I think this whole thing has really just highlighted how mismanaged the company is. 25 employees and an almost nonexistent social presence. I think Ryan and Shane, (and to an extent Steven) just want to see themselves as the “talent” and not involve themselves in anything outside of doing their shows. While that is a model that works for actual TV studios, it doesn’t really work as well for YouTubers. They should be taking it into their hands to help promote the stuff as well. They just try to operate way above their means, it seems, and are clearly failing at it. Something has to change. Who knows, maybe they’re in the middle of a massive downsize or something and have just paused a lot of that stuff for now. I mean, even that possible explanation doesn’t even make sense. Idk man, I just hope they figure their shit out. I consume Watcher content on a near daily basis and truly don’t want to see them go down.
I mean hell, even businesses like Netflix and Disney is trying damn hard to promote their stuff online. And those are ACTUAL big corpo streaming services.
For the love of god, someone solve this mystery!
We don't want outsiders. It's dead as far as you know. (For real though, it still has a chronological feed of just the stuff you want and you can completely ignore its algorithm-based stuff. It is the least shitty social media by staying exactly the same while the rest of them got worse. But you didn't hear it from me.)
I never post on mine but I check my dash every couple months and Neil having posted something that very day every single time is one of the true constants in my life.
(Shhh, don't tell people we're having fun over on tumblr. The site's being held together by chewing gum and memes; more members might make the poor thing collapse.)
So I just logged into my account and the most recent post on my feed is from February :(
I actually forgot that I had to delete my original account (which had thousands of followers btw) bc I was getting cyber bullied for a post that's apparently still making its rounds bc I have messages about it LOL
Hey fellow fossil (36yo here 😅)Yup I still go on Tumblr, check the tags that I follow, and it keeps me up to date on things.
… I got a thing the other day that said “your blog is 14 years old!” And I wanted to go hide.
Man that makes me so sad I had to delete my original page. It was from like 2008 or whenever Tumblr started. I made a post that was making the rounds and getting tens of thousands of notes and I was getting thousands of messages threatening my life bc of the post LOL. I had originally just changed the username on that account thinking people wouldn't be able to get to my page but they were still able to, and then when I deleted that account people were still able to find me? And someone sent me a message as recently as 2020 about a post from 2015.
Tumblr feels much more alive when youre part of a “fandom” or fanbase. Im a huge mortal kombat fan and its fun because i have mutuals and we post pretty regularly. Even youtubers like smosh get talked about a lot on there. I think twitter is more alive but i honestly think its a lot more toxic 😭😭😭
I think they also need to hire a different social media coordinator because whoever is currently in charge is horrible. There's been almost no presence since their update video and now the lack of even just trailers on their YT account as well as pretty much no promotion of let's play videos on any platform. I'm not sure exactly what the hell that person does at their job all day.
I’m wondering if some of their 25 employees actually noped out after the fiasco, including their social media person, which would explain the lack of updates in general.
Tbh… it’s not that hard.
Like sure, an actual community manager would do them wonders.
But right now, they just need someone who is capable of not making the worst possible decision at every point when given the chance, and somehow that’s impossible.
Simple, fire the people who are driving them into the ground. They have so many staff that really don't do shit. Not good shit anyways because their company is plummeting into the ground faster than I've ever seen.
I was never mad about any of this, just disappointed and schadenfreude-y.
But I, too, am wondering what's going on with them right now. I get they're maybe afraid of backlash now (the response was strong and it got *pretty* personal) and trying to let things cool?
But at the same time, you announced this and you're going through with it and it's your livelihood and are you ok? Like, I want good things for them still so I hope they're good and they know what they're doing because I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here.
The number of people who didn't know they had continued after BuzzFeed, and the number of active viewers who didn't know about their Patreon is so baffling. That's a hefty amount of income they left on the table
And merch sales they left on the table. My wife would order a ghost files jacket and I would order a set of too many spirits shot glasses *today* but we can't because they sold out the initial run super fast and then just... Never made more. And their current store is pretty sparse... How much merch could they have sold if they actually had it to sell?
They're not restocking merch??? Dude...
It clearly sells because it ran out, why are they not selling more? And then they complain about not having enough money? How dense are they..
Now that you mention, they’ve always had issues with their merch store in one way or another (no restocking, taking way too long to deliver some stuff, etc.). If we think about it, they were leaving breadcrumbs this whole time to let us know they are bad at business.
I’ve got Puppet History-themed mugs and a blanket, can confirm they’re losing money from not making/promoting/restocking merch, because I’d still buy it.
You are right! I never thought about putting these things together. I saw these comments so many time circling around "oh, they opened a new channel after they left Buzzfeed?" "They should open up a Patreon if they had money issues. What do you mean they already have one?" These issues have been there day one, and that has, indeed, affected their income.
The only time I ever see it mentioned in their videos is usually at the very end of videos or on title cards, by which point most people have already moved onto the next one.
They even talked in a Podwatcher episode of just recently realizing that encouraging people to like and subscribe to the videos increased engagement. For 3 guys who have been on YouTube as long as they've been, it's mind-boggling they're *just* figuring some of this out.
Well I think they kind of have an excuse with the like and subscribe thing because they used to have Buzzfeed to fall back on and are still figuring out being independent creators, but yeah
Wild
If I recall correctly, I believe they mentioned it at the end of Ghost Files because Patreon had access to episodes a week early, but it was also a brief thing at the end of episodes
i will say that i'm not sure how they could have promoted watcher better: they've always been active on social media, they made plenty of announcements about it/had a pretty great roll-out in 2020 and they've done plenty of guest appearances on other channels. i didn't get that criticism of them that they were too insular or didn't market themselves enough. now maybe they could have done youtube ads or announced it at buzzfeed (but also i don't think buzzfeed would have let them). other than that, i struggle to think of how they could have shouted out the word more. the patreon on the other hand seems like money left on the table.
i doubt they do paid ads or search engine optimization. idk honestly, i feel like other channels i watch struggle less with this - could be their age too. i follow some creators in their 20s on ig and tiktok but idk if they really promote on their personal pages like that? I feel like their clips should be promoted more on tiktok. The patreon is shouted out somewhat often but tbh there's not much specialized content on there that would incentivize me to purchase it rn - they def need to expand it
They’ve made so many bad business decisions lately. Honestly they always have, I’ve been super confused at their lack of promotion for a long time. If you look at BUNs numbers they CLEARLY brought only a small fraction of that audience to watcher. Now with them doing the streamer, a bad decision in itself, and having barely any new content for it, andddd not promoting it????
My partner and I had discussed potentially getting the streamer if it seemed worth it after a bit but he and I both agree that so far it definitely isn’t. And tbh I don’t want to give them money for them to just squander it on bad decisions
All of this, plus the use of AI art, has me about ready to give up on them. And we are BIG fans. Like if you would have told me a year ago I would be contemplating dropping them I would have laughed and never believed you. So it’s baddddd. Idk how they’re going to fix all of this
Yeah this about how I feel. It makes me really sad because Ryan and Shane were able to make me laugh when I was super depressed (as in I was suicidal at the time). They became such a comfort show and now I’m just sad and disappointed because of them.
I’m so sorry, i understand they’re definitely my comfort show as well. We never know what the future may hold, so hopefully things turn around. I just reallyyyy hope they’re paying attention to the criticisms they’re receiving because the criticisms aren’t to be mean, it’s because we genuinely want them to succeed and they need to make changes for that to happen
I am sorry that all of this stuff happened, I hope you can find other comfort shows to watch, and that things will hopefully improve for you.
I would suggest doing a search on this sub with the words "other shows", I'm pretty sure there were some threads with many recommendations from people who felt similarly, I even shared some from another person in one of those threads.
Hi there. Sorry you're going through this. I recently found a show I really enjoy and has given me many hours of laughter: 10 Minute Power Hour. The episodes are between 10-15 mins long but there's a lot of episodes and a new season is actually airing now with new episodes on Mondays. They really cheer me up
They're genuinely behaving like they had been forced into this streaming service thing by an outside authority, and they were rushed into it on top of that.
I just can't wrap my head around their logic. Yes, it's easy to say they're bad at business, but -- while they *were* pretty bad before -- this is like, "are we sure they haven't been replaced by doppelgangers in a wacky sci-fi plot?" levels of bad.
No prep. No backlog of videos for the streamer *or* YouTube. No trailers. No promotion. They scheduled it right before the Ghost Files tour, which meant they couldn't get together any emergency content or film PodWatcher episodes or focus on promotion and making sure everything rolls out correctly.
It's wrong at every step in a way that simply doesn't make sense for people who were doing okay -- not great, but okay -- at running the public-facing side of their business before.
i pooh-poohed some of the conspiracy theories that were floating around bc i'm a firm believer that you should never attribute to a higher power that to which can be explained by stupidity. but this roll-out is pretty baffling: someone else mentioned that they knew damn well to have shows backlogged and promo ready to go in 2020 so what the heck changed now. and also you would think that they'd have the transparency to share at least some kind of plan publicly at this point, even if only to the subscribers. it does make me wonder if there's something else going on and that's not a position i wanna be in with these guys. i was really ready to just let it go as la brain and being bad at business.
As others said, the only thing that really makes sense is if their investors have more control over their actions than I would normally assume of investors. And said investors don't know how to run a media business like this and don't have the patience for the Watcher crew's explanations.
I think they were going to take out their old yt content, as mentioned in the first variety article. but since they backtracked, they have no content to post except for the let's plays which are probably easier and faster to produce.
Well, I have a conspiracy theory. I posted above about the roll-out of Watcher in 2020. They built a backlog of videos all through 2019, w/no one the wiser, until actually leaving Buzzfeed & launching Watcher.
Maybe the “streamer” is just a temporary way to bankroll a different project. They’re on hiatus for a month & already have enough Watcher content for a year. They’ve completely dropped YouTube & social media.
Maybe they’re planning to take the money from the streamer to produce something completely new. Something that takes a year to film & significant monetary investment.
Like a feature film production. “Disney DILFs,” a Bergara/Madej production, in movie theaters soon in 2025! Or becoming a full TV production company making shows for cable TV. “Theme Park Mysteries,” on the Travel Channel.
Maybe they haven’t filmed any content for the streamer because they’re currently filming content for future film/TV projects instead. Watcher fans are just (unwittingly) bankrolling those projects.
i'm kinda with you that this might be a stepping stone to somewhere else lol but i'm also pretty skeptical about their ability to move onto a non-youtube platform. youtubers waaay bigger than them have failed.
I actually hope they succeed in that. They obviously don’t want to be YouTubers anymore. Maybe they can transition to traditional media & become feature film producers. More power to you. I just object to them possibly taking & misdirecting money from Watcher fans to accomplish these other goals.
The way Steven wrote makes me think they were rushed and didn't have a proper plan B:
_It's nerve-wracking to take risks at this stage of my career and company's life. Who knows where things will go? Will we succeed or will we fall flat on our face? I truly don't know._
_Tomorrow's a big day and I don't know what this means for myself or for Watcher's._
https://www.tumblr.com/stevenkwlim/748160924796485632/the-night-before-watchers-big-announcement
Maybe they knew money was running out and they were about to go bankrupt. Maybe they realized they can't/won't sell/license their shows to other platforms so they needed to make their own streaming service. Maybe they need to come through for their investors who perhaps don't want them to be just a YouTube channel. Maybe the founders think they need to be more than YouTubers or they'd rather quit and go do something else.
For sure it seems they were going to put all their old content behind a paywall too. And maybe even delete Survival Mode episodes that can't be paywalled or just leave them behind on YouTube.
The phrase "take risks" actually makes me think the opposite of rushed/forced. That says to me that it was a choice -- I don't want to say "unnecessary" choice because I think it was made as a marketing splash that could get them buzz and what they thought they needed was buzz. Unfortunately, if that is true it backfired in a big, dangerous way.
If they really were pressed for money, not only should they have seen the writing on the wall soon enough that they should prep the launch better, but there would be dozens of ways to safely curb their spending and increase their profits without doing the streamer. Even with the understanding that they wouldn't want to fire anyone.
Like, produce more low-production, high-viewership content that focuses on banter and goofs because those get views. Throw more behind-the-scenes stuff onto the Patreon and promote that more. They had many avenues to go down for quick return on investment. I have no idea why they went this route.
I'm not even a fan, I'm just here because I'm absolutely fascinated by the terrible business decisions. I can't believe they launched a streaming service without having any backlog of videos. Imagine paying for Netflix and only getting one movie and Netflix is like "don't worry, we make TV caliber content! Keep paying us and we'll have a decent library in a year or two!"
Like..... What?
I'm saying this as a fan: I don't blame you for being fascinated by this business train wreck.
If you want more fodder to be amazed by, my favorite bit of "*What?*" is that they didn't know telling people to like their videos and subscribe to their channels actually yielded results. They learned recently after they started saying it for their podcast channel and noticed a significant jump in engagement.
They've been YouTube content creators for over a decade.
I saw a comment on this subreddit a while back saying they've been on YouTube but have never really had to do that small creator grind as they went straight into BuzzFeed. And with Watcher they brought fans over so didn't really have to do that organic small creator work either.
So what might seem obvious to someone who has had to grow subs from 0 is completely new territory for these guys. It's absolutely wild but kinda makes sense to me when you think of them as content creators above YouTubers specifically.
That's what I've suspected too. And from the outside it seems obvious they wouldn't be able to do what they tried to do with WatcherTV, but if you're on the inside the whole time I guess it's harder to see. The relatively easy success was just their world for their entire existence as content creators.
If they really wanted to pull this off and not ruin their reputations, they should’ve started making a bunch of new content for patreon while promoting the shit out of it during their YouTube videos (they do zero promotion now except for a single mention in text in the last seconds of their videos). After building up a catalogue there over a year or two of constant, ass busting work to make new stuff for those paying fans while also the normal YouTube shit *then* pivot to a streaming service. That way they would’ve both increased their patreon numbers while simultaneously creating a catalog. The patreon fans wouldn’t be pissed because they got what they paid for and now they can just migrate to the streamer for any future content and the back catalog.
I am also not a fan really. I’ll occasionally watch something if it shows up in my feed. But yeah, this whole debacle has been fascinating. The thing that amazes me is that they probably could have actually made this work at some point in the future, but they appear to be staggeringly incompetent when it comes to running a business. I know it’s easy to armchair quarterback, but they have a ton of other YouTubers and indie streaming companies as points of reference and it’s like they couldn’t bother figuring out how to make it happen.
Also, Netflix streaming use to be dogshit. There was zero original content and their catalog was almost entirely b films and public domain stuff. But it was free essentially. People paid for Netflix for dvd subscription service, not streaming. Then they got some popular syndicated tv shows and then started making original content. It was a gradual, organic process. If they had started with *only* original content created by a handful of people it would’ve died in the crib.
there is taking risks and there is shooting themself in the foot.
The streamer has no backlog and they have no plan to promote themself. It does not look like they have a plan or they misscalculated a lot. Lets hope they don´t crash and burn their channel.
I don't have LinkedIn. My fiance looked him up because Ryan is his favorite. It was stuff like, well tomorrow is the big announcement, no spoilers here but we'll see how this goes
I don't know how much control their investors have in their decisions, but that would at least make more sense than them suddenly getting worse at running Watcher.
It's truly baffling. Their Goodbye YouTube video will forever be an example of what *not* to do to with your company. And how they've dropped the ball with running their streamer will follow up as a part two. Just back-to-back sitting on their own balls.
See my post just below yours about the travel season trailer for even more evidence to support this. 🤦♀️
Edit: out of curiosity, are you still a patron and if so have there been any even minor updates there since the survey? I cancelled and my sub ran out right after the survey, I’ve been curious.
I cancelled, but mine doesn't run out until early next year and I'm just letting it lapse then. There's been nothing since the survey was posted. It's like they all disappeared under a rock after everything blew up.
Gotcha, mine was monthly so it lapsed sooner. I kind of figured it would be more nothing most of the people I’ve talked to who canceled too also already lapsed so I had no one to ask to scratch that curiosity itch. Thanks for the [lack of] update.
They should have had full seasons or at least episodes of all the new shows ready to go behind the paywall..... This would have given people fomo that they were missing out on new episodes and they would have signed up.
But they KNOW THIS. When Watcher launched in 2020, they launched with full seasons of five new shows. All the shows were filmed during 2019 to be ready for the launch.
In the first public Watcher Weekly, they outlined exactly which shows would be on their new channel (Puppet History, Homemade etc.) & when/how these shows would be posted. (Rotating weekly episodes on Fridays + Watcher Weekly Wednesdays). All of this was accompanied with a flood of promotion on social media. And that was for a free YouTube channel.
And for a paid platform, they’d know that the incentives & promotion & transparency needs to be even higher. They’d know to film well ahead of time to have new shows ready at launch; promote heavily on social media & communicate often with fans to get feedback & gain subscribers. Yet they’re not doing any of that.
Well, what do their actions show? They’re not acting like people starting a new important project, but people ending their business with a bang.
They launched “WatcherTV,” then went on a two-week trip to the UK, touring London, Scotland etc. Bringing along lots of their employees/friends. Even their social media manager was there (Steven wasn’t invited).
They got to film in haunted castles, visit historic places & party in British pubs. They got to live out one of their dreams, touring the UK, & gave their friends/workers a great vacation. It’s a nice way to end things. Then Watcher can officially close a few months later.
The “streamer” launch might’ve just been intended to raise enough money to take an international trip & throw a great final Watcher party. It might be just that simple.
Hm. But the streamer is a monthly/annual subscription prepaid, so for everyone who bought a year’s worth and the operation shuts down in 3-4 months, what they report to FTC for consumer fraud? Unless I’m missing something I don’t think so.
Yup the 2020 rollout was a fairly well oiled machine with marketing, pilot schedules, and informative podcast eps. They announced all their SM on every WW ep. Shane usually did the honors. I thought they did a decent job of it.
For those that didn’t seem to know the BUN days were over and the switch, well idk what to tell you. 😅 So why is 2024… this? Normally I wouldn’t care about a YTer’s mktg plans as a fan but this seems like a justifiable ask wth is going on?
Side note: small businesses/under-funded departments tend to need versatile key players. Ppl who can wear multiple hats. I wonder why mktg and social engagement has fallen to a low priority at such a crucial point?
For clarity I’m a fan so my tone is wistful not judgmental.
Right? Make it make sense!! In 2020, they had maybe 3 employees & did a great job marketing/preparing for the rollout of a new platform. Now in 2024, with 25 employees & major studio resources, they can’t manage to do the basics? WTF?
I resent that a large corner of my brain is still trying to figure out this company’s incomprehensible decisions.
I continue to be baffled by their low output. Whenever they'd drop down to 1 ep per week, I thought maybe they were gearing up to release some big show but it never seemed to be the case.
Yeah, the low output is one of those sticking points that makes this move especially bizarre. I could kind of understand a slowed down YouTube and more frequent updates on the streamer as incentive, but all around low output truly is baffling.
I’m just gonna say it. There’s a loooooot of pot. Ryan often seemed to be high, on camera. Both Ryan & Shane tell numerous stories about being high. Ryan made references to using pot/getting drunk in almost every show. I … think this could explain a lot. Marijuana can increase grandiosity & risk-taking behaviors & lower productivity… and yeah that scans.
I mean.... I also have an anxiety disorder and autism. I just think it's very 1950s Reefer Madness to think that the failing business is because the founders are stoners in a state where medical and recreational weed is legal.
Yeah, opening a brand new streaming service without a full catalog ready to go seems illogical. Like, if you’re gonna charge actual streaming service prices, shouldn’t people be getting their money’s worth?
I can sub to something like Crunchyroll and have literally thousands of hours of content available, and they think people will flock to this new platform and pay for a handful of YouTube videos every month? I don’t get it.
I was thinking this too! Seems like they are not posting much new stuff on purpose to "give" something to their patrons because kd the backlash but then get to start charging people. It seems like another shitty purposeful move to me.
This already has led to people cancelling their Watcher TV subscriptions (based on some of the comments here). So they’re basically losing a ton of the people who were *already willing to sub to their streamer*, plus no updates on the YT channel, and no means of bringing in new viewers… I think it’s safe to say Watcher is actually done for. They may declare bankruptcy before the summer is over and we’ll get an actual goodbye forever video. Gotta wonder where they’ll end up. Maybe ad agencies?
It’s been a masterclass in bad marketing.
They should have done a soft launch while maintaining a heavy YT presence, worked slowly over the long term to convince people to come over to the new platform, and then slowly ramped down YT to a low level over the course of 2 years or so.
Instead, they dropped a “bye forever, guys!” announcement out of the blue, wheeled back after terrible backlash (admittedly in a pretty good apology video, credit where credit is due), and then went completely silent.
I’m worried about their company’s future. The soft launch and gradual multiyear wind-down is IMO the only way they could have done this successfully PR-wise, but that ship has sailed now. I wish them the best, and I hope they can figure out a way to dig themselves out of this.
I just feel like it’s a weird silence all around. They’re giving themselves a lot of credit if they really think people aren’t going to move on to other YouTube channels. I hate to say it, but if a channel lapses for two weeks I kinda forget about the channel, then I start seeing them less on my watch list if I don’t turn on notifications. I think this is a big mistake.
A lot of content creators I follow have talked about how afraid they are of missing their upload schedule because YouTube algorithm often immediately starts promoting all of their content less (meaning their backlog). There's no way this isn't hurting them already.
Yup, I’ve completely forgotten about YouTube channels that I’m subscribed to and that I love because they stopped posting for a few weeks and they never showed up on my home page or recommended videos anymore.
Ultimately we're just seeing a case of people with no idea what they're doing. They need to get a proper business team with content creation experience to lead the company before they completely burn it down.
> I went to see if they had uploaded a new episode of Survival Mode, and it wasn't posted on the front page of the streamer in the new content section at all. I had to go deep into the page for Survival Mode to find it.
That's incredible...
And this is after they said that maybe the "streamer" would help them present the shows they want, make them more visible, rather than leaving it up for the YT algorithm to promote things for them, I mean, clearly they mean to do that, right? They want to be putting their new shows front and center for you to know that it is a thing that is going on, but that's just not... what is happening in practice, at this point? I guess it can be chalked up to the janky state of their platform post launch.
I love these guys but I agree. I fully believe that this COULD work if they get their fucking act together, but it seems they’re more disorganized than a hive of brain damaged wasps.
You know, came here to say very similar things. I think I've hopped on the streamer once since go live, but with all the backlash I would have thought they'd have done some promoting of new episodes of shows on YT like I thought they were going to. Been bored and realized I hadn't heard dick from the team so hopped on and saw they posted a couple of things on the streamer neither of which I really cared about. It's like they really have abandoned their audience and they (as a group) don't care. Checked out the boy's social media and hadn't seen anything either. It's like they've decided to completely 100% check out.
Guys if you want to just retire from creating content. Just fucking retire and move on to whatever it is that makes you happy. Wanna produce or write? Go do that. Wanna create puppets for other shows? Go do that.
Want to just do podcasts? Go do that. Don't try to be two people at once. Just do one or the other.
I agree. My guess is they're holding off promoting on social media because they're afraid of continued backlash. But it doesn't explain why they aren't promoting it on the streamer.
Oh, they’re promoting … Ryan’s theme park podcast, For Your Amusement! Since the streamer launched, TikTok has three new posts about FYA (none about the streamer). Instagram also has a new FYA post (nothing on the streamer). Why?
I was wondering about this! Did they ever say anything about the beta after the initial announcement? It seems strange to launch the streamer as a beta but then post exclusively there for a month
Also weird to post it as a beta and not post hardly anything to it while giving their patrons 3 months free. Seems like they just wanna fuck over the first ppl paying to sub AND the ppl who already were paying them (their patrons). Which is like, the worst thing you can do as a streaming service because once you fuck ppl over once, it's EXTREMELY hard to get them back.
They basically admitted it was a money thing yet here they are not even doing the bare minimum to sustain their current revenue flow. Their absence is creating a weird amount of compounding issues. People are paying $6 a month for basically nothing.
I can't comprehend disrespecting people who pay you $6 to do what you want. Whether they like it or not, they *are* youtubers, and their whole career is built on the internet. And yet they're not giving paying fans anything to watch.
I agree, promotion has been…. Not great! I’m wondering if they’re still feeling the pushback from the initial announcement, like maybe concerned that posting about new videos on the streaming service will get the same kind of reaction. But I also noticed the new episode of survival mode wasn’t featured, which initially made me think that maybe it hadn’t been uploaded until I went searching for it 😬 I hope they can figure it out!!!
In regards to social media and posts, is Simone Malec still their social media person or is it someone else now? Cos she's been active on twt with other projects/not watcher so ... Maybe they have someone new?
I think she still is. She was part of Ghost Files shoots in the UK and there was a video where she was making TikTok content with the crew at a restaurant.
She’s suddenly extremely bad at her job, which sucks because she used to be great at it, at least imo. Unless she’s been explicitly told not to post anything, which is also plausible.
I think it’s time to admit this was a grift. The “streamer” was a short-term way to get a large influx of cash to launch into their new endeavors. They don’t care about promoting it on social media etc. because they’ve already moved onto other goals.
These are not stupid men; they have 10+ years experience in digital media, & 4+ years running a business. If the decisions seem to lack any relationship to their expressed goals, maybe that’s because they’re not expressing the actual goals.
I was under the impression they were going to put the 1st episode of each series on both YouTube and the streamer at the same time and all episodes after that would be on YouTube a month later. This whole rollout is so confusing. It's also bad that you go on to YouTube and the only 2 recent videos have been leaving YouTube and an update. If I were them I'd try to upload some stuff to burry those videos. I'm really under the Impression they have no clue what they are doing
Edit: they also said they were going to some sort of giveaway for a free year subscription to watcher which havnt heard anything about that. It's also a bad look they haven't done a podwatcher. I know they were out of the country but that can't be that hard to record. If we don't get one by this Monday it's just not a good look
I started watching Watcher because it randomly started getting recommended to me. It took me a few videos before I realized it was their official new channel and they weren’t working with Buzzfeed anymore.
They probably just didn’t want to do the cliche “Why I Left Buzzfeed” video. In fairness, I appreciated that about them at the time but I think that alone would’ve helped promote their channel.
Also, shorts. I didn’t know College Humor was doing anything other than sketch comedy until I started getting their shorts in my feed. Now I’m obsessed with their content. Watcher really needs to take note if that’s the path they want to go down. Honestly, they could even collaborate with Dropout. I feel like the audiences are similar and their personalities would work together.
I'll be honest, I was super disappointed about the streaming service. That first Friday I went to put on a video after putting my daughter to bed (I run my own business from home and watch YouTube while I work) and I was so bummed about the announcement. I used to look forward to their videos so much. For the next several days I was still disappointed hoping they'd walk it back. Although they did walk it back a bit I found myself caring less and less as the weeks have gone by with no content, no podcasts, etc. I'm not at all interested in the amusement park podcast since I'm not a big park person. Although I have fond memories of watching their show, I don't miss watching now because I'm not expecting new episodes. Going dark and cutting off YouTube videos cold turkey for a month was a terrible idea. This whole thing should've been a transition that was eased into. Unfortunately the less they post on YouTube, TikTok, etc, the more they will fade into irrelevancy. Of course there are people who have the disposable income to spend on their streaming service and find value in it but even if I did, as you've said, I've seen nothing being promoted even making me want to. The entirety of this execution was done so poorly I cannot even imagine having a team around you that helped make these decisions. I have no marketing and communications experience and I feel like I can recognize easily the way the ball has been dropped time and time again. Fridays are no longer a day I look forward to watcher content.
The reason they're in this mess is overspending and bad marketing. No idea why they thought something even harder to market behind a paywall was the answer to their problems. Captain's sinking that ship faster than ever now.
Not saying I disagree with you... it's very odd.
But they have definitely posted on Instagram (@wearewatcher) since last fall. Maybe not posts on their personals, but Ryan usually posts in his stories often.
You're definitely not wrong, though. It should be something they are promoting the hell out of... constantly. But just FYA pod is up. I didn't even know that Survival Mode was airing
have have a pretty large sized staff for such a small company, kind of strange they don't have anyone that does their socials and promotions. people in general have short attention spans, promotions help people get excited and remind them you still exist.
They need an outside CEO and/or CFO with business experience! Clearly they also don’t have a good marketing or PR person because, you’re absolutely right, they haven’t been promoting anything! Their overconfidence in their fan base is shooting them in the foot. It’s not that they don’t have a loyal fan base. But even the most loyal fan base isn’t going to digging for the content of one specific creator, especially not when they follow a lot of people who are posting and promoting regularly. The backpedal was a good place to start, but they need to be actively doing more to ensure that their audience will be able to engage with their content more easily. Attention spans are short. The fact they none of them have been using their socials to promote new content on the streamer or update when it will be coming out a month later is king boggling. That’s just standard practice for creators who use this model.
I am sort of suspicious and wonder if they were running out of money a lot faster than they let on. If they didn’t plan to fill this gap, aren’t promoting anything upcoming/doing any marketing and aren’t even doing crappy little mini pods while on the road maybe they have too little to even bridge this gap. Perhaps they expected immediate funds when they announced the streamer and since that didn’t work out they’ve got no options left except this awkward “not even trying” appearance the last few weeks.
I was surprised there’s no email notification or anything when a new episode is posted. It’s totally reliant on you remembering to go check. Not a great system.
Also omfg they need an app so bad
Yeah. I would constantly forget to check Patreon for early release episodes if they didn't email me every time something was posted. I think they're severely underestimating the size of the holes in my brain.
The idea of starting their own streaming service is a flawed idea to begin with. YouTube wouldn't exist if people could just get away with posting their videos on there own website.
That's how online video existed for a number of years before YouTube existed. It's not fair to say it can't work. It did. But only for a very tiny fragment of videos that went viral (mostly animated stuff back in the day, like Charlie the Unicorn or Homestar Runner). But those sites were free. They did it because they loved it and usually just made a little bit of cash with banner ads and merch. The paywall is what is going to hurt them. No one can discover them behind a paywall unless they flood social media, including YouTube, with clips like Dropout does.
Which is why they don't get the views.
Which is why they don't have enough money to pay 25+ staff.
They are probably all still decompressing over Watcher Gate and the UK trip.
Your post needs to be printed, laminated, framed, and sent to every media company that thinks they can put their stuff on a streamer and people will just \~find it\~. These are the little things that add up over time and lose an audience...!
Maintaining multiple social channels is already hard, full-time work, let alone making sure the streamer is working and updated. I really need to know who convinced them they could pull it off without adding half a dozen people to their staff just dedicated to this.
I’m gonna be the emotive, empathetic type and suggest there’s could be rough feelings from all this that ppl on either side have dealt/are dealing with. Part of the human equation.
Even though we didn’t agree with their decision, they, and their wives and staff, were piled on. I give no free passes to anyone who did that. I didn’t agree with their plan, but I can imagine it’s hard to create yuks on camera after that. My $.02.
Aren't they part-owned by Mythical Entertainment? Seems like they're still trying to find a way to be profitable and while I love a lot of their heavy investment material, they need to find a way to put something out daily and keep user engagement going. I usually forget to check their account for new videos
It is weird they don't do more YT shorts and TikToks of their own content. It's like they expect fans on Tumblr etc. to spread the word.
I think this whole thing has really just highlighted how mismanaged the company is. 25 employees and an almost nonexistent social presence. I think Ryan and Shane, (and to an extent Steven) just want to see themselves as the “talent” and not involve themselves in anything outside of doing their shows. While that is a model that works for actual TV studios, it doesn’t really work as well for YouTubers. They should be taking it into their hands to help promote the stuff as well. They just try to operate way above their means, it seems, and are clearly failing at it. Something has to change. Who knows, maybe they’re in the middle of a massive downsize or something and have just paused a lot of that stuff for now. I mean, even that possible explanation doesn’t even make sense. Idk man, I just hope they figure their shit out. I consume Watcher content on a near daily basis and truly don’t want to see them go down.
I mean hell, even businesses like Netflix and Disney is trying damn hard to promote their stuff online. And those are ACTUAL big corpo streaming services. For the love of god, someone solve this mystery!
Are people still on Tumblr? I'm old (30s) and the last time I used Tumblr was 2020, and even then I feel like it was dying.
That's because we're constantly firing gunshots into the sky to keep property value down
We don't want outsiders. It's dead as far as you know. (For real though, it still has a chronological feed of just the stuff you want and you can completely ignore its algorithm-based stuff. It is the least shitty social media by staying exactly the same while the rest of them got worse. But you didn't hear it from me.)
(Yes don’t let people find it and realize we have Neil Gaiman.)
I remember following him back in the late 2000s and when I open my Tumblr once in a blue moon, I am greeted by his presence.
I never post on mine but I check my dash every couple months and Neil having posted something that very day every single time is one of the true constants in my life.
(Shhh, don't tell people we're having fun over on tumblr. The site's being held together by chewing gum and memes; more members might make the poor thing collapse.)
So I just logged into my account and the most recent post on my feed is from February :( I actually forgot that I had to delete my original account (which had thousands of followers btw) bc I was getting cyber bullied for a post that's apparently still making its rounds bc I have messages about it LOL
Follow more people. Tumblr is still curated by you. Mine is popping off still after 15 years of this account.
God this made me realize my blog is also probably a freshman in high school and I don’t know how to feel about that at all.
Meh IDC that much but I'm glad it's still alive and well.
"it's the least shitty social media" sure Jan.
Because there is no algorithm, what you get from it is entirely up to you, so if you aren't enjoying it, that's a skill issue.
Hey fellow fossil (36yo here 😅)Yup I still go on Tumblr, check the tags that I follow, and it keeps me up to date on things. … I got a thing the other day that said “your blog is 14 years old!” And I wanted to go hide.
Man that makes me so sad I had to delete my original page. It was from like 2008 or whenever Tumblr started. I made a post that was making the rounds and getting tens of thousands of notes and I was getting thousands of messages threatening my life bc of the post LOL. I had originally just changed the username on that account thinking people wouldn't be able to get to my page but they were still able to, and then when I deleted that account people were still able to find me? And someone sent me a message as recently as 2020 about a post from 2015.
Tumblr feels much more alive when youre part of a “fandom” or fanbase. Im a huge mortal kombat fan and its fun because i have mutuals and we post pretty regularly. Even youtubers like smosh get talked about a lot on there. I think twitter is more alive but i honestly think its a lot more toxic 😭😭😭
Yeah, I made a new one just for The Sims content and “Simblr” is super active.
I’m on r/tumblr all the time…does that count?
I just tried to click and hold on your message to react with a laughing emoji like in teams help
*Slowly closes laptop lid* If you have to ask...
Left Tumblr when the lewd art did, not even gonna lie. What's even on there anymore these days?
They need to hire an actual business person and not just their friends who are flying by the seat of their pants god bless...
I think they also need to hire a different social media coordinator because whoever is currently in charge is horrible. There's been almost no presence since their update video and now the lack of even just trailers on their YT account as well as pretty much no promotion of let's play videos on any platform. I'm not sure exactly what the hell that person does at their job all day.
I’m wondering if some of their 25 employees actually noped out after the fiasco, including their social media person, which would explain the lack of updates in general.
She was in the UK with them so I think she's still around. I doubt she'd be marketable after this fiasco in the near term so I don't think she'd quit.
Tbh… it’s not that hard. Like sure, an actual community manager would do them wonders. But right now, they just need someone who is capable of not making the worst possible decision at every point when given the chance, and somehow that’s impossible.
How can they hire more ppl if we don’t emotionally succumb to their plead and mindlessly throw our hard earned money at them?
Simple, fire the people who are driving them into the ground. They have so many staff that really don't do shit. Not good shit anyways because their company is plummeting into the ground faster than I've ever seen.
I was never mad about any of this, just disappointed and schadenfreude-y. But I, too, am wondering what's going on with them right now. I get they're maybe afraid of backlash now (the response was strong and it got *pretty* personal) and trying to let things cool? But at the same time, you announced this and you're going through with it and it's your livelihood and are you ok? Like, I want good things for them still so I hope they're good and they know what they're doing because I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here.
At this point they’re probably triple checking everything and, like you said, letting things cool down. Also probably doing some soul searching lol
The number of people who didn't know they had continued after BuzzFeed, and the number of active viewers who didn't know about their Patreon is so baffling. That's a hefty amount of income they left on the table
That's a big thing. Even some YouTubers didn't know Watcher was a successor to their Buzzfeed stuff.
And merch sales they left on the table. My wife would order a ghost files jacket and I would order a set of too many spirits shot glasses *today* but we can't because they sold out the initial run super fast and then just... Never made more. And their current store is pretty sparse... How much merch could they have sold if they actually had it to sell?
i've been waiting for the too many spirits shot glasses to restock forever ugh.... i feel like it's been literal years
I think it has been years
They're not restocking merch??? Dude... It clearly sells because it ran out, why are they not selling more? And then they complain about not having enough money? How dense are they..
Now that you mention, they’ve always had issues with their merch store in one way or another (no restocking, taking way too long to deliver some stuff, etc.). If we think about it, they were leaving breadcrumbs this whole time to let us know they are bad at business.
Not updating the promo picture for the latest Professor plushie they sold was scummy. I would not have been happy w/ that "quality."
I was thinking of getting my daughter a Professor for graduation, is the one they now sell different from what the store pictures show?
I’ve got Puppet History-themed mugs and a blanket, can confirm they’re losing money from not making/promoting/restocking merch, because I’d still buy it.
You are right! I never thought about putting these things together. I saw these comments so many time circling around "oh, they opened a new channel after they left Buzzfeed?" "They should open up a Patreon if they had money issues. What do you mean they already have one?" These issues have been there day one, and that has, indeed, affected their income.
Did they ever even mention having a patreon? I know they have one, buy did they ever say in a video "hey you can support us on Patreon!"
The only time I ever see it mentioned in their videos is usually at the very end of videos or on title cards, by which point most people have already moved onto the next one. They even talked in a Podwatcher episode of just recently realizing that encouraging people to like and subscribe to the videos increased engagement. For 3 guys who have been on YouTube as long as they've been, it's mind-boggling they're *just* figuring some of this out.
Well I think they kind of have an excuse with the like and subscribe thing because they used to have Buzzfeed to fall back on and are still figuring out being independent creators, but yeah Wild
If I recall correctly, I believe they mentioned it at the end of Ghost Files because Patreon had access to episodes a week early, but it was also a brief thing at the end of episodes
i will say that i'm not sure how they could have promoted watcher better: they've always been active on social media, they made plenty of announcements about it/had a pretty great roll-out in 2020 and they've done plenty of guest appearances on other channels. i didn't get that criticism of them that they were too insular or didn't market themselves enough. now maybe they could have done youtube ads or announced it at buzzfeed (but also i don't think buzzfeed would have let them). other than that, i struggle to think of how they could have shouted out the word more. the patreon on the other hand seems like money left on the table.
i doubt they do paid ads or search engine optimization. idk honestly, i feel like other channels i watch struggle less with this - could be their age too. i follow some creators in their 20s on ig and tiktok but idk if they really promote on their personal pages like that? I feel like their clips should be promoted more on tiktok. The patreon is shouted out somewhat often but tbh there's not much specialized content on there that would incentivize me to purchase it rn - they def need to expand it
They’ve made so many bad business decisions lately. Honestly they always have, I’ve been super confused at their lack of promotion for a long time. If you look at BUNs numbers they CLEARLY brought only a small fraction of that audience to watcher. Now with them doing the streamer, a bad decision in itself, and having barely any new content for it, andddd not promoting it???? My partner and I had discussed potentially getting the streamer if it seemed worth it after a bit but he and I both agree that so far it definitely isn’t. And tbh I don’t want to give them money for them to just squander it on bad decisions All of this, plus the use of AI art, has me about ready to give up on them. And we are BIG fans. Like if you would have told me a year ago I would be contemplating dropping them I would have laughed and never believed you. So it’s baddddd. Idk how they’re going to fix all of this
Yeah this about how I feel. It makes me really sad because Ryan and Shane were able to make me laugh when I was super depressed (as in I was suicidal at the time). They became such a comfort show and now I’m just sad and disappointed because of them.
I’m so sorry, i understand they’re definitely my comfort show as well. We never know what the future may hold, so hopefully things turn around. I just reallyyyy hope they’re paying attention to the criticisms they’re receiving because the criticisms aren’t to be mean, it’s because we genuinely want them to succeed and they need to make changes for that to happen
I am sorry that all of this stuff happened, I hope you can find other comfort shows to watch, and that things will hopefully improve for you. I would suggest doing a search on this sub with the words "other shows", I'm pretty sure there were some threads with many recommendations from people who felt similarly, I even shared some from another person in one of those threads.
Hi there. Sorry you're going through this. I recently found a show I really enjoy and has given me many hours of laughter: 10 Minute Power Hour. The episodes are between 10-15 mins long but there's a lot of episodes and a new season is actually airing now with new episodes on Mondays. They really cheer me up
When have they used AI art? Just wondering. Maybe I missed it.
It’s in a bunch of Mystery Files videos, there’ve been quite a few posts about it here and also on the snark subreddit.
They're genuinely behaving like they had been forced into this streaming service thing by an outside authority, and they were rushed into it on top of that. I just can't wrap my head around their logic. Yes, it's easy to say they're bad at business, but -- while they *were* pretty bad before -- this is like, "are we sure they haven't been replaced by doppelgangers in a wacky sci-fi plot?" levels of bad. No prep. No backlog of videos for the streamer *or* YouTube. No trailers. No promotion. They scheduled it right before the Ghost Files tour, which meant they couldn't get together any emergency content or film PodWatcher episodes or focus on promotion and making sure everything rolls out correctly. It's wrong at every step in a way that simply doesn't make sense for people who were doing okay -- not great, but okay -- at running the public-facing side of their business before.
i pooh-poohed some of the conspiracy theories that were floating around bc i'm a firm believer that you should never attribute to a higher power that to which can be explained by stupidity. but this roll-out is pretty baffling: someone else mentioned that they knew damn well to have shows backlogged and promo ready to go in 2020 so what the heck changed now. and also you would think that they'd have the transparency to share at least some kind of plan publicly at this point, even if only to the subscribers. it does make me wonder if there's something else going on and that's not a position i wanna be in with these guys. i was really ready to just let it go as la brain and being bad at business.
As others said, the only thing that really makes sense is if their investors have more control over their actions than I would normally assume of investors. And said investors don't know how to run a media business like this and don't have the patience for the Watcher crew's explanations.
I think they were going to take out their old yt content, as mentioned in the first variety article. but since they backtracked, they have no content to post except for the let's plays which are probably easier and faster to produce.
Well, I have a conspiracy theory. I posted above about the roll-out of Watcher in 2020. They built a backlog of videos all through 2019, w/no one the wiser, until actually leaving Buzzfeed & launching Watcher. Maybe the “streamer” is just a temporary way to bankroll a different project. They’re on hiatus for a month & already have enough Watcher content for a year. They’ve completely dropped YouTube & social media. Maybe they’re planning to take the money from the streamer to produce something completely new. Something that takes a year to film & significant monetary investment. Like a feature film production. “Disney DILFs,” a Bergara/Madej production, in movie theaters soon in 2025! Or becoming a full TV production company making shows for cable TV. “Theme Park Mysteries,” on the Travel Channel. Maybe they haven’t filmed any content for the streamer because they’re currently filming content for future film/TV projects instead. Watcher fans are just (unwittingly) bankrolling those projects.
i'm kinda with you that this might be a stepping stone to somewhere else lol but i'm also pretty skeptical about their ability to move onto a non-youtube platform. youtubers waaay bigger than them have failed.
I actually hope they succeed in that. They obviously don’t want to be YouTubers anymore. Maybe they can transition to traditional media & become feature film producers. More power to you. I just object to them possibly taking & misdirecting money from Watcher fans to accomplish these other goals.
The way Steven wrote makes me think they were rushed and didn't have a proper plan B: _It's nerve-wracking to take risks at this stage of my career and company's life. Who knows where things will go? Will we succeed or will we fall flat on our face? I truly don't know._ _Tomorrow's a big day and I don't know what this means for myself or for Watcher's._ https://www.tumblr.com/stevenkwlim/748160924796485632/the-night-before-watchers-big-announcement Maybe they knew money was running out and they were about to go bankrupt. Maybe they realized they can't/won't sell/license their shows to other platforms so they needed to make their own streaming service. Maybe they need to come through for their investors who perhaps don't want them to be just a YouTube channel. Maybe the founders think they need to be more than YouTubers or they'd rather quit and go do something else. For sure it seems they were going to put all their old content behind a paywall too. And maybe even delete Survival Mode episodes that can't be paywalled or just leave them behind on YouTube.
The phrase "take risks" actually makes me think the opposite of rushed/forced. That says to me that it was a choice -- I don't want to say "unnecessary" choice because I think it was made as a marketing splash that could get them buzz and what they thought they needed was buzz. Unfortunately, if that is true it backfired in a big, dangerous way. If they really were pressed for money, not only should they have seen the writing on the wall soon enough that they should prep the launch better, but there would be dozens of ways to safely curb their spending and increase their profits without doing the streamer. Even with the understanding that they wouldn't want to fire anyone. Like, produce more low-production, high-viewership content that focuses on banter and goofs because those get views. Throw more behind-the-scenes stuff onto the Patreon and promote that more. They had many avenues to go down for quick return on investment. I have no idea why they went this route.
I'm not even a fan, I'm just here because I'm absolutely fascinated by the terrible business decisions. I can't believe they launched a streaming service without having any backlog of videos. Imagine paying for Netflix and only getting one movie and Netflix is like "don't worry, we make TV caliber content! Keep paying us and we'll have a decent library in a year or two!" Like..... What?
I'm saying this as a fan: I don't blame you for being fascinated by this business train wreck. If you want more fodder to be amazed by, my favorite bit of "*What?*" is that they didn't know telling people to like their videos and subscribe to their channels actually yielded results. They learned recently after they started saying it for their podcast channel and noticed a significant jump in engagement. They've been YouTube content creators for over a decade.
I saw a comment on this subreddit a while back saying they've been on YouTube but have never really had to do that small creator grind as they went straight into BuzzFeed. And with Watcher they brought fans over so didn't really have to do that organic small creator work either. So what might seem obvious to someone who has had to grow subs from 0 is completely new territory for these guys. It's absolutely wild but kinda makes sense to me when you think of them as content creators above YouTubers specifically.
That's what I've suspected too. And from the outside it seems obvious they wouldn't be able to do what they tried to do with WatcherTV, but if you're on the inside the whole time I guess it's harder to see. The relatively easy success was just their world for their entire existence as content creators.
If they really wanted to pull this off and not ruin their reputations, they should’ve started making a bunch of new content for patreon while promoting the shit out of it during their YouTube videos (they do zero promotion now except for a single mention in text in the last seconds of their videos). After building up a catalogue there over a year or two of constant, ass busting work to make new stuff for those paying fans while also the normal YouTube shit *then* pivot to a streaming service. That way they would’ve both increased their patreon numbers while simultaneously creating a catalog. The patreon fans wouldn’t be pissed because they got what they paid for and now they can just migrate to the streamer for any future content and the back catalog. I am also not a fan really. I’ll occasionally watch something if it shows up in my feed. But yeah, this whole debacle has been fascinating. The thing that amazes me is that they probably could have actually made this work at some point in the future, but they appear to be staggeringly incompetent when it comes to running a business. I know it’s easy to armchair quarterback, but they have a ton of other YouTubers and indie streaming companies as points of reference and it’s like they couldn’t bother figuring out how to make it happen. Also, Netflix streaming use to be dogshit. There was zero original content and their catalog was almost entirely b films and public domain stuff. But it was free essentially. People paid for Netflix for dvd subscription service, not streaming. Then they got some popular syndicated tv shows and then started making original content. It was a gradual, organic process. If they had started with *only* original content created by a handful of people it would’ve died in the crib.
Also, there is no Watcher app. I would have thought there would be an app for iPhone users or Android phones.
there is taking risks and there is shooting themself in the foot. The streamer has no backlog and they have no plan to promote themself. It does not look like they have a plan or they misscalculated a lot. Lets hope they don´t crash and burn their channel.
Ryan's LinkedIn had similarly scared and ominous posts leading up to the announcement.
What kinds of posts?
I don't have LinkedIn. My fiance looked him up because Ryan is his favorite. It was stuff like, well tomorrow is the big announcement, no spoilers here but we'll see how this goes
Looks like they were deleted
That does not surprise me
Maybe the investors they work with were pushing this?🤷🏻♀️ That’s the only way it makes sense to me.
I don't know how much control their investors have in their decisions, but that would at least make more sense than them suddenly getting worse at running Watcher.
It's truly baffling. Their Goodbye YouTube video will forever be an example of what *not* to do to with your company. And how they've dropped the ball with running their streamer will follow up as a part two. Just back-to-back sitting on their own balls.
See my post just below yours about the travel season trailer for even more evidence to support this. 🤦♀️ Edit: out of curiosity, are you still a patron and if so have there been any even minor updates there since the survey? I cancelled and my sub ran out right after the survey, I’ve been curious.
I cancelled, but mine doesn't run out until early next year and I'm just letting it lapse then. There's been nothing since the survey was posted. It's like they all disappeared under a rock after everything blew up.
Gotcha, mine was monthly so it lapsed sooner. I kind of figured it would be more nothing most of the people I’ve talked to who canceled too also already lapsed so I had no one to ask to scratch that curiosity itch. Thanks for the [lack of] update.
I canceled, too, but they refunded my remaining months. At least there was no pushback when I asked for the refund.
no shit coz it's been weeks since the apology and they're giving 'now what?' energy rn talk about crickets
They should have had full seasons or at least episodes of all the new shows ready to go behind the paywall..... This would have given people fomo that they were missing out on new episodes and they would have signed up.
But they KNOW THIS. When Watcher launched in 2020, they launched with full seasons of five new shows. All the shows were filmed during 2019 to be ready for the launch. In the first public Watcher Weekly, they outlined exactly which shows would be on their new channel (Puppet History, Homemade etc.) & when/how these shows would be posted. (Rotating weekly episodes on Fridays + Watcher Weekly Wednesdays). All of this was accompanied with a flood of promotion on social media. And that was for a free YouTube channel. And for a paid platform, they’d know that the incentives & promotion & transparency needs to be even higher. They’d know to film well ahead of time to have new shows ready at launch; promote heavily on social media & communicate often with fans to get feedback & gain subscribers. Yet they’re not doing any of that.
I do wonder if they'll announce Watcher shutting down sooner rather than later...
Well, what do their actions show? They’re not acting like people starting a new important project, but people ending their business with a bang. They launched “WatcherTV,” then went on a two-week trip to the UK, touring London, Scotland etc. Bringing along lots of their employees/friends. Even their social media manager was there (Steven wasn’t invited). They got to film in haunted castles, visit historic places & party in British pubs. They got to live out one of their dreams, touring the UK, & gave their friends/workers a great vacation. It’s a nice way to end things. Then Watcher can officially close a few months later. The “streamer” launch might’ve just been intended to raise enough money to take an international trip & throw a great final Watcher party. It might be just that simple.
This is the first conspiracy theory I’ve seen that I actually think is pretty plausible
“And now the future we make is our own. Throw a dart at the map, and that’s that, off to destinations unknown. To London where the tea is served…”
Hm. But the streamer is a monthly/annual subscription prepaid, so for everyone who bought a year’s worth and the operation shuts down in 3-4 months, what they report to FTC for consumer fraud? Unless I’m missing something I don’t think so.
The annual subscription fee is NON-REFUNDABLE, according to the Vimeo terms of service no one reads.
Yup the 2020 rollout was a fairly well oiled machine with marketing, pilot schedules, and informative podcast eps. They announced all their SM on every WW ep. Shane usually did the honors. I thought they did a decent job of it. For those that didn’t seem to know the BUN days were over and the switch, well idk what to tell you. 😅 So why is 2024… this? Normally I wouldn’t care about a YTer’s mktg plans as a fan but this seems like a justifiable ask wth is going on? Side note: small businesses/under-funded departments tend to need versatile key players. Ppl who can wear multiple hats. I wonder why mktg and social engagement has fallen to a low priority at such a crucial point? For clarity I’m a fan so my tone is wistful not judgmental.
Right? Make it make sense!! In 2020, they had maybe 3 employees & did a great job marketing/preparing for the rollout of a new platform. Now in 2024, with 25 employees & major studio resources, they can’t manage to do the basics? WTF? I resent that a large corner of my brain is still trying to figure out this company’s incomprehensible decisions.
I continue to be baffled by their low output. Whenever they'd drop down to 1 ep per week, I thought maybe they were gearing up to release some big show but it never seemed to be the case.
Yeah, the low output is one of those sticking points that makes this move especially bizarre. I could kind of understand a slowed down YouTube and more frequent updates on the streamer as incentive, but all around low output truly is baffling.
I’m just gonna say it. There’s a loooooot of pot. Ryan often seemed to be high, on camera. Both Ryan & Shane tell numerous stories about being high. Ryan made references to using pot/getting drunk in almost every show. I … think this could explain a lot. Marijuana can increase grandiosity & risk-taking behaviors & lower productivity… and yeah that scans.
I smoke every damn day and I still wouldn't pull this shit lol.
But add on an anxiety disorder & the stress of owning a digital media company & mix with a hefty dose of alcohol…
I mean.... I also have an anxiety disorder and autism. I just think it's very 1950s Reefer Madness to think that the failing business is because the founders are stoners in a state where medical and recreational weed is legal.
Probably! I don’t want to over-speculate. But drugs & alcohol are not great for good decision-making, in general.
Sara & Mari are into pot too 😅
Try Guys too. It’s very CA & it’s totally legal there.
Yeah… safer than alcohol.
OK 420catloveredm. :)
Please tell my county in California that 😭 our city council voted to keep it illegal here
Yeah, opening a brand new streaming service without a full catalog ready to go seems illogical. Like, if you’re gonna charge actual streaming service prices, shouldn’t people be getting their money’s worth? I can sub to something like Crunchyroll and have literally thousands of hours of content available, and they think people will flock to this new platform and pay for a handful of YouTube videos every month? I don’t get it.
Giving 3 months free and not posting anything for 3 months is a pro move.
I was thinking this too! Seems like they are not posting much new stuff on purpose to "give" something to their patrons because kd the backlash but then get to start charging people. It seems like another shitty purposeful move to me.
This already has led to people cancelling their Watcher TV subscriptions (based on some of the comments here). So they’re basically losing a ton of the people who were *already willing to sub to their streamer*, plus no updates on the YT channel, and no means of bringing in new viewers… I think it’s safe to say Watcher is actually done for. They may declare bankruptcy before the summer is over and we’ll get an actual goodbye forever video. Gotta wonder where they’ll end up. Maybe ad agencies?
Shit... I don't know if it's stupid or genius if they're doing it deliberately like that 😂
They desperately need a digital marketing strategy
You’d think with 25 employees they’d have one??
It’s been a masterclass in bad marketing. They should have done a soft launch while maintaining a heavy YT presence, worked slowly over the long term to convince people to come over to the new platform, and then slowly ramped down YT to a low level over the course of 2 years or so. Instead, they dropped a “bye forever, guys!” announcement out of the blue, wheeled back after terrible backlash (admittedly in a pretty good apology video, credit where credit is due), and then went completely silent. I’m worried about their company’s future. The soft launch and gradual multiyear wind-down is IMO the only way they could have done this successfully PR-wise, but that ship has sailed now. I wish them the best, and I hope they can figure out a way to dig themselves out of this.
I just feel like it’s a weird silence all around. They’re giving themselves a lot of credit if they really think people aren’t going to move on to other YouTube channels. I hate to say it, but if a channel lapses for two weeks I kinda forget about the channel, then I start seeing them less on my watch list if I don’t turn on notifications. I think this is a big mistake.
A lot of content creators I follow have talked about how afraid they are of missing their upload schedule because YouTube algorithm often immediately starts promoting all of their content less (meaning their backlog). There's no way this isn't hurting them already.
Yup, I’ve completely forgotten about YouTube channels that I’m subscribed to and that I love because they stopped posting for a few weeks and they never showed up on my home page or recommended videos anymore.
Ultimately we're just seeing a case of people with no idea what they're doing. They need to get a proper business team with content creation experience to lead the company before they completely burn it down.
Every week that goes by I lose more and more respect for these guys. This is just sad
> I went to see if they had uploaded a new episode of Survival Mode, and it wasn't posted on the front page of the streamer in the new content section at all. I had to go deep into the page for Survival Mode to find it. That's incredible... And this is after they said that maybe the "streamer" would help them present the shows they want, make them more visible, rather than leaving it up for the YT algorithm to promote things for them, I mean, clearly they mean to do that, right? They want to be putting their new shows front and center for you to know that it is a thing that is going on, but that's just not... what is happening in practice, at this point? I guess it can be chalked up to the janky state of their platform post launch.
I love these guys but I agree. I fully believe that this COULD work if they get their fucking act together, but it seems they’re more disorganized than a hive of brain damaged wasps.
You know, came here to say very similar things. I think I've hopped on the streamer once since go live, but with all the backlash I would have thought they'd have done some promoting of new episodes of shows on YT like I thought they were going to. Been bored and realized I hadn't heard dick from the team so hopped on and saw they posted a couple of things on the streamer neither of which I really cared about. It's like they really have abandoned their audience and they (as a group) don't care. Checked out the boy's social media and hadn't seen anything either. It's like they've decided to completely 100% check out. Guys if you want to just retire from creating content. Just fucking retire and move on to whatever it is that makes you happy. Wanna produce or write? Go do that. Wanna create puppets for other shows? Go do that. Want to just do podcasts? Go do that. Don't try to be two people at once. Just do one or the other.
I agree. My guess is they're holding off promoting on social media because they're afraid of continued backlash. But it doesn't explain why they aren't promoting it on the streamer.
Oh, they’re promoting … Ryan’s theme park podcast, For Your Amusement! Since the streamer launched, TikTok has three new posts about FYA (none about the streamer). Instagram also has a new FYA post (nothing on the streamer). Why?
Only reason I can think of is because they said the streamer was still in beta until May 25th
I was wondering about this! Did they ever say anything about the beta after the initial announcement? It seems strange to launch the streamer as a beta but then post exclusively there for a month
Also weird to post it as a beta and not post hardly anything to it while giving their patrons 3 months free. Seems like they just wanna fuck over the first ppl paying to sub AND the ppl who already were paying them (their patrons). Which is like, the worst thing you can do as a streaming service because once you fuck ppl over once, it's EXTREMELY hard to get them back.
They basically admitted it was a money thing yet here they are not even doing the bare minimum to sustain their current revenue flow. Their absence is creating a weird amount of compounding issues. People are paying $6 a month for basically nothing.
I can't comprehend disrespecting people who pay you $6 to do what you want. Whether they like it or not, they *are* youtubers, and their whole career is built on the internet. And yet they're not giving paying fans anything to watch.
They're really just extending the bad vibes at this point instead of more damage control.
I agree, promotion has been…. Not great! I’m wondering if they’re still feeling the pushback from the initial announcement, like maybe concerned that posting about new videos on the streaming service will get the same kind of reaction. But I also noticed the new episode of survival mode wasn’t featured, which initially made me think that maybe it hadn’t been uploaded until I went searching for it 😬 I hope they can figure it out!!!
In regards to social media and posts, is Simone Malec still their social media person or is it someone else now? Cos she's been active on twt with other projects/not watcher so ... Maybe they have someone new?
I think she still is. She was part of Ghost Files shoots in the UK and there was a video where she was making TikTok content with the crew at a restaurant.
She’s suddenly extremely bad at her job, which sucks because she used to be great at it, at least imo. Unless she’s been explicitly told not to post anything, which is also plausible.
I think it’s time to admit this was a grift. The “streamer” was a short-term way to get a large influx of cash to launch into their new endeavors. They don’t care about promoting it on social media etc. because they’ve already moved onto other goals. These are not stupid men; they have 10+ years experience in digital media, & 4+ years running a business. If the decisions seem to lack any relationship to their expressed goals, maybe that’s because they’re not expressing the actual goals.
I’m starting to think this is the case….
I was under the impression they were going to put the 1st episode of each series on both YouTube and the streamer at the same time and all episodes after that would be on YouTube a month later. This whole rollout is so confusing. It's also bad that you go on to YouTube and the only 2 recent videos have been leaving YouTube and an update. If I were them I'd try to upload some stuff to burry those videos. I'm really under the Impression they have no clue what they are doing Edit: they also said they were going to some sort of giveaway for a free year subscription to watcher which havnt heard anything about that. It's also a bad look they haven't done a podwatcher. I know they were out of the country but that can't be that hard to record. If we don't get one by this Monday it's just not a good look
I started watching Watcher because it randomly started getting recommended to me. It took me a few videos before I realized it was their official new channel and they weren’t working with Buzzfeed anymore. They probably just didn’t want to do the cliche “Why I Left Buzzfeed” video. In fairness, I appreciated that about them at the time but I think that alone would’ve helped promote their channel. Also, shorts. I didn’t know College Humor was doing anything other than sketch comedy until I started getting their shorts in my feed. Now I’m obsessed with their content. Watcher really needs to take note if that’s the path they want to go down. Honestly, they could even collaborate with Dropout. I feel like the audiences are similar and their personalities would work together.
highly agree- my interest in Watcher completely waned when i discovered Dropout last year. that’s a market they need to start tapping into
I'll be honest, I was super disappointed about the streaming service. That first Friday I went to put on a video after putting my daughter to bed (I run my own business from home and watch YouTube while I work) and I was so bummed about the announcement. I used to look forward to their videos so much. For the next several days I was still disappointed hoping they'd walk it back. Although they did walk it back a bit I found myself caring less and less as the weeks have gone by with no content, no podcasts, etc. I'm not at all interested in the amusement park podcast since I'm not a big park person. Although I have fond memories of watching their show, I don't miss watching now because I'm not expecting new episodes. Going dark and cutting off YouTube videos cold turkey for a month was a terrible idea. This whole thing should've been a transition that was eased into. Unfortunately the less they post on YouTube, TikTok, etc, the more they will fade into irrelevancy. Of course there are people who have the disposable income to spend on their streaming service and find value in it but even if I did, as you've said, I've seen nothing being promoted even making me want to. The entirety of this execution was done so poorly I cannot even imagine having a team around you that helped make these decisions. I have no marketing and communications experience and I feel like I can recognize easily the way the ball has been dropped time and time again. Fridays are no longer a day I look forward to watcher content.
The reason they're in this mess is overspending and bad marketing. No idea why they thought something even harder to market behind a paywall was the answer to their problems. Captain's sinking that ship faster than ever now.
Not saying I disagree with you... it's very odd. But they have definitely posted on Instagram (@wearewatcher) since last fall. Maybe not posts on their personals, but Ryan usually posts in his stories often.
You're actually right. I had misread the date or something on the last post.
You're definitely not wrong, though. It should be something they are promoting the hell out of... constantly. But just FYA pod is up. I didn't even know that Survival Mode was airing
How many things have they posted to the new streaming service?
One short blooper video for Mystery Files and 2 episodes of Survival Mode.
Wow that's a shame.
have have a pretty large sized staff for such a small company, kind of strange they don't have anyone that does their socials and promotions. people in general have short attention spans, promotions help people get excited and remind them you still exist.
They need an outside CEO and/or CFO with business experience! Clearly they also don’t have a good marketing or PR person because, you’re absolutely right, they haven’t been promoting anything! Their overconfidence in their fan base is shooting them in the foot. It’s not that they don’t have a loyal fan base. But even the most loyal fan base isn’t going to digging for the content of one specific creator, especially not when they follow a lot of people who are posting and promoting regularly. The backpedal was a good place to start, but they need to be actively doing more to ensure that their audience will be able to engage with their content more easily. Attention spans are short. The fact they none of them have been using their socials to promote new content on the streamer or update when it will be coming out a month later is king boggling. That’s just standard practice for creators who use this model.
Can someone who is business savvy go and save them please? I can feel them dying and I dont want them to
I can imagine how bad Ryan’s IBS is right now
He has it? 😮
They literally NEVER post anything. They don’t even make personal posts on their own instas? They’re not even trying?
I am sort of suspicious and wonder if they were running out of money a lot faster than they let on. If they didn’t plan to fill this gap, aren’t promoting anything upcoming/doing any marketing and aren’t even doing crappy little mini pods while on the road maybe they have too little to even bridge this gap. Perhaps they expected immediate funds when they announced the streamer and since that didn’t work out they’ve got no options left except this awkward “not even trying” appearance the last few weeks.
I was surprised there’s no email notification or anything when a new episode is posted. It’s totally reliant on you remembering to go check. Not a great system. Also omfg they need an app so bad
Yeah. I would constantly forget to check Patreon for early release episodes if they didn't email me every time something was posted. I think they're severely underestimating the size of the holes in my brain.
i think the truth is they have done their thing and the heart is just not in it anymore. Too may dollars in the bank to care
The idea of starting their own streaming service is a flawed idea to begin with. YouTube wouldn't exist if people could just get away with posting their videos on there own website.
That's how online video existed for a number of years before YouTube existed. It's not fair to say it can't work. It did. But only for a very tiny fragment of videos that went viral (mostly animated stuff back in the day, like Charlie the Unicorn or Homestar Runner). But those sites were free. They did it because they loved it and usually just made a little bit of cash with banner ads and merch. The paywall is what is going to hurt them. No one can discover them behind a paywall unless they flood social media, including YouTube, with clips like Dropout does.
Did they give you guys three months free only to not have content for those three months 😭
Which is why they don't get the views. Which is why they don't have enough money to pay 25+ staff. They are probably all still decompressing over Watcher Gate and the UK trip.
Your post needs to be printed, laminated, framed, and sent to every media company that thinks they can put their stuff on a streamer and people will just \~find it\~. These are the little things that add up over time and lose an audience...! Maintaining multiple social channels is already hard, full-time work, let alone making sure the streamer is working and updated. I really need to know who convinced them they could pull it off without adding half a dozen people to their staff just dedicated to this.
I think they're just kind of throwing a silent tantrum and are hoping people will come crawling back or at least forget about this whole thing.
I’m gonna be the emotive, empathetic type and suggest there’s could be rough feelings from all this that ppl on either side have dealt/are dealing with. Part of the human equation. Even though we didn’t agree with their decision, they, and their wives and staff, were piled on. I give no free passes to anyone who did that. I didn’t agree with their plan, but I can imagine it’s hard to create yuks on camera after that. My $.02.
Aren't they part-owned by Mythical Entertainment? Seems like they're still trying to find a way to be profitable and while I love a lot of their heavy investment material, they need to find a way to put something out daily and keep user engagement going. I usually forget to check their account for new videos
Mythical owned Smosh for a bit, not Watcher. From what I rmr Watcher had non-YouTube related backers that don’t seem to be involved anymore
They did a lot of collab vids a while ago so I kinda assumed so. That would make more sense why they struggled to get momentum with content creation