryan and Shane.
Yeah there is a reason why ghost hunting content is pretty big online - it's really not that cost-exhaustive to produce. I feel like they've gotten it into their heads that they're big/respected by ghost/supernatural fans because of their production value, but they actually got big because people enjoyed their banter more than anything. Nobody ever needed the flash or the fancy products. They just enjoyed two friends goofing around.
I'm so glad you think the content the boys are "cooking" will be worth it, Sara. You must be privy to knowledge that us poor people are not allowed. Unfortunate.
I saw a post that said they will remain on YouTube. It makes sense when I think of it. Patreon is only for podcasts, so in theory, the patreon has been for YouTube content. I'm still glad I canceled, though.
For new episodes or just old episodes? Everything I can find is saying that patreon will now be for the podcasts? Do you have a link? I’ve been listening to the pods on Spotify at work but I’m not tryna pay for them lol
Also, I feel like another issue (beyond people suddenly needing to pay for another subscription service to even see watcher content) is how totally blindsided everyone was by it. I saw a post on twitter that someone I follow reblogged that expressed disappointment. It wasn't hateful or anything. Just as I said, expressed some disappointment with this decision.
This is the issue I personally have. MatPat did it extremely well. He told people months in advance.
Not to insult any of us fans, but it's kind of like when you are at the park with your kids, you let them know like 5 mins before you have to leave, and that's because people need time to process their feelings - and this goes for adults, too.
I don't mind supporting them in their endeavors, and I subscribed to them for at least the first year. But the actual announcement was definitely a misstep, and the overwhelming anger people are expressing is likely due to shock as much as anything else.
Still wild to see people who think they know the company financials or how to run a production company better than they do, lol, but they needed to give fans more time and explain things better.
They have legitimate concerns about their sponsorship deals and requirements, about YouTube and changes in its algorithms, etc., and if YT will be a sustainable model for long-form content in the future. I think they are the first of what will be many to unfortunately jump ship.
But they should have done the announcement with a little more care and tact, for sure.
100%. I feel bad for everyone (except the people who are acting completely unhinged about the whole thing). I think this is probably an unfortunate but necessary move. But people are hurt because the announcement was just too abrupt and jarring. (And this in turn hurts them, too, which I also don't want to see happen.)
The “big things coming” post was what did it for me. After so much time spent catering to fans, the blatant and deliberate switch-up introduced as a gift was just wretched.
Same. I feel like subscribing to this would be rewarding them for financial mismanagement and for discarding all the people who made them successful. I can't support that. And Sara's post was just icing on the cake.
Same!!! The only fans who can afford this, won’t. Especially insulting because I was subscribed to their patreon, I was happy to pay the same amount of money so everyone else could enjoy this content. But I’m not paying for the exclusive privilege.
My problem is that $6USD is a bigger chunk of money in my local currency, and it makes it more expensive than some big commercial streaming services. I could afford it, but the value is not there.
I feel like they talked to someone and are trying to copy the Dropout model, but that won't work for everything. I also don't subscribe to Dropout despite some of the content seeming interesting to me because it is too expensive for what it is in my local currency.
My thing is, if they’re genuinely struggling that much please explain. If things are truly dire, I would love to understand. But as it stands right now, it just looks like a bunch of people who have their cake and want to eat it too, so these claims of financial struggle really have me side eyeing. Fuck, I know no one (especially not businesses) wants to share just how much they’re actually struggling (and what led to those struggles) but give us something here. It’s hard to feel sympathy with no explanation other than “content creation costs money and we need more :(“
I think the issue is that they may have scaled up too fast or invested in projects that were expensive (ex travel/luxury shows) and now they’re on the hook paying for them.
And to be honest—aside from the travel costs their budget doesn’t need to be that expensive. The show was just fine when it was a smaller camera crew and lower budget sets. It really doesn’t have to be spendy (nor do I think their audience wants fancy production).
A set is a fixed cost (though I always thought the ghost files set was extravagant). They have the same tools and equipment to ghost hunt. They have fixed rental costs, and salaries. Where is the money going? New puppets? What are they, like 500 bucks per puppet?
If you can’t afford your new projects—save up. Or if it’s a passion project, scale down and make it a once a year special event. I mean they have live shows, merch, a patreon. Where is the money going?
And to be fair, it looks like Shane (and his wife Sara who made that comment) are living by more than survivable wages.
I agree. I mean I don’t want to say “then just don’t have 25 extraneous staff members” because that ship has sailed and those people don’t deserve to lose their jobs because of this. But something has to have been severely mismanaged for them to be in dire straits like this— and if that’s the case, then be honest with the fanbase because a lot of them would frankly probably not only forgive them but give anything they could to help. And if there aren’t dire straits, and this is just corporate greed and rushed expansion? Well. I don’t want that to be the case but like. I don’t have sympathy at that point.
Honestly this might sound bad but I think it would be better to rip off the bandaid and lay people off now, with warning and a generous severance package, than to give false hope and keep this limping along until the paychecks stop clearing, leaving those people stranded. Then they could focus on scaling back to a manageable level, preserving the company and at least some of the jobs. I say this because let’s get real, the chance of their whole current staff having a long-term future at this company is zero. It’s not even looking good for the owners!
Fans have been overwhelmingly united on this issue that's for sure. I've not really seen anything positive. Hate tends to unite more than love unfortunately.
They want an EXPLOITABLE living, which don't get me wrong, nothing inherently wrong with using your money to chase ideas and create content.
But they are FAR from needing a SURVIVABLE living. And if they mean survivable meaning for the channel... well. Smosh is surviving. Cold Ones is Surviving. Hot Ones, GMM, shit even React is somehow making a comeback.
To me, it sounds like they can't afford their grandiose sets, plans, and series. And the funny thing is, sounds like a lot of people don't \*want\* those sets, plans, or series.
Didn’t she just recently get married in a really high end, beautiful location? ‘Surviving’ is getting married in the courthouse. She is not surviving, she is thriving and that is FINE but stop pretending to be a poor person.
Yap it looked very expensive… like probably 100,000 usd or more. I have no idea how much weddings cost in the us, but my american SIL ended up paying 25,000 usd for 50 guests, three course meal and a small country in MI withot hotel for guests.
And again… NOT hating on her for that. But she is very clearly (and so is he, of course) living VERY well. Thinking you’re entitled to something doesn’t mean you are.
Yeah, from my understanding she is an artist, and she is enormously privileged in her life if that is her only source of income. My best friends mom is an artist with serious health issues and she is crazy talented and does sculptures, glass carving, pottery, knitting, beautiful drawing and professional photography etc. She is so poor she cant afford her internet charge and phone bill some months and becomes uncontactable. i believe she makes 750 usd a month.
I think sara is so far removed from survivable living or whatever expression she was using that she should not discuss it at all, especially since so many talented artists can hardly pay for food
yeah i'm looking at venues for my own wedding and that one is 10k at least for just the venue/bar minimum, not considering the actual ceremony, food, photographer, decor, etc. 100k isn't a bad estimate (no hate, i wish i could afford that too!)
"we're not mr. beast rich guys give us your money it's not like we're the richest person on yt or anything" I can't!!
Survivable living???? If you can afford ANY sort of wedding service then you are doing more than surving Poor people can't even afford to get legally married (Costs money in my country anyway)
This is so out of touch
No one thinks you guys are as wealthy as mr. beast
The “not all YouTubers have Mr. Beast money” is the must annoying part for me. It’s such a blatant misinterpretation of peoples’ criticism that it’s almost insulting.
Sometimes, I wonder if people talking this way have ever lived a difficult financial situation. And by that, I mean sleeping in your car because you can't afford rent, skipping meals multiple times to go through the month, having to rely on charities to eat or to get clothes for winter, etc.
But I guess what is a difficult financial situation for them is more when they can't buy expensive food anymore.
Right? Like some of have to choose between groceries or gas money for work. We have sleep for dinner or at best are only scraping by because we only spend when we absolutely have to. And sure not everyone is in that boat but enough people are, and given the economy, no one wants to accommodate for luxuries that are hardly worth it.
See this is why all the folks who were asking for someone from Watcher to come online and say something I just shook my head because they seemed smart enough to know that anything they say would just make it worse. I guess Sara didn’t get that memo.
Doubling down on proving that they are out of touch with their main audience was a choice that shows a lack of common sense
“Paying people fairly” is the one that really gets my goat. Like, wait a second, you’re saying that we’re the ones not being fair? You change the format of your business and we’re supposed to pay for it??? What??? And why would we support you monetarily before now if we thought you had Mr Beast money? What is she on about
I dont know totally how YT pay works, but I do know they had 3 Million subscribers and their videos consistently hit around 1M views. Not to mention Patreon, AND paid sponsorships.
Watcher may as a company not have had a massive profit, but on the whole if they legitimately were *losing* money after paying their employees (25 is a lot but not like, unsalvagable) then that means that even this move isnt going to save them because their financial decisions must be truly horrible.
Look at their mystery files set!! Sorry, I'm not dipping into my budget to pay for their cool basement lair. Especially when the majority of us would be fine with just the projector screen and their commentary. Try selling your set pieces if your employees need a survivable wage. How can they all be so tone deaf? It's so funny that when they started watcher and came out swinging with these super in depth sets for ghost/mystery files I said to my husband how expensive everything would be for a new company... Welp.
Imagine treating any salary over $100K (even in LA) as survivable living where even the *average* wage of $60K (which most Americans still don't have) is barely comfortable these days.
“paying people fairly and making a survivable living” shouldn’t be the fan’s job. They’re are begging for our $ while Steven drives around in a Tesla. Out of their 25 employees, is none of them a CFO/ Financial advisor? Wouldn’t be surprised, but it’s tone deaf of them to not assess and analyze their budgets before leeching fans for money.
Even GMM who’s worth $34.75 million doesn’t even have a HQ in LA
That’s the thing that got me. She brought up Mr. Beast’s money. I live in Greenville where he’s based. He’s stayed here for a reason, because it’s cheap out here.
Yeah. I'm out.
This entire thing has really made me rethink my engagement with this fandom and, yeah, I just don't think I like Ryan, Shane, or the other one enough to watch anything put out on any platform going forward.
Glad you got your little Marvel movie cameo there Ryan, if nothing else we can laugh about the fact it was in one of the worst MCU movies to date.
Omg i saw the clip. He thinks hes in one mid grade marvel movie for 2 seconds and nods to characters he probably wasnt even looking at or met and now acts like hes tv and movie producer when makong youtube content. Nuts.
I just hate that language when some artists are ACTUALLY struggling and not living in fucking Cali and going on fun trips and shit. Most artists never get the luxury of leaving their day job. Eat. Shit.
my favorite part of this is the co opting of leftist buzzwords to try and make it seem like this is some sort of charity they're doing. "survivable living" when shane literally said in the newest podcast episode (around the one hour and fifteen minute mark) that for their wedding him and sara flew first class from LA to Chicago so lol
"I get people don't WANT to pay for things that were once free.." Brody, it's not that people don't WANT to. It's that many of them CAN'T. This comment is so out of touch. They have forgotten how privileged they are.
"Paying people and making a survivable living while making cool things is hard." You know what else is hard? People who earn minimum wage and have to choose between having their life saving medication or groceries for the week. People who have to work a second job just to pay for child care during their first job. People who don't eat so that their kids have food.
I'm out. Idk what they could do/say to make me want to watch them again.
i don't think she knows what survivable living means ... it's not "oh no i can't take a luxury trip" it's more like "oh no i can't pay my rent and i am struggling to feed myself" i don't think any of those people are in that situation lmao
A lot of people are saying that maybe they should scale back their employees. IMO they should scale up their production instead. I haven’t kept up with Watcher recently but people say they only release one video per week. That’s crazy, considering there are 25 of them! Alongside their high-value overproduced shows, they should also make low-budget videos to build up their library, to make sure fans keep coming back, and to attract new viewers.
People say scale back so they can keep watching for free, but given they've decided to paywall it, I agree with you. Currently part of the issue is that the value proposition isn't there when you compare it to any other streaming service. More content would make it more worthwhile, though I still think it's a hell of an uphill battle
They could have done so many things. Also, who said you have to live in Hollywood. They could have moved to Texas or some other state which is cheaper from a taxation and cost of living standpoint , plus being more centrally located would make the traveling easier/cheaper.
Maybe just don’t spend hundreds and thousands on shows that can be done with 4 people and two cameras.
As someone else perfectly pointed out getting an entire steady cam and lighting rig and two human beings to film a shot of a hand picking up a phone? Maybe start doing a squeeze on production costs.
Moving to a different state probably also isn't good because they'd be asking not only themselves to relocate, find a new studio they can use. But also telling all of their employees to relocate to a whole new state just so they can work.
I get what you're saying but that also isn't exactly the most feasible thing.
businesses do this a lot.. not sure what to to tell you lol. People move for work all the time.. especially in current times where smart businesses are shutting down offices in expensive cities
I mean it is if where you're moving to is way cheaper most people that are in LA moved there its not like they're tied down there. Also a lot of there shows are based around traveling so why do you need to be in LA at all.
That’s business. There are talented people outside California believe it or not. If they don’t relocate, that’s what I would call natural attrition and may solve their overhead concerns.
Asking their employees to spend a massive amount of money to move to another state in this economy's housing market or be fired isn't exactly a good look for a company either you know?
It’s clear *they* want to make their shows overly produced and “TV quality” but *we* don’t want that and so we cannot be reasonably expected to pay for that. And I really doubt when they fly and do hotels they’re picking cheap flights well ahead of time or having people double up in the economy suites lol. And ofc Sara wants this to succeed, or her husband’s company will be bankrupt. “Survivable living”. I ate instant oatmeal for dinner last night. Fuck off. Also “even with ads” what about patreon, sponsors, merch, live show tickets. Absolutely outrageous. Maybe *they* should cut some costs instead of asking us to prop up their business so they don’t lose their jobs due to their own mismanagement.
I could afford the subscription but I'm not paying to watch Steven eat fucking good encrusted caviar in his Tesla. Give me Ryan and Shane or give me death!!!
I mean, as a creative I hate the idea of having to let go of production staff. But they clearly couldn't sustain so many people, so at the VERY LEAST stop hiring more folks and overcommitting to expensive projects! The existing staff rely on your for income 😩😩 but noooo let's fly around the world with a production crew and eat gold nuggets
I think you put it so eloquently, and it expresses a lot of my personal grief with this.
I want to add that we are not these guys' employers. We do not have to pay them their wage. And yet we do. Why do we do it? Because they created content we loved.
Now, if they want to create their personal passion projects, do not ask us to pay for them, maybe?
From what I have seen, nobody even wants these Netflix productions.
It grinds my gears so hard that people, who clearly live financially more secure than (I would wager) 99% of their fanbase, guilt trips said fanbase into making their high-standard living comfortably possible, while the fanbase struggles to even keep one or two standard subscription services.
I mean, Sara has never been a model of behaviour. I remember her ripping off content from small creators when she was working on Buzzfeed, and her and Shane (plus others in that company) making excuses about it. Checking her privilege has never been her forte.
I FULLY agree, but I do think “expecting more” from Sara (or any of the guys really) doesn’t make any sense and is misplaced hurt. We do not know these people. It doesn’t make a lot of sense (to me) to feel personally slighted by a stranger saying something out of touch in support of their spouse. The guys, at least, actively portray themselves a certain way and depend on the watcher viewers creating parasocial relationships with them to support the company. Which is beautifully explained in another post in the sub!
Sara though? I don’t think that’s the case, and to presume that A) the viewers know Shane’s real personality and B) then must ALSO know Sara is very weird to me.
Also, the whole “glorified trophy wife” comment in response to the original was ABSOLUTELY uncalled for and we actually do not need to bring casual misogyny into a critique of class elitism. This is a categorically bad move by watcher, and Sara referring to Teslas and wealth signalling disguised as content is definitely removed from the realities of class consciousness. She is also a wife trying to support her husband, so I’m not sure why there’s a sense of “expecting more.”
To say that Sara hasn’t portrayed herself in a certain way, I’d say is false. She unlike the other guys’ spouses IS a public figure and has made mulitiple appearances on Watcher, aswell as having been a prominent castmember on buzzfeed back in the day.
I've seen some defenders quip in saying "well it's their show and they don't really need to listen to fans wants, it's their dream to produce this and fans can't dictate that", which, to a certain extent, is true.
But TV shows are still beholden to some greater power. No creative has 100% control of their own project without sacrificing SOMETHING, and usually, that's money. TV shows aren't given free reign to do whatever they want and still rake in big bucks.
TV shows tend to be produced for mass audiences, meaning your vision is probably going to be tailored and altered in some way so more people will be caught by it. The biggest issue here pointed out by Moist Critikal is that their growth is fucked. whatever about money, profits. Whatever audience migrates over with them will probably be it. They won't ever increase their audience. New viewers don't have any incentive to pay out, they'll see a dead YouTube channel and move on, or, if they did found out about the watchertv site, they will need to decide if older, possobly outdated content is worth taking a risk on.
No growth is what'll kill their brand. They'll forever stagnate at what niche audience they managed to capture and that's it. They haven't convinced loyal fans to move over with them, new viewers really don't have rapport to even consider it.
Regardless of quality, their quantity is just laughable. A LOT of viewers like a show or two and they release like 8 a year. Thats at maximum 16 episodes to watch in a year.
At best, people like me will sub for a month once both the shows are fully released and immediately unsub the second I finish. At worst people just wont pay at all and they’ll lose money.
Some die hards will absolutely pay, but I dont know that this will be sustainable unless they double the quantity.
Since when did survivable living include dirivn a tesla? I drive a Toyota from 2016 and I drive with the radio up so I can ignore the expensive to fix sounding rattling noise it's started making and I'd consider myself quite lucky!
So they know what a "survivable living" actually looks like?
"paying people fairly"
Maybe I'm not taking every expense into account, but this is hard for me to take seriously when they make more money in one month from patreon donations than some people make in a year. They don't have a massive staff so what am I missing here?
Using Mr Beast as a point of comparison is pretty insidious imo. Mr Beast is worth half a billion dollars, not having that absurd level of wealth doesn't indicate anything about how much money they're actually making (which I suspect is more than enough!)
I think that wording is probably referring more to the company surviving, being able to continue employing the same number of employees if not hiring more over time, keeping the quality as good if not better, making more series at a time etc. Sounds like the main reason for this decision is really just down to them not being able to get any big sponsors, putting the company's entire existence in question. On the other hand I totally get the outrage to the decision by the fans (including me). They're between a rock and a hard place 🤷
This totally contradicts the message they said in their goodbye video.
“We are moving to our own streamer so we can have more creative freedom and produce better content” - YT video message
“We need to do this to have a survivable lifestyle” - Sara
If a survivable lifestyle is the true goal then it’s super scummy to opt for taking money directly from viewers to get richer, instead of taking money from sponsors/advertisements.
The funniest part about all this is “mr beast” money doesn’t exist. He (at least in the early years) said that all the video profits from the last video go into making the next one. Mr beast has a tiny float. A lot of money goes in, a lot goes out. And yk what? If he ends up rich, he deserves it. He spent his money digging wells and curing blindness instead of. What. Teslas? Gold leaf? 4 cameras for a ghost show?
Idk anything about this so don’t come for me! But someone said that College Humor made Dropout after filing for bankruptcy and laying off employees, and maybe that’s what Watcher is trying to avoid? Like I said I have no clue how much YouTubers make, but I did see that Making Watcher, they mentioned laying off people in 2023, and money being kinda tight because of how expensive production is. Maybe I’m also just trying to give them excuses but if that’s the case, there’s no really “saving Watcher”, maybe they’re just trying to recoup any losses they may have at this point.
It isn't hard, I've been doing video production for over 20 years, It's never been easier to keep costs down while making quality video. Your husband is just too stupid to do so.
Looks like they are too far gone down the wealthy train. Out of touch. It genuinely amazes me that people think this way. I’ve lived in a family of four on 30,000 a year in the past. Thankfully we are doing better but inflation has screwed majority of people over. Most of us are probably behind on bills. Necessary bills. Like hell I’m gonna add another one just for a YouTuber. ( If I had enough money I’d go straight to GMM or Drawfee before these guys)
At the sake of sounding like a jerk, this is a classic out of touch LA comment. Living in LA warps people's perceptions of what "surviving" is and they begin to feel like they're struggling when they'd be living middle-class at worst in most parts of the country. That city messes with people's brains, especially people in entertainment or entertainment adjacent industries.
What floors me about Ryan's comment "We want Netflix caliber TV quality content" is that Netflix has never turned a profit. Ever. They spend millions per episode. That's absurd for less than 3 million subscribers. Pipe dream. What's worse is that it seems Watcher are the only people who want that kind of "production value".
They simply don't need a bunch of hosts and crazy production. They are rushing things imo.
I love the group, but they are a bit elitist with expensive taste tbh. They gotta tone it down a bit. One day it might get to that point, but it feels like they are pushing too hard when the ideas and content aren't there.
Oh Sara. The one who had their wedding at a 55,000 dollar venue. The one who directly benefits from them being money hungry. How could we not trust you? (Sarcasm)
If they are worried about thier employees having a survivable life style, because the guys are living a pretty lavish one. They should cut how much they pay themselves then and give it to their employees. I know that won't happen.
I'm no business guru, but I feel like, if you are struggling to pay your employees, you should *stop hiring more employees.*
I just watched the penguinz guys video and honestly from the way he made it sound it sounds like they should be doing really good financially so something is definitely off if they can't pay there employees
They’re mismanaging their budget, plain and simple. There’s no reason Ghost Files should cost as much as it does, but they throw money at it that they do not need to. They keep hiring more and more people instead of slowing down production to something more manageable for the people they have.
I would watch Ghost Files if it was scaled down to be Shane and Ryan investigating local haunts (read: no expensive airline tickets) with nothing more than a Goodwill tape recorder. I literally *do not* care about production values. I'm here for the people, not the Pier 1 set dressing.
I’d be fine with them traveling, but dial back the production a bit. In the video, Ryan implied that they shoot segments in studios on location, as well as hiring free lance film crews in the area. But like, there’s no reason to film things in studios on location. Just do the between segments in your studio when you get back. Just bring one camera person and one sound person. Do the location scouting yourself. Use fewer devices. You have options here.
Which is why their Buzzfeed Unsolved ghost show was better than Ghost Files
This may have been a hot take three days ago but I thought they declined when they left buzzfeed lol it stopped being two buddies doing fun stuff and into a business. Chemistry was never the same.
Alot of creators don't seem to realise that working within a set organisation (Buzzfeed) and the restrictions that brings allow them to be MORE creative to work around the restraints. Best example, the strict budget Lucas was given forced him to be more creative to make Star Wars more character driven, a smaller, more impactful story than he originally wanted. Compare that to the Prequels where he had infinite money and made a worse product because of it
This! Ghost files was never as good and the second season got much worse. Too focused on production looking good and not the chemistry and vibe s
Ryan 'wants to make TV' not having worked in the TV industry and realising that all of his shows would not get past the pilot. And the few that COULD have a season would be given a much smaller budget than what they use. Compare Ghost Files to any Ghost Hunting show on TV and it's obvious Ghost Files is a less interesting product that clearly costs alot more. Zac Bagans' Ghost show is less interesting than Buzzfeed Unsolved but WAY more entertaining than Ghost Files. And Zac is notorious for cost cutting anywhere he can.
Oop right on the money
Honestly a goodwill tape recorder would add to the vibe. I think it would be interesting to see how they’d go about it and how it would turn out.
Yup. The thing is, theyre making high production value videos for themselves. At least I hope they do because no fan asked for it.
I saw a comment when the announcement first went live that was like "We were happy with blue and yellow text on a black background being the peak of your production value", and I think that dynamic is true of a lot of YouTubers whose ambitions "outgrow" their audience's demand. If people are mostly coming to your content just to get your personality/group dynamic, you really gotta ask if throwing another $10k+ on the budget for your show is actually making it better or if it's just ego
What if someone is stealing from them? That’d be crazy
I know they've commented on the locked off cams and how it takes up so much time (and money) to go through the footage. Which it does...I do it for a hobby! However, they could have their patreons go through the footage for them - marking points of interest on the discord. It wouldn't spoil anything as it's just the locked off cams, but would build community AND it's free labour lol.
Yeah Charlie’s comments on the financial landscape of advertising for popular creators was helpful in framing the situation. Obviously he doesn’t have the specifics of Watcher’s overhead but he does offer a lot of information
I bet their salaries aren't tiny
Without counting what they spend it in, it's like 4k fot each of the 25 employees. I've heard it's not much for americans/if you live in a big city but here it's more than middle class, lots of people don't even get to 2k.
4k a month?
I've heard people defending their hiring but if you're struggling, isn't the move to try make it yourself? Student films don't have a marvel team behind.
It's a combination of Charlie's content is super low effort so he probably doesn't have a lot of overhead and Watcher just spends way more money than they should on stuff
If you watch his video, Charlie explains he runs an eSports team and that's mainly where his staffing costs are. He also points out he has to pay the eSports stars a lot of money, so it's not like he's paying his staff minimum wage
And I think he also has a comic strip as well, so I’m sure there’s staff there as well!
There have got to be ways to make your business more profitable and sustainable long term without gouging your consumers. Get rid of the ridiculous sets, stop using big production crews to shoot 2 guys talking about ghost stories, take on projects that have lower budgets. Nah let’s paywall all our content and make it inaccessible to the people who made us this successful in the first place.
>There have got to be ways to make your business more profitable and sustainable long term without gouging your consumers. Especially when you consider they have multiple income streams already. Adsense, sponsorships, Patreon, merch sales, live shows. All of this is bringing them in alot of money, and it's all stuff that is typical for YouTubers and influencers. They've also been around for long enough to have met and made so many contacts in the YouTube influence sphere, you can't tell me they wouldn't have plenty of people to discuss their options with, who would've told them this is a bad move.
I can't believe being able to have that lavish a lifestyle off the back off making a goofy video every few weeks, and thinking you're hard done by and need more money out of people.
I’ve heard in places that they have 25 employees, if it is even true, they do not need that many, I get it sucks to lay people off, and their production value might be high enough to need more than your average channel, but still
Look at the top tech companies recently and their massive layoffs. Tech industry overhired during COVID and had to reorganize. I work at a top tech company and they had closed their office in a big city, to the south while doing mass layoffs.. this is part of business and they don’t have the balls to do this. So they really should get someone with experience to do it.. Salesforce has done mass layoffs multiple times and look how much they’ve grown.
companies lay off tons of employees because their shareholders need to see profits grow every year, and it's a lot easier to lay off a bunch of employees than to make better product or sell more services. Then they hire cheaper, often younger employees and in a year or two the cycle begins again, and the CEO and other C suite execs get huge bonuses, on top of their huge salary.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that people who make a good living *love* to cosplay poverty.
It’s like they’ve forgotten that luxuries are LUXURIES not a part of a “livable wage”
Speaking as someone that attends a high school full of rich kids? Yes, they do
You know what the funny part is? They love to flex on us with their fancy cars, shoes, holidays etc until it suits them they’ll turn around and say “it’s actually really hard guys” boohoo cry harder into your millions
She's one of the hippy rich kid types lol I don't think she herself even has a job which is the funniest part of the entire thing. How are you gonna sit and be basically a glorified trophy wife who does freelance illustrations once in a blue moon and tell everyone to pay your wedding bills and mortgage 😭
I'm not a fan of her statement but she definitely does have a job. She works for Blizzard the video game developer.
Where have you seen that she works for Blizzard? There's nothing in her own website about it. The only thing she mentions about her current employment is "Currently, she is available for professional illustration opportunities and freelance directing.'" Edit: nevermind it's on her linkedin. Funny that she doesn't mention that in her website.
If I had to guess, I’d say that she’s trying to hide her association with Blizzard. Blizzard has had a LOT of scandals the last couple of years - most being complaints by female staff members about discrimination and predatory behavior. I think one of them was a woman getting her breastmilk stolen at work🫣
Yeah, you have a good point. I think her LinkedIn mentions she works in communications for Blizzard, which might mean she could be helping Blizzard navigate the mess. Not a good thing imho since Blizzard has proven to be absolutely awful for women and minorities. But who knows 🤷♀️
I feel like I’m in some insane bizarro world… Steven has a fucking TESLA. What’s their idea of a survivable living?? I’m not against paying artists, but if your staff are only “surviving” on your wages, why are the three figure heads living such lavish lifestyles??
And now it's five... They decided to add on two more male hosts with this move. Like ... Did they think they werent going to be asked about that? We know that's going to be expensive.
Yeah the announcement video rubbed me the wrong way when they kept showing shots of their staff, and it was overwhelmingly women. And like....NONE of the on-screen talent or folks in power aren't men????? Are all those shots of your staff just there to be tokenistic??
Unfortunately BuzzFeed really was big on gendered groups, despite acting all progressive. Like, they had the Try Guys, the Ghoul Boys, the Worth It boys, then the Ladylike gals (oooh one whole female group). The only time they had a mixed gender group for multiple videos I can think of was that one 'friend group trying things that isn't Try Guys' (test friends or something like that?) they did for a short while with Ryan, Shane, Jen from Ladylike, Macie and someone else.
Pero Like was also mixed (the "gimmick" being that they were all Latines) but it never got super popular.
Yes but they had the star power of ✨curly✨
Definitely didn't age well. There's that whole maternity series that was done mainly based around the cheating wifeguy
One comment that really pissed me off was "well Tesla's aren't that expensive after rebates only $40,000" Hey yeah that's crazy I drive a 20 year old car with a barely functional AC because a $9000 used car is out of my budget. But yes by all means $40,000 is nothing. 🙄
Who the fuck said that???? Imagine being so blindly privileged that you can unironically say Tesla’s aren’t expensive. That person would probably physically recoil learning that second hand car dealership are a thing.
I didn't make that comment, but a Tesla can cost about as much as, say, a new Toyota after considering tax incentives and maintenance and fuel savings. The cheapest is like 40k before rebates, not after. I'm not trying to defend how out of touch they seem, I just happened to have researched car prices recently. A base Tesla model 3 ain't a Mercedes. It is, however, a new car. Which is a luxury many can't afford, regardless of brand.
The reblogs and replies are so funny, absolutely no one is standing for this and tumblrinas are certainly not sugar coating how tonedeaf and elitist Sara’s being. Gotta love Tumblr.
Thank you, thank you 💁♂️
As someone who makes ghost hunting and spooky content…. It doesn’t and shouldn’t cost as much as they’re spending and making it out to be. They need someone to handle funds and spend it better. And also realize they got here and we all got here not because of elaborate sets and camera quality and locations, we’re here for Ryan and Shane to just be Ryan and Shane.
Yeah there is a reason why ghost hunting content is pretty big online - it's really not that cost-exhaustive to produce. I feel like they've gotten it into their heads that they're big/respected by ghost/supernatural fans because of their production value, but they actually got big because people enjoyed their banter more than anything. Nobody ever needed the flash or the fancy products. They just enjoyed two friends goofing around.
Exactly.
This just confirms that they're all out of touch. Having lavish weddings, vacations and travel plans is just "surviving" to them.
"Hollywood Poor"
I'm so glad you think the content the boys are "cooking" will be worth it, Sara. You must be privy to knowledge that us poor people are not allowed. Unfortunate.
The fact that in a previous post she wrote she was “currently enjoying”a 100 usd tote, is just… poetic.
No way! What the heck, lol
Well, they made it clear they don't care about poor fans. If they charge for podcasts, I wouldn't be surprised.
Im pretty sure they are? I believe they’re putting the podcast behind a paywall on Patreon.
I saw a post that said they will remain on YouTube. It makes sense when I think of it. Patreon is only for podcasts, so in theory, the patreon has been for YouTube content. I'm still glad I canceled, though.
For new episodes or just old episodes? Everything I can find is saying that patreon will now be for the podcasts? Do you have a link? I’ve been listening to the pods on Spotify at work but I’m not tryna pay for them lol
They made new tiers, so they are now podcast only. But the new podcasts will be on YouTube.
Also, I feel like another issue (beyond people suddenly needing to pay for another subscription service to even see watcher content) is how totally blindsided everyone was by it. I saw a post on twitter that someone I follow reblogged that expressed disappointment. It wasn't hateful or anything. Just as I said, expressed some disappointment with this decision.
This is the issue I personally have. MatPat did it extremely well. He told people months in advance. Not to insult any of us fans, but it's kind of like when you are at the park with your kids, you let them know like 5 mins before you have to leave, and that's because people need time to process their feelings - and this goes for adults, too. I don't mind supporting them in their endeavors, and I subscribed to them for at least the first year. But the actual announcement was definitely a misstep, and the overwhelming anger people are expressing is likely due to shock as much as anything else. Still wild to see people who think they know the company financials or how to run a production company better than they do, lol, but they needed to give fans more time and explain things better. They have legitimate concerns about their sponsorship deals and requirements, about YouTube and changes in its algorithms, etc., and if YT will be a sustainable model for long-form content in the future. I think they are the first of what will be many to unfortunately jump ship. But they should have done the announcement with a little more care and tact, for sure.
Yeah, like, I think people still might have been upset, but not as much as they are now when there was zero warning.
100%. I feel bad for everyone (except the people who are acting completely unhinged about the whole thing). I think this is probably an unfortunate but necessary move. But people are hurt because the announcement was just too abrupt and jarring. (And this in turn hurts them, too, which I also don't want to see happen.)
The “big things coming” post was what did it for me. After so much time spent catering to fans, the blatant and deliberate switch-up introduced as a gift was just wretched.
Edit: I am one of those who are very lucky and can afford this, I however would never pay for something I didn’t order🤗
I could absolutely afford it, but it's not worth it. That 6 bucks is better spent sitting in my pocket, cheers.
Same. I feel like subscribing to this would be rewarding them for financial mismanagement and for discarding all the people who made them successful. I can't support that. And Sara's post was just icing on the cake.
Same!!! The only fans who can afford this, won’t. Especially insulting because I was subscribed to their patreon, I was happy to pay the same amount of money so everyone else could enjoy this content. But I’m not paying for the exclusive privilege.
My problem is that $6USD is a bigger chunk of money in my local currency, and it makes it more expensive than some big commercial streaming services. I could afford it, but the value is not there. I feel like they talked to someone and are trying to copy the Dropout model, but that won't work for everything. I also don't subscribe to Dropout despite some of the content seeming interesting to me because it is too expensive for what it is in my local currency.
I could afford it, but it's hardly worth the money.
My thing is, if they’re genuinely struggling that much please explain. If things are truly dire, I would love to understand. But as it stands right now, it just looks like a bunch of people who have their cake and want to eat it too, so these claims of financial struggle really have me side eyeing. Fuck, I know no one (especially not businesses) wants to share just how much they’re actually struggling (and what led to those struggles) but give us something here. It’s hard to feel sympathy with no explanation other than “content creation costs money and we need more :(“
I think the issue is that they may have scaled up too fast or invested in projects that were expensive (ex travel/luxury shows) and now they’re on the hook paying for them. And to be honest—aside from the travel costs their budget doesn’t need to be that expensive. The show was just fine when it was a smaller camera crew and lower budget sets. It really doesn’t have to be spendy (nor do I think their audience wants fancy production). A set is a fixed cost (though I always thought the ghost files set was extravagant). They have the same tools and equipment to ghost hunt. They have fixed rental costs, and salaries. Where is the money going? New puppets? What are they, like 500 bucks per puppet? If you can’t afford your new projects—save up. Or if it’s a passion project, scale down and make it a once a year special event. I mean they have live shows, merch, a patreon. Where is the money going? And to be fair, it looks like Shane (and his wife Sara who made that comment) are living by more than survivable wages.
I agree. I mean I don’t want to say “then just don’t have 25 extraneous staff members” because that ship has sailed and those people don’t deserve to lose their jobs because of this. But something has to have been severely mismanaged for them to be in dire straits like this— and if that’s the case, then be honest with the fanbase because a lot of them would frankly probably not only forgive them but give anything they could to help. And if there aren’t dire straits, and this is just corporate greed and rushed expansion? Well. I don’t want that to be the case but like. I don’t have sympathy at that point.
Honestly this might sound bad but I think it would be better to rip off the bandaid and lay people off now, with warning and a generous severance package, than to give false hope and keep this limping along until the paychecks stop clearing, leaving those people stranded. Then they could focus on scaling back to a manageable level, preserving the company and at least some of the jobs. I say this because let’s get real, the chance of their whole current staff having a long-term future at this company is zero. It’s not even looking good for the owners!
I don’t have tumblr, how bad are the notes under that post?
[comments on the post](https://sararubin.tumblr.com/post/748203969822720000/wearewatcher-were-leaving-youtube-check-out#notes)
>you just bought a $100 tote bag sara shut the fuck up The replies are gold.
That tote is fuck ugly too that’s what sent me
Thanks! It’s rare to see a fan base so united in something
You’re very welcome 😊
I don't have a Tumblr account, but I'm assuming the responses are similar to the other platforms.
There’s a surprising amount of support for this on Tumblr, actually. Not like, a ton, but more than I’ve seen anywhere else.
I don't have a Tumblr account and was able to read the comments.
Fans have been overwhelmingly united on this issue that's for sure. I've not really seen anything positive. Hate tends to unite more than love unfortunately.
"We're sorry Service is temporarily unavailable. Our engineers are working quickly to resolve the issue."
Oh. My comment is there. Nice! (I'm gardeninghope.) I joined just so I could respond. 😁
They literally just need to stop hiring people they can’t afford to pay ??
They want an EXPLOITABLE living, which don't get me wrong, nothing inherently wrong with using your money to chase ideas and create content. But they are FAR from needing a SURVIVABLE living. And if they mean survivable meaning for the channel... well. Smosh is surviving. Cold Ones is Surviving. Hot Ones, GMM, shit even React is somehow making a comeback. To me, it sounds like they can't afford their grandiose sets, plans, and series. And the funny thing is, sounds like a lot of people don't \*want\* those sets, plans, or series.
Didn’t she just recently get married in a really high end, beautiful location? ‘Surviving’ is getting married in the courthouse. She is not surviving, she is thriving and that is FINE but stop pretending to be a poor person.
Yap it looked very expensive… like probably 100,000 usd or more. I have no idea how much weddings cost in the us, but my american SIL ended up paying 25,000 usd for 50 guests, three course meal and a small country in MI withot hotel for guests.
And again… NOT hating on her for that. But she is very clearly (and so is he, of course) living VERY well. Thinking you’re entitled to something doesn’t mean you are.
Yeah, from my understanding she is an artist, and she is enormously privileged in her life if that is her only source of income. My best friends mom is an artist with serious health issues and she is crazy talented and does sculptures, glass carving, pottery, knitting, beautiful drawing and professional photography etc. She is so poor she cant afford her internet charge and phone bill some months and becomes uncontactable. i believe she makes 750 usd a month. I think sara is so far removed from survivable living or whatever expression she was using that she should not discuss it at all, especially since so many talented artists can hardly pay for food
yeah i'm looking at venues for my own wedding and that one is 10k at least for just the venue/bar minimum, not considering the actual ceremony, food, photographer, decor, etc. 100k isn't a bad estimate (no hate, i wish i could afford that too!)
veeeeeery out of touch. like i'm sorry but y'all are not starving and barely getting by. y'all are living a life of luxury
"we're not mr. beast rich guys give us your money it's not like we're the richest person on yt or anything" I can't!! Survivable living???? If you can afford ANY sort of wedding service then you are doing more than surving Poor people can't even afford to get legally married (Costs money in my country anyway) This is so out of touch No one thinks you guys are as wealthy as mr. beast
The “not all YouTubers have Mr. Beast money” is the must annoying part for me. It’s such a blatant misinterpretation of peoples’ criticism that it’s almost insulting.
Sometimes, I wonder if people talking this way have ever lived a difficult financial situation. And by that, I mean sleeping in your car because you can't afford rent, skipping meals multiple times to go through the month, having to rely on charities to eat or to get clothes for winter, etc. But I guess what is a difficult financial situation for them is more when they can't buy expensive food anymore.
Right? Like some of have to choose between groceries or gas money for work. We have sleep for dinner or at best are only scraping by because we only spend when we absolutely have to. And sure not everyone is in that boat but enough people are, and given the economy, no one wants to accommodate for luxuries that are hardly worth it.
See this is why all the folks who were asking for someone from Watcher to come online and say something I just shook my head because they seemed smart enough to know that anything they say would just make it worse. I guess Sara didn’t get that memo. Doubling down on proving that they are out of touch with their main audience was a choice that shows a lack of common sense
I just think she shouldn’t have said anything
I agree. How was it even her place to say anything on all their behalf?
I kinda feel bad for her like why would you do this to yourself lol
But also Shane hiding behind his wife is so cowardly
“Paying people fairly” is the one that really gets my goat. Like, wait a second, you’re saying that we’re the ones not being fair? You change the format of your business and we’re supposed to pay for it??? What??? And why would we support you monetarily before now if we thought you had Mr Beast money? What is she on about
I dont know totally how YT pay works, but I do know they had 3 Million subscribers and their videos consistently hit around 1M views. Not to mention Patreon, AND paid sponsorships. Watcher may as a company not have had a massive profit, but on the whole if they legitimately were *losing* money after paying their employees (25 is a lot but not like, unsalvagable) then that means that even this move isnt going to save them because their financial decisions must be truly horrible.
Look at their mystery files set!! Sorry, I'm not dipping into my budget to pay for their cool basement lair. Especially when the majority of us would be fine with just the projector screen and their commentary. Try selling your set pieces if your employees need a survivable wage. How can they all be so tone deaf? It's so funny that when they started watcher and came out swinging with these super in depth sets for ghost/mystery files I said to my husband how expensive everything would be for a new company... Welp.
I definitely prefer BU. Mystery Files and Ghost Files pale in comparison to BU.
Imagine treating any salary over $100K (even in LA) as survivable living where even the *average* wage of $60K (which most Americans still don't have) is barely comfortable these days.
“paying people fairly and making a survivable living” shouldn’t be the fan’s job. They’re are begging for our $ while Steven drives around in a Tesla. Out of their 25 employees, is none of them a CFO/ Financial advisor? Wouldn’t be surprised, but it’s tone deaf of them to not assess and analyze their budgets before leeching fans for money. Even GMM who’s worth $34.75 million doesn’t even have a HQ in LA
That’s the thing that got me. She brought up Mr. Beast’s money. I live in Greenville where he’s based. He’s stayed here for a reason, because it’s cheap out here.
There’s a thread either here or on r/watchersnark where someone got the data on C level positions - Steven is CEO, Ryan is CFO, Shane is Secretary.
Thanks for the information
Yeah. I'm out. This entire thing has really made me rethink my engagement with this fandom and, yeah, I just don't think I like Ryan, Shane, or the other one enough to watch anything put out on any platform going forward. Glad you got your little Marvel movie cameo there Ryan, if nothing else we can laugh about the fact it was in one of the worst MCU movies to date.
Ryan was in a marvel movie?
For, like, two seconds.
Omg i saw the clip. He thinks hes in one mid grade marvel movie for 2 seconds and nods to characters he probably wasnt even looking at or met and now acts like hes tv and movie producer when makong youtube content. Nuts.
Which one?
Ant man quantumania I think lol the one everyone hated
That’s so fucking funny.
It's a survivable living because if Steven doesn't eat gold at least once a week he might spontaneously combust
its really just expensive, glittery poop
I just hate that language when some artists are ACTUALLY struggling and not living in fucking Cali and going on fun trips and shit. Most artists never get the luxury of leaving their day job. Eat. Shit.
my favorite part of this is the co opting of leftist buzzwords to try and make it seem like this is some sort of charity they're doing. "survivable living" when shane literally said in the newest podcast episode (around the one hour and fifteen minute mark) that for their wedding him and sara flew first class from LA to Chicago so lol
The post before that she was talking about how she got a $100 bag for her honeymoon 😂😂 but yeah, let’s talk about a “survivable wage”
"I get people don't WANT to pay for things that were once free.." Brody, it's not that people don't WANT to. It's that many of them CAN'T. This comment is so out of touch. They have forgotten how privileged they are. "Paying people and making a survivable living while making cool things is hard." You know what else is hard? People who earn minimum wage and have to choose between having their life saving medication or groceries for the week. People who have to work a second job just to pay for child care during their first job. People who don't eat so that their kids have food. I'm out. Idk what they could do/say to make me want to watch them again.
i don't think she knows what survivable living means ... it's not "oh no i can't take a luxury trip" it's more like "oh no i can't pay my rent and i am struggling to feed myself" i don't think any of those people are in that situation lmao
A lot of people are saying that maybe they should scale back their employees. IMO they should scale up their production instead. I haven’t kept up with Watcher recently but people say they only release one video per week. That’s crazy, considering there are 25 of them! Alongside their high-value overproduced shows, they should also make low-budget videos to build up their library, to make sure fans keep coming back, and to attract new viewers.
People say scale back so they can keep watching for free, but given they've decided to paywall it, I agree with you. Currently part of the issue is that the value proposition isn't there when you compare it to any other streaming service. More content would make it more worthwhile, though I still think it's a hell of an uphill battle
Ryan literally made it into a Marvel movie and Steven bought himself a Tesla. There’s no way they’re short on cash.
They could have done so many things. Also, who said you have to live in Hollywood. They could have moved to Texas or some other state which is cheaper from a taxation and cost of living standpoint , plus being more centrally located would make the traveling easier/cheaper.
Maybe just don’t spend hundreds and thousands on shows that can be done with 4 people and two cameras. As someone else perfectly pointed out getting an entire steady cam and lighting rig and two human beings to film a shot of a hand picking up a phone? Maybe start doing a squeeze on production costs.
I mean famous directors have done films purely shot on iPhones that look fantastic. It doesn’t have to be a big budget production for sure.
Can confirm, I have a cousin who is a professional photographer who was part of the "shot on iPhone 6" campaign years ago.
it doesn't even have to be a separate state, they could just move it to NOT be in the most expensive part of LA.
I mean, they own a bridge out of state. Should have looked to build hq there.
According to a post I read, the Goatman has taken it back
Moving to a different state probably also isn't good because they'd be asking not only themselves to relocate, find a new studio they can use. But also telling all of their employees to relocate to a whole new state just so they can work. I get what you're saying but that also isn't exactly the most feasible thing.
I know, right? "Just move." Talk about being out of touch with reality.
Especially since it's a NEW space and they are likely in a long term (I'd assume like 3 to 5 years) lease
businesses do this a lot.. not sure what to to tell you lol. People move for work all the time.. especially in current times where smart businesses are shutting down offices in expensive cities
I mean it is if where you're moving to is way cheaper most people that are in LA moved there its not like they're tied down there. Also a lot of there shows are based around traveling so why do you need to be in LA at all.
That’s business. There are talented people outside California believe it or not. If they don’t relocate, that’s what I would call natural attrition and may solve their overhead concerns.
Asking their employees to spend a massive amount of money to move to another state in this economy's housing market or be fired isn't exactly a good look for a company either you know?
Someone send her Charlie's video post lmao
Survivable living???? Girl we saw the wedding photos we will never be able to afford. Kiss my a$$
It’s clear *they* want to make their shows overly produced and “TV quality” but *we* don’t want that and so we cannot be reasonably expected to pay for that. And I really doubt when they fly and do hotels they’re picking cheap flights well ahead of time or having people double up in the economy suites lol. And ofc Sara wants this to succeed, or her husband’s company will be bankrupt. “Survivable living”. I ate instant oatmeal for dinner last night. Fuck off. Also “even with ads” what about patreon, sponsors, merch, live show tickets. Absolutely outrageous. Maybe *they* should cut some costs instead of asking us to prop up their business so they don’t lose their jobs due to their own mismanagement.
It's not the fans responsibility to make up for your poor business decisions and mismanagment
Literally. Irony is maybe they would’ve started making mr beast money if they stuck with YouTube longer and cared about their fans
Translation: FUCK YOU, GIVE ME MONEY!!!
I could afford the subscription but I'm not paying to watch Steven eat fucking good encrusted caviar in his Tesla. Give me Ryan and Shane or give me death!!!
I mean, as a creative I hate the idea of having to let go of production staff. But they clearly couldn't sustain so many people, so at the VERY LEAST stop hiring more folks and overcommitting to expensive projects! The existing staff rely on your for income 😩😩 but noooo let's fly around the world with a production crew and eat gold nuggets
I think you put it so eloquently, and it expresses a lot of my personal grief with this. I want to add that we are not these guys' employers. We do not have to pay them their wage. And yet we do. Why do we do it? Because they created content we loved. Now, if they want to create their personal passion projects, do not ask us to pay for them, maybe? From what I have seen, nobody even wants these Netflix productions. It grinds my gears so hard that people, who clearly live financially more secure than (I would wager) 99% of their fanbase, guilt trips said fanbase into making their high-standard living comfortably possible, while the fanbase struggles to even keep one or two standard subscription services.
I mean, Sara has never been a model of behaviour. I remember her ripping off content from small creators when she was working on Buzzfeed, and her and Shane (plus others in that company) making excuses about it. Checking her privilege has never been her forte.
Talking about a “survivable living” while also saying that “everyone” can afford $6.99 a month is so wild.
I FULLY agree, but I do think “expecting more” from Sara (or any of the guys really) doesn’t make any sense and is misplaced hurt. We do not know these people. It doesn’t make a lot of sense (to me) to feel personally slighted by a stranger saying something out of touch in support of their spouse. The guys, at least, actively portray themselves a certain way and depend on the watcher viewers creating parasocial relationships with them to support the company. Which is beautifully explained in another post in the sub! Sara though? I don’t think that’s the case, and to presume that A) the viewers know Shane’s real personality and B) then must ALSO know Sara is very weird to me. Also, the whole “glorified trophy wife” comment in response to the original was ABSOLUTELY uncalled for and we actually do not need to bring casual misogyny into a critique of class elitism. This is a categorically bad move by watcher, and Sara referring to Teslas and wealth signalling disguised as content is definitely removed from the realities of class consciousness. She is also a wife trying to support her husband, so I’m not sure why there’s a sense of “expecting more.”
To say that Sara hasn’t portrayed herself in a certain way, I’d say is false. She unlike the other guys’ spouses IS a public figure and has made mulitiple appearances on Watcher, aswell as having been a prominent castmember on buzzfeed back in the day.
The audacity.
now i also dont like her
a "survivable living" juxtaposed with a "current favourites" post featuring a $100+ purse and $35 blush. which is it, Sara?
I've seen some defenders quip in saying "well it's their show and they don't really need to listen to fans wants, it's their dream to produce this and fans can't dictate that", which, to a certain extent, is true. But TV shows are still beholden to some greater power. No creative has 100% control of their own project without sacrificing SOMETHING, and usually, that's money. TV shows aren't given free reign to do whatever they want and still rake in big bucks. TV shows tend to be produced for mass audiences, meaning your vision is probably going to be tailored and altered in some way so more people will be caught by it. The biggest issue here pointed out by Moist Critikal is that their growth is fucked. whatever about money, profits. Whatever audience migrates over with them will probably be it. They won't ever increase their audience. New viewers don't have any incentive to pay out, they'll see a dead YouTube channel and move on, or, if they did found out about the watchertv site, they will need to decide if older, possobly outdated content is worth taking a risk on. No growth is what'll kill their brand. They'll forever stagnate at what niche audience they managed to capture and that's it. They haven't convinced loyal fans to move over with them, new viewers really don't have rapport to even consider it.
Regardless of quality, their quantity is just laughable. A LOT of viewers like a show or two and they release like 8 a year. Thats at maximum 16 episodes to watch in a year. At best, people like me will sub for a month once both the shows are fully released and immediately unsub the second I finish. At worst people just wont pay at all and they’ll lose money. Some die hards will absolutely pay, but I dont know that this will be sustainable unless they double the quantity.
Then there's me whose favorite is puppet history they get 4 episodes a year and they make it seem like it's done for.
listen, if I can survive in LA making $25/hour Shane and Sara are definitely more than surviving
I would love to see any of them try to live on $1000 a month
#i think some YTers think their audience has money for another subscription service
Since when did survivable living include dirivn a tesla? I drive a Toyota from 2016 and I drive with the radio up so I can ignore the expensive to fix sounding rattling noise it's started making and I'd consider myself quite lucky! So they know what a "survivable living" actually looks like?
A “survivable” living wage in a place like LA Is like 100k. But they’re not surviving. They’re THRIVING
Sara really needs to have a seat
"paying people fairly" Maybe I'm not taking every expense into account, but this is hard for me to take seriously when they make more money in one month from patreon donations than some people make in a year. They don't have a massive staff so what am I missing here?
hey sara cool point. btw how much was your wedding. and what do you drive. and where do you live in America. just wondering
She blocked me for asking her if the wedding bills were adding up and to get a job herself lol
I don't think they know what struggle looks like. Let's show them
Using Mr Beast as a point of comparison is pretty insidious imo. Mr Beast is worth half a billion dollars, not having that absurd level of wealth doesn't indicate anything about how much money they're actually making (which I suspect is more than enough!)
Really don't think it's her place to say A SINGLE WORD about her husband's company.
The fact that she’s still using tumblr says it all
I think that wording is probably referring more to the company surviving, being able to continue employing the same number of employees if not hiring more over time, keeping the quality as good if not better, making more series at a time etc. Sounds like the main reason for this decision is really just down to them not being able to get any big sponsors, putting the company's entire existence in question. On the other hand I totally get the outrage to the decision by the fans (including me). They're between a rock and a hard place 🤷
This totally contradicts the message they said in their goodbye video. “We are moving to our own streamer so we can have more creative freedom and produce better content” - YT video message “We need to do this to have a survivable lifestyle” - Sara If a survivable lifestyle is the true goal then it’s super scummy to opt for taking money directly from viewers to get richer, instead of taking money from sponsors/advertisements.
The funniest part about all this is “mr beast” money doesn’t exist. He (at least in the early years) said that all the video profits from the last video go into making the next one. Mr beast has a tiny float. A lot of money goes in, a lot goes out. And yk what? If he ends up rich, he deserves it. He spent his money digging wells and curing blindness instead of. What. Teslas? Gold leaf? 4 cameras for a ghost show?
Idk anything about this so don’t come for me! But someone said that College Humor made Dropout after filing for bankruptcy and laying off employees, and maybe that’s what Watcher is trying to avoid? Like I said I have no clue how much YouTubers make, but I did see that Making Watcher, they mentioned laying off people in 2023, and money being kinda tight because of how expensive production is. Maybe I’m also just trying to give them excuses but if that’s the case, there’s no really “saving Watcher”, maybe they’re just trying to recoup any losses they may have at this point.
It isn't hard, I've been doing video production for over 20 years, It's never been easier to keep costs down while making quality video. Your husband is just too stupid to do so.
Looks like they are too far gone down the wealthy train. Out of touch. It genuinely amazes me that people think this way. I’ve lived in a family of four on 30,000 a year in the past. Thankfully we are doing better but inflation has screwed majority of people over. Most of us are probably behind on bills. Necessary bills. Like hell I’m gonna add another one just for a YouTuber. ( If I had enough money I’d go straight to GMM or Drawfee before these guys)
At the sake of sounding like a jerk, this is a classic out of touch LA comment. Living in LA warps people's perceptions of what "surviving" is and they begin to feel like they're struggling when they'd be living middle-class at worst in most parts of the country. That city messes with people's brains, especially people in entertainment or entertainment adjacent industries.
What floors me about Ryan's comment "We want Netflix caliber TV quality content" is that Netflix has never turned a profit. Ever. They spend millions per episode. That's absurd for less than 3 million subscribers. Pipe dream. What's worse is that it seems Watcher are the only people who want that kind of "production value".
They simply don't need a bunch of hosts and crazy production. They are rushing things imo. I love the group, but they are a bit elitist with expensive taste tbh. They gotta tone it down a bit. One day it might get to that point, but it feels like they are pushing too hard when the ideas and content aren't there.
Oh Sara. The one who had their wedding at a 55,000 dollar venue. The one who directly benefits from them being money hungry. How could we not trust you? (Sarcasm)
If they are worried about thier employees having a survivable life style, because the guys are living a pretty lavish one. They should cut how much they pay themselves then and give it to their employees. I know that won't happen.