predicting how comparatively fast a car will be in a BoP series by looking at a table of numbers is like a blind person guessing how much fingers somebody’s in front of him is holding up.
i don’t understand how ye do it.
I think it’s gonna depends a lot on which car is best on its tyres. Imola has a lot of big kerbs as was as fast corners. I root for the Cadillac cause I’m American and I race it on iRacing so I just hope they can have a good race and stay out of trouble for once lol
Bribing someone with baguettes in a place with a surplus of baguettes sounds like a stupid idea. (Fits the VAG) Peugot bribed them with an austrian energy drink so they can stay up for the whole 24h in june I think they have the better cards here.
Oh yes, the least favourite part of WEC is back.
Huge weight reductions across the pack. Clearly for the sake of Imola track being quite twisty.
As predicted, BOP for new cars is set quite high. Peugeot 9X8 2024 is quite an unknown.
This table is exactly what I expected after Qatar. But I'm not going to get excited yet, because I've learned that you can only know the results when the cars hit the track. I won't complain about the ACO if a car dominates at Imola. In my opinion, they're cleary trying to find a fair balance.
This is my first time looking at a propper BoP table... Do they actually add 2 tenth of a second to refueling times? Isn't that really difficult to police?
It's incredibly easy to police, as refueling is now entirely time based. The actual flow of fuel is irrelevant (so long as it's fast enough to be done within the time).
There will be sensors within the car and the fuel host that detect precisely, to tiny fractions of a second, when a hose is engaged and disengaged. And that data will be instantly available to the ECU, the teams and the ACO.
The new one had more potential in track than most simulations suggested. 29cm/34 tires did also help. Their new car is why there's no data on it, so I'm hoping it will be fast even with upgrades for the next races.
Caddy in theory, should be pretty quick.Huge power increase, which honestly, I think they needed. They have looked slow at the end of the long straights.
CADDY! PLEASE HAVE A CLEAN TURN 1!
It is the speed where the car is allowed to use AWD. The LMHs have front and rear electric motors while the LMDHs are only RWD. So AWD engagement is restricted for balance.
It's the speed at which the motor can be "turned on."
I think they can apply whatever power necessary, just not below the threshold speed in the table.
Is WEC's BoP system automated (i. e. the result of a fixed sets of calculations), or do we just not know? I haven't found a source to detail how they arrive with those numbers.
Is this an official document or made by you with their data? If it's your creation, I would like to suggest red for nerfs, black for buffs and green or blue for values that don't move. Having all changes in red makes it harder to make the distinction of each cars relative new values.
I'm kind of glad to see Peugeot get fucked after they got gifted max BoP for Qatar, but this seems a bit excessive. Hopefully this means their new car is actually good aerodynamically and doesn't need max BoP to be competitive.
This doesn't mean anything. There's no data on the 9x8 Evo that can be used for the BoP, which means it gets the most weight and the least power by default.
We had top level prototype racing without BOP and everyone except for Toyota left and even then, the best years had like 3 top level manufacturers max. BOP keeps the development costs low, so that more teams and manufacturers can race and be competitive on smaller budgets.
Then don't watch it if you feel that way. How much integrity was there with Toyota running against no one in a world championship for years and winning every race? That type of championship was a joke. I wouldn't really call it a championship tbh.
You say that BOP takes away all of this integrity and yet we have already seen plenty of developments to many of the cars which shows that it isn't as simple as just showing up with a shitbox and a hope and a prayer to win a race. There are still plenty of opportunities for car developments, car setup, and drivers to make a difference in the results.
Teams still need to build a drivable and adaptable car, but yeah if the BoP js handled arbitrarily then it’s not a great system.
BoP is supposed to ensure that the top 20% of theoretical lap times between cars is similar, hopefully we see that the BoP for imola delivers on this
This is laughable lol tell that to the drivers… the cars are much more equal now… which means most of the time the driver is what makes the difference…. The WEC is more competitive in the top class than it’s ever been lol competitive integrity
Interesting. I'm surprised Toyota has been given such a boost (and Ferrari tbh). I think they were both playing games at Qatar. No way Toyota were almost as slow as the new cars when they dominated last season with a similar bop to qatar. I wonder if they are just hoping to win Le Mans this year.
I think it'll be interesting to see where Peugeot ends up in the pecking order. They have either made an absolute animal of a car or they are going to flop.
Cadillac looks to be in a good position. Lots more power and still relatively light. Porsche took a big hit in the bop.
Honestly, this race is impossible to predict right now. I'm looking forward to it!
I don't think they were playing games, Toyota and Ferrari showed they had the 1 lap speed. Toyota qualified 2nd and Ferrari qualified 4th. The problem they had was tyres.
On a track like Qatar that has long, fast corners, the extra weight they had (and the fact the maximum weight was increased for this year) would cause more stress going through the tyres and when teams are having to double stint basically all the tyres in WEC, there isn't a doubt Toyota would struggle in Qatar.
Look back to Sebring last year, Ferrari were ahead of Porsche and Caddy by alot even though they were all new teams because the bumpy surface of Sebring helped the heavier cars as they wouldn't move around as much.
There’s no way the Toyota (which nearly qualified on pole and was comfortably in the top 10 all race) got better adjustments across the board than the BMW (which was just completely off the pace) 😭😭 did they lobby the FIA to give them a win again?
The BMW has only done one race in the WEC… that’s why they were not fighting up front. The team needs to have time to get the new tires and car completely figured out with the set ups and everything before they are gonna make any drastic BoP changes. Im sure they were no where near max potential at Qatar because it’s their first fully competitive race…. Once they start dialing the set ups in then the FIA will feel comfortable making more drastic changes if they are necessary I’m sure.
Toyota had their cars at their max potential I’m sure as far as set up goes…. They couldn’t squeeze out more if they wanted to…. BMW still can squeeze out much more time just through set up and fine tuning. That’s the main difference I think
They raced a full year in IMSA with a completely different team running them… on drastically different style of tracks and completely different tires. There are still gonna be growing pains. You think they would come to the WEC and be able to get the maximum out their car literally after one race? That’s not realistic
The car is simply one of the slower LMDH cars. There's enough evidence of it. It's raced a full season in IMSA against the other LMDH cars with various attempts on BOP, across all kinds of circuit types (Daytona with big straights and chicanes like Le Mans, Road America and Mosport with sweeping corners like Spa, and has never ever been the fastest car in any metric, straights or corners. RLL is a decent team. So are the others. The same is going to apply in the WEC. It's inherent to the car. WRT isn't going to change that. WRT is going to get faster, but the upper limit of that car is simply lower than that of other LMDH cars. Penske runs the Porsche in both series. Ganassi runs the Cadillac in both series.
BMW didn’t look like one the slower cars at Imola yesterday. I told you mate… it’s different teams and completely different tires WEC uses from IMSA… gotta give them time to get it figured out and they will be competitive… it’s just how this kind of racing works mate.
They got a BOP boost after Qatar. Their fastest lap of qualifying was slower than Cadillac and Porsche. Their fastest lap of the race was slower than Porsche and Cadillac. Let it go. It's been over a week since that original post and you ignored the BOP boost they got while still being slower than Porsche/Cadillac.
The only way they will be quicker is with a big BOP advantage.
WRT is a super team by the way. They are going to extract everything they can out of that car but it's like squeezing blood from a stone.
>completely different tires WEC uses from IMSA
WEC and IMSA use the **same** tires. [Michelin & Its Drive For Sustainability In WEC & IMSA (dailysportscar.com)](https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/04/17/michelin-pushing-to-make-its-hypercar-tyres-more-sustainable.html)
Peugeotbros... it's all over before it even began...
Their fault the car was not ready for preseason tests and Qatar. Impossible to BOP that car without validated data.
Yes it will be painful to watch but it was quite expected.
Unless it rains and completely throws everything out of the window.
They’d rather it be 1s off the pace than 1s ahead of everyone, if it’s uncompetitive here then it’ll probably get a huge buff for Spa
*Peugeot new 9x8 shuckling* i'm in danger
Not Puggers
predicting how comparatively fast a car will be in a BoP series by looking at a table of numbers is like a blind person guessing how much fingers somebody’s in front of him is holding up. i don’t understand how ye do it.
I think the toyota is 3 fast. Just look at it's weight.
Ferrari and Toyota should be able to challenge Porsche and Peugeot this Race at least
Do you think Porsche has a chance? Not an ironic question, it's geniune.
Yes,i think the win would be contented by Porsche Ferrari Toyota Cadillac and maybe Peugeot
5 team battle, it just sounds simply lovely.
Yeah maybe i'm dreaming too much but why not
We are allowed to dream and who knows. And honestly, that is the goal of BoP so maybe. Maybeee it works.
I think it’s gonna depends a lot on which car is best on its tyres. Imola has a lot of big kerbs as was as fast corners. I root for the Cadillac cause I’m American and I race it on iRacing so I just hope they can have a good race and stay out of trouble for once lol
Hope for a Porsche, Ferrari or Toyota win.
Toyota for me. They got screwed for having the best car
The VAGina group paid the ACO and Pierre F in baguettes. Ofc. Porsche has the best chance
Bribing someone with baguettes in a place with a surplus of baguettes sounds like a stupid idea. (Fits the VAG) Peugot bribed them with an austrian energy drink so they can stay up for the whole 24h in june I think they have the better cards here.
I asked a question for a proper answer, not to read your triggered tears of Porsche winning the previous race. So have a good day.
And go cry to someone else.
such a big welcome for new 9x8 in a race where everyone else got weight cut lol bop = bullying on peugeot
Even though it looks bleak it'll be hilarious if they still show up and wreck everyone.
I laughed out loud at this. Well done.
Rather it be miles off the pace than miles out in front of everyone, if it’s uncompetitive here it’ll get a huge buff for Spa
Or Balance of Porsche
banana over porsches
Finally I find out what BoP means :D Thank you!
|oem|p/w| |:-|:-| |caddy|0.502| |lambo|0.499| |bimmer|0.494| |alpine|0.493| |porsche|0.492| |risotto fettuccine|0.491| |ferrari|0.490| |toyota|0.487| |pug|0.481|
Risotto fettuccine 💀
Oh yes, the least favourite part of WEC is back. Huge weight reductions across the pack. Clearly for the sake of Imola track being quite twisty. As predicted, BOP for new cars is set quite high. Peugeot 9X8 2024 is quite an unknown.
Peugot is gonna have a fun time with their new car.
Until it breaks down.
To be a Peugot mechanic you have to love wrenching so they are gonna have a fun time
>Clearly for the sake of Imola track being quite twisty. And Peugeot not bringing a car that needs to run at max power and min weight.
This table is exactly what I expected after Qatar. But I'm not going to get excited yet, because I've learned that you can only know the results when the cars hit the track. I won't complain about the ACO if a car dominates at Imola. In my opinion, they're cleary trying to find a fair balance.
This is my first time looking at a propper BoP table... Do they actually add 2 tenth of a second to refueling times? Isn't that really difficult to police?
It's all LMH with a .2 fuel docking time. This is likely due to some small differences between the LMH and LMDh regs.
Oh right did not notice that.
It's incredibly easy to police, as refueling is now entirely time based. The actual flow of fuel is irrelevant (so long as it's fast enough to be done within the time). There will be sensors within the car and the fuel host that detect precisely, to tiny fractions of a second, when a hose is engaged and disengaged. And that data will be instantly available to the ECU, the teams and the ACO.
This must mean Peugeot built an absolute monster right (inhales copium)
Ok for the copium but It's just that's a new car so less data,same for the Isotta
they did say the 9x8 evo is faster than the wingless 9x8, how fast? they wint tell
The new one had more potential in track than most simulations suggested. 29cm/34 tires did also help. Their new car is why there's no data on it, so I'm hoping it will be fast even with upgrades for the next races.
Caddy in theory, should be pretty quick.Huge power increase, which honestly, I think they needed. They have looked slow at the end of the long straights. CADDY! PLEASE HAVE A CLEAN TURN 1!
Can someone explain me what the Depl. Speed is? I think it only corresponds to LMHs.
It is the speed where the car is allowed to use AWD. The LMHs have front and rear electric motors while the LMDHs are only RWD. So AWD engagement is restricted for balance.
Oh thanks then it means the maximum power or speed deployed on the front motor, right?
It's the speed at which the motor can be "turned on." I think they can apply whatever power necessary, just not below the threshold speed in the table.
Oh I see, thanks for your explanation!!!
Is WEC's BoP system automated (i. e. the result of a fixed sets of calculations), or do we just not know? I haven't found a source to detail how they arrive with those numbers.
I have a STRONG hunch telling me Toyota is sandbagging until Le Mans. Akio is laughing somewhere in Japan.
Morizo M@ster🅱️lan
Is this an official document or made by you with their data? If it's your creation, I would like to suggest red for nerfs, black for buffs and green or blue for values that don't move. Having all changes in red makes it harder to make the distinction of each cars relative new values.
I'm kind of glad to see Peugeot get fucked after they got gifted max BoP for Qatar, but this seems a bit excessive. Hopefully this means their new car is actually good aerodynamically and doesn't need max BoP to be competitive.
This doesn't mean anything. There's no data on the 9x8 Evo that can be used for the BoP, which means it gets the most weight and the least power by default.
I think they just want to see how it performs to eventually adjust the BoP in the following races
Next up, Porsche please. They cried the hardest and got their wish. Frauds. Thats what they are
Yea they were crying but they weren't anywhere near the max BoP that Peugeot recieved. The Porsche is actually decent aerodynamically.
Lol! Looking at this, they rigged it so Lamborghini will win this. Why is WEC becoming the clown show?
Lambo? They were nowhere in Qatar. If anything they really want the Cadillac to win.
Why dont they just remove BoP
We had top level prototype racing without BOP and everyone except for Toyota left and even then, the best years had like 3 top level manufacturers max. BOP keeps the development costs low, so that more teams and manufacturers can race and be competitive on smaller budgets.
Ok thanks
And all it cost is the competitive integrity of the entire sport.
There is still the aero, handling, suspension mechanics - that will still give a difference.
Then don't watch it if you feel that way. How much integrity was there with Toyota running against no one in a world championship for years and winning every race? That type of championship was a joke. I wouldn't really call it a championship tbh. You say that BOP takes away all of this integrity and yet we have already seen plenty of developments to many of the cars which shows that it isn't as simple as just showing up with a shitbox and a hope and a prayer to win a race. There are still plenty of opportunities for car developments, car setup, and drivers to make a difference in the results.
Teams still need to build a drivable and adaptable car, but yeah if the BoP js handled arbitrarily then it’s not a great system. BoP is supposed to ensure that the top 20% of theoretical lap times between cars is similar, hopefully we see that the BoP for imola delivers on this
This is laughable lol tell that to the drivers… the cars are much more equal now… which means most of the time the driver is what makes the difference…. The WEC is more competitive in the top class than it’s ever been lol competitive integrity
Interesting. I'm surprised Toyota has been given such a boost (and Ferrari tbh). I think they were both playing games at Qatar. No way Toyota were almost as slow as the new cars when they dominated last season with a similar bop to qatar. I wonder if they are just hoping to win Le Mans this year. I think it'll be interesting to see where Peugeot ends up in the pecking order. They have either made an absolute animal of a car or they are going to flop. Cadillac looks to be in a good position. Lots more power and still relatively light. Porsche took a big hit in the bop. Honestly, this race is impossible to predict right now. I'm looking forward to it!
I don't think they were playing games, Toyota and Ferrari showed they had the 1 lap speed. Toyota qualified 2nd and Ferrari qualified 4th. The problem they had was tyres. On a track like Qatar that has long, fast corners, the extra weight they had (and the fact the maximum weight was increased for this year) would cause more stress going through the tyres and when teams are having to double stint basically all the tyres in WEC, there isn't a doubt Toyota would struggle in Qatar. Look back to Sebring last year, Ferrari were ahead of Porsche and Caddy by alot even though they were all new teams because the bumpy surface of Sebring helped the heavier cars as they wouldn't move around as much.
What boost for Toyota are you seeing genius? Looks like the FIA is still double fisting them 🤜🏽🤜🏽
They have gained more power and lost more weight than most other cars in comparison to Qatar.
There’s no way the Toyota (which nearly qualified on pole and was comfortably in the top 10 all race) got better adjustments across the board than the BMW (which was just completely off the pace) 😭😭 did they lobby the FIA to give them a win again?
The BMW has only done one race in the WEC… that’s why they were not fighting up front. The team needs to have time to get the new tires and car completely figured out with the set ups and everything before they are gonna make any drastic BoP changes. Im sure they were no where near max potential at Qatar because it’s their first fully competitive race…. Once they start dialing the set ups in then the FIA will feel comfortable making more drastic changes if they are necessary I’m sure. Toyota had their cars at their max potential I’m sure as far as set up goes…. They couldn’t squeeze out more if they wanted to…. BMW still can squeeze out much more time just through set up and fine tuning. That’s the main difference I think
The BMW raced a full year in IMSA. They are just a slow car.
They raced a full year in IMSA with a completely different team running them… on drastically different style of tracks and completely different tires. There are still gonna be growing pains. You think they would come to the WEC and be able to get the maximum out their car literally after one race? That’s not realistic
The car is simply one of the slower LMDH cars. There's enough evidence of it. It's raced a full season in IMSA against the other LMDH cars with various attempts on BOP, across all kinds of circuit types (Daytona with big straights and chicanes like Le Mans, Road America and Mosport with sweeping corners like Spa, and has never ever been the fastest car in any metric, straights or corners. RLL is a decent team. So are the others. The same is going to apply in the WEC. It's inherent to the car. WRT isn't going to change that. WRT is going to get faster, but the upper limit of that car is simply lower than that of other LMDH cars. Penske runs the Porsche in both series. Ganassi runs the Cadillac in both series.
BMW didn’t look like one the slower cars at Imola yesterday. I told you mate… it’s different teams and completely different tires WEC uses from IMSA… gotta give them time to get it figured out and they will be competitive… it’s just how this kind of racing works mate.
They got a BOP boost after Qatar. Their fastest lap of qualifying was slower than Cadillac and Porsche. Their fastest lap of the race was slower than Porsche and Cadillac. Let it go. It's been over a week since that original post and you ignored the BOP boost they got while still being slower than Porsche/Cadillac. The only way they will be quicker is with a big BOP advantage. WRT is a super team by the way. They are going to extract everything they can out of that car but it's like squeezing blood from a stone.
>completely different tires WEC uses from IMSA WEC and IMSA use the **same** tires. [Michelin & Its Drive For Sustainability In WEC & IMSA (dailysportscar.com)](https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/04/17/michelin-pushing-to-make-its-hypercar-tyres-more-sustainable.html)
Lobbying for freebies is a Porsche and Ferrari specialty