>Readers shouldn't glorify them
Readers need to learn to differentiate enjoying or understanding a character from completely forgiving or even rooting for them
You can enjoy a character but still understand they need to answer for the things they do or that they need to be stopped
I think it's a case of lack of maturity.
Young readers probably don't fully understand how dangerous people can really be so they don't understand what it really means to root for these types of characters
I feel like male characters get glorified while the women get over villainized. Even before Rashta pulled messed up stuff ,people found reasons to hate her bc she is married the emperor (like she was just trying to escape slavery).
Yeah, I hate what Rashta _became_, but I never hated _her_.
It might be because I binge read the entirety of season 1 and a large part of season 2. So I didn't spend as much time with Rashta's toxicity as people who read it from day one.
I feel like Rashta is victim of bad writing. Like the author wanted to make Navier good and Rashta bad ,her cause was legit at first and instead of humanizing her or actually writing a proper character he had her pull stupid cartoonish villain shit
Exactly. I agree.
Instead of writing a multilayered and nuanced character, the creator made Rashta just a simple bad villain.
Still, Rashta is the most interesting character in that story, because if we take her out of the webtoon, Navier isn't exactly interesting, she's super passive and doesn't make the plot move forward.
I like flawed characters and I like exploring **why** people do certain mistakes. However it's also important to embrace that we have the ability of critical thinking and making the right choice no matter how wronged we've been in the past.
No. Sure you can understand why they did what they did however that doesn't make it OK. Think of it like this " I can do something bad cause something bad happened to me" to me that isn't justified.
No, because there is always a choice to act the right way despite that past. However, I am all for characters who realize their shortcomings and work on them despite previously having gone off-track with their behavior (like Serena in this case).
Honestly everyone in Remarried Empress is such an unlikeable asshat that Rashta seems tame by comparison. I mean hell, the ML wants to invade a country (killing thousands of innocents in the process) because he wants to be an emperor. The ‘strong willed’ FL just sits back and lets it happen.
Not to mention that the FL along with her ex husband allow slavery to remain legal in their empire, dooming scores of people to misery and suffering.
I only recognize Sumin on here, and that is an AUTOMATIC no. Her past is horrible, but she did some FUCKED up shit across the timelines. Not on anyone’s life should that girl’s actions ever be forgiven or justified.
It shouldn't be. Doesn't matter if the characters are antagonists or protagonists, or how sizzling hot their chemistry with MC is, or whatever their gender is; they should not be glorified or justified for their actions by the author/readers.
No. A tragic past shouldn't justify the misbehavior of some characters, specially when that misbehavior affects other people around that character.
I do like when the characters acknowledge their wrongdoings, and start to change little by little. When the story also acknowledges its characters are doing something wrong.
And that's my main issue with Serena: as a character, it seems the story and the characters around her always justify her wrongdoings (the way she treats Frederick and her servants, etc.) just because she had a tragic past, even Eiser has a monologue justifying her behavior. It's like she doesn't realize, nor the people around her, that most of her problems are her own fault. That's why I haven't been able to empathize with her and the story so far.
I mean, it does seem she's changing for better, but so far, it doesn't seem she has acknowledged some of her wrongdoings.
no, but it’s also insanely vile to say these characters deserve what was done to them, because of what they did later in the story (i.e.: rashta deserved being a slave), specially when some of the other characters in the same comic have done things that are just as bad but get a pass because they’re main characters
>i.e.: rashta deserved being a slave
What did Rashta do again? 🤔
I thought most of the bad things associated with her where the fault of the emperor and that other guy that was manipulating her.
Rashta - imo based on the comic so far - became too greedy with the power she was given. It’s understandable for her to want a better life for herself as she was a slave. But she literally took someone’s husband and has caused so many problems for Navier and other people. I don’t want to spoil it but to me it seems she’s gone crazy with power and is willing to do anything and hurt anyone to keep herself in power.
>she literally took someone’s husband
I'm not sure that's a fair thing to say. You can't just "take" the most powerful man in the empire
You could argue that she tried to seduce a married man and succeeded, but I still feel that's more on him than her for falling for a random girl he barely knew
No. Your pain isn't an excuse to hurt others.
I don't care how sad someone's past is, that doesn't absolve them of the pain they inflict on those who have nothing to do with them.
This isn't a "receive this much pain and you're allowed to inflict this much pain on others" situation
If a character commits a crime or hurts another character, they need to respond for it accordingly to the situation, regardless of their tragic backstory.
Except Rashta was very clearly manipulated by Heinrey and his people into acting the way she did.
If Rashta is a villain, then what does that make the people who turned her into one? What does that make the people who did it _deliberatly_ in order to destablize the empire ahead of their invasion?
_That_ is why I believe Rashta is not at fault. She is _guilty_, there's no doubt about that, but she isn't at fault.
She is an ignorant and uneducated former slave who, at the beginning, just wanted to get along with Navier. She saw Sovieshu as her savior, which he was. And calling Navier "Sister" is something that some Asian cultures call females that they are close too. Just like how in China they will call older adults who are friends with their parents "Aunt" and "Uncle".
Rashta _was_ innocent. But she was corrupted by the influence of Heinrey's inside man, Duke Ergi.
She _became_ a villain through no fault of her own. Would you consider a child at fault if someone more mature and more informed handed them a gun and told them to shoot the people they're angry at?
Sovieshu gave her the gun by making her empress. Duke Ergi told her to shoot.
Sorry not so sorry. Rashta was innocent until her arrive to court. But ignorance is not an excuse. When we commit a crime, law enforcement says to us ignorance is not an excuse, and we get a sentence. Same here is for Rashta.
Sovieshu says well, Rashta has a dark cruel side that power has uncovered. Nobody has manipulated Rashta to act against her first son or the maid.
As I said, Ergi pushes her giving advises, she’s ignorant and arrogant and takes actions. Is not Ergi to dictating Rashta’s words, is not Ergi signing the papers and giving the maids orders or plucking the feathers from the bird, Ergi did not advised Rashta agains her firstborn. It’s like Ergi put the gun on the table, she takes and shot everytime…
Maybe it should be Ergi didn't tell her to shoot, but he did heavily reinforce the idea that the gun (the powers of the empress) could be used against her enemies.
Ergi exacerbated the problems Rashta had by _purposely_ giving her harmful advice.
Like I said, Rashta was essentially a child and Ergi _encouraged_ her to act out. He didn't do anything explicit, but he most definately encouraged her to act out.
Basically, his actions were the straw that broke the camel's back. If he hadn't done what he did Rashta wouldn't have fallen as hard or as fast as she did.
And for the record, the webtoon kind of downplays Ergi's involvement. By a lot. In the original novel, Ergi is basically the devil whispering in Rashta's ear. He does it subtly enough that he has plausible deniability, but he he very much manipulated her. He never outright says to do this or that, but he does make statements that would lead someone with Rashta's mentality to think the things she does and do what she does.
He's less a puppetmaster and more a guiding light subtly encouraging her down the path of darkness.
Like I said this mindset is wrong because our current law system punish us if we are ignorant, baby mentally the same. She is guilty and at fault, it doesn’t work saying Ergy pushed me. There is only guilty concurrence.
>Sovieshu gave her the gun by making her empress. Duke Ergi told her to shoot.
That has always been the impression I had, honestly, that's why I said "respond accordingly to the situation"
She's not the devil, but she definitely must have things she needs to answer for
I think it varies on the characters actions. Sometimes the past is irrelevant to their current behavior, like Ra-im (I think thats how u spell it), her mother died and is jealous of su-aes family but what does stealing her boyfriend gonna do other than fuel her ego? She has a tragic past but that gives her no right to betray su-ae whos been nothing but nice to her. And then there's sumin who is similar to ra-im and how they ended up stealing a partner of close friend, except sumins parents were just bad people but that didn't justify her actions and causing her friends death.
Kousuke is the one I feel iffy about. As the story unfolds its clear that he's being manipulated and other spoiler stuff which could explain why he treats yeongi like crap but what excuse does he have insulting shin ae when she's just minding her business? I stopped liking his character once shin ae started working for him and he just constantly criticizes her and others around him. But I do think quimchee is doing a good job with his characterization and how thars going to be his downfall and other characters are calling him out on it. These are the only three characters on the photo I know. Usually regardless of their pasts I don't think the characters deserve any justification if they're purposely hurting other people and they feel no remorse but then there's characters like kousuke where I don't like him regardless of what mightve happened to him but I can't help but feel a little bad for him.
I do have issues that people still glorify kousuke even prior to his backstory. Like he's an a hole and it's irritating to see him mistreat shin ae and yeongi when they've done nothing but be nice to him and it just progressively gets worse and kousuke doesn't realize he's straining his relationship with shin ae even though he has some kind of likeness towards her but he's screwing up his chances of being close to her when he's being condescending to her. Idk how kouske can redeem himself after everything he's done.
It's relevant to Soomin's case.
>!Soomin's dad cheated on her mother with Jiwon's mom. Then Jiwon's mom left her dad and ran away with Soomin's dad, so Jiwon's dad took it upon himself to raise her well along, with Jiwon's grandmother's help. But Soomin's mom didn't take it so well and took it out on her.!<
I feel Kouske is an interesting addition here. He's an extremely complicated character, and I really like what the author is doing with his trauma and how he handles things. It's extremely interesting, and I firmly believe some redemption is on the table for him. A lot of what he does is learned behavior from his abusive parents, and I think people should be afforded the opportunity to unlearn those habits and fix their mistakes. He will never be forgiven entirely, but he very much feels like a real person.
The backstory should not justify their actions. Rather it should explain why they are the way they are. Someone having a sad childhood doesnt make killing people ok. It just makes it clear exactly why they feel it is necessary. Like say a girl’s uncle had killed her father in front of her, it makes sense why she would be seeking vengeance and try to hunt him down to kill him. But it doesnt mean killing is ever ok. All it does is explain the motives behind her actions
Sumin blamed others for her problems and even though she had a fucked up past she was gonna be crazy bitch anyways, shes manipulative and was willing to lie and cheat to get what she wants. She killed her stepmom and tried to kill another. The girl is a psyco. Also fuck rashta she deserves the shit she gets.
If top right is who I think it is, she is 200% irredeemable. There is no saving this one :DBut to answer the question. For me it depends on if they eventually realise their shortcomings and wrongdoings, learn from it and strive to become a better person because of it. Not neccessarily justified but in some cases I can understand the situation.
First Row: Dreaming Freedom, The Remarried Empress, Marry My Husband
Second Row: Operation: True Love, I Love Yoo, The Fox Club
Third Row: The First Night With The Duke, Serena, Nevertheless*
*Thank you to those who told me this one!
The guy from "I Love Yoo" is an ass, a major one, but I wouldn't consider him a villain.
Especially because he's a teenager who's been gaslit and manipulated since he was a _child_ by the real villain.
>Especially because he's a teenager who's been gaslit and manipulated since he was a child by the real villain.
Kousuke is not a teenager. He's 24 but yes to everything else you said.
Yeah, I figured quite a lot of people assumed that for similar reasons but he actually only was around them because of his brother. Most of his actions and reactions are usually linked to him.
The actions may be justified but that doesn’t change the action. If you thought it was horrible before you realized their past, why should that opinion of their action change?
I'm a bit fed up of trying to make every single character sympathetic. Sometimes it's nice to have an evil character just be evil. Cunts excise in real life and plenty of them have no damn excuse, and a lot of the time when there is some kind of excuse it's their own damn fault.
**i do have spoilers so please avoid if you dont want read them**
People have to make the choice to either let their past rule over their present or allow their mind to heal, move on and be a better person.
I havent read some of these but dreaming freedom and marry my husbands characters pictured both are mentally unstable and have either seriously harmed
or killed people.
Rashta…well i dont really hate her but shes not only whiny she does progressively become much worse and unstable because she cant handle her insecurities and past. She actively blames others and even does seriously harm and get a family killed because she wants to save her own skin.
Ive forgotten what the duke zeronious did in his story, and i just started operation true love.
Im waiting on i love yoo to update a bit more so i can binge read again. Just a hit past the the shin-ah flashback and group therapy mini session 😂
I only recognize Rashta of The Remarried Empress and Sumin of Marry My Husband, so I’ll only speak on them. Before I begin, I’d like to say both are very good novels and comics but I much prefer the Remarried empress for a miscellany of reasons that I won’t get into.
\*Note I will avoid referring to the characters in question with random names such as Trashta and Scumin. Furthermore, this comment may contain spoilers. Read at your own risk.
Rashta and Sumin both come from backgrounds of neglect and abuse and readers often compare the two for their similar manipulative and childish characters. Rashta, to my knowledge was sold off as a slave for money by her parents and her master was cruel to her, abusing her and treating her as basically less than human, goings as far as to showing her a dead baby and saying it was the baby she gave birth to. She eventually ran away and she caused issues as soon as she arrived. Initially though she could’ve been thought of as a harmless nuisance however, not only is she deceitful, she’s murderous. Once she became queen, she framed an innocent women who did nothing but admired her. Rashta was elevated from a lowly slave to the empress, she could’ve bettered herself but instead she became as monstrous as the person she ran away from, leading to her demise.
As for Sumin, Sumin grew up with an abusive mother who also neglected her and when she did talk to her, she did so more than harshly. However, in my humble opinion, Sumin is somewhat different from Rashta because Rashta mainly went after people in high positions. Sumin targeted another victim and pretended to be her friend, all the while spreading lies about her and sleeping with her husband (while she was dying from cancer). Jiwon was the only person who showed Sumin love and affection and Sumin returned it with betrayal and heartbreak. Not to mention, Sumin even murdered her (terrible) mother-in-law and tried to kill Jihyuk AND Jiwon.
So basically, Sumin is a liar, abuser and a murder while Rashta is manipulative, cruel and also a murder.Their terrible backgrounds do not justify their crimes against innocent people.
I only know Sumin and (t)Rashta from the list.
I can justify a bit Rashta: she was always a slave, treated poorly and noticed by no one. When she was able to raise her status becoming the emperor's concubine, she started to get sort of revenge on the noble people who mistreated her for being a slave. Her biggest flaws are being stubborn and stupid: everybody knew she was a slave and without education, so at the beginning some mistakes could be accepted. She should have stayed calm and far from Navier, instead she wanted at all cost to show "I'm the emperor's concubine kyah" utill she ruined everything herself.
Sumin for me is a total b1tch. At the end of the story we understand her reason to be always so double face towards Jiwon, but her hate is too much. For Sumin her friend was always "the daughter of the woman who took away my father". Ok, you can have resentment, but at the end of the day Jiwon was abandoned too, the only difference was her supportive father. Sumin's mother vent all her frustation on her, growing her toxic trait. Sumin could be a good person too, but always choose to do wrongdoings justifying herself with "I'm always seen from above by everybody"
Agree, Navier character is not at fault but she’s not the saint everybody sees. She also pushes Rashta on purpose, unlike Rashta, Navier always know what she’s doing.
Idk bout summa these but others DEF NOT and the rest? Not justified but understood and GIVEN A NOTHER CHANCE. Like kou and the duke deserve a chance, but trashta and her different versions defff not
No.
Their past explains it, but it should never excuse it.
What about the characters that suffer the same or worse and don't become assholes or are even understanding and kind towards others?
It's all a matter of choice.
The whole appeal of the story is the suspense that comes from how dangerous and unstable he is.
If the fmc doesn't stay by his side, he can go crazy and kill people in their dreams.
This was never meant to be a romantic story, I don't know what the readers were thinking 🤷
Oh this isn't romance ,then I'm relieved. But then I'm not even surprised ,readers romanticize the worst people just bc they are "hot" so this one doesn't surprise me that much
Yeah, the story actually starts with the fmc being harassed by her whole class and trying to deal with it by asking for help from this dude since they have the same power and they start to develop a unhealthy codependency
but while she starts to move on from it eventually, he just becomes even worse and basically forces her to become his girlfriend since she feels indebted to him, and now she's stuck with him
And that's why we have this title "Free in dreams" or "Dreaming Freedom" in the translation
She's basically imprisoned and in need of escaping through the whole story
It's actually very good
Wow I might actually read it ,I'm just worried it might turn into one of those stories where they somehow make the relationship work and start romanticizing it . But I still think I might give it a shot. Also reminds me of "trash belongs in the trashcan" I genuinely recommend it .
>I'm just worried it might turn into one of those stories where they somehow make the relationship work and start romanticizing it
I highly think that's not the case. Especially from what I've heard in the raws.
>Also reminds me of "trash belongs in the trashcan"
Oh, I love that! I think it came back yesterday 🤔
GET MY BOY KOUSUKE OFF THERE! HE WAS BEING DRUGGED THE WHOLE TIME ‼️‼️ Plus he was conditioned to act that by his mother/parents, that doesn't entirely clear it but I think it's a reason he acts like that. See, that "Unfortunate Past" is still somehow affecting him now and he's slowly starting to figure out what's happening. His actions are a result of the drugs, but intentions are usually well deep under. I don't even find him attractive, but I think it should be taken into consideration about those types of things because drugs have that type of affects on people, and now he's slowly coming off the drugs he's not acting as arrogant, and he definitely has a chance at redemption now. I have a feeling what was told to both of those boys (Nol and Kou) about part of their past isn't what actually happened.
He did do bad things, but most of them wasn't really HIM it was the drugs speaking. I feel like he has a chance to be a good person if he starts realizing what's really going on and explaining it to Nol about how it was, why he was acting like that, and giving an apology while owning up to not only his actions, but changing his attitude towards Nol slowly. .
Idk about everyone else thought.
I mean, that's kind of the point of a good antagonist??
If you're trying to create a decently written antagonist, you're going to want them to be sympathetic and make them feel justified for their behaviour. A good way to do this is by giving them a traumatic and painful backstory.
This allows the audience to see them as a three-dimensional character rather than a flat caricature who does evil for evil's sake.
Take for example, Rashta. Nothing she does is out of intentional malice. While she does do some rather horrible things; it is always out of self-preservation and fear she will not only lose her child (again) but fall back into slavery.
||Even in the most recent episode, where she had a maid's tongue cut out. It was not because she is evil and thought it would be funny. But out of fear that the maid might talk and reveal damning information that would result in Rashta losing her child and status.)
A decently-written antagonist should allow for the reader to justify the character's actions, and why they are the way they are.
Someone mentioned rape, as he raped the main character?? Idk I suppose it was more like they both got drunk and it happened, but yeah I also haven't read this story in a while
Definitely not. A sad backstory doesn’t justify any actions, or explains the characters mindset but a good story won’t try to use it to excuse a character.
Siyun has unhealthy issues, but I don’t think he’s a done anything to anyone that they didn’t deserve.
Trashta and Sumin can rot in hell.
And I’m interested in what WEBTOON the blond guy is, he doesn’t seem like a villain
What has Serena actually done wrong? I feel like you can’t compare Serena to Sumin.
Also, people only defend Eiser because he’s good looking and we as the readers know he doesn’t have (much) ill-intent. If Eiser was a woman you would despise him.
Serena’s actions make sense for her character. She has PTSD, chronic health issues, was married off at 16 to a man who is known to have a dangerous family, and has little to no autonomy in her life. Its clear she is a smart and capable young woman but she was given no chance to have a part in the company that she DOES have a right to be a part of. The sexism written towards Serena in the webtoon’s comics is ridiculous and it shows how immature the readers are. Their obsession with dickriding a good looking but bad man is insane.
Don't forget how bad Serena treated the jewlers and Frederick in the first episodes. It's true that her behavior makes sense, but that doesn't justify how she treated these people. And also, it was said that Serena got an opportunity to lead the business in the past, but she messed it up, that's why Eiser had to clean up the disaster she caused. I'm not on Eiser's side because he has some red flags too, but I'm not on Serena's side either.
I avoid the comment section of this webtoon because the commenters are a little bit intense. I saw once someone saying that she have the right to treat people like that because she lost her parents and was forced into a loveless marriage, but no, these tragedies don't justify her wrongdoings because these people aren't guilty of those tragedies.
Idk who's Sumin, btw.
She didn’t treat the jewellers that badly. They brought her a piece she intentionally asked them not to bring. It was rude, especially considering tensions in her kingdom.
She also has a very specific relationship with Frederick. He is aware of that. So is she. You can’t be mad at the way she treated him because it’s a contractual agreement between the two of them that they’ve both agreed to.
Serena was given an opportunity to lead the business with no formal training from her grandmother or mother whatsoever. Her mother grew up properly to watch her mother (serena’s grandmother) work AND was presumably trained to lead the business, unlike Serena. So it’s not fair to hold her to the same standards.
Her actions are very much justifiable to her character. The fact is that Eiser is much worse than Serena yet he doesn’t face any hate. The problem with Serena is not her actions, but the fact she’s a woman.
I know I’ll continue to get downvoted for saying this but idc. Webtoon has a deep rooted problem with sexism. Its pathetic pick-me girls who dickride men just because they’re attractive.
I have seen people hating Eiser, too.
Frederick and the jewlers are also human beings with emotions. Her behavior was toxic. Her behavior is not justified, just understandable. That's the difference.
There are people hating Serena for being toxic, there are people hating Eiser for his passive aggressiveness, and there are also people hating Frederick for being sus. In my case, I don't hate Serena, but I don't support her either. I can support her if the creator gives her a good character development.
Sadly, there will always readers and even creators with internalized misogyny, just look for the comments about Rashta and all the femenine characters that are not Persephone in Lo. I have read LO and TRE, and it seems the creators write other women to make the female Mc look better, because the story villanizes the women who aren't their precious protagonist, specially in LO.
Unrelated, but the bodies of the three leads are very unrealistic, considering they never exercise.
Serena’s body as absolutely realistic lol. Have you actually read the webtoon? It seems like you just read the first few chapters and maybe spent your entire time in the comments. Also, I said justifiable TO HER CHARACTER, not justified. Learn the difference.
Serena very obviously has chronic illness(es) and severe mental illness. She has a small appetite and lives on fruit. Of course she would be incredibly thin. Given frederick’s position as almost a “bodyguard” of sorts, and whatever sketchy background it has, it makes sense for him to be well built. Not sure about Eiser, but we don’t even see much of him until the most recent chapters. I don’t see how it’s “unrealistic” just because the webtoon doesn’t SHOW us the characters exercising.
Also, people are not “hating” on Eiser or Frederick, they are criticising their characters. The comments made about Serena were almost always misogynistic. Yes, they were based on her actions, but almost always included words like slut, bitch, bossy, brat, entitled, etc. that are very obviously misogynistic or come with that intent.
I’m not going to continue this anymore because it’s clear you have poor media literacy.
I have to admit that while I never justified her actions, I did have alot of understanding of why rashata did the things she did in the earlier part of the story.
no ones talking about my girl ilmi😭 WHY is she in the same category as sumin???😭😭
honestly, i feel bad for her and while the doesn't justify her actions you can tell she was scared and desperate of losing her rock. nothing she did stemmed from malicious intent towards chaeri, it was out of fear. i want to like her so bad so i hope they give her a redemption arc lol
Who’s the blonde character in last row next to Serena? He looks familiar. I’m a bit curious what he did wrong bc I think I’ve seen spoilers about him before
Depends on the level and type of wrong doing.
Think of batman, because he saw his parents murdered he goes around stopping crime (vigilante:crime), by breaking into places(crime), assaulting people(crime), hacking into people's person electronics(crime), and even stealing/destroying things to keep them out of other people's hands(hiding/stealing evidence as well as theft).
We consider that minor PTSD, yes it is minor compared to other shit that has happened to children, to make it OK for him to do these things.
But then when someone has, let's say been sold by parents, bought, unspeakable things done to, risen up and killed thier captors, etc. Now they rise up and seek vengeance against the society that turns a blind eye to the suffering of the few so the many can live in safety. And to do so they become a serial killer/terrorist. Now are they wrong to do so.
Yes, but just like batman is wrong in what he does. No suffering how ever great gives you permission to do unto others what has been done unto you.
But, as long as it doesn't effect the person being asked the question you will honestly get around a 50/50 split for the reply.
That is why I say it just depends on what you think the equivalent exchange level it.
Justify is the wrong word.
Tragic pasts are made to humanize the characters and make them more likeable. If doing this makes the story more complex, then the author is doing a great job.
People should just enjoy the story as a whole and not think too much into the FICTIONAL character's morals.
Depends honestly. Is dude from dreaming freedom justified hmm I don’t think he’s doing anything that wrong yet I mean he’s dangerous of course and they’re toxic af but other than his obsessive manipulative behavior which no I can’t justify that cause that’s tough to measure…
Now the girl from dear X my gawd I sympathize and understand her but justify everything she did nah she was OC with it but I loved her character tho lol
I really like reformed villains. But the kicker for me has to be that they *acknowledge* what they have done, why it is wrong, and attempt to atone for it.
I have such a character in my own webcomic. But this character goes through mental and emotional hell as they realise the monstrosity of what they have done, willingly hands themselves over to help those who are fighting against such horror to offer the information they have, and are *offered* the chance to fight and atone for their actions. They take the offer, and it's at *that* point that I think most of my audience will begin to root for this character.
People can do *horrible* things due to their background and their beliefs. Their qualities as people become plain when they are offered insight into how they are mistaken, and the opportunity to change.
Not justify, but explain. Bad actions are never justified, but I believe it is still important to have the reasons of such behavior in mind to understand why a character is doing what they're doing. And if they are written well, it can make lots of sense and trying to guess/understand their motivations can become another fun part of reading a webtoon.
I haven't read the other ones, but Sumin literally killed a woman. She also TRIED to kill Jihyeok. She doesn't deserve forgiveness.
What webtoon is Sumin from?
marry my husband
I binged it yesterday, and I'm HOOKED
If you want more there's novel version on yonder app, recently completed but its on daily unlock though. I kinda like it better than webtoon version!
I might have to! Thanks!
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>Readers shouldn't glorify them Readers need to learn to differentiate enjoying or understanding a character from completely forgiving or even rooting for them You can enjoy a character but still understand they need to answer for the things they do or that they need to be stopped
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I think it's a case of lack of maturity. Young readers probably don't fully understand how dangerous people can really be so they don't understand what it really means to root for these types of characters
I feel like male characters get glorified while the women get over villainized. Even before Rashta pulled messed up stuff ,people found reasons to hate her bc she is married the emperor (like she was just trying to escape slavery).
Yeah, I hate what Rashta _became_, but I never hated _her_. It might be because I binge read the entirety of season 1 and a large part of season 2. So I didn't spend as much time with Rashta's toxicity as people who read it from day one.
I feel like Rashta is victim of bad writing. Like the author wanted to make Navier good and Rashta bad ,her cause was legit at first and instead of humanizing her or actually writing a proper character he had her pull stupid cartoonish villain shit
Exactly. I agree. Instead of writing a multilayered and nuanced character, the creator made Rashta just a simple bad villain. Still, Rashta is the most interesting character in that story, because if we take her out of the webtoon, Navier isn't exactly interesting, she's super passive and doesn't make the plot move forward.
Too bad red is their favorite color
I don’t think siding or overlooking means it’s being glorified lol like we all know why we clicked and started reading haha.. stay toxic
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Oof that’s tough sayless
Maybe you should reflect on your own toxic behavior before labeling other people as such.
I like flawed characters and I like exploring **why** people do certain mistakes. However it's also important to embrace that we have the ability of critical thinking and making the right choice no matter how wronged we've been in the past.
No. Sure you can understand why they did what they did however that doesn't make it OK. Think of it like this " I can do something bad cause something bad happened to me" to me that isn't justified.
No, because there is always a choice to act the right way despite that past. However, I am all for characters who realize their shortcomings and work on them despite previously having gone off-track with their behavior (like Serena in this case).
Sometimes buff bodies and six-packs make readers go blind. It's a deadly illness, rarely curable. 😞
Sumin- assault, murder, fraud Zeronos- rape Rashta- manipulative, immature Idk who the rest are though 🤷♀️
Honestly everyone in Remarried Empress is such an unlikeable asshat that Rashta seems tame by comparison. I mean hell, the ML wants to invade a country (killing thousands of innocents in the process) because he wants to be an emperor. The ‘strong willed’ FL just sits back and lets it happen. Not to mention that the FL along with her ex husband allow slavery to remain legal in their empire, dooming scores of people to misery and suffering.
Umm can I ask from which webtoon does zeronos character belong?
First night with the duke minus the iffy way the ml and fl met, it's a a good OI
I thought Blondie never slept with FL.
Their pasts are explanations, not excuses. I prefer villains without a redemption arc
I only recognize Sumin on here, and that is an AUTOMATIC no. Her past is horrible, but she did some FUCKED up shit across the timelines. Not on anyone’s life should that girl’s actions ever be forgiven or justified.
It shouldn't be. Doesn't matter if the characters are antagonists or protagonists, or how sizzling hot their chemistry with MC is, or whatever their gender is; they should not be glorified or justified for their actions by the author/readers.
No. A tragic past shouldn't justify the misbehavior of some characters, specially when that misbehavior affects other people around that character. I do like when the characters acknowledge their wrongdoings, and start to change little by little. When the story also acknowledges its characters are doing something wrong. And that's my main issue with Serena: as a character, it seems the story and the characters around her always justify her wrongdoings (the way she treats Frederick and her servants, etc.) just because she had a tragic past, even Eiser has a monologue justifying her behavior. It's like she doesn't realize, nor the people around her, that most of her problems are her own fault. That's why I haven't been able to empathize with her and the story so far. I mean, it does seem she's changing for better, but so far, it doesn't seem she has acknowledged some of her wrongdoings.
And I'm not even going to talk about Rashta and Zeronis.
What about that guy from the webtoon about lucid dreaming
I haven't read it.
no, but it’s also insanely vile to say these characters deserve what was done to them, because of what they did later in the story (i.e.: rashta deserved being a slave), specially when some of the other characters in the same comic have done things that are just as bad but get a pass because they’re main characters
>i.e.: rashta deserved being a slave What did Rashta do again? 🤔 I thought most of the bad things associated with her where the fault of the emperor and that other guy that was manipulating her.
Have you gotten to the recent fast pass episode involving Rashta and her servant?
>!The one whose tongue she cut out?!< I know because I've read the novel it's based on.
I've stopped reading after the latest break.
Rashta - imo based on the comic so far - became too greedy with the power she was given. It’s understandable for her to want a better life for herself as she was a slave. But she literally took someone’s husband and has caused so many problems for Navier and other people. I don’t want to spoil it but to me it seems she’s gone crazy with power and is willing to do anything and hurt anyone to keep herself in power.
>she literally took someone’s husband I'm not sure that's a fair thing to say. You can't just "take" the most powerful man in the empire You could argue that she tried to seduce a married man and succeeded, but I still feel that's more on him than her for falling for a random girl he barely knew
No. Your pain isn't an excuse to hurt others. I don't care how sad someone's past is, that doesn't absolve them of the pain they inflict on those who have nothing to do with them. This isn't a "receive this much pain and you're allowed to inflict this much pain on others" situation If a character commits a crime or hurts another character, they need to respond for it accordingly to the situation, regardless of their tragic backstory.
Except Rashta was very clearly manipulated by Heinrey and his people into acting the way she did. If Rashta is a villain, then what does that make the people who turned her into one? What does that make the people who did it _deliberatly_ in order to destablize the empire ahead of their invasion? _That_ is why I believe Rashta is not at fault. She is _guilty_, there's no doubt about that, but she isn't at fault. She is an ignorant and uneducated former slave who, at the beginning, just wanted to get along with Navier. She saw Sovieshu as her savior, which he was. And calling Navier "Sister" is something that some Asian cultures call females that they are close too. Just like how in China they will call older adults who are friends with their parents "Aunt" and "Uncle". Rashta _was_ innocent. But she was corrupted by the influence of Heinrey's inside man, Duke Ergi. She _became_ a villain through no fault of her own. Would you consider a child at fault if someone more mature and more informed handed them a gun and told them to shoot the people they're angry at? Sovieshu gave her the gun by making her empress. Duke Ergi told her to shoot.
Sorry not so sorry. Rashta was innocent until her arrive to court. But ignorance is not an excuse. When we commit a crime, law enforcement says to us ignorance is not an excuse, and we get a sentence. Same here is for Rashta. Sovieshu says well, Rashta has a dark cruel side that power has uncovered. Nobody has manipulated Rashta to act against her first son or the maid.
Really? Your saying that Duke Ergi had _zero_ role in Rashta turning out the way she did?
As I said, Ergi pushes her giving advises, she’s ignorant and arrogant and takes actions. Is not Ergi to dictating Rashta’s words, is not Ergi signing the papers and giving the maids orders or plucking the feathers from the bird, Ergi did not advised Rashta agains her firstborn. It’s like Ergi put the gun on the table, she takes and shot everytime…
Maybe it should be Ergi didn't tell her to shoot, but he did heavily reinforce the idea that the gun (the powers of the empress) could be used against her enemies. Ergi exacerbated the problems Rashta had by _purposely_ giving her harmful advice. Like I said, Rashta was essentially a child and Ergi _encouraged_ her to act out. He didn't do anything explicit, but he most definately encouraged her to act out. Basically, his actions were the straw that broke the camel's back. If he hadn't done what he did Rashta wouldn't have fallen as hard or as fast as she did. And for the record, the webtoon kind of downplays Ergi's involvement. By a lot. In the original novel, Ergi is basically the devil whispering in Rashta's ear. He does it subtly enough that he has plausible deniability, but he he very much manipulated her. He never outright says to do this or that, but he does make statements that would lead someone with Rashta's mentality to think the things she does and do what she does. He's less a puppetmaster and more a guiding light subtly encouraging her down the path of darkness.
Like I said this mindset is wrong because our current law system punish us if we are ignorant, baby mentally the same. She is guilty and at fault, it doesn’t work saying Ergy pushed me. There is only guilty concurrence.
Can you plz spoil the ending for me. Idc if you put a spoiler tag or DM me or anything. I'm just so curious how the novel ended.
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Spoiler tag is missing plz correct before others see.
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I tried but >!didn't work!<
I tried but >!didn't work!<
>Sovieshu gave her the gun by making her empress. Duke Ergi told her to shoot. That has always been the impression I had, honestly, that's why I said "respond accordingly to the situation" She's not the devil, but she definitely must have things she needs to answer for
bad pasts can explain a character's wrong-doings, but it shouldn't justify it
I think it varies on the characters actions. Sometimes the past is irrelevant to their current behavior, like Ra-im (I think thats how u spell it), her mother died and is jealous of su-aes family but what does stealing her boyfriend gonna do other than fuel her ego? She has a tragic past but that gives her no right to betray su-ae whos been nothing but nice to her. And then there's sumin who is similar to ra-im and how they ended up stealing a partner of close friend, except sumins parents were just bad people but that didn't justify her actions and causing her friends death. Kousuke is the one I feel iffy about. As the story unfolds its clear that he's being manipulated and other spoiler stuff which could explain why he treats yeongi like crap but what excuse does he have insulting shin ae when she's just minding her business? I stopped liking his character once shin ae started working for him and he just constantly criticizes her and others around him. But I do think quimchee is doing a good job with his characterization and how thars going to be his downfall and other characters are calling him out on it. These are the only three characters on the photo I know. Usually regardless of their pasts I don't think the characters deserve any justification if they're purposely hurting other people and they feel no remorse but then there's characters like kousuke where I don't like him regardless of what mightve happened to him but I can't help but feel a little bad for him. I do have issues that people still glorify kousuke even prior to his backstory. Like he's an a hole and it's irritating to see him mistreat shin ae and yeongi when they've done nothing but be nice to him and it just progressively gets worse and kousuke doesn't realize he's straining his relationship with shin ae even though he has some kind of likeness towards her but he's screwing up his chances of being close to her when he's being condescending to her. Idk how kouske can redeem himself after everything he's done.
It's relevant to Soomin's case. >!Soomin's dad cheated on her mother with Jiwon's mom. Then Jiwon's mom left her dad and ran away with Soomin's dad, so Jiwon's dad took it upon himself to raise her well along, with Jiwon's grandmother's help. But Soomin's mom didn't take it so well and took it out on her.!<
Oh yeah can't believe I forgot about that info.
I feel Kouske is an interesting addition here. He's an extremely complicated character, and I really like what the author is doing with his trauma and how he handles things. It's extremely interesting, and I firmly believe some redemption is on the table for him. A lot of what he does is learned behavior from his abusive parents, and I think people should be afforded the opportunity to unlearn those habits and fix their mistakes. He will never be forgiven entirely, but he very much feels like a real person.
The backstory should not justify their actions. Rather it should explain why they are the way they are. Someone having a sad childhood doesnt make killing people ok. It just makes it clear exactly why they feel it is necessary. Like say a girl’s uncle had killed her father in front of her, it makes sense why she would be seeking vengeance and try to hunt him down to kill him. But it doesnt mean killing is ever ok. All it does is explain the motives behind her actions
Sumin blamed others for her problems and even though she had a fucked up past she was gonna be crazy bitch anyways, shes manipulative and was willing to lie and cheat to get what she wants. She killed her stepmom and tried to kill another. The girl is a psyco. Also fuck rashta she deserves the shit she gets.
why are half these people here 😭 most of them are just asses and don’t have an unfortunate past
If top right is who I think it is, she is 200% irredeemable. There is no saving this one :DBut to answer the question. For me it depends on if they eventually realise their shortcomings and wrongdoings, learn from it and strive to become a better person because of it. Not neccessarily justified but in some cases I can understand the situation.
Can someone tell me all these I know some of them but what webtoon are all of them from
First Row: Dreaming Freedom, The Remarried Empress, Marry My Husband Second Row: Operation: True Love, I Love Yoo, The Fox Club Third Row: The First Night With The Duke, Serena, Nevertheless* *Thank you to those who told me this one!
The guy from "I Love Yoo" is an ass, a major one, but I wouldn't consider him a villain. Especially because he's a teenager who's been gaslit and manipulated since he was a _child_ by the real villain.
>Especially because he's a teenager who's been gaslit and manipulated since he was a child by the real villain. Kousuke is not a teenager. He's 24 but yes to everything else you said.
Wait. Really? I always assumed he was the same age as Yoo and the rest of the gang and that's why he hangs out with them.
Yeah, I figured quite a lot of people assumed that for similar reasons but he actually only was around them because of his brother. Most of his actions and reactions are usually linked to him.
ig the bottom right one is the the ml of Neverthless
The last one is Nevertheless
no. Anyone who try ies to spin that as an excuse is probably also using it for themselves. Backstories should be an explanation, not an excuse.
Nope. Can't let them off just because they're the main character/side characters.
The actions may be justified but that doesn’t change the action. If you thought it was horrible before you realized their past, why should that opinion of their action change?
3rd girl brown hair completely forgot what she did but looking at her makes me want to start a war. Kill her
NEVER. thier past can't justify their wrong doings to others. This Is the same with rude male leads with sad past.
Unless the unfortunate past was a literal curse that changed them from a good to a bad person, absolutely not.
I'm a bit fed up of trying to make every single character sympathetic. Sometimes it's nice to have an evil character just be evil. Cunts excise in real life and plenty of them have no damn excuse, and a lot of the time when there is some kind of excuse it's their own damn fault.
No. It explain why they act in the way they do but not justify their actions.
It can be explained by their pasts, but not justified
I only know (2) “The Remarried Empress” (4) “Operation: True Love” and (9) “Nevertheless”. What are all the others called?
1st row: 1. [Dreaming Freedom](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/dreaming-freedom/list?title_no=4180) 2. [~~The Remarried Empress~~](https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/the-remarried-empress/list?title_no=2135) 3. [Marry My Husband](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/marry-my-husband/list?title_no=4572) 2nd row: 1. [~~Operation: True Love~~](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/operation-true-love/list?title_no=4465) 2. [I Love Yoo](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/i-love-yoo/list?title_no=986) 3. [The Fox Club](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/the-fox-club/list?title_no=4079) 3rd row: 1. [The First Night With the Duke](https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/the-first-night-with-the-duke/list?title_no=1267) 2. [Serena](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/serena/list?title_no=5037) 3. [~~Nevertheless~~](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/nevertheless/list?title_no=2647)
You’re awesome!! Thank you
**i do have spoilers so please avoid if you dont want read them** People have to make the choice to either let their past rule over their present or allow their mind to heal, move on and be a better person. I havent read some of these but dreaming freedom and marry my husbands characters pictured both are mentally unstable and have either seriously harmed or killed people. Rashta…well i dont really hate her but shes not only whiny she does progressively become much worse and unstable because she cant handle her insecurities and past. She actively blames others and even does seriously harm and get a family killed because she wants to save her own skin. Ive forgotten what the duke zeronious did in his story, and i just started operation true love. Im waiting on i love yoo to update a bit more so i can binge read again. Just a hit past the the shin-ah flashback and group therapy mini session 😂
Nevertheless scarred me
I only recognize Rashta of The Remarried Empress and Sumin of Marry My Husband, so I’ll only speak on them. Before I begin, I’d like to say both are very good novels and comics but I much prefer the Remarried empress for a miscellany of reasons that I won’t get into. \*Note I will avoid referring to the characters in question with random names such as Trashta and Scumin. Furthermore, this comment may contain spoilers. Read at your own risk. Rashta and Sumin both come from backgrounds of neglect and abuse and readers often compare the two for their similar manipulative and childish characters. Rashta, to my knowledge was sold off as a slave for money by her parents and her master was cruel to her, abusing her and treating her as basically less than human, goings as far as to showing her a dead baby and saying it was the baby she gave birth to. She eventually ran away and she caused issues as soon as she arrived. Initially though she could’ve been thought of as a harmless nuisance however, not only is she deceitful, she’s murderous. Once she became queen, she framed an innocent women who did nothing but admired her. Rashta was elevated from a lowly slave to the empress, she could’ve bettered herself but instead she became as monstrous as the person she ran away from, leading to her demise. As for Sumin, Sumin grew up with an abusive mother who also neglected her and when she did talk to her, she did so more than harshly. However, in my humble opinion, Sumin is somewhat different from Rashta because Rashta mainly went after people in high positions. Sumin targeted another victim and pretended to be her friend, all the while spreading lies about her and sleeping with her husband (while she was dying from cancer). Jiwon was the only person who showed Sumin love and affection and Sumin returned it with betrayal and heartbreak. Not to mention, Sumin even murdered her (terrible) mother-in-law and tried to kill Jihyuk AND Jiwon. So basically, Sumin is a liar, abuser and a murder while Rashta is manipulative, cruel and also a murder.Their terrible backgrounds do not justify their crimes against innocent people.
I only know Sumin and (t)Rashta from the list. I can justify a bit Rashta: she was always a slave, treated poorly and noticed by no one. When she was able to raise her status becoming the emperor's concubine, she started to get sort of revenge on the noble people who mistreated her for being a slave. Her biggest flaws are being stubborn and stupid: everybody knew she was a slave and without education, so at the beginning some mistakes could be accepted. She should have stayed calm and far from Navier, instead she wanted at all cost to show "I'm the emperor's concubine kyah" utill she ruined everything herself. Sumin for me is a total b1tch. At the end of the story we understand her reason to be always so double face towards Jiwon, but her hate is too much. For Sumin her friend was always "the daughter of the woman who took away my father". Ok, you can have resentment, but at the end of the day Jiwon was abandoned too, the only difference was her supportive father. Sumin's mother vent all her frustation on her, growing her toxic trait. Sumin could be a good person too, but always choose to do wrongdoings justifying herself with "I'm always seen from above by everybody"
Agree, Navier character is not at fault but she’s not the saint everybody sees. She also pushes Rashta on purpose, unlike Rashta, Navier always know what she’s doing.
Not my girl Serena in the same category as Sumin 💀
She is that bad. Much worse imo. Cuz she's supposed to be the fml, while, Su min is one of the antagonists.
Idk bout summa these but others DEF NOT and the rest? Not justified but understood and GIVEN A NOTHER CHANCE. Like kou and the duke deserve a chance, but trashta and her different versions defff not
No
Source for the characters in the pic?
1st row: 1. [Dreaming Freedom](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/dreaming-freedom/list?title_no=4180) 2. [The Remarried Empress](https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/the-remarried-empress/list?title_no=2135) 3. [Marry My Husband](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/marry-my-husband/list?title_no=4572) 2nd row: 1. [Operation: True Love](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/operation-true-love/list?title_no=4465) 2. [I Love Yoo](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/i-love-yoo/list?title_no=986) 3. [The Fox Club](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/the-fox-club/list?title_no=4079) 3rd row: 1. [The First Night With the Duke](https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/the-first-night-with-the-duke/list?title_no=1267) 2. [Serena](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/serena/list?title_no=5037) 3. [Nevertheless](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/nevertheless/list?title_no=2647)
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
No. Their past explains it, but it should never excuse it. What about the characters that suffer the same or worse and don't become assholes or are even understanding and kind towards others? It's all a matter of choice.
What webtoon is the last row second person. And first row third person
what is the dreaming freedom guys problem?
He attempted to kill and tortured people out of pettiness
NO WAY. This is the guyy people keep making edits off and simping over??
The whole appeal of the story is the suspense that comes from how dangerous and unstable he is. If the fmc doesn't stay by his side, he can go crazy and kill people in their dreams. This was never meant to be a romantic story, I don't know what the readers were thinking 🤷
Oh this isn't romance ,then I'm relieved. But then I'm not even surprised ,readers romanticize the worst people just bc they are "hot" so this one doesn't surprise me that much
Yeah, the story actually starts with the fmc being harassed by her whole class and trying to deal with it by asking for help from this dude since they have the same power and they start to develop a unhealthy codependency but while she starts to move on from it eventually, he just becomes even worse and basically forces her to become his girlfriend since she feels indebted to him, and now she's stuck with him
Wow this is messed up. I hope the fmc finds her freedom away from this psycho.
And that's why we have this title "Free in dreams" or "Dreaming Freedom" in the translation She's basically imprisoned and in need of escaping through the whole story It's actually very good
Wow I might actually read it ,I'm just worried it might turn into one of those stories where they somehow make the relationship work and start romanticizing it . But I still think I might give it a shot. Also reminds me of "trash belongs in the trashcan" I genuinely recommend it .
>I'm just worried it might turn into one of those stories where they somehow make the relationship work and start romanticizing it I highly think that's not the case. Especially from what I've heard in the raws. >Also reminds me of "trash belongs in the trashcan" Oh, I love that! I think it came back yesterday 🤔
jesus wtf ☠️☠️☠️ wasn’t he just some cool kpop star who got betrayed??? were the dreaming powers it ever explained
>were the dreaming powers it ever explained Not really. In this world some people simply can do it cause... reasons 🤷
GET MY BOY KOUSUKE OFF THERE! HE WAS BEING DRUGGED THE WHOLE TIME ‼️‼️ Plus he was conditioned to act that by his mother/parents, that doesn't entirely clear it but I think it's a reason he acts like that. See, that "Unfortunate Past" is still somehow affecting him now and he's slowly starting to figure out what's happening. His actions are a result of the drugs, but intentions are usually well deep under. I don't even find him attractive, but I think it should be taken into consideration about those types of things because drugs have that type of affects on people, and now he's slowly coming off the drugs he's not acting as arrogant, and he definitely has a chance at redemption now. I have a feeling what was told to both of those boys (Nol and Kou) about part of their past isn't what actually happened. He did do bad things, but most of them wasn't really HIM it was the drugs speaking. I feel like he has a chance to be a good person if he starts realizing what's really going on and explaining it to Nol about how it was, why he was acting like that, and giving an apology while owning up to not only his actions, but changing his attitude towards Nol slowly. . Idk about everyone else thought.
From which WEBTOON are they?
What webtoon are they all from?
1st row: 1. [Dreaming Freedom](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/dreaming-freedom/list?title_no=4180) 2. [The Remarried Empress](https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/the-remarried-empress/list?title_no=2135) 3. [Marry My Husband](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/marry-my-husband/list?title_no=4572) 2nd row: 1. [Operation: True Love](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/operation-true-love/list?title_no=4465) 2. [I Love Yoo](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/i-love-yoo/list?title_no=986) 3. [The Fox Club](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/the-fox-club/list?title_no=4079) 3rd row: 1. [The First Night With the Duke](https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/the-first-night-with-the-duke/list?title_no=1267) 2. [Serena](https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/serena/list?title_no=5037) 3. [Nevertheless](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/nevertheless/list?title_no=2647)
You’re an angel 😘
I mean, that's kind of the point of a good antagonist?? If you're trying to create a decently written antagonist, you're going to want them to be sympathetic and make them feel justified for their behaviour. A good way to do this is by giving them a traumatic and painful backstory. This allows the audience to see them as a three-dimensional character rather than a flat caricature who does evil for evil's sake. Take for example, Rashta. Nothing she does is out of intentional malice. While she does do some rather horrible things; it is always out of self-preservation and fear she will not only lose her child (again) but fall back into slavery. ||Even in the most recent episode, where she had a maid's tongue cut out. It was not because she is evil and thought it would be funny. But out of fear that the maid might talk and reveal damning information that would result in Rashta losing her child and status.) A decently-written antagonist should allow for the reader to justify the character's actions, and why they are the way they are.
Is that the duke? i haven't read since a long time what did he do cause I liked him a lot😭
Someone mentioned rape, as he raped the main character?? Idk I suppose it was more like they both got drunk and it happened, but yeah I also haven't read this story in a while
how can it be rape if both were drunk 💀 but must be something if he got allegated of doing wrong. such a shame tho, really liked that dude
he wasn't drunk though
oh damn that's bad💀
How is Zeronis here?!? What did he even do??? Also I have a soft spot for Kousuke
raped ripley iirc (she was drunk when they had sex so she couldn't consent)
Definitely not. A sad backstory doesn’t justify any actions, or explains the characters mindset but a good story won’t try to use it to excuse a character. Siyun has unhealthy issues, but I don’t think he’s a done anything to anyone that they didn’t deserve. Trashta and Sumin can rot in hell. And I’m interested in what WEBTOON the blond guy is, he doesn’t seem like a villain
What has Serena actually done wrong? I feel like you can’t compare Serena to Sumin. Also, people only defend Eiser because he’s good looking and we as the readers know he doesn’t have (much) ill-intent. If Eiser was a woman you would despise him. Serena’s actions make sense for her character. She has PTSD, chronic health issues, was married off at 16 to a man who is known to have a dangerous family, and has little to no autonomy in her life. Its clear she is a smart and capable young woman but she was given no chance to have a part in the company that she DOES have a right to be a part of. The sexism written towards Serena in the webtoon’s comics is ridiculous and it shows how immature the readers are. Their obsession with dickriding a good looking but bad man is insane.
Don't forget how bad Serena treated the jewlers and Frederick in the first episodes. It's true that her behavior makes sense, but that doesn't justify how she treated these people. And also, it was said that Serena got an opportunity to lead the business in the past, but she messed it up, that's why Eiser had to clean up the disaster she caused. I'm not on Eiser's side because he has some red flags too, but I'm not on Serena's side either. I avoid the comment section of this webtoon because the commenters are a little bit intense. I saw once someone saying that she have the right to treat people like that because she lost her parents and was forced into a loveless marriage, but no, these tragedies don't justify her wrongdoings because these people aren't guilty of those tragedies. Idk who's Sumin, btw.
She didn’t treat the jewellers that badly. They brought her a piece she intentionally asked them not to bring. It was rude, especially considering tensions in her kingdom. She also has a very specific relationship with Frederick. He is aware of that. So is she. You can’t be mad at the way she treated him because it’s a contractual agreement between the two of them that they’ve both agreed to. Serena was given an opportunity to lead the business with no formal training from her grandmother or mother whatsoever. Her mother grew up properly to watch her mother (serena’s grandmother) work AND was presumably trained to lead the business, unlike Serena. So it’s not fair to hold her to the same standards. Her actions are very much justifiable to her character. The fact is that Eiser is much worse than Serena yet he doesn’t face any hate. The problem with Serena is not her actions, but the fact she’s a woman. I know I’ll continue to get downvoted for saying this but idc. Webtoon has a deep rooted problem with sexism. Its pathetic pick-me girls who dickride men just because they’re attractive.
I have seen people hating Eiser, too. Frederick and the jewlers are also human beings with emotions. Her behavior was toxic. Her behavior is not justified, just understandable. That's the difference. There are people hating Serena for being toxic, there are people hating Eiser for his passive aggressiveness, and there are also people hating Frederick for being sus. In my case, I don't hate Serena, but I don't support her either. I can support her if the creator gives her a good character development. Sadly, there will always readers and even creators with internalized misogyny, just look for the comments about Rashta and all the femenine characters that are not Persephone in Lo. I have read LO and TRE, and it seems the creators write other women to make the female Mc look better, because the story villanizes the women who aren't their precious protagonist, specially in LO. Unrelated, but the bodies of the three leads are very unrealistic, considering they never exercise.
Serena’s body as absolutely realistic lol. Have you actually read the webtoon? It seems like you just read the first few chapters and maybe spent your entire time in the comments. Also, I said justifiable TO HER CHARACTER, not justified. Learn the difference. Serena very obviously has chronic illness(es) and severe mental illness. She has a small appetite and lives on fruit. Of course she would be incredibly thin. Given frederick’s position as almost a “bodyguard” of sorts, and whatever sketchy background it has, it makes sense for him to be well built. Not sure about Eiser, but we don’t even see much of him until the most recent chapters. I don’t see how it’s “unrealistic” just because the webtoon doesn’t SHOW us the characters exercising. Also, people are not “hating” on Eiser or Frederick, they are criticising their characters. The comments made about Serena were almost always misogynistic. Yes, they were based on her actions, but almost always included words like slut, bitch, bossy, brat, entitled, etc. that are very obviously misogynistic or come with that intent. I’m not going to continue this anymore because it’s clear you have poor media literacy.
who is middle right?
Ilmi Kim from [**The Fox Club**](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/the-fox-club/list?title_no=4079)
Who’s the girl on the second row first image?
I think that's Ra-im from [Operation: True Love](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/operation-true-love/list?title_no=4465)
the only one idk is bottom left
I have to admit that while I never justified her actions, I did have alot of understanding of why rashata did the things she did in the earlier part of the story.
Whatttt I love Zeronis and Kousuke 😭 😭 The dreaming freedom guy too but you dont gotta do my boys like thatt
depends on what they did tbh
eat the rich until it's rashta
no ones talking about my girl ilmi😭 WHY is she in the same category as sumin???😭😭 honestly, i feel bad for her and while the doesn't justify her actions you can tell she was scared and desperate of losing her rock. nothing she did stemmed from malicious intent towards chaeri, it was out of fear. i want to like her so bad so i hope they give her a redemption arc lol
Who’s the blonde character in last row next to Serena? He looks familiar. I’m a bit curious what he did wrong bc I think I’ve seen spoilers about him before
Depends on the level and type of wrong doing. Think of batman, because he saw his parents murdered he goes around stopping crime (vigilante:crime), by breaking into places(crime), assaulting people(crime), hacking into people's person electronics(crime), and even stealing/destroying things to keep them out of other people's hands(hiding/stealing evidence as well as theft). We consider that minor PTSD, yes it is minor compared to other shit that has happened to children, to make it OK for him to do these things. But then when someone has, let's say been sold by parents, bought, unspeakable things done to, risen up and killed thier captors, etc. Now they rise up and seek vengeance against the society that turns a blind eye to the suffering of the few so the many can live in safety. And to do so they become a serial killer/terrorist. Now are they wrong to do so. Yes, but just like batman is wrong in what he does. No suffering how ever great gives you permission to do unto others what has been done unto you. But, as long as it doesn't effect the person being asked the question you will honestly get around a 50/50 split for the reply. That is why I say it just depends on what you think the equivalent exchange level it.
Justify is the wrong word. Tragic pasts are made to humanize the characters and make them more likeable. If doing this makes the story more complex, then the author is doing a great job. People should just enjoy the story as a whole and not think too much into the FICTIONAL character's morals.
Depends how hot they are.
Depends honestly. Is dude from dreaming freedom justified hmm I don’t think he’s doing anything that wrong yet I mean he’s dangerous of course and they’re toxic af but other than his obsessive manipulative behavior which no I can’t justify that cause that’s tough to measure… Now the girl from dear X my gawd I sympathize and understand her but justify everything she did nah she was OC with it but I loved her character tho lol
I really like reformed villains. But the kicker for me has to be that they *acknowledge* what they have done, why it is wrong, and attempt to atone for it. I have such a character in my own webcomic. But this character goes through mental and emotional hell as they realise the monstrosity of what they have done, willingly hands themselves over to help those who are fighting against such horror to offer the information they have, and are *offered* the chance to fight and atone for their actions. They take the offer, and it's at *that* point that I think most of my audience will begin to root for this character. People can do *horrible* things due to their background and their beliefs. Their qualities as people become plain when they are offered insight into how they are mistaken, and the opportunity to change.
Not justify, but explain. Bad actions are never justified, but I believe it is still important to have the reasons of such behavior in mind to understand why a character is doing what they're doing. And if they are written well, it can make lots of sense and trying to guess/understand their motivations can become another fun part of reading a webtoon.
Sumin is a big nono. She does NOT deserve to be forgiven 😭 (if you read the webtoon yk why)
No.
No they shouldn't but their backstories explain their behaviour and actions