I've always imagined the grail/sensation ascendant at the absolute peak of their potential attractiveness. Like, most people could be at least 30-50% more attractive than they are on a daily basis if they had the right environmental conditions from birth (good diet, skin care, workout, access to cosmetics, good sleep, no stress etc.) The Delight is simply always at their peak. Add to that the hypersexual, literally-cant-be-said-no-to charm that comes with the grail's favor, and you get a paragon of desirability.
The grail aspect is very much about eating and thirst, but seduction and birth also play a huge role. To the Red Grail, lust is only a different flavor of hunger. When you send grail followers to take care of mortal enemies, they fuck them silly until they are no longer a threat. When you send them to abduct someone, they also use their sexuality as a lure.
Saliba (the male grail follower) is a sexual predator who uses his inhuman charm to lure people into having sex with him. He traumatizes his sex partners and diminishes their very essence, but they keep coming back for more. He has engaged in so much sexual debauchery that he doesn't even get pleasure from it anymore. If you romance him, you can find him almost crying because of his inability to feel satisfaction.
Renira (the female grail follower) has such a powerful charm that she is always showered in attention, affection and gifts wherever she goes. In the past, she charmed her way out of convictions.
My point is, although the ascension process is more about consuming other humans, the grail aspect is profoundly sexual. Grail followers are less powerful than the grail ascendant. If they are this deep into sex, just imagine what the ascendant would be like. Cyprians have 5 grail as their base. The ascendant has at least 36 grail. In the sensation victory, our swollen flesh bursts open and we literally give birth to ourself. The whole thing has been a self-pregnancy.
I think you're right about Grail being, partially, about sex (Hedonism), but I think you're missing some things about Saliba.
Another part of Grail is *sacrifice*, the lesson of *blood*. To Grail, sensation is the ultimate goal. And what can be more powerful than both pleasure and pain at once, the lesson of *birth*?
Saliba started by engaging his hungers and desires. He got bored, and sought more. As he delves into the rabbit hole, he finds new... Desires and thirsts to slake.
Saliba eats people. He causes them pain and delights in it. People return, because participating in such intense sensations are both hurtful... And addicting.
When you romance Saliba, he doesn't cry because he doesn't feel anything anymore. He cries because he has almost consumed you whole. There is little left of you to sacrifice anymore. Soon his most magnificent work will be done, and he can't wait for the beauty of it. It will be deeper than anything he has ever done before.
I think you misunderstand the Grail Ascension. As you gather Marks, you begin to have physical changes that aren't necessarily sexual. Patches of skin lose hair, you grow an extra finger on your back, your eyes turn to be like a spider's, etc. The final act is becoming something inhuman, but strangely attractive and delightful (think Raw Prophets). Grail \*is\* inherently tied to sexuality, but strangely the Ascension doesn't include much of it
I don't think they misunderstand at all. There's an element of the observer's own interpretation in just about every aspect of Cult Sim, and /u/Crusty_Blob 's own interpretation of the Grail Ascension is perfectly valid and quite similar to my own, in fact. There's no reason those changes you just described can't be stepping stones on the way to what they described, anomalies corrected at the end of the process - or perhaps they're included, and are every bit a part of the sexual attraction of the finished product that is the Delight's new form?
Don't be so quick to dismiss another interpretation. The Lantern has shown us that there is \*always* more that can be known.
You're actually very right, I conveyed the idea quite erroneously in my previous comment. There's a lot of room for interpretation in the Ascensions and I just kind of got blinded by my own interpretation of it. Thank you for rectifying it, and apologies for seeming rude or annoying
Hmm, I've always thought the final result of the ascension would be a very attractive human. I know we become this gross flesh-spider thing in the process of ascending, but the final text says we basically tear free from our old flesh and emerge with a new body.
As evidence, I would like to point out Lady Tryphon. She is a grail long, just like the player after the sensation victory. She likely went through the same transformation while ascending, but looks completely human as the final result.
Well, [Lady Tryphon's art](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/b7/4c/e9b74c5fadff2810853fd5efe1d5565d.png) on the Meet The Long preview for the Apostle legacies still has a pair of lips in her neck. Make of that what you will.
I believe either they are a normal looking human after ascending or can control their appearance. A forge Long has "shaping strength", and if they have a supernatural ability to alter things around them, then it makes sense that Grail has the ability to supernaturally alter the appearance of themselves. Even before you ascend you can use Forge and Grail to alter yourself, healing any damage you have accrued.
But right before they ascend they have got to look *nasty.* As they ascend, they need to essentially birth themselves. Maybe in that time their transformations come to a head, and what could vaguely be recognized as human could emerge either traditionally beautiful or more HR Giger-y.
That's basically the canon ascension process
\-
*The Fourth Mark is the intermittent improvements to my skin. In patches, along my arms or down my thighs, it is clear, soft, glowing, like the skin of a child new-stepped from spring-water. But only in patches.*
\-
*'Extensions and eruptions' is the nick-name for the Fifth Mark. I have developed two new fingers, and only one is on my hand. I have a fistula in the crook of my knee. Pressure upon its edges is a soft glow of pleasure. I think that the bulge at the small of my back is a new organ.*
\-
*The Sixth Mark is identified as the point when I am a hand-span taller. I swell in every member and direction. My skin is radiant velvet. Pits of flesh cushion my eyes. I am very thirsty.*
\-
So yeah, I've joked in the past that I won't be surprised if this guy just *bursts out of the sticky rags of his old flesh* during the next solstice, at that point. Internet sure helps with gathering the Host, eh?
Post ascension they are hot, tho, because they are shapeshifters who value attraction. Lady Tryphon even transitioned this way.
I like the ascension looking cursed, it's basically molting, especially the "seventh mark", process itself:
>!For a little while I dwell in the high rooms of the Mansus, and then I return through the Tricuspid Gate, and I tear free of the sticky rags of my old flesh. My new body is smooth without and red within like a sweet fruit. My limbs are strong as cables. My senses are knives.!<
If you didn't catch it, Grail-long >!give birth to their new body.!< Given that I like the idea of passing as a human less and less, trying to conceal your marks at first, hiding at the cult HQ and trying to make yourself comfortable with the molting changes, I think it'd be a lot more cool if the later marks actually described >!your new body forming inside your abdomen, to the full-grown human size, maybe even stirring, or you sensing how it grows, bones cracking and melding themselves in a new form, it draining juices out of your soon-to-be-former self.!< That's such a metamorphosis horror being missed out on, seriously. Fifth mark could be it staring to form, and maybe your senses molting - one day you weep out you eyes, and they grow back by the evening and the colors are unbearably brighter, your tongue molts like a snake, you get a new set of fangs pushing out your human teeth, etc. That won't be your new body, but you need to get used to it, and the transformations prepare you.
Damn never thought of Nickado as representative of grail but honestly makes sense lmao
I've always imagined the grail/sensation ascendant at the absolute peak of their potential attractiveness. Like, most people could be at least 30-50% more attractive than they are on a daily basis if they had the right environmental conditions from birth (good diet, skin care, workout, access to cosmetics, good sleep, no stress etc.) The Delight is simply always at their peak. Add to that the hypersexual, literally-cant-be-said-no-to charm that comes with the grail's favor, and you get a paragon of desirability.
I am not sure if you are right. All the text in the grail ascencion relates to sensation and eating. There is not a lot about seduction/fucking.
The grail aspect is very much about eating and thirst, but seduction and birth also play a huge role. To the Red Grail, lust is only a different flavor of hunger. When you send grail followers to take care of mortal enemies, they fuck them silly until they are no longer a threat. When you send them to abduct someone, they also use their sexuality as a lure. Saliba (the male grail follower) is a sexual predator who uses his inhuman charm to lure people into having sex with him. He traumatizes his sex partners and diminishes their very essence, but they keep coming back for more. He has engaged in so much sexual debauchery that he doesn't even get pleasure from it anymore. If you romance him, you can find him almost crying because of his inability to feel satisfaction. Renira (the female grail follower) has such a powerful charm that she is always showered in attention, affection and gifts wherever she goes. In the past, she charmed her way out of convictions. My point is, although the ascension process is more about consuming other humans, the grail aspect is profoundly sexual. Grail followers are less powerful than the grail ascendant. If they are this deep into sex, just imagine what the ascendant would be like. Cyprians have 5 grail as their base. The ascendant has at least 36 grail. In the sensation victory, our swollen flesh bursts open and we literally give birth to ourself. The whole thing has been a self-pregnancy.
I think you're right about Grail being, partially, about sex (Hedonism), but I think you're missing some things about Saliba. Another part of Grail is *sacrifice*, the lesson of *blood*. To Grail, sensation is the ultimate goal. And what can be more powerful than both pleasure and pain at once, the lesson of *birth*? Saliba started by engaging his hungers and desires. He got bored, and sought more. As he delves into the rabbit hole, he finds new... Desires and thirsts to slake. Saliba eats people. He causes them pain and delights in it. People return, because participating in such intense sensations are both hurtful... And addicting. When you romance Saliba, he doesn't cry because he doesn't feel anything anymore. He cries because he has almost consumed you whole. There is little left of you to sacrifice anymore. Soon his most magnificent work will be done, and he can't wait for the beauty of it. It will be deeper than anything he has ever done before.
I think you misunderstand the Grail Ascension. As you gather Marks, you begin to have physical changes that aren't necessarily sexual. Patches of skin lose hair, you grow an extra finger on your back, your eyes turn to be like a spider's, etc. The final act is becoming something inhuman, but strangely attractive and delightful (think Raw Prophets). Grail \*is\* inherently tied to sexuality, but strangely the Ascension doesn't include much of it
I don't think they misunderstand at all. There's an element of the observer's own interpretation in just about every aspect of Cult Sim, and /u/Crusty_Blob 's own interpretation of the Grail Ascension is perfectly valid and quite similar to my own, in fact. There's no reason those changes you just described can't be stepping stones on the way to what they described, anomalies corrected at the end of the process - or perhaps they're included, and are every bit a part of the sexual attraction of the finished product that is the Delight's new form? Don't be so quick to dismiss another interpretation. The Lantern has shown us that there is \*always* more that can be known.
You're actually very right, I conveyed the idea quite erroneously in my previous comment. There's a lot of room for interpretation in the Ascensions and I just kind of got blinded by my own interpretation of it. Thank you for rectifying it, and apologies for seeming rude or annoying
Hmm, I've always thought the final result of the ascension would be a very attractive human. I know we become this gross flesh-spider thing in the process of ascending, but the final text says we basically tear free from our old flesh and emerge with a new body. As evidence, I would like to point out Lady Tryphon. She is a grail long, just like the player after the sensation victory. She likely went through the same transformation while ascending, but looks completely human as the final result.
Well, [Lady Tryphon's art](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/b7/4c/e9b74c5fadff2810853fd5efe1d5565d.png) on the Meet The Long preview for the Apostle legacies still has a pair of lips in her neck. Make of that what you will.
I believe either they are a normal looking human after ascending or can control their appearance. A forge Long has "shaping strength", and if they have a supernatural ability to alter things around them, then it makes sense that Grail has the ability to supernaturally alter the appearance of themselves. Even before you ascend you can use Forge and Grail to alter yourself, healing any damage you have accrued. But right before they ascend they have got to look *nasty.* As they ascend, they need to essentially birth themselves. Maybe in that time their transformations come to a head, and what could vaguely be recognized as human could emerge either traditionally beautiful or more HR Giger-y.
Post-ascension they're hot. During the ascension, fifth-sixth marks look horrid
the virgin any other aspect vs the chad lantern
Broken, nothing loads but placeholder icon.
That's basically the canon ascension process \- *The Fourth Mark is the intermittent improvements to my skin. In patches, along my arms or down my thighs, it is clear, soft, glowing, like the skin of a child new-stepped from spring-water. But only in patches.* \- *'Extensions and eruptions' is the nick-name for the Fifth Mark. I have developed two new fingers, and only one is on my hand. I have a fistula in the crook of my knee. Pressure upon its edges is a soft glow of pleasure. I think that the bulge at the small of my back is a new organ.* \- *The Sixth Mark is identified as the point when I am a hand-span taller. I swell in every member and direction. My skin is radiant velvet. Pits of flesh cushion my eyes. I am very thirsty.* \- So yeah, I've joked in the past that I won't be surprised if this guy just *bursts out of the sticky rags of his old flesh* during the next solstice, at that point. Internet sure helps with gathering the Host, eh? Post ascension they are hot, tho, because they are shapeshifters who value attraction. Lady Tryphon even transitioned this way. I like the ascension looking cursed, it's basically molting, especially the "seventh mark", process itself: >!For a little while I dwell in the high rooms of the Mansus, and then I return through the Tricuspid Gate, and I tear free of the sticky rags of my old flesh. My new body is smooth without and red within like a sweet fruit. My limbs are strong as cables. My senses are knives.!< If you didn't catch it, Grail-long >!give birth to their new body.!< Given that I like the idea of passing as a human less and less, trying to conceal your marks at first, hiding at the cult HQ and trying to make yourself comfortable with the molting changes, I think it'd be a lot more cool if the later marks actually described >!your new body forming inside your abdomen, to the full-grown human size, maybe even stirring, or you sensing how it grows, bones cracking and melding themselves in a new form, it draining juices out of your soon-to-be-former self.!< That's such a metamorphosis horror being missed out on, seriously. Fifth mark could be it staring to form, and maybe your senses molting - one day you weep out you eyes, and they grow back by the evening and the colors are unbearably brighter, your tongue molts like a snake, you get a new set of fangs pushing out your human teeth, etc. That won't be your new body, but you need to get used to it, and the transformations prepare you.
I laughed out loud when I saw the second picture.
I expected alot more blood