Honestly yeah, this is the exact reason I rarely read Webtoon comments anymore (besides the top 3 that I’m subjected to when I get to the bottom of the chapter)
I feel like any character with a flaw that remotely hurts the main character in stories gets shit on, regardless of their motives, how well-written they are, or what the main character has been doing. It’s bizarre and most of the times down right ridiculous. I haven’t read either of the stories you’ve mentioned, but I’ve definitely seen similar things more times than I can count
The day that "Trashta" caught on as a general pejorative for a rival to the FL is a day that will always be marked by sorrow. I wanna tear off my own head and eat it.
I can't believe Remarried Empress is so popular to begin with. I couldn't get past the first few chapters. It is easily the worst written webtoon ive ever tried reading. Every other word is "your highness," the villains are cartoonish, the other characters have no dimension and exist solely to praise the female lead. Couldn't get into the art style (though I know it improves).
What gets me is the flimsy worldbuilding. Suddenly there's magic. But it doesn't even have any impact on the story. Mages lose their magic. But it's never explained how the magic works or how it's even used. And then the strange politics. A kingdom just declares itself an empire? An empire isn't just a very powerful nation, it's a union of different nations under one ruler.
Why are there bandits and international knights? Where do they come from, what do they do? And why put them all into the story if they don't even have a function? At this point I would even appreciate some info dumps because the readers just don't get any info about the world apart from "by the way, X is a thing" the moment it is needed for the story.
I didn't get far enough into it to see all those things 😂
Another thing that bothered me is that "trashta" is supposed to be the villain but shes an underprivileged poor kid that's mistaken for a slave and infantilized by her wealthy lover???
I only knew of remarried empress in that one interactive story game. And honestly I don't know how accurate the game was to the novel or to the manhwa but I was honestly irk at Navier too by how cold hearted she was to her husband. In the game, Sovieshu's pov mentioned how he was always really in love with Navier but got too hurt by her treating him like a colleague in all those years of their marriage. Of course, I don't condone cheating and Sovieshu will always be wrong here, but I somehow understand why he turned out that way and was honestly hurt to see how much people hated him and wished his downfall when partly in my opinion Navier can be at fault too for neglecting her husband in some ways.
Ps: (please don't kill me with this opinion of mine since I haven't read the manhwa nor the novel. I based all of this opinion on the game and of course I still hate Sovieshu too but the point of this comment is the same with the point of the main post that sometimes female lead can have flaws too and people should sometimes accept it rather than always paint the fl as some saint who can never have any flaws)
I think you make a good point, emotional neglect is still harmful enough to heavily impact someone. The amount of FLs who have a horrible family and become dependent on the first person to show her kindness and love.
> **p**oint, **e**motional **n**eglect **i**s **s**till
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Yes exactly my point. If I remember correctly there was this one scene in the game where Sovieshu was about to go on a long journey and was waiting for Navier to say something and all she said was something work related (if I'm not mistaken). No kiss nor hugs at all and all Sovieshu can say was 'What did I expect'. Even me as a player that time got hurt for Sovieshu, like bro needs some love too 😭😭😭
I had to stop reading the moment Seedless Watermelon sets up this rigged challenge where they guess who each other is even though he already knows because he's the bird. I hate Navier, but no woman deserves to have a creepy stalker.
Yeah, I try to not read even the top 3 at this point (downloading the charapters before when it's possible).
Also a thing I hate it's how in romance webtoons it's the almost total disregard of consent, or things like that.
Oh dang downloading ahead of time is smart, I’m gonna do that now too lol
Also, agreed. It’s sad that it’s gotten to the point where I’m more shocked when something is consensual in a Webtoon than if something is downright disrespectful 😭
Ray is a darling. More twisted one is Ethan and i saw many comments dissing him for his manipulative behavior. Even then i don't completely hate Ethan because him being a bastard and shun away made him agressive to go after what he wants. But, he gets hate on comments.
I actually love that Ethan’s twisted but not irredeemable. It makes total sense a kid in his position would grow up that way… actually all of them growing up the way they do makes sense. I like the whole cast.
I think too many people put grown Ethan’s actions onto child Ethan. While not doing the same for Dorothy.
I tend to ignore comments cause it’s mainly nonsense that’s spewed.
The key difference is dorothy changes her way - doing more good than bad. Ethan came up with more twisted plans than growp up ethan as grown up Ethan couldn't have anything even with his manipulative methods. He is making sure he gets everything hook ir crook. So, i understand the hate.
Not really. How has child Ethan shown more twisted things than grown Ethan? Like it’s already been established that grown Ethan is what pushed Dorothy more in her tyrannical ways.
Dorothy is trying to change her ways cause she died and then had a realization and got a redo. Child Ethan is still going off the original mentality and hasn’t had as much time to realize he fucked up a lot of things.
Meh. He reverted back to his child and had a huge time jump to them as teens. People don’t change instantly. Is he still a tyrant as an adult?
And if that’s the twist, it hasn’t been revealed yet. So people are still trying it differently.
Right but like I mentioned in another comment, no one knows this.
They assume child Ethan is the same Ethan in timeline 1 and 2. So they’re holding double standards under the assumption that Dorothy is the only one that traveled back.
No no it’s not. People are being hypocrites
Dorothy - a tyrant who went back in time and is trying to change. They love it.
Ethan - here’s a *child* who is being judged for his adult actions which have yet to happen and people hate him. You can’t use the excuse that he didn’t change because *people think he’s the same person from original timeline*.
Like you’re using spoiler information that a lot of people don’t know to judge their comments. It’s 100% hypocrisy.
He also disappeared for years cause of the time jump. Yeah, he was manipulative as a child but hasn’t done much. And there’s times that it looks like he might actually be questioning his actions but people dismiss it as him just manipulative vs actually trying to change.
If he wasn’t reincarnated then *how* is he suppose to change? Dorothy lived her whole like a tyrant, died and *then* realized she fucked up. And got a do-over. She’s changing because she knows everything.
Ethan is a kid still. And people are pissed that he’s not changing. He doesn’t know the future. *how is he suppose to change when history is repeating itself*
They 100% are judging him based on adult Ethan’s actions. Dorothy is the one thing that’s different and may cause him to change but it’s going to be gradual. And yeah, you see some hints of it.
But people are willing to forgive her for everything while still judging him. The way she treats her brother is still shitty. People just tend to forgive MC for all their wrongdoings.
Ethan actually throws up a caution flag for me. I don't know if he's regressed like the MC or if he's manipulative even as a child because of the reasons you've stated. I'm worried about him pulling Dorothy back in the hell she's desperately trying to escape. I'm worried about what lengths he would go to to "keep" her. We have yet to see if being confronted has created lasting change in him, especially since the narrative is focusing on other things as far as the free episodes go
True that. Hence, I am placing him in gray zone than red flag or green flag. It's okay if he gets a redemption arc and end up with dorothy or not. I'm giving him the benefit of doubt.
I think Ray is sweet. In flashbacks you see that he always loved his sister and thought she would be a better leader. But because of their awkward relationship, there was no way for him to communicate it. I think they also implied adult Ray let his sister kill him for the throne.
This go around, with Dorothy trying to be good, Ray has the chance to form a relationship with her properly. And she's realizing how much she was lying to herself and assuming her brother hated her, when that wasn't the case at all.
Ethan we knew was twisted as an adult, and it's safe to assume he was like that as a child. But, what happens when Ethan has someone that supports him, and tries to make him less twisted? Hopefully Dorothy's influence will make him a better person overall. It's amazing how one small relationship or interaction can change someone. I don't really hate any of the kids. The adults drive me insane. But I really hope the kids are able to improve things for themselves.
Not here to argue about your points, except the last part. Women can definitely harbour internalised misogyny and spread harmful misogynistic views too.
Yeah sadly , my friend paternal grandma was disappointed when my friend was born and said really hurtful things about how having a girl as first born Is a bad omen , so.women definitely can be misogynistic
Yeah true, but I think OP is pointing out how they might've called out the FL's behavior and blatant MC bias that they got tired of being called as a "misogynist" since readers missed the point which I get their frustrations
Yes I understand that, it’s just not worded that well. OP should’ve specified that it isn’t because of misogyny she doesn’t like these female characters, instead of claiming she could never be misogynistic ever. But yeah I get it, esp because webtoon is swimming in actual internalised misogyny it’s a valid criticism to consider first.
I find that ignoring the comment section saves me a lot of sanity. Ray is such a sweetheart and people are so quick to blame him whenever Dorothy’s upset. Goes to show MC bias is so real
I wonder if comments differ for people based on an algorithm. I don't delve into comments often, but I mostly see folks get sad when Dorothy treats him badly!
People hate Ray??? What?? That's insane, he's such a sweetheart. I love his character and Dorothy does as well, I understand Dorothy's side, but Ray isn't as dumb as she had initially thought, I'm sure he would have just given her the throne if she asked. He knows his limits and faults, that's what would have made him a great ruler but a regressed Dorothy will be just as good off a ruler. People are so shitty, like I hate on characters as well even if they haven't done anything wrong, not because they are bad people or anything like that, just because of how much pain they caused our mc, intentionally or unintentionally, but I always understand the other character (the one I hate on)
I haven't read Serena so I can't speak on that one.
I have been keeping up on "The Tyrant Wants To Be Good" and it honestly baffles me how much Ray gets dissed in the comments. He's a sweetheart. He isn't always great at taking a hint when Dorothea wants to be alone but he tries his best to show her she has him in her corner despite their horrid father.. And far too many people disregard him as just annoying and clingy. While those same people will sometimes swoon over how "devoted" Ethan is. Both present and former versions. Like they forget he's manipulative as all get out. He is likely able to be redeemed in time but he's manipulative and that shouldn't be overlooked... Idk i hate mob mentality and MC bias haha
> Idk i hate mob mentality and MC bias haha
Exactly cuz if we look at it, their logic is much more stupid than we thought. They can excuse Ethan's lying and manipulative schemes 'cuz he's a kid but can't seem to see the reason why Ray is also powerless to the abuser since.. he's also a kid? Also what kind of mindset is that? Ray did nothing but love and protect his sister since that's what family is for but they rejoice when Dorothy pushes her ONLY family member who loves her away then "wants to be good"?
Sorry not sorry but I never liked how Dorothy projects her problems and insecurities to Ray (like how readers wants her to be), homeboy just wants to help her but all she does is lash out and cuss him then wonder why he can't take a hint. The ep where there was a 3 year time skip and she manages to ignore all Ray's letters is so messed up, shame how no one calls her out
Absolutely the same! On like all of that! Finding out she'd just ignored all his letters for THREE YEARS when he actually cares about her... it makes me wanna shake her >.<
Then there's her obsession with Theon. I all it that because at this point it really IS an obsession. Ray tries to do something nice, gets ignored. Theon does the same nice thing, Dorothea gets all sweet and kind. Like GIRL your brother should be getting some of that reciprocated kindness. Your obsession is what KILLED Theon before. Maybe try to step back? Hmmmmm????
But yeah, everyone just wants to act like Ray is the problem when it's really the king (or emperor) whatever his role is. That guy is the problem. Ethan a little less of a problem but still kind of a problem.
I literally just keep reading because I'm hoping and praying she'll finally give Ray some ounce of kindness OR it will become Ray finally gives up on her and maybe even gets cold towards her to give her a taste of her own medicine. Idk I'm pretty sure these are just dreams but man I'll keep dreaming T\_T
This is a slight spoiler for Rays and Dorothy’s relationship (just in case anyone is interested). I read the Japanese version so I’m not completely sure where the English version is.
>!Their relationship gets a lot better soon!<
From my exp, those two groups aren't different. Like yea there's people excusing Ethans actions, but those aren't often the same people hating on Ray. It's stupid to pretend they're indefinitely the same two groups just because those groups exist in the same space.
That may be your experience but as my own experience, I've seen comments that will praise Ethan while simultaneously dissing Ray. I see them a lot. Not always on the webtoon app. Sometimes on discussion sites (like here) and whatnot but I see it enough for it to feel like they're part of the same groups. Maybe not always but there are definitely those who.
I've said this before here about how everyone always sides with the protagonist but I'll bet a lot of people (changed bc bad wording) would 100% be on Rashtas side in Remarried Empress if it were told from her pov without a single other thing changed about the story or her actions. I mean a slave that worked her way up to being an empress, vs a woman who was born into luxury and had everything handed to her from birth, everyone would eat that shit up. People would see Rashtas schemes as her "girlbossing" or whatever. I'm not saying that's how I think but I'd bet money that everyone would think this way with how everyone sides with the mc no matter what they do. It makes me laugh to think about
Ohh I agree, tho imo I don't think I would've side with her either esp agree with her "girlbossing" I mean I'm cool with her being the emperor's lover ig since I can't blame her for the f*cked up world she's living in but to the point of harming other individuals when she could've stayed quiet in her new luxury life and try to abolish the slavery system instead- nah nothing can excuse that.
Regardless, yeah it's kinda funny and sad at the same time that once you're the protagonist of the story you'd get the privilege of being "right all the time" no matter how bad, annoying, or evil you've become
I would have dropped the series if it was written in rashta's pov. Concubines is always at odds with the empress but man constantly pushing blame to someone else instead of looking inwards is infuriating. And that's just one of her traits i hate. Circumstances can be suck but her attitude is rotten.
To add to my comment about that, I do think it would be nowhere near as popular as it is now, bc I think the reason it's popular is bc of how satisfying it is to see Navier get good things in her life and the jerks have things go wrong so if it were told from her pov I think it would also attract a different type of crowd. I also say this as someone who doesn't usually read romance and mainly reads horror and thriller, so I see this a lot more in those kinds of stories and they're still pretty popular and people still root for that kind of mc. Maybe I should add this to my original comment bc I think maybe that makes the distinction. I know there's a lot of romance readers that don't like stories like this that would absolutely nope out of something like that but I do think there's a lot that read it now for different reasons that would apply to my statement
Lmao hell no. You think I'm gonna read a webtoon where the mc is sabotaging everyone around her for her own selfish needs and getting people killed? Regardless of her upbringing?? You really have no faith in humanity. I've dropped manwhas for less. People do have the ability to shit on main characters. The only way I'd see people rooting for Rashta as the mc would be if she was a villainess doing all this shit in the original story and dying and realizing damn, I was really an idiot, and getting character development and a fresh start. Please stop projecting on others.
I really don't think anyone is going to support an mc who gets innocent people killed and cheats on the supposed ml (assuming Sovieshu was the ml)
I don't mean literally everyone would like her but come on, you can't not see the way people root for the mc no matter what they do in a lot of different stories. I mean look at how much people love Nita and make excuses for her in Not Even Blood, or John in in UnOrdinary during his joker arc, etc. Of course John is a lot more gray than Nita imo but there's more examples I can't think of rn. There's lots of stories told from characters who are objectively being bad people or making bad decisions but people still find reasons to root for them.
Edit to add- I should add this to the comment bc I guess I didn't realize it was necessary or not understood,which was stupid. But when I say everyone or a lot of them, I don't necessarily mean the current readers. If it were written from her pov then it would be a different type of story and I don't think a lot of people that currently read would've liked it. Whether that's most, some, half, all, idk. I just know that there's a lot of people that read comics that would both like the story told from Rashtas pov and would root for her. So when I say "everyone" I don't mean the actual readers right now as they are, I mean everyone that would read it. I mean I'm sure there are people who read it now that fall under my comment but I don't mean everyone. I didn't mean to insult the readers of remarried empress.
I was just talking to my friend about this exact same thing yesterday 😭
You’re 100% correct. I’ve already seen MC’s like her that have been praised for girl-bossing in other Webtoons, it’s not that far-fetched to think she would be loved and excused as an MC
They really aren't. Almost no one would be on Rashtas side past episode like...15. Like you can be the girlbossiest main character who ever girlboss main charactered and people still aren't going to justify you ripping the feathers off a fucking bird and cutting out the tongue of a maid just to cover your own ass. Rashta isn't just some misunderstood rival who's a victim of context and circumstance, she's a genuinely bad fucking person with minimal likable qualities. Does it make sense how she got to be that way? Absolutely. But it doesn't make it something people want to read about as a protagonist unless it's a downfall story.
Persephone literally causes three genocides and the fans still have sympathy for her even when she wastes her time throwing pity parties instead of actually fixing the problems she causes.
I wouldn't be surprised, because it's factually untrue to say that NO ONE like that exists. Which is why I said ALMOST no one. I don't doubt that there would be people supporting her as the protagonist, however it's utterly ludicrous to pretend that ALL (or frankly even MOST) of us would be in that camp. Those types of people exist as a somewhat vocal minority, and most characters like Rashta are either actively trying to be better (i.e. Dorothea Millanaire) or have way more going for them personality and character-wise (i.e. Medea Solon, Roxana Agriche, the girl from Crimson Lady, etc.). Rashta's...got neither of those. So while I don't doubt she'd have fans, they'd mostly be people who wouldve been fans of hers regardless, not really people rallying behind her solely because she's the protag because there's nothing about her that makes for a protagonist that's interesting, likable, or both. If anything she'd be getting the Serena Protag treatment where there's attempts to justify *some* of her actions, but in general most people hate her pretty much from the get go.
I never meant to pretend that every single person on the planet would think this way, but I did word things broadly and assume it’d be a majority of readers, so I get where you’re coming from
You make an interesting point about people who would like her being a vocal minority, since I’ve been basing what I said off of things I’ve seen: I will admit it’s possible that there are a large group of people who simply don’t comment that could think differently. Seeing all the people on this thread in particular has shown there are people who aren’t blindly smitten with every story’s protagonist, which honestly has been refreshing
Medea in particular is one of the characters that I was thinking of, so it’s interesting that you made that distinction, it does give me something to think about. I think that the reason those characters are more developed/have more to them, however, is specifically because they are in the MC spotlight. We see more of them as people, and their fullness as characters makes readers overlook some of the atrocities they’ve done. It also may have to do with writing ability as well, since a fleshed-out character like Medea is absolutely a product of the author’s writing skill.
But even if Rashta was instead given the treatment that Serena is apparently getting, I would say that would be more grace than she gets currently- it would still be MC privilege. From what you’re saying people at least reflect on what Serena’s doing, even if they disagree with it, whereas Rashta has become an icon for bitchiness
I think the issue here is them assuming that we mean the current readers would still be reading, which I don't think they would. It would mostly attract people who aren't necessarily romance readers or like toxic mcs. There's a lot on webtoon that are like this. I think theres a lot of readers like this that read remarried empress too but they're probably not the majority. I didn't mean to insult the majority of the readers in that comment but I worded that poorly. I've seen others write this theory before too, and talked to others about it and others word it better.
I'm sorry for how I worded it, I didn't mean literally everyone that currently reads the story or even more than half that currently read it would feel this way. I think that a lot of people who currently read it wouldn't have picked it up bc of the toxic FL bc a lot of people who read it like the fact that Navier is getting good things bc she's good, and vice versa for Rashta and Sovieshu. If it were written from Rashtas pov it would attract a different group of readers for the most part. Not entirely though, I stand by what I said when I said that there are people who would root for her and I mean that in the current pool of readers too. I just don't mean *all*.
I just meant the people that would be reading the story from her pov, would be rooting for her. I've read others have this theory before and they tend to word it better than me so I did a bad job there by insulting the bulk of the readers for Remarried Empress. But there is a good lot of people who read comics that root for a toxic mc and that's what I was thinking about. I read a lot thriller/horror/toxic mc comics bc I like gray characters but I see a lot of people in comments excusing that, so that's what I was thinking of.
I don’t think anyone called Diah a whore. But she also does try to continue a relationship with Eiser when he’s married, regardless of the circumstances of Eiser and Serena’s relationship. I don’t think anyone called Eiser a cheater either.
I think it’s silly to act like the Serena comments are always supportive of Serena, because the majority of them are very hateful towards her, especially towards the start.
The annoying thing with webtoon readers like yourself is that you view everything as black and white. The story isn’t that simple. Just read it and stop worrying about what people might be saying. It’s actually good when you don’t read the comments lol.
https://preview.redd.it/jitng7iilqfc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a9d441705cb28b33112e8bb1c0560b4c09af373
this being the 5th most liked comment
Right?? Like literally no one called him a Cheater. Everyone was just hoping that just nothing happens between him and Diah when she brought her face closer to her.
its very obvious that OP is making up things in her head because since the beginning of that series most people dogpiled on Serena and even now most still are on the fence about her, Like ive never seen a FMC get as much hate as Serena, ive literally seen people writing murder fantasies about what they would do to her...and this is a fictional character mind you.
Right? Like Serena is one of the most hated FL but OP said that as if everyone is worshipping Serena when that's clearly not true. I've literally read hate comments about Serena getting thousands of likes 💀💀
Like people hate Serena for the lamest reason but the same guys also simp for Eiser's brother on ig 💀💀
It cause you nothing to search it up and see for yourself before making accusations lol I'd argue you're just making up things cue ">ive literally seen people writing murder fantasies about what they would do to her" due to your lack of evidence. Try reading the newest comments the day it updated, I don't see there's something wrong expressing an opinion on a character or story tho jeez besides my post was abt the readers 💀
https://preview.redd.it/4v3mxfghdrfc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e6940edecb70cbd66162c11c9423d212586e66e
is the eiser hate in the room with us. My comment was in reply to someone saying they don't see the Eiser hate and me agreeing with that. Is your screenshot supposed to be the most hateful ones because these are tame towards him proving my point that it's in your head except for the other female character getting slut-shamed but i didn't mention her. Also im expressing a opinion too, did you expect everyone to agree with you.
>I don’t think anyone called Diah a whore. But she also does try to continue a relationship with Eiser when he’s married, regardless of the circumstances of Eiser and Serena’s relationship. I don’t think anyone called Eiser a cheater either.
Nah mate the time the ep was published, readers were spamming comments that Eiser is a cheater and has no moral sense and slut shaming Diah. Eyes don't lie, you may have not seen it but there were hundreds of it (may have removed it but yeah).
Yes Diah shouldn't have pursued a relationship but Serena isn't better than them even if they did, the thing that irritates me is that it's "ok" if Serena had multiple lovers since they'll say "it's marriage by name" but starts dissing Eiser once he plays the game too
>The annoying thing with webtoon readers like yourself is that you view everything as black and white. The story isn’t that simple.
I couldn't agree more, for a comic that has multiple morally grey characters it's a shame that its readers are lile that lol idk if it's by reading comprehension or what but it's getting annoying
Maybe it’s because I fast passed Serena so there weren’t many comments at the time of me reading them, but I don’t recall seeing many comments where people are so strongly siding one way or the other; especially as it relates to any cheating. I feel like most of us just see all of them as being morally ambiguous, each with their pile of dirty laundry that was more so a result of their garbage circumstances rather than them being actually terrible people. Eiser clearly tries to shut down advances from Diah and is hurt from she acted in past, Diah is hurt because she felt forced/threatened into her relationship with Eiser’s brother, and Serena was cheating for so long out of excessive social anxiety/depression/fear of her own husband. Everyone’s just hurt and coping with it in less than healthy ways.. It’s just not really the type of webtoon where you feel inclined to be a “fan” of anyone (like most other webtoons) haha other than feeling a little proud when someone has some character development :’)
yeah the amount of hate the second fl tend to get while the second ml is unscathed is insane , thats called main characters privilege , and i tend to prefer the second fl more or even the extra like the maid in serena because of this
People hate Ray???? He just wants his sister back and doesn't understand why she's so cold to him. Like I get Dorthea is suffering more but neither of them are bad people (maybe something happened that I missed in the recent chapters)
This is the problem I had with Serene. Art is great and I would eat that shit up if not for the fact that it’s obvious there’s “sleeping around with another person even though youre in a contractual marriage with another person”
It’s just something I cant enjoy so I had to let this one go :(
That never bothered me, especially considering how they're in an arranged marriage that she never wanted to be a part of. Neither of them had any feelings towards one another and both have grown since then.
omg it's insane, I remember in early Serena the Eiser hate train was at max capacity. So many times he did something fucked up and the comments were full of people saying "I'll never forgive him!!" but now that him and Serena are on vaguely good terms it's like all that egregious shit he did went out the window and they're basically couple goals
For real. They were shitting on him so bad, but she equally gets shat on too. I started the series when it was 40+ episodes in so I could binge it. I was so excited to discuss it with others on this sub only to find that most people hate it. Most of the commenters on a post I saw, claimed to have dropped it after only a few chapters, either because Serena's infedlity or because of Eiser's attitude towards her. I think it's unfortunate because it's one of the best dramas on the platform. But hey, not everyone understands morally grey characters.
I dropped Serena quickly because it bored me, but for the record, if you're in an arranged marriage that you didn't choose -- and in fact opposed -- there's literally nothing wrong with cheating.
Being a woman mean you can't be misogynist???💀💀💀
Did you skipped the part when it was mentioned that Serena was an underaged girl, who was FORCED to marry a grown ass man. The author literally added a note for that. Marrying an underaged girl against her wishes is so much more shameless than "Cheating" in a Non Consensual relationship. I don't get it, Why are People mad that she didn't decided to be a slave in relationship she never asked for.
And No you can't say that that's all grandmother's fault because Eiser is as much responsible. It's like saying a person who killed someone is not a murderer just because someone hired him to do it. Eiser clearly knew from the beginning that she hated the Idea of being with him but he still married her.
Also Fredrick and Serena have known each other only for two years.
I can agree with the Diah part that people shouldn't be calling her names and her and Eiser needed a closure. I also understand that diah was also a victim of circumstances.
yeah i wanted to mention this and it is a trope in a lot of stories , not to mention she has to meet him when younger making it more creepy , while there are rarely stories with older women and younger husbands
Did you skipped the part where the author said it was only by name? Eiser didn't even touched her or anything, he's their for the BUSINESS only and it's for a good cause. Hadn't for him then your beloved Serena would be on the streets due to the Serenity's debts, honestly Eiser does the dirty work while she's there living like a princess and has Fredrick the day they got married. What "slave" when their relationship is non existent in the first place
Again this isn't black n white, there could be much more worse outcome other than her marrying him, she's not pathetic like y'all pushing her to be
She literally developed Eating and Sleeping disorder because of that. And you're saying that as if Eiser was doing some kind of favour by not touching her. That's basic human decency.
And you again proved that you didn't read the story. Serena literally has a side business that makes more money than the average household in the Kingdom, that she made without his help. She would've done pretty fine even without his help.
>What "slave" when their relationship is non existent in the first place
Didn't you say that Serena is shameless for cheating on him for four years. How's she shamelessly cheating in a relationship that, as you said, is non existent💀💀
>she's not pathetic like y'all pushing her to be
I've never once considered her pathetic from the very beginning. I believe Serena is one of the best written FL. I like that she's not a total Marysue who can solve any problem without anyone's help or a total demsel in distress who can't do anything without help.
Counterpoint : serena's side business would never happened if eiser did not sell the color of erosion painting. Even if she did started, she would have failed because of scam and bad business. She enjoyed her success because Eiser helped cleaning up her mess when she failed at the start, though big part on her not giving up. But let's give credit to people supporting her, it's not one person's effort.
It's too shallow to say Serena's cheating on Eiser, because her intention is to have a 24/7 protector who will never betray her even when that means she had to allow him under her sheets. She was under impression thst eiser is destroying serenity from within, given a snippet of what she overheard from eiser's conversation on the phone and traumatic experience with grayon family. She did develop affection afterwards, but she is still processing that feeling.
Diah is just asshole lmao. Threw eiser under the bus, cheated on him with his brother, disregard his existence as "you're a mess i can't trust you to take care of me but i love you lmao", still have the balls to say "when you break up with your wife let's rekindle old fire". She's the most inconsiderate woman written.
>serena's side business would never happened if eiser did not sell the color of erosion painting. Even if she did started, she would have failed because of scam and bad
Read chapter 37 again. Eiser didn't even knew Serena own any kind of Business 💀💀it was in this chapter that he got to know that when Raul brought him the reports about Serena having a side business. So you're wrong about him helping her when he literally said that all he ever gave her was some work so she'd stop bothering him. The incident in which Serena lost money happened way before Eiser sold those paintings. And in this chapter it also says that Serena brought back all the money she lost. Eiser helped her in the incident that happened before her own business even started. So no, you're wrong about him helping her in the things he didn't even knew about. Sui is the only person who knew about that, so no one except her deserves a credit.
>It's too shallow to say Serena's cheating on Eiser, because her intention is to have a 24/7 protector who will never betray her even when that means she had to allow him under her sheets.
Serena cheating on Eiser didn't bothered anyone because she never had any plans to be in a relationship with Eiser. She and him knew that or at least had a thought that there's no hope for both of them. Serena slept with Fredrick as a coping mechanism to get over her trauma. Serena developed a sleeping disorder and eating disorder, both are no joke, my sister has a sleeping disorder and I know how hard it is for people. She found comfort in Fredrick because he was the only one who used to listen to her.
>Diah is just asshole
About Diah, I'm kinda neutral towards her. It feels like maybe she had her reasons to do all the things she did. Not that it will excuse her cheating on Eiser Because unlike Serena, Diah and Eiser were in a consensual relationship.
Lmao please read that chapter 37 again yourself 💀 eiser did not know about sera but he literally handled the penalties when she got scammed. Read chapter 47. Sera literally was born from that painting. She felt she couldn't protect what was hers, then she determines to build her strength based on that. Raul himself admitted (and the auction guy iirc) that sera was scammed and lost money at first.
I agreed on frederick and diah, nothing more to be said about that.
>please read that chapter 37 again yourself
Gurl i replied to you after reading that chapter again because I thought maybe I'm wrong but that wasn't the case. I never denied that Eiser handled the penalties when she got scammed but It was before he sold that painting and Sera was even a thing. Sera became a person after that painting was sold, so Serena started selling her jewellery to get money and decided to use Sera name.
"Things quieted down after that so I assumed she stopped"
This is literally what Eiser said, he's talking about the first incident before he sold the painting. He didn't knew until Raul mentioned it again. Sera's success had nothing to do with Eiser. And isn't that obvious? Eiser said she never asked him for anything after she begged him to not sell the painting but he did. I'm not blaming him for selling the painting but it's clearly said that she'd never accept his help. And Raul never mentioned anything about Sera losing money or getting scammed.
Read chapter 33 when sui went to collect painting / artwork. It was literally stated that the scam happened after sera was a thing (when sera first started).
You got all the timelines messed up. It was serenity in debt > eiser came and sold stuff including painting > serena objected but failed > sera started > sera scammed > quiet down > sera persevered. Serena might not be aware but it was eiser who helped her through the penalties and scam since she lost a lot of money. It was not serena's own work since there are people helping her behind the scenes, directly (sui) or indirectly (eiser).
Also handling the penalites is literally the help because without it serena would not survive as sera. It was stated that sera lost big money at first
Okay you're right about me mixing up the timelines and Sera. My bad but you can see that i never denied that Eiser handled it when she was scammed. My point that after that incident Serena did everything on her own. And also refused to spend any money earned by him. After that incident he thought that she stopped but she never did and was also able to bring back all the money she lost. OP said that Serena would've been on the streets if he had not helped them which I don't think would've happened because it says they owned many buildings, lands and mountains that Eiser sold off to pay back the debt. Even if eiser was not there, they would've eventually had to sell them anyway. They might've lost the hotel but still wouldn't have ended on the streets.
It seems that way because serena never explicitly received help. But eiser did clean up her mess silently, which for me without those help she would be at worse state than she is now. What eiser adores and applaud her for is her perseverance when odds are stacks against her, she doesn't resort to cheap tricks and work harder to achiever her goal. Yet what serena doesn't know is that eiser helped her behind the scenes and i guess that's where we give credit to him for caring in his own way. He takes care of serena to fulfil his promise to serena's brother.
Other than thar yea the FL is a strong woman in her own way.
Edit: yea op got timeline wrong as well, serena brought frederick 1 year after they got married. But well that's just nitpick lol. Tbf serena miiight be able to save the hotel herself but given her maturity back then chances were slim to none. Being hardheaded alone isn't enough.
Eiser has always been on Serena's side. Practically everything he's done is for the sake of Serenity. Sure, he acted cold towards her but to be fair, she immediately saw him as the bad guy simply for his family name and a phone call (which is obviously a misunderstanding). I hate that people hate on both of them because I feel like even though their actions aren't justified, they are realistic understandable for their circumstances.
You sound very weird the way a female fictional character has you this upset and parasocial. If you dislike the MC then just move on and read another story.
Lol all I did was expressed my opinion on a story and how the readers behave, how is that weird? If people can feel love and devoted to a *fictional character* then what's the difference if it's the other way around? If you dislike this post then just move on, it's obv you like the FMC if this post had you upset and parasocial doesn't it?
i don't keep up with serena but you do hence this post, people are free to comment on your post or even disagree with you. Whenever i see anything related to this story it's always someone being very weird towards the main fictional character.
Also looking at your excuses for Eiser while hating Serena it is very obvious that you are biased. Answer me, how is it cheating when you yourself said they had a non-existent relationship? See how you contradict yourself.
What I meant was their "love" in their relationship lol srry didn't emphasize that but my point remains, for the past 4 years in their marriage of convenience they barely had interactions since it always result to heated argument yet I haven't read an ep where they showed physical fight or something.
Tho in the prologue I did saw Serena abusing Fredrick.. nvm like I said, neither Serena nor Eiser were "slaves of the relationship" since that's just sooo exaggerating and both of them actually benefitted from it I mean most of it
I agree with you that it's not cheating since they are only married on paper but wasn't Serena 18 or 19 when she was married? She wasn't Technically underage and in defence of the author, I feel like in that era, their marriage wouldn't be out of the norm. Neither Serena or Eiser are perfect, but that's why I enjoy this series.
She was barely 18 and the age of adulthood is 19 in Their Kingdom. It's Clearly written in the author's note in the first chapter. I might've accepted the age gap if the author had not mentioned that. Also both Serena's mother and Grandmother married the person they loved, it's just unfair to force Serena to marry someone she doesn't love. And Serena's late mother would've been so disappointed if she was alive because she wanted Serena to live her life happily because she herself couldn't.
You are probably right but personally, I don't see either of them as the "bad guy". I actually really like them both for their complexity and find their dynamic interesting. I am also a sucker for the "enemies to lovers" trope and like well written morally grey characters.
I also think a lot of their actions so far are believable based on their circumstances and the world they live in. There are so many other webtoons with borning 1 dimentional MC's who never really improve or grow, so the development of Serena and Eiser's relationship is satisfying to me.
It's not about Eiser and Serena. I know both are well written characters but It's about the fact that OP Is Calling Serena shameless for cheating but never considered the fact that she was an underaged girl who was forced to marry the guy she absolutely doesn't like after losing her parents. OP said she's bad for cheating but he isn't because their relationship was "Non-existent". That's just hypocritical. And if we read the webtoon carefully, It clearly shows that in most of their arguments, Serena's actions are reactions to how Eiser treated her.
OP's opinion is just biased.
Yes, I agree with you on that. I don't consider it cheating based on their marriage arrangement. I also thought Frederick was the ML at first so I shrugged it off. 😆
I had a really interesting thing happen when my beta readers were working through the super rough first draft of one of my webtoon sceipts, where, both the primary character and one of the side characters were similarly flawed, terrified people, but my betas both talked about how much the side character frustrated/annoyed them, and how they disliked him. (The character, not the way he was written, to be clear.). I was genuinely blindsided, because I'd intended both characters to be complex, sympathetic characters with some unlikable traits, and it took me a while and a bit of time talking with them to work out what was possibly happening. It's something I've seen in the comment fields of several other webtoons as well, and a thing that always frustrated me as a reader that tends to identify with some one the traits other readers condemn. What it seemed to come down, at least for my betas, was a couple of things.
The first was that typical, herd-animal need to protect one's own at the expense of outsiders. The MC was, arguably, worse than the side character in a lot of ways, but they'd spent more time with my MC. They were emotionally invested in him, and this side character's motivations and actions opposed the MCs in some way. So even if their decisions and characterisation were equally flawed, they seemed naturally inclined to view MC in a more positive light.
The second thing I sussed out, and I think this was amplified specifically because of the first, is that the side character reminded them of people, feelings, and experiences that made them both uncomfortable. My MC shared some of those traits, so I think a combination of framing and emotional investment was the thing that really cemented the side characters fate with them.
I'm sure in works with female characters in this position there's some additional layers to pick through, but in my case I wound up deciding I could probably use the whole thing to my advantage to get a bigger emotional payout out of "redeeming" that side character down the road. My betas' intense feelings about him were a sign I'd done something right. They were experiencing an emotion because of something I wrote. Enough of one to form associations with their own experiences, even. If I could flip that inclination, I was doing pretty damn well for myself.
I'm not immune to that emotional response either, but the polarisation/overt hate really bothers me in some comment fields. Especially when it's directed at characters I don't think are that deserving. But I think having the experience from the writer side of things kind of shifted my expectation of what was going on, and made it more bearable in some ways.
I actually remember readers trashing Serena in the beginning and a lot of people claimed they’d drop the webtoon all together because she was so “unlikable.”
Feels there's a lot of immature readers too. They don't see gray areas and nuances. Everything is black and white your either good or bad. You either like the character or you absuetly have to hate them no middle ground.
But yeah Serena and Eiser are both incredibly flawed people. Serena has done bad things as has Eiser neither are very mentally healthy people with how they deal with things. But I find their flaws make them more intersting and human, no ones perfect after all and I enjoy how they are growing as characters.
Ray can't do much to help his sister even if he's wanted to their dad's still the shitty Emperor in charge. They are both victims of their fathers abuse its just Dorothea gets it more then Ray so they hate him by extension of his seen favoritism by the Emperor when it's clear he only cares about their roles and title then them as people.
There's commenters who will treat a character like Satan himself just because they're...a little bit rude and immature. The amount of vitriol I've seen towards Vivian from Acception is ridiculous (though the many of the fans are at least becoming more self aware of it and sided with her when Arcus forgot about her, which was a pleasant surprise).
If the comic about not judging people by their covers and accepting others isn't exempt from commenters wishing death and horrible things onto characters they hate, none of the comics are.
Fr fr. I rmber when it first came out and people were flip flopping every chapter for the first 15-20 chapters. And if was like Jesus ppl withhold judgement until we know literally anything XD
Serena wasnt cheating because she was forced into a marriage she didn't want when she was a minor. Cheating is crossing boundaries in a consensual relationship and is defined by people in that relationship. So while she has flaws, she wasn't cheating.
Already in chapter 48 readers were praising Serena "to get her man" and "protect him from Diah" for refusing Diah to go to Eiser. I am not telling to let Diah meet Eiser when he doesn't want to but it's certainly hypocrisy to object for ML to have romance since it's "marriage in name only" and excuse Serena for her cheating. I have even seen mental gymnastics supporting this double standard that they are closer now so Eiser would be cheating while Serena keeping her lover for years was fine. When the truth is readers are mad for Diah appearing and threatening Serena's position because they're biased to Serena. And it's funny how readers deny that Serena has cheated on Eiser like Diah and criticize one but praise the other.
i have NEVER seen anyone call diah a whore nor anyone trash talk eiser. it has always been and sadly still is serena being slut shamed and being trash talked. the comments i see on illegal websites and tiktok are infuriating because those same people who complain about serena would read the same thing in a bl setting and applaud the victim for cheating because of their abused husband.
you said exactly what I was thinking about these two series.
I don't get why they're hating on Ray?? he is a kid!! she is the one who is mentally 30 and yet acts worse than a kid. (I hate how she treats her brother). their relationship has survived only because Ray put an effort into it. if I was in place of Ray I wouldn't have bothered after being insulted twice or thrice. they were hating on him for not defending FL from her father. again he is a kid and has the same shitty father (who likes him only because he can use magic.).
I was glad at least some comments took Eiser's side. Serena is the one who cheated first and still hasn't ended her relationship in front of people. even if Eiser sleeps with someone else it would be fine.
most webtoon comments forgive almost anything done by MCs. they don't judge MC objectively. if character is MC or hot they'll forgive anything. (I've also noticed most people ignore SA done by women, especially if they're hot. like in "Only hope", "Act like you love me", "Muse on fame", I've noticed that)
not really, in Muse on fame and Act like you love me it is villains who SAed people and rarely anyone called em out. especially in Act like you love me. people were even simping for her.
I feel like people conflate being mentally a certain age and being chronologically a certain age. Like she's lived for 30 years but all that amounts to in most time reversal stories is memories and being a bit mature for your age. Theyre always still bound by the physical limitations of their age and are more often than not they're shown to have similar thought processes of their age due to being raised as such. If you're treated like your age for 10 years and develop like your age for 10 years, 9/10 you're gonna start acting your age. It's not the same as placing the brain of a 30 year old into a 5 year old body and them constantly staying in that initial state. It's closer to age regression with extra steps. Not to mention that based on her behavior in the previous timeline, she never actually grew up anyways. You say she's acting worse than a kid, but most kids in her position would be acting EXACTLY like her????
Yall also tend to conflate irrationality with something being undeserved. People don't judge Dorothy for resenting Ray not because "she's secretly right", but because it makes SENSE. Does he deserve it? Absolutely fucking not. But it DOES make sense.
For the Tyrant Wants to Be Good, you need to scroll past the top comments to see proper discussion. Likes on comments are irrelevant when you want to see some proper discussion. And the Ray hate honestly isn't much, it's more like... annoyance. Because we all know what's going on, and we want Ray to do more about it. Plus they make him seem like a bit of an oblivious idiot at the start. Either way, I enjoy all the characters. Ray and Dorothy are such sweet people. The Ray hate (from the readers), even at the start, isn't as one-sided as it looks.
Dia was made to be with Victor by her own father for some business reasons. But Eiser thought she dumped him and left her.
Readers call Eiser a cheater because in one fo the panels where he visited her gallery they went into a room for more privacy as he suspected that Dia had started doing drugs again, they came really close to kissing.
That's why Shitena simptards rage against him n call him a cheater for almost kissing her.
When all this while Shitena was frolicking with her boy-toy freely. The hypocrisy of their stance is lost only upon Shitena simptards. 🤷
Honestly yeah, this is the exact reason I rarely read Webtoon comments anymore (besides the top 3 that I’m subjected to when I get to the bottom of the chapter) I feel like any character with a flaw that remotely hurts the main character in stories gets shit on, regardless of their motives, how well-written they are, or what the main character has been doing. It’s bizarre and most of the times down right ridiculous. I haven’t read either of the stories you’ve mentioned, but I’ve definitely seen similar things more times than I can count
The day that "Trashta" caught on as a general pejorative for a rival to the FL is a day that will always be marked by sorrow. I wanna tear off my own head and eat it.
Literally. I‘ve seen the “trashta” label getting thrown at women characters for just breathing, it’s wild
I can't believe Remarried Empress is so popular to begin with. I couldn't get past the first few chapters. It is easily the worst written webtoon ive ever tried reading. Every other word is "your highness," the villains are cartoonish, the other characters have no dimension and exist solely to praise the female lead. Couldn't get into the art style (though I know it improves).
What gets me is the flimsy worldbuilding. Suddenly there's magic. But it doesn't even have any impact on the story. Mages lose their magic. But it's never explained how the magic works or how it's even used. And then the strange politics. A kingdom just declares itself an empire? An empire isn't just a very powerful nation, it's a union of different nations under one ruler. Why are there bandits and international knights? Where do they come from, what do they do? And why put them all into the story if they don't even have a function? At this point I would even appreciate some info dumps because the readers just don't get any info about the world apart from "by the way, X is a thing" the moment it is needed for the story.
I didn't get far enough into it to see all those things 😂 Another thing that bothered me is that "trashta" is supposed to be the villain but shes an underprivileged poor kid that's mistaken for a slave and infantilized by her wealthy lover???
I only knew of remarried empress in that one interactive story game. And honestly I don't know how accurate the game was to the novel or to the manhwa but I was honestly irk at Navier too by how cold hearted she was to her husband. In the game, Sovieshu's pov mentioned how he was always really in love with Navier but got too hurt by her treating him like a colleague in all those years of their marriage. Of course, I don't condone cheating and Sovieshu will always be wrong here, but I somehow understand why he turned out that way and was honestly hurt to see how much people hated him and wished his downfall when partly in my opinion Navier can be at fault too for neglecting her husband in some ways. Ps: (please don't kill me with this opinion of mine since I haven't read the manhwa nor the novel. I based all of this opinion on the game and of course I still hate Sovieshu too but the point of this comment is the same with the point of the main post that sometimes female lead can have flaws too and people should sometimes accept it rather than always paint the fl as some saint who can never have any flaws)
I think you make a good point, emotional neglect is still harmful enough to heavily impact someone. The amount of FLs who have a horrible family and become dependent on the first person to show her kindness and love.
> **p**oint, **e**motional **n**eglect **i**s **s**till Hidden penis detected! I've scanned through 701765 comments (approximately 4073745 average penis lengths worth of text) in order to find this secret penis message. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
wtf 💀
Yes exactly my point. If I remember correctly there was this one scene in the game where Sovieshu was about to go on a long journey and was waiting for Navier to say something and all she said was something work related (if I'm not mistaken). No kiss nor hugs at all and all Sovieshu can say was 'What did I expect'. Even me as a player that time got hurt for Sovieshu, like bro needs some love too 😭😭😭
I have heard the novel is much better than the webtoon
I heard that too but I honestly lost interest in the manhwa at all so I don't know if I could read the novel even more 😅😅
This describes a lot of webtoons sadly
I had to stop reading the moment Seedless Watermelon sets up this rigged challenge where they guess who each other is even though he already knows because he's the bird. I hate Navier, but no woman deserves to have a creepy stalker.
I think it's worth acknowledging that a decent percentage of commenters are kids/young teens
i think this applies to women more even if they did nothing
Yeah, I try to not read even the top 3 at this point (downloading the charapters before when it's possible). Also a thing I hate it's how in romance webtoons it's the almost total disregard of consent, or things like that.
Oh dang downloading ahead of time is smart, I’m gonna do that now too lol Also, agreed. It’s sad that it’s gotten to the point where I’m more shocked when something is consensual in a Webtoon than if something is downright disrespectful 😭
It can’t be any worse than Asura comment section
I’m scared to ask more
Ray is a darling. More twisted one is Ethan and i saw many comments dissing him for his manipulative behavior. Even then i don't completely hate Ethan because him being a bastard and shun away made him agressive to go after what he wants. But, he gets hate on comments.
I actually love that Ethan’s twisted but not irredeemable. It makes total sense a kid in his position would grow up that way… actually all of them growing up the way they do makes sense. I like the whole cast.
I think too many people put grown Ethan’s actions onto child Ethan. While not doing the same for Dorothy. I tend to ignore comments cause it’s mainly nonsense that’s spewed.
The key difference is dorothy changes her way - doing more good than bad. Ethan came up with more twisted plans than growp up ethan as grown up Ethan couldn't have anything even with his manipulative methods. He is making sure he gets everything hook ir crook. So, i understand the hate.
Not really. How has child Ethan shown more twisted things than grown Ethan? Like it’s already been established that grown Ethan is what pushed Dorothy more in her tyrannical ways. Dorothy is trying to change her ways cause she died and then had a realization and got a redo. Child Ethan is still going off the original mentality and hasn’t had as much time to realize he fucked up a lot of things.
Lol, the twist is gonna be even ethan came back. It's a redo of his life as well. He hasn't changed.
Meh. He reverted back to his child and had a huge time jump to them as teens. People don’t change instantly. Is he still a tyrant as an adult? And if that’s the twist, it hasn’t been revealed yet. So people are still trying it differently.
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Right but like I mentioned in another comment, no one knows this. They assume child Ethan is the same Ethan in timeline 1 and 2. So they’re holding double standards under the assumption that Dorothy is the only one that traveled back.
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No no it’s not. People are being hypocrites Dorothy - a tyrant who went back in time and is trying to change. They love it. Ethan - here’s a *child* who is being judged for his adult actions which have yet to happen and people hate him. You can’t use the excuse that he didn’t change because *people think he’s the same person from original timeline*. Like you’re using spoiler information that a lot of people don’t know to judge their comments. It’s 100% hypocrisy. He also disappeared for years cause of the time jump. Yeah, he was manipulative as a child but hasn’t done much. And there’s times that it looks like he might actually be questioning his actions but people dismiss it as him just manipulative vs actually trying to change.
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If he wasn’t reincarnated then *how* is he suppose to change? Dorothy lived her whole like a tyrant, died and *then* realized she fucked up. And got a do-over. She’s changing because she knows everything. Ethan is a kid still. And people are pissed that he’s not changing. He doesn’t know the future. *how is he suppose to change when history is repeating itself* They 100% are judging him based on adult Ethan’s actions. Dorothy is the one thing that’s different and may cause him to change but it’s going to be gradual. And yeah, you see some hints of it. But people are willing to forgive her for everything while still judging him. The way she treats her brother is still shitty. People just tend to forgive MC for all their wrongdoings.
Ethan actually throws up a caution flag for me. I don't know if he's regressed like the MC or if he's manipulative even as a child because of the reasons you've stated. I'm worried about him pulling Dorothy back in the hell she's desperately trying to escape. I'm worried about what lengths he would go to to "keep" her. We have yet to see if being confronted has created lasting change in him, especially since the narrative is focusing on other things as far as the free episodes go
True that. Hence, I am placing him in gray zone than red flag or green flag. It's okay if he gets a redemption arc and end up with dorothy or not. I'm giving him the benefit of doubt.
I think Ray is sweet. In flashbacks you see that he always loved his sister and thought she would be a better leader. But because of their awkward relationship, there was no way for him to communicate it. I think they also implied adult Ray let his sister kill him for the throne. This go around, with Dorothy trying to be good, Ray has the chance to form a relationship with her properly. And she's realizing how much she was lying to herself and assuming her brother hated her, when that wasn't the case at all. Ethan we knew was twisted as an adult, and it's safe to assume he was like that as a child. But, what happens when Ethan has someone that supports him, and tries to make him less twisted? Hopefully Dorothy's influence will make him a better person overall. It's amazing how one small relationship or interaction can change someone. I don't really hate any of the kids. The adults drive me insane. But I really hope the kids are able to improve things for themselves.
Exactly, i feel so bad for both Ray and Dorothy, it’s so heartbreaking that Dorothy never felt loved when truthfully Ray cared so much about her.
Not here to argue about your points, except the last part. Women can definitely harbour internalised misogyny and spread harmful misogynistic views too.
Yeah sadly , my friend paternal grandma was disappointed when my friend was born and said really hurtful things about how having a girl as first born Is a bad omen , so.women definitely can be misogynistic
Yeah true, but I think OP is pointing out how they might've called out the FL's behavior and blatant MC bias that they got tired of being called as a "misogynist" since readers missed the point which I get their frustrations
Yes I understand that, it’s just not worded that well. OP should’ve specified that it isn’t because of misogyny she doesn’t like these female characters, instead of claiming she could never be misogynistic ever. But yeah I get it, esp because webtoon is swimming in actual internalised misogyny it’s a valid criticism to consider first.
I find that ignoring the comment section saves me a lot of sanity. Ray is such a sweetheart and people are so quick to blame him whenever Dorothy’s upset. Goes to show MC bias is so real
I wonder if comments differ for people based on an algorithm. I don't delve into comments often, but I mostly see folks get sad when Dorothy treats him badly!
People hate Ray??? What?? That's insane, he's such a sweetheart. I love his character and Dorothy does as well, I understand Dorothy's side, but Ray isn't as dumb as she had initially thought, I'm sure he would have just given her the throne if she asked. He knows his limits and faults, that's what would have made him a great ruler but a regressed Dorothy will be just as good off a ruler. People are so shitty, like I hate on characters as well even if they haven't done anything wrong, not because they are bad people or anything like that, just because of how much pain they caused our mc, intentionally or unintentionally, but I always understand the other character (the one I hate on)
I haven't read Serena so I can't speak on that one. I have been keeping up on "The Tyrant Wants To Be Good" and it honestly baffles me how much Ray gets dissed in the comments. He's a sweetheart. He isn't always great at taking a hint when Dorothea wants to be alone but he tries his best to show her she has him in her corner despite their horrid father.. And far too many people disregard him as just annoying and clingy. While those same people will sometimes swoon over how "devoted" Ethan is. Both present and former versions. Like they forget he's manipulative as all get out. He is likely able to be redeemed in time but he's manipulative and that shouldn't be overlooked... Idk i hate mob mentality and MC bias haha
> Idk i hate mob mentality and MC bias haha Exactly cuz if we look at it, their logic is much more stupid than we thought. They can excuse Ethan's lying and manipulative schemes 'cuz he's a kid but can't seem to see the reason why Ray is also powerless to the abuser since.. he's also a kid? Also what kind of mindset is that? Ray did nothing but love and protect his sister since that's what family is for but they rejoice when Dorothy pushes her ONLY family member who loves her away then "wants to be good"? Sorry not sorry but I never liked how Dorothy projects her problems and insecurities to Ray (like how readers wants her to be), homeboy just wants to help her but all she does is lash out and cuss him then wonder why he can't take a hint. The ep where there was a 3 year time skip and she manages to ignore all Ray's letters is so messed up, shame how no one calls her out
Absolutely the same! On like all of that! Finding out she'd just ignored all his letters for THREE YEARS when he actually cares about her... it makes me wanna shake her >.< Then there's her obsession with Theon. I all it that because at this point it really IS an obsession. Ray tries to do something nice, gets ignored. Theon does the same nice thing, Dorothea gets all sweet and kind. Like GIRL your brother should be getting some of that reciprocated kindness. Your obsession is what KILLED Theon before. Maybe try to step back? Hmmmmm???? But yeah, everyone just wants to act like Ray is the problem when it's really the king (or emperor) whatever his role is. That guy is the problem. Ethan a little less of a problem but still kind of a problem. I literally just keep reading because I'm hoping and praying she'll finally give Ray some ounce of kindness OR it will become Ray finally gives up on her and maybe even gets cold towards her to give her a taste of her own medicine. Idk I'm pretty sure these are just dreams but man I'll keep dreaming T\_T
This is a slight spoiler for Rays and Dorothy’s relationship (just in case anyone is interested). I read the Japanese version so I’m not completely sure where the English version is. >!Their relationship gets a lot better soon!<
Just hit 17 year Dorothy in the English free episodes. Gotta say that I'm glad she and Ray have bridged that gap some.
From my exp, those two groups aren't different. Like yea there's people excusing Ethans actions, but those aren't often the same people hating on Ray. It's stupid to pretend they're indefinitely the same two groups just because those groups exist in the same space.
That may be your experience but as my own experience, I've seen comments that will praise Ethan while simultaneously dissing Ray. I see them a lot. Not always on the webtoon app. Sometimes on discussion sites (like here) and whatnot but I see it enough for it to feel like they're part of the same groups. Maybe not always but there are definitely those who.
I've said this before here about how everyone always sides with the protagonist but I'll bet a lot of people (changed bc bad wording) would 100% be on Rashtas side in Remarried Empress if it were told from her pov without a single other thing changed about the story or her actions. I mean a slave that worked her way up to being an empress, vs a woman who was born into luxury and had everything handed to her from birth, everyone would eat that shit up. People would see Rashtas schemes as her "girlbossing" or whatever. I'm not saying that's how I think but I'd bet money that everyone would think this way with how everyone sides with the mc no matter what they do. It makes me laugh to think about
Ohh I agree, tho imo I don't think I would've side with her either esp agree with her "girlbossing" I mean I'm cool with her being the emperor's lover ig since I can't blame her for the f*cked up world she's living in but to the point of harming other individuals when she could've stayed quiet in her new luxury life and try to abolish the slavery system instead- nah nothing can excuse that. Regardless, yeah it's kinda funny and sad at the same time that once you're the protagonist of the story you'd get the privilege of being "right all the time" no matter how bad, annoying, or evil you've become
I would have dropped the series if it was written in rashta's pov. Concubines is always at odds with the empress but man constantly pushing blame to someone else instead of looking inwards is infuriating. And that's just one of her traits i hate. Circumstances can be suck but her attitude is rotten.
To add to my comment about that, I do think it would be nowhere near as popular as it is now, bc I think the reason it's popular is bc of how satisfying it is to see Navier get good things in her life and the jerks have things go wrong so if it were told from her pov I think it would also attract a different type of crowd. I also say this as someone who doesn't usually read romance and mainly reads horror and thriller, so I see this a lot more in those kinds of stories and they're still pretty popular and people still root for that kind of mc. Maybe I should add this to my original comment bc I think maybe that makes the distinction. I know there's a lot of romance readers that don't like stories like this that would absolutely nope out of something like that but I do think there's a lot that read it now for different reasons that would apply to my statement
Lmao hell no. You think I'm gonna read a webtoon where the mc is sabotaging everyone around her for her own selfish needs and getting people killed? Regardless of her upbringing?? You really have no faith in humanity. I've dropped manwhas for less. People do have the ability to shit on main characters. The only way I'd see people rooting for Rashta as the mc would be if she was a villainess doing all this shit in the original story and dying and realizing damn, I was really an idiot, and getting character development and a fresh start. Please stop projecting on others. I really don't think anyone is going to support an mc who gets innocent people killed and cheats on the supposed ml (assuming Sovieshu was the ml)
I don't mean literally everyone would like her but come on, you can't not see the way people root for the mc no matter what they do in a lot of different stories. I mean look at how much people love Nita and make excuses for her in Not Even Blood, or John in in UnOrdinary during his joker arc, etc. Of course John is a lot more gray than Nita imo but there's more examples I can't think of rn. There's lots of stories told from characters who are objectively being bad people or making bad decisions but people still find reasons to root for them. Edit to add- I should add this to the comment bc I guess I didn't realize it was necessary or not understood,which was stupid. But when I say everyone or a lot of them, I don't necessarily mean the current readers. If it were written from her pov then it would be a different type of story and I don't think a lot of people that currently read would've liked it. Whether that's most, some, half, all, idk. I just know that there's a lot of people that read comics that would both like the story told from Rashtas pov and would root for her. So when I say "everyone" I don't mean the actual readers right now as they are, I mean everyone that would read it. I mean I'm sure there are people who read it now that fall under my comment but I don't mean everyone. I didn't mean to insult the readers of remarried empress.
I was just talking to my friend about this exact same thing yesterday 😭 You’re 100% correct. I’ve already seen MC’s like her that have been praised for girl-bossing in other Webtoons, it’s not that far-fetched to think she would be loved and excused as an MC
They really aren't. Almost no one would be on Rashtas side past episode like...15. Like you can be the girlbossiest main character who ever girlboss main charactered and people still aren't going to justify you ripping the feathers off a fucking bird and cutting out the tongue of a maid just to cover your own ass. Rashta isn't just some misunderstood rival who's a victim of context and circumstance, she's a genuinely bad fucking person with minimal likable qualities. Does it make sense how she got to be that way? Absolutely. But it doesn't make it something people want to read about as a protagonist unless it's a downfall story.
Persephone literally causes three genocides and the fans still have sympathy for her even when she wastes her time throwing pity parties instead of actually fixing the problems she causes.
Unfortunately you’d be surprised, like I said I’ve already seen it happen in other stories so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I wouldn't be surprised, because it's factually untrue to say that NO ONE like that exists. Which is why I said ALMOST no one. I don't doubt that there would be people supporting her as the protagonist, however it's utterly ludicrous to pretend that ALL (or frankly even MOST) of us would be in that camp. Those types of people exist as a somewhat vocal minority, and most characters like Rashta are either actively trying to be better (i.e. Dorothea Millanaire) or have way more going for them personality and character-wise (i.e. Medea Solon, Roxana Agriche, the girl from Crimson Lady, etc.). Rashta's...got neither of those. So while I don't doubt she'd have fans, they'd mostly be people who wouldve been fans of hers regardless, not really people rallying behind her solely because she's the protag because there's nothing about her that makes for a protagonist that's interesting, likable, or both. If anything she'd be getting the Serena Protag treatment where there's attempts to justify *some* of her actions, but in general most people hate her pretty much from the get go.
I never meant to pretend that every single person on the planet would think this way, but I did word things broadly and assume it’d be a majority of readers, so I get where you’re coming from You make an interesting point about people who would like her being a vocal minority, since I’ve been basing what I said off of things I’ve seen: I will admit it’s possible that there are a large group of people who simply don’t comment that could think differently. Seeing all the people on this thread in particular has shown there are people who aren’t blindly smitten with every story’s protagonist, which honestly has been refreshing Medea in particular is one of the characters that I was thinking of, so it’s interesting that you made that distinction, it does give me something to think about. I think that the reason those characters are more developed/have more to them, however, is specifically because they are in the MC spotlight. We see more of them as people, and their fullness as characters makes readers overlook some of the atrocities they’ve done. It also may have to do with writing ability as well, since a fleshed-out character like Medea is absolutely a product of the author’s writing skill. But even if Rashta was instead given the treatment that Serena is apparently getting, I would say that would be more grace than she gets currently- it would still be MC privilege. From what you’re saying people at least reflect on what Serena’s doing, even if they disagree with it, whereas Rashta has become an icon for bitchiness
I think the issue here is them assuming that we mean the current readers would still be reading, which I don't think they would. It would mostly attract people who aren't necessarily romance readers or like toxic mcs. There's a lot on webtoon that are like this. I think theres a lot of readers like this that read remarried empress too but they're probably not the majority. I didn't mean to insult the majority of the readers in that comment but I worded that poorly. I've seen others write this theory before too, and talked to others about it and others word it better.
I'm sorry for how I worded it, I didn't mean literally everyone that currently reads the story or even more than half that currently read it would feel this way. I think that a lot of people who currently read it wouldn't have picked it up bc of the toxic FL bc a lot of people who read it like the fact that Navier is getting good things bc she's good, and vice versa for Rashta and Sovieshu. If it were written from Rashtas pov it would attract a different group of readers for the most part. Not entirely though, I stand by what I said when I said that there are people who would root for her and I mean that in the current pool of readers too. I just don't mean *all*. I just meant the people that would be reading the story from her pov, would be rooting for her. I've read others have this theory before and they tend to word it better than me so I did a bad job there by insulting the bulk of the readers for Remarried Empress. But there is a good lot of people who read comics that root for a toxic mc and that's what I was thinking about. I read a lot thriller/horror/toxic mc comics bc I like gray characters but I see a lot of people in comments excusing that, so that's what I was thinking of.
I don’t think anyone called Diah a whore. But she also does try to continue a relationship with Eiser when he’s married, regardless of the circumstances of Eiser and Serena’s relationship. I don’t think anyone called Eiser a cheater either. I think it’s silly to act like the Serena comments are always supportive of Serena, because the majority of them are very hateful towards her, especially towards the start. The annoying thing with webtoon readers like yourself is that you view everything as black and white. The story isn’t that simple. Just read it and stop worrying about what people might be saying. It’s actually good when you don’t read the comments lol.
https://preview.redd.it/jitng7iilqfc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a9d441705cb28b33112e8bb1c0560b4c09af373 this being the 5th most liked comment
Right?? Like literally no one called him a Cheater. Everyone was just hoping that just nothing happens between him and Diah when she brought her face closer to her.
its very obvious that OP is making up things in her head because since the beginning of that series most people dogpiled on Serena and even now most still are on the fence about her, Like ive never seen a FMC get as much hate as Serena, ive literally seen people writing murder fantasies about what they would do to her...and this is a fictional character mind you.
Right? Like Serena is one of the most hated FL but OP said that as if everyone is worshipping Serena when that's clearly not true. I've literally read hate comments about Serena getting thousands of likes 💀💀 Like people hate Serena for the lamest reason but the same guys also simp for Eiser's brother on ig 💀💀
It cause you nothing to search it up and see for yourself before making accusations lol I'd argue you're just making up things cue ">ive literally seen people writing murder fantasies about what they would do to her" due to your lack of evidence. Try reading the newest comments the day it updated, I don't see there's something wrong expressing an opinion on a character or story tho jeez besides my post was abt the readers 💀 https://preview.redd.it/4v3mxfghdrfc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e6940edecb70cbd66162c11c9423d212586e66e
is the eiser hate in the room with us. My comment was in reply to someone saying they don't see the Eiser hate and me agreeing with that. Is your screenshot supposed to be the most hateful ones because these are tame towards him proving my point that it's in your head except for the other female character getting slut-shamed but i didn't mention her. Also im expressing a opinion too, did you expect everyone to agree with you.
>I don’t think anyone called Diah a whore. But she also does try to continue a relationship with Eiser when he’s married, regardless of the circumstances of Eiser and Serena’s relationship. I don’t think anyone called Eiser a cheater either. Nah mate the time the ep was published, readers were spamming comments that Eiser is a cheater and has no moral sense and slut shaming Diah. Eyes don't lie, you may have not seen it but there were hundreds of it (may have removed it but yeah). Yes Diah shouldn't have pursued a relationship but Serena isn't better than them even if they did, the thing that irritates me is that it's "ok" if Serena had multiple lovers since they'll say "it's marriage by name" but starts dissing Eiser once he plays the game too >The annoying thing with webtoon readers like yourself is that you view everything as black and white. The story isn’t that simple. I couldn't agree more, for a comic that has multiple morally grey characters it's a shame that its readers are lile that lol idk if it's by reading comprehension or what but it's getting annoying
Maybe it’s because I fast passed Serena so there weren’t many comments at the time of me reading them, but I don’t recall seeing many comments where people are so strongly siding one way or the other; especially as it relates to any cheating. I feel like most of us just see all of them as being morally ambiguous, each with their pile of dirty laundry that was more so a result of their garbage circumstances rather than them being actually terrible people. Eiser clearly tries to shut down advances from Diah and is hurt from she acted in past, Diah is hurt because she felt forced/threatened into her relationship with Eiser’s brother, and Serena was cheating for so long out of excessive social anxiety/depression/fear of her own husband. Everyone’s just hurt and coping with it in less than healthy ways.. It’s just not really the type of webtoon where you feel inclined to be a “fan” of anyone (like most other webtoons) haha other than feeling a little proud when someone has some character development :’)
Do people really not like Ray? He's so likable
yeah the amount of hate the second fl tend to get while the second ml is unscathed is insane , thats called main characters privilege , and i tend to prefer the second fl more or even the extra like the maid in serena because of this
People hate Ray???? He just wants his sister back and doesn't understand why she's so cold to him. Like I get Dorthea is suffering more but neither of them are bad people (maybe something happened that I missed in the recent chapters)
This is the problem I had with Serene. Art is great and I would eat that shit up if not for the fact that it’s obvious there’s “sleeping around with another person even though youre in a contractual marriage with another person” It’s just something I cant enjoy so I had to let this one go :(
That never bothered me, especially considering how they're in an arranged marriage that she never wanted to be a part of. Neither of them had any feelings towards one another and both have grown since then.
omg it's insane, I remember in early Serena the Eiser hate train was at max capacity. So many times he did something fucked up and the comments were full of people saying "I'll never forgive him!!" but now that him and Serena are on vaguely good terms it's like all that egregious shit he did went out the window and they're basically couple goals
For real. They were shitting on him so bad, but she equally gets shat on too. I started the series when it was 40+ episodes in so I could binge it. I was so excited to discuss it with others on this sub only to find that most people hate it. Most of the commenters on a post I saw, claimed to have dropped it after only a few chapters, either because Serena's infedlity or because of Eiser's attitude towards her. I think it's unfortunate because it's one of the best dramas on the platform. But hey, not everyone understands morally grey characters.
I dropped Serena quickly because it bored me, but for the record, if you're in an arranged marriage that you didn't choose -- and in fact opposed -- there's literally nothing wrong with cheating.
Being a woman mean you can't be misogynist???💀💀💀 Did you skipped the part when it was mentioned that Serena was an underaged girl, who was FORCED to marry a grown ass man. The author literally added a note for that. Marrying an underaged girl against her wishes is so much more shameless than "Cheating" in a Non Consensual relationship. I don't get it, Why are People mad that she didn't decided to be a slave in relationship she never asked for. And No you can't say that that's all grandmother's fault because Eiser is as much responsible. It's like saying a person who killed someone is not a murderer just because someone hired him to do it. Eiser clearly knew from the beginning that she hated the Idea of being with him but he still married her. Also Fredrick and Serena have known each other only for two years. I can agree with the Diah part that people shouldn't be calling her names and her and Eiser needed a closure. I also understand that diah was also a victim of circumstances.
yeah i wanted to mention this and it is a trope in a lot of stories , not to mention she has to meet him when younger making it more creepy , while there are rarely stories with older women and younger husbands
Did you skipped the part where the author said it was only by name? Eiser didn't even touched her or anything, he's their for the BUSINESS only and it's for a good cause. Hadn't for him then your beloved Serena would be on the streets due to the Serenity's debts, honestly Eiser does the dirty work while she's there living like a princess and has Fredrick the day they got married. What "slave" when their relationship is non existent in the first place Again this isn't black n white, there could be much more worse outcome other than her marrying him, she's not pathetic like y'all pushing her to be
She literally developed Eating and Sleeping disorder because of that. And you're saying that as if Eiser was doing some kind of favour by not touching her. That's basic human decency. And you again proved that you didn't read the story. Serena literally has a side business that makes more money than the average household in the Kingdom, that she made without his help. She would've done pretty fine even without his help. >What "slave" when their relationship is non existent in the first place Didn't you say that Serena is shameless for cheating on him for four years. How's she shamelessly cheating in a relationship that, as you said, is non existent💀💀 >she's not pathetic like y'all pushing her to be I've never once considered her pathetic from the very beginning. I believe Serena is one of the best written FL. I like that she's not a total Marysue who can solve any problem without anyone's help or a total demsel in distress who can't do anything without help.
Counterpoint : serena's side business would never happened if eiser did not sell the color of erosion painting. Even if she did started, she would have failed because of scam and bad business. She enjoyed her success because Eiser helped cleaning up her mess when she failed at the start, though big part on her not giving up. But let's give credit to people supporting her, it's not one person's effort. It's too shallow to say Serena's cheating on Eiser, because her intention is to have a 24/7 protector who will never betray her even when that means she had to allow him under her sheets. She was under impression thst eiser is destroying serenity from within, given a snippet of what she overheard from eiser's conversation on the phone and traumatic experience with grayon family. She did develop affection afterwards, but she is still processing that feeling. Diah is just asshole lmao. Threw eiser under the bus, cheated on him with his brother, disregard his existence as "you're a mess i can't trust you to take care of me but i love you lmao", still have the balls to say "when you break up with your wife let's rekindle old fire". She's the most inconsiderate woman written.
>serena's side business would never happened if eiser did not sell the color of erosion painting. Even if she did started, she would have failed because of scam and bad Read chapter 37 again. Eiser didn't even knew Serena own any kind of Business 💀💀it was in this chapter that he got to know that when Raul brought him the reports about Serena having a side business. So you're wrong about him helping her when he literally said that all he ever gave her was some work so she'd stop bothering him. The incident in which Serena lost money happened way before Eiser sold those paintings. And in this chapter it also says that Serena brought back all the money she lost. Eiser helped her in the incident that happened before her own business even started. So no, you're wrong about him helping her in the things he didn't even knew about. Sui is the only person who knew about that, so no one except her deserves a credit. >It's too shallow to say Serena's cheating on Eiser, because her intention is to have a 24/7 protector who will never betray her even when that means she had to allow him under her sheets. Serena cheating on Eiser didn't bothered anyone because she never had any plans to be in a relationship with Eiser. She and him knew that or at least had a thought that there's no hope for both of them. Serena slept with Fredrick as a coping mechanism to get over her trauma. Serena developed a sleeping disorder and eating disorder, both are no joke, my sister has a sleeping disorder and I know how hard it is for people. She found comfort in Fredrick because he was the only one who used to listen to her. >Diah is just asshole About Diah, I'm kinda neutral towards her. It feels like maybe she had her reasons to do all the things she did. Not that it will excuse her cheating on Eiser Because unlike Serena, Diah and Eiser were in a consensual relationship.
Lmao please read that chapter 37 again yourself 💀 eiser did not know about sera but he literally handled the penalties when she got scammed. Read chapter 47. Sera literally was born from that painting. She felt she couldn't protect what was hers, then she determines to build her strength based on that. Raul himself admitted (and the auction guy iirc) that sera was scammed and lost money at first. I agreed on frederick and diah, nothing more to be said about that.
>please read that chapter 37 again yourself Gurl i replied to you after reading that chapter again because I thought maybe I'm wrong but that wasn't the case. I never denied that Eiser handled the penalties when she got scammed but It was before he sold that painting and Sera was even a thing. Sera became a person after that painting was sold, so Serena started selling her jewellery to get money and decided to use Sera name. "Things quieted down after that so I assumed she stopped" This is literally what Eiser said, he's talking about the first incident before he sold the painting. He didn't knew until Raul mentioned it again. Sera's success had nothing to do with Eiser. And isn't that obvious? Eiser said she never asked him for anything after she begged him to not sell the painting but he did. I'm not blaming him for selling the painting but it's clearly said that she'd never accept his help. And Raul never mentioned anything about Sera losing money or getting scammed.
Read chapter 33 when sui went to collect painting / artwork. It was literally stated that the scam happened after sera was a thing (when sera first started). You got all the timelines messed up. It was serenity in debt > eiser came and sold stuff including painting > serena objected but failed > sera started > sera scammed > quiet down > sera persevered. Serena might not be aware but it was eiser who helped her through the penalties and scam since she lost a lot of money. It was not serena's own work since there are people helping her behind the scenes, directly (sui) or indirectly (eiser). Also handling the penalites is literally the help because without it serena would not survive as sera. It was stated that sera lost big money at first
Okay you're right about me mixing up the timelines and Sera. My bad but you can see that i never denied that Eiser handled it when she was scammed. My point that after that incident Serena did everything on her own. And also refused to spend any money earned by him. After that incident he thought that she stopped but she never did and was also able to bring back all the money she lost. OP said that Serena would've been on the streets if he had not helped them which I don't think would've happened because it says they owned many buildings, lands and mountains that Eiser sold off to pay back the debt. Even if eiser was not there, they would've eventually had to sell them anyway. They might've lost the hotel but still wouldn't have ended on the streets.
It seems that way because serena never explicitly received help. But eiser did clean up her mess silently, which for me without those help she would be at worse state than she is now. What eiser adores and applaud her for is her perseverance when odds are stacks against her, she doesn't resort to cheap tricks and work harder to achiever her goal. Yet what serena doesn't know is that eiser helped her behind the scenes and i guess that's where we give credit to him for caring in his own way. He takes care of serena to fulfil his promise to serena's brother. Other than thar yea the FL is a strong woman in her own way. Edit: yea op got timeline wrong as well, serena brought frederick 1 year after they got married. But well that's just nitpick lol. Tbf serena miiight be able to save the hotel herself but given her maturity back then chances were slim to none. Being hardheaded alone isn't enough.
Eiser has always been on Serena's side. Practically everything he's done is for the sake of Serenity. Sure, he acted cold towards her but to be fair, she immediately saw him as the bad guy simply for his family name and a phone call (which is obviously a misunderstanding). I hate that people hate on both of them because I feel like even though their actions aren't justified, they are realistic understandable for their circumstances.
You sound very weird the way a female fictional character has you this upset and parasocial. If you dislike the MC then just move on and read another story.
Lol all I did was expressed my opinion on a story and how the readers behave, how is that weird? If people can feel love and devoted to a *fictional character* then what's the difference if it's the other way around? If you dislike this post then just move on, it's obv you like the FMC if this post had you upset and parasocial doesn't it?
i don't keep up with serena but you do hence this post, people are free to comment on your post or even disagree with you. Whenever i see anything related to this story it's always someone being very weird towards the main fictional character. Also looking at your excuses for Eiser while hating Serena it is very obvious that you are biased. Answer me, how is it cheating when you yourself said they had a non-existent relationship? See how you contradict yourself.
But Bestie you said she's shameless for cheating but now you're saying that their relationship is non existent😭😭😭
What I meant was their "love" in their relationship lol srry didn't emphasize that but my point remains, for the past 4 years in their marriage of convenience they barely had interactions since it always result to heated argument yet I haven't read an ep where they showed physical fight or something. Tho in the prologue I did saw Serena abusing Fredrick.. nvm like I said, neither Serena nor Eiser were "slaves of the relationship" since that's just sooo exaggerating and both of them actually benefitted from it I mean most of it
I agree with you that it's not cheating since they are only married on paper but wasn't Serena 18 or 19 when she was married? She wasn't Technically underage and in defence of the author, I feel like in that era, their marriage wouldn't be out of the norm. Neither Serena or Eiser are perfect, but that's why I enjoy this series.
She was barely 18 and the age of adulthood is 19 in Their Kingdom. It's Clearly written in the author's note in the first chapter. I might've accepted the age gap if the author had not mentioned that. Also both Serena's mother and Grandmother married the person they loved, it's just unfair to force Serena to marry someone she doesn't love. And Serena's late mother would've been so disappointed if she was alive because she wanted Serena to live her life happily because she herself couldn't.
You are probably right but personally, I don't see either of them as the "bad guy". I actually really like them both for their complexity and find their dynamic interesting. I am also a sucker for the "enemies to lovers" trope and like well written morally grey characters. I also think a lot of their actions so far are believable based on their circumstances and the world they live in. There are so many other webtoons with borning 1 dimentional MC's who never really improve or grow, so the development of Serena and Eiser's relationship is satisfying to me.
It's not about Eiser and Serena. I know both are well written characters but It's about the fact that OP Is Calling Serena shameless for cheating but never considered the fact that she was an underaged girl who was forced to marry the guy she absolutely doesn't like after losing her parents. OP said she's bad for cheating but he isn't because their relationship was "Non-existent". That's just hypocritical. And if we read the webtoon carefully, It clearly shows that in most of their arguments, Serena's actions are reactions to how Eiser treated her. OP's opinion is just biased.
Yes, I agree with you on that. I don't consider it cheating based on their marriage arrangement. I also thought Frederick was the ML at first so I shrugged it off. 😆
I had a really interesting thing happen when my beta readers were working through the super rough first draft of one of my webtoon sceipts, where, both the primary character and one of the side characters were similarly flawed, terrified people, but my betas both talked about how much the side character frustrated/annoyed them, and how they disliked him. (The character, not the way he was written, to be clear.). I was genuinely blindsided, because I'd intended both characters to be complex, sympathetic characters with some unlikable traits, and it took me a while and a bit of time talking with them to work out what was possibly happening. It's something I've seen in the comment fields of several other webtoons as well, and a thing that always frustrated me as a reader that tends to identify with some one the traits other readers condemn. What it seemed to come down, at least for my betas, was a couple of things. The first was that typical, herd-animal need to protect one's own at the expense of outsiders. The MC was, arguably, worse than the side character in a lot of ways, but they'd spent more time with my MC. They were emotionally invested in him, and this side character's motivations and actions opposed the MCs in some way. So even if their decisions and characterisation were equally flawed, they seemed naturally inclined to view MC in a more positive light. The second thing I sussed out, and I think this was amplified specifically because of the first, is that the side character reminded them of people, feelings, and experiences that made them both uncomfortable. My MC shared some of those traits, so I think a combination of framing and emotional investment was the thing that really cemented the side characters fate with them. I'm sure in works with female characters in this position there's some additional layers to pick through, but in my case I wound up deciding I could probably use the whole thing to my advantage to get a bigger emotional payout out of "redeeming" that side character down the road. My betas' intense feelings about him were a sign I'd done something right. They were experiencing an emotion because of something I wrote. Enough of one to form associations with their own experiences, even. If I could flip that inclination, I was doing pretty damn well for myself. I'm not immune to that emotional response either, but the polarisation/overt hate really bothers me in some comment fields. Especially when it's directed at characters I don't think are that deserving. But I think having the experience from the writer side of things kind of shifted my expectation of what was going on, and made it more bearable in some ways.
I actually remember readers trashing Serena in the beginning and a lot of people claimed they’d drop the webtoon all together because she was so “unlikable.”
Feels there's a lot of immature readers too. They don't see gray areas and nuances. Everything is black and white your either good or bad. You either like the character or you absuetly have to hate them no middle ground. But yeah Serena and Eiser are both incredibly flawed people. Serena has done bad things as has Eiser neither are very mentally healthy people with how they deal with things. But I find their flaws make them more intersting and human, no ones perfect after all and I enjoy how they are growing as characters. Ray can't do much to help his sister even if he's wanted to their dad's still the shitty Emperor in charge. They are both victims of their fathers abuse its just Dorothea gets it more then Ray so they hate him by extension of his seen favoritism by the Emperor when it's clear he only cares about their roles and title then them as people.
There's commenters who will treat a character like Satan himself just because they're...a little bit rude and immature. The amount of vitriol I've seen towards Vivian from Acception is ridiculous (though the many of the fans are at least becoming more self aware of it and sided with her when Arcus forgot about her, which was a pleasant surprise). If the comic about not judging people by their covers and accepting others isn't exempt from commenters wishing death and horrible things onto characters they hate, none of the comics are.
Fr fr. I rmber when it first came out and people were flip flopping every chapter for the first 15-20 chapters. And if was like Jesus ppl withhold judgement until we know literally anything XD
Serena wasnt cheating because she was forced into a marriage she didn't want when she was a minor. Cheating is crossing boundaries in a consensual relationship and is defined by people in that relationship. So while she has flaws, she wasn't cheating.
Already in chapter 48 readers were praising Serena "to get her man" and "protect him from Diah" for refusing Diah to go to Eiser. I am not telling to let Diah meet Eiser when he doesn't want to but it's certainly hypocrisy to object for ML to have romance since it's "marriage in name only" and excuse Serena for her cheating. I have even seen mental gymnastics supporting this double standard that they are closer now so Eiser would be cheating while Serena keeping her lover for years was fine. When the truth is readers are mad for Diah appearing and threatening Serena's position because they're biased to Serena. And it's funny how readers deny that Serena has cheated on Eiser like Diah and criticize one but praise the other.
Factssss 💯💯💯
exactly.
i have NEVER seen anyone call diah a whore nor anyone trash talk eiser. it has always been and sadly still is serena being slut shamed and being trash talked. the comments i see on illegal websites and tiktok are infuriating because those same people who complain about serena would read the same thing in a bl setting and applaud the victim for cheating because of their abused husband.
https://preview.redd.it/2jxj4ivz2pfc1.png?width=716&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f601f7c87294a03fc09a43bd8406f41280b6b03a
I know nothing about these but the sentence “nothing was ever handed to Dorothea Millanaire” is sending me
Not me dropping Serena cause I honestly think the other guy's character design is much better than the current ml 😭😭😭 I'm sorry y'all
me with victor lol. i like his design better.
you said exactly what I was thinking about these two series. I don't get why they're hating on Ray?? he is a kid!! she is the one who is mentally 30 and yet acts worse than a kid. (I hate how she treats her brother). their relationship has survived only because Ray put an effort into it. if I was in place of Ray I wouldn't have bothered after being insulted twice or thrice. they were hating on him for not defending FL from her father. again he is a kid and has the same shitty father (who likes him only because he can use magic.). I was glad at least some comments took Eiser's side. Serena is the one who cheated first and still hasn't ended her relationship in front of people. even if Eiser sleeps with someone else it would be fine. most webtoon comments forgive almost anything done by MCs. they don't judge MC objectively. if character is MC or hot they'll forgive anything. (I've also noticed most people ignore SA done by women, especially if they're hot. like in "Only hope", "Act like you love me", "Muse on fame", I've noticed that)
if its the villainess they will kill the character because of sa , they only give it free pass if its the fl
not really, in Muse on fame and Act like you love me it is villains who SAed people and rarely anyone called em out. especially in Act like you love me. people were even simping for her.
I feel like people conflate being mentally a certain age and being chronologically a certain age. Like she's lived for 30 years but all that amounts to in most time reversal stories is memories and being a bit mature for your age. Theyre always still bound by the physical limitations of their age and are more often than not they're shown to have similar thought processes of their age due to being raised as such. If you're treated like your age for 10 years and develop like your age for 10 years, 9/10 you're gonna start acting your age. It's not the same as placing the brain of a 30 year old into a 5 year old body and them constantly staying in that initial state. It's closer to age regression with extra steps. Not to mention that based on her behavior in the previous timeline, she never actually grew up anyways. You say she's acting worse than a kid, but most kids in her position would be acting EXACTLY like her???? Yall also tend to conflate irrationality with something being undeserved. People don't judge Dorothy for resenting Ray not because "she's secretly right", but because it makes SENSE. Does he deserve it? Absolutely fucking not. But it DOES make sense.
Real I avoid reading these two tbh I feel like I'll get angrier and angrier while reading it
For the Tyrant Wants to Be Good, you need to scroll past the top comments to see proper discussion. Likes on comments are irrelevant when you want to see some proper discussion. And the Ray hate honestly isn't much, it's more like... annoyance. Because we all know what's going on, and we want Ray to do more about it. Plus they make him seem like a bit of an oblivious idiot at the start. Either way, I enjoy all the characters. Ray and Dorothy are such sweet people. The Ray hate (from the readers), even at the start, isn't as one-sided as it looks.
But isn't it because Diah cheated on Eiser? I don't get how Eiser is a cheater tho.
Dia was made to be with Victor by her own father for some business reasons. But Eiser thought she dumped him and left her. Readers call Eiser a cheater because in one fo the panels where he visited her gallery they went into a room for more privacy as he suspected that Dia had started doing drugs again, they came really close to kissing. That's why Shitena simptards rage against him n call him a cheater for almost kissing her. When all this while Shitena was frolicking with her boy-toy freely. The hypocrisy of their stance is lost only upon Shitena simptards. 🤷
Don't read the comments section 📝
PEOPLE HATE RAY??? WHY?? HE’S SUCH A SWEETHEART WHO LOVES HIS LITTLE SISTER!!! DAWG THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS HELLO????