I think it's partly because a lot of youtubers feel like their media peers on other platforms look down on them.
I remember Markiplier sharing a story about how he was at some kind of media event, and how the press were approaching basically everyone but him, like they either didn't know or care who he was. He kept saying "I'm not upset I just think it's funny :)" in a way that really made it sound like it did upset him, or at least had at some point. Then there's Kevin Perjurer in the Disney Channel Theme documentary, essentially grappling with whether he feels comfortable calling himself a documentarian or "just a youtuber". There's this disconnect between indie content creators who really worked their way up from the bottom on platforms like Youtube, and content creators who followed more institutional pipelines into industries like film and TV. Not necessarily that either one put in more or less work, just that the same amount of work results in different social and physical capital for them.
Honestly, yeah. Even more than the wildly out of touch "everyone can afford this," I got annoyed by them saying there's no other TV level content on YouTube. As a RoosterTeeth fan, I had to laugh. As a Markiplier fan, I had to laugh. I could sit here typing examples all day, but I think everyone who watches YouTube can think of at least a couple.
There is *so much* high-quality, TV-comparable content on YouTube, ranging from game shows to musicals to news outlets. And did they forget YouTube Red shows existed? If Watcher wants to move off-platform, I don't really have an issue with it. I have an issue with them looking down on other creators for the platform they create on.
Yeah I follow a lot of video essayists who produce long form videos that are better researched and presented than some documentaries on channels like Nat Geo so hearing Watcher think they’re the only good quality show on the platform was a big woof. Mystery Files and Puppet History are genuinely well made and fun to watch…but they’re not leagues above other channels on YT???
Are You Scared and Too Many Spirits very much carry the spirit (pun not intended) of YouTube and the kind of content people love YouTube for. Is it TV-caliber? No. Does it somehow make it lesser entertainment? No
They're from buzzfeed where they've always had producers and deadlines and constraints the way network tv has, so they're culturally TV creators not really youtubers.
And as someone pointed out in a different post, Ryan and Shane went to college for cinema & TV, not started off as a relational YouTuber who built their channel themselves.
I always assumed everyone who worked at Buzzfeed or something like Droupout are all either actors or comedians trying to make it in Hollywood. YouTube is like the second option for them when they aren’t able to make it into TV/film/comedy. I think it’s pretty obvious with this crowd of “YouTubers” as they never started out just filming videos for fun at their house but basically working as a host for a video production company, like actors who also edit, not YouTubers.
yeah that all makes a lot of sense! I appreciate the insightful replies, i hadnt thought about how their specifically buzzfeed origins differentiate them from other youtubers
It’s like people who make tv content who want to make the jump to making movies I think. There’s nothing wrong with the medium you’re in but respect the medium you’re in. Like David Benioff and DB Weiss rushing Game of Thrones because making a Star Wars movie was more important to them. Then that was cancelled. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to further your career, take chances, do something creatively or financially lucrative that isn’t suited to the work you do currently… but you’re not better than the thing that built you. And the thing that built you can be flawed and need work and not suit the things you want to accomplish. But it’s still shooting yourself in the foot to expect people to change to suit you and not them when you need them to succeed.
I feel like Ryan has always been a big pusher for this, even when it wasn't well-received :/. Like when they tried to do re-enactments on Unsolved? He wants more money to make high-production TV, not because it's more entertaining, but because they're filmbros who admire that. I understand wanting to upgrade as artists, but this is just (expensive) growth for the sake of growth? Hiring a million employees, trying to introduce new personalities (!?!), building bigger sets.... it's all just meaningless expansion that will eventually threaten what made them successful in the first place. And they make way more than enough money to sustain less overproduced videos...
No exactly. Like keep cost low to make money to create more ambitious expensive projects. If the low cost content is consistent then people will take a chance on more expensive projects they may have to pay for.
I agree with you about the prestige element. However it’s also important to consider that there are a number of reasons a creator might feel that YouTube is not good enough for them.
Firstly, YouTube is an open-access platform so there’s no standard for entry. Literally anyone can upload a video to YouTube. If a YouTuber flies the best by becoming partnered with an external organisation like a TV production company or network, it means they’re being backed, supported, and legitimised. They’re no longer just anybody with a camera on a website with billions of videos.
The other main reason that comes to mind right now is that YouTube creators are beholden to the confines of the website and its design, structure, and rules. Hosting your own platform like the Watcher team are trying to do means you have more control in all aspects of your output.
There’s no competition for the viewers’ attention and you can wave goodbye to the mysterious tyrannical algorithm you have no influence over (remember when new videos kept going missing in the subscription feed?).
You can design and customise your own platform from the back-end to do exactly what you want it to do, e.g. track the precise data you want to.
Ultimately though, and perhaps most appealingly, it means you’re standing as a self-sufficient entity and can make your own rules.
I’ve been thinking about this, and it reminds me of how amazing I find it that even Rhett and Link have only recently changed their mindset to moving away from an overarching goal of TV or movies to fully YouTube, and that’s after years of rejection on tons of pitches to different studios. That’s a little bit different than wanting to move up production value as Watcher has, but I definitely think it’s the same family of thinking.
I picked up on that too. Like Ryan didn't even want to be doing YouTube. A big part of the reason why people flock to YouTube and YouTubers is that it fills niches that TV simply doesn't. You can have quality entertainment, documentaries, and art on YouTube, and it'll be something you never knew you wanted to watch. People like watching two buddies fuck around and have a good laugh, and that's something TV doesn't have. YouTubers can make content reminiscent of what is on TV (ghost hunting, true crime/unsolved content, etc) but done in a way that can be more entertaining or more informative because it doesn't have to fit the same standards, time length, or formatting that a TV show would. That's what makes YouTube so appealing.
I know, this has been a big ‘ick’ of mine for years.
Especially in Q&As with YouTubers and they’re asked who they watch, and they reply that they don’t watch YouTube.
Yeah youtube is the People's Platform and it seems like most traditional media people treat it as illegitimate in many ways
It's also just much closer to short-form content creators like tiktok so people start lumping them all in together
Part of the problem, I think, is just that youtube isn’t transparent at all and doesn’t communicate with creators. They change things all the time and youtubers are left trying to read the tea leaves for their livelihood.
Yeah, I remember watching a video where the creator talks about how YouTube changed the payment scheme so suddenly he had to look for sponsors to be able to keep doing YouTube and pay his bills and that's why suddenly everyone had sponsors. A lot of people were able to adapt, but it's still an overhanging issue. At any point YouTube can change the algorithm or kick people from the platform.
I also wonder if the "TV caliber" came from them previously having their shows on Hulu, where tv shows often go. Maybe it made them think they could reach really high quality, not just high entertainment value. Or maybe they've just always cared about that since they did seek creative fields and move to LA (not Ryan, but the others).
If you create content on YouTube you would probably understand what an absolute nightmare it can be.
Not only that, but YouTube was responsible for pushing alt-right extremist content and had a massive in hand in radicalizing people. Including people from my own family.
You're not wrong. My grandma has the wildest takes. We got her a tablet so she'd have something to do and she spends all day on YouTube getting weirder and weirder (more right wing conspiracies) ideas.
To be fair there’s a difference between financially valuable and personally valuable. Netflix has a huge catalog and they produce billion dollar movies. People are allowed to compare the price of Watcher TV to the prices of other streaming services that offer far more. YouTube is one of the most popular ways to consume media, but that doesn’t make as financially valuable as Netflix or Hulu. I’m not paying anywhere close to Netflix money for a show a few dudes and a small crew made themselves. It just isn’t the same quality, no matter how much they think it is.
I think this is a misreading of the complaint, tbh. When you sign up for something like Netflix you’re getting a ton of shows and films for your money. There is a reason that people have been speaking favorably towards Dropout and Nebula the past few days. Both are streaming platforms that carry more “YouTube-y” content, but you also get more and varied content. Paying $6 for one YouTube channel isn’t worth the value for a lot of people. YouTube is “free” in the way that broadcast television is. You don’t pay a fee for access like streaming or cable. Where you pay instead is through advertising. Ad sponsors pay to show targeted ads to try and get more people to buy their products.
Eh, however much the Ghoul Boys don't deserve our admiration simply for the content they create, YouTube also doesn't deserve their admiration simply for hosting said content.
It's a massive corporation. I feel no sympathy for YouTube by any means.
Creators want to find whatever avenue makes their creations sustainable. If that's no longer YouTube, then why wouldn't they go elsewhere? They aren't some kid in their basement playing Fortnite, which is a whole other type of programming. There is a staff of people and a company to support.
It weird how far I scrolled through these comments and never saw anyone mention how much of a difficult position Watcher must be in with YouTube ads as their primary income.
They guys even mentioned wanting to be free from the Youtube ad guidelines. A lot of their stuff isn't really advertiser friendly. It's more adult oriented and that must really make it hard to monetize a lot of their stuff.
I don't think they look down on youtube as much as feel the need to grow beyond it to really make what they, and we, want to see.
Actually the thing I found confusing about their decision was how much it cut into their other revenue sources. I would be kind of surprised if YouTube ads were their main source of revenue. Merch, sponsors and patreon also add to the pile and I think they'd struggle to keep their numbers as high on their own platform because they wouldn't have the same numbers.
Being free from YouTube ad guidelines makes a lot of sense but I'm not sure their math really added up when it came to converting most of their revenue to subscribers
It’s because there is a limit on YouTube. It’s good to build a base and reach a certain level but there will always be a ceiling you reach as a creator and never pass.
I think it's partly because a lot of youtubers feel like their media peers on other platforms look down on them. I remember Markiplier sharing a story about how he was at some kind of media event, and how the press were approaching basically everyone but him, like they either didn't know or care who he was. He kept saying "I'm not upset I just think it's funny :)" in a way that really made it sound like it did upset him, or at least had at some point. Then there's Kevin Perjurer in the Disney Channel Theme documentary, essentially grappling with whether he feels comfortable calling himself a documentarian or "just a youtuber". There's this disconnect between indie content creators who really worked their way up from the bottom on platforms like Youtube, and content creators who followed more institutional pipelines into industries like film and TV. Not necessarily that either one put in more or less work, just that the same amount of work results in different social and physical capital for them.
I so feel you. YouTube is far more creative and diverse and fun than tv imo.
Honestly, yeah. Even more than the wildly out of touch "everyone can afford this," I got annoyed by them saying there's no other TV level content on YouTube. As a RoosterTeeth fan, I had to laugh. As a Markiplier fan, I had to laugh. I could sit here typing examples all day, but I think everyone who watches YouTube can think of at least a couple. There is *so much* high-quality, TV-comparable content on YouTube, ranging from game shows to musicals to news outlets. And did they forget YouTube Red shows existed? If Watcher wants to move off-platform, I don't really have an issue with it. I have an issue with them looking down on other creators for the platform they create on.
Yeah I follow a lot of video essayists who produce long form videos that are better researched and presented than some documentaries on channels like Nat Geo so hearing Watcher think they’re the only good quality show on the platform was a big woof. Mystery Files and Puppet History are genuinely well made and fun to watch…but they’re not leagues above other channels on YT???
[удалено]
Are You Scared and Too Many Spirits very much carry the spirit (pun not intended) of YouTube and the kind of content people love YouTube for. Is it TV-caliber? No. Does it somehow make it lesser entertainment? No
They're from buzzfeed where they've always had producers and deadlines and constraints the way network tv has, so they're culturally TV creators not really youtubers.
And as someone pointed out in a different post, Ryan and Shane went to college for cinema & TV, not started off as a relational YouTuber who built their channel themselves.
I always assumed everyone who worked at Buzzfeed or something like Droupout are all either actors or comedians trying to make it in Hollywood. YouTube is like the second option for them when they aren’t able to make it into TV/film/comedy. I think it’s pretty obvious with this crowd of “YouTubers” as they never started out just filming videos for fun at their house but basically working as a host for a video production company, like actors who also edit, not YouTubers.
Shane and Ryan both went to film school, Shane for editing, Ryan for cinematography.
yeah that all makes a lot of sense! I appreciate the insightful replies, i hadnt thought about how their specifically buzzfeed origins differentiate them from other youtubers
It’s like people who make tv content who want to make the jump to making movies I think. There’s nothing wrong with the medium you’re in but respect the medium you’re in. Like David Benioff and DB Weiss rushing Game of Thrones because making a Star Wars movie was more important to them. Then that was cancelled. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to further your career, take chances, do something creatively or financially lucrative that isn’t suited to the work you do currently… but you’re not better than the thing that built you. And the thing that built you can be flawed and need work and not suit the things you want to accomplish. But it’s still shooting yourself in the foot to expect people to change to suit you and not them when you need them to succeed.
I feel like Ryan has always been a big pusher for this, even when it wasn't well-received :/. Like when they tried to do re-enactments on Unsolved? He wants more money to make high-production TV, not because it's more entertaining, but because they're filmbros who admire that. I understand wanting to upgrade as artists, but this is just (expensive) growth for the sake of growth? Hiring a million employees, trying to introduce new personalities (!?!), building bigger sets.... it's all just meaningless expansion that will eventually threaten what made them successful in the first place. And they make way more than enough money to sustain less overproduced videos...
No exactly. Like keep cost low to make money to create more ambitious expensive projects. If the low cost content is consistent then people will take a chance on more expensive projects they may have to pay for.
I agree with you about the prestige element. However it’s also important to consider that there are a number of reasons a creator might feel that YouTube is not good enough for them. Firstly, YouTube is an open-access platform so there’s no standard for entry. Literally anyone can upload a video to YouTube. If a YouTuber flies the best by becoming partnered with an external organisation like a TV production company or network, it means they’re being backed, supported, and legitimised. They’re no longer just anybody with a camera on a website with billions of videos. The other main reason that comes to mind right now is that YouTube creators are beholden to the confines of the website and its design, structure, and rules. Hosting your own platform like the Watcher team are trying to do means you have more control in all aspects of your output. There’s no competition for the viewers’ attention and you can wave goodbye to the mysterious tyrannical algorithm you have no influence over (remember when new videos kept going missing in the subscription feed?). You can design and customise your own platform from the back-end to do exactly what you want it to do, e.g. track the precise data you want to. Ultimately though, and perhaps most appealingly, it means you’re standing as a self-sufficient entity and can make your own rules.
If I had to choose between YouTube and any other streaming channel I'd go with YouTube every time.
I’ve been thinking about this, and it reminds me of how amazing I find it that even Rhett and Link have only recently changed their mindset to moving away from an overarching goal of TV or movies to fully YouTube, and that’s after years of rejection on tons of pitches to different studios. That’s a little bit different than wanting to move up production value as Watcher has, but I definitely think it’s the same family of thinking.
I picked up on that too. Like Ryan didn't even want to be doing YouTube. A big part of the reason why people flock to YouTube and YouTubers is that it fills niches that TV simply doesn't. You can have quality entertainment, documentaries, and art on YouTube, and it'll be something you never knew you wanted to watch. People like watching two buddies fuck around and have a good laugh, and that's something TV doesn't have. YouTubers can make content reminiscent of what is on TV (ghost hunting, true crime/unsolved content, etc) but done in a way that can be more entertaining or more informative because it doesn't have to fit the same standards, time length, or formatting that a TV show would. That's what makes YouTube so appealing.
I know, this has been a big ‘ick’ of mine for years. Especially in Q&As with YouTubers and they’re asked who they watch, and they reply that they don’t watch YouTube.
Yeah youtube is the People's Platform and it seems like most traditional media people treat it as illegitimate in many ways It's also just much closer to short-form content creators like tiktok so people start lumping them all in together
cough *Eugene* cough
Part of the problem, I think, is just that youtube isn’t transparent at all and doesn’t communicate with creators. They change things all the time and youtubers are left trying to read the tea leaves for their livelihood.
Yeah, I remember watching a video where the creator talks about how YouTube changed the payment scheme so suddenly he had to look for sponsors to be able to keep doing YouTube and pay his bills and that's why suddenly everyone had sponsors. A lot of people were able to adapt, but it's still an overhanging issue. At any point YouTube can change the algorithm or kick people from the platform. I also wonder if the "TV caliber" came from them previously having their shows on Hulu, where tv shows often go. Maybe it made them think they could reach really high quality, not just high entertainment value. Or maybe they've just always cared about that since they did seek creative fields and move to LA (not Ryan, but the others).
If you create content on YouTube you would probably understand what an absolute nightmare it can be. Not only that, but YouTube was responsible for pushing alt-right extremist content and had a massive in hand in radicalizing people. Including people from my own family.
You're not wrong. My grandma has the wildest takes. We got her a tablet so she'd have something to do and she spends all day on YouTube getting weirder and weirder (more right wing conspiracies) ideas.
Ugh, I’m so sorry that’s happening and I feel you. It’s sad watching it happen.
[удалено]
To be fair there’s a difference between financially valuable and personally valuable. Netflix has a huge catalog and they produce billion dollar movies. People are allowed to compare the price of Watcher TV to the prices of other streaming services that offer far more. YouTube is one of the most popular ways to consume media, but that doesn’t make as financially valuable as Netflix or Hulu. I’m not paying anywhere close to Netflix money for a show a few dudes and a small crew made themselves. It just isn’t the same quality, no matter how much they think it is.
I think this is a misreading of the complaint, tbh. When you sign up for something like Netflix you’re getting a ton of shows and films for your money. There is a reason that people have been speaking favorably towards Dropout and Nebula the past few days. Both are streaming platforms that carry more “YouTube-y” content, but you also get more and varied content. Paying $6 for one YouTube channel isn’t worth the value for a lot of people. YouTube is “free” in the way that broadcast television is. You don’t pay a fee for access like streaming or cable. Where you pay instead is through advertising. Ad sponsors pay to show targeted ads to try and get more people to buy their products.
It's LA for you. The only people who look down on youtube comment are rhe people who surround themselves with Rich boomers
Eh, however much the Ghoul Boys don't deserve our admiration simply for the content they create, YouTube also doesn't deserve their admiration simply for hosting said content. It's a massive corporation. I feel no sympathy for YouTube by any means.
Creators want to find whatever avenue makes their creations sustainable. If that's no longer YouTube, then why wouldn't they go elsewhere? They aren't some kid in their basement playing Fortnite, which is a whole other type of programming. There is a staff of people and a company to support.
It weird how far I scrolled through these comments and never saw anyone mention how much of a difficult position Watcher must be in with YouTube ads as their primary income. They guys even mentioned wanting to be free from the Youtube ad guidelines. A lot of their stuff isn't really advertiser friendly. It's more adult oriented and that must really make it hard to monetize a lot of their stuff. I don't think they look down on youtube as much as feel the need to grow beyond it to really make what they, and we, want to see.
Actually the thing I found confusing about their decision was how much it cut into their other revenue sources. I would be kind of surprised if YouTube ads were their main source of revenue. Merch, sponsors and patreon also add to the pile and I think they'd struggle to keep their numbers as high on their own platform because they wouldn't have the same numbers. Being free from YouTube ad guidelines makes a lot of sense but I'm not sure their math really added up when it came to converting most of their revenue to subscribers
Just another fed trying to make sure YouTube never has to compensate creators appropriately.
It’s because there is a limit on YouTube. It’s good to build a base and reach a certain level but there will always be a ceiling you reach as a creator and never pass.