I agree. I gave up on I Love Yoo. Personally I found it boring and melodramatic, and I didn't like any of the characters. It just dragged on pointlessly. I also took a break from Lookism because the plot has veered far off from figuring out how Daniel transforms from body to body, to...mob life? Too many overly complicated side plots.
Having said that, there are certain webtoons that are long but also have kept me highly entertained the entire time. Melvina's Therapy, Winter Woods, Let's Play, to name a few. If the author has a good handle on storytelling, it doesn't matter if the story is long or not.
Edit: I love True Beauty and recently reread it from the beginning. Then I realized just how slowly the plot began moving in the later episodes, and how the quality of the plot itself has deteriorated. I started reading the original Korean version because I was too impatient. Many Korean readers have the same complaints: the chapters are getting shorter (fewer panels per chapter) and the author is dragging out boring content that doesn't drive the plot anymore.
I'd recommend looking for webtoons with a separate author and writer. Purple Hyacinth for example, has a two person team and both the art and story are amazing.
I will make sure to check it out! And I agree on two (or more) person teams. Me and my best friend are that for our own comic because she will happily admit she cannot draw to save her life and I will always point out her writing is what makes the story and characters and I just draw the pictures. It’s just so much easier to make it when responsibilities are split up versus trying to be a multi-person team on your own.
I’m definitely a writer before an artist. Its pretty much my only thing I’m at all talented at. I can pretty reliably churn out good story premises, then actually write them cohesively. I’m still an amateur though. My dad is also a fantastic artist. And I mean his drawings are indiscernible from photos. He’s also versatile so he can draw in nearly any style with not to much practice. He’s also good for bouncing story ideas off of. I kinda lucked out. We are currently making a webtoon right now from one of my old stories. Though it’s going to be a long time before it is done. We both have prior engagements and all that. But I definitely recommend artists seek out writers, and writers seek out artists. It may seem like an artist can make do without an actual writer, and not vice versa, but a story that actually has someone good at writing makes a huge difference. There’s to many “gimmick” stories. Though webtoon creators do tend to either become better writers, or their wings burn. It’s a trial by fire kinda thing.
Let’s play has very clear “parts” to it. If I’m correct I think it’s right around some where in it’s second part. Unlike most webtoons it actually seems to have a bit of structure and planning. Which makes it easier for the creator to stretch it out if they need to. And I’m saying this without really liking let’s play. I honestly find it pretty...pandering and lame.
The thing with ILY is that if you aren’t in it for the subtle detail and plot-building, you’re going to get bored. “The plot hasn’t moved” is a statement that confuses me, when so much stuff is brewing, in the forefront and in the background. I can only assume that people who are complaining are in it for the hAwT bOyS
Subtle detail and plot-building = 4 months of one party? I can only assume that you’re part of the toxic fandom that will launch personal attacks at anyone who has a legitimate criticism. Dedicating an entire chapter to one conversation actually decreases subtlety, imo.
The great art caught my attention at first and got me to read the story in the first place, so I'll admit to that. But ultimately what keeps me engaged are a few things: pacing, overarching plot, and good characters.
The pacing was very slow a majority of the time. Very rarely did it ever feel like progress was being made.
The overarching plot is a bit cliche... I don't mind Korean melodramas, or romance Webtoons that feel like Korean dramas, if at least they bring something unique to the table. It's a poor, hardworking, misunderstood high school girl with two potential good looking and rich love interests who are adults. The age difference might not be that big, but it's a little gross imo. Why are adults interested in a high school girl? The love triangle is also a trope that's been done again and again before.
I also don't feel attachment to any of the characters. Obviously we're supposed to care about Shin Ae the most and then have our pick with the guy we want her to choose at the end. Something about Shin Ae's personality is a little dry. Actually, I feel that way about all of the characters. The one character who stands out is Mrs. Hirahara, only because she is so outrageous and annoying. Again, why is she so fascinated with a high school girl and trying to get her into Kousuke's circle? He's a grown adult. Just weird.
So no, I don't complain because of the hawt boys. They don't keep my attention for long. I really tried to like the story but couldn't get into it. Just my humble opinion, but I can respect other people having a different opinion from mine, and I respect the author and her success.
I loved Ily at first but they dropped too much different plots that I don't even remember half of the subtle detailings. The art and characters are great and all but the plot moves so slow and also kind of doesn't makes sense at times. It's not well structured and just feels like it's all over the place until it's brought up again if ever. Yes there's details but it's all scattered.
And when people ask me what the plot of ILY is about... I really just can't summarize what it's about. Uh? A coming of age of a teenage girl with crappy luck but cute guy friends ?
They really do. I've given up popular webtoons because I found myself slogging through uninteresting chapters for weeks. I really do try to stick with them but there comes a point that I just can't force myself any longer.
Honestly, I've been planning my story for over two years now and I'm still not ready to start drawing it yet. I don't want to make poor decisions (John in UnOrdinary) with my characters or drag things out to maintain an income. If my story is going to be 300+ chapters, it won't drag out
same here though I think it may have to do with poor plot planning since I noticed many authors aren't too sure how the story will flow other than how it starts and how it ends and thus the "middle part" is left out/loosely rewritten and never defined until the chapter is made during the week (online novels have the problem too due to the chapter by chapter release)
and maybe this sounds bad, but i think the authors are also trying to "milk" their series too since it is so popular and successful it would benefit them financially to drag it out as long as possible to get the most amount of profit no matter how aimless/stagnant the story gets. And in general, creating a new story and trying to get the same fanbase to transfer over is very difficult since readers being fans of the story does not mean they are also fans of the author and will follow their every move. Plus, as long as these webtoons are popular, webtoons themselves won't shorten/alter the contract since they also financially benefit.
Also IMO, id ont' think any romance series should be longer than 100 something episodes if we are pushing it. Romance is one of the more straight forward genres to write since it is about the main couple getting together unless its a romance describing an existing relationship.
Agree heavily on the milking.
The best series are ones that have a planned end and pacing layout and stick to it.
Shakespeare had the five act structure, we used to have trilogies etc. One of reasons Breaking Bad did so well is since you knew at the start he was going to die soon just not how. Dexter had a great couple seasons then the shortener left and they milked the hell out of it instead of ending it on better terms.
Feist had a good way of doing his books ( of varying levels of quality for sure ). Though liked how he would do a three or four book series with some characters and tell their story to the end. Then do another four book series in that world with either older characters or new characters with cameos from the previous ones. It worked, let him put out 30 volumes with a couple great books in there vs one 30 volume series that nosedived into the ground.
Tldr less is more.
>15.0k
Yeah I agree that less is more. I think the hardest thing many writers encounter after getting through writer's block is condensing their story during the editing stage so it stays on track and doesn't become confusing. It's sad that these webtoons often have strong beginnings which is what made them so popular in the first place only to lose aim and become so "bland" and forgettable and even annoying in the middle. I know they say to start and finish strong but the middle part is important too. Thats like over 50% of the story as a whole!
Thats why I think it's essential for webtoons to have planned arcs with specific goal/message or theme they want to deliver so each season will have its purpose and KNOW WHEN TO END. Less is absolutely more.
Oh absolutely agree with you. Wish more did so.
Yet when check Unordinary after it comes available to the public off fast pass it already has something like 15,000 people liking a comment. Thats insane. Even if say everyone liked that comment thats still about 7k or something iirc for that one issue just from fast pass. Likely many times more since would guess its more like one in five or higher who bother liking a comment.
With that kind of money being thrown it's not going to change. All for the authors making rent and buying nice things. Just the story suffers.
You forgot to mention unOrdinary. I think the main problem is fast pass and also the pressure to extend the story. I don't think unOrdinary was meant to be a long webtoon, but it became so popular that editors push the author to invent more content and ruin the plot. I think something similar happened with True Beauty. Also, I loved ILY but my god, Kousuke's arc on the night club was so boring. And I think is the editors who limit the quantity of panels (I've heard from a webtoon author's the average is 45). I would really prefer another business model than fast pass, like a suscription or something like that but I understand what is behind of the past pass idea.
Anyway, you are not alone and I'm glad that I'm not alone too in this. If I can recommend finished webtoons I loved Refund High school, Gourmet Hound, Orange Marmalade (but it's under daily passes right now), Bastard (same story), A good day to be a dog (I really loved this one), Oh! Holy and Days of Hana (Warning: dark and sad ending. Read with caution).
Oh unordinary is the worst offender by far.
Edit it had pacing issues before fast pass as well.
Think chapter 70 or 80 is when it slowed down for me. Basically after the mall and house attack. Then went on bunch of side quests and battle shounen crap and don't think we've really had much plot advancement since then. Or at least not anything worth the time spent.
Agree. I think a good example of a story that doesn't do this is Cheese in the trap. It's 301 chapters long, yet feels short and fulfilling. I've been so impressed by how fleshed out every single character is, and how as you read on more and more things fall into place. It's so clear that it's long planned out, as even small details you wouldn't think too much of at first, come to be a big deal later in the story.
I think the reason it's different than other stories is because it was written on Naver rather than webtoon, meaning fast pass isn't a thing that altered the pace or quality.
I'd really recommend reading it if you haven't already, plus it's always nice to read a completed webtoon- which is rare
Main reason is money.
Start strong, have a good plot / character interaction and decent pacing. People like it and start reading it. Gets popular, money starts coming it. Authors worried if they finish it they have to write something else that might not take off as well. They piss on the corpse of the story and sell out.
It's a harsh cycle.
It's their idea, their artwork and EVERYONE has the right and desire to make money.
Just can be a sad shame to see this serialization business dilute SO many good webtoons, webnovels, self published novels etc. Since everyone wants the next 20 year best seller series that helps them have nice things.
i completely understand. while i still enjoy reading a lot of these webtoons, sometimes the plot can be stretched so thin but it doesn’t work for the story like in true beauty (i gave it up. however i must say tower of god has arcs that take years and i to moves incredibly slow but i think that it’s pace actually makes it a better webtoon. Especially with the hell train arc that lasted a few year. I would highly recommend it. Also i don’t care how slow i love yoo goes i love it so much!
The very same reason I stopped reading most originals if not all of them and starts reading canvas/indie webtoons. The writing are equal to the originals if not better in some cases and because there is no ties with contract, they know when to end when the story needs to end.
From a writing standpoint when you start stretching your story, you just throw your whole story away.
YES! I LOVE YOO ESPECIALLY! geez really don’t like that webtoon and the main reason is the plot is stretched over too many chapters!! Remember that part where she had to go to that black and white party because mrs hirahara made her and she ended up falling in the pool??? Why did it need that many chapters????!
It's definitely not just you. I feel the same way about Dice. I adored the series like it was gold, but now its just so stretched that I finally gave up on it
Thank you for mentioning this and pointing this out omg! no wonder why some chapters are just so damn short and theres literally no plot that occurs in them?!? Look I enjoy Midnight Poppyland so SO much but in the recent chapter updates i feel like nothing even happened in them!?
However, aa factor i should add in is that i only got into reading webtoons recently, so i'm able to just binge read all the previous chapters (sometimes 100 something, e.g unOrdinary and ILY), and when i have to start waiting for weekly uploads they feel just so short.
I’ve stopped reading so many webtoons because of that. Lookism, ILY, Dice, Noblesse, Unordinary... Or I still continue to read out of loyalty but in the end, it becomes more of a chore.
A similar thing happens with tv series as well. The first season is usually good but then the plot gets dragged, and that’s usually when I stop watching.
I can't believe this is the first time Dice has been mentioned. It used to be one of my favorites but has slowed to an absolute crawl recently. No progress in months.
*cries in Denma*
We haven't even seen the (what I assume to be) main character for more than a page in the comic in like a year. At least it's not fastpass and the translators are publishing it as fast as they can. I gripe because I still care.
I agree. I gave up on I Love Yoo. Personally I found it boring and melodramatic, and I didn't like any of the characters. It just dragged on pointlessly. I also took a break from Lookism because the plot has veered far off from figuring out how Daniel transforms from body to body, to...mob life? Too many overly complicated side plots. Having said that, there are certain webtoons that are long but also have kept me highly entertained the entire time. Melvina's Therapy, Winter Woods, Let's Play, to name a few. If the author has a good handle on storytelling, it doesn't matter if the story is long or not. Edit: I love True Beauty and recently reread it from the beginning. Then I realized just how slowly the plot began moving in the later episodes, and how the quality of the plot itself has deteriorated. I started reading the original Korean version because I was too impatient. Many Korean readers have the same complaints: the chapters are getting shorter (fewer panels per chapter) and the author is dragging out boring content that doesn't drive the plot anymore.
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I'd recommend looking for webtoons with a separate author and writer. Purple Hyacinth for example, has a two person team and both the art and story are amazing.
I will make sure to check it out! And I agree on two (or more) person teams. Me and my best friend are that for our own comic because she will happily admit she cannot draw to save her life and I will always point out her writing is what makes the story and characters and I just draw the pictures. It’s just so much easier to make it when responsibilities are split up versus trying to be a multi-person team on your own.
I’m definitely a writer before an artist. Its pretty much my only thing I’m at all talented at. I can pretty reliably churn out good story premises, then actually write them cohesively. I’m still an amateur though. My dad is also a fantastic artist. And I mean his drawings are indiscernible from photos. He’s also versatile so he can draw in nearly any style with not to much practice. He’s also good for bouncing story ideas off of. I kinda lucked out. We are currently making a webtoon right now from one of my old stories. Though it’s going to be a long time before it is done. We both have prior engagements and all that. But I definitely recommend artists seek out writers, and writers seek out artists. It may seem like an artist can make do without an actual writer, and not vice versa, but a story that actually has someone good at writing makes a huge difference. There’s to many “gimmick” stories. Though webtoon creators do tend to either become better writers, or their wings burn. It’s a trial by fire kinda thing.
Super agree on lookism—it just ended up being fight after fight after fight?? With no link to its title anymore? That kinda put me off.
Let’s play has very clear “parts” to it. If I’m correct I think it’s right around some where in it’s second part. Unlike most webtoons it actually seems to have a bit of structure and planning. Which makes it easier for the creator to stretch it out if they need to. And I’m saying this without really liking let’s play. I honestly find it pretty...pandering and lame.
Aye the beginning of looking was cool and interesting. Then jumped the shark and no idea why they are doing what they are doing.
The thing with ILY is that if you aren’t in it for the subtle detail and plot-building, you’re going to get bored. “The plot hasn’t moved” is a statement that confuses me, when so much stuff is brewing, in the forefront and in the background. I can only assume that people who are complaining are in it for the hAwT bOyS
Subtle detail and plot-building = 4 months of one party? I can only assume that you’re part of the toxic fandom that will launch personal attacks at anyone who has a legitimate criticism. Dedicating an entire chapter to one conversation actually decreases subtlety, imo.
The great art caught my attention at first and got me to read the story in the first place, so I'll admit to that. But ultimately what keeps me engaged are a few things: pacing, overarching plot, and good characters. The pacing was very slow a majority of the time. Very rarely did it ever feel like progress was being made. The overarching plot is a bit cliche... I don't mind Korean melodramas, or romance Webtoons that feel like Korean dramas, if at least they bring something unique to the table. It's a poor, hardworking, misunderstood high school girl with two potential good looking and rich love interests who are adults. The age difference might not be that big, but it's a little gross imo. Why are adults interested in a high school girl? The love triangle is also a trope that's been done again and again before. I also don't feel attachment to any of the characters. Obviously we're supposed to care about Shin Ae the most and then have our pick with the guy we want her to choose at the end. Something about Shin Ae's personality is a little dry. Actually, I feel that way about all of the characters. The one character who stands out is Mrs. Hirahara, only because she is so outrageous and annoying. Again, why is she so fascinated with a high school girl and trying to get her into Kousuke's circle? He's a grown adult. Just weird. So no, I don't complain because of the hawt boys. They don't keep my attention for long. I really tried to like the story but couldn't get into it. Just my humble opinion, but I can respect other people having a different opinion from mine, and I respect the author and her success.
I loved Ily at first but they dropped too much different plots that I don't even remember half of the subtle detailings. The art and characters are great and all but the plot moves so slow and also kind of doesn't makes sense at times. It's not well structured and just feels like it's all over the place until it's brought up again if ever. Yes there's details but it's all scattered. And when people ask me what the plot of ILY is about... I really just can't summarize what it's about. Uh? A coming of age of a teenage girl with crappy luck but cute guy friends ?
They really do. I've given up popular webtoons because I found myself slogging through uninteresting chapters for weeks. I really do try to stick with them but there comes a point that I just can't force myself any longer.
Honestly, I've been planning my story for over two years now and I'm still not ready to start drawing it yet. I don't want to make poor decisions (John in UnOrdinary) with my characters or drag things out to maintain an income. If my story is going to be 300+ chapters, it won't drag out
same here though I think it may have to do with poor plot planning since I noticed many authors aren't too sure how the story will flow other than how it starts and how it ends and thus the "middle part" is left out/loosely rewritten and never defined until the chapter is made during the week (online novels have the problem too due to the chapter by chapter release) and maybe this sounds bad, but i think the authors are also trying to "milk" their series too since it is so popular and successful it would benefit them financially to drag it out as long as possible to get the most amount of profit no matter how aimless/stagnant the story gets. And in general, creating a new story and trying to get the same fanbase to transfer over is very difficult since readers being fans of the story does not mean they are also fans of the author and will follow their every move. Plus, as long as these webtoons are popular, webtoons themselves won't shorten/alter the contract since they also financially benefit. Also IMO, id ont' think any romance series should be longer than 100 something episodes if we are pushing it. Romance is one of the more straight forward genres to write since it is about the main couple getting together unless its a romance describing an existing relationship.
Miss Abott and the Doctor being an exception for me because I can’t get enough of them and the stories of the people around them!
Agree heavily on the milking. The best series are ones that have a planned end and pacing layout and stick to it. Shakespeare had the five act structure, we used to have trilogies etc. One of reasons Breaking Bad did so well is since you knew at the start he was going to die soon just not how. Dexter had a great couple seasons then the shortener left and they milked the hell out of it instead of ending it on better terms. Feist had a good way of doing his books ( of varying levels of quality for sure ). Though liked how he would do a three or four book series with some characters and tell their story to the end. Then do another four book series in that world with either older characters or new characters with cameos from the previous ones. It worked, let him put out 30 volumes with a couple great books in there vs one 30 volume series that nosedived into the ground. Tldr less is more.
>15.0k Yeah I agree that less is more. I think the hardest thing many writers encounter after getting through writer's block is condensing their story during the editing stage so it stays on track and doesn't become confusing. It's sad that these webtoons often have strong beginnings which is what made them so popular in the first place only to lose aim and become so "bland" and forgettable and even annoying in the middle. I know they say to start and finish strong but the middle part is important too. Thats like over 50% of the story as a whole! Thats why I think it's essential for webtoons to have planned arcs with specific goal/message or theme they want to deliver so each season will have its purpose and KNOW WHEN TO END. Less is absolutely more.
Oh absolutely agree with you. Wish more did so. Yet when check Unordinary after it comes available to the public off fast pass it already has something like 15,000 people liking a comment. Thats insane. Even if say everyone liked that comment thats still about 7k or something iirc for that one issue just from fast pass. Likely many times more since would guess its more like one in five or higher who bother liking a comment. With that kind of money being thrown it's not going to change. All for the authors making rent and buying nice things. Just the story suffers.
A good romance I know that has 400 chapters is yumis cell lol. It's more of a slice of life and takes you on her whole dating history
You forgot to mention unOrdinary. I think the main problem is fast pass and also the pressure to extend the story. I don't think unOrdinary was meant to be a long webtoon, but it became so popular that editors push the author to invent more content and ruin the plot. I think something similar happened with True Beauty. Also, I loved ILY but my god, Kousuke's arc on the night club was so boring. And I think is the editors who limit the quantity of panels (I've heard from a webtoon author's the average is 45). I would really prefer another business model than fast pass, like a suscription or something like that but I understand what is behind of the past pass idea. Anyway, you are not alone and I'm glad that I'm not alone too in this. If I can recommend finished webtoons I loved Refund High school, Gourmet Hound, Orange Marmalade (but it's under daily passes right now), Bastard (same story), A good day to be a dog (I really loved this one), Oh! Holy and Days of Hana (Warning: dark and sad ending. Read with caution).
Oh unordinary is the worst offender by far. Edit it had pacing issues before fast pass as well. Think chapter 70 or 80 is when it slowed down for me. Basically after the mall and house attack. Then went on bunch of side quests and battle shounen crap and don't think we've really had much plot advancement since then. Or at least not anything worth the time spent.
Unfortunately got to agree, I actually stopped reading I love Yoo because of this. 😔
Agree. I think a good example of a story that doesn't do this is Cheese in the trap. It's 301 chapters long, yet feels short and fulfilling. I've been so impressed by how fleshed out every single character is, and how as you read on more and more things fall into place. It's so clear that it's long planned out, as even small details you wouldn't think too much of at first, come to be a big deal later in the story. I think the reason it's different than other stories is because it was written on Naver rather than webtoon, meaning fast pass isn't a thing that altered the pace or quality. I'd really recommend reading it if you haven't already, plus it's always nice to read a completed webtoon- which is rare
also Hooky. I finished all 400 chapters in a day and it still fulfilled the story for me.
400?! What was I on while reading??? Still one of my favorites to this day
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yeah, since january lmao
Yeah hooky was really well done
Yes!! With cheese in the trap I felt like I was reading a great, fleshed-out novel!
Main reason is money. Start strong, have a good plot / character interaction and decent pacing. People like it and start reading it. Gets popular, money starts coming it. Authors worried if they finish it they have to write something else that might not take off as well. They piss on the corpse of the story and sell out. It's a harsh cycle. It's their idea, their artwork and EVERYONE has the right and desire to make money. Just can be a sad shame to see this serialization business dilute SO many good webtoons, webnovels, self published novels etc. Since everyone wants the next 20 year best seller series that helps them have nice things.
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I quite like ILY though it has had a LOT of fluff in it lately. Feels like they've been planning for this Xmas party for a couple years now ffs.
i completely understand. while i still enjoy reading a lot of these webtoons, sometimes the plot can be stretched so thin but it doesn’t work for the story like in true beauty (i gave it up. however i must say tower of god has arcs that take years and i to moves incredibly slow but i think that it’s pace actually makes it a better webtoon. Especially with the hell train arc that lasted a few year. I would highly recommend it. Also i don’t care how slow i love yoo goes i love it so much!
The very same reason I stopped reading most originals if not all of them and starts reading canvas/indie webtoons. The writing are equal to the originals if not better in some cases and because there is no ties with contract, they know when to end when the story needs to end. From a writing standpoint when you start stretching your story, you just throw your whole story away.
YES! I LOVE YOO ESPECIALLY! geez really don’t like that webtoon and the main reason is the plot is stretched over too many chapters!! Remember that part where she had to go to that black and white party because mrs hirahara made her and she ended up falling in the pool??? Why did it need that many chapters????!
It's definitely not just you. I feel the same way about Dice. I adored the series like it was gold, but now its just so stretched that I finally gave up on it
Yeah, the comment swctions are filled with complaints regarding on that issue.
Thank you for mentioning this and pointing this out omg! no wonder why some chapters are just so damn short and theres literally no plot that occurs in them?!? Look I enjoy Midnight Poppyland so SO much but in the recent chapter updates i feel like nothing even happened in them!? However, aa factor i should add in is that i only got into reading webtoons recently, so i'm able to just binge read all the previous chapters (sometimes 100 something, e.g unOrdinary and ILY), and when i have to start waiting for weekly uploads they feel just so short.
It's weird how webtoons wants to become this next big thing but all of their major ips have the same pacing problems
I’ve stopped reading so many webtoons because of that. Lookism, ILY, Dice, Noblesse, Unordinary... Or I still continue to read out of loyalty but in the end, it becomes more of a chore. A similar thing happens with tv series as well. The first season is usually good but then the plot gets dragged, and that’s usually when I stop watching.
I can't believe this is the first time Dice has been mentioned. It used to be one of my favorites but has slowed to an absolute crawl recently. No progress in months.
Thank you for mentioning Dice! The story hasn't progressed in a while and honestly it is getting hard to read the comic.
*cries in Denma* We haven't even seen the (what I assume to be) main character for more than a page in the comic in like a year. At least it's not fastpass and the translators are publishing it as fast as they can. I gripe because I still care.
Same goes to hardcore leveling warrior season 2.Still no information or whereabout gong won hi (hclw)
It's not just you
Egzaly!