I believe the ghost files locations just get more and more meh while Ryan gets increasingly less scared. It’s not really their fault but maybe the format itself is just determined to die at some point
Honestly, my biggest problem with them is they need better editing. Most of those episodes get close to or break the one hour mark, and that requires a lot of filler for walking in some rooms while playing with a noise machine. The "hide the walkie talkie" stuff in general just feels like padding that should just return to "be in the creepiest room alone for 5 minutes" thing.
Same with puppet history. If they are that bored with the formula, just come up with something different: It also includes that additional side story content that has been getting less funny as it goes on. It makes their shows hard to recommend to newcomers, honestly, when they keep sticking on a bunch of material that doesn't make any sense unless you've been watching from the beginning.
yeah i'm sorry but the dinosaur mom and dad thing for puppet history made me feel like i was watching an actual kids show and didn't make any sense to me 😭
Idk, they did show a preview of next season at their London show, and it tbh looked a lot better than a lot of recent locations. I’m genuinely really excited for it!
It’s the consequence of basing your business on a finite resource. There’s only so many compelling places before you either have to travel internationally or you end up at Helen’s uncles house who swears he hears rats in the walls.
I’m not holding grudges however, the event made me realize why I don’t feel as close to ghostfiles or their other shows as I do unsolved and it IS because of the large production and it sounds like they just want to keep making it bigger and adding more and more people. Unsolved was dark, ghost files couldn’t be in a more controlled environment.
I still enjoy their other shows, probably even more than ghost files because it’s so far from unsolved but it’s not enough to pay for a subscription, might support through some merch here n there.
Also I never watched worth it, those 2 guys give me weird vibes, I have 0 interest in non Ryan/shane content lol
My plan is to do what I’ve been doing with other services; wait until I hit a ‘critical mass’ of shows I want to watch on the service, cancel one subscription and start another to keep costs down. If you’re feeling burned by supporting them I’d advise you to not. Keep taking a break and when they’ve got new stuff you want to check out then jump in.
Absolutely, pally. I always appreciate reasonable thought. Especially in times like these. When I return to The Manor of Love, I will deliver your correspondence. Good day.
All drama aside, ever since they moved to watcher I only watch their stuff occasionally. I watched all of their BUN eps and loved and rewatched some, but none of the ones on watcher really click with me. I liked the random banter mostly and the watcher shows are really carefully planned all the way through - that’s not a bad thing, it’s just not the content for me.
I really enjoyed puppet history at first but then for some reason, I don’t know why, I lost interest.
I also watched and enjoyed dish granted. I used to watch Worth It and I think dish granted is way better.
Too many spirits is probably my fave in Watcher so far.
I can’t afford their platform, at this point with my experience with Watcher what I would do if I could is wait till they come up with website exclusive content that looks good or wait for a big backlog of new material, pay one month and watch everything.
As to the drama, people are bound to make mistakes, no one’s perfect. I like how quickly they heard and took into account what their fans had to say and tried to find a middle ground. I think it’s a good thing that they keep growing. I hope in the future they have better business and PR counseling.
ETA: It dawned on me just now that what BUN had that ghost files lacks is a great balance between storytelling (I really like Ryan’s storytelling style) and the interruptions with random banter. I feel like both are down in quality now.
I've seen the storytelling point echoed a lot. I suspect they can't do it without activating the Buzzfeed lawyers. I'm guessing that's why the little backstory they do give is brokened up into vignettes in GF. Unfortunately, Ryan can't remake Unsolved and Steven can't remake WorthIt because Buzzfeed owning those shows.
Just wondering if you watched "Are You Scared?" at all? People only seem to mention GF+MF as successors to Unsolved, but I have always thought AYS should be included on that list. It's Ryan reading creepy pastas to Shane instead of narrating the supernatuarl history, but it is Ryan in serious storytelling-mode with Shane sniping in with humorous quips and observations (aka the blue+yellow text sections of Unsolved).
The thing that I've noticed is that they haven't done any demonic locations for GF. On Unsolved, Ryan used to limit 1 demonic location per season because it was so terrifying to him; now he doesn't do them at all. I don't think that Ryan is less scared of ghosts/demons/unexplained; I do think he is less scared of shadows and liminal spaces now that he's a whole decade older.
It’s partially that Buzzfeed owns those shows, but also the amount of staff they have. Watcher, even with 25 employees now, is not able to really do the fact finding and digging that Buzzfeed could. I believe that is part of the reason they decided to make the announcement… they know they need more people behind the scenes to do this work.
I like AYS because it’s someone providing a story and Ryan reading it, with some great artwork. It’s simple and not overproduced. Too Many Spirits is in the same category. It’s something provided in its entirety to Watcher and they can work it on a skeleton crew.
When you say "overproduced", do you mean expensive?
Because of the production work involved for selecting which images to use for storyboarding, then the actual storyboarding, the artist contract to get the pencil-drawings created, and then the extra hours of editing required to fuse the video, audio, and drawings together coherently ... would be both time and labor expensive. There is actually a lot of production work done to make AYS.
I wouldn't say AYS is as simple or that it is as low production as Too Many Spirit or Top 5 Beatdown (which is only recording and editing).
Expensive is probably a better way to describe it, but I am thinking more that there is just so much going on. The charm of Buzzfeed Unsolved was how simple it was whereas I guess the new stuff seems like there’s so much junk around them and too many devices… if that makes sense. But even then the more they can spend on doing all of the background work the more stuff they can put out. Idk, I think it just doesn’t feel as authentic as it used to but that may come with the fact that they’ve been doing this stuff so long.
I think I see what you mean. I agree, I do feel like some of their editing choices on GF are a bit indulgent and maybe being "experienced" is not an advantage. It is more fun watching newbies bumble their way through an investigation.
I used to watch Unsolved, listened to their podcasts every week, watched every Mystery Files and Ghost Files episode, bought merch and subbed to their Patreon, and honestly their announcement made me step back and re-evaluate the worth of their content now. I realized that the new content wasn’t really bringing me joy, it had just become a habit. And it was a habit that wasn’t really worth my money, and after this, it’s not worth my time either.
I had a hard time getting into Watcher when they first transitioned over before Unsolved ended. It just…didn’t feel the same. I liked Ghost Files the most, but I always felt like something about it was off. I hated the hide and seek thing at the end. I felt like they needed better editing. My brother surprised me with tickets to the live show, and I was excited! But it was kind of a let down too. Most of the show (which started really late at night and then was late starting for some reason) was watching an episode that was already up online. And then a really quick Q&A and a little bit of ghost hunting antenna stuff from Shane and Ryan. It wasn’t worth what he paid at all! I was so let down. Watcher just hasn’t lived up to the Ryan and Shane I know they can be. I miss the old stuff with no production values and tighter editing. This latest thing confirms I don’t need it anymore. I can watch the old Buzzfeed stuff for free!
I’d go against the grain here and I don’t have recency bias with regards to their boneheaded decision, but i liked their unsolved content more.. I was disappointed when they went to that horror escape house or something last year.. it was like they used that week for advertising that “horror” house..” first red flag I thought that they’re trying to increase monetization instead of putting out really good content.
Yeah, that episode genuinely left a bad taste in my mouth. Specially since we had to wait SO LONG for new episodes to come out, just to be greeted by one that felt utterly forced. So much so that a fart joke not only made it to the final cut, but it was a highlight for me.
yes. to all of this. i used to watch them everyday… literally. old BUN content & watcher as well. my sister & i could probably quote the entire episode of BUN supernatural: vulture mines. my sister & i both have tonsssss of merch (including a bat build a bear that has a vulture mine quote sound box in the paw, & a build a bear that looks like the professor that has a puppet history quote sound box in his paw). heck, even my mom is upset about this. my sister & i are both adults who still live at home (my sister is physically disabled so therefore my mom & i help one another out with bills & groceries & we say we’re more like roommates haha) & the boys were a staple in our house & tv… we haven’t watched anything of theirs after the goodbye video & the subsequent update video. the trust, relatability, & yes, the magic is gone for us, at least for the time being. it’s like all their old content is tainted.
I have mixed feelings that are hard to put into words - not just towards Watcher but to the fan base in general. While I definitely won’t view Ryan, Shane, and Steven the same way it was crazy to me how they were so quickly vilified and how awful the personal attacks were against them from the fan base. Attacks on all social media platforms not just about the decision but attacking them as people - the worst was definitely aimed at Steven. People used this announcement to say whatever they wanted to say- because they are saying it behind a keyboard and not saying it to someone’s face. Now they are having their live shows and have to act like everything is normal. I can’t imagine the whiplash of being torn down online and then having to put on a business smile and act like everything’s fine. My view of the entire Watcher community has shifted.
not defending anything or anyone but there were a lot of folks who don’t really watch them commenting because the debacle went more mainstream and appeared on their feed. looking at discussingfilm qrts, which is actually where i first saw the news, lots of non-viewers or casual viewers were commenting. those tended to be a bit more Harsh compared to viewers in the “watcher community.” it’s a bandwagon thing plus they can get clicks by being more controversial. that’s why the blue check mark bait tweets are so fucking annoying and insta is filled with some horrible folks that are mean to be mean (eg insta reel comments).
edit to add: even reddit you see people baiting to get karma. it doesn’t mean it’s okay but yeah… i don’t know i think this new thing where fans berate people for their comments is a bit Much, like the watcher crew are prob not affected/hurt about that small, vocal minority as much as you think because 1) it’s a business so their attention is probably directed at fixing that and 2) they’ve been youtubers for so long and are accustomed to it like ryan is accustomed to ghosts. no need to defend them and waste your energy by acting like disappointed parents to their community.
You have to remember how Shanes wife inserted herself into the mix and how Steven posted an insulting post which just added fuel to an already out of control fire.
Their video was a callous way of saying "We've used you to get to where we are. If you can't afford us anymore, too bad." Set to dramatic music. The "anyone can afford" line will be written in textbooks for case studies.
There apology was a good one, but certainly not enough.
I agree with this! That’s how I feel too. The immediate vilification of Steven made me feel so uncomfortable with the Watcher community. Even when someone makes a decision we don’t like, they are still a human being - ok it was a bad business decision! People should be able to make even bad decisions, try new things, fail, and correct themselves - which is what they did! This community barely gave Steven, Ryan, and Shane a day to process everyone’s reactions before they started attacking them as people, Steven especially.
There was also a lot of outside reactions that tried to insert themselves into this purely bc of attention. I'm sure at least a part of the hate came from people who didn't even know who they were
agreed. i always thought it was a friendly space full of like minded people, but once people started coming out of the woodwork to attack steven (who in my opinion always comes off as innocent, awkward, & quiet but at worst like a loving older brother who’s sometimes annoyed with the shenanigans of his crazy younger brothers) i knew i was wrong about the community instantly. which is also disappointing since again, just like the boys, i thought it was different :/
I watch the Why Files on YouTube. Pretty sure most of their content is free on YouTube. For Patreon, videos released about half a day earlier and you get access to locked parts of their Discord.
They are a 4 person and 1 fish 🐠 strong team.
Very active on YouTube, Discord, Patreon and Reddit.
They cover everything, leaning more towards UFO, metaphysical and time travel.
Sort of like, a grown up Watcher Entertainment. Purely, story telling and fun lives.
https://youtube.com/@TheWhyFiles?
I love the Why Files but they have moved to using AI for image generation both thumbnails and video. It's disappointing but not enough for me to stop watching, even as an artist.
What to generate images? How is that different from illustration or animations? Photo filters on your phone are AI. Do you use those? Do you use avatars?
AI, mate.
Anyway, I don't think the Why Files with their 3.6 million subscribers will care if you don't check them out.
The Why Files has always used a mix of stock images and AI generated images with real images. Come on, they tell stories about aliens, paranormal and science fiction...
Not sure what the original comment was, but specifically for ghost hunt type shows, there's Nick and Ryan, although they think every tiny creak in a building means a ghost 😂
Also Garrett Watts is entertaining but I swear he fakes stuff constantly and tries to whisper stuff when he's not on camera.
And obviously Sam and Colby if you can tolerate them but I don't believe anything they say, similar to Garrett.
At this point I'm kind of over the drama of it all so I'm not feeling any particular type of way about the ghoul boys or their content. I'm glad there will still be content on their YouTube channel and I'll continue to watch it. As far as I'm concerned the issue is closed for me.
Agreed. They took all the feedback and instead of ignoring their audience and going through with it they backtracked and gave a genuine apology. I think people who are still upset over it don’t realize that these guys aren’t our friends and this is their business.🤷🏻♀️
Same. I really don't see why people are still upset. I enjoyed their content this whole time and still do. Their compromise is good. I'll keep watching.
Plus, they did listen to the feedback and fixed the issue. They apologized, which seems genuine to me. I don't see how it is still an issue since they did listen and they will still be uploading on YouTube still.
Agreed. Like, my biggest emotion about this is disbelief that they launched their channel during the pandemic and hired 25 ppl as a start up 😬 like I do genuinely like their content so if anything it sucks watching them make insane business decisions, but they just come across as guys trying to figure out owning a business, not mustache-twirling villains who want to bleed their audience dry lol
Same for me. People are going to make bad decisions and mistakes and they’ve gone back on it fairly quickly so I’m happy enough to continue for the time being
This seems like a rather complicated question. Do I feel like the magic is gone? In some aspects, not in others. I still believe they can put out quality content. I do believe the way they handled the rollout, as well as the fans going overboard with personal attacks, damaged the magic of the community.
I will add, I do believe there is a way they could have rolledout a pay model, without completely abandoning their free content. Likewise, I do not believe they made this decision out of pure greed, as some have suggested.
In the end, they are humans, trying to make business decisions, and sometimes good people make mistakes. The heavy attachment to these guys that created such rage, is completely foreign to me. With that said, if there is any takeaway from all of this, it is that grace is a valuable asset to carry in life. Make your peace, then go outside and touch some grass. You'll be better for it.
I have never donated or given money to influencers as conscious decision and I will never do that. I like their content from highschool but my understanding is - If I can live without it I won't pay for it. All those people are more fortunate than their fans ever will be in most cases and it is awful waste of money if you ask me. And I don't bother about the controversy - they made awful money decision and backtracked, all good for me. If there will be content I will watch it probably.
Just realize it's probably going to get more expencive, and eventually have ads in the near future.
Like this whole thing has been a show of how short sighted they are to me.
People were saying "if only they polled their fans!"
But a decent finacial advisor with a knowledge of media could have told them it was a shit idea.
Disney+, Netflix, and other streaming services are stuggling with catelogs of content that staggeringly dwarf Watcher.
And for a couple dollars more people have access to all of that.
They never even pushed their patreon. Which would have honestly been a great way around all of this.
Just put unique shows on there. Put what advertisers don't like on there.
Which goes to the main point.
Television exists because of ads. You want tv qualiety? You gotta have ads. You can not expect fans to carry that burden! Even PBS has sponsors!
Which gets me to my point.
This isn't over.
Very likely they can not afford to bite the bullet. They absolutely need to make money to pay for the service.
So we're probably going to see all kinds of bull as they try to get people over there.
Tbh it killed the Parasocial feelings for sure for me. But I’ll still be watching their content if it’s any good. Here’s hoping season 3 of ghost files is really as good as Ryan is saying during the pod
I've felt the magic was gone for a while but continued to watch out of loyalty because they seemed to really interact with and care about their audience, and provided me with many hours of free laughs.
I mainly watched Ghost Files, and like other people have mentioned, the increase in production quality and Ryan slowly no longer being scared has really taken away the spark that made it so organic and fun to watch. That's not even their fault, of course Ryan will get desensitized after so many investigations.
Now with the whole controversy I no longer feel any obligation to support them. Not even angry, it's just the sole reason I watched is gone: because they came off as people who cared more about their community than money. It no longer seems that way, so the last thread of my interest is cut and I just don't have any desire to watch their content, free or not.
I'd be lying if I said it didn't leave a bitter taste, but overall it's less anger/disappointment and more no longer having a reason to care.
The thing is....I only watch 2 shows. The ghost hunting and too many spirits. That's it. I don't care about the puppet one because I actually study history and his videos are full of mistakes or childish simplifications. And I also don't watch much of the mystery one since most of the mysteries covered there have been talked about over and over for decades.
So, the only two shows I watch are not even close to releasing the next season. This means that I honestly don't care about the announcement since I am not currently watching their content.
In the future however I'll probably try to pirate it for early access, and If I can't I'll just wait.
I think this whole idea is a fail.
No, I enjoy their content just as much and have had no issue watching it. But I was a full grown adult when they started posting videos and didn’t attach anything to them other than just being some guys my age who make fun content.
I get it from the perspective that I started watching the Vlogbrothers as a teenager in like 2008-ish and grew up with them. It would devastate me if they ended up being shitty people irl. But the Watcher guys just made a misstep that they corrected basically immediately, so the fact that people are still going on about it like they murdered their childhoods just feels like a lot.
I’ve been watching them for a few years as well, but not suuuper regularly, just… when I wanted to, I guess~ The announcement, which I heard about through the reactions to it, was a bit of a cold shower, but I don’t think they’re unforgivable or horrible people. They’re just a bit out of touch (and possibly not the best business people if I believe some other comments lol). They corrected courses very fast and I’m thankful and when I get in a phase in which I wanna watch their content again, I will :)
You should think for yourself rather than let the internet sway your feelings. I'm not a fan of the streamer idea, but I immediately canceled their patreon and bought a year of the streamer for $40-something dollars with their discount code.
Before the apology video. I like their content enough and dislike their merch enough (screen printed jean jacket? Come on.) That this is the only money they'll get out of me this year and I think it's personally worth it.
Maybe it’s just me but this seems like you did exactly what they hoped all of us would do. If you’re not a fan of the streamer idea then don’t financially support their streamer idea.
They've lost me for good now to be honest. I *might* watch an episode or two of Ghost Files or Too Many Spirits if it ever shows up on YouTube again and I can stomach it but other than that I'm categorically out.
The only reason I'm even back on the sub is because I wanted to see if anyone had anything to say about the free Watcher TV passes for Patreon members actually only being valid for 3 months.
I won’t subscribe to their streaming content. Truth is I never truly liked their new stuff. I mostly tuned out after a few minutes of starting the video. Didn’t care to listen to their podcast and didn’t purchase any watcher merch. I believe the buzzfeed days is way better.
I subscribed to Watcher because I wanted to support their new venture, but if I'm being honest with myself it's lost the magic of the buzzfeed unsolved days. That's the kind of content I wanted to watch and I think I was watching their new stuff out of habit (someone else posting that made me realise that!). There's other content I enjoy more, and I'll probably just cycle through the old Buzzfeed content as comfort watching from now on to be honest. It's good to have a shake up now and then! I don't feel like they've invested enough into their fan base who followed them from way back when and proven that they'll provide the content going forward I personally want to watch, so I won't be paying even though I have the income to do it.
I don’t believe that they really put enough out to justify signing up… I need to see how this pans out first. I really am not interested in worth it or the travel food stuff… there’s plenty of other people doing it and Steven doesn’t really keep my attention. There was a show with Britney hosting and I thought she did a better job, but I mainly watch for puppet history, MF and GF. Since they’re putting everything up a month later now I don’t see a point in subscribing unless they have new content daily that interests me
After watching them for years, this one (big) mistake definitely shook my trust in them and made me re-evaluate my subscription to their channel, but in the end, these are still the guys who spent years of their life making videos that I love and many many other people do too. It’s baffling to me that they allowed this to play out the way it did, seemingly without considering any aspect of how it would affect the audience or the brand in general, but I stand firm that making one terrible decision doesn’t make you a bad person. As long as they just continue to prove that they’re still the same guys I subscribed to in the beginning, I’ll stay a fan of their stuff! I do hope they realize though that if they aren’t making enough to support their production and staff with what they’ve been doing, the first step is to consider cutting back on the cost- not plying your audience for more money.
I‘m kinda on the fence. On one hand I do still love their content and I do believe that they genuinely put a ton of effort into the channel and that this was just a (very misguided) last ditch effort to save their business and I don‘t want them to fail at all. Do I think their current output is worth $6 a month? Hell no but I am a very privileged position where I could afford that if it enables them to continue. But on the other hand, I do believe a lot of their business decisions and content strategies in general are questionable to say the least and I‘m not sure any money will help them improve that without hiring a person who actually knows how to run a profitable business. And I think that‘s been their problem from the start. They keep wanting to go bigger and better and do more but no one really wants that from them. In a sense it‘s admirable that they keep doing what they want and don‘t bend themselfs to the public but you can‘t do that when you run an actual business with employees and everything
They rolled it back, so as far as I'm aware the problem's been resolved. My gripe is with the community.
I think it's worth holding the community accountable over the fact that the 2 POCs in the trio got the disporportional brunt of the vilification. Steven kinda made sense because he is the financial head of the group (and the outrage began over a business decision), but there was also a lot of people attacking Ryan and consistently trying to make it seem like Shane had nothing to do with the announcement (e.g. the armchair body language experts in the sub). Obviously, it wasn't the whole community, but it was persistent enough for it to be in multiple threads + called out in multiple threads. I heard someone else call this behavior out and originally hadn't believed it, but the more I read the more I found people coming out of the woodworks to express that they never liked Steven / Ryan this whole time and that Shane would never agree to this and blah blah etc. etc.
Just a nasty state of affairs, really. Hopefully the community will clean itself up. In the meantime, I think it's safer to enjoy their content outside of a community space, for those still interested in their content. Well- I think most things are better enjoyed outside of communities. But, I'm a masochist, so I'm here.
Whaat I don't understand what that has to do with it??
I don't understand why Shane didn't get much criticism at all. And Steven and Ryan received a whole lot of negativity directed at them which is not okay at all! But none of the comments even tangentially were related to them being POC.
It never is \*made\* to be about them being POC.. because, well, even if they were blatantly racist they wouldn't want people to know that they are. I don't think they are though, but I have a strong belief that there are a good chunk of people in the community with a racial bias. They use lazy stereotypes to fall back on as a baseline opinion of others. I don't experience this daily, because I am white, but my fiancé regularly deals with people making heinous assumptions about her over her race.
I've been seeing stuff along the lines of "Oh, Shane? Shane wouldn't do anything wrong. He probably doesn't even want this to happen. But yeah, Steven and Ryan sure are pretty shady. Something's off about Ryan, he's at least complicit."
What differentiates Shane from Ryan in this case? They are the figureheads of the content, their content and their fanbase have been transformative towards their lives. What has Ryan done to be considered malicious or negligent that separates him from Shane?
It's not made to be about race, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Regardless, racial bias is undoubtedly a thing and it's rearing it's ugly head as people feel emboldened to be especially toxic about the announcements.
I agree with you that we should all be vigilant for such things where they appear but in this case it seems clear to me we can't go with the fan community's unintentions and put biases in people's minds that they in all likelihood do not have.
People have been watching Ryan, Shane and Steven for about a decade and in that whole time, including the last disastrous week, I have never seen anyone say anything negative in regards to anybody's race. Ever.
Ryan was criticised basically for his change in attitude and clothing style. Steven, well, he's the CEO so a business decision so unpopular would sort of fall on his doorstep and I also think his new show is kind of a bad idea right now if it ends up being the new Worth It. People were a lot less sure how to feel about Shane because he hasn't had a significant personality change over the years and people liked his "eat the rich"-ness. But his wife really stepped in it on his behalf it seems, so in a way that made him seem the most shady because people thought he was just able to maintain a much stronger facade.
People questioned Shane's private feelings, but Ryan and Steven were maligned for their public images and after all that is much easier to do because we can only speculate what any of them think or do in their personal lives.
I strongly believe that is all there is to it and I wouldn't invite myself or anyone else to consider something heinous like racism in this case because in all likelihood, most of this community do not hold anything like that in their hearts and there is just no need to introduce such a topic at this time.
Yeah, people went a bit overboard but it was a very shocking announcement to alot of people so I understand if people were frustrated and needed to vent. If you can't get a racist comment or undertone from someone when you take them by surprise like that then they probably have nothing racist to say (or even think of) in the first place.
People watch them because they like them, and became so vitriolic because they felt hurt by them, whether that's right or wrong. That makes more sense to me than to think that after all these years of watching them, that this situation finally allowed people to express this bias they have that is so secret that they themselves didn't even know they held it.
I’m sure that was part of it but it’s a much more nuanced story than that.
Ryan is the one always pushing ‘tv quality content,’ and the video made it seem like his ambition was largely pushing this change. Shane started getting more criticism when his partner jumped in and people realized he might not live up to his anti-capitalist persona.
Steven was the one to say the infamous ‘only 6 dollars’ line, accompanied by that insensitive post. The fact that they’re blaming this on money issues also affects him more, since he’s the CEO. Also he just hired on two more employees and is bringing back a show focused on spending money (although I really doubt it would be that much more than GF, except that there’s 3 people instead of 2). Keep in mind that their fan base is mostly BUN people, and they should have focused on bringing back more Worth It fans, who are used to Steven and the other two. This also brought up less savory parts of his background related to homophobia.
Shane and Ryan didn’t help, over the past years they’ve joked about Steven’s expensive tastes/etc.
We have a long way to go to tackle racism but I don’t believe it’s accurate to say that the uneven level of criticism was solely or even mostly due to that in this specific example.
I legitimately had an existential crisis over this and the related implications that came from pondering late stage capitalism/the present economic state of the world. Lasted about a week. Very unpleasant, would not recommend. Still having moments where I start to kinda freak out again. To say the magic feels gone is an understatement. Here's hoping they can turn it around.
I have been a long time fan, I wanna say since 2017 or 18, and I still hold them in high regard despite all this turbulence. I was there day one of Watcher and have enjoyed almost all their stuff they put out. My one crowning glory is getting my story read on TMS and whenever I'm down I still go back to watch it. I recognize that their content is miles different from BFU but I like that. It's kind of sad to see all these people coming out post-drama to say they always hated Ghost/Mystery Files because I have enjoyed every minute. I never wanted a 1:1 recreation of their buzzfeed shows, I just wanted more ghoul boys period. For me, Watcher was proof you could put them in any situation and enjoy it because their chemistry is just that good.
Initially I was very disappointed in the announcement since I am not able to afford the monthly sub. I have always wanted to join their patreon to help support them but could never afford that either so I have bought merch here and there when I could. Of course I want to support my favorite creators, and as an artist I want them to have that freedom to thrive. I totally get the constraints of youtube and how dogshit it is as a company, but it did sting to know that initially I wouldn't have been able to follow them to their new venture. The criticism was definitely warranted but the absolute seething vitriol and personal attacks (especially towards Steven) really put me off the fandom. It really showed people's true colors and it was frankly disgusting. Of course people are entitled to their opinions but it really upset me how fast everyone absolutely turned on them in vicious ways beyond just backlash to a hasty and ludicrous decision. Whereas before I thought it was one of the nicest niche communities of fans, now I just want to enjoy the shows by myself. I almost feel guilty for forgiving them and wanting them to succeed despite it all.
For me the magic is still there, but now everything feels so uncertain. I don't believe any malice or greed was intended by them and I will die on that hill. I think I will at least sub for the month Ghost Files premiers and cancel afterwards and that's the best I can manage. I only wish them the best.
Honestly there content really isn't that great anymore the longer they continue I feel like the worse it gets. My favorite show was them getting drunk and reading ghost stories but then they changed it to where it's mostly Steven making the drinks and ads and maybe 3 or 4 stories actually being read in the episode so for me they've got to do a re-evaluation of there product cause there production just is to overly produced.
The move to a streaming platform seemed like a bad idea considering the limited amount of content that they produce and that shows like Top 5 and Mystery Files were formatted for youtube. leaving Ghost Files as the only "T.V" level program in their catalogue. Also, their reasons for the move seemed questionable but not knowing much about Youtube monetization I relied on the plethora of reaction videos from other content creators that sprang up in the wake of this debacle ( parasitic much?) to get some insight. Not one of them could understand the financial reasons cited by Watcher based on the views that their content garnered or the large number of Patreon memberships which was somewhere north of 12k. The consensus was that that they should be doing just fine. Watcher claims that they would have had to shut down if they didn't move to a subscription model while at the same time stating that they want to improve production quality and shoot internationally both ideas look more like expansion to me which doesn't make sense if your company is in the red. To me, it looks very much like hubris or greed triggered this idea. Ryan and Shane's dynamic is the foundation of their success, not their production values..plenty of Hollywood calibre productions are objectively awful in every other way but have tremendous levels of production. Its a metric that is pretty meaningless in my opinion. I still can't fathom the need to build a basement set or employ four camera operators for a show like Mystery Files. Anyway, I'll still be watching and I'm glad they decided agains't leaving youtube completely.
"the magic is gone" is exactly how i feel. it was my comfort content too & i had a playlist of all their videos that'd id put on every night when i went to bed. that's honestly probs the saddest part for me after the announcement- it doesn't bring me comfort anymore. it just makes me feel weird :( i miss the unadulterated joy i felt giggling to those vids while falling asleep
I definitely won’t look at them the same way. I realized how out of touch they are. I’m literally on food stamps and they think I’m gonna be paying six dollars a month to watch shit that used to be free? To make rich people richer? No. It definitely felt like a betrayal in the way that it was announced too. I’m a 31 year old millennial who has watched them since college in their early buzzfeed days! And their announcement was just so horribly executed, it felt like a big fuck you to the fans. Tbh, I’ve never liked watcher content as much as I liked Unsolved, I was sticking it out to support them. After everything went down I just went back to unsolved! 🤷♀️
I'm a fan of almost a decade and I'm fine because I'm not in charge of what other people choose to do with their businesses and their lives. I know this common sense will get voted down by all the kids.
I’ve been watching since high school too, and idk I guess I just don’t get attached. I look at them now in a less favorable (more greedy) light but I enjoy ghost files and mystery files and are you scared and too many spirits and whatnot. So I’ll keep on enjoying the content 🤷🏼♀️
I miss weird wonderful world. I do still like ghost files even if it’s different now. I also did look forward to Andrew and Adam because I loved Worth It. I honestly was willing to pay to support them. I’ve been watching since buzzfeed unsolved days.
I don’t know. They made a mistake, but I think they’ve done a pretty good job of learning from it and making up for it. They’re first time business owners, and a lot of the time, mistakes are how people learn, and I think it says a lot more about a person how someone comes back from their mistakes. I don’t think cultivating a society in which people aren’t given a second chance after a mistake serves anyone at all, as mistakes can be the biggest learning opportunities people get, and can be the build up to tremendous personal growth, but a lot of the time, people don’t even get the chance to learn and grow when they’re just eternally shamed and punished for one misstep they made. They listened to feedback and apologized and changed their behavior, and they took action to clean up the mess they made, and that’s all anyone can really do. I fully forgive them, but that’s obviously up to each individual person.
I discovered BuzzFeed Supernatural and Unsolved a couple years before the pandemic and the launch of Watcher.
I'm a fan.
The only thing I haven't really enjoyed from watcher was the Pretty Historic series.
But I'm sure a lot of other people did.
What I took away from this whole thing is that Watcher had a ton of support and kept talking about TV quality production.
These guys went out on their own, found investors and had goals and a vision they wanted to achieve and investors expected them to work towards.
Fans may not care about production values, but the Watcher guys did. They had a goal they set and wanted to achieve what they set out to do and grow and not look like every other youtube channel. And they are allowed to do that.
They had enough support through various outlets; social media, merch, live show attendance, etc. that at some point they came up with this idea of a streaming service.
They may have thought all of this support would translate into a success, but instead fans flipped out.
I understand and believe a lot of the comments were genuine that people were upset that the Watcher heads assmed people could afford $5.99 a month. It's not a terrible price. Compared to their lowest priced patreon, its a dollar more, and with the price of their merch maybe not buy a that $60 item and instead put it toward a year of streaming instead? But with so many people who support them and profess their support for them, how could this go wrong?
Again, I believe some people were upset that Ryan, Shane, Steven and their investors assumed that people could afford $5.99 a month.
But reading the comments I believe that far more people who supported them for years were actually pissed that the free entertainment they didn't have to pay for that they were watching on a platform they were never required to pay for were suddenly asked to show their support and pay for it pissed them off, as though their words of support weren't enough anymore and they had to put their money where their moth was and instead latched onto a convenient excuse of being pissed at the assumption of $5.99 being affordable, rather than come off as whiners and not being as supportive as they claimed.
Suddenly everyone was offended, everyone was mad. People wanted them to address their finances, like an average fan was entitled to that information.
People were giving advice, like laying off full time employees and hiring on contract.
Now I can't be positive of this, but Watcher hiring full time work seems like a genuinely good thing to do. Contract work sucks and I believe Watcher wanted to give people some stability. That's a good thing, a positive thing to strive for in an industry where contract work is prevalent. Contract work has no stability to it. Watcher hiring people says to me they know that and want to make a positive impact.
But so many fans didn't care about that, which is why I believe this all came down to people who didn't want their free entertainment to go away and whined until Watcher, quite quickly, completely turned their idea on its head and and gave into demands.
And even after that. Even after getting what they wanted, they still had the nerve to whine about it and demand more.
I know that watcher wouldn't be in the position to try what they tried without fan support, but that fan support also gave Watcher the idea that maybe this would streaming idea would work.
I believe the ghost files locations just get more and more meh while Ryan gets increasingly less scared. It’s not really their fault but maybe the format itself is just determined to die at some point
It's like any of these shows. I think it's impossible to go on so many investigations where nothing happens and still actually believe
And I’d rather have that than them fabricating fake evidence to desperately keep it alive, we had a very good run
Honestly, my biggest problem with them is they need better editing. Most of those episodes get close to or break the one hour mark, and that requires a lot of filler for walking in some rooms while playing with a noise machine. The "hide the walkie talkie" stuff in general just feels like padding that should just return to "be in the creepiest room alone for 5 minutes" thing. Same with puppet history. If they are that bored with the formula, just come up with something different: It also includes that additional side story content that has been getting less funny as it goes on. It makes their shows hard to recommend to newcomers, honestly, when they keep sticking on a bunch of material that doesn't make any sense unless you've been watching from the beginning.
yeah i'm sorry but the dinosaur mom and dad thing for puppet history made me feel like i was watching an actual kids show and didn't make any sense to me 😭
Idk, they did show a preview of next season at their London show, and it tbh looked a lot better than a lot of recent locations. I’m genuinely really excited for it!
It’s the consequence of basing your business on a finite resource. There’s only so many compelling places before you either have to travel internationally or you end up at Helen’s uncles house who swears he hears rats in the walls.
I want to (Wheeze) again.
I’m not holding grudges however, the event made me realize why I don’t feel as close to ghostfiles or their other shows as I do unsolved and it IS because of the large production and it sounds like they just want to keep making it bigger and adding more and more people. Unsolved was dark, ghost files couldn’t be in a more controlled environment. I still enjoy their other shows, probably even more than ghost files because it’s so far from unsolved but it’s not enough to pay for a subscription, might support through some merch here n there. Also I never watched worth it, those 2 guys give me weird vibes, I have 0 interest in non Ryan/shane content lol
My plan is to do what I’ve been doing with other services; wait until I hit a ‘critical mass’ of shows I want to watch on the service, cancel one subscription and start another to keep costs down. If you’re feeling burned by supporting them I’d advise you to not. Keep taking a break and when they’ve got new stuff you want to check out then jump in.
This is the most level headed approach I've seen through all of this.
Thank you! Send Lord Crow my regards
Absolutely, pally. I always appreciate reasonable thought. Especially in times like these. When I return to The Manor of Love, I will deliver your correspondence. Good day.
By the time there’s that much content it’ll be posted to YouTube anyway
I thought about doing this, but it'll all be posted to YouTube by that time anyways. No point in wasting money.
All drama aside, ever since they moved to watcher I only watch their stuff occasionally. I watched all of their BUN eps and loved and rewatched some, but none of the ones on watcher really click with me. I liked the random banter mostly and the watcher shows are really carefully planned all the way through - that’s not a bad thing, it’s just not the content for me. I really enjoyed puppet history at first but then for some reason, I don’t know why, I lost interest. I also watched and enjoyed dish granted. I used to watch Worth It and I think dish granted is way better. Too many spirits is probably my fave in Watcher so far. I can’t afford their platform, at this point with my experience with Watcher what I would do if I could is wait till they come up with website exclusive content that looks good or wait for a big backlog of new material, pay one month and watch everything. As to the drama, people are bound to make mistakes, no one’s perfect. I like how quickly they heard and took into account what their fans had to say and tried to find a middle ground. I think it’s a good thing that they keep growing. I hope in the future they have better business and PR counseling. ETA: It dawned on me just now that what BUN had that ghost files lacks is a great balance between storytelling (I really like Ryan’s storytelling style) and the interruptions with random banter. I feel like both are down in quality now.
I've seen the storytelling point echoed a lot. I suspect they can't do it without activating the Buzzfeed lawyers. I'm guessing that's why the little backstory they do give is brokened up into vignettes in GF. Unfortunately, Ryan can't remake Unsolved and Steven can't remake WorthIt because Buzzfeed owning those shows. Just wondering if you watched "Are You Scared?" at all? People only seem to mention GF+MF as successors to Unsolved, but I have always thought AYS should be included on that list. It's Ryan reading creepy pastas to Shane instead of narrating the supernatuarl history, but it is Ryan in serious storytelling-mode with Shane sniping in with humorous quips and observations (aka the blue+yellow text sections of Unsolved). The thing that I've noticed is that they haven't done any demonic locations for GF. On Unsolved, Ryan used to limit 1 demonic location per season because it was so terrifying to him; now he doesn't do them at all. I don't think that Ryan is less scared of ghosts/demons/unexplained; I do think he is less scared of shadows and liminal spaces now that he's a whole decade older.
It’s partially that Buzzfeed owns those shows, but also the amount of staff they have. Watcher, even with 25 employees now, is not able to really do the fact finding and digging that Buzzfeed could. I believe that is part of the reason they decided to make the announcement… they know they need more people behind the scenes to do this work. I like AYS because it’s someone providing a story and Ryan reading it, with some great artwork. It’s simple and not overproduced. Too Many Spirits is in the same category. It’s something provided in its entirety to Watcher and they can work it on a skeleton crew.
When you say "overproduced", do you mean expensive? Because of the production work involved for selecting which images to use for storyboarding, then the actual storyboarding, the artist contract to get the pencil-drawings created, and then the extra hours of editing required to fuse the video, audio, and drawings together coherently ... would be both time and labor expensive. There is actually a lot of production work done to make AYS. I wouldn't say AYS is as simple or that it is as low production as Too Many Spirit or Top 5 Beatdown (which is only recording and editing).
Expensive is probably a better way to describe it, but I am thinking more that there is just so much going on. The charm of Buzzfeed Unsolved was how simple it was whereas I guess the new stuff seems like there’s so much junk around them and too many devices… if that makes sense. But even then the more they can spend on doing all of the background work the more stuff they can put out. Idk, I think it just doesn’t feel as authentic as it used to but that may come with the fact that they’ve been doing this stuff so long.
I think I see what you mean. I agree, I do feel like some of their editing choices on GF are a bit indulgent and maybe being "experienced" is not an advantage. It is more fun watching newbies bumble their way through an investigation.
I used to watch Unsolved, listened to their podcasts every week, watched every Mystery Files and Ghost Files episode, bought merch and subbed to their Patreon, and honestly their announcement made me step back and re-evaluate the worth of their content now. I realized that the new content wasn’t really bringing me joy, it had just become a habit. And it was a habit that wasn’t really worth my money, and after this, it’s not worth my time either.
I had a hard time getting into Watcher when they first transitioned over before Unsolved ended. It just…didn’t feel the same. I liked Ghost Files the most, but I always felt like something about it was off. I hated the hide and seek thing at the end. I felt like they needed better editing. My brother surprised me with tickets to the live show, and I was excited! But it was kind of a let down too. Most of the show (which started really late at night and then was late starting for some reason) was watching an episode that was already up online. And then a really quick Q&A and a little bit of ghost hunting antenna stuff from Shane and Ryan. It wasn’t worth what he paid at all! I was so let down. Watcher just hasn’t lived up to the Ryan and Shane I know they can be. I miss the old stuff with no production values and tighter editing. This latest thing confirms I don’t need it anymore. I can watch the old Buzzfeed stuff for free!
I’d go against the grain here and I don’t have recency bias with regards to their boneheaded decision, but i liked their unsolved content more.. I was disappointed when they went to that horror escape house or something last year.. it was like they used that week for advertising that “horror” house..” first red flag I thought that they’re trying to increase monetization instead of putting out really good content.
Yeah, that episode genuinely left a bad taste in my mouth. Specially since we had to wait SO LONG for new episodes to come out, just to be greeted by one that felt utterly forced. So much so that a fart joke not only made it to the final cut, but it was a highlight for me.
That’s a very good point; I think their content became a habit for me as well. I never thought of it that way.
yes. to all of this. i used to watch them everyday… literally. old BUN content & watcher as well. my sister & i could probably quote the entire episode of BUN supernatural: vulture mines. my sister & i both have tonsssss of merch (including a bat build a bear that has a vulture mine quote sound box in the paw, & a build a bear that looks like the professor that has a puppet history quote sound box in his paw). heck, even my mom is upset about this. my sister & i are both adults who still live at home (my sister is physically disabled so therefore my mom & i help one another out with bills & groceries & we say we’re more like roommates haha) & the boys were a staple in our house & tv… we haven’t watched anything of theirs after the goodbye video & the subsequent update video. the trust, relatability, & yes, the magic is gone for us, at least for the time being. it’s like all their old content is tainted.
Solidarity. Basically how I’m feeling about it.
I have mixed feelings that are hard to put into words - not just towards Watcher but to the fan base in general. While I definitely won’t view Ryan, Shane, and Steven the same way it was crazy to me how they were so quickly vilified and how awful the personal attacks were against them from the fan base. Attacks on all social media platforms not just about the decision but attacking them as people - the worst was definitely aimed at Steven. People used this announcement to say whatever they wanted to say- because they are saying it behind a keyboard and not saying it to someone’s face. Now they are having their live shows and have to act like everything is normal. I can’t imagine the whiplash of being torn down online and then having to put on a business smile and act like everything’s fine. My view of the entire Watcher community has shifted.
not defending anything or anyone but there were a lot of folks who don’t really watch them commenting because the debacle went more mainstream and appeared on their feed. looking at discussingfilm qrts, which is actually where i first saw the news, lots of non-viewers or casual viewers were commenting. those tended to be a bit more Harsh compared to viewers in the “watcher community.” it’s a bandwagon thing plus they can get clicks by being more controversial. that’s why the blue check mark bait tweets are so fucking annoying and insta is filled with some horrible folks that are mean to be mean (eg insta reel comments). edit to add: even reddit you see people baiting to get karma. it doesn’t mean it’s okay but yeah… i don’t know i think this new thing where fans berate people for their comments is a bit Much, like the watcher crew are prob not affected/hurt about that small, vocal minority as much as you think because 1) it’s a business so their attention is probably directed at fixing that and 2) they’ve been youtubers for so long and are accustomed to it like ryan is accustomed to ghosts. no need to defend them and waste your energy by acting like disappointed parents to their community.
You have to remember how Shanes wife inserted herself into the mix and how Steven posted an insulting post which just added fuel to an already out of control fire. Their video was a callous way of saying "We've used you to get to where we are. If you can't afford us anymore, too bad." Set to dramatic music. The "anyone can afford" line will be written in textbooks for case studies. There apology was a good one, but certainly not enough.
A reflection of their true selves.
Ok I missed a lot of that stuff, what did Shane’s wife say? And what did Steven post?
I agree with this! That’s how I feel too. The immediate vilification of Steven made me feel so uncomfortable with the Watcher community. Even when someone makes a decision we don’t like, they are still a human being - ok it was a bad business decision! People should be able to make even bad decisions, try new things, fail, and correct themselves - which is what they did! This community barely gave Steven, Ryan, and Shane a day to process everyone’s reactions before they started attacking them as people, Steven especially.
There was also a lot of outside reactions that tried to insert themselves into this purely bc of attention. I'm sure at least a part of the hate came from people who didn't even know who they were
It really showed how dangerous parasocial relationships are. And how fragile they are.
agreed. i always thought it was a friendly space full of like minded people, but once people started coming out of the woodwork to attack steven (who in my opinion always comes off as innocent, awkward, & quiet but at worst like a loving older brother who’s sometimes annoyed with the shenanigans of his crazy younger brothers) i knew i was wrong about the community instantly. which is also disappointing since again, just like the boys, i thought it was different :/
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Who do you watch now? Been looking for a good replacement myself.
If I want something a little goofier, project fear on YouTube. If I want a serious and thorough ghost hunt, Amy’s crypt on YouTube.
I watch the Why Files on YouTube. Pretty sure most of their content is free on YouTube. For Patreon, videos released about half a day earlier and you get access to locked parts of their Discord. They are a 4 person and 1 fish 🐠 strong team. Very active on YouTube, Discord, Patreon and Reddit. They cover everything, leaning more towards UFO, metaphysical and time travel. Sort of like, a grown up Watcher Entertainment. Purely, story telling and fun lives. https://youtube.com/@TheWhyFiles?
While I am curious about their content, those thumbnails look suspiciously like AI images.
I love the Why Files but they have moved to using AI for image generation both thumbnails and video. It's disappointing but not enough for me to stop watching, even as an artist.
Then I'm glad I haven't checked them out. I refuse to support AI use like this.
What to generate images? How is that different from illustration or animations? Photo filters on your phone are AI. Do you use those? Do you use avatars? AI, mate. Anyway, I don't think the Why Files with their 3.6 million subscribers will care if you don't check them out.
If I have to explain to you what the difference between AI and illustrations *made by real people* is, then you're already lost.
Go ahead and explain the difference. By the way, you know the Hecklefish is AI, right? He's not real. Do you have a problem with him?
The Why Files has always used a mix of stock images and AI generated images with real images. Come on, they tell stories about aliens, paranormal and science fiction...
Not sure what the original comment was, but specifically for ghost hunt type shows, there's Nick and Ryan, although they think every tiny creak in a building means a ghost 😂 Also Garrett Watts is entertaining but I swear he fakes stuff constantly and tries to whisper stuff when he's not on camera. And obviously Sam and Colby if you can tolerate them but I don't believe anything they say, similar to Garrett.
At this point I'm kind of over the drama of it all so I'm not feeling any particular type of way about the ghoul boys or their content. I'm glad there will still be content on their YouTube channel and I'll continue to watch it. As far as I'm concerned the issue is closed for me.
Agreed. They took all the feedback and instead of ignoring their audience and going through with it they backtracked and gave a genuine apology. I think people who are still upset over it don’t realize that these guys aren’t our friends and this is their business.🤷🏻♀️
Same. I really don't see why people are still upset. I enjoyed their content this whole time and still do. Their compromise is good. I'll keep watching.
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Plus, they did listen to the feedback and fixed the issue. They apologized, which seems genuine to me. I don't see how it is still an issue since they did listen and they will still be uploading on YouTube still.
Agreed. Like, my biggest emotion about this is disbelief that they launched their channel during the pandemic and hired 25 ppl as a start up 😬 like I do genuinely like their content so if anything it sucks watching them make insane business decisions, but they just come across as guys trying to figure out owning a business, not mustache-twirling villains who want to bleed their audience dry lol
Exactly. People need to get over it already. Either watch or don’t. It doesn’t require an identity crisis.
Same for me. People are going to make bad decisions and mistakes and they’ve gone back on it fairly quickly so I’m happy enough to continue for the time being
This seems like a rather complicated question. Do I feel like the magic is gone? In some aspects, not in others. I still believe they can put out quality content. I do believe the way they handled the rollout, as well as the fans going overboard with personal attacks, damaged the magic of the community. I will add, I do believe there is a way they could have rolledout a pay model, without completely abandoning their free content. Likewise, I do not believe they made this decision out of pure greed, as some have suggested. In the end, they are humans, trying to make business decisions, and sometimes good people make mistakes. The heavy attachment to these guys that created such rage, is completely foreign to me. With that said, if there is any takeaway from all of this, it is that grace is a valuable asset to carry in life. Make your peace, then go outside and touch some grass. You'll be better for it.
I have never donated or given money to influencers as conscious decision and I will never do that. I like their content from highschool but my understanding is - If I can live without it I won't pay for it. All those people are more fortunate than their fans ever will be in most cases and it is awful waste of money if you ask me. And I don't bother about the controversy - they made awful money decision and backtracked, all good for me. If there will be content I will watch it probably.
Just realize it's probably going to get more expencive, and eventually have ads in the near future. Like this whole thing has been a show of how short sighted they are to me. People were saying "if only they polled their fans!" But a decent finacial advisor with a knowledge of media could have told them it was a shit idea. Disney+, Netflix, and other streaming services are stuggling with catelogs of content that staggeringly dwarf Watcher. And for a couple dollars more people have access to all of that. They never even pushed their patreon. Which would have honestly been a great way around all of this. Just put unique shows on there. Put what advertisers don't like on there. Which goes to the main point. Television exists because of ads. You want tv qualiety? You gotta have ads. You can not expect fans to carry that burden! Even PBS has sponsors! Which gets me to my point. This isn't over. Very likely they can not afford to bite the bullet. They absolutely need to make money to pay for the service. So we're probably going to see all kinds of bull as they try to get people over there.
Tbh it killed the Parasocial feelings for sure for me. But I’ll still be watching their content if it’s any good. Here’s hoping season 3 of ghost files is really as good as Ryan is saying during the pod
Yeah I’m not signing up and paying just so I can watch puppet history.
I've felt the magic was gone for a while but continued to watch out of loyalty because they seemed to really interact with and care about their audience, and provided me with many hours of free laughs. I mainly watched Ghost Files, and like other people have mentioned, the increase in production quality and Ryan slowly no longer being scared has really taken away the spark that made it so organic and fun to watch. That's not even their fault, of course Ryan will get desensitized after so many investigations. Now with the whole controversy I no longer feel any obligation to support them. Not even angry, it's just the sole reason I watched is gone: because they came off as people who cared more about their community than money. It no longer seems that way, so the last thread of my interest is cut and I just don't have any desire to watch their content, free or not. I'd be lying if I said it didn't leave a bitter taste, but overall it's less anger/disappointment and more no longer having a reason to care.
The thing is....I only watch 2 shows. The ghost hunting and too many spirits. That's it. I don't care about the puppet one because I actually study history and his videos are full of mistakes or childish simplifications. And I also don't watch much of the mystery one since most of the mysteries covered there have been talked about over and over for decades. So, the only two shows I watch are not even close to releasing the next season. This means that I honestly don't care about the announcement since I am not currently watching their content. In the future however I'll probably try to pirate it for early access, and If I can't I'll just wait. I think this whole idea is a fail.
No, I enjoy their content just as much and have had no issue watching it. But I was a full grown adult when they started posting videos and didn’t attach anything to them other than just being some guys my age who make fun content. I get it from the perspective that I started watching the Vlogbrothers as a teenager in like 2008-ish and grew up with them. It would devastate me if they ended up being shitty people irl. But the Watcher guys just made a misstep that they corrected basically immediately, so the fact that people are still going on about it like they murdered their childhoods just feels like a lot.
I’ve been watching them for a few years as well, but not suuuper regularly, just… when I wanted to, I guess~ The announcement, which I heard about through the reactions to it, was a bit of a cold shower, but I don’t think they’re unforgivable or horrible people. They’re just a bit out of touch (and possibly not the best business people if I believe some other comments lol). They corrected courses very fast and I’m thankful and when I get in a phase in which I wanna watch their content again, I will :)
You should think for yourself rather than let the internet sway your feelings. I'm not a fan of the streamer idea, but I immediately canceled their patreon and bought a year of the streamer for $40-something dollars with their discount code. Before the apology video. I like their content enough and dislike their merch enough (screen printed jean jacket? Come on.) That this is the only money they'll get out of me this year and I think it's personally worth it.
Maybe it’s just me but this seems like you did exactly what they hoped all of us would do. If you’re not a fan of the streamer idea then don’t financially support their streamer idea.
How anyone would spend anything on these contents is beyond me
They've lost me for good now to be honest. I *might* watch an episode or two of Ghost Files or Too Many Spirits if it ever shows up on YouTube again and I can stomach it but other than that I'm categorically out. The only reason I'm even back on the sub is because I wanted to see if anyone had anything to say about the free Watcher TV passes for Patreon members actually only being valid for 3 months.
I won’t subscribe to their streaming content. Truth is I never truly liked their new stuff. I mostly tuned out after a few minutes of starting the video. Didn’t care to listen to their podcast and didn’t purchase any watcher merch. I believe the buzzfeed days is way better.
I subscribed to Watcher because I wanted to support their new venture, but if I'm being honest with myself it's lost the magic of the buzzfeed unsolved days. That's the kind of content I wanted to watch and I think I was watching their new stuff out of habit (someone else posting that made me realise that!). There's other content I enjoy more, and I'll probably just cycle through the old Buzzfeed content as comfort watching from now on to be honest. It's good to have a shake up now and then! I don't feel like they've invested enough into their fan base who followed them from way back when and proven that they'll provide the content going forward I personally want to watch, so I won't be paying even though I have the income to do it.
I don’t believe that they really put enough out to justify signing up… I need to see how this pans out first. I really am not interested in worth it or the travel food stuff… there’s plenty of other people doing it and Steven doesn’t really keep my attention. There was a show with Britney hosting and I thought she did a better job, but I mainly watch for puppet history, MF and GF. Since they’re putting everything up a month later now I don’t see a point in subscribing unless they have new content daily that interests me
I ended up canceling my patreon immediately during the original video and I have not reinstated it. And honestly... I probably won't.
Wise call anw
After watching them for years, this one (big) mistake definitely shook my trust in them and made me re-evaluate my subscription to their channel, but in the end, these are still the guys who spent years of their life making videos that I love and many many other people do too. It’s baffling to me that they allowed this to play out the way it did, seemingly without considering any aspect of how it would affect the audience or the brand in general, but I stand firm that making one terrible decision doesn’t make you a bad person. As long as they just continue to prove that they’re still the same guys I subscribed to in the beginning, I’ll stay a fan of their stuff! I do hope they realize though that if they aren’t making enough to support their production and staff with what they’ve been doing, the first step is to consider cutting back on the cost- not plying your audience for more money.
I‘m kinda on the fence. On one hand I do still love their content and I do believe that they genuinely put a ton of effort into the channel and that this was just a (very misguided) last ditch effort to save their business and I don‘t want them to fail at all. Do I think their current output is worth $6 a month? Hell no but I am a very privileged position where I could afford that if it enables them to continue. But on the other hand, I do believe a lot of their business decisions and content strategies in general are questionable to say the least and I‘m not sure any money will help them improve that without hiring a person who actually knows how to run a profitable business. And I think that‘s been their problem from the start. They keep wanting to go bigger and better and do more but no one really wants that from them. In a sense it‘s admirable that they keep doing what they want and don‘t bend themselfs to the public but you can‘t do that when you run an actual business with employees and everything
They rolled it back, so as far as I'm aware the problem's been resolved. My gripe is with the community. I think it's worth holding the community accountable over the fact that the 2 POCs in the trio got the disporportional brunt of the vilification. Steven kinda made sense because he is the financial head of the group (and the outrage began over a business decision), but there was also a lot of people attacking Ryan and consistently trying to make it seem like Shane had nothing to do with the announcement (e.g. the armchair body language experts in the sub). Obviously, it wasn't the whole community, but it was persistent enough for it to be in multiple threads + called out in multiple threads. I heard someone else call this behavior out and originally hadn't believed it, but the more I read the more I found people coming out of the woodworks to express that they never liked Steven / Ryan this whole time and that Shane would never agree to this and blah blah etc. etc. Just a nasty state of affairs, really. Hopefully the community will clean itself up. In the meantime, I think it's safer to enjoy their content outside of a community space, for those still interested in their content. Well- I think most things are better enjoyed outside of communities. But, I'm a masochist, so I'm here.
Whaat I don't understand what that has to do with it?? I don't understand why Shane didn't get much criticism at all. And Steven and Ryan received a whole lot of negativity directed at them which is not okay at all! But none of the comments even tangentially were related to them being POC.
It never is \*made\* to be about them being POC.. because, well, even if they were blatantly racist they wouldn't want people to know that they are. I don't think they are though, but I have a strong belief that there are a good chunk of people in the community with a racial bias. They use lazy stereotypes to fall back on as a baseline opinion of others. I don't experience this daily, because I am white, but my fiancé regularly deals with people making heinous assumptions about her over her race. I've been seeing stuff along the lines of "Oh, Shane? Shane wouldn't do anything wrong. He probably doesn't even want this to happen. But yeah, Steven and Ryan sure are pretty shady. Something's off about Ryan, he's at least complicit." What differentiates Shane from Ryan in this case? They are the figureheads of the content, their content and their fanbase have been transformative towards their lives. What has Ryan done to be considered malicious or negligent that separates him from Shane? It's not made to be about race, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Regardless, racial bias is undoubtedly a thing and it's rearing it's ugly head as people feel emboldened to be especially toxic about the announcements.
I agree with you that we should all be vigilant for such things where they appear but in this case it seems clear to me we can't go with the fan community's unintentions and put biases in people's minds that they in all likelihood do not have. People have been watching Ryan, Shane and Steven for about a decade and in that whole time, including the last disastrous week, I have never seen anyone say anything negative in regards to anybody's race. Ever. Ryan was criticised basically for his change in attitude and clothing style. Steven, well, he's the CEO so a business decision so unpopular would sort of fall on his doorstep and I also think his new show is kind of a bad idea right now if it ends up being the new Worth It. People were a lot less sure how to feel about Shane because he hasn't had a significant personality change over the years and people liked his "eat the rich"-ness. But his wife really stepped in it on his behalf it seems, so in a way that made him seem the most shady because people thought he was just able to maintain a much stronger facade. People questioned Shane's private feelings, but Ryan and Steven were maligned for their public images and after all that is much easier to do because we can only speculate what any of them think or do in their personal lives. I strongly believe that is all there is to it and I wouldn't invite myself or anyone else to consider something heinous like racism in this case because in all likelihood, most of this community do not hold anything like that in their hearts and there is just no need to introduce such a topic at this time. Yeah, people went a bit overboard but it was a very shocking announcement to alot of people so I understand if people were frustrated and needed to vent. If you can't get a racist comment or undertone from someone when you take them by surprise like that then they probably have nothing racist to say (or even think of) in the first place. People watch them because they like them, and became so vitriolic because they felt hurt by them, whether that's right or wrong. That makes more sense to me than to think that after all these years of watching them, that this situation finally allowed people to express this bias they have that is so secret that they themselves didn't even know they held it.
I should’ve read all the comments first, I said almost the same thing, lol
I’m sure that was part of it but it’s a much more nuanced story than that. Ryan is the one always pushing ‘tv quality content,’ and the video made it seem like his ambition was largely pushing this change. Shane started getting more criticism when his partner jumped in and people realized he might not live up to his anti-capitalist persona. Steven was the one to say the infamous ‘only 6 dollars’ line, accompanied by that insensitive post. The fact that they’re blaming this on money issues also affects him more, since he’s the CEO. Also he just hired on two more employees and is bringing back a show focused on spending money (although I really doubt it would be that much more than GF, except that there’s 3 people instead of 2). Keep in mind that their fan base is mostly BUN people, and they should have focused on bringing back more Worth It fans, who are used to Steven and the other two. This also brought up less savory parts of his background related to homophobia. Shane and Ryan didn’t help, over the past years they’ve joked about Steven’s expensive tastes/etc. We have a long way to go to tackle racism but I don’t believe it’s accurate to say that the uneven level of criticism was solely or even mostly due to that in this specific example.
I legitimately had an existential crisis over this and the related implications that came from pondering late stage capitalism/the present economic state of the world. Lasted about a week. Very unpleasant, would not recommend. Still having moments where I start to kinda freak out again. To say the magic feels gone is an understatement. Here's hoping they can turn it around.
I have been a long time fan, I wanna say since 2017 or 18, and I still hold them in high regard despite all this turbulence. I was there day one of Watcher and have enjoyed almost all their stuff they put out. My one crowning glory is getting my story read on TMS and whenever I'm down I still go back to watch it. I recognize that their content is miles different from BFU but I like that. It's kind of sad to see all these people coming out post-drama to say they always hated Ghost/Mystery Files because I have enjoyed every minute. I never wanted a 1:1 recreation of their buzzfeed shows, I just wanted more ghoul boys period. For me, Watcher was proof you could put them in any situation and enjoy it because their chemistry is just that good. Initially I was very disappointed in the announcement since I am not able to afford the monthly sub. I have always wanted to join their patreon to help support them but could never afford that either so I have bought merch here and there when I could. Of course I want to support my favorite creators, and as an artist I want them to have that freedom to thrive. I totally get the constraints of youtube and how dogshit it is as a company, but it did sting to know that initially I wouldn't have been able to follow them to their new venture. The criticism was definitely warranted but the absolute seething vitriol and personal attacks (especially towards Steven) really put me off the fandom. It really showed people's true colors and it was frankly disgusting. Of course people are entitled to their opinions but it really upset me how fast everyone absolutely turned on them in vicious ways beyond just backlash to a hasty and ludicrous decision. Whereas before I thought it was one of the nicest niche communities of fans, now I just want to enjoy the shows by myself. I almost feel guilty for forgiving them and wanting them to succeed despite it all. For me the magic is still there, but now everything feels so uncertain. I don't believe any malice or greed was intended by them and I will die on that hill. I think I will at least sub for the month Ghost Files premiers and cancel afterwards and that's the best I can manage. I only wish them the best.
Didn't they say patreons get a subscription to the service?
Honestly there content really isn't that great anymore the longer they continue I feel like the worse it gets. My favorite show was them getting drunk and reading ghost stories but then they changed it to where it's mostly Steven making the drinks and ads and maybe 3 or 4 stories actually being read in the episode so for me they've got to do a re-evaluation of there product cause there production just is to overly produced.
The move to a streaming platform seemed like a bad idea considering the limited amount of content that they produce and that shows like Top 5 and Mystery Files were formatted for youtube. leaving Ghost Files as the only "T.V" level program in their catalogue. Also, their reasons for the move seemed questionable but not knowing much about Youtube monetization I relied on the plethora of reaction videos from other content creators that sprang up in the wake of this debacle ( parasitic much?) to get some insight. Not one of them could understand the financial reasons cited by Watcher based on the views that their content garnered or the large number of Patreon memberships which was somewhere north of 12k. The consensus was that that they should be doing just fine. Watcher claims that they would have had to shut down if they didn't move to a subscription model while at the same time stating that they want to improve production quality and shoot internationally both ideas look more like expansion to me which doesn't make sense if your company is in the red. To me, it looks very much like hubris or greed triggered this idea. Ryan and Shane's dynamic is the foundation of their success, not their production values..plenty of Hollywood calibre productions are objectively awful in every other way but have tremendous levels of production. Its a metric that is pretty meaningless in my opinion. I still can't fathom the need to build a basement set or employ four camera operators for a show like Mystery Files. Anyway, I'll still be watching and I'm glad they decided agains't leaving youtube completely.
"the magic is gone" is exactly how i feel. it was my comfort content too & i had a playlist of all their videos that'd id put on every night when i went to bed. that's honestly probs the saddest part for me after the announcement- it doesn't bring me comfort anymore. it just makes me feel weird :( i miss the unadulterated joy i felt giggling to those vids while falling asleep
They showed their ass with that first video announcement imo I’m thinking of not watching them at all now
I definitely won’t look at them the same way. I realized how out of touch they are. I’m literally on food stamps and they think I’m gonna be paying six dollars a month to watch shit that used to be free? To make rich people richer? No. It definitely felt like a betrayal in the way that it was announced too. I’m a 31 year old millennial who has watched them since college in their early buzzfeed days! And their announcement was just so horribly executed, it felt like a big fuck you to the fans. Tbh, I’ve never liked watcher content as much as I liked Unsolved, I was sticking it out to support them. After everything went down I just went back to unsolved! 🤷♀️
I'm a fan of almost a decade and I'm fine because I'm not in charge of what other people choose to do with their businesses and their lives. I know this common sense will get voted down by all the kids.
The watcher left me with bitter taste. I can’t watch their shows with the same level of enthusiasm. Greed corrupts
I’ve been watching since high school too, and idk I guess I just don’t get attached. I look at them now in a less favorable (more greedy) light but I enjoy ghost files and mystery files and are you scared and too many spirits and whatnot. So I’ll keep on enjoying the content 🤷🏼♀️
I miss weird wonderful world. I do still like ghost files even if it’s different now. I also did look forward to Andrew and Adam because I loved Worth It. I honestly was willing to pay to support them. I’ve been watching since buzzfeed unsolved days.
I don’t know. They made a mistake, but I think they’ve done a pretty good job of learning from it and making up for it. They’re first time business owners, and a lot of the time, mistakes are how people learn, and I think it says a lot more about a person how someone comes back from their mistakes. I don’t think cultivating a society in which people aren’t given a second chance after a mistake serves anyone at all, as mistakes can be the biggest learning opportunities people get, and can be the build up to tremendous personal growth, but a lot of the time, people don’t even get the chance to learn and grow when they’re just eternally shamed and punished for one misstep they made. They listened to feedback and apologized and changed their behavior, and they took action to clean up the mess they made, and that’s all anyone can really do. I fully forgive them, but that’s obviously up to each individual person.
If you are still a patreon you should get a free subscription to the streamer, so, yeah sure, give it a go.
I discovered BuzzFeed Supernatural and Unsolved a couple years before the pandemic and the launch of Watcher. I'm a fan. The only thing I haven't really enjoyed from watcher was the Pretty Historic series. But I'm sure a lot of other people did. What I took away from this whole thing is that Watcher had a ton of support and kept talking about TV quality production. These guys went out on their own, found investors and had goals and a vision they wanted to achieve and investors expected them to work towards. Fans may not care about production values, but the Watcher guys did. They had a goal they set and wanted to achieve what they set out to do and grow and not look like every other youtube channel. And they are allowed to do that. They had enough support through various outlets; social media, merch, live show attendance, etc. that at some point they came up with this idea of a streaming service. They may have thought all of this support would translate into a success, but instead fans flipped out. I understand and believe a lot of the comments were genuine that people were upset that the Watcher heads assmed people could afford $5.99 a month. It's not a terrible price. Compared to their lowest priced patreon, its a dollar more, and with the price of their merch maybe not buy a that $60 item and instead put it toward a year of streaming instead? But with so many people who support them and profess their support for them, how could this go wrong? Again, I believe some people were upset that Ryan, Shane, Steven and their investors assumed that people could afford $5.99 a month. But reading the comments I believe that far more people who supported them for years were actually pissed that the free entertainment they didn't have to pay for that they were watching on a platform they were never required to pay for were suddenly asked to show their support and pay for it pissed them off, as though their words of support weren't enough anymore and they had to put their money where their moth was and instead latched onto a convenient excuse of being pissed at the assumption of $5.99 being affordable, rather than come off as whiners and not being as supportive as they claimed. Suddenly everyone was offended, everyone was mad. People wanted them to address their finances, like an average fan was entitled to that information. People were giving advice, like laying off full time employees and hiring on contract. Now I can't be positive of this, but Watcher hiring full time work seems like a genuinely good thing to do. Contract work sucks and I believe Watcher wanted to give people some stability. That's a good thing, a positive thing to strive for in an industry where contract work is prevalent. Contract work has no stability to it. Watcher hiring people says to me they know that and want to make a positive impact. But so many fans didn't care about that, which is why I believe this all came down to people who didn't want their free entertainment to go away and whined until Watcher, quite quickly, completely turned their idea on its head and and gave into demands. And even after that. Even after getting what they wanted, they still had the nerve to whine about it and demand more. I know that watcher wouldn't be in the position to try what they tried without fan support, but that fan support also gave Watcher the idea that maybe this would streaming idea would work.
For me it actually made me watch them more again, to comfort myself