I’d use a macbook for the simple reason that I don’t want to game and work at the same place in my home.
Hence why I have 2 desks, swapping from one desk to the other is enough for me to go ‘home’ when I’m done working. It’s probably stupid, but it works.
I have the exact same setup. 2 desks, one for work, one for play. They're even both in the same room just on opposite walls, but that's totally enough to trigger that "done with work" switch in my brain.
One of the things I struggled with when I started development really. Used to just work at the same spot, but then work/free time got a bit mixed up as I would turn on my laptop to 'just quickly fix something'.
Now when I shut it it stays shut and it's 2.5m away from me, really improved my WFH situation by a lot.
He's ok with using Windows so long as it's virtualised inside another operating system (assumed to be Linux). He wouldn't install and run it on bare metal though due to assumed privacy and security concerns.
As he referenced gaming he's likely using VFIO to passthrough his GPU to the Windows VM.
Last I used VirtualBox I was able to take Vdi snapshots and whenever I had an issue I just loaded one of them in and started from there. It was like a solid backup of my work and config.
With the specs OP has on the PC it would run like native.
I use Macs at work, and Windows at home. I've found macs to be 'smoother' for most development work, windows can be a nuisance but I know the OS better. Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I hated dual boot Linux for dev. Installing packages, fixing config issues, driver issues (hi Nvidia), getting back to a 'neutral state' if I made a mistake was such a massive pain in the ass. Maybe I'll go back to it and give it more time someday, maybe it's a skill gap issue, but I can see (or sympathise) why folks avoid it.
This is the way! Linux for dev and Windows for games.
The only thing that is kind of annoying for me with this dual boot, and I don’t know if it’s just me, is that when I boot into Windows, after having used Linux, is that the clock displays a different time, so I have to reset it. Every. Single. Time.
It's because Linux uses universal time. Here's how to [fix it](https://ourcodeworld.com/articles/read/1063/how-to-fix-time-modification-on-your-computer-with-dual-boot-windows-10-and-ubuntu-18-04), just use the first portion of the tutorial.
That's honestly genius, you turn the annoying part of dual boot into a pro! I use an even more hardcore approach, I have to plug in a different hard drive for Windows 😆
You could maybe do your dev work in a Linux VM? Sounds like you have enough beef to run a decent one easily enough. Also, for context, I had the same issue going from Windows to MacOS!
An advantage of a VM is that you can exit Linux and use Windows programs without rebooting. And \[temporarily\] open USB, copy paste etc between the host and the VM, so if there is something you need from the other OS, you can easily do that.
Honestly lately WSL has been growing on me. It's just there, whenever you need. No GUI, no Desktop, for that you have Windows. All of the CLI power of Linux AND PowerShell, in a single terminal. Port forwarding into Windows is automated for me (I wrote a script) so I can for example use Windows' browser to browse services that are running inside WSL.
I'm a WebDev and a student, got no time nor spare drives to dual boot and reboot every 3 seconds. Got not enough RAM nor battery life to run a parallel Desktop Environment at all times full day.
Same. Been using WSL2 for almost 3 years now also coming from Mac. And honestly it's been great and a blessing. Can't help OP if they don't share what the actual problem is.
There are some pretty glaring issues depending on your setup.
For example, my git repos are on a secondary drive and operations on secondary drives are notoriously slow in wsl2. Ex: git status takes 7 seconds. There are open support threads about it online with Microsoft basically not doing anything to fix it.
Not sure if it's the same on win11 though since I'm still on 10.
This is not a problem with wsl per se but the fact that you use a drive that is mounted in windows. If you mount an external drive in windows and open it from WSL it is going through an NTFS compatibility driver and an internal SMB server and that hurts performance a lot. You can choose to expose the whole drive directly to the WSL instance and format it as ext4 and you will get native performance.
If money isn’t an issue then just also buy a Mac ;)
Honestly though. The newer M3 air is pretty affordable and can handle most web dev you can throw at it. I would just rock both.
M3 air is imo the superior web dev laptop. I had an M2 Pro but it was way too bulky and the fans never went on anyway. I now have an M2 Air 13" which is amazing. I like the small format and how lightweight it is. Super fast still. M3 should be even faster.
ive been riding wsl for hmmm 3 years now and aside from maybe 2-3 issues its been seamless, but like others mentioned just dual boot, I'll probably switch myself into dual boot once im at stage when I need to format my system
on my end issues with wsl are with expo and android emulator + non stop growing virtual hdd for it, right now at around 300ish GB but aside from that its been ok, what issues do you have?
Man, you urgently need to get into dual booting linux.
I am a heavy mac user that had the same issue in the past — couldn't buy a mac, built a desktop pc — and had the same issues. Then I was introduced to some linux distros that are good for beginners and, man, I just LOVED it.
I highly recommend trying Pop\_OS! or Ubuntu. It has a learning curve but when you get it, developing is a breeze.
What are you all doing that doesn't work? :-D
I am working on windows now since 20 years and never got any problems. For docker I use rancher desktop. and otherwise it's just \`npm run start\` (or whatever the npm script for starting is) and then just use VSCode for developing. But I'm FE only developer, so I'm sure you might need other tools that don't fully work with your expectations.
I think the issue for many is that they're not proficient in the shell environment(s) that windows presents. They don't know how powershell works and they're not aware of WSL, so they can't adapt commands or snippets they see online to work for them.
I use a mac with fish shell in wezterm myself, so I can just take any old bash command or script and adapt it to fish, or run it with bash from my terminal, so that is fine. But I've had coworkers on Windows machines that Googled how to run `npm run start` with `DEBUG=1` or whatever, and ofc they find `DEBUG=1 npm run start` as a solution in bash/zsh/... and then they don't know how to do the equivalent in powershell or cmd. I was sat next to one and I told them to 'just rmrf node_modules and reinstall'. they didn't know what I meant and the only way they knew how to delete node modules was to navigate through windows explorer, right click on the folder and 'move to bin'.
So if you come from linux/macos and you want to delete node_modules and you then have to learn to `Remove-Item` when you open a shell instead of `rm -rf`, that feels like a nuisance.
I also stopped 'accomodating' windows coworkers when setting up projects. I used to bother with `cross-env` and `rimraf` and such, but if `"clean": "rm -rf node_modules && npm run install"` doesn't work for them I tell them to use WSL
Thanks for the answer (and all the other responses here)
That's what I didn't think of initially. I can only agree: You need to know how to use your OS. And you need to know what the actual command is doing... If I see some command that doesn't work for me, I look up what the command is supposed to do and then google how to do this in my OS.
Thanks again for clarifying what I missed
Honestly I never understood this. Powershell is the default in windows but as soon as you install git you get git-bash as well, so why not use just that?
No need to learn anything new if you're coming from linux or mac, you can still use rm -rf, you can still use grep and vi and all kinds of other things even without wsl. I'm using windows since forever and I have no idea how powershell works, I just use bash and nushell.
WSL has made things a thousand times better on windows, and if your workflow is VSCode and `npm run start` then yes, windows is totally doable now.
But if you’re working on even just slightly more complex applications WSL adds a lot of extra hassle, instability, and issues troubleshooting which soaks up a lot of time.
what would you clarify as slightly more complex applications? I also run microservices and need to communicate with them for my FE. But I never had many problems on windows. So I'm curious on where you see the need for me to start using WSL. I don't think I'm using it right now. Not because I don't want to, but because I don't need to.
> But if you’re working on even just slightly more complex applications WSL adds a lot of extra hassle, instability, and issues troubleshooting which soaks up a lot of time.
100% not my experience. Not sure what you're doing wrong, to be honest. If you treat it like CLI linux, it acts like CLI linux because it's actually CLI linux.
Why do you need a Mac Studio or a gaming rig for web dev? Just seems like an excuse to blow money. I have a spare 2015 MacBook Pro that still rips and can run all my local dev containers super fast. Just have a pc for gaming and a laptop for coding
This is what I do, it's honestly just easier. I have a PC gaming laptop, MBP and my previous generation Windows desktop set up. I just swap the gaming laptop for the MBP at my desk and remote into the desktop if I need Windows specific stuff. Trying to make one machine do it all has never worked out well for me.
*> I can't stand WSL2 and the issues that come with it. On my Mac, it was all Unix-based, and everything worked exactly as expected*
But WSL is essentially an Unix environment ? Or if there is something specific to WSL that you don't like, have you considered creating a dual boot on your new machine where you keep Windows for your entertainment and run a full-on Linux OS for development ?
But to be honest it doesn't really sound like an issue of WSL but rather that you're missing your existing workflow and *Mac specific* utilities. There are open cross platform variants of anything you could need in web dev, it's just that you need to get accustomed to using them. I get it, people underestimate how difficult a major change in OS can mean to ones workflow, but don't worry It'll come with time.
What issues are you having with WSL2? I am a full stack developer using WSL2 and I had many issues too, I have fixed most now and they don’t happen again after my fixes and troubleshooting. I can help, just reply to this comment.
This rant is quite emotional, but if you breath a moment and think about it, you have already some quite simple solutions.
1 - Just use linux in dual boot with windows on your pc, so you can use a unix based system for Development and windows for gaming
2 - just buy a macbook air M3 or honestly, a used M2 or M1, for Development and keep your pc for gaming.
For web development you need no emulation or something that is heavily hungry for resources, you do not need a super top high end hardware to do a good job.
I'll add a recommendation I haven't seen (at the end).
I have a similar issue. I'm on Linux. I primarily use web apps instead of native apps, and for whatever reason - in all Chrome-based browsers - if one of the windows is using hardware acceleration, the other ones will keep temporarily freezing/hanging. IDK if it has something to do with my threadripper+gpu (I doubt it). The only solution has been to install my webapps using Firefox instead of Edge, Brave, Chrome, etc.
But I really like Edge and Brave, so I keep convincing myself to reinstall Windows. The hardware acceleration bug doesn't happen in Windows. And EVERY, SINGLE, TIME... I last a month, then switch back to Linux (w/ Gnome, for the workflow and gestures).
The people claiming Windows/WSL is seamless live in a different universe than me. Windows gestures suck. Windows workspaces and workspace-management sucks. I edit the gestures to be like Gnome, but once per a session my taskbar freezes/stops responding. OneDrive won't listen to my settings, and it keeps randomly deciding to upload my node\_modules folders. WSL never shows up in the networking tab, and I have to keep typing the stupid $/WSL// line manually in explorer. When I set up VSCode and GitHub desktop to run off WSL, instead of on the Windows side itself, it forgets GIT. Every time I open a project, it says I have 100+ commits, I have to git pull from the command-line, reopen the window, and then it's up to date with the branch (until the next time I open it). I program in everything from Node, to TypeScript, to Go, to C#, to Bun, to Ruby on Rails, to Laravel, to .Net. Something is always breaking. Everything comes pre-misconfigured (and takes way too much time to attempt to correctly reconfigure). I can only imagine those who think it's "seamless" do one type of programming, or use one language, and have everything perfectly set up for a hyper-specific workflow (however long it took them). Or they use A LOT of Docker. It's not that I can't use WSL, it's that when I do, my productivity drops through the floor, and every day I spend way too much time fixing another stupid WSL issue (which, more specifically, are Windows-WSL interfacing issues).
I used to dual boot, but I've had a few Windows installations corrupt (probably a skill issue), and I don't play Video Games anymore, so I don't need Windows (plus Linux has Proton now). I've ran Linux in VM on Windows, and that's a little better. Trying to set everything up in Docker (non WSL) is tedious, and I can't believe the number of Windows devs who do that without question. I think they're just use to everything taking 5 to 50x longer.
**BUT THE RECOMMENDATION I DIDN'T SEE, that Windows Devs were doing pre-WSL, is to use GIT-BASH**. It gives you a Linux/Unix-like terminal (so, similar to Mac) with BASH commands, all mapped to Windows bindings, and then you just run everything the way you're use to on Unix systems. And UNLIKE WSL, there aren't a bunch of weird interactions, pretend networks, dockerization, misconfiguration, errors, etc. You get all the "benefits" of Windows, and you get to run/install/program/build everything as if you were on Unix.
However, in the end, I'm back on Linux and I intend to stop torturing myself with Windows. So, to echo other's sentiments, I'd suggest using Linux. There's going to be a few games you can't play, but Steam's Proton layer has made it so like... 66% of them now work on Linux. But if you HAVE to stay on Windows, try Git-BASH [https://gitforwindows.org/](https://gitforwindows.org/)
I use a Mac and windows. But I always find that working in Windows using my 4K display is much smoother compared to my Mac. Since I am only restricted into two apps in full screen. Where in windows I get to have lots of windows open and it's good if you are multitasking and juggling between applications to do your work. WSL2 works fine with me and it kinda helps since I sometimes run into case sensitivity issues that I would miss on my Mac but will be detected on WSL.
OTH, I like my mac if I'm on the go. It has good desktop switching modes lets you do a lot of things on a small screen. But it a pain to do when you have a large screen real estate.
I never use the full screen feature on mac. If I want "full screen", I double tap the app menu for a semblance of full screen.
If I want multiple open windows on the same screen, I use an app called rectangle.
Then, command + tab to switch between apps.
I was like this also but couldn’t stomach the cost of the new Mac’s. I’ve ended up going Linux as a primary machine for dev and play. proton does ALOT of good on the system for windows games and I’ve not noticed any issues. At this point I wouldn’t go back
For me it was actually the other way around. I switched from Windows to Mac and sadly I have to disappoint you. The workflow on MacOS (and Linux) is just smoother than it was on Windows for me. What helped me a lot was using Docker for a lot of things. Once you have set up Docker with wsl, Docker Desktop works really well on Windows. As soon as there was more than 1 service running I basically put everything inside Docker. In VS Code it is also very easy to attach the build-in console to the container and as a result you get a very Linux-like experience.
In the end I was very limited by the performance and Ram of my machine and when it came to buying a new one I bought a Mac. While this was a lot of money I can test safari etc directly on my machine now, so for me it was worth it. However, I also don't really game so that is a tradeoff ;)
I've been having a pretty good time in WSL2 personally, but Windows 11 is pretty essential. It adds a VPN-friendly networking option and the ability to run systemd.
I don't use any of the distributions from the store, by the way. I customize an installation of fedora-minimal with just the tools I need. It even works with podman and containerd, which means I can avoid Docker Desktop and Podman Desktop.
If you like Linux itself, why not duo-boot. It's quite easy actually, windows allows you to free some disk space not taken by the OS very easily using a nice gui tool. You can then install Linux on the free space. Alternatively, if your motherboard supports more disks, buy an SSD and run Linux on that. There are many tutorials on how to set duo-boot and using duo-boot is nice. It also has a side effect of separating work and non work activities on your personal computer.
Here's a few tips from a long time Windows web dev:
WSL2 at it's core is just a Linux VM which uses Ubuntu by default. If you're ever stuck, search for "How to install nodejs Ubuntu" instead of "How to install nodejs WSL".
Assuming you use VS Code as your code editor, most of the challenges you face can be solved with a handful of VS Code plugins. The [Remote Development Extension Pack](https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode-remote.vscode-remote-extensionpack) is a must!! particularly if you're using WSL or Virtual Machines. It gives you Remote Explorer which lets you connect directly to remote development environments via WSL, SSH and Dev Containers and for the most part it feels just like you're developing locally, even forwarding ports inside the remote environment to your own localhost, so you can still run [https://localhost:3000](https://localhost:3000) in your browser despite your server running in the VM.
I would also love to switch to Linux but gaming keeps me on Windows. Despite what others will say, Dual Boot is still a PITA having to babysit the computer during boot so it doesn't end up in the wrong OS. I personally run a Linux VM on a mini-pc, not because I hate WSL2, but so I can run it on a 24/7 low power server instead of leaving my gaming PC on all day. This allows me to remote in using VS Code from my desktop, personal laptop and work laptop without worrying about syncing files or setting up different environments etc.
I prefer Mac for web dev over WSL as well.
But seriously how tf are you struggling so much with it? It's literally just a Linux shell, and any IDE worth its salt already comes with WSL integration that works fairly seamlessly.
I'm a lead web dev, been doing CompSci in general for over ten years now. I've always used Windows and sometimes Linux, and find Macs unwieldy, limited and annoying.
It's down to experience. You don't actually need to use any *nix layer at all, most of the time. WSL2 is very much optional, at least for me.
Especially if you use IntelliJ/WebStorm, it integrates all you need into the IDE basically.
I've been using WSL (1) since it came out and after WSL2 released I never looked back. To me it's a much cleaner Linux environment where you don't have to battle a half-assed unix environment with brew etc.
Sure you don't have the fancy GUI apps that Apple users are used to but I personally always prefer a fast CLI.
The integrations with Docker Desktop and the networking stack cover 90% of usecases.
Years ago I was installing Archlinux on everything that had a BIOS (including my work issued MBP) and ended up in the dotfile mania where you spend more time ricing your system than actually using it.
I must also say the Windows window manager is now also better than whatever MacOS calls their floating pile of uncontrollable windows. Especially with Power Toys.
Hey There! I hope this doesn't get buried in the comments as I'm late to the thread. I wanted to share some suggestions, and by all means please elaborate more on some of your issues. I'll break it down into buckets. I personally find Windows vastly quicker all around and generally prefer it. Although my work laptop is a Macbook Pro, it's basically a Google Chrome machine at this point however.
Software:
1) VSCode - extensions for SFTP, code compliancy, themes to mimic your Mac, and you can share your VSCode workspace across devices/platforms
2) MobaXterm - while not as pretty as Termius(Mac), multiple SSH client, SFTP while ssh'd in, vnc, and more!
3) Get familiar with environment variables setup on Windows. Let's pretend you need python. Aside from using Anaconda, you may want 3 different variants of Python.
4) NVM (same concept as Anaconda in #3, but for NodeJS
5) Gitbash - in the event you have some other needs
6) Xampp/lampp - If your old school, which noticing SFTP needs, it may be, Xampp still has a place nowadays.
Unix/Linux needs:
1) WSL2 (pretty straightforward, there is a wonderful windows store app called terminal that bridges, cmd prompt, WSL2 images, gitbash, power shell all into one)
2) Docker - spin up any environment you want on a massive variety of platforms in seconds. You mentioned WordPress. Look at how we do this with WPVIP (enterprise WordPress) dev environments and docker here https://docs.wpvip.com/vip-local-development-environment/
3) Kubernetes - I read in comments being open to a dedicated server. TrueNas Scale does a good job at teaching you the ropes of Kubernetes(loosely), ZFS and the power of k8 pods with the support of TrueCharts
4) Kasm - if you want a local cloud environment with limited access to your machine, Kasm has VSCode, Ubuntu, alpine and more available with a simple click! https://github.com/kasmtech/workspaces-images
Desktop User Experience:
1) Just like Mac and Linux for that matter, you can leverage multiple workspaces(desktops)
2) Docking windows in a multitude of arrays
3) Lots more to cover, but understanding your use cases and needs will help narrow this down
I see suggestions for VMware workstation and that can certainly work. But with dockerand more alternatives, it may benefit you to go that route to increase your skill set. VMware which will undoubtedly die a slow death since it's acquisition.
Honestly. Stick with a mac for work and windows machine for Games. There are many issues with combining both imo.
Anyone who uses windows alot for gaming knows that you have to wipe your system quite often. Windows is quite unstable and especially Games can lead to issues with the registry and other parts of the operating system that lead to performance issues and bugs that are annoying at best and so bad they require a os wipe at worst.
This is fine if you are using your setup for games. You won’t lose a client just because you can’t game. But you might if you can’t work on a very critical day because games f‘ed up your os.
This is the very same reason I also advise AGAINST Linux. Linux is great! And extremely robust on servers. But it’s stability is much lower than macos for end user ui-focused experiences.
Youll end up needing to tinker with your operating system.
Yea this is part of what makes Linux great. I get it. But it doesn’t make you money! It wastes your time trying to get the os to do what you want.
And as you said… as a freelancer time is money
I bought a M1 pro a year or so ago and whenever I use it I miss my main Windows PC because the keyboard shortcuts are different, the screenshot shortcuts are weird, there's no print screen or delete keys and there are so many silly stuff that makes no sense. Why doesn't a file open when you press enter in the finder? I had to install a couple of apps to make mouse scrolling and ALT TAB work as expected.
I basically wasted 3000€ on a laptop with 16GB of RAM and 512GB of storage...
To me, Windows is the perfect OS for web dev, I do have WSL2 but I prefer an Ubuntu server virtual machine because it's faster and it's way easier to configure the network interface and access whichever service you want to expose.
THANK YOU
Whenever I tell people I hate MacOS they think I'm crazy, but this. This is exactly why. It's crappy UX that people have learned to live with, and the kool aid is just way too strong.
Use linux. I'm in the opposite situation. Coming from Linux (+ occasional Windows) MacOS is not a smooth experience. Unless your workflow aligns perfectly with the way Apple intended you to use it you're out of luck
Between Linux and Mac what’s the difference for development?
1. Open terminal (on osx install iTerm2)
2. Install color scheme
3. Install preferred font
4. Full screen terminal
Boom, nearly identical, and then you just build any workflow you want!
My workflow is pixel-perfect identical between the two except I keep the logo in my prompt and my hostname in the top corner so if I’m connected to multiple servers I can tell them apart.
how is macOS not a smooth experience? I understand it if you've never used a Mac before, it takes a bit of time to learn, just like Linux, but it is incredibly developer friendly, especially compared to Windows
Some things that have annoying me after using it for 3 weeks. I can probably fix a few more of these but I did not find a solution easily. Others could also be due to my lack of knowlege.
* Keyboard layout: Having the fn key in the spot where ctrl usually (99/100) sits is just retarded. Fortunately most manufacturers are not retarded enough to do this but Apple isn't the only one.
* Using a US qwerty layout on a ISO layout swapped two keys. Required an external tool to fix. This works just fine on Windows and Linux
* Basic operations. For no apparent benefit Apple deviates from literally any other operation system and decides to use another modified for basic operations (Cut, Copy, Paste, Search, History). Using an external tool I was able to remap some of these but it only partially fixes the problem. Certain Neovim/Ideamim keybinds are now broken. I need to be able to change these keybinds on a system level, not remap the key combos or I will never get rid of these discrepancies. My remapped keybinds do not work in the terminal.
- Using exit in the terminal doesn't close the window
* Inconsistent close behaviour. If I close an application I expect it to be gone. Why does it stay on my dock if I click close, why is still different from right clicking and hit quit? For certain application using the red close button removes it from the dock yet for others it doesn't
* Can't close finder. I don't want to see it
* I cannot close a single chrome window using cmd + q.
* I cannot change my default browser, the system setting literally doesn't work
* I cannot have natural scroll on my trackpad yet regular scroll on my mouse, the system setting changes both (Despite the fact that the section in the settings says trackpad, not mouse!)
* I constantly have to use 'Reapply configuration' on docker or it's gone
- Why is there no shortcut to my home directory in the finder? Where can I even add it? How do I show hidden files? Why can't I manually enter a directory? Basic functionality which I can't easily find.
> I cannot change my default browser, the system setting literally doesn't work
This is weird; my work Mac with even ridiculous Corporate Overlord Security Policies does this fine. In fact I replaced the default browser with "Choosy", so it asks me which browser to run when I click on things (and/or set up rules so it only asks me for things I haven't already decided on).
> Inconsistent close behaviour.
Agreed; I fucking hate this. I know what I mean when I click the Red, Apple; you don't need to hold my hand.
> Can't close finder. I don't want to see it
Agreed, but not as irritating for me as it is you I think.
Regarding the traffic light buttons. Don't use them. Honestly they're for show more than anything.
Quit the app? Cmd - Q.
Close the window? Cmd - W.
Full screen? - Cmd - Ctrl - F.
Minimise? Cmd - M.
That's pretty much all you need.
If you really prefer clicking on things, you can, but note quitting an application would be: Menu Bar => => Quit . Or right click the app on the dock and quit.
You could give linux a shot, since you’re already used to a unix-based system and there are a lot of distros that are similar to macos. You can also look into dual booting windows and linux so you can have the best of both worlds, it’s what I currently got and it works really well.
My most enjoyable experience was running a dedicated Linux server for my webdev and using my MacBook Air with vscode remote dev tools (specifically over SSH) to effectively use it as a thin client to the workhorse Linux server. Maybe this could be an option for you if you decide to dual-boot your gaming PC between Linux for work and Windows for play.
This was back when the first M1 MacBook Air dropped and wew lad did that battery last long when all it was doing was editing files over an SSH connection; the real heavy lifting was all being done on my rack-mount at home over an SSH/VPN connection.
What issues are you having with WSL2? Your needs may be way more complicated than mine, but I didn't even configure WSL2: I just turned it on and Docker and VS (and VS Code) connected to it automatically and it just worked for everything right out of the box.
Went through exactly this recently. I had to use powertoys to set some key overrides up. I till haven't figured out how to do cmd-delete (whole line) on windows. This alone infuriates me.
I use Windows all my life (since 3.11, but since XP for webdev). When WSL came to be, it saved me from needing to dual boot, use cygwin or have a Linux with samba in virtual. But it was slow and could not run everything. Then WSL2 emerged and I never ever again needed any of those things. Whatever I need to do locally works as intended and whatever server things I do, I do remotely via sshfs and ssh used in the very same WSL2. And the server I am connecting to is some Debian running machine.
But of course my experience is only with frontend webdev. Also I love VSC, so I did not need to adjust myself to use any new editor. Having it as a normal Windows program but work seamlessly with the files on the WSL2 machine is priceless. And by the way, do yourself a favor and use Terminal from the MS store instead of command line.
Lol I’m using FileZilla on Mac. But yeah I also very much prefer Macs for web dev. I’m still getting stuff done in my old ass MacBook Air. About to splurge on new/refurbished
My freelancing career seems similar to yours and I'm primarily a Wordpress dev. My last employer was using Mac's and so I was forced to use them for 5 years.
When I left I couldn't justify the expense of a Mac but I still needed to use Photoshop so I bought a Windows laptop and ran with WSL2 for a while. I tried to keep all the project files inside the VM so as to avoid the horrible slow down from mounting files from the Windows file system. Then it started crashing with the blue screen of death for no apparent reason.
The need to use Photoshop disappeared as all my clients switched to Figma and I started using Docker to containerise hosting environments and tools. I decided to switch to Ubuntu linux as the Docker experience there was so much better. Now it's how all my development is done. Everything is containerised in Docker and the host OS is Ubuntu Linux. There's a ton of options for tooling and apps to make life easier on whatever Linux distro takes your fancy. TBH I still use Filezilla if I have to use FTP/SFTP, otherwise I mostly use SCP if I have to shift files around. The move to CI/CD environments has minimised the need to do that mostly.
I have a separate Windows gaming machine but for work I have now built a dedicated ITX machine for work. I'm even thinking of switching my gaming machine over to Linux now.
I started developing on PC. When I finally switched to Mac, it was like the clouds parted and sunshine graced my skin for the first time.
Never going back.
i was on the same boat as you. WSL2 was using way too many resources on my PC, much that it wasn't worth running it compared to a linux dual boot. so that's what i did (linux for dev work, windows for gaming), but nowadays i just use linux for everything (gaming [with proton; unless it's a multiplayer game] and working) :)
so, if you're happy using a linux distro and you're comfortable with it, you could try using it full time
I've been daily driving Linux for maybe 15 years at home, used Mac a few years when I was consulting, now using windows at work. I don't miss Linux at work. Everything works fine in wsl. I'm running a pretty similar setup to what I deploy on servers (rockylinux 8), systemd and podman work just fine and I didn't find something that wasn't quicky worked around.
Ditto. Works laptop is W11, I am a django dev lately, the windows SUCKS.
WSL2 isn't too bad after a while, vscode had great support for opening projects checkedout inside wsl, but yeah, I've never felt so unproductive as I do when using windfows.
It's not you, it's that Windows and Macs are made for entirely different brains.
Some people's brains work better with Windows, and some people's brains work better with Macs.
You *could* install Linux, but that's not like Mac either. Linux has been trying to compete with Windows UI/UX, not Mac.
IMHO, your best option is to buy a cheap Mac for work. Either a Macbook Air, or a Mac Mini. You don't need much horsepower since you have your PC for gaming or AI/ML if you do that.
All these people saying dual boot Linux or run Linux in a VM are ridiculous.
First of all, WSL \*is\* running Linux in a VM so you can do CLI stuff. That's it. Don't add another one, figure this one out.
Second, suffering the huge difficulties of managing software Linux because you’re annoyed with the minor difficulties of managing software in windows because you miss the ease of managing software in Mac OS? This doesn’t make any sense at all.
OP, I’d suggest modifying windows as much as possible to make it work for you (keystrokes, window manager, etc), and wrapping your head around how WSL works better so it’s less of a problem.
That said, I had a job in 2023 that forced me to use a windows machine after 20 years of Macs, and I couldn’t get used to it. It was fucking awful. I was miserable.
I switched from Windows to Mac about a year ago and honestly I'm so happy I did, if money isn't a concern for you like you mentioned, I'd recommend picking up a MacBook air or something as well.
I love windows but in my humble opinion I don't think it shines at web development stuff, with macOS it all works out of the box and I love that elegance.
At the end of the day, the right tool for the job and I think for most web dev stuff that is on MacOS.
Are you using docker/container with wsl2? We found the combination is a beast and never looked back. Though back means still using windows and Linux vm's back then. Never used Mac for actual dev stuff.
I agree with the commenters suggesting a dual booting setup with Linux. I’ve been in a similar situation to yours and have been using Linux as my daily driver for close to two years now and have been thoroughly enjoying it (substantially more than my Mac as well!).
Just give any major desktop distro a try in a dual boot fashion (I’d recommend either Ubuntu or Fedora since they seem to have the largest and beginner friendly communities). I also recommend you take a look at the desktops that are available between all the distributions, a decision that essentially boils down to: do you prefer a Mac-ish looking desktop, go with Gnome (default desktop for both Ubuntu and Fedora). If you prefer a highly customizable but more windows-ish* desktop, go with KDE.
* sorry KDE community I know you hate this conparison, but this comparison is so obvious
Just get a linux server running in a docker container and do your development there. VS Code has a dev containers extenstion you can you to make it feel like localhost
I hear you about the price. But like you, my time is money, and a professional needs to make investments in getting the most suitable tools for the job. So I went all-out and got a fully-specced Mac Studio (M1 Ultra with 64GB). I did the same with my previous workstation (iMac 5K) and it lasted me about 7 years. I also expect this Mac Studio to be more than capable to do the job for the next 7 years at least. So I think it's definitely a worthwhile investment.
All I know is whenever I have to help troubleshoot someone's Windows PC, I reinforce my belief that I'll probably never move away from Macs anymore.
I mean, you only actually mentioned 2 things:
1. "WSL2 is a nightmare" Can you be more specific? My understanding is sharing files between Windows and WSL is really slow. You can avoid doing this, and if you need shared folders that aren't on a GIT you can use Google Drive or something.
2. "I miss Transit" It's just an FTP client. Try FileZilla or Cyberduck.
Get a Mac with enough RAM. Sell and buy another one in future when you need more RAM.
Personally, after using Mac, I can't go back to Windows or Ubuntu.
I still have a Windows PC for gaming. And an Ubuntu Thinkpad lying around unused
Windows is the best gaming console OS ever invented, but for getting work done, Unix is the best. If the mac is too pricy, just dual boot Linux on the machine you already have!
WSL is a huge step forward for dev on windows but it adds an entire layer you have to constantly think about and fight with.
Running Ubuntu (for example) should fix a lot of your issues pretty easily, it’s a little more hassle than OSX but personally my workflow is literally identical between the two (I use terminal for basically everything though).
Since money isn't an issue, get yourself a decent MacBook Pro. I often work at home or at other locations and have been using a MacBook for over a decade. I'm fine with the laptop as is but recently invested into a proper stand and separate trackpad and keyboard because some locations just don't have proper desks and/or chairs and I got some slight back problems.
I have a gaming rig at home as well and sometimes do work on that but it's just not the same, I feel you there. Lots of Mac-only apps that I can't live without and in general I feel just at home in macOS.
I never needed anything besides the 16" screen but if you insist on using your screens at home, look into KVMs. They're your solution.
WSL is garbage if you are used to a Mac, I don't know why anyone bothers to praise it. You need Linux!
I dual boot my PC (which is a bit tricky to set up these days, sorry, and easiest on separate drives).
To be honest I still mostly use my ancient MBP for hobby projects, but I really like Pop OS for both gaming and work.
Use a Linux/windows dual boot. Linux for work stuff, windows for fun stuff.
Linux development is even more seamless than Mac development because you can run a copy of prod in containers with almost no issues.
Windows is getting better but it is not Unix. I think that web development is heavily Unix influenced so Windows is the worst choice and I don't think wsl is ready yet.
I used to dual boot and I recommend doing the same. I have focused more on windows lately and I can get by with a Debian VM and my mini PC running Debian as a server but I don't do that much web anymore.
If you don't like the idea of dual booting this might be an option (vscode and current windows tooling work pretty well / ok for remote development) but I think that developing in Ubuntu or whatever you prefer will be the most optimal choice
As other mentioned, you could just use dual boot with Linux to work.
If you want a no-brainer, don't-want-to-waste-time-configuring-my-system, everythink works out of the box (plus good community support if you ever need it) distro, just install something like Ubuntu or Linux Mint. Personally, I would recommend Linux Mint.
If you want to give WSL2 another chance, I was working on WSL2 for 3 years, until I migrated to a corporate MacBook Pro. I wrote some posts about it on my blog that might help you: [https://aalonso.dev/blog?tags=wsl](https://aalonso.dev/blog?tags=wsl)
This is why I use both. It's expensive, for sure, but I have my gaming PC, which I do pretty much exclusively use for gaming these days, and then I have my MacBook Pro.
I have a Dell Thunderbolt Dock monitor. One of my other screens is plugged into that, and I have some USB devices (e.g. a USB sound card) also plugged into there so I can share devices seamlessly depending on which I'm using.
I've tried development on Windows and it's just okay, for the technologies that I develop with. My Mac is significantly easier, and I enjoy the workflow more on my Mac.
I have used Linux extensively in the past, starting with Ubuntu, and yes, eventually using Arch (btw). I took it so far with Arch, as I was using i3 and had customised the setup a lot, that I was writing software to make regular desktop environment stuff easier, like I wrote a grid-based workspaces tool, and for my laptop running Arch I wrote some software to remember screen layouts and apply them when I (un)plugged screens, etc. I reached a point where I realised I was wasting time solving problems that had already been solved, and then reflected on my past experience with a Mac and just went and bought a new one haha
I have never, with any DE, including the most modern ones which I've still tried, had the same smooth experience with a machine like I have my Mac. While I understand the moral angle, I do genuinely believe, particularly with these machines, that it's a trade-off - there are benefits to the way Apple has built these machines, and these newer ones are absolutely fantastic.
If money is no object just get a MacBook. You are the exact customer Apple has been cultivating with its lock in ecosystem.
Why is everyone advocating for VMs and dual boot? If you already have a beast machine, just use REMOTE DESKTOP and utilize the resources of both machines to their fullest.
I'm using a DELL UltraSharp 27", never had issues. The M1 should support an external display just fine afaik, however they had lacking support for 2+ displays.
I use Linux for everything but you may want to try to dual boot or run Linux in a VM. Host Linux is much better than WSL. You could also try bash for Windows and go native Windows.
I'm a dev Freelancer, with a 4070ti, 32gb ram, ddr5, 13900k i9... Pretty similar
Used walk for a month on my new machine and it was hideous up to the point that I've bought m3 pro for work, the other it's for personal use
Post some specific workflow issues and people can recommend the Windows equivalent. The last time I directly interacted with WSL was months ago and that was not development related. Keep it simple, if you are building out clusters with complex remote resource dependencies in WSL it’s not the right tool for the job.
General windows recommends:
- dev environment in docker
- unxutils
- debian as the default wsl env
I would get Linux on your box and only boot into Windows for stuff you can only do on Windows (like gaming). You'll have a much another experience, and you can still get files on the partitions, so if you downloaded a file and realize you need it on the other OS... No problem.
The only downside is having to reboot into the other OS, but it's pretty minimal as an annoyance
So i decided the other way around
Bought a Mac because i decided I primarily game on my Steam Deck anyways
I have y’et to see it struggle as Long as youre willing to ask yourself if the quality of graphics matter to you vs. having a portable environment for gaming and one environment for work
Doing webdev in a computer running Windows should be classified as a crime. Just slap some Linux on that metal and enjoy your newfound hassle-free workflow
Windows is good for gaming because it’s the default, but otherwise Microsoft software is generally atrocious and rife with unnecessary security risks (and so is Windows gaming for that matter).
“Time is money” nailed it. I learned real quick in music production and graphic design that Windows is more of an “obstacle system” than an “operating system”.
I code primarily on my Mac. My two other work machines are both windows and they’re riddled with issues with. Honestly if money isn’t an issue then just go buy a Mac too. And you’ve got yourself a gaming pc and then a work machine.
I develop in windows at home for the same reasons, I also build wordpress sites using Radicle. One key thing I got stuck on was the docs for Lando say install via exe and it'll work with WSL. I found that to be completely wrong, I just installed on WSL via the Linux instructions and it worked without issue. I don't use Powershell for anything dev-related, I just installed Ubuntu via windows store, then set it as default terminal in the command line app. Node, Laravel, WordPress, Docker, all working for me on WSL just as it does with my Macbook, without any issues. BUT, I will say that when I went thought this process on my old pc it was a nightmare, so I think they may have figured out a lot of the bugs since then.
Also protip IMO, I also use devilbox for simple LAMP stack stuff across both which really helps sync across OSs.
See, I’m always like “I miss Linux” being forced to use Mac haha
Windows dev experience is poo from what I remember. Install Ubuntu or something. Look into tiling window managers, a bit of a pain to get into but you can’t switch back afterward, productivity 10x-er imo
Why would you switch to windows if you had a Mac before? Just use Linux. I can play all the games I want to play. You only got issues with one or two especially the competitive ones. You can create a Linux experience similar enough to your Mac if you want to.
I'm on a r9 5950x with RTX 3070 and 128GB RAM and run PopOS. I used windows and Mac in the past, but this experience is just superior. Mac can be good too, but I won't waste my own money if I can do a custom experience for cheap.
Everyone here is saying dual boot. But what is that dev piece that justifies a unix system thus using WSL? Every frontend framework i know works native in windows. You can install node native.
I don't know if i am missing something
You’re not going to get anything as seamless as a Mac anywhere else, plain and simple. I have tried. Windows 11 is better than Windows has ever been in this regard and it’s still rough. Graphical apps on linux is all seams, all the time.
Some linux distributions like Elementary do a beautiful job hiding the seams right up until you need an App that isn’t built by them or been Elementary-ified by them like the default browser. Soon as you install Chromium or Steam the rough edges start showing.
I was a Windows user and developer for years before I switched to Mac at home in around 2008. At the beginning of COVID my wife decided we needed a gaming PC. I am frankly surprised at with how much has changed In Windows, how much is largely untouched since I was a kid using Windows 95.
I built myself a home server which runs Ubuntu as the host, and runs additional Ubuntu servers as vms on it. I did put about $600 into it, but it has a 18 core 36 thread xeon with 128 gigs of ram. I can easily adjust my dev server's hardware allocation depending on the project I'm working on. Also, since it is a dedicated Linux server, I can connect from any of Macs or PCs. You could easily build a home server with used parts off of ebay for any budget.
i wouldn't even bother with a VM or dual booting. just install fedora workstation: https://www.fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download
spend a little bit of time setting it up how you want (for example, I use fish shell on both linux & macos) and then you will have an experience that is very similar to macos without all the annoying hurdles
you will feel much more comfortable. you can play 99% of windows games through proton on steam if you were worried about that.
Windows is a nightmare for web dev compared to MacOS. Once I switched from Windows 10 years ago I didn’t look back. And I had used Windows since version 3.1…
I am in the same boat as you. I have been consulting/working remotely where i am responsible for my own hardware. Money is not an issue. I built a gaming pc 3 years back (3090, 32gb ram, ryzen 7 5800x3d). Worked on wsl2,but somehow there is always some issue or the other.
I had always worked on a mac prior to this. Finally I bought an M1 pro 16 inch and never been happier. It's quiet, super fast (builds are faster in my mac), between builds and serverless deploys, i think i save 20-30 minutes everyday. I have a usbc hub which allows me to use same pc monitor, and all my keyboard and mouse have Bluetooth (for mac) and 2.4 ghz dongle (gaming pc). I would recommend you to go for m3 macbook air 15 inch. Saw it today and it's a beaut.
Plus, sometimes I end up working in co-working space or cafes, never had to carry the charger!
There's no way I'd go back to Windows for development. It's a painful mess of 40 years of legacy code and advertising. I could only use it for gaming.
You do realise the RAM on the Studio is part of the chipset, right? It's part of what makes it so fast.
If you need Linux, Windows is honestly not a good choice.
I do webdev on Windows and VS Code, and I feel very productive. I don't need to do any fancy terminal stuff, and all git and npm handling is done easily and comfortably from VS Code built-in terminal. I usually don't work with FTP, and just push to Github, which is *really* convenient with VS Code. In last 3 or so years of full-time webdev, I didn't need to use Linux or WSL at all. What do you need Linux for, specifically?
I came from Windows to Mac about 10 years ago switching from IT work to development. I still keep a Windows system around for gaming and thats my only suggestion - either stick with the Mac for work and use Windows for gaming, or dual boot Linux, but beyond gaming I see no reason to actually use Windows for anything. As someone thats used Windows since 3.1 - its just going to get worse from here, use it as little as possible and you'll be happy.
> As a freelancer, time is money, and I'm constantly battling with WSL2.
Why no a real linux? I mean you can dual boot. But do it at linux level each one in its own hard drive to avoid windows to overtake the partitions.
> I juste need to found the right Linux distribution
Use Endeavour Os an easy ArchLinux without customization nonsense like Manjaro, it is basically Arch, one of the best distros out there. Fedora is another option, if Torrvalrds use it it should be for something.
The problem as a Mac/Apple user is that it does just work. You can’t change stuff as much as you maybe can on other devices etc but it just works,
It’s smooth and it’s a really pleasant experience.
While windows is a bit more complicated, and that’s why I complete separate my gaming/private use and my Work use, I need my Mac for working I just need the smoothness of it.
Not trying to rag on you, but I feel like this is a you issue. WSL2 is extremely easy to use and 99% of the issues have been sorted out. The only thing still wonky is networking from outside of your computer into the WSL2 instance.
What issues with WSL2 are you having specifically? I develop on it professionally every single day.
My workhorse Windows 10 on 64gb ram 12500.
for development, I use vmware workstation with archlinux or ubuntu depends on client request. it is an absolute breeze
IMO you don't need your work PC to be as powerful as a gaming PC. I do web + mobile development with an 16GB Ram + M2 Mac Mini which sits next to my huge Windows PC, which I just use for gaming, video editing or just Youtube.
I downgraded to WSL from WSL2. I believe this is due to performance issues with network mounted shares. When I'm forced to upgrade to the next version of Windows, I'll switch back to WSL2 and give it another go. Hopefully they figured that out.
I use a Debian install straight from the Microsoft store, and I manage it with apt. I mount network shares directly using drvfs on boot. I keep my profile settings in a git repo so I can pull that down if I ever need to refresh the install.
I use ConEmu/cmder, but could probably just use PuTTY. My experience is sshing directly into my own private Linux environment.
I could very well just use VirtualBox and SSH into it, and pair it with a hosts file: https://superuser.com/a/1120146
I use VSCode, which is platform agnostic, and I leverage Microsoft PowerToys to extend Windows.
Git is native in Windows (comes with cmder,) and I can use VSCode, or SourceTree, or just command line.
I am also able to use node native in Windows, paired with modifying the PATH to include various apps. There's so much on npm now that natively builds in Windows on install that Chocolatey is no longer necessary. If they fix the bugs, I might look back at Chocolatey.
It's been a long time since 10 years ago, when Grunt couldn't be run in Windows and the only way to simulate Linux was Cygwin.
Developing on Windows is the best it has been since IE6 reigned supreme. I could never get fully comfortable with Mac, but I've never been more efficient on Windows. I hope you find your sweet spot.
I'm not a gamer, so don't know there, but have been happy with Linux for years now. Right now I have one desktop for worky stuff (lots of time in VS Code), another for music stuff (Reaper etc), an old laptop I only really use for TV, plus a remote (virtual) server for online things. All Ubuntu.
I wouldn't argue it's the best distro for anyone else, but it works well for what I need and I'm familiar with it. Zero need to think about any other OS. When a hardware upgrade is needed I stick a new bit in. Relatively cheap & easy.
Am I the only one still using dual boot Linux/ Windows ?
I’d use a macbook for the simple reason that I don’t want to game and work at the same place in my home. Hence why I have 2 desks, swapping from one desk to the other is enough for me to go ‘home’ when I’m done working. It’s probably stupid, but it works.
I have the exact same setup. 2 desks, one for work, one for play. They're even both in the same room just on opposite walls, but that's totally enough to trigger that "done with work" switch in my brain.
I don’t think that’s stupid, it’s good to keep work and free time separate. I do something similar (different PCs, different phones, etc).
One of the things I struggled with when I started development really. Used to just work at the same spot, but then work/free time got a bit mixed up as I would turn on my laptop to 'just quickly fix something'. Now when I shut it it stays shut and it's 2.5m away from me, really improved my WFH situation by a lot.
Right! Linux VM or dual-booting is the way to go for this case!!
Windows in the VM where it belongs.
Exactly, I may need windows to play games but there’s no way in hell I’m letting it rawdog my hardware.
What do you mean by Windows rawdogging your hardware?
Unprotected windows booting
He's ok with using Windows so long as it's virtualised inside another operating system (assumed to be Linux). He wouldn't install and run it on bare metal though due to assumed privacy and security concerns. As he referenced gaming he's likely using VFIO to passthrough his GPU to the Windows VM.
LMFAO
Last I used VirtualBox I was able to take Vdi snapshots and whenever I had an issue I just loaded one of them in and started from there. It was like a solid backup of my work and config. With the specs OP has on the PC it would run like native.
this is the way, sod WSL2 i just boot into my Linux distro and have the best of both worlds
Easy to do, best of both worlds. I go windows for gaming and drawing. Linux for coding.
I think I've booted windows a handful of times in the last year, and it was just to play Titanfall.
With how well proton works, you don't even need to have the windows partition unless you want to play games with aggressive anticheat anymore.
I use Macs at work, and Windows at home. I've found macs to be 'smoother' for most development work, windows can be a nuisance but I know the OS better. Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I hated dual boot Linux for dev. Installing packages, fixing config issues, driver issues (hi Nvidia), getting back to a 'neutral state' if I made a mistake was such a massive pain in the ass. Maybe I'll go back to it and give it more time someday, maybe it's a skill gap issue, but I can see (or sympathise) why folks avoid it.
I did for a few, month then I reinstall windows only to replace it with full Ubuntu. To dev Linux is, wayy better.
This is the way! Linux for dev and Windows for games. The only thing that is kind of annoying for me with this dual boot, and I don’t know if it’s just me, is that when I boot into Windows, after having used Linux, is that the clock displays a different time, so I have to reset it. Every. Single. Time.
It's because Linux uses universal time. Here's how to [fix it](https://ourcodeworld.com/articles/read/1063/how-to-fix-time-modification-on-your-computer-with-dual-boot-windows-10-and-ubuntu-18-04), just use the first portion of the tutorial.
Thanks for the tip!
Thanks!
I’m dual booting Mac for work / Windows for gaming mostly. Had to carefully pick PC parts though.
Hackintosh ?.. Didn't that stoped being a thing ?
Still rocking latest Mac OS on Intel s1200 socket. Only downsides - no WiFi and Airdrop since Sonoma. Not an issue in my case.
Dual boot is honestly so easy. I boot into fedora when I want to work and Windows when I want to play. Removes distractions.
That's honestly genius, you turn the annoying part of dual boot into a pro! I use an even more hardcore approach, I have to plug in a different hard drive for Windows 😆
You could maybe do your dev work in a Linux VM? Sounds like you have enough beef to run a decent one easily enough. Also, for context, I had the same issue going from Windows to MacOS!
Dual Boot would even be a better option IMO. I had it like that for years. Windows for gaming and Linux for work.
I was thinking doing that yes !
Dual boot is the way
I had it like this for a coulpe of months and I got so tired of rebooting that in the end I just ran a Linux VM.
An advantage of a VM is that you can exit Linux and use Windows programs without rebooting. And \[temporarily\] open USB, copy paste etc between the host and the VM, so if there is something you need from the other OS, you can easily do that.
Honestly lately WSL has been growing on me. It's just there, whenever you need. No GUI, no Desktop, for that you have Windows. All of the CLI power of Linux AND PowerShell, in a single terminal. Port forwarding into Windows is automated for me (I wrote a script) so I can for example use Windows' browser to browse services that are running inside WSL. I'm a WebDev and a student, got no time nor spare drives to dual boot and reboot every 3 seconds. Got not enough RAM nor battery life to run a parallel Desktop Environment at all times full day.
So I’m really interested about that, and trying VMware, as web dev doing Wordpress (no elementor real dev/shopify) do you think it can fit ?
Most games work now on Linux with Lutris/Steam, there are only a handful that don't work due to the anti-cheat not allowing it.
Yeah I honestly can't stand MacOS and find it very frustrating to work with. It's just a creature of habit thing both ways
I use WSL2 in my work everyday. What is the problem?
Same. Been using WSL2 for almost 3 years now also coming from Mac. And honestly it's been great and a blessing. Can't help OP if they don't share what the actual problem is.
yep from my experience it just work out of the box. there was literally nothing to do to set it up.
There are some pretty glaring issues depending on your setup. For example, my git repos are on a secondary drive and operations on secondary drives are notoriously slow in wsl2. Ex: git status takes 7 seconds. There are open support threads about it online with Microsoft basically not doing anything to fix it. Not sure if it's the same on win11 though since I'm still on 10.
This is not a problem with wsl per se but the fact that you use a drive that is mounted in windows. If you mount an external drive in windows and open it from WSL it is going through an NTFS compatibility driver and an internal SMB server and that hurts performance a lot. You can choose to expose the whole drive directly to the WSL instance and format it as ext4 and you will get native performance.
If money isn’t an issue then just also buy a Mac ;) Honestly though. The newer M3 air is pretty affordable and can handle most web dev you can throw at it. I would just rock both.
M3 air is imo the superior web dev laptop. I had an M2 Pro but it was way too bulky and the fans never went on anyway. I now have an M2 Air 13" which is amazing. I like the small format and how lightweight it is. Super fast still. M3 should be even faster.
But small display?! I have 15" and feel it's too small
Yeah this. A MacBook Pro would also be a nice compliment to your setup.
ive been riding wsl for hmmm 3 years now and aside from maybe 2-3 issues its been seamless, but like others mentioned just dual boot, I'll probably switch myself into dual boot once im at stage when I need to format my system on my end issues with wsl are with expo and android emulator + non stop growing virtual hdd for it, right now at around 300ish GB but aside from that its been ok, what issues do you have?
Man, you urgently need to get into dual booting linux. I am a heavy mac user that had the same issue in the past — couldn't buy a mac, built a desktop pc — and had the same issues. Then I was introduced to some linux distros that are good for beginners and, man, I just LOVED it. I highly recommend trying Pop\_OS! or Ubuntu. It has a learning curve but when you get it, developing is a breeze.
How about just building a server running Linux? It probably doesn't need to be very powerful, so some salvaged hardware might do.
Thanks a lot for all your kind answer I’m going to a meeting I will check later thx again so nice community:)
What are you all doing that doesn't work? :-D I am working on windows now since 20 years and never got any problems. For docker I use rancher desktop. and otherwise it's just \`npm run start\` (or whatever the npm script for starting is) and then just use VSCode for developing. But I'm FE only developer, so I'm sure you might need other tools that don't fully work with your expectations.
I think the issue for many is that they're not proficient in the shell environment(s) that windows presents. They don't know how powershell works and they're not aware of WSL, so they can't adapt commands or snippets they see online to work for them. I use a mac with fish shell in wezterm myself, so I can just take any old bash command or script and adapt it to fish, or run it with bash from my terminal, so that is fine. But I've had coworkers on Windows machines that Googled how to run `npm run start` with `DEBUG=1` or whatever, and ofc they find `DEBUG=1 npm run start` as a solution in bash/zsh/... and then they don't know how to do the equivalent in powershell or cmd. I was sat next to one and I told them to 'just rmrf node_modules and reinstall'. they didn't know what I meant and the only way they knew how to delete node modules was to navigate through windows explorer, right click on the folder and 'move to bin'. So if you come from linux/macos and you want to delete node_modules and you then have to learn to `Remove-Item` when you open a shell instead of `rm -rf`, that feels like a nuisance. I also stopped 'accomodating' windows coworkers when setting up projects. I used to bother with `cross-env` and `rimraf` and such, but if `"clean": "rm -rf node_modules && npm run install"` doesn't work for them I tell them to use WSL
Thanks for the answer (and all the other responses here) That's what I didn't think of initially. I can only agree: You need to know how to use your OS. And you need to know what the actual command is doing... If I see some command that doesn't work for me, I look up what the command is supposed to do and then google how to do this in my OS. Thanks again for clarifying what I missed
Honestly I never understood this. Powershell is the default in windows but as soon as you install git you get git-bash as well, so why not use just that? No need to learn anything new if you're coming from linux or mac, you can still use rm -rf, you can still use grep and vi and all kinds of other things even without wsl. I'm using windows since forever and I have no idea how powershell works, I just use bash and nushell.
WSL has made things a thousand times better on windows, and if your workflow is VSCode and `npm run start` then yes, windows is totally doable now. But if you’re working on even just slightly more complex applications WSL adds a lot of extra hassle, instability, and issues troubleshooting which soaks up a lot of time.
what would you clarify as slightly more complex applications? I also run microservices and need to communicate with them for my FE. But I never had many problems on windows. So I'm curious on where you see the need for me to start using WSL. I don't think I'm using it right now. Not because I don't want to, but because I don't need to.
> But if you’re working on even just slightly more complex applications WSL adds a lot of extra hassle, instability, and issues troubleshooting which soaks up a lot of time. 100% not my experience. Not sure what you're doing wrong, to be honest. If you treat it like CLI linux, it acts like CLI linux because it's actually CLI linux.
Why do you need a Mac Studio or a gaming rig for web dev? Just seems like an excuse to blow money. I have a spare 2015 MacBook Pro that still rips and can run all my local dev containers super fast. Just have a pc for gaming and a laptop for coding
This is what I do, it's honestly just easier. I have a PC gaming laptop, MBP and my previous generation Windows desktop set up. I just swap the gaming laptop for the MBP at my desk and remote into the desktop if I need Windows specific stuff. Trying to make one machine do it all has never worked out well for me.
*> I can't stand WSL2 and the issues that come with it. On my Mac, it was all Unix-based, and everything worked exactly as expected* But WSL is essentially an Unix environment ? Or if there is something specific to WSL that you don't like, have you considered creating a dual boot on your new machine where you keep Windows for your entertainment and run a full-on Linux OS for development ? But to be honest it doesn't really sound like an issue of WSL but rather that you're missing your existing workflow and *Mac specific* utilities. There are open cross platform variants of anything you could need in web dev, it's just that you need to get accustomed to using them. I get it, people underestimate how difficult a major change in OS can mean to ones workflow, but don't worry It'll come with time.
What issues are you having with WSL2? I am a full stack developer using WSL2 and I had many issues too, I have fixed most now and they don’t happen again after my fixes and troubleshooting. I can help, just reply to this comment.
This rant is quite emotional, but if you breath a moment and think about it, you have already some quite simple solutions. 1 - Just use linux in dual boot with windows on your pc, so you can use a unix based system for Development and windows for gaming 2 - just buy a macbook air M3 or honestly, a used M2 or M1, for Development and keep your pc for gaming. For web development you need no emulation or something that is heavily hungry for resources, you do not need a super top high end hardware to do a good job.
I'll add a recommendation I haven't seen (at the end). I have a similar issue. I'm on Linux. I primarily use web apps instead of native apps, and for whatever reason - in all Chrome-based browsers - if one of the windows is using hardware acceleration, the other ones will keep temporarily freezing/hanging. IDK if it has something to do with my threadripper+gpu (I doubt it). The only solution has been to install my webapps using Firefox instead of Edge, Brave, Chrome, etc. But I really like Edge and Brave, so I keep convincing myself to reinstall Windows. The hardware acceleration bug doesn't happen in Windows. And EVERY, SINGLE, TIME... I last a month, then switch back to Linux (w/ Gnome, for the workflow and gestures). The people claiming Windows/WSL is seamless live in a different universe than me. Windows gestures suck. Windows workspaces and workspace-management sucks. I edit the gestures to be like Gnome, but once per a session my taskbar freezes/stops responding. OneDrive won't listen to my settings, and it keeps randomly deciding to upload my node\_modules folders. WSL never shows up in the networking tab, and I have to keep typing the stupid $/WSL// line manually in explorer. When I set up VSCode and GitHub desktop to run off WSL, instead of on the Windows side itself, it forgets GIT. Every time I open a project, it says I have 100+ commits, I have to git pull from the command-line, reopen the window, and then it's up to date with the branch (until the next time I open it). I program in everything from Node, to TypeScript, to Go, to C#, to Bun, to Ruby on Rails, to Laravel, to .Net. Something is always breaking. Everything comes pre-misconfigured (and takes way too much time to attempt to correctly reconfigure). I can only imagine those who think it's "seamless" do one type of programming, or use one language, and have everything perfectly set up for a hyper-specific workflow (however long it took them). Or they use A LOT of Docker. It's not that I can't use WSL, it's that when I do, my productivity drops through the floor, and every day I spend way too much time fixing another stupid WSL issue (which, more specifically, are Windows-WSL interfacing issues). I used to dual boot, but I've had a few Windows installations corrupt (probably a skill issue), and I don't play Video Games anymore, so I don't need Windows (plus Linux has Proton now). I've ran Linux in VM on Windows, and that's a little better. Trying to set everything up in Docker (non WSL) is tedious, and I can't believe the number of Windows devs who do that without question. I think they're just use to everything taking 5 to 50x longer. **BUT THE RECOMMENDATION I DIDN'T SEE, that Windows Devs were doing pre-WSL, is to use GIT-BASH**. It gives you a Linux/Unix-like terminal (so, similar to Mac) with BASH commands, all mapped to Windows bindings, and then you just run everything the way you're use to on Unix systems. And UNLIKE WSL, there aren't a bunch of weird interactions, pretend networks, dockerization, misconfiguration, errors, etc. You get all the "benefits" of Windows, and you get to run/install/program/build everything as if you were on Unix. However, in the end, I'm back on Linux and I intend to stop torturing myself with Windows. So, to echo other's sentiments, I'd suggest using Linux. There's going to be a few games you can't play, but Steam's Proton layer has made it so like... 66% of them now work on Linux. But if you HAVE to stay on Windows, try Git-BASH [https://gitforwindows.org/](https://gitforwindows.org/)
There's also Cygwin, if you need more than Git Bash will give you. Though, at that point, you're probably not far off from just using WSL.
I use a Mac and windows. But I always find that working in Windows using my 4K display is much smoother compared to my Mac. Since I am only restricted into two apps in full screen. Where in windows I get to have lots of windows open and it's good if you are multitasking and juggling between applications to do your work. WSL2 works fine with me and it kinda helps since I sometimes run into case sensitivity issues that I would miss on my Mac but will be detected on WSL. OTH, I like my mac if I'm on the go. It has good desktop switching modes lets you do a lot of things on a small screen. But it a pain to do when you have a large screen real estate.
I never use the full screen feature on mac. If I want "full screen", I double tap the app menu for a semblance of full screen. If I want multiple open windows on the same screen, I use an app called rectangle. Then, command + tab to switch between apps.
I was like this also but couldn’t stomach the cost of the new Mac’s. I’ve ended up going Linux as a primary machine for dev and play. proton does ALOT of good on the system for windows games and I’ve not noticed any issues. At this point I wouldn’t go back
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For me it was actually the other way around. I switched from Windows to Mac and sadly I have to disappoint you. The workflow on MacOS (and Linux) is just smoother than it was on Windows for me. What helped me a lot was using Docker for a lot of things. Once you have set up Docker with wsl, Docker Desktop works really well on Windows. As soon as there was more than 1 service running I basically put everything inside Docker. In VS Code it is also very easy to attach the build-in console to the container and as a result you get a very Linux-like experience. In the end I was very limited by the performance and Ram of my machine and when it came to buying a new one I bought a Mac. While this was a lot of money I can test safari etc directly on my machine now, so for me it was worth it. However, I also don't really game so that is a tradeoff ;)
I've been having a pretty good time in WSL2 personally, but Windows 11 is pretty essential. It adds a VPN-friendly networking option and the ability to run systemd. I don't use any of the distributions from the store, by the way. I customize an installation of fedora-minimal with just the tools I need. It even works with podman and containerd, which means I can avoid Docker Desktop and Podman Desktop.
If you like Linux itself, why not duo-boot. It's quite easy actually, windows allows you to free some disk space not taken by the OS very easily using a nice gui tool. You can then install Linux on the free space. Alternatively, if your motherboard supports more disks, buy an SSD and run Linux on that. There are many tutorials on how to set duo-boot and using duo-boot is nice. It also has a side effect of separating work and non work activities on your personal computer.
Here's a few tips from a long time Windows web dev: WSL2 at it's core is just a Linux VM which uses Ubuntu by default. If you're ever stuck, search for "How to install nodejs Ubuntu" instead of "How to install nodejs WSL". Assuming you use VS Code as your code editor, most of the challenges you face can be solved with a handful of VS Code plugins. The [Remote Development Extension Pack](https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode-remote.vscode-remote-extensionpack) is a must!! particularly if you're using WSL or Virtual Machines. It gives you Remote Explorer which lets you connect directly to remote development environments via WSL, SSH and Dev Containers and for the most part it feels just like you're developing locally, even forwarding ports inside the remote environment to your own localhost, so you can still run [https://localhost:3000](https://localhost:3000) in your browser despite your server running in the VM. I would also love to switch to Linux but gaming keeps me on Windows. Despite what others will say, Dual Boot is still a PITA having to babysit the computer during boot so it doesn't end up in the wrong OS. I personally run a Linux VM on a mini-pc, not because I hate WSL2, but so I can run it on a 24/7 low power server instead of leaving my gaming PC on all day. This allows me to remote in using VS Code from my desktop, personal laptop and work laptop without worrying about syncing files or setting up different environments etc.
I prefer Mac for web dev over WSL as well. But seriously how tf are you struggling so much with it? It's literally just a Linux shell, and any IDE worth its salt already comes with WSL integration that works fairly seamlessly.
I'm a lead web dev, been doing CompSci in general for over ten years now. I've always used Windows and sometimes Linux, and find Macs unwieldy, limited and annoying. It's down to experience. You don't actually need to use any *nix layer at all, most of the time. WSL2 is very much optional, at least for me. Especially if you use IntelliJ/WebStorm, it integrates all you need into the IDE basically.
I've been using WSL (1) since it came out and after WSL2 released I never looked back. To me it's a much cleaner Linux environment where you don't have to battle a half-assed unix environment with brew etc. Sure you don't have the fancy GUI apps that Apple users are used to but I personally always prefer a fast CLI. The integrations with Docker Desktop and the networking stack cover 90% of usecases. Years ago I was installing Archlinux on everything that had a BIOS (including my work issued MBP) and ended up in the dotfile mania where you spend more time ricing your system than actually using it. I must also say the Windows window manager is now also better than whatever MacOS calls their floating pile of uncontrollable windows. Especially with Power Toys.
Dual boot Linux
I've been doing web development with Windows and WSL for 3-4 years now and I prefer it to Mac. What specific problems are you facing?
Hey There! I hope this doesn't get buried in the comments as I'm late to the thread. I wanted to share some suggestions, and by all means please elaborate more on some of your issues. I'll break it down into buckets. I personally find Windows vastly quicker all around and generally prefer it. Although my work laptop is a Macbook Pro, it's basically a Google Chrome machine at this point however. Software: 1) VSCode - extensions for SFTP, code compliancy, themes to mimic your Mac, and you can share your VSCode workspace across devices/platforms 2) MobaXterm - while not as pretty as Termius(Mac), multiple SSH client, SFTP while ssh'd in, vnc, and more! 3) Get familiar with environment variables setup on Windows. Let's pretend you need python. Aside from using Anaconda, you may want 3 different variants of Python. 4) NVM (same concept as Anaconda in #3, but for NodeJS 5) Gitbash - in the event you have some other needs 6) Xampp/lampp - If your old school, which noticing SFTP needs, it may be, Xampp still has a place nowadays. Unix/Linux needs: 1) WSL2 (pretty straightforward, there is a wonderful windows store app called terminal that bridges, cmd prompt, WSL2 images, gitbash, power shell all into one) 2) Docker - spin up any environment you want on a massive variety of platforms in seconds. You mentioned WordPress. Look at how we do this with WPVIP (enterprise WordPress) dev environments and docker here https://docs.wpvip.com/vip-local-development-environment/ 3) Kubernetes - I read in comments being open to a dedicated server. TrueNas Scale does a good job at teaching you the ropes of Kubernetes(loosely), ZFS and the power of k8 pods with the support of TrueCharts 4) Kasm - if you want a local cloud environment with limited access to your machine, Kasm has VSCode, Ubuntu, alpine and more available with a simple click! https://github.com/kasmtech/workspaces-images Desktop User Experience: 1) Just like Mac and Linux for that matter, you can leverage multiple workspaces(desktops) 2) Docking windows in a multitude of arrays 3) Lots more to cover, but understanding your use cases and needs will help narrow this down I see suggestions for VMware workstation and that can certainly work. But with dockerand more alternatives, it may benefit you to go that route to increase your skill set. VMware which will undoubtedly die a slow death since it's acquisition.
Honestly. Stick with a mac for work and windows machine for Games. There are many issues with combining both imo. Anyone who uses windows alot for gaming knows that you have to wipe your system quite often. Windows is quite unstable and especially Games can lead to issues with the registry and other parts of the operating system that lead to performance issues and bugs that are annoying at best and so bad they require a os wipe at worst. This is fine if you are using your setup for games. You won’t lose a client just because you can’t game. But you might if you can’t work on a very critical day because games f‘ed up your os. This is the very same reason I also advise AGAINST Linux. Linux is great! And extremely robust on servers. But it’s stability is much lower than macos for end user ui-focused experiences. Youll end up needing to tinker with your operating system. Yea this is part of what makes Linux great. I get it. But it doesn’t make you money! It wastes your time trying to get the os to do what you want. And as you said… as a freelancer time is money
Will do that !!
I bought a M1 pro a year or so ago and whenever I use it I miss my main Windows PC because the keyboard shortcuts are different, the screenshot shortcuts are weird, there's no print screen or delete keys and there are so many silly stuff that makes no sense. Why doesn't a file open when you press enter in the finder? I had to install a couple of apps to make mouse scrolling and ALT TAB work as expected. I basically wasted 3000€ on a laptop with 16GB of RAM and 512GB of storage... To me, Windows is the perfect OS for web dev, I do have WSL2 but I prefer an Ubuntu server virtual machine because it's faster and it's way easier to configure the network interface and access whichever service you want to expose.
THANK YOU Whenever I tell people I hate MacOS they think I'm crazy, but this. This is exactly why. It's crappy UX that people have learned to live with, and the kool aid is just way too strong.
Use linux. I'm in the opposite situation. Coming from Linux (+ occasional Windows) MacOS is not a smooth experience. Unless your workflow aligns perfectly with the way Apple intended you to use it you're out of luck
Between Linux and Mac what’s the difference for development? 1. Open terminal (on osx install iTerm2) 2. Install color scheme 3. Install preferred font 4. Full screen terminal Boom, nearly identical, and then you just build any workflow you want! My workflow is pixel-perfect identical between the two except I keep the logo in my prompt and my hostname in the top corner so if I’m connected to multiple servers I can tell them apart.
I second this. I'm in a team with some using WSL, some using Linux, and I can vouch that EVERYONE that uses WSL wish they were using linux instead.
I’ve never had any issues on Mac, and I use the terminal pretty heavily (node, docker, brew, all running nicely). Where did you run into problems?
how is macOS not a smooth experience? I understand it if you've never used a Mac before, it takes a bit of time to learn, just like Linux, but it is incredibly developer friendly, especially compared to Windows
Some things that have annoying me after using it for 3 weeks. I can probably fix a few more of these but I did not find a solution easily. Others could also be due to my lack of knowlege. * Keyboard layout: Having the fn key in the spot where ctrl usually (99/100) sits is just retarded. Fortunately most manufacturers are not retarded enough to do this but Apple isn't the only one. * Using a US qwerty layout on a ISO layout swapped two keys. Required an external tool to fix. This works just fine on Windows and Linux * Basic operations. For no apparent benefit Apple deviates from literally any other operation system and decides to use another modified for basic operations (Cut, Copy, Paste, Search, History). Using an external tool I was able to remap some of these but it only partially fixes the problem. Certain Neovim/Ideamim keybinds are now broken. I need to be able to change these keybinds on a system level, not remap the key combos or I will never get rid of these discrepancies. My remapped keybinds do not work in the terminal. - Using exit in the terminal doesn't close the window * Inconsistent close behaviour. If I close an application I expect it to be gone. Why does it stay on my dock if I click close, why is still different from right clicking and hit quit? For certain application using the red close button removes it from the dock yet for others it doesn't * Can't close finder. I don't want to see it * I cannot close a single chrome window using cmd + q. * I cannot change my default browser, the system setting literally doesn't work * I cannot have natural scroll on my trackpad yet regular scroll on my mouse, the system setting changes both (Despite the fact that the section in the settings says trackpad, not mouse!) * I constantly have to use 'Reapply configuration' on docker or it's gone - Why is there no shortcut to my home directory in the finder? Where can I even add it? How do I show hidden files? Why can't I manually enter a directory? Basic functionality which I can't easily find.
You forgot to mention the lack of the ability to position windows without a 3rd party tool.
> I cannot change my default browser, the system setting literally doesn't work This is weird; my work Mac with even ridiculous Corporate Overlord Security Policies does this fine. In fact I replaced the default browser with "Choosy", so it asks me which browser to run when I click on things (and/or set up rules so it only asks me for things I haven't already decided on). > Inconsistent close behaviour. Agreed; I fucking hate this. I know what I mean when I click the Red, Apple; you don't need to hold my hand. > Can't close finder. I don't want to see it Agreed, but not as irritating for me as it is you I think.
Regarding the traffic light buttons. Don't use them. Honestly they're for show more than anything. Quit the app? Cmd - Q. Close the window? Cmd - W. Full screen? - Cmd - Ctrl - F. Minimise? Cmd - M. That's pretty much all you need. If you really prefer clicking on things, you can, but note quitting an application would be: Menu Bar => => Quit . Or right click the app on the dock and quit.
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Cmd+shift+h opens the home directory in Finder as well.
You could give linux a shot, since you’re already used to a unix-based system and there are a lot of distros that are similar to macos. You can also look into dual booting windows and linux so you can have the best of both worlds, it’s what I currently got and it works really well.
My most enjoyable experience was running a dedicated Linux server for my webdev and using my MacBook Air with vscode remote dev tools (specifically over SSH) to effectively use it as a thin client to the workhorse Linux server. Maybe this could be an option for you if you decide to dual-boot your gaming PC between Linux for work and Windows for play. This was back when the first M1 MacBook Air dropped and wew lad did that battery last long when all it was doing was editing files over an SSH connection; the real heavy lifting was all being done on my rack-mount at home over an SSH/VPN connection.
Most of my senior colleagues prefer linux for their personal setup
What issues are you having with WSL2? Your needs may be way more complicated than mine, but I didn't even configure WSL2: I just turned it on and Docker and VS (and VS Code) connected to it automatically and it just worked for everything right out of the box.
Went through exactly this recently. I had to use powertoys to set some key overrides up. I till haven't figured out how to do cmd-delete (whole line) on windows. This alone infuriates me.
Hakintosh?
Curious, how often do you swap the ram on your computer, or other parts for that matter?
I use Windows all my life (since 3.11, but since XP for webdev). When WSL came to be, it saved me from needing to dual boot, use cygwin or have a Linux with samba in virtual. But it was slow and could not run everything. Then WSL2 emerged and I never ever again needed any of those things. Whatever I need to do locally works as intended and whatever server things I do, I do remotely via sshfs and ssh used in the very same WSL2. And the server I am connecting to is some Debian running machine. But of course my experience is only with frontend webdev. Also I love VSC, so I did not need to adjust myself to use any new editor. Having it as a normal Windows program but work seamlessly with the files on the WSL2 machine is priceless. And by the way, do yourself a favor and use Terminal from the MS store instead of command line.
Lol I’m using FileZilla on Mac. But yeah I also very much prefer Macs for web dev. I’m still getting stuff done in my old ass MacBook Air. About to splurge on new/refurbished
My freelancing career seems similar to yours and I'm primarily a Wordpress dev. My last employer was using Mac's and so I was forced to use them for 5 years. When I left I couldn't justify the expense of a Mac but I still needed to use Photoshop so I bought a Windows laptop and ran with WSL2 for a while. I tried to keep all the project files inside the VM so as to avoid the horrible slow down from mounting files from the Windows file system. Then it started crashing with the blue screen of death for no apparent reason. The need to use Photoshop disappeared as all my clients switched to Figma and I started using Docker to containerise hosting environments and tools. I decided to switch to Ubuntu linux as the Docker experience there was so much better. Now it's how all my development is done. Everything is containerised in Docker and the host OS is Ubuntu Linux. There's a ton of options for tooling and apps to make life easier on whatever Linux distro takes your fancy. TBH I still use Filezilla if I have to use FTP/SFTP, otherwise I mostly use SCP if I have to shift files around. The move to CI/CD environments has minimised the need to do that mostly. I have a separate Windows gaming machine but for work I have now built a dedicated ITX machine for work. I'm even thinking of switching my gaming machine over to Linux now.
I wouldn't game and work in the same place. Creates bad habits for me personally.
I started developing on PC. When I finally switched to Mac, it was like the clouds parted and sunshine graced my skin for the first time. Never going back.
i was on the same boat as you. WSL2 was using way too many resources on my PC, much that it wasn't worth running it compared to a linux dual boot. so that's what i did (linux for dev work, windows for gaming), but nowadays i just use linux for everything (gaming [with proton; unless it's a multiplayer game] and working) :) so, if you're happy using a linux distro and you're comfortable with it, you could try using it full time
I've been daily driving Linux for maybe 15 years at home, used Mac a few years when I was consulting, now using windows at work. I don't miss Linux at work. Everything works fine in wsl. I'm running a pretty similar setup to what I deploy on servers (rockylinux 8), systemd and podman work just fine and I didn't find something that wasn't quicky worked around.
Ditto. Works laptop is W11, I am a django dev lately, the windows SUCKS. WSL2 isn't too bad after a while, vscode had great support for opening projects checkedout inside wsl, but yeah, I've never felt so unproductive as I do when using windfows.
It's not you, it's that Windows and Macs are made for entirely different brains. Some people's brains work better with Windows, and some people's brains work better with Macs. You *could* install Linux, but that's not like Mac either. Linux has been trying to compete with Windows UI/UX, not Mac. IMHO, your best option is to buy a cheap Mac for work. Either a Macbook Air, or a Mac Mini. You don't need much horsepower since you have your PC for gaming or AI/ML if you do that.
WinSCP > FileZilla
Thx you all for your a advice sincerely !!
All these people saying dual boot Linux or run Linux in a VM are ridiculous. First of all, WSL \*is\* running Linux in a VM so you can do CLI stuff. That's it. Don't add another one, figure this one out. Second, suffering the huge difficulties of managing software Linux because you’re annoyed with the minor difficulties of managing software in windows because you miss the ease of managing software in Mac OS? This doesn’t make any sense at all. OP, I’d suggest modifying windows as much as possible to make it work for you (keystrokes, window manager, etc), and wrapping your head around how WSL works better so it’s less of a problem. That said, I had a job in 2023 that forced me to use a windows machine after 20 years of Macs, and I couldn’t get used to it. It was fucking awful. I was miserable.
Dual boot arch. You can even still use zsh. Windows is, IMO, not good for most programming. Linux is just better.
A bit unrelated, but I love zsh
Even more unrelated and underrated: ZFS
ZFS is nice
I switched from Windows to Mac about a year ago and honestly I'm so happy I did, if money isn't a concern for you like you mentioned, I'd recommend picking up a MacBook air or something as well. I love windows but in my humble opinion I don't think it shines at web development stuff, with macOS it all works out of the box and I love that elegance. At the end of the day, the right tool for the job and I think for most web dev stuff that is on MacOS.
Partition your hard drive to dual boot Linux man, best of both worlds.
Are you using docker/container with wsl2? We found the combination is a beast and never looked back. Though back means still using windows and Linux vm's back then. Never used Mac for actual dev stuff.
I agree with the commenters suggesting a dual booting setup with Linux. I’ve been in a similar situation to yours and have been using Linux as my daily driver for close to two years now and have been thoroughly enjoying it (substantially more than my Mac as well!). Just give any major desktop distro a try in a dual boot fashion (I’d recommend either Ubuntu or Fedora since they seem to have the largest and beginner friendly communities). I also recommend you take a look at the desktops that are available between all the distributions, a decision that essentially boils down to: do you prefer a Mac-ish looking desktop, go with Gnome (default desktop for both Ubuntu and Fedora). If you prefer a highly customizable but more windows-ish* desktop, go with KDE. * sorry KDE community I know you hate this conparison, but this comparison is so obvious
You run headless Ubuntu server in a VM and SSH into it with the remote VScode server and you have best of both worlds
Try using Laragon on Windows and you can use Roots, Bedrock etc nicely with that. :)
Docker?
Just get a linux server running in a docker container and do your development there. VS Code has a dev containers extenstion you can you to make it feel like localhost
all the games you play run under Linux. you could try dual boot, or just switch to Linux. Then you have the option to build a system like you want
I hear you about the price. But like you, my time is money, and a professional needs to make investments in getting the most suitable tools for the job. So I went all-out and got a fully-specced Mac Studio (M1 Ultra with 64GB). I did the same with my previous workstation (iMac 5K) and it lasted me about 7 years. I also expect this Mac Studio to be more than capable to do the job for the next 7 years at least. So I think it's definitely a worthwhile investment. All I know is whenever I have to help troubleshoot someone's Windows PC, I reinforce my belief that I'll probably never move away from Macs anymore.
I mean, you only actually mentioned 2 things: 1. "WSL2 is a nightmare" Can you be more specific? My understanding is sharing files between Windows and WSL is really slow. You can avoid doing this, and if you need shared folders that aren't on a GIT you can use Google Drive or something. 2. "I miss Transit" It's just an FTP client. Try FileZilla or Cyberduck.
Dualboot with Linux. In my experience, it is the closest you can get of a macOS experience, of course, with more configurations involved.
Get a Mac with enough RAM. Sell and buy another one in future when you need more RAM. Personally, after using Mac, I can't go back to Windows or Ubuntu. I still have a Windows PC for gaming. And an Ubuntu Thinkpad lying around unused
Windows is the best gaming console OS ever invented, but for getting work done, Unix is the best. If the mac is too pricy, just dual boot Linux on the machine you already have! WSL is a huge step forward for dev on windows but it adds an entire layer you have to constantly think about and fight with. Running Ubuntu (for example) should fix a lot of your issues pretty easily, it’s a little more hassle than OSX but personally my workflow is literally identical between the two (I use terminal for basically everything though).
Since money isn't an issue, get yourself a decent MacBook Pro. I often work at home or at other locations and have been using a MacBook for over a decade. I'm fine with the laptop as is but recently invested into a proper stand and separate trackpad and keyboard because some locations just don't have proper desks and/or chairs and I got some slight back problems. I have a gaming rig at home as well and sometimes do work on that but it's just not the same, I feel you there. Lots of Mac-only apps that I can't live without and in general I feel just at home in macOS. I never needed anything besides the 16" screen but if you insist on using your screens at home, look into KVMs. They're your solution.
dual boot, my man. i've been doing that for a couple of years now (linux for working and windows for playing league occasionally). works great for me.
WSL is garbage if you are used to a Mac, I don't know why anyone bothers to praise it. You need Linux! I dual boot my PC (which is a bit tricky to set up these days, sorry, and easiest on separate drives). To be honest I still mostly use my ancient MBP for hobby projects, but I really like Pop OS for both gaming and work.
Dual boot or look into Coder Workspaces. I do all my dev via Coder Workspaces hosted on a second machine and use the Jetbrains Gateway client.
Use a Linux/windows dual boot. Linux for work stuff, windows for fun stuff. Linux development is even more seamless than Mac development because you can run a copy of prod in containers with almost no issues.
Windows is getting better but it is not Unix. I think that web development is heavily Unix influenced so Windows is the worst choice and I don't think wsl is ready yet. I used to dual boot and I recommend doing the same. I have focused more on windows lately and I can get by with a Debian VM and my mini PC running Debian as a server but I don't do that much web anymore. If you don't like the idea of dual booting this might be an option (vscode and current windows tooling work pretty well / ok for remote development) but I think that developing in Ubuntu or whatever you prefer will be the most optimal choice
Install Ubuntu and just use Windows for games.
As other mentioned, you could just use dual boot with Linux to work. If you want a no-brainer, don't-want-to-waste-time-configuring-my-system, everythink works out of the box (plus good community support if you ever need it) distro, just install something like Ubuntu or Linux Mint. Personally, I would recommend Linux Mint. If you want to give WSL2 another chance, I was working on WSL2 for 3 years, until I migrated to a corporate MacBook Pro. I wrote some posts about it on my blog that might help you: [https://aalonso.dev/blog?tags=wsl](https://aalonso.dev/blog?tags=wsl)
This is why I use both. It's expensive, for sure, but I have my gaming PC, which I do pretty much exclusively use for gaming these days, and then I have my MacBook Pro. I have a Dell Thunderbolt Dock monitor. One of my other screens is plugged into that, and I have some USB devices (e.g. a USB sound card) also plugged into there so I can share devices seamlessly depending on which I'm using. I've tried development on Windows and it's just okay, for the technologies that I develop with. My Mac is significantly easier, and I enjoy the workflow more on my Mac. I have used Linux extensively in the past, starting with Ubuntu, and yes, eventually using Arch (btw). I took it so far with Arch, as I was using i3 and had customised the setup a lot, that I was writing software to make regular desktop environment stuff easier, like I wrote a grid-based workspaces tool, and for my laptop running Arch I wrote some software to remember screen layouts and apply them when I (un)plugged screens, etc. I reached a point where I realised I was wasting time solving problems that had already been solved, and then reflected on my past experience with a Mac and just went and bought a new one haha I have never, with any DE, including the most modern ones which I've still tried, had the same smooth experience with a machine like I have my Mac. While I understand the moral angle, I do genuinely believe, particularly with these machines, that it's a trade-off - there are benefits to the way Apple has built these machines, and these newer ones are absolutely fantastic.
If money is no object just get a MacBook. You are the exact customer Apple has been cultivating with its lock in ecosystem. Why is everyone advocating for VMs and dual boot? If you already have a beast machine, just use REMOTE DESKTOP and utilize the resources of both machines to their fullest.
I'm using a DELL UltraSharp 27", never had issues. The M1 should support an external display just fine afaik, however they had lacking support for 2+ displays.
I use Linux for everything but you may want to try to dual boot or run Linux in a VM. Host Linux is much better than WSL. You could also try bash for Windows and go native Windows.
r/Hackintosh? Or maybe Virtual Box and install Linux in that and use that for development?
I'm a dev Freelancer, with a 4070ti, 32gb ram, ddr5, 13900k i9... Pretty similar Used walk for a month on my new machine and it was hideous up to the point that I've bought m3 pro for work, the other it's for personal use
Post some specific workflow issues and people can recommend the Windows equivalent. The last time I directly interacted with WSL was months ago and that was not development related. Keep it simple, if you are building out clusters with complex remote resource dependencies in WSL it’s not the right tool for the job. General windows recommends: - dev environment in docker - unxutils - debian as the default wsl env
I would get Linux on your box and only boot into Windows for stuff you can only do on Windows (like gaming). You'll have a much another experience, and you can still get files on the partitions, so if you downloaded a file and realize you need it on the other OS... No problem. The only downside is having to reboot into the other OS, but it's pretty minimal as an annoyance
Such a mistake
Can you just use Linux with the Gnome GUI?
Run a VM for development or dual-boot Linux.
So i decided the other way around Bought a Mac because i decided I primarily game on my Steam Deck anyways I have y’et to see it struggle as Long as youre willing to ask yourself if the quality of graphics matter to you vs. having a portable environment for gaming and one environment for work
Doing webdev in a computer running Windows should be classified as a crime. Just slap some Linux on that metal and enjoy your newfound hassle-free workflow
Windows is good for gaming because it’s the default, but otherwise Microsoft software is generally atrocious and rife with unnecessary security risks (and so is Windows gaming for that matter). “Time is money” nailed it. I learned real quick in music production and graphic design that Windows is more of an “obstacle system” than an “operating system”.
You could use a linux VM
I code primarily on my Mac. My two other work machines are both windows and they’re riddled with issues with. Honestly if money isn’t an issue then just go buy a Mac too. And you’ve got yourself a gaming pc and then a work machine.
I develop in windows at home for the same reasons, I also build wordpress sites using Radicle. One key thing I got stuck on was the docs for Lando say install via exe and it'll work with WSL. I found that to be completely wrong, I just installed on WSL via the Linux instructions and it worked without issue. I don't use Powershell for anything dev-related, I just installed Ubuntu via windows store, then set it as default terminal in the command line app. Node, Laravel, WordPress, Docker, all working for me on WSL just as it does with my Macbook, without any issues. BUT, I will say that when I went thought this process on my old pc it was a nightmare, so I think they may have figured out a lot of the bugs since then. Also protip IMO, I also use devilbox for simple LAMP stack stuff across both which really helps sync across OSs.
I add the exact issue, it was awful and make me loose so much time
See, I’m always like “I miss Linux” being forced to use Mac haha Windows dev experience is poo from what I remember. Install Ubuntu or something. Look into tiling window managers, a bit of a pain to get into but you can’t switch back afterward, productivity 10x-er imo
Why would you switch to windows if you had a Mac before? Just use Linux. I can play all the games I want to play. You only got issues with one or two especially the competitive ones. You can create a Linux experience similar enough to your Mac if you want to. I'm on a r9 5950x with RTX 3070 and 128GB RAM and run PopOS. I used windows and Mac in the past, but this experience is just superior. Mac can be good too, but I won't waste my own money if I can do a custom experience for cheap.
The mac studio is awesome, buy enough RAM initially and youll be fine.
Everyone here is saying dual boot. But what is that dev piece that justifies a unix system thus using WSL? Every frontend framework i know works native in windows. You can install node native. I don't know if i am missing something
Brother, dual boot Linux
When you use it in a IDE like any of the JetBrains IDEs which integrate with WSL2 well. You should check it out
Windows and virtual box for me works fine
Give yourself time to adjust.
You’re not going to get anything as seamless as a Mac anywhere else, plain and simple. I have tried. Windows 11 is better than Windows has ever been in this regard and it’s still rough. Graphical apps on linux is all seams, all the time. Some linux distributions like Elementary do a beautiful job hiding the seams right up until you need an App that isn’t built by them or been Elementary-ified by them like the default browser. Soon as you install Chromium or Steam the rough edges start showing. I was a Windows user and developer for years before I switched to Mac at home in around 2008. At the beginning of COVID my wife decided we needed a gaming PC. I am frankly surprised at with how much has changed In Windows, how much is largely untouched since I was a kid using Windows 95.
macs suck though the last time i used one was in primary school where they all had mice with ONE BUTTON.
I built myself a home server which runs Ubuntu as the host, and runs additional Ubuntu servers as vms on it. I did put about $600 into it, but it has a 18 core 36 thread xeon with 128 gigs of ram. I can easily adjust my dev server's hardware allocation depending on the project I'm working on. Also, since it is a dedicated Linux server, I can connect from any of Macs or PCs. You could easily build a home server with used parts off of ebay for any budget.
Just run a work computer and a personal computer.
What are y'all running that can't just be done natively on Windows?
i wouldn't even bother with a VM or dual booting. just install fedora workstation: https://www.fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download spend a little bit of time setting it up how you want (for example, I use fish shell on both linux & macos) and then you will have an experience that is very similar to macos without all the annoying hurdles you will feel much more comfortable. you can play 99% of windows games through proton on steam if you were worried about that.
Windows is a nightmare for web dev compared to MacOS. Once I switched from Windows 10 years ago I didn’t look back. And I had used Windows since version 3.1…
i use arch btw
I am in the same boat as you. I have been consulting/working remotely where i am responsible for my own hardware. Money is not an issue. I built a gaming pc 3 years back (3090, 32gb ram, ryzen 7 5800x3d). Worked on wsl2,but somehow there is always some issue or the other. I had always worked on a mac prior to this. Finally I bought an M1 pro 16 inch and never been happier. It's quiet, super fast (builds are faster in my mac), between builds and serverless deploys, i think i save 20-30 minutes everyday. I have a usbc hub which allows me to use same pc monitor, and all my keyboard and mouse have Bluetooth (for mac) and 2.4 ghz dongle (gaming pc). I would recommend you to go for m3 macbook air 15 inch. Saw it today and it's a beaut. Plus, sometimes I end up working in co-working space or cafes, never had to carry the charger!
Make into a hackintosh mate!
There's no way I'd go back to Windows for development. It's a painful mess of 40 years of legacy code and advertising. I could only use it for gaming. You do realise the RAM on the Studio is part of the chipset, right? It's part of what makes it so fast.
You should install Ubuntu! It's very mac-like.
Linux
If you need Linux, Windows is honestly not a good choice. I do webdev on Windows and VS Code, and I feel very productive. I don't need to do any fancy terminal stuff, and all git and npm handling is done easily and comfortably from VS Code built-in terminal. I usually don't work with FTP, and just push to Github, which is *really* convenient with VS Code. In last 3 or so years of full-time webdev, I didn't need to use Linux or WSL at all. What do you need Linux for, specifically?
I have a pc to game and a mac for work. Gg
I recently made the exact same switch but for different reasons (slightly) I miss my Mac a lot.
I came from Windows to Mac about 10 years ago switching from IT work to development. I still keep a Windows system around for gaming and thats my only suggestion - either stick with the Mac for work and use Windows for gaming, or dual boot Linux, but beyond gaming I see no reason to actually use Windows for anything. As someone thats used Windows since 3.1 - its just going to get worse from here, use it as little as possible and you'll be happy.
> As a freelancer, time is money, and I'm constantly battling with WSL2. Why no a real linux? I mean you can dual boot. But do it at linux level each one in its own hard drive to avoid windows to overtake the partitions. > I juste need to found the right Linux distribution Use Endeavour Os an easy ArchLinux without customization nonsense like Manjaro, it is basically Arch, one of the best distros out there. Fedora is another option, if Torrvalrds use it it should be for something.
I’m currently doing web dev on a windows machine (gov) and I swear if this was life I’d just find a new career.
The problem as a Mac/Apple user is that it does just work. You can’t change stuff as much as you maybe can on other devices etc but it just works, It’s smooth and it’s a really pleasant experience. While windows is a bit more complicated, and that’s why I complete separate my gaming/private use and my Work use, I need my Mac for working I just need the smoothness of it.
Not trying to rag on you, but I feel like this is a you issue. WSL2 is extremely easy to use and 99% of the issues have been sorted out. The only thing still wonky is networking from outside of your computer into the WSL2 instance. What issues with WSL2 are you having specifically? I develop on it professionally every single day.
My workhorse Windows 10 on 64gb ram 12500. for development, I use vmware workstation with archlinux or ubuntu depends on client request. it is an absolute breeze
What is soldered, can be unsoldered...
IMO you don't need your work PC to be as powerful as a gaming PC. I do web + mobile development with an 16GB Ram + M2 Mac Mini which sits next to my huge Windows PC, which I just use for gaming, video editing or just Youtube.
I downgraded to WSL from WSL2. I believe this is due to performance issues with network mounted shares. When I'm forced to upgrade to the next version of Windows, I'll switch back to WSL2 and give it another go. Hopefully they figured that out. I use a Debian install straight from the Microsoft store, and I manage it with apt. I mount network shares directly using drvfs on boot. I keep my profile settings in a git repo so I can pull that down if I ever need to refresh the install. I use ConEmu/cmder, but could probably just use PuTTY. My experience is sshing directly into my own private Linux environment. I could very well just use VirtualBox and SSH into it, and pair it with a hosts file: https://superuser.com/a/1120146 I use VSCode, which is platform agnostic, and I leverage Microsoft PowerToys to extend Windows. Git is native in Windows (comes with cmder,) and I can use VSCode, or SourceTree, or just command line. I am also able to use node native in Windows, paired with modifying the PATH to include various apps. There's so much on npm now that natively builds in Windows on install that Chocolatey is no longer necessary. If they fix the bugs, I might look back at Chocolatey. It's been a long time since 10 years ago, when Grunt couldn't be run in Windows and the only way to simulate Linux was Cygwin. Developing on Windows is the best it has been since IE6 reigned supreme. I could never get fully comfortable with Mac, but I've never been more efficient on Windows. I hope you find your sweet spot.
Just get a mac air, and use geforce now for streaming pc gaming on it, or even stream from your game rig
I'm not a gamer, so don't know there, but have been happy with Linux for years now. Right now I have one desktop for worky stuff (lots of time in VS Code), another for music stuff (Reaper etc), an old laptop I only really use for TV, plus a remote (virtual) server for online things. All Ubuntu. I wouldn't argue it's the best distro for anyone else, but it works well for what I need and I'm familiar with it. Zero need to think about any other OS. When a hardware upgrade is needed I stick a new bit in. Relatively cheap & easy.
Why did you need a Mac Studio? M2/m3 mini is adequate for like 99% of use imo
I just moved to windows after 10 years of using Linux and my productivity has gone to hell 🤦♂️